User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 04 02

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[17:00]	Kitto Flora:	Right
[17:00]	Ardy Lay:	Drop into a crowd but some don't show up for a while.
[17:00]	Kitto Flora:	Takes awhile for the info to reach your viewer
[17:00]	Zian Dragovar gave you Bugger List.
[17:00]	Kitto Flora:	Common problem
[17:00]	Charlette Proto:	some seem to be invisible (completely) for quite a long time
[17:00]	Opensource Obscure:	do i appear naked? ("only in second life!")
[17:01]	Kitto Flora:	How about for a long time?
[17:01]	Opensource Obscure:	hello Andrew
[17:01]	Ardy Lay:	And some, you only see their attachments.
[17:01]	Charlette Proto:	yep I knoe, I waste my life in a welcome area so we get a lot of bumping as a result
[17:01]	Andrew Linden:	hello everyone
[17:01]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	hello
[17:01]	Kitto Flora:	Couple days back I found an 'av' floating in mid air, showed on Map, showed up as a no name AV on a scanner - but nothing visible there at all
[17:01]	Morgaine Dinova waves
[17:01]	Kitto Flora:	Hi Andrew
[17:02]	Charlette Proto:	hi Andrew - you rencer in nanoseconds, but never look like the rez finished OK
[17:02]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, I haven't gone to that region to troubleshoot it.
[17:02]	Andrew Linden:	And I can't do it tonight -- gotta run somewhere right after this.
[17:02]	Kitto Flora:	Problems were still there yesterday
[17:02]	Xaria Mistwallow:	friendly greetings to all! =)
[17:03]	Andrew Linden:	Charlette, that is because I use an old and lousy texture for my outfit.
[17:03]	Andrew Linden:	It doesn't look anywhere close to OK until the full resolution has been streamed, and then it still has some blury edges.
[17:03]	Charlette Proto:	I gather that Andrew, you are a vintage avatar
[17:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	Kitto: my own av's been in limbo too, the viewer thinking I'm in one zone (at negative x and z axes), while people tell me I'm in another zone. It happened on handover.
[17:04]	Charlette Proto:	on the other hand I'm a bit of a prim whore (Mature here)
[17:04]	Ardy Lay:	There is an "object" in Lusk that I can only detect by colliding with it. Finding it isn't a problem though. I't in the middle of the main walkway.
[17:04]	Kitto Flora:	Yes there are as usual - bad/strange things on sim bounday crossing
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	Whenever there is a collision ghost it is one of three things:
[17:05]	Kitto Flora:	Ardy - thats a standard ghost. Get the sim rebooted
[17:05]	Ardy Lay:	I think there is a JIRA for this sort of thing. Support has been notified.
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	(1) there is a large sculpty nearby that doesn't look anything like its collision shape
[17:05]	Charlette Proto:	yep nice problem that 'simlines' Soft is working on that (suppose many others too)
[17:05]	Morgaine Dinova waves at Simon
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	(2) there is a phantom object that should be (I've seen this happen on spinning lazers on a dance floor)
[17:05]	Simon Linden:	Hi everyone
[17:05]	Charlette Proto:	yep the simline JIRA is vintage too
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	(3) there is a mismatch between the terrain collision shape and its appearance
[17:06]	Charlette Proto:	hi Simon
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	ok (4) if there is a real ghost object then it should go away on reboot
[17:06]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	"ghosted prims" don't happen anymore?
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	if not, the it is one of the first three
[17:06]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	oh
[17:07]	Kitto Flora:	You can find 4) with a scanner. they show up
[17:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	When could (3) happen?
[17:07]	Ardy Lay:	It seems to be number 4.
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	(3) can happen near extreme slopes, near a cliff or a deep ditch
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	the reason for (3) is that we send the terrain with lossy data compression
[17:08]	Morgaine Dinova:	Ouch
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	but (3) is always down near the terrain
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	it might show up as a hidden ridge that sticks up through a road or train track
[17:08]	Ardy Lay:	This is 50 or 60 meters up.
[17:08]	Kitto Flora:	I've had trains hit type 3). Bit of sandpaper fixes it.
