User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 09 10

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  • [2009/09/10 17:00] Panic Xenobuilder: ^^
  • [2009/09/10 17:00] Arawn Spitteler: The Howver Spell? That's normally done, by lifting your toe on the side people don't see.
  • [2009/09/10 17:00] Meeter: Welcome to Linden office hours
  • [2009/09/10 17:00] Saijanai Kuhn: so should we mention megasims in LL?
  • [2009/09/10 17:00] Saijanai Kuhn: in SL*
  • [2009/09/10 17:00] Arawn Spitteler: SHEEP!!!
  • [2009/09/10 17:00] Sasy Scarborough: back
  • [2009/09/10 17:00] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
  • [2009/09/10 17:00] Sindy Tsure drops a sheep on rex
  • [2009/09/10 17:00] Sindy Tsure: hiyas
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] Sindy Tsure: lol @ arawn
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Rex, you want to give Sindy a hand?
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] reddot99 Republic: hey andrew,
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] Sasy Scarborough: hi Andrew
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] Rex Cronon: i feel sory for your sheep:)
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] Andrew Linden: hello
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] Rex Cronon: hi andrew
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] Sindy Tsure: heya andrew
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] Ardy Lay: Sheep?
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] Rex Cronon: what do u mean arawn?
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] Morgaine Dinova: Wow, sheep, long time no see :-)))
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] Sindy Tsure: :)
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] Morgaine Dinova: How goes Sindy?
  • [2009/09/10 17:01] Sindy Tsure: it goes well!
  • [2009/09/10 17:02] Sasy Scarborough: incoming ball of fluff
  • [2009/09/10 17:02] Sasy Scarborough: hiya Meko :)
  • [2009/09/10 17:02] Rex Cronon: we need a wolf to eat them:)
  • [2009/09/10 17:02] Sindy Tsure: unless somebody TPs into my place, which happens about once a minute, then the whole sim freezes up..
  • [2009/09/10 17:02] Arawn Spitteler: That's interesting
  • [2009/09/10 17:02] Ardy Lay: Methinks Andrew is having a case of the slowrez.
  • [2009/09/10 17:02] Sindy Tsure figured she would come by and complain to andrew, since he has so little to do at work
  • [2009/09/10 17:02] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Andrew :-)
  • [2009/09/10 17:02] Arawn Spitteler: I didn't see anyone sitting in the chairs Andrew was attempting
  • [2009/09/10 17:02] Andrew Linden: Yes, things are rezzing slowly
  • [2009/09/10 17:03] Morgaine Dinova: There's a slow virus going around
  • [2009/09/10 17:03] Andrew Linden: Simon Linden won't be able to make it today.
  • [2009/09/10 17:03] reddot99 Republic: aww,
  • [2009/09/10 17:04] Andrew Linden: Looks like server-1.30 is still on (delayed) schedule for next week.
  • [2009/09/10 17:04] Saijanai Kuhn: So Andrew, what's the reaction inside LL to http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/09/more-on-megaregions/
  • [2009/09/10 17:04] Andrew Linden: And today I fixed a bug relating to teleporting home when you don't have a home location saved -- it was not randomizing correctly.
  • [2009/09/10 17:05] Techwolf Lupindo: I just looked and found the spam email from LL. So put me on that list that got that mail from LL>
  • [2009/09/10 17:05] Sindy Tsure too
  • [2009/09/10 17:05] reddot99 Republic: mail?
  • [2009/09/10 17:05] Andrew Linden: Tomorrow I'll start on some internal tools for helping with copyright/trademark takedown tools. But I don't think that little project is going to take very long.
  • [2009/09/10 17:06] Andrew Linden: And that is all for announcements.
  • [2009/09/10 17:06] Ardy Lay: Andrew, is there a way to discard a saved "home" location?
  • [2009/09/10 17:06] reddot99 Republic: can there be more then one home?
  • [2009/09/10 17:06] Andrew Linden: No Ardy, once you have a home location you can only change it by saving a new one.
  • [2009/09/10 17:06] Phantom Ninetails: I currently have no home location
  • [2009/09/10 17:06] Ardy Lay: Okay
  • [2009/09/10 17:06] Phantom Ninetails: I get returned to a random region when sent home
  • [2009/09/10 17:07] reddot99 Republic: lol
  • [2009/09/10 17:07] Andrew Linden: No, only one home. You can use landmarks for managing many favorite places.
  • [2009/09/10 17:07] Charlette Proto: the use of CryoLife is rampant in welcome areas ATM, the thing is useless except for copybot for dummies componenet, could it be blocked
  • [2009/09/10 17:07] reddot99 Republic: it now has a warning, doesnt it?
  • [2009/09/10 17:07] Sasy Scarborough: ive always dreamed of two homes, one for work one for home
  • [2009/09/10 17:07] Charlette Proto: i know we talked about blocking last week, but being me I have to say it since I represent many people butthurt about being cloned
  • [2009/09/10 17:08] Andrew Linden: No Charlette, there is no way to block a viewer. Any "technology" attemp to detect the viewer can always be spoofed.
  • [2009/09/10 17:08] Saijanai Kuhn: Aimee Weber just took out a trademark on her avatar
  • [2009/09/10 17:08] Techwolf Lupindo: Give them some vasleen.
  • [2009/09/10 17:08] Sasy Scarborough: wow , did she really?
  • [2009/09/10 17:08] Panic Xenobuilder: still no realease notes for server 1.3? or am i just blind?
  • [2009/09/10 17:08] Sasy Scarborough: how can she do that when she didnt make the content she wears ?
  • [2009/09/10 17:09] Charlette Proto: yeah but it is dummies using Cryo so they can't spoof anything except their cat at home
  • [2009/09/10 17:09] Rex Cronon: charlette. is your avatar includig attachments and cloths being cloned?
  • [2009/09/10 17:09] Andrew Linden: However, I think some work can be done to make copybot more difficult for avatars. I think that work should be done, however it wouldn't make copybot impossible, only a little harder.
  • [2009/09/10 17:09] Arawn Spitteler: Her avatar might count as an original composition
  • [2009/09/10 17:09] Latif Khalifa: oh noes, not another "they stole my bits" meeting
  • [2009/09/10 17:09] Techwolf Lupindo: Corps can tradmark logos commisioned, so it can be done without creating it.
  • [2009/09/10 17:09] Andrew Linden: Nevertheless, it might dissuade many from using it.
