User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 04 09

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[17:01]	Jane Fossett gave you Jane Fosset and Sculpted Sailing buoy quandries.
[17:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	Did they ever make it on the radio?
[17:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Back
[17:01]	Moon Metty:	lol
[17:02]	xstorm Radek:	hi every one :-)
[17:02]	Morgaine Dinova:	Wow, crowded today
[17:02]	Yuu Nakamichi:	oops :)
[17:02]	Moon Metty:	hi andrew :D
[17:02]	Chaos Mandelbrot:	Hi Yuu
[17:02]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Andrew, Simon + everyone :-)
[17:03]	Moon Metty:	are you feeling better?
[17:03]	xstorm Radek:	hi hi
[17:03]	Saijanai Kuhn:	to toot my own horn, this is the GUI I'm working up for ENus' quality assurance test client
[17:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	What happens in London?
[17:03]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, I'm back in the office today (on the mend from my cold).
[17:03]	Moon Metty:	alrighty
[17:03]	Simon Linden:	Hello all
[17:03]	Jane Fossett:	hiya
[17:03]	Krull Aeon:	Hello all :)
[17:04]	Patty1 Rosca:	hope im not sitting on anyone
[17:04]	Saijanai Kuhn:	can run multiple bots from the same client script, to test packet injection/reception avie control
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	Ok so looks like the pilot roll of server-1.26 is going to stick today
[17:04]	Saijanai Kuhn:	should make prototyping new interfaces for new packets MUCH easier
[17:04]	Moon Metty:	Vek told is the crashrate is very much lower
[17:04]	xstorm Radek:	i have seen some small glitches
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	It was deployed yesterday, then pulled for bug SVC-4086 or SVC-4087, I think
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	I don't believe the low crash rate rumor.
[17:05]	Moon Metty:	oh?
[17:05]	xstorm Radek:	the ghost island is still out there moving around
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	Someone showed me a graph that was plummeting to about 50% of what it was
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	however... the pilot roll was only out to about 500 regions
[17:06]	Arawn Spitteler:	Sounds like CG
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	our of 32k or so
[17:06]	xstorm Radek:	any one like a photo of it ?
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	so, unless the low crash rate has something to do with the "central servers" then I think there is a glitch in the crash report stats
[17:06]	xstorm Radek:	its starting to make sim owners a little mad
[17:06]	Moon Metty:	he said the VFS (virtual file system) was improved
[17:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	LOL
[17:07]	xstorm Radek:	i have been telling them its just a ghost error
[17:07]	Arawn Spitteler:	Floating Island as in Region?
[17:07]	Krull Aeon:	lol
[17:07]	Patty1 Rosca:	hi jrull and morg
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, I'm expecting a true decrease in the crash rate, however I don't think the early stats are correct.
[17:07]	xstorm Radek:	yes
[17:07]	Moon Metty:	hehe ok
[17:07]	Simon Linden:	There's been only 2 crashes in the new regions since they all came up - some more had problems starting, but it's still too small of a sample to get good stats
[17:07]	xstorm Radek:	a full island
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	What is this floating ghost island you speak of?
[17:07]	Krull Aeon:	Hi Josi :)
[17:07]	Moon Metty:	we will find out!
[17:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	I've never dumped a wabbit on the floor before
[17:07]	Krull Aeon:	lol
[17:07]	xstorm Radek:	and its a mainland one
[17:07]	Simon Linden:	Only 2 is good, however, as opposed to a bigger number :)
[17:07]	Moon Metty:	yes, ok Simon
[17:08]	xstorm Radek:	hold on i will get the pics
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	This region (Denby) appears to be on the pilot roll list. It is always on the latest simulator when these go out.
[17:08]	xstorm Radek gave you Sprite 6.
[17:09]	xstorm Radek:	its that red off line island
[17:09]	Simon Linden:	I think most of the linden land is on the pilot rolls
[17:09]	xstorm Radek:	its been moving all around the grid
[17:09]	xstorm Radek:	i have even been on it
[17:09]	Arawn Spitteler:	Has it a name?
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	Ah you mean one region is always showing up as "red" on the map?
