User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 05 26

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[11:02]	Squirrel Wood:	Hello Andrew!
[11:02]	Moon Metty:	the question is, with what viewer?
[11:02]	Rex Cronon:	woof. woof:)
[11:02]	Squirrel Wood:	1.23.2
[11:02]	Moon Metty:	hi Andrew :)
[11:02]	Techwolf Lupindo:	1.23 and up
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	Hello
[11:02]	Squirrel Wood:	and 1.22 too
[11:02]	Moon Metty:	1.23.3 has a fix
[11:02]	Rex Cronon:	hi andrew
[11:02]	Kerry Giha:	Hello Andrew
[11:03]	Moon Metty:	but only a fix for the 1.23 trouble
[11:03]	Moon Metty:	how are you Andrew?
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	Sorry I wasn't able to make it last Thursday.
[11:03]	Squirrel Wood:	np
[11:04]	Twisted Laws:	Hello
[11:04]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Rumors was flying around as to why. :-)
[11:04]	Rex Cronon:	u made people think, u got lost in the code, and couldn't get out:)
[11:04]	Squirrel Wood:	hi Simon
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	My schedule is getting very full lately. I'm going to be very busy over the next few weeks, working on server-1.27
[11:05]	Moon Metty:	hi Simon :)
[11:05]	Simon Linden:	Hello
[11:05]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Hi simon
[11:05]	Rex Cronon:	hi simon
[11:05]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Simon says dance. ;-)
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, so announcements...
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	server-1.27 has actually branched
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	which means we are now testing it... but we're also going to merge a few small projects in
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	most of those are internal tools projects, but they do include a bunch of bug fixes that have been getting stale in my maint-server- branches
[11:07]	Patnad Babii:	http-in is in 1.27 right ?
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	which is what I'm going to be doing for the next few weeks: just trying to get these bug fixes past QA
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	Yes Patnad, I believe http-in in already in server-1.27
[11:07]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Is 1.27 on the beta grid?
[11:07]	Patnad Babii:	sweet i love this feature :)
[11:08]	Patnad Babii:	yes 1.27 is on a few sim already i saw it
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	the #deploy group is hoping to have it on the beta grid (aka "aditi") by the end of this week.
[11:08]	Simon Linden:	The beta grid is a mix right now ... some is 1.26.4, some 1.27 or the http-in variant, I think
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	Uh.. I don't think 1.27 is deployed anywhere that is accessible yet.
[11:08]	Latif Khalifa:	do you have a new release manager?
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	Oh ok, maybe there are some early deploys there.
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	Bridie Linden is still the release manager.
[11:09]	Patnad Babii:	there is region called http-in in the beta grid
[11:09]	Patnad Babii:	they use some revision of 1.27
[11:09]	Latif Khalifa:	prospero was in charge of server deploys including aditi
[11:09]	Simon Linden:	I'm not sure about the non-1.26 servers there, if they are 1.27 or the early http-in code.
[11:09]	Simon Linden:	The new branch should get there soon
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, Prospero was "deploy manager" and would do most of the actual rolling restarts for the main grid.
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	I won't be fixing many new bugs over the next few weeks unfortunately. I've got a pile already fixed but not merged.
[11:11]	Patnad Babii:	this thing in the middle of the table.. is it a feature you are adding to 1.27 ?
[11:11]	Moon Metty:	yes of course
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	Is Prokofy here today?
[11:11]	Moon Metty:	the thing on the table is a jira helper
[11:12]	Moon Metty:	when you say a jira number like scv-3819 it helps
[11:12]	Patnad Babii:	ok sorry never seen one of those before
[11:12]	Simon Linden:	svc-22 for the win!
[11:12]	JIRA-helper: https:	//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22
	[#SVC-22] Parcel restrictions inappropriately applied to vehicles on border crossings.
[11:12]	Latif Khalifa:	lol
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	I told Prokofy that I would look at SVC-4142 and have an opinion today.
[11:12]	Simon Linden:	nicely done
[11:12]	Moon Metty:	right Simon
[11:12]	JIRA-helper: https:	//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4142
	[#SVC-4142] Giving out group tags - give out Assigned Roles and all Tags are given as Everyone yet they have the ability to go to Active Title and change it to the Assigned Role given.
[11:12]	Moon Metty:	it doesn't spam :)
[11:12]	Moon Metty:	svc-22
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	I forgot to look at it until this morning, so I quickly tried to understand it between two meetings.