  • [2009/09/10 17:09] Sasy Scarborough: i agree Andrew
  • [2009/09/10 17:09] Charlette Proto: the Cryo being used is the same old copy on torrents and wiped of the main server
  • [2009/09/10 17:09] reddot99 Republic: the combination there of,
  • [2009/09/10 17:10] Saijanai Kuhn: http://www.virtualworldsnews.com/2009/09/trademarking-avatars-now-an-option.html
  • [2009/09/10 17:10] Sasy Scarborough: one tool that is handy in the emerald and upcoming imprudence is the last owner in edit, we talked about that before to be put in LL viewer and snowglobe, is that going to happen ?
  • [2009/09/10 17:10] Andrew Linden: Here's an idea I had that I haven't mentioned before...
  • [2009/09/10 17:11] Andrew Linden: the viewer is open source, and there are a few anti-piracy features that could be implemented therein
  • [2009/09/10 17:11] reddot99 Republic: such as?
  • [2009/09/10 17:11] Charlette Proto: trademark is based on commercial reliance on the design, not really of any use to personal feeling about clones of you trolling you just because they know they will hurt your feelings and LL isn't doing a thing about it
  • [2009/09/10 17:11] Latif Khalifa: its a waste of time to get into the arms race, content that you can see you can copy, end of story
  • [2009/09/10 17:11] Andrew Linden: for example, you could have a feature where you "register" certain content for which you want to watch for "copies"
  • [2009/09/10 17:11] Techwolf Lupindo: The current avatar upgrades now will help in the avatar looking copy issue. The viewer can no longer request each piece of cloathing. Just the baked textures. This will help as they can only get the baked textruew and therefore an exact copy can only be made. They can't change it. Makes detection easer.
  • [2009/09/10 17:12] Saijanai Kuhn: sure, people can wear Aimee Weber "costumes" all day long, they just can't use the appearance to market their products
  • [2009/09/10 17:12] Latif Khalifa: i think Linden Lab is better of using their resources somewhere else
  • [2009/09/10 17:12] Andrew Linden: and then your viewer could scan everything it ever sees and reports to you the info about the copies automagically
  • [2009/09/10 17:12] Sindy Tsure has wondered about that before, andrew
  • [2009/09/10 17:12] reddot99 Republic: that could work,
  • [2009/09/10 17:12] Sindy Tsure: building up some sort of signature via prim sizes, shapes, etc
  • [2009/09/10 17:12] Charlette Proto: perhaps governance should be improved, after all it seems like the tech excuse is really eating into the whole "Your Imagination" thing ATM
  • [2009/09/10 17:13] Sasy Scarborough: Latif the people making content dont feel that way and are leaving in droves, when they keep leaving so will the people that buy their stuff, so i doubt many see it as a waste of time
  • [2009/09/10 17:13] Latif Khalifa: Sasy, FUD, nobody is leaving in droves
  • [2009/09/10 17:13] Latif Khalifa: and i create content every day
  • [2009/09/10 17:13] Techwolf Lupindo: Copy enforment and detection tools will go a LOT farther to curb the issue then trying to block it. No need to get into a arms race that will only benifinet the copiers as detection is made harder.
  • [2009/09/10 17:13] Andrew Linden: I agree that is is just an arms race. nevertheless, I think the race should be run some distance where it makes sense.
  • [2009/09/10 17:14] Latif Khalifa: hijacking every meeting with screams about "theft" is getting old
  • [2009/09/10 17:14] Charlette Proto: anyway a few of my tears will not hurt anyone and feelings are now known; "My Imagination; Anyone's world"
  • [2009/09/10 17:14] Sasy Scarborough: no one hijacked anything , Charlette asked a question
  • [2009/09/10 17:14] Latif Khalifa: Andrew, we have movie industry spending billions on blu ray encryption which took like 2 weeks to breake
  • [2009/09/10 17:14] Morgaine Dinova: Andrew: you've mentioned this at several meetings now. Is the previous policy of "No arms race" now dead in LL?
  • [2009/09/10 17:15] Andrew Linden: Yes Latif. I don't think the race should be run into the DRM zone.
  • [2009/09/10 17:15] reddot99 Republic: he's suggesting a easier system of reporting it perhaps?
  • [2009/09/10 17:15] Latif Khalifa: the more you try, the more people get motivated to break it just to show off
  • [2009/09/10 17:15] Latif Khalifa: this is social/legal/governence issue, not a technical one
  • [2009/09/10 17:15] Ardy Lay: Andrew, you mentioned takedown tools? Care to elaborate?
  • [2009/09/10 17:15] Techwolf Lupindo: Make it easer to report volations and start enforment on the sellers and land owners, not just return the vender to the owner to set it up somewhere else.
  • [2009/09/10 17:16] Charlette Proto: not an issue of commerce - simply a personal grief about not being able to have a unique identity - utopian you may say, but that is the way feelings go sorry
  • [2009/09/10 17:16] Morgaine Dinova: Andrew: is this your own initiative, or is it now official LL policy to enter the arms race?
  • [2009/09/10 17:16] Phantom Ninetails: I imagine this new detection idea would be easy enough to avoid by slightly varying prim sizes/rotations
  • [2009/09/10 17:16] Andrew Linden: I don't really want to talk much about takedown tools, mostly because they relate to lawsuits, and IANAL (I am not a lawyer).
  • [2009/09/10 17:16] Ardy Lay: Okay
  • [2009/09/10 17:16] Sindy Tsure: how about my favorite bug? one i hate even more than SVC-22
  • [2009/09/10 17:16] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22
  • [#SVC-22] Vehicles crossing region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
  • [2009/09/10 17:16] Ardy Lay: I shall assume the tools are NOT for residents to use directly.
  • [2009/09/10 17:16] reddot99 Republic: he never finished anything about detection,
  • [2009/09/10 17:17] Rex Cronon: i wonder how may people can right now break the encryption of a blue ray disk:)
  • [2009/09/10 17:17] Morgaine Dinova: I'm not hearing "pro arms race" from anyone except Andrew, so I'm assuming it's his own position.
  • [2009/09/10 17:17] Latif Khalifa: Rex anyone with a torrent client
  • [2009/09/10 17:17] Andrew Linden: However, there was a blog post a few weeks ago where LL promised to start working on some tools to help make DMCA and trademark takedowns easier.