[17:09]	xstorm Radek:	yes
[17:10]	Charlette Proto:	I wouldn'r expect 1.26 stops avies from excessive pushes like Uppercut or Crazy sideways step?
[17:10]	xstorm Radek:	it moves just about every day
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	That must be some new map problem.
[17:10]	xstorm Radek:	i will get the name
[17:10]	xstorm Radek:	it says mainland
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	It isn't alwasy the same region name is it?
[17:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Shaun
[17:11]	Simon Linden:	Wow, we're a pretty good tower-of-green-dots on the map :)
[17:11]	Moon Metty:	heehee
[17:11]	Krull Aeon:	lol
[17:11]	Patty1 Rosca:	*GIGGLES*:)Andrew Linden 01:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
[17:11]	Patty1 Rosca:	*GIGGLES* :)Andrew Linden 01:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
[17:11]	xstorm Radek:	the mainland is named ieyla
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	always ieyla?
[17:12]	xstorm Radek gave you leyla odd.
[17:12]	Moon Metty:	ohh you mentioned it before
[17:12]	Moon Metty:	a ghost sim
[17:12]	xstorm Radek:	yes
[17:12]	xstorm Radek:	every time
[17:12]	Patty1 Rosca:	several of them around
[17:12]	Arawn Spitteler:	None found
[17:12]	Simon Linden:	Is that Leyla or ieyla ?
[17:12]	xstorm Radek:	the date is odd too
[17:12]	xstorm Radek:	no
[17:12]	Moon Metty:	1969?
[17:12]	xstorm Radek:	ieyla
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... I can't find it on the map
[17:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	There's actually a Ghost Island
[17:13]	Krull Aeon:	A good year that was :)
[17:13]	xstorm Radek:	i even crashed when it just moved again
[17:13]	Moon Metty:	a negative unixtime ...
[17:13]	Krull Aeon:	The covenant for this land was established Dec 31st 1969 :P
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, so tell me more about this Ghost Island? It moves around the world and always shows up as red on the map?
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	Do you know where it is now on the map?
[17:14]	xstorm Radek:	not red all the time
[17:14]	Charlette Proto:	yep the covenant dates are always bad
[17:14]	Simon Linden:	It's at 770/936 now
[17:14]	xstorm Radek:	it was sea one time and land other time
[17:14]	Arawn Spitteler:	Not red all the time, if someone's been there.
[17:14]	Krull Aeon:	Ooooh a ghost island hunt :D
[17:14]	Morgaine Dinova:	This is like an adventure
[17:14]	Charlette Proto:	hehe tinies are on a roll
[17:14]	Moon Metty:	follow the black X on the map
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	near what other region?
[17:15]	xstorm Radek:	but im not the only one that has seen it
[17:15]	xstorm Radek:	it moves no clue
[17:15]	xstorm Radek:	has to be a bug
[17:15]	Krull Aeon:	Is it appearing in a triangle of other sims by any chance :P
[17:15]	xstorm Radek:	or old dirty data
[17:16]	xstorm Radek:	not funny
[17:16]	Krull Aeon:	lol
[17:16]	xstorm Radek:	they think im crazy now
[17:16]	Krull Aeon:	I kind of like the idea of a ghost sim roaming around :)
[17:16]	Morgaine Dinova:	No no, you must take these things seriously. It's not a bug. The the return of The Great Destroyer, possessing the sims. I know the signs.
[17:16]	xstorm Radek:	but i need to bug report it and i can not get to it in time
[17:16]	Simon Linden:	Ah, my mistake ... I was looking up Leyla
[17:16]	xstorm Radek:	and no way to get it to do it on command
[17:17]	xstorm Radek:	its a i
[17:17]	Simon Linden:	I don't see ieyla in our internal tool
[17:17]	Arawn Spitteler:	Leyla is between Celestial Cay and Flynn, but I can't find any Iela
[17:17]	Moon Metty:	ghost prims, ghost avatars, ghost scripts, ghost sims ... SL is officially haunted
[17:17]	Yuu Nakamichi:	leyla? layla?
[17:17]	Charlette Proto:	would I be banned if I rezz a grieffer's object here? want to see it but don't want to do it on my own parcel or a sandbox in fear of jail!