[11:12]	Patnad Babii:	would be handy to be able to ban people out of a group
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	Looks like a bug or design flaw, although there are a number of related bugs that are confusing things.
[11:13]	Squirrel Wood:	I am more concerned about https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2825
[11:13]	JIRA-helper: [#SVC-2825] New Feature -> Dialog -> Group Information -> Ban List
[11:13]	Squirrel Wood:	porky is agains this one :p
[11:14]	Moon Metty gave you JIRA-helper.
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	Near the end of the SVC-4142 discussion some poeple have written some responses that summarize the situation pretty good.
[11:14]	Patnad Babii:	i dont see why would anyone be against such a feature.. umm
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	I dunno what our final solution will be, and I'm not working on that bug right now, but ... looks like we've got some work to do on it.
[11:15]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I just read it. Its a step backwards.
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	Ok... I think that is all the news I had. Lemme look at -2825...
[11:15]	Techwolf Lupindo:	arg...lag.
[11:15]	Techwolf Lupindo:	re:svc-4142
[11:16]	Patnad Babii:	alot of the time, some people join group where joining is free, just to spam the heck out.. then leave.. would be handy to ban those people
[11:16]	Patnad Babii:	i made all my groups invite only and using bot to join people touching a sign because of that
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	SVC- 2825 is request for allowing groups to have open-join but explicitly ban certain people
[11:17]	Squirrel Wood:	yes.
[11:17]	Patnad Babii:	you kick them they just keep coming back and harder
[11:17]	Squirrel Wood:	the problem with open groups is that kicking spamvertisers and idiots is pointless. they just rejoin immediately
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, sounds like we probably need to add that.
[11:18]	Patnad Babii:	im not having problem with using a bot.. but... i could use my bandwidth for better things...
[11:18]	Techwolf Lupindo:	re:svc-2825, how that sliped past the inistial design of groups, why was groups rolled out without any moderator tools?
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	Sigh... the groups stuff is bound to get even more complicated.
[11:18]	Patnad Babii:	and you could probably save resource too ehe
[11:18]	Squirrel Wood:	basically its a list that is checked when someone tries to join a group and if they're blacklisted... they can't
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	Techwolf, groups started pretty basic and have been picking up features.
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	Back in... 2006 or so there was a big overhaul of groups and the groups-roles stuff was added.
[11:19]	Patnad Babii:	oh btw.. i liked the idea phillip had the other day regarding, IRC style group, where you need to join a group to listen to its chat..
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	So, prior to that SVC- 4142 wasn't even an issue.
[11:20]	Patnad Babii:	i wonder if you will go forward with this
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	I dunno Patnad. Where did Philip make that suggestion? In an in-world meeting? Office hours? or online forums?
[11:21]	Patnad Babii:	uhm was in the aw groupies group i belive
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	You can't currently listen to a group's chat without joining, can you?
[11:21]	Techwolf Lupindo:	ermm...don't you have to join a group now to listen to its group chat now?
[11:21]	Moon Metty:	i don't see how
[11:21]	Patnad Babii:	well what he suggested was that the group dont auto open when your a member and there is a chat
[11:22]	Squirrel Wood:	on login you are auto joined to all groups you are in
[11:22]	Patnad Babii:	you`d need to manually open the group to follow convo
[11:22]	Latif Khalifa:	why?
[11:22]	Latif Khalifa:	lol
[11:22]	Attica Bekkers:	ohthat would be terible Patnad
[11:22]	Latif Khalifa:	doesn't sound very smart
[11:22]	Attica Bekkers:	I woudl miss everything
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	Oh, so you're already a member of the group. But if you try to 'rejoin'... only then do you subscribe to group chat?
[11:22]	Patnad Babii:	well to save resouce on server... and lots of people complain they are getting spammed by their group
[11:22]	Techwolf Lupindo:	For role-players, NEVER EVER pop open any windows automatilly.
[11:22]	Attica Bekkers:	omg mid have to have 25 window sopen and monitor them
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	So the "join" button is overridden for "subscribe to chat", and it must be done manuall?
[11:23]	Latif Khalifa:	grpup chat is fine as it is now... provided that the backedn actually worked... which it doesn't;)
[11:23]	Angela Talamasca:	i would much prefer the ability to completely disable a chat (similar to the "recieve group notices" function).
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	Well, in any case that sounds like a User Interface tweak. The SL servers wouldn't need to be involved in that change.