  • [2009/09/10 17:17] Techwolf Lupindo: Sounds like the content creaters got together and now sue LL now that LL is liable for content due to xstreet purchise. :-)
  • [2009/09/10 17:17] Charlette Proto: good news Andrew
  • [2009/09/10 17:17] Panic Xenobuilder: detectios are useless if LL still fails to do anything when the criminal is found, IMHO LL should remove the account of copybotter, all ALT's, and all assets ever creted by this person
  • [2009/09/10 17:18] Arawn Spitteler: And this person is?
  • [2009/09/10 17:18] Sasy Scarborough agrees
  • [2009/09/10 17:18] Morgaine Dinova: Panic: I have a ridge to sell you
  • [2009/09/10 17:18] Morgaine Dinova: bridge
  • [2009/09/10 17:18] Charlette Proto: after all what is the point of BEING an AV when anyone can have a clone of you just to hurt your feelings
  • [2009/09/10 17:19] Techwolf Lupindo: First volation, warning and removel. Person may have got suckered into "busness in a box" deal. After that, then crank up the pushment to the level panic said.
  • [2009/09/10 17:19] reddot99 Republic: let andrew just finish for god's sake,
  • [2009/09/10 17:19] Sindy Tsure: must be careful with that.. if you had a full-perm prim from, say, andrew, you could make anything you want from it and it would always show him as creator.. even if you were the one making it into illegal copies of something
  • [2009/09/10 17:19] Latif Khalifa: Charlette oh I am sorry about your feelings
  • [2009/09/10 17:19] Andrew Linden: I think there already is a "multiple violation you get removed" policy
  • [2009/09/10 17:19] Latif Khalifa: but i'd rather keep this to the technical sim issues, and leave feelings to loved ones ;)
  • [2009/09/10 17:19] Andrew Linden: However the hoops that need to be hopped to file takedowns are not very easy.
  • [2009/09/10 17:19] Charlette Proto: hehe sure latif
  • [2009/09/10 17:19] Andrew Linden: LL is going to try to make them easier.
  • [2009/09/10 17:20] Sasy Scarborough: thats happened , I have had to gather info on a stolen item 'created' by a Linden , they linked to a root made by one
  • [2009/09/10 17:20] Arawn Spitteler: Have the sims been a bit strange, over the weekend?
  • [2009/09/10 17:20] Ardy Lay: I guess the problem is they just "respawn" and do it some more.
  • [2009/09/10 17:20] Morgaine Dinova: Charlette: you seem to think that virtual worlds are real worlds, and that digital good work like physical goods. Sorry to disappoint.
  • [2009/09/10 17:20] Rex Cronon: there is problem with copyrighting avatar shapes. what if i want to have long nose and somebody copyrighted it. does it mean ic an't have that:)
  • [2009/09/10 17:20] Sindy Tsure tries to work SVC-4616 into the conversation
  • [2009/09/10 17:20] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4616
  • [#SVC-4616] sim stalls when people who are a bit prim and/or script heavy TP in (or log in or fly in, etc)
  • [2009/09/10 17:20] Andrew Linden: I think ultimately it will be possible to instrument the viewer to auto-discover and generate your takedown request.
  • [2009/09/10 17:20] Andrew Linden: However that glorious future is a few years off.
  • [2009/09/10 17:20] Morgaine Dinova: Every session is turning into remedial education class in digital technology.
  • [2009/09/10 17:20] Panic Xenobuilder: i dont talk about accidentally buying a copybotted item, i mean actually copybotting something, jsut remove every asset created by this person
  • [2009/09/10 17:21] Charlette Proto: no Morgaine, but I like the utopian ideal of unique identity as an objective
  • [2009/09/10 17:21] Latif Khalifa: Andrew, how about we make sims not freeze up for 30-60 seconds first?
  • [2009/09/10 17:21] Sindy Tsure nods!
  • [2009/09/10 17:21] Arawn Spitteler: Don't our viewers copy everything seen?
  • [2009/09/10 17:21] Andrew Linden: Latif, I suspect and hope that that problem will be solved first.
  • [2009/09/10 17:21] Morgaine Dinova: Panic: WHAT person? Are you talking about some av called 666 with red horns? No problem, LL will delete him immediately.
  • [2009/09/10 17:22] Sindy Tsure: the sim freezing problem will be solved first, andrew??
  • [2009/09/10 17:22] Latif Khalifa: I hope very soon, because its a really pressing issue, and something that you can actually do something about
  • [2009/09/10 17:22] Arawn Spitteler: Are sim freezes essentially the same as Sim Crossing Issues?
  • [2009/09/10 17:22] reddot99 Republic: not entirely,
  • [2009/09/10 17:23] Andrew Linden: I'm just saying that the freezing sim problem is one that we're ramping up to fix. It's solution will progress in parallel with lots of other work. It may be completed before the takedown tools are done. But I speculate only.
  • [2009/09/10 17:23] Panic Xenobuilder: i said, when copybotter is caught, the orginal creator send AR and tells that this "iLag Xue" has copybotted my shit, here is proof, then LL know WHAT person to wipe
  • [2009/09/10 17:23] Sindy Tsure: it's really, REALLY an ugly problem, andrew.. it makes owning a club or any place that's busy really painful
  • [2009/09/10 17:23] Sindy Tsure: do you have any details on what causes it?
  • [2009/09/10 17:24] Sindy Tsure: it started recently.. late may or so..
  • [2009/09/10 17:24] Morgaine Dinova: I note for the record that Andrew has not answered even once any reference to Linden policy changing on entering the arms race, despite 3 attempts. Fair enough Andrew.
  • [2009/09/10 17:24] Latif Khalifa: starteed about 1.25 or so
  • [2009/09/10 17:24] Phantom Ninetails: I believe it started with server 1.26
  • [2009/09/10 17:24] Latif Khalifa: or 1.26 year abut there somewhere
  • [2009/09/10 17:24] Andrew Linden: Turns out there are several ways to "block" a simulator. Fewer now than there were a year ago.
  • [2009/09/10 17:24] Andrew Linden: One of the ways is to rez lots of objects at once.
  • [2009/09/10 17:24] Charlette Proto: agrees with Sindy and Phantom, the problem is recen and related to server releases not viewers
  • [2009/09/10 17:25] Sindy Tsure: "lots"?
  • [2009/09/10 17:25] Techwolf Lupindo: The othere is de-rez a lot of objects.