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, I don't see the region. But you say it is on the map? What is a neighboring region to 'ieyla'?
[17:17]	xstorm Radek:	i do know if we step off sim it shows the same name
[17:17]	Yuu Nakamichi:	it means moon in arabic :)
[17:18]	Moon Metty:	:)
[17:18]	Moon Metty:	sure, Yuu, blame me
[17:18]	xstorm Radek:	so i do not know what is going on
[17:18]	Yuu Nakamichi:	lol
[17:18]	Patty1 Rosca:	when you go their it shows that name
[17:18]	xstorm Radek:	yep
[17:19]	Arawn Spitteler:	I can't put numbers in, to search for a regin
[17:19]	Arawn Spitteler:	It might be fun to park a bot, and ride it about, IMming locations.
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	Charlette, you probably wouldn't be banned for that. Best to rez it in a sandbox, a no-script sandbox would be even better.
[17:20]	Charlette Proto:	tru Andrew thanks will take it to IBM6 (non script)
[17:20]	Yuu Nakamichi:	actually it means night - you're off the hook moon ;-)
[17:20]	Moon Metty:	phew
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	ok, I don't know anything about the "ghost island" region on the map -- paste a linke to a jira or forums discussion about it
[17:21]	xstorm Radek:	so how do i bug report a ghost ? that pops up like that and then is gone ?
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	I still only have a vague idea of what the real problem is
[17:21]	Charlette Proto:	the rep may be a bit hard xStorm
[17:21]	Arawn Spitteler:	If you can land on it, file an AR
[17:21]	xstorm Radek:	that may work
[17:22]	xstorm Radek:	i will have to ar the poor gov again
[17:22]	Arawn Spitteler:	If the lindens can find it, they can turn it into a promotional. Maybe it's the sim I'm going to win from the easter bunny
[17:22]	Krull Aeon:	:)
[17:22]	xstorm Radek:	*GIGGLES* :)Andrew Linden 01:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	Ok I had a topic I wanted to raise for discussion...
[17:22]	Charlette Proto:	yep I can see a new hype for the media Second Life™ ghosts
[17:22]	Arawn Spitteler:	You might be able to AR the owner "Unknown Owner
[17:23]	xstorm Radek:	ok you spend 3 weeks hunting the moving land
[17:23]	Arawn Spitteler:	You don't need our approval, Andrew, just jump in like we always do
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	the initial version of server-1.26 broke the posJump feature, but it was rolled back
[17:23]	Charlette Proto:	is there a valid Unknown Owner
[17:23]	xstorm Radek:	yes GOV Linden
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	the reference pjira item is SVC-4089 I think.
[17:24]	Simon Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4089
[17:24]	Moon Metty:	posjump is a misfeature, originally, right?
[17:24]	Krull Aeon:	AR on Gov Linden XD Too funny LOL
[17:24]	Simon Linden:	It only works due to some internal numeric overflow, so it's relying on buggy behavior
[17:24]	Andrew Linden:	So, I think the plan going forward is to break posJump which is actually a bug and not a misfeature we want to support
[17:24]	Moon Metty:	first jump to coords out of rangem, and jump back in the same instruction
[17:24]	Charlette Proto:	I AR Governor Linden a lot Krull (since Brian Linden is dead)
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	however, we're probably going to uncap the 10m limit on llSetPos() to compensate
[17:25]	Krull Aeon:	lol
[17:25]	Arawn Spitteler:	PosJump is the one that says we don't have to file an extensive list?
[17:25]	Charlette Proto:	wow so the playwood cube will be able to cross the road
[17:25]	Krull Aeon:	Can you tie PosJump back to SetPos
[17:25]	Moon Metty:	no more 10m limit?
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	One worry is that there will be some very small amount of content that relies on the 10m limit to work correctly...
[17:26]	Moon Metty:	hmmmm
[17:26]	Charlette Proto:	that would be a stupid way to code
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	someone somewhere has written a script that tries to go 12m but only goes 10m, correctly
[17:26]	Moon Metty:	some objects will get lost
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	when we uncap it the object will break
[17:26]	xstorm Radek gave you linden 3.
[17:26]	Moon Metty:	a lot of them
[17:27]	Chaos Mandelbrot:	is prepared to live with breakage
[17:27]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is there a Jira for using map to find lost objects?