[11:24]	Patnad Babii:	no i talk about group your already subscribed in, when you connect in SL, they automatcily open when a message is posted. What Phillip was sugesting is that they stop opening and to listen to a chat you have to open yourself the group windows you want to listen to
[11:24]	Attica Bekkers:	iwantthem to open
[11:25]	Simon Linden:	Sounds like a preference then
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, so we know right now it would have to be optional for each behavior.
[11:25]	Latif Khalifa:	you don't listen to a group, the server sends you message
[11:25]	Patnad Babii:	just like you have to do in IRC, you connect, then join a channel
[11:25]	Angela Talamasca:	so do i. too easy to miss pertinent discussions for those groups i actively follow.
[11:25]	JB Hancroft nods... ona group-by-group basis?
[11:25]	Moon Metty:	it should be a per-group setting
[11:25]	Rex Cronon:	i would like to at least receive a notice that here is talk in the group chat
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	I wish the User Inferface (UI) designers luck in their endeavors.
[11:25]	Saijanai Kuhn:	that's really what the tab does
[11:25]	Latif Khalifa:	I wish group chat back end worked
[11:26]	Angela Talamasca:	i'm w/moon on that idea, per group option.
[11:26]	Attica Bekkers:	is VWR-6852 any closer? i miss my render axis very badly still
[11:26]	JIRA-helper: https:	//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6852
	[#VWR-6852] Render Axes renders at the Sim corner
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	I don't know about VWR- 6852. That is a SL viewer bug.
[11:27]	Simon Linden:	I'll check to see what the internal status is
[11:27]	Attica Bekkers:	ty
[11:29]	Angela Talamasca:	Andrew, have you had any time to look into VWR-5491? Although that was originally posted as a viewer bug, i hold that the problem spans both server and client side.
[11:29]	JIRA-helper: https:	//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5491
	[#VWR-5491] Group Members Not Enabled to Do So Can Return Group-Owned Linked Prims if Any Component is in Share With Group
[11:29]	Simon Linden:	It's assigned to someone internally, so I'll add a note that it came up here and hopefully that will get some more attention. It's in the viewer group,however, so Andrew and I aren't involved in setting their priorities
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	Angela, I was talking about that bug earlier. I did try to read it
[11:30]	Attica Bekkers:	thanks
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	It looks like there is a real bug or design flaw there. Yes it would require a server-side fix.
[11:30]	Angela Talamasca:	i did try to outline the issue to better clarify it.
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	Dunno when we'll be able to get to it. There are a buch of related bugs that are mentioned in some of the comments.
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	Ah yes Angela, actually thank you very much for your comments. Yours were the ones I was reading that helped me actually understand what was being talked about.
[11:31]	Moon Metty:	:)
[11:32]	Angela Talamasca:	thanks. ㋡
[11:32]	Patnad Babii:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4107 this should be carefully looked at, a friend of mine found a terrible exploit to it..
[11:32]	JIRA-helper: [#SVC-4107] Changing object permissions in inventory sets owner permissions to new owner permissions
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	I had to skip the flame war at the top.
[11:33]	Angela Talamasca:	lolol
[11:33]	Moon Metty:	i'm sure svc-4107 is fixed
[11:33]	Patnad Babii:	oh oops
[11:33]	Patnad Babii:	hum then its something similar
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	BTW Simon, someone was asking about giving proper physics to sculpties again...
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	how hard would it be, and if I would be interested in working on it
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	I told them I'd love to do it, but don't think I could escape my current pile of duties
[11:35]	Moon Metty:	hehe
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	so I said that you could do it
[11:35]	JB Hancroft chuckles
[11:35]	Techwolf Lupindo chuckles "Drafted"
[11:35]	Simon Linden:	Sounds good to me, as long as a certain manager is happy
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	We need to find someone to do my job so I can get back to fixing bugs.
[11:36]	Uni Ninetails:	pfffft half a bottle of famou grouse in the coffee will solve that
[11:36]	JB Hancroft:	apologies... have to go...
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	We've been having a pretty large attendance here.
[11:38]	Techwolf Lupindo:	We are all fans of you. :-)
[11:38]	Techwolf Lupindo chuckles
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	However, I haven't had much news, and I can't really start working on most of the hot items that are raised here
[11:38]	Squirrel Wood:	Still you are here and listen to us :)
[11:38]	Moon Metty:	we don't have this talk just to keep you at work Andrew :)
[11:38]	Squirrel Wood:	And that makes it all worth being here :)
[11:38]	Angela Talamasca:	i unfortunately seem to have a horrid habit of burning the midnight oil on my coding projects and end up either missing them or arriving late as i did today.