  • [2009/09/10 17:25] Andrew Linden: One way to do that is to wear lots of attachments and enter a region -- all the attachments get rezzed in a "monolithic" moment.
  • [2009/09/10 17:25] Arawn Spitteler: Andrew may be under an NDA not to disclose an NDA, but did mention, he's not commenting as he's Not A Lawyer
  • [2009/09/10 17:25] Latif Khalifa: Andrew, I would disagre that the situation is better now than a year ago
  • [2009/09/10 17:25] Latif Khalifa: problem with freezes got a lot worse since 1.26 server
  • [2009/09/10 17:25] Phantom Ninetails: This is a recent problem that came with 1.26 and happens with mono-scripted attachments entering the sim
  • [2009/09/10 17:26] reddot99 Republic: he said there are fewer ways, not that they havet gotten worse
  • [2009/09/10 17:26] Andrew Linden: Well, I just said the "number of ways" has decreased. Turns out there is a new "way" to do it.
  • [2009/09/10 17:26] Sindy Tsure: something changed this spring.. it suddently got a LOT worse
  • [2009/09/10 17:26] Andrew Linden: MONO scripts are costly to rez.
  • [2009/09/10 17:26] Charlette Proto: yes latif is right 1.26 is when it all started to freeze
  • [2009/09/10 17:26] Sasy Scarborough: my partner says that the sim freezes when i tp in due to my inventory , not what i wear
  • [2009/09/10 17:26] Andrew Linden: And people are using them more and more.
  • [2009/09/10 17:26] Sasy Scarborough: why are mono costly ?
  • [2009/09/10 17:26] reddot99 Republic: any weapon scriipter can tell yyou that andrew
  • [2009/09/10 17:26] Sasy Scarborough: i thought the whole point of them was better performance ?
  • [2009/09/10 17:26] Sindy Tsure does not believe that's it, andrew.. it really did get suddenly a lot worse this spring
  • [2009/09/10 17:26] Andrew Linden: Meanwhile, we have longer uptimes than every before, and there are either memory leaks or resource leaks that exacerbate the problem.
  • [2009/09/10 17:27] Phantom Ninetails: It's not just because it is mono. Mono scripts were alot easier to cross with before 1.26. Something was changed in 1.26 to make it alot worse.
  • [2009/09/10 17:27] Charlette Proto: client side scripts is the only way out I think since people have too many useless HUDs these days
  • [2009/09/10 17:27] Latif Khalifa: Andrew, yes, resource leaks make probles unbearabl after a busy sim is up for a week or so
  • [2009/09/10 17:27] Kaluura Boa: A better LSL so that we don't need a script in every prim is a way to explore too
  • [2009/09/10 17:27] Charlette Proto: even resize scripts for worn products could be moved to client-side HUDs
  • [2009/09/10 17:28] Andrew Linden: Hrm... Phantom you may be right. One of the other LL devs is starting a project to track down that performance problem.
  • [2009/09/10 17:28] Phantom Ninetails: Good to know
  • [2009/09/10 17:28] reddot99 Republic: which other?
  • [2009/09/10 17:28] Charlette Proto: true too Kaluura, LSL is poor at manipulating individual components in a linkset
  • [2009/09/10 17:28] Latif Khalifa: i there any way sim could split rezzing avatars and large linksets across several frames?
  • [2009/09/10 17:29] Andrew Linden: I won't mention his/her name yet. If they decide to announce their project then I'll talk about it.
  • [2009/09/10 17:29] Andrew Linden: However, I don't think they have office hours.
  • [2009/09/10 17:29] Charlette Proto: also the product developers have no way of knowing when they make lag monster offerings
  • [2009/09/10 17:29] Phantom Ninetails: Fair enough.
  • [2009/09/10 17:29] Latif Khalifa: Andrew, another thing to note, freezes get worse with high concurency on the sim, which leads me to believe that there might be some blocking backend call in there
  • [2009/09/10 17:29] Andrew Linden: That is true Charlette. That has happened to us.
  • [2009/09/10 17:29] Charlette Proto: per avatar script/sim cost display for everyone is the only way
  • [2009/09/10 17:30] Sindy Tsure: they still happen on an idle, nearly empty region though, latif
  • [2009/09/10 17:30] Latif Khalifa: high concurency on the grid -> more freezes i mean
  • [2009/09/10 17:30] Latif Khalifa: Sindy, I mispoke
  • [2009/09/10 17:30] Meeter: Timecheck : office hours is half over
  • [2009/09/10 17:30] Andrew Linden: There is no only way. There several ways to make progress here.
  • [2009/09/10 17:30] Latif Khalifa: high concurrwncy on the whole grid seems to freeze event emty region
  • [2009/09/10 17:31] Sindy Tsure: LL seems to have removed all the stats from secondlife.com.. is cuncurrancy up lately?
  • [2009/09/10 17:31] Sindy Tsure: *concurrancy
  • [2009/09/10 17:31] Andrew Linden: Did they remove the stats?
  • [2009/09/10 17:31] Sindy Tsure: yes
  • [2009/09/10 17:31] Andrew Linden: What's the old stats page?
  • [2009/09/10 17:31] Arawn Spitteler minds everyone of the great tragedy of SVC-93, in passing: NCI's Wednesday Show and Tell tried to happen in Kuula, but Kuula crashed for about half an hour.
  • [2009/09/10 17:31] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-93
  • [#SVC-93] llSetPrimitiveParams PRIM_ROTATION and llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
  • [2009/09/10 17:31] Andrew Linden: Or maybe they removed the stats completely. Hrm...
  • [2009/09/10 17:31] Sindy Tsure digs for the link
  • [2009/09/10 17:31] Charlette Proto: I meant that if one would know the lag factor one could develop better products and as a consumer avoid the poor product ATM it is impossible to know what causes the lag
  • [2009/09/10 17:31] reddot99 Republic: what is concurancy?
  • [2009/09/10 17:32] Andrew Linden: Thank you Arawn. And SVC-22
  • [2009/09/10 17:32] Charlette Proto: simultaneous occurence red
  • [2009/09/10 17:32] Charlette Proto: hehe
  • [2009/09/10 17:32] Andrew Linden: concurrency = number of people logged in at once
  • [2009/09/10 17:32] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2931
  • [#SVC-2931] llSetLinkPrimitiveParams content breakage, only moves agents 54 meters now
  • [2009/09/10 17:33] Arawn Spitteler: I think Concurrency is the number of Agents logged on, at one time. Someone else slipped SVC-22 into the conversation earlier, but SVC-2931 should hardly go down without mention
  • [2009/09/10 17:33] Sindy Tsure: http://secondlife.com/statistics/economy-data.php
  • [2009/09/10 17:33] Sindy Tsure: it got hobbled down to just raw xml late last year.. dunno if they're still being updated
  • [2009/09/10 17:33] Arawn Spitteler: Did others get the meeter response, before my own line? I didn't think Chat was subject to Client Side Slow.