[17:08]	Charlette Proto:	is the lossy data compression the reason for drifts on sims?
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	no the lossy compression wouldn't cause "drift" (I assume you mean object drift)
[17:09]	Charlette Proto:	yes
[17:09]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I wanted to ask about that actually
[17:09]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1170
[17:09]	Charlette Proto:	missaligned floor sections etc
[17:09]	Morgaine Dinova:	Why is terrain sent lossy? And why isn't terrain cached near-permanently, given that it almost never changes and we're regularly going to the same sims?
[17:09]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	(prim drift)
[17:09]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody. for the last 5 minutes i have been trying to get here
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	Ah yes, Thickbrick I think you commented on a jira bug I own about object drift
[17:10]	Kitto Flora:	Be glad it wasnt 10AM today
[17:10]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	yes, I showed my result to poppy dn soft on IRC, and they sid I should come here
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	Morgaine, the reason for the lossy compression is very historical. I'll get to it if I can. Remind me when we have a lull
[17:10]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hehe, kk
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	SVC-1170...
[17:10]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	that it looks identical to what Simon fixed in SVC-94
[17:11]	Rex Cronon:	testing
[17:11]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	tested?
[17:11]	Ardy Lay:	Hehe
[17:11]	Rex Cronon:	sometimes i loose connection:(
[17:11]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Rex
[17:12]	Ardy Lay:	Ping!
[17:12]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[17:12]	Rex Cronon:	lol. ping secondlife.com
[17:12]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	my question caused Andrew to faint?
[17:12]	Charlette Proto:	ping times have been horrid lately - some people reporting 20k plus
[17:12]	Kitto Flora:	He's looking at other window
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	No, I was trying to read the jira's.
[17:13]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	heh
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	I accidentally navigated to SVC-97
[17:13]	Ardy Lay:	"Your ICMP ECHO request was discarded at our perimeter router due to that protocol being low in the interest list."
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	and SVC-94 has lots of comments
[17:13]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I can post a longer log if that'll help
[17:14]	Kitto Flora:	You have long ping? This morning SL MG and SL website vanished for near an hour.
[17:14]	Morgaine Dinova:	Is there a reason for the general slowdown?
[17:14]	Morgaine Dinova:	Off-peak.
[17:14]	Rex Cronon:	at 10 am kitto?
[17:14]	Kitto Flora:	Around then Rex
[17:15]	Kitto Flora:	Not a word about it on Grid Status
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	Ok thickbrick your question is exactly?
[17:15]	Ardy Lay:	I see a fair amount of BGP4 shuffling going on in the backbones.
[17:15]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	does what I was seeing make sense as an expected behavior or is it a bug?
[17:16]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	becuase I think it explans why my floors are changing position
[17:16]	Charlette Proto:	yes what is happening with Grid Status, the whole grid has 46k users, nobody can TP or login and nothing on the
[17:16]	Charlette Proto:	let me see, I've got what
[17:16]	Charlette Proto:	I've got what - maybe 15 seconds
[17:16]	Charlette Proto:	before your AR reports get answered
[17:16]	Charlette Proto:	by your pressious game gods
[17:16]	Andrew Linden:	Thickbrick, I suspect what is going on is that your SL client is taking a quaternion and converting to game-dev Euler angles with inaccuracies.
[17:17]	Charlette Proto:	sry that was an accidental gesture
[17:17]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	hmm, the quaternions themselves are changing too there
[17:17]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I think...
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	But that is just a guess. The XYZ rotation angles are commonly known as "Euler angles" but they are the game-dev interpretation thereof (don't consult your local college physics textbook for reference)
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm...
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	I probably need to examine them in more detail.
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	Thickbrick, are you near the objects when editing them?
[17:18]	Charlette Proto:	yep euler conversion was never very accurate
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	Or is your avatar far away (editing distant objects)
[17:18]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	yes, not farther than 10 meters
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... I wouldn't expect the server to be sending you inaccurate information then.
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	Is this for a multi-prim object?
[17:20]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	yes, a relatively big one
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	Ah. This must be caused by some quantization that is being done on the child prim rotations. That would be my guess.