[17:27]	Twisted Laws:	what is the intended new limit for set pos
[17:27]	Arawn Spitteler:	Vehicles have been known to wander
[17:27]	Charlette Proto:	I suppose move variables calculated live may go over 10m eg in boids
[17:28]	Arawn Spitteler:	Boids?
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	Dunno what the limit would be or llSetPos(). Another idea is to leave the cap on llSetPos() and add a new call that is uncapped
[17:28]	Charlette Proto:	but boids are a bit on a 'stupid' side
[17:28]	Jane Fossett:	brooklyn
[17:28]	Krull Aeon:	What if you changed the pointer for the subroutine of PosJump to point to SetPos and depricate PosJump
[17:28]	Charlette Proto:	swarms, flocks etc
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	I'm kinda curious what you all think of those two possibilities.
[17:28]	Moon Metty:	i would prefer a new call, andrew
[17:28]	Charlette Proto:	boids are the generic term for swarms and flocks
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	Personally I'd rather uncap llSetPos() and let some content break -- purely for the esthetics of a llSetPos() call that does what it says.
[17:29]	Simon Linden:	Posjump is described at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/PosJump -- it's not a function, but useful buggy behavior
[17:29]	Twisted Laws:	i think increasing llSetPos distance is better... will be much less confusing in the future.
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	whatever we do in the end... it is going to be a hassle to get it through some committee consensus
[17:30]	Krull Aeon:	Arghhh red tape Doh
[17:30]	Charlette Proto:	yep agrees, the limit makes for unnecessary repetitions of the calls to move but what about the weird puszes like Uppercut and Sidestep will they now throw avies across the sim (appear to stop at 10m atm)
[17:30]	xstorm Radek:	? why tell them ? *GIGGLES* :)Andrew Linden 01:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	that is, there will be a lot of overhead work required for a code change that is actually very simple
[17:30]	Charlette Proto:	pushes*
[17:31]	Andrew Linden:	right lots of red tape. I was thinking about trying to push a few other similar changes through at the same time
[17:31]	Morgaine Dinova:	Nobody has ever stated why there is a cap in the first place, AFAIK
[17:31]	Andrew Linden:	so I could get the committee do make some dicisions about other llFoo calls that might need to change/break
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	The reason for the cap is historical...
[17:32]	Morgaine Dinova listens
[17:32]	xstorm Radek:	the thing is many people in SL do not understand the code any way
[17:32]	Morgaine Dinova loves stories
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	Waaaaay back when we were first designing the script engine we were worried about objects that could do malicious stuff faster than we could respond
[17:32]	xstorm Radek:	they learn it from others
[17:32]	Charlette Proto:	hehe Morg the ancdote junkie
[17:33]	xstorm Radek:	so just tell them its a patch
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	that is, griefer gray goo or armies of scripted objects that bring down the entire world faster than we could respond
[17:33]	Charlette Proto:	well isn't there a point there about the Uppercut and Sidestep then
[17:33]	Jane Fossett:	LL responds so fast now...
[17:33]	xstorm Radek:	graygoo i know that nasty one
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	so we gave some script calls limitations, and added sleep penalties on other script calls if we thought them "expensive" in CPU resources
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, we now have some tools and features that keep scripts in check, but back then we didn't have them
[17:34]	Krull Aeon:	I forget if llRezObject sleeps the script or not
[17:34]	xstorm Radek:	so can the uuid for that code be turn off ?
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	no gray-goo fence, no per-parcel script limitations, no per-region script limitations -- none of that stuff
[17:34]	Moon Metty:	i just think about the number of time i was able to find my object back, thanks to the 10m limit
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	llRezObject most certainly sleeps the script, but I don't know the amount
[17:35]	Morgaine Dinova:	Throttling resource usage makes sense, but the argument about speed doesn't. If griefing control is a matter of speed, we're screwed, because griefers come prepared. Wrong approach.