  • [2009/09/10 17:33] Arawn Spitteler: [17:32] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2931
  • [#SVC-2931] llSetLinkPrimitiveParams content breakage, only moves agents 54 meters now
  • [17:33] Arawn Spitteler: I think Concurrency is the number of Agents logged on, at one time. Someone else slipped SVC-22 into the conversation earlier, but SVC-2931 should hardly go down without mention
  • [2009/09/10 17:33] Meeter: [#SVC-2931] llSetLinkPrimitiveParams content breakage, only moves agents 54 meters now
  • [2009/09/10 17:34] Sasy Scarborough has been experiencing a lot of chat lag the last few weeks
  • [2009/09/10 17:34] reddot99 Republic: i got it,
  • [2009/09/10 17:34] Charlette Proto: chat can cause clientside lag since the rendering of text in the Second Life™ client is very inefficient
  • [2009/09/10 17:35] reddot99 Republic: charlette, i wish to dispute the content creators and lag bomb assertation,
  • [2009/09/10 17:35] Andrew Linden: Hrm. Sincy there is a "logged in users" xls document on that page. Are you saying that they have not updated it?
  • [2009/09/10 17:35] Andrew Linden: Hrm... the filename doesn't show the date.
  • [2009/09/10 17:35] Charlette Proto: indeed I've never seen software except for Java that can be frozen by rendering text
  • [2009/09/10 17:35] Andrew Linden: s/Sincy/Sindy/
  • [2009/09/10 17:36] Ardy Lay: http://taterunino.net/statistical%20graphs.html
  • [2009/09/10 17:36] Rex Cronon: i have never seen java programs freeze just from rendering text
  • [2009/09/10 17:36] Sindy Tsure: dunno if they've updated it
  • [2009/09/10 17:36] Sindy Tsure found that link via google - i don't think there's a like to it from the new sl.com
  • [2009/09/10 17:36] reddot99 Republic: heh, i crashed adobe illustrater from rendering text
  • [2009/09/10 17:37] Charlette Proto: erd what aspect do you want to dispute? the fact that we have many non-programmers including scripts in the product or that many would like to make better products but can't
  • [2009/09/10 17:37] Phantom Ninetails: Second Life goes noticeably slow when recieving alot of spam with the communicate window open.
  • [2009/09/10 17:37] Andrew Linden: Yes, so you can see from Tateru Nino's graphs that the peak user count has been decreasing recently.
  • [2009/09/10 17:37] Sindy Tsure: and why all the stats are in that format instead of regular old text is beyond me..
  • [2009/09/10 17:37] Charlette Proto: well text in Illustartor is a complex object not screen font like in Second Life™
  • [2009/09/10 17:37] Ardy Lay: Look at signups per day.
  • [2009/09/10 17:37] Andrew Linden: Some of that corresponds with a policy change regarding bots.
  • [2009/09/10 17:38] Sindy Tsure hates to go broken record but a lot of it is svc-4616 and friends.. i know lots of people who log in far less often because it's just painful
  • [2009/09/10 17:38] reddot99 Republic: if you watch you can tell what causes lag and what doesnt,
  • [2009/09/10 17:38] Sindy Tsure: * SVC-4616 m greeter
  • [2009/09/10 17:39] Sindy Tsure: d'oh.. it doesn't like me any more..
  • [2009/09/10 17:39] Sindy Tsure: heya mari
  • [2009/09/10 17:39] Marianne McCann: Hiya
  • [2009/09/10 17:39] Arawn Spitteler: I think the seat that'll rez to my right is open
  • [2009/09/10 17:39] Sindy Tsure: *meeter
  • [2009/09/10 17:40] Techwolf Lupindo: consurrseny will drop as teh traffic bot issues it slowly taken care of,.
  • [2009/09/10 17:40] Charlette Proto: lower concurency is also a result of the increased minimum PC spec requirement eg many laptops are out now and it is less likely people will buy Uber game PCs to chat with friends
  • [2009/09/10 17:40] Techwolf Lupindo: Hottest selling laptop is the notebooks.
  • [2009/09/10 17:41] Techwolf Lupindo: or netbooks as some call them
  • [2009/09/10 17:41] Sindy Tsure thinks we broke andrew
  • [2009/09/10 17:41] Andrew Linden: Yes, I don't think it is all a decrease in # of bots. Hopefully we can turn that around.
  • [2009/09/10 17:41] Andrew Linden: Traditionally SL has grown primarily because of its technology, rather than marketing.
  • [2009/09/10 17:41] Arawn Spitteler: I'm still on Extreme Graphics Chip-Set, but I know a lot of non-profits haven't graphics cards either
  • [2009/09/10 17:42] reddot99 Republic: hah, i have the same laptop from when i started sl, and it had a crap graphics chip then,
  • [2009/09/10 17:42] Charlette Proto: agree, bots have been killed by age verification in sex shops and hardware requirements have killed the rest of the missing logins
  • [2009/09/10 17:42] Arawn Spitteler: Actually, I'd like every content creater to click a button for EGA simulation
  • [2009/09/10 17:42] Andrew Linden: However I think the direction of LL's efforts have shifted in the marketing direction recently, and has drifted a little from focusing on the technology.
  • [2009/09/10 17:42] reddot99 Republic: ega?
  • [2009/09/10 17:42] Techwolf Lupindo: Enhanced Graphics Adapter
  • [2009/09/10 17:42] Arawn Spitteler: Enhanced Graphics Arrayu, you have to be over thirty to remember it
  • [2009/09/10 17:43] Andrew Linden: There is a bit of recent evidence that the collective conciousness will shift toward the technology a bit soon.