[17:20]	Xaria Mistwallow:	my friend had earlier today problems with attaching her outfits etc, and mysefl I could not place my things on the floor. We have a feeling the asset server had some issues (again)=P
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	I'd be interested in getting my hands on that object so I could look into it further.
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	Perhaps you could give me a landmark and I can come by and take a copy for examination.
[17:21]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	i'm nore sure my changes were reporting the percision correctly, since it always showd as 32
[17:21]	Simon Linden:	yes, we had some database problems earlier, so that was probably the issue
[17:21]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I think there's a URL in the jira
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	Ok thanks Thickbrick.
[17:21]	Kitto Flora:	Simon: That around 10AM?
[17:22]	Xaria Mistwallow:	ill tell her, i could add anything i wanted but not place anything, she couldnt do anything at all
[17:22]	Simon Linden:	Kitto -yes, a few minutes after 10:00
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	Yes Kitto, I think it was around that time.
[17:22]	Xaria Mistwallow:	so she looked like a discormed avi, so i took my things off aswell. if she had to look like that, then ill do the same =)
[17:22]	Charlette Proto:	Xira today has been a very fakey day on the Grid
[17:23]	Kitto Flora:	That looked like network problems internal to SL. Both the MG and the websites vanished
[17:23]	Kitto Flora:	But one could ping them
[17:23]	Thickbrick Sleaford gave you a build that is displaying rotation-drifting (SVC-1170).
[17:23]	Charlette Proto:	sounds like DNS server probs
[17:23]	Kitto Flora:	Possibly
[17:24]	Kitto Flora:	web pages came up with '500' error
[17:24]	Charlette Proto:	why is the cube on the table showing such a low TD when this is not a true figure at all?
[17:24]	Ardy Lay:	Data unavailable
[17:24]	Xaria Mistwallow:	think not by country then, because we both from the same country. so that should not be the problem.
[17:25]	Ardy Lay:	I think the cube is showing sags
[17:25]	Kitto Flora:	Because what it shows was at 17:11:37
[17:25]	Kitto Flora:	14 mins ago
[17:25]	Charlette Proto:	ah at the time of rez
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	Morgaine, the lossy compression for land was because we were going to use the same scheme to send a moving water layer, and other things.
[17:25]	Kitto Flora:	No. at the time of the event
[17:25]	Charlette Proto:	but was the TD really so low
[17:25]	Kitto Flora:	^es
[17:25]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh, I see
[17:25]	Kitto Flora:	Yes
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	Our early expectations was that we would be sending lots of updates to the layers, land and water.
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	But we removed the water because it was too expensive, and the compression scheme remained for the land.
[17:26]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hehe
[17:26]	Rex Cronon:	btw, is almost impossible to test scripts that do things at specific intervals:(
[17:26]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well land needs major revamp, the quality is out of step with water now, looks quite distressing at HD.
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	Meanwhile, the land data takes up about the same data as one 256x265 texture.
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	We should switch over to a texture pipeline for it.
[17:27]	Opensource Obscure:	oohh
[17:27]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	it would be really nice if land was rendered a lot farther than the draw distance
[17:27]	Kitto Flora:	Was there an early idea to allow different water heights?
[17:27]	Ardy Lay:	I don't know why people get so hung up on time variances in LSL execution. It is a state-transition enabled language.
[17:27]	Tegg Bode:	Yes the missing sims of water looks pretty sad
[17:27]	Morgaine Dinova:	I can gaze at water for hours. I you make terrain of equal quality, SL would be transfrormed :-))))))
[17:27]	Andrew Linden:	The early idea was that the regular water level would be dynamic. Different region water heights was added later.
[17:28]	Kitto Flora:	Ardy: Because it wrecks transportation vehicles
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	We've kicked around the idea of using some more realistic water simulations to allow ponds and streams, but that was back when we were planning on making water.
[17:28]	Kitto Flora:	Water dynamic? As in tides?
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	er... I mean planned on making weather.