[17:35]	Krull Aeon:	Ahh ok, theres another nasty griefer tool called Zombies that replicate
[17:35]	xstorm Radek:	just turn off all the rezzing scripts
[17:35]	Krull Aeon:	Had a run in with those in Biome I and II
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	So the limit on llSetPos() was such a limit to prevent malicious objects from moving too fast
[17:36]	xstorm Radek:	take it out of the code library
[17:36]	Arawn Spitteler isn't scared of Zombies: Mono might actually open the way to stopping many griefer toys.
[17:36]	Moon Metty:	it can make testing a script very hard, without limit
[17:36]	xstorm Radek:	its about time we can stop the griefers
[17:36]	Moon Metty:	your object goes out of range
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not even sure what new kinds of clever stealth grief objects you can create with an uncapped llSetPos() but these days I think I'd rather try to uncap it and then try to fight the grief modes when the turn up
[17:37]	Andrew Linden:	yes Moon, more rope for scripters to make objects that appear to vanish
[17:37]	Andrew Linden:	a simple error on the llSetPos() and "poof!"
[17:37]	Moon Metty:	right
[17:37]	Charlette Proto:	but we can't do a thing about being thrown 10m by every idiot from Waterhead atm - just think of ending up in the sea
[17:38]	xstorm Radek:	can the ghost island not be some way that a group of griefers found to mess with the server ?
[17:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	Possible
[17:38]	Twisted Laws:	the old warppos still works under your plan, correct?
[17:38]	Charlette Proto:	refuses to do AR underwater on another sim
[17:38]	Twisted Laws:	it provides instant movement up to 1024 or so
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	possible xstorm, but the exact phenomonology of the ghost region is still not clear. is it a real region (you have visited it?) or is it just on the map?
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	It sounds like it is a map-only problem
[17:39]	Arawn Spitteler doesn't understand what the problem is
[17:39]	Krull Aeon:	If it moves around on the grid then it would also have to move from server to server wouldnt it
[17:39]	Charlette Proto:	does the ghost region show on the Ajax Life map (far superior to what we have)
[17:40]	Arawn Spitteler:	It would be on th4 same server, all the time
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	warpos is different Twisted. I think warpos has become a supported misfeature unfortunately
[17:40]	Krull Aeon:	Arent servers limited to 4 sims each
[17:40]	xstorm Radek:	well i know some islands can be hidden from the big map so if LL can do it i bet so smart griefer may have found a way
[17:41]	Twisted Laws:	yes, Andrew, but it is a replacement for PosJump now
[17:41]	Andrew Linden:	there are some SL-client map improvements in the pipeline
[17:41]	xstorm Radek:	thats good
[17:41]	Morgaine Dinova:	Griefing control is important, but should not be done by affecting non-griefers using a powerful facility usefully. That's just wrong. It's like the War on Terror, putting the whole population in police-state terror just because of a few.
[17:42]	Krull Aeon:	True Morgaine
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	Anyway, I was hoping to see if you guys had ideas of some LSL calls that need overhaul -- perhaps have legacy limits that could be changed at the same time as llSetPos()
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	I've got a small list:
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	llGetBoundingBox()
[17:42]	Charlette Proto:	tru Morgaine but we aren't doing much to stop griefers so why open out butts to them for more pain
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	llGetBouningBox() does odd things for very small objects
[17:42]	Twisted Laws:	extend sensor ranges or allow a sim sensor
[17:42]	Arawn Spitteler wonders what Morg thinks Terrorism, Drug Trafficking, Communism, White Slavery and Catholicism are for.
[17:43]	xstorm Radek:	yes the pysics watcher one needs to be fix
[17:43]	Andrew Linden:	llSetScale() will not work if the object is "dynamic" (physics on)
[17:43]	Morgaine Dinova:	Arawn: they're for putting the population under control But that's a bit off topic.
[17:43]	Andrew Linden:	llSetPrimitiveParams has a few other bugs, notably the child-rotation problem (SVC-93?)
[17:43]	Charlette Proto:	what about setting object params beyond 10m
[17:43]	Patty1 Rosca:	they are!
[17:43]	Krull Aeon:	Increase Physics limit so vehicles can be created with more than 31 prims
[17:43]	Moon Metty:	and the scaling of linked selections
[17:43]	Twisted Laws:	add a llGetLinkPrimitiveParams
[17:44]	Charlette Proto:	yep Moon
[17:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	SVC-93, and I recall there's another.