  • [2009/09/10 17:43] Sindy Tsure just wants stuff to work
  • [2009/09/10 17:43] Sindy Tsure: it was good, really good, early spring.. it has not been good since
  • [2009/09/10 17:44] Latif Khalifa: i honestly hope so, more tech, less marketing focus
  • [2009/09/10 17:44] Charlette Proto: in my view multiple viewer sessions on one PC (bots) are irrelevant as an objective, but a reasonable minimum spec (notebook) to play Second Life™ should not be overlooked to facilitate social networking in SL
  • [2009/09/10 17:44] reddot99 Republic: i'mon a graphics card intel claims is made for 3d stuff, biggest load of crap i ever saw, >.>
  • [2009/09/10 17:44] Sindy Tsure: the question is WHEN was it made for 3d stuff?
  • [2009/09/10 17:45] Arawn Spitteler: My mother just got a mininotebook, so she could relax on the internet.
  • [2009/09/10 17:45] Andrew Linden: ah yes, the Intel "extreme graphics" chipset -- what an unfortunate marketing endeavor
  • [2009/09/10 17:45] reddot99 Republic: intel gma 950
  • [2009/09/10 17:45] Marianne McCann: I'm on an ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO, but also on a Mac, so a lot of the cooler SL graphics are a no go for me. Teach me to have a computer over 1 year old
  • [2009/09/10 17:45] Arawn Spitteler: My Dell is a 2004; Jesus Christ was born that year
  • [2009/09/10 17:45] Charlette Proto: red current Intel GPU can do Second Life™ reasonably well, but the rest of notebooks (eg RAM CPU) must be top spec
  • [2009/09/10 17:46] Sasy Scarborough: lmao
  • [2009/09/10 17:46] Sindy Tsure has a hard time letting go of SVC-4616.. if you need somebody to demo it, i'd be more than happy, andrew
  • [2009/09/10 17:46] reddot99 Republic: it's from what, 07?
  • [2009/09/10 17:46] Techwolf Lupindo: I've seen a few jira reports using the intel graphic chipset. On linux, the drivers are opensource and therefore can be optimaizeed along wiht the SL client to get desent performace.
  • [2009/09/10 17:46] Arawn Spitteler: What's SVC-4616
  • [2009/09/10 17:46] Andrew Linden: ok thanks for the offer Sindy. I suspect that one is easy to reproduce.
  • [2009/09/10 17:46] Sindy Tsure: sim locking up when people TP in
  • [2009/09/10 17:46] Marianne McCann: Ugh, that one is bad, Sindy
  • [2009/09/10 17:47] Andrew Linden: huh... not enough votes on that one Sindy
  • [2009/09/10 17:47] Sindy Tsure is really unhappy it doesn't seem to be a priority, andrew.. i don't want to yell at you - if you can tell me who i should yell at, i would be happy to
  • [2009/09/10 17:47] Andrew Linden: normally I don't pay attention to votes, but some Linden's do
  • [2009/09/10 17:47] Arawn Spitteler: What's the address?
  • [2009/09/10 17:47] Marianne McCann: How many does it need?
  • [2009/09/10 17:47] reddot99 Republic: marianne, when you turn shaders on, whats your frame rate at?
  • [2009/09/10 17:47] Latif Khalifa: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4196
  • [2009/09/10 17:47] Latif Khalifa: 186 votes
  • [2009/09/10 17:47] Andrew Linden: The more the better, for those who pay attention.
  • [2009/09/10 17:47] Meeter: [#SVC-4196] Avatar entering sim or rezzing object causes scripts to stop processing and queing events for 3-7 seconds
  • [2009/09/10 17:48] Sindy Tsure: sounds similar
  • [2009/09/10 17:48] Marianne McCann: 20
  • [2009/09/10 17:48] reddot99 Republic: that has a bunch of duplicates from the sound of it
  • [2009/09/10 17:48] Ardy Lay: Both are linked to SVC-3895
  • [2009/09/10 17:48] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895
  • [#SVC-3895] Rezzing Mono scripted object cripples sim FPS
  • [2009/09/10 17:48] Arawn Spitteler's going to freeze, while he opens that window to vote.
  • [2009/09/10 17:48] Latif Khalifa: except it' not 3-7 seconds, it can be up to 60 sec
  • [2009/09/10 17:48] Charlette Proto: each av should have a ceiling of sim load!
  • [2009/09/10 17:48] Marianne McCann: Well, 20 here. Usually higher, but a lot of agents and all
  • [2009/09/10 17:48] Ardy Lay: 554 votes
  • [2009/09/10 17:48] Sindy Tsure does not believe it's the mono sig verification stuff
  • [2009/09/10 17:48] Andrew Linden: Oh ok I see, the votes are spread out between the duplicates.
  • [2009/09/10 17:49] Ardy Lay: Yes Andrew
  • [2009/09/10 17:49] Andrew Linden: Then it is just a contest of bug titles.
  • [2009/09/10 17:49] Ardy Lay: Hehe
  • [2009/09/10 17:49] reddot99 Republic: without shaders on im at .07 at the moment
  • [2009/09/10 17:49] Latif Khalifa: its about 1000 votes on the sim freezing bugs
  • [2009/09/10 17:49] Sindy Tsure thinks there are several problems
  • [2009/09/10 17:49] Marianne McCann: bigger*
  • [2009/09/10 17:49] Ardy Lay: Right. We don't know wat the cause is, really. Just what we do to trigger it.
  • [2009/09/10 17:49] Marianne McCann votes for SVC-4616 and asks one of her vigger groups to do the same
  • [2009/09/10 17:49] Charlette Proto: there should be no way of freezing the sim simply to grief users with crap, give each av a proportional to population load and no more
  • [2009/09/10 17:49] reddot99 Republic: erm, 0.7
  • [2009/09/10 17:49] Charlette Proto: wow text stuck
  • [2009/09/10 17:50] Sindy Tsure: you just saw the bug we're talking about, charlette
  • [2009/09/10 17:50] Latif Khalifa: talking about freezes.... lol
  • [2009/09/10 17:50] Sindy Tsure: that happens about once every minute or so on my home
  • [2009/09/10 17:50] Latif Khalifa: 20s freeze here just now
  • [2009/09/10 17:50] Sindy Tsure: even right after it restarts
  • [2009/09/10 17:50] Techwolf Lupindo: I wonder if andrew is watching the sim here now to see the frezzes?
  • [2009/09/10 17:51] Charlette Proto: wow my Mystitool is showing 2 Morgaine Dinovas
  • [2009/09/10 17:51] Charlette Proto: I love Morgaine but don't need 2 of you hon
  • [2009/09/10 17:51] Sindy Tsure: putting on weight, morgaine?