[17:28]	Morgaine Dinova:	Ah
[17:28]	Rex Cronon:	when i have a timer that i exped to execute is really not ehlpfull when i can get an additional 1sec of mre of dellay
[17:28]	Morgaine Dinova:	No weather thanks, I get enough of that here in UK :-)))
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	Dynamic as in, you could poke it and it would wave, and the waves would propagate into the next region
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	and if you came back a while later it might still be waving
[17:29]	Kitto Flora:	OH That dynamic
[17:29]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	that sounds really cool
[17:29]	Ardy Lay:	Particle physics simulation....
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	someday
[17:29]	Tegg Bode:	Tides would be nice with perhaps a sea level flucation +-1m depending on wind/moon , but probably a bit overkill ㋡
[17:29]	Morgaine Dinova:	I used to swim a lot, just to see the wake. Pity that's gone.
[17:29]	Ardy Lay:	That would be .... nice to see but computationaly distressing. :-)
[17:29]	Xaria Mistwallow:	not only overkill, laggy aswell
[17:30]	Xaria Mistwallow:	there is more to calculate then, so lagg will rise aswell
[17:30]	Kitto Flora:	SL is kinda boring with the fixed water height all over a region. And expensive if one 'prims around the restriction'
[17:30]	Tegg Bode:	tryue, but nice to see boats rocking or raising an lowering
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	Not necessarily too expensive.
[17:31]	Andrew Linden:	You can make some cheap fluid simulations that look pretty realistic but aren't quite right.
[17:31]	Morgaine Dinova:	That's what games programming is all about, cheating to be just convincing enough :-)
[17:31]	Tegg Bode:	Yeah I had land in a sim where the simseach end had higher and lower water heights with a creek running throgh, it didn't look any good unless you added prim waterfalls
[17:32]	Xaria Mistwallow:	didnt SL start that way? cheap and not quite right? think it is a good way to start on. always a way to update it is my guess
[17:32]	Xaria Mistwallow:	or is this not right?
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	yes, and I think the land compression scheme that still haunts us is evidence of the first question
[17:33]	Tegg Bode:	So being able to tilt the water table, say 5 degrees might be handy to get a stream flowing
[17:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	Not sure you really want water flowing.
[17:33]	Rex Cronon:	wouldn't water be better if it was one body(or more):)
[17:34]	Tegg Bode:	well, water flowing looks better than a 2m change of water table at each end of the sim ㋡
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	Flowing water could be done client-side, where the simulator specifies the basics of the fluid sinks and sources.
[17:34]	Xaria Mistwallow:	i do however say, the raise, water lvl thing per sim, might be a good idea. else people will be willing everything with prims to get the right idea. and many prims take too much, 1 big mega prim already causes lagg, i really dont want to find out what it will do with a moving texture that is that big!
[17:34]	Kitto Flora:	Could windlight do flowing water?
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	but that is really a blue-sky wishful thinking feature
[17:35]	Tegg Bode:	well the wter wouldn't be flowing, but ti would give a better illusion of it if it could be angled a bit
[17:35]	Rex Cronon:	right now is kind of weird to see water filling your boat
[17:35]	Morgaine Dinova:	Heh
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	yeah
[17:36]	Xaria Mistwallow:	i noticed the same yeah, that might be one fo the first things to fix
[17:36]	Kitto Flora:	Reminds you to bail a bit
[17:36]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well that goes back to non-penetration. If you solve that for boats, you've probably got it solved for avies :-)
[17:36]	Xaria Mistwallow:	add some option that 'hardens' the boat so water will 'glide' under it instead of going straight trough
[17:36]	Rex Cronon:	really, can avavatars penetrate one another?
[17:36]	Ardy Lay:	An "invisiprim" in the boat to hide the water almost works.
[17:37]	Morgaine Dinova:	No, but their attachements can, looks terrible
[17:37]	Kitto Flora:	Ardy: Thats the most likely sucessful method
[17:37]	Rex Cronon:	soon invisiprim will be absolete:(
[17:37]	Xaria Mistwallow:	that 'harden' could also be used for peopel that love to use guns, then they can make their skybox (or what ever they want) and harden it so nothing will go trough
[17:37]	Kitto Flora:	A prim texture that hides water texture but not prim surface beneath
[17:37]	Xaria Mistwallow:	might be a solution
[17:38]	Kitto Flora:	Is theres a '-water' texture?