[11:39]	Techwolf Lupindo:	<insert standered LL rant here>
[11:39]	Techwolf Lupindo:	:-)
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	I'm just mentioning this because I often wonder whether I'm wasting my (and your) time with these office hours. I usually conclude that I'm not -- that this communication channel is important, but it occurs to me every few week.s
[11:39]	Twisted Laws:	definitely not a waste!
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	These office hours started as part of the Havok4 physics engine overhaul
[11:39]	Moon Metty:	yes
[11:39]	Uni Ninetails:	deffo not
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	and when that was going on there was a great deal to talk about, and lots of bugs that needed attention
[11:40]	Attica Bekkers:	its important
[11:40]	Rex Cronon:	not a waste
[11:40]	Qie Niangao:	I think there'd be a lot of despondent people if these didn't happen
[11:40]	Angela Talamasca:	definitely not a waste. wait till i get to the crime scene recreations that will be very dependent upon the physic behavior. lol
[11:40]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Some issues are overlooked one the jira and it nice to be able to get a lindent to take a look at it so it can be fixed as to why its being overlooked.
[11:40]	Techwolf Lupindo:	one=on
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, that's what I always conclude. However...
[11:41]	Simon Linden:	It's one of the few places I get to hear what residents are experiencing, so it's worth it to me
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	There are some "public bug triage" meetings. Do any of you attend those?
[11:41]	Simon Linden:	But it's also really hard to actually respond to many of the problems or requests
[11:41]	Angela Talamasca:	they're good from a community building stand point as well.
[11:41]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Now if only LL manament would do the same....
[11:41]	Moon Metty:	yes, i go to the triages
[11:41]	Simon Linden:	I do have one bit of news ... the 1000 prim limit on "Take" and related operations was raised today to 4000. It's much easier now to make a coalesced object that won't rez, but that's the flip-side to the limit
[11:41]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Some of the insance policiy changes could have been avoided.
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	The triage meetings are for prioritizing the new bugs for the most part.
[11:41]	Attica Bekkers:	oh bless your hearts:)
[11:42]	Moon Metty:	ok Simon
[11:42]	Techwolf Lupindo watches the party break out on that news.
[11:42]	Moon Metty:	heehee
[11:42]	Rex Cronon:	if something is borked in world, comming here and telling u about it, is possible to get attention to it than only by making a jira. who has time to really read all of tehm
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	Also, I should mention that if anyone has some question or issue they are saving for the end... best to just put it on the table now before the meeting is over.
[11:43]	FCRS Hud sHi0.0 whispers: Free Ultimate Radar by RD Mod's Technologies !
[11:43]	Squirrel Wood:	good. What's for lunch today?
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	I've got another meeting (internal bug triage) right after office hours on Tuesdays.
[11:43]	Angela Talamasca:	jira is far too disorganised, imo.
[11:43]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Squirrel for lunch today. :-)
[11:43]	Squirrel Wood:	jira needs a jira to sort out important issues ;)
[11:43]	Simon Linden:	Jira's tough ... you want it open so anyone can file a problem report, but that leads to the chaos
[11:43]	Attica Bekkers:	LINK_THIS is still kind of broken SVC-3199 SVC-600 but i dontthink its major
[11:43]	JIRA-helper: https:	//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3199
	[#SVC-3199] llSetLinkTexture(LINK_THIS, foo, bar) permssions handling broken for given objects
[11:44]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Just taking out the link to the jira in the client will help it a LOT.
[11:44]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Over half the issues are closed "contact support"
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	Well, jira is chaotic, but it serves a great purpose -- it can provide a common location for talking about bugs.
[11:44]	Rex Cronon:	i have a question regarding particles. i noticed recently that particles that point to object/avatars move very very very slow
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	I can't remember all the details of a bug, so it is very convenient to get the details under some jira # so I can look them up when necessary
[11:45]	Rex Cronon:	it seems there is no way to mke the movefaster:(
[11:45]	Simon Linden:	Hmm, have you tried older viewers? The particles are all created on the viewer side, so I wonder if something changed there
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... don't particles have a velocity setting? Is the velocity capped?