  • [2009/09/10 17:51] Sindy Tsure ducks!
  • [2009/09/10 17:51] Sasy Scarborough: she has that much personality is all
  • [2009/09/10 17:51] Latif Khalifa: its a bug in llSensor when it gives same avatar twice if two avatars are siting on the same linkset
  • [2009/09/10 17:52] Rex Cronon: somebody might be cloning morgaine:)
  • [2009/09/10 17:52] Ardy Lay: Will the real Morgaine Dinova please stand up?
  • [2009/09/10 17:52] Ardy Lay: :-)
  • [2009/09/10 17:52] Sasy Scarborough: lol
  • [2009/09/10 17:52] Twisted Laws: chairs aren't linked ^^
  • [2009/09/10 17:52] Techwolf Lupindo: I see only one Morgaine on my client side avatar list. (incorrectry call Radar)
  • [2009/09/10 17:52] Marianne McCann gets five extra votes on SVC-4616, and will continue to shop it around
  • [2009/09/10 17:52] Sindy Tsure: ty for the vote btw, mari :)
  • [2009/09/10 17:52] Sasy Scarborough: lol Techwolf
  • [2009/09/10 17:52] Charlette Proto: both at 1m from me so it is the same av picked up twice
  • [2009/09/10 17:52] Phantom Ninetails: I've noticed that sensors (only llsensorrepeat) will sometimes replace one result in detection with a person across the border.
  • [2009/09/10 17:53] Sindy Tsure thinks she will spam the forums about that one
  • [2009/09/10 17:53] Andrew Linden voted
  • [2009/09/10 17:53] Sindy Tsure: woot! a linden vote!! that's worth 50 resident votes, right??
  • [2009/09/10 17:53] Charlette Proto: TD is 0.99 so there is no reason for the HUD to lag etc and it is still showing 2 avies
  • [2009/09/10 17:54] Charlette Proto: agrees with Sindy on Linden votes
  • [2009/09/10 17:54] Ardy Lay: I just ran a one-time scan and found 1 blue kitty.
  • [2009/09/10 17:54] Phantom Ninetails: I'm not seeing any duplicates of the 12 nearest people to me
  • [2009/09/10 17:55] Ardy Lay: The script running llSensor() should index and de-dupe by key.
  • [2009/09/10 17:55] Andrew Linden: I think I mentioned that LL is in the beginning of a hiring sprint for developers. I'm hoping to get some more devs to help start fixing bugs in the next couple months.
  • [2009/09/10 17:55] Charlette Proto: wow i restarted the Mysti scanner and it still sees 2 Morgaines
  • [2009/09/10 17:55] Ardy Lay: You have to run multiple times to get more then 16 avatars listed.
  • [2009/09/10 17:55] Panic Xenobuilder: just send IM to the creator of mystitool and ask her to fix it
  • [2009/09/10 17:55] Meeter: Timecheck : office hours is almost over
  • [2009/09/10 17:55] Sasy Scarborough: that's great Andrew
  • [2009/09/10 17:56] Rex Cronon: your scanner might have a bug:)
  • [2009/09/10 17:56] Latif Khalifa: SVC-3895, SVC-4196 and SVC-4616 have about 1000 votes among them
  • [2009/09/10 17:56] Sindy Tsure: there are certainly a few extra people looking for jobs lately.. hopefully you score some serious talent
  • [2009/09/10 17:56] Charlette Proto: Mystitool is one of the cleanest LSL scanners about
  • [2009/09/10 17:56] Sindy Tsure: not that you don't already have some.. just sayin' more is good
  • [2009/09/10 17:56] Meeter: [#SVC-4616] sim stalls when people who are a bit prim and/or script heavy TP in (or log in or fly in, etc)
  • [2009/09/10 17:56] Arawn Spitteler wonders that he only saw 33 votes, when he left http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4616
  • [2009/09/10 17:57] Sindy Tsure: rl calls...
  • [2009/09/10 17:57] Latif Khalifa: Linden Lab is so old fashioned when it comes to hiring, they still want you to be employed in one of their offices, ironic for a virtual worlds comapany
  • [2009/09/10 17:57] Ardy Lay: Don't forget SVC-4739 at 22 votes
  • [2009/09/10 17:57] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4739
  • [#SVC-4739] Sim freezes each time someone tp in or tp out, log in/log out - for a couple seconds untill new awatar arrives sim or leaves sim
  • [2009/09/10 17:57] Phantom Ninetails: When I first opened that issue (today) I saw 23. It is now at 34
  • [2009/09/10 17:57] Arawn Spitteler: Why does the meeter anticipate what I'll say, and ignores Sindy? That's blatantly biassed
  • [2009/09/10 17:57] Sindy Tsure drops sheeps on rex & arawn then runs away
  • [2009/09/10 17:57] Sindy Tsure: cyas!
  • [2009/09/10 17:57] Sasy Scarborough: lol
  • [2009/09/10 17:58] Rex Cronon: tc
  • [2009/09/10 17:58] Arawn Spitteler: Sheep?
  • [2009/09/10 17:58] Phantom Ninetails: If you type in the full URL to an issue it will respond. If you type in just the issue number it will only talk if the issue has not been mentioned recently.
  • [2009/09/10 17:58] Charlette Proto: agrees with Latif - I'm a master of design science (design computing) did VW etc and User Experience and LL areen't interested
  • [2009/09/10 17:58] Latif Khalifa: [17:58] Dilation HUD: 7.66 freeze
  • [17:58] Dilation HUD: 12.4 freeze
  • [2009/09/10 17:59] Ardy Lay: From sheep?
  • [2009/09/10 17:59] reddot99 Republic: charelette, twisted's radar is pretty clean,
  • [2009/09/10 17:59] reddot99 Republic: sindy tping ouut,
  • [2009/09/10 17:59] Andrew Linden: Yeah, there aren't very many remote positions available for developers.
  • [2009/09/10 17:59] Arawn Spitteler wanted to try riding one, but didn't see
  • [2009/09/10 17:59] Latif Khalifa: simple script for detecting and printing freezes
  • [2009/09/10 17:59] Latif Khalifa: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4196?focusedCommentId=120005&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#action_120005
  • [2009/09/10 17:59] Meeter: [#SVC-4196] Avatar entering sim or rezzing object causes scripts to stop processing and queing events for 3-7 seconds
  • [2009/09/10 17:59] Charlette Proto: BTW finally one of Morgaines has left the sim
  • [2009/09/10 18:00] reddot99 Republic: lol
  • [2009/09/10 18:00] Rex Cronon: the clone is gone:)
  • [2009/09/10 18:00] Techwolf Lupindo: Lots of call centers are going to remote homes.