[17:38]	Xaria Mistwallow:	getting the solution to work is actually a second
[17:38]	Kitto Flora:	Theres a '-av' texture
[17:38]	Andrew Linden:	The water surface is textured, yes.
[17:38]	Xaria Mistwallow:	you can use any texture for the water actually, i tried
[17:38]	Xaria Mistwallow:	it automaticly multiplies it
[17:39]	Morgaine Dinova:	It could actually be done properly, without cheating --- deforming the water surface to fit the hull.
[17:39]	Xaria Mistwallow:	but still, only the one that actually made the idea with windlight will be able to see it
[17:39]	Kitto Flora:	Morgaine: That sounds expensive
[17:39]	Kitto Flora:	(computationally expensive)
[17:39]	Xaria Mistwallow:	I believe, Blue Linden told me something about this yesterday
[17:40]	Xaria Mistwallow:	either him or another Linden
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	About what? Deforming the water to be under the boat?
[17:40]	Morgaine Dinova:	Kitto: not really --- remember that the surface is already computed, so all you need is the surface intrersection.
[17:40]	Kitto Flora:	And a depth
[17:40]	Kitto Flora:	and a shape
[17:40]	Xaria Mistwallow:	well we were discussing the same problem with textures and windlight
[17:41]	Morgaine Dinova:	The shape is already known --- it's that of the boat
[17:41]	Xaria Mistwallow:	so that specific subject didnt came to mind at that mind
[17:41]	Morgaine Dinova:	Just concave, insted of convex
[17:41]	Rex Cronon:	actually u only need cut a hole in the watre:)
[17:41]	Kitto Flora:	the viewer had to applay that as a deformation of the otherwise dead-flat water
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	You can have an arbitrary shaped water vehicle. In order to get the water to flow like real water you need a decent fluid simulation.
[17:42]	Xaria Mistwallow:	true, but that should be possible with this engine
[17:42]	Xaria Mistwallow:	only bad side is, there need to be done alot to get it installed
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	So you could special code something for boat-shaped objects, but it would look bad for anything else.
[17:42]	Saijanai Dagger:	Hi, I'm a bot!
[17:43]	Xaria Mistwallow:	it most likely wont be cheap either
[17:43]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	heh
[17:43]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, in any case there are dozens of projects I'd want to get done first.
[17:43]	Kitto Flora wants him to do em too
[17:43]	Xaria Mistwallow:	true, i do believe this actually can wait another year
[17:43]	Xaria Mistwallow:	it isnt essential
[17:43]	Morgaine Dinova:	Anyway, water looks nice. Terrain!!!!!
[17:44]	Andrew Linden:	currently I'm trying to figure out why this particular asset crashes a simulator
[17:44]	Xaria Mistwallow:	I do have a request on the sky, more specific, space
[17:44]	Andrew Linden:	We have an HTTP-texture project underway -- for revamping the texture download path for SL images
[17:44]	Rex Cronon:	what asset?
[17:44]	Andrew Linden:	if we do any image-based terrain modifications they would start after that project is complete
[17:45]	Xaria Mistwallow:	its now just plain black, isnt there a possibility to add a starry sky? simular to the water?
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	some asset crashes the simulator. I've got a copy for testing.
[17:45]	Xaria Mistwallow:	it could produce alot of nice effects
[17:45]	Kitto Flora:	Whats the asset that crashes a sim?
[17:45]	Morgaine Dinova:	Andrew: good point, HTTP-texture sounds ideal for terrain
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	I could give you a copy, but then I'd have to ban you.
[17:45]	Morgaine Dinova:	HAHAHAHA
[17:45]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	lol
[17:45]	Rex Cronon:	lol
[17:45]	Kitto Flora:	I dont want it!
[17:45]	Xaria Mistwallow:	<<<hihi>>>
[17:45]	Kitto Flora:	I mean what kinda thing is it?
[17:46]	Andrew Linden:	Here, I'll show you the object... one moment.
[17:46]	Andrew Linden:	;-) jk
[17:46]	Morgaine Dinova runs
[17:46]	Kitto Flora has enough with SL crashing on its own!