[17:44]	xstorm Radek:	yes please more then 31
[17:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	Scripted Torture is also needed.
[17:44]	xstorm Radek:	its been like that for years now
[17:44]	Moon Metty:	i guess the whole rotationcode has to be rewritten?
[17:44]	Krull Aeon:	Increase linked prim distance to 50 ratehr than 30M
[17:45]	Charlette Proto:	could ANIMATIONS be a list from LSL instead of animation file?
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	Well, I'm looking more for existing calls that need limic changes, or even small fixes. New LSL calls would go into a separate project
[17:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	Are we limited for integers? PRIM_ROTATION_LOCAL, PRIM_ROT_GLOBAL, PRIM_TYPE_TORTUED?
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	I wouldn't want to poison some bug fixes with a feature that did not pass committee
[17:46]	Simon Linden:	Animations need some work, but I think that goes into another project. IT would be nice to look at animation HUDs and figure out what we could do better, add synconization, etc
[17:46]	Moon Metty:	animations can use attention , yes :)
[17:46]	xstorm Radek:	*GIGGLES* :)Andrew Linden 01:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC) yes we need them bugs what will the moles eat at night ?
[17:46]	Krull Aeon:	Any news on Hierarchy yet :)
[17:46]	Charlette Proto:	OK lots of things in animation needs changing eg relative avie sceleton parts etc, need a lot of work
[17:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	Animations are sent from the server, for client side evaluation? I think that's a piping problem for the AWG
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	Moon you said something about "scaling of linked selections"... what is that?
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	Is that just a UI tool for scaling a subset of prims of a linked set?
[17:47]	Moon Metty:	well, if you select multiple prims in a linked set
[17:47]	Moon Metty:	and you try to rescale
[17:47]	Moon Metty:	the individual prims rescale
[17:48]	Charlette Proto:	scaling of linked sets would really be great
[17:48]	Moon Metty:	but that's not very useful
[17:48]	Moon Metty:	you want to scale the positions too
[17:48]	xstorm Radek:	i crash some times doing that
[17:48]	Charlette Proto:	precisely Moon
[17:48]	Charlette Proto:	atm it is a joke
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	Ah ok. Yeah that wouldn't be the kind of simpe project I'm looking for -- that would be a UI client + server project
[17:48]	Moon Metty:	there is a jira for it
[17:49]	Moon Metty:	i don't know where though :)
[17:49]	Charlette Proto:	OK onece again, put it on the features/improvements list
[17:49]	Moon Metty:	on the jira probably
[17:49]	Moon Metty:	o_O
[17:49]	xstorm Radek:	i like to see a 3D grid that will stay up when in edit of a prim
[17:49]	xstorm Radek:	so we can work with matching angles
[17:50]	Krull Aeon:	'Objects too far apart to link...' Grrrr, please increase cap :)
[17:50]	xstorm Radek:	*GIGGLES* :)Andrew Linden 01:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
[17:50]	Patty1 Rosca:	*GIGGLES*:)Andrew Linden 01:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
[17:50]	Patty1 Rosca:	*GIGGLES* :)Andrew Linden 01:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
[17:50]	Charlette Proto:	so what about increasing the prim size beyond 10m
[17:50]	Andrew Linden:	Sigh...
[17:50]	Krull Aeon:	Yes I hear you :)
[17:51]	Charlette Proto:	that is practically the same as llMoveTo()
[17:51]	Arawn Spitteler'd like to add a bit to physical objects, to settle SVC-22: Is our Sheep Hand here?
[17:51]	Charlette Proto:	on a 117 prim parcel the fence eats 12 prims
[17:52]	Krull Aeon:	So its actually a 105 prim parcel then Charlette :)
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	BTW, I'm going to have to leave around 18:00 because I have to be somewhere ah hour later
[17:52]	Charlette Proto:	hehe Krull
[17:52]	Krull Aeon:	lol
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	also, I should repeat that I'm going to be on vacation next week
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, are you going to be able to run the office hours?
[17:52]	Arawn Spitteler:	Does that mean you'll be in world all the time?