  • [2009/09/10 18:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to Linden office hours
  • [2009/09/10 18:01] Morgaine Dinova: One of my what?
  • [2009/09/10 18:01] reddot99 Republic: andrew, could you try to convince management to open moure remote positions?
  • [2009/09/10 18:01] Andrew Linden: reddot99, I'll raise the question yes.
  • [2009/09/10 18:01] Charlette Proto: Andrew I was hoping to work on User Experience Design from the inworld perspective, but it seems BigSpaceship are more qualified despite the fact that I've been inworld for over 2 years 12 hours a day minimum
  • [2009/09/10 18:02] Andrew Linden: I can think of one good reason for it:
  • [2009/09/10 18:02] Marianne McCann: Hmn... stuck in type...
  • [2009/09/10 18:02] Techwolf Lupindo: A lot of simple QA could be done remote.
  • [2009/09/10 18:02] reddot99 Republic: i know a few folks whoo havent applied about working for ll for the reason no offices are nearby,
  • [2009/09/10 18:02] Morgaine Dinova: Charlette, I just read back. Your viewer is screwed.
  • [2009/09/10 18:02] Andrew Linden: The truth of the matter is that is is a little difficult to build, test, and access the server code remotely
  • [2009/09/10 18:03] Marianne McCann: reddot - I have an office nearby, and was told they were not hiring in my area.
  • [2009/09/10 18:03] Sasy Scarborough: lol Morgaine
  • [2009/09/10 18:03] Techwolf Lupindo: I applied for one job listed on the website and got a reject mail withen an hour...:(
  • [2009/09/10 18:03] Andrew Linden: You need a really high bandwidth connection, and some VPN magic.
  • [2009/09/10 18:03] Marianne McCann: (SF East Bay)
  • [2009/09/10 18:03] Sasy Scarborough: aww Techwolf, they dont know what they are missing
  • [2009/09/10 18:03] reddot99 Republic: you mean like a fiber line i assume?
  • [2009/09/10 18:03] Charlette Proto: Andrew, but User Experience design has nothing to do with code
  • [2009/09/10 18:03] Andrew Linden: It is easier to do SL viewer development remotely.
  • [2009/09/10 18:04] Andrew Linden: Yes Charlett, and the truth of the matter is that we have some remote devs who work on the viewer.
  • [2009/09/10 18:04] reddot99 Republic: hence the proliferation of open source mods?
  • [2009/09/10 18:04] Andrew Linden: But few remote server devs.
  • [2009/09/10 18:04] Andrew Linden: And right now we're pretty much only hiring server devs.
  • [2009/09/10 18:05] Charlette Proto: anyway BigSpaceship are a boardroom collaboration party and don't work in LL offices, so my issue really has more to do with design outsourcing than tele-working I suppose
  • [2009/09/10 18:05] Morgaine Dinova: And you'll need a whole lot more of them, now that you're entering the arms race.
  • [2009/09/10 18:06] Andrew Linden: Alas, I'm going to have to run.
  • [2009/09/10 18:06] Andrew Linden: Thanks for attending everyone.
  • [2009/09/10 18:06] Phantom Ninetails: Fare well Andrew
  • [2009/09/10 18:06] reddot99 Republic: see ya andew
  • [2009/09/10 18:06] Marianne McCann: Have fun, Andrew!
  • [2009/09/10 18:06] Sasy Scarborough: thank you Andrew
  • [2009/09/10 18:06] Ardy Lay: See you next time Andrew.
  • [2009/09/10 18:06] Morgaine Dinova: Cyu Andrew. Very sad to see you play politics.
  • [2009/09/10 18:06] Latif Khalifa: take care andrew
  • [2009/09/10 18:06] reddot99 Republic: kill some more bugs
  • [2009/09/10 18:06] Latif Khalifa: hehe
  • [2009/09/10 18:07] reddot99 Republic: he never said he was entering it,
  • [2009/09/10 18:07] Andrew Linden: Tomorrow I'll work on bugs. It is the end of a long day.
  • [2009/09/10 18:07] Rex Cronon: tc andrew
  • [2009/09/10 18:07] Latif Khalifa: good bug hunting, especially the freeze ones
  • [2009/09/10 18:07] Charlette Proto: byee Andrew, have a good weekend when you get there
  • [2009/09/10 18:07] reddot99 Republic: get some sleep,
  • [2009/09/10 18:07] Sasy Scarborough: take care all and have a nice day/night
  • [2009/09/10 18:07] Psi Merlin: Thanks Andrew
  • [2009/09/10 18:07] Andrew Linden: laters
  • [2009/09/10 18:07] Morgaine Dinova: Get recruiting, you're going to need it
  • [2009/09/10 18:08] Morgaine Dinova: Well well, that was interesting.
  • [2009/09/10 18:08] Charlette Proto: agree with Morgaine, LL need fresh people wanting to do things right and not resigned to internal politics
  • [2009/09/10 18:08] Kaluura Boa: Wake up, kitty, it's over... :P
  • [2009/09/10 18:08] Charlette Proto: hehe
  • [2009/09/10 18:08] Phantom Ninetails: I suppose I shall head back to one of my favourite sandboxes now
  • [2009/09/10 18:08] Morgaine Dinova: Yep, LL has just killed itself. Wierd
  • [2009/09/10 18:09] reddot99 Republic: provided its still there
  • [2009/09/10 18:09] Ardy Lay: http://www.visipics.info/
  • [2009/09/10 18:09] Panic Xenobuilder: im awake, trying to find release notes for 1.3 but it seems they are not there yet
  • [2009/09/10 18:09] reddot99 Republic: they arent
  • [2009/09/10 18:09] Morgaine Dinova: Well it's not dead yet, and there's plenty of time for a change of CEO. But they've certainly pointed themselves at the cliff edge.
  • [2009/09/10 18:09] Ardy Lay: That's sort of thing is really handy for finding duplicated images.
  • [2009/09/10 18:09] Latif Khalifa: well when you have enough of the screamers "omg they steal my content" its bound to derail the agenda
  • [2009/09/10 18:09] Morgaine Dinova: Aye
  • [2009/09/10 18:10] Twisted Laws: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.30
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