[17:46]	Saijanai Kuhn:	Someone once gave me a prim that if you bug-reported it would crash the sim
[17:46]	Rex Cronon:	even if we promisse to use it only on crashme:)
[17:46]	Andrew Linden:	I don't believe that Saijani, but it is a funny thought.
[17:46]	Ardy Lay:	Was it an accidental creation or was crashing a sim it's designed purpose?
[17:46]	Morgaine Dinova:	Does crashme still exist?
[17:46]	Andrew Linden:	This was an accidental creation.
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	I still haven't figured out exactly what is going wrong
[17:47]	Saijanai Kuhn:	is truth. It would corrupt the name buffer and any standard SL client action would cause a crash. Maybe it was client, not server
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	It appears that we cannot properly parse it, but I don't know why yet.
[17:47]	Xaria Mistwallow:	i rather have it crash like that so it automaticly gets disabled so to speak, then getting lagg untill the G-Team arrives (which can take some time since there is a lot going on in SL)
[17:47]	Kitto Flora:	Do you ge ta useable stack trace?
[17:47]	Rex Cronon:	wow. crash me has crashed for good:(
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	Ah ok Saijani, I think I believe you. That doesn't sound so far fetched.
[17:48]	Ardy Lay:	I have a sound that crashes SOME viewers. It's been reported and Qarl Linden requested a copy from me.
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	yes Kitto, but it appears that the parsed data is garbage. I'm currently trying to figure out why
[17:48]	Saijanai Kuhn:	yeah I just remember restarting the client. Not being kicked from the server. Either was was funny. I want to report a bug. Crash
[17:48]	Xaria Mistwallow:	my viewer crashes plainly when i logout
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	I'll fix the crash bug sure, but the real source of the problem is still a mystery.
[17:48]	Xaria Mistwallow:	doesnt do it always, but about 85% of the time
[17:49]	Xaria Mistwallow:	plain crash, nothing wrong, it just crashes :p
[17:49]	Xaria Mistwallow:	i directly start it back up, no problem
[17:49]	Kitto Flora:	mystery like: how did the asset get into that state in the first place?
[17:49]	Xaria Mistwallow:	i rather think its Vista playing around though
[17:49]	Andrew Linden:	I hear there are some major stability improvements for the viewer in the HTTP-download project.
[17:49]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	wow, that was weird, I tried to drag the beachball and it shot into space
[17:49]	Saijanai Kuhn:	it was the bug that caused you guys to redo the name/description handling in the prims
[17:50]	Rex Cronon:	somtimes the old orbit scripts can do strange things to scripts
[17:50]	Saijanai Kuhn:	rename the item in a tight loop with an infinite append to the string and it just overflows the buffer
[17:51]	Saijanai Kuhn:	why we no longer have 32K descriptions
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	Does that still work Saijanai?
[17:51]	Saijanai Kuhn:	not for a year I think
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	ok good
[17:51]	Saijanai Kuhn:	I wouldn't say it out loud if it did. Warkirby showed the bug to me and he was super paranoid about it
[17:52]	Ardy Lay:	(al) Beach Ball - seeks water level at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/128/25/29
[17:52]	Xaria Mistwallow:	i do seem to have problems with plain door scripts, they seem to be messed up during one of the last 2 or 3 updates for SL (complete viewer updates)
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	Saijanai, for a bot you're reading pretty high on my Turingmeter
[17:52]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	sorry about that ardy
[17:52]	Ardy Lay:	That's okay
[17:52]	Rex Cronon:	there r 2 of the
[17:52]	Saijanai Kuhn:	heh. Dagger was a bot. enus doesn't have appearance stuff enabled yet
[17:53]	Xaria Mistwallow:	they dont seem to be able to open doors as they should, and every door goes haywire as soon as you turn a building around
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	Oh right.
[17:53]	Saijanai Dagger:	Hi, I'm a bot!
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	Ah there he is.
[17:53]	Saijanai Kuhn:	and my console gets spammed by every unhandled packet
[17:53]	Kitto Flora:	Do we serve his kind here?