[11:45]	Angela Talamasca:	i agree. the problem is the managment or lack thereof. anyone being able to close it, people being banned, etc. it's more like a forum for techies or techie wanna bes.
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	The particle velocity is a client-side feature for the most part -- the server doesn't know much about particles except it sends the raw particle data down.
[11:46]	Patnad Babii gave you Debit Permission Problem.
[11:46]	Rex Cronon:	i played with diferentsettings, no thing chanes particles seed
[11:46]	Angela Talamasca:	particle speed also changes dep on the distance to travel and "alive" time.
[11:46]	Rex Cronon:	changes particles sped*
[11:46]	Squirrel Wood:	so to put it simple, the server knows the particle sources but that's it.
[11:47]	Squirrel Wood:	and of course which texture to use
[11:47]	Attica Bekkers:	oh thats interesting
[11:47]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Particial sources beacons often point to empty air. :-(
[11:47]	Angela Talamasca:	that makes the most sense as particles are a client side feature.
[11:47]	Simon Linden:	Right -- so it would be good to compare the current behavior with the oldest viewer, and see if it's changed.
[11:48]	Qie Niangao:	As I recall, if the particle is targeting an av or an object, the live time drives how fast it moves--regardless of min & max vel
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	Rex, this is a "new" particle oddity?
[11:49]	Rex Cronon:	time 2 live? haven't tried that. i don't know if is a particle oddity
[11:49]	Angela Talamasca:	time 2 live + a specified target will alter the particle speed.
[11:49]	Attica Bekkers:	the live time and distance do drive speed
[11:50]	Attica Bekkers:	itgetsther einthe time it has to live so to speek, very missionoriented:)
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	Oh right, particles have a "duration" and a "destiniation" point right
[11:50]	Moon Metty:	that sounds logical Attica
[11:50]	Angela Talamasca:	time 2 live by itself does not appear affect the sped.
[11:50]	Attica Bekkers:	yes
[11:50]	Squirrel Wood:	wasn't prokofy complaining last week about some griefer client that can "turn" attached prims on nearby avatars into particle sources?
[11:50]	Qie Niangao:	PSYS_PART_MAX_AGE
[11:50]	Moon Metty:	ehh, Rex, i get a little lag here
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	So the particle speed would depend on how far it had to go within its lifetime.
[11:50]	Angela Talamasca:	yeah, that's prolly targeted particles.
[11:50]	Attica Bekkers:	thatha sbeen myexperience
[11:50]	Attica Bekkers:	withtargets
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	Ack Rex you're killing my render FPS.
[11:50]	Rex Cronon:	ideed time to live affects speed
[11:51]	Rex Cronon:	i deleted it
[11:51]	Squirrel Wood gave you particlegrief.
[11:51]	Rex Cronon:	thank you:)
[11:51]	Rex Cronon:	sadly tere is no mention aboutthat i the wiki:(
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	It's a wiki! I nominate Rex to fix it.
[11:52]	Moon Metty:	hehehe
[11:52]	Qie Niangao:	particles are more art than science... a black art, at that.
[11:52]	Rex Cronon:	sorry can't do anythingabout it. have to wait for them to die:(
[11:52]	Angela Talamasca:	well, time 2 live + speed should result in distance computation, where time 2 live and distance to target should affect speed.
[11:52]	Rex Cronon:	pleas turn off your particle for a few minutes
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	It's all cleared up for me
[11:53]	Angela Talamasca:	me too
[11:53]	Rex Cronon:	didn
[11:53]	Techwolf Lupindo:	??, my render times was un-affected.
[11:53]	Rex Cronon:	didn't mean to lag anybody
[11:54]	Angela Talamasca:	yah, uh-huh, that's what they all say. ^_~
[11:54]	Moon Metty:	did you have Rex in view, Tech?
[11:54]	Techwolf Lupindo:	yes
[11:54]	Moon Metty:	hmmm
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	Perhaps your graphics card is way better than mine.
[11:54]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 260/PCI/SSE2
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	Particle bombs cause lots of pixel-fill I think, so some cards will be affected worse than others.
[11:55]	Rex Cronon:	to me it looked like changing time to live indeed affects speed:)
[11:55]	Patnad Babii:	particle bombs crash sims sometime
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	I'm on a GeForce 8600 in a laptop
[11:56]	Rex Cronon:	so, there is no bug. false alarm:)
[11:56]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Hope you got laptop cooling there.
[11:56]	Simon Linden:	They can crash sims? That would be interesting
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, it is sitting on some fans.