[17:53]	Charlette Proto:	great timing Andrew all other sims go online
[17:53]	Simon Linden:	I actually inadvertantly took a look at SVC-22 the other day, as I got involved in prim movement permissions
[17:53]	Simon Linden:	Things are pretty scary there :(
[17:54]	Andrew Linden:	There are some other bugs similar to SVC-22 we've tried to fix and failed. Yeah that code is fragile.
[17:54]	Arawn Spitteler quotes Thereau: The World is much too complicated. Simplify, Simplify.
[17:54]	Charlette Proto:	so ll SetPrimitiveParams() couldn't do more than 10m dimentsions
[17:54]	Charlette Proto:	wants legal prims bigger than 10m
[17:55]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, I'm not going to get into megaprims today... ho hum.
[17:55]	Patty1 Rosca:	*GIGGLES*:)Andrew Linden 01:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
[17:55]	Patty1 Rosca:	*GIGGLES* :)Andrew Linden 01:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
[17:55]	Krull Aeon:	Haill the Mega prim liberation front :D
[17:55]	Charlette Proto:	not mega but 64m would be reasonable
[17:55]	Moon Metty:	hehe
[17:55]	Andrew Linden:	>10m is mega in my lexicon
[17:55]	Simon Linden:	The code is fragile, and the rules are funky. For example, it's easy to set parcels where you can mix the rez and object entry abilities, and we also grandfather in existing objects
[17:55]	Arawn Spitteler:	32 meters could fence most newbi parcels
[17:56]	xstorm Radek:	my voice has crashed
[17:56]	Charlette Proto:	true even 32m would be a strt
[17:56]	Charlette Proto:	strat*
[17:56]	Arawn Spitteler:	Voice isn't saved to transcript
[17:56]	Patty1 Rosca:	so no one talking
[17:56]	Charlette Proto:	nobody is listening to your snorring xStorm
[17:56]	Patty1 Rosca:	lol'
[17:57]	Moon Metty:	lol
[17:57]	Krull Aeon:	Andrew what effects do Megas have on server load
[17:57]	Charlette Proto:	hail the 32m prims
[17:57]	Patty1 Rosca:	yes char
[17:57]	Charlette Proto:	w32m prims ould reduce the load by eliminating the count
[17:57]	Charlette Proto:	32m would*
[17:57]	Andrew Linden:	Krull, ask me that in two weeks. I'm not going to talk about megaprims today.
[17:57]	Krull Aeon:	Ok
[17:58]	Charlette Proto:	hehe BASTA
[17:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	It's an irrelevant discussion that misses the point. Megaprims are not the problem. Their misuse is. So tackle the misuse, by calculating a cost automatically, and penalizing the cost.
[17:58]	Moon Metty:	it's like traffic, Charlette, the parcel will always be filled with prims
[17:58]	Charlette Proto:	32m prims or I'll rez the Dickburns Steampunk stuff
[17:58]	Krull Aeon:	Thanks Morgaine :)
[17:58]	Charlette Proto:	sry
[17:59]	Arawn Spitteler:	h/me's Steam Punk Vehicle was invented by a guy named Gamble: Oh, my! I've just violated Community Standards.
[17:59]	Patty1 Rosca:	lol'
[17:59]	Andrew Linden:	Alright, I'm going to have to head out very soon. Thanks for coming.
[18:00]	Andrew Linden grabs a copy of the transcripts...
[18:00]	Jane Fossett:	thank you andrew.
[18:00]	Morgaine Dinova:	Have a good holiday, Andrew :-)
[18:00]	Moon Metty:	ok thank you Andrew :)
[18:00]	Twisted Laws:	thanks, have a good vacation
[18:00]	Charlette Proto:	have a good vacation Andrew
[18:00]	xstorm Radek:	have a good day
[18:00]	Patty1 Rosca:	bye Andrew
[18:00]	Krull Aeon:	Thanks for your time Andrew :)
[18:00]	xstorm Radek:	ty
[18:00]	Moon Metty:	and Simon as always
[18:00]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone for coming
[18:00]	Charlette Proto:	Simon you'll be here next week?
[18:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	Don't spend your vacation in SL, but send your wife to check it out.
[18:00]	Moon Metty:	hehe
[18:00]	Simon Linden:	Yes, I should be around.