[17:53]	Xaria Mistwallow:	that made him poof i think :p
[17:53]	Simon Linden:	I think they are supposed to serve us
[17:54]	Saijanai Kuhn:	but he seems to log out now. For a while he would stick around until the server noticed he was idling
[17:54]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	the sim serves all
[17:54]	Kitto Flora:	No one from Mos Eisley here I guess
[17:55]	Ardy Lay:	Was I supposed to make a sauce joke?
[17:55]	Xaria Mistwallow:	anyways, the door script issue might be a thing to look at, it is just a freebie, but putting it on mono doesnt help either. so there might be something up with that
[17:55]	Xaria Mistwallow:	lil mos? lol. thats a big lag place :)
[17:55]	Andrew Linden:	I'm going to be on vacation April 14 and 16. Simon will probably be able to attend though.
[17:55]	Xaria Mistwallow:	i dont go there for months now
[17:55]	Kitto Flora:	Where you going?
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	Motorcycle trip somewhere, I think.
[17:56]	Xaria Mistwallow:	when I will get on my main account i will send Simon the script I was talking about along with one of the buildings that it is attached to
[17:56]	Kitto Flora:	Hells Angles rolls :)
[17:56]	Xaria Mistwallow:	maybe LL find something wrong with it
[17:56]	Ardy Lay:	Please be careful
[17:56]	Morgaine Dinova:	Careful with the zone crossings Andrew :-)
[17:57]	Andrew Linden:	I've got to run shortly after this meeting. Any last minute issues or questions?
[17:57]	Kitto Flora:	Door scripts are numerous, and some are quite poor.
[17:57]	Opensource Obscure:	ciao all
[17:57]	Saijanai Kuhn:	laters
[17:58]	Rex Cronon:	tc
[17:58]	Xaria Mistwallow:	well they always did their work propperly, untill 1.19 i believe
[17:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	Have a good trip Andrew :-)
[17:58]	Ardy Lay:	Trama surgeons around here are calling motorcyclists "organ donors". It's rather morbid but backed up by recent events.
[17:58]	Saijanai Kuhn:	oh, and enus has set up an inworld discussion group for pyogp so if anyone wants to chat python bots, feel free to join
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	I'll be around next week, but not the week after that.
[17:58]	Kitto Flora:	Ones I have had no problem with MONO, and even run on Open Grid
[17:58]	Kitto Flora:	OpenSim
[17:58]	Charlette Proto:	is the rollout of 1.26 going to happen on time?
[17:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	Ah yeah, wrong week :-)
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, do you know the status of server-1.26?
[17:59]	Xaria Mistwallow:	its on the blog
[17:59]	Ardy Lay:	Prospero told somebody that "on time" means "When it's ready." :-)
[17:59]	Simon Linden:	Saijanai - what's the time/place for that?
[17:59]	Xaria Mistwallow:	http://status.secondlifegrid.net/
[17:59]	Xaria Mistwallow:	i had it open still :p
[17:59]	Saijanai Kuhn:	its just an inworld group pyogp
[17:59]	Xaria Mistwallow:	you can read all such things there
[17:59]	Charlette Proto:	the grid status is just a joke lately so i asked
[17:59]	Saijanai Kuhn:	his office hours are fridays at 9:30 AM SLT
[17:59]	Simon Linden:	It's due to roll out next week, starting Tuesday, assuming we don't find any problems before then
[17:59]	Andrew Linden:	Prospero is jaded after server-1.25's delays
[18:00]	Kitto Flora:	Ominously, preview was closed - 3 hours back
[18:00]	Saijanai Kuhn:	I called it the monty python credits rollout
[18:00]	Xaria Mistwallow:	I seen him just before i arrived here
[18:00]	Xaria Mistwallow:	he seemed very very busy as usually
[18:00]	Xaria Mistwallow:	i have a feeling the poor guy is working his behind off to get everything finished on time
[18:00]	Saijanai Kuhn:	the people responsible for sacking the rollback have just been sacked. At great expense we're bringing something entirely different
[18:01]	Saijanai Kuhn:	14 announcements for 1.25
[18:01]	Xaria Mistwallow:	have a great holiday Andrew!
[18:01]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	lol
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	See you all later.