[11:56]	Patnad Babii:	my sandbox has been grieffed maybe its combined with sound tho.. but the whole sim was filled with jumping particles...
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	I don't believe that particle bombs can crash sims.
[11:56]	Moon Metty:	crash sims because many connected clients are slow to respond and lose packets?
[11:56]	Techwolf Lupindo:	The SL client can bring laptop to there kness and more. :-)
[11:56]	Angela Talamasca:	don't see how they could crash sims unless they're changing particle textures at a high rate and therefore causing the server proc to verload
[11:57]	Rex Cronon:	i had mine to live for 30 secons:)
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	They must have crashed it with something else.
[11:57]	Patnad Babii:	probably script usage too
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, there are still a few LSL driven crashes, but none in the particle system that I know of.
[11:58]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I was in a RL meeting of sim admins title "Admin horror stories". Got to learn how things was done in the past.
[11:58]	Moon Metty:	what if 25 viewers on the same sim have a packet loss of 300%?
[11:58]	Techwolf Lupindo:	This past weekend that is
[11:58]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Did I miss Andrew?
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	I'm still here, but I've got to go very soon.
[11:59]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	May I address you very quickly then? ;)
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	Go ahead.
[11:59]	Angela Talamasca:	speaking of viewers, a lot of peopel do not realize that viewer draw distance can impact neighboring sims. so if u have a bunch of people with their draw distance maxed, visiting sim clusters, ur gonna see some effect.
[11:59]	Simon Linden:	Angela - yes, that would cause more updates from the neighbor regions
[11:59]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	There are a few JIRA's I've been supporting lately in the name of trying to help performance, and one of them specifically has to do with physics.
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	That is true Angela.
[11:59]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Untill they fix the LOD, most will have draw distance maxxed out.
[12:00]	Patnad Babii:	i often crash visiting mainland because of my draw distance = 512m
[12:00]	Angela Talamasca:	which is why i crank mine down very low when visiting others.
[12:00]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4197 ("Create STATUS_TRANSLATE_* flags for llSetStatus")
[12:00]	JIRA-helper: https:	//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4197
	[#SVC-4197] Create STATUS_TRANSLATE_* flags for llSetStatus
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	What are the jira numbers Seastean?
[12:01]	Rex Cronon:	btw, did i hear right. the 1000 prim cap is going to be fixed? if that is so, than lots of people will be happy
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... contraints on translations
[12:01]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	The notecard I handed you has the full list, but that is the one in specific that I was referencing.
[12:01]	Sebastean Steamweaver gave you "Want to Help Make SL a Better Place?" (notecard).
[12:01]	Rex Cronon:	i am talking about SVC-4207
[12:01]	JIRA-helper: https:	//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4207
	[#SVC-4207] Server 1.26.3.118580 : Limit of 1000 prims on coallesced objects makes dealing with large builds IMPOSSIBLE
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	Unfortunately I'm going to have to run soon.
[12:02]	Uni Ninetails:	[11:41] Simon Linden: I do have one bit of news ... the 1000 prim limit on "Take" and related operations was raised today to 4000. It's much easier now to make a coalesced object that won't rez, but that's the flip-side to the limit
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	Sebastean, that feature sounds kinda tricky
[12:02]	Sebastean Steamweaver nods
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	constraints like that can cause instabilities in the physics engine, since restoring an object to some previous location along the contraint can pump energy into the system.
[12:03]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I like to see working swings.
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	The rotaional constraint is actually done through the "inverse inertia" hack that happens to be "safe".
[12:04]	Moon Metty:	mmm yes
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	Sebastean, I'll ponder it and perhaps we can talk about it more later.
[12:04]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Thank you very much Andrew :) I appreciate it.
[12:04]	Patnad Babii:	any word about the upcoming script time limit per parcel ?!
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	Sorry, got to run to my next meeting.
[12:04]	Moon Metty:	thank you for your time Andrew
[12:04]	Attica Bekkers:	the ability t o set no objects to not running got borked sometimes since feb-ish , I have no mod shoes with 48 fullperm evil bling scripts in, butheyare ubercool with no bling but i havent found ajira, and cant make a jira i have no idea when it happened
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks for coming everyone.
[12:04]	Qie Niangao:	thanks, Andrew
[12:04]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrw
[12:05]	Andrew Linden:	No word on taht right now Patnab. Ask Babbage Linden.