User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 09 15

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  • [2009/09/15 11:00] Meeter: Welcome to Linden office hours
  • [2009/09/15 11:00] Uni Ninetails: With narey a Linden in sight i twas welcomed my a sleekit voice from a strnage box
  • [2009/09/15 11:01] Helena Lycia: Ooo there's a Linden
  • [2009/09/15 11:01] Uni Ninetails: ah there we go
  • [2009/09/15 11:01] Helena Lycia: Hello
  • [2009/09/15 11:01] Simon Linden: hello
  • [2009/09/15 11:01] Helena Lycia: And another... Hello
  • [2009/09/15 11:01] Uni Ninetails: Hey Andrew & Simon
  • [2009/09/15 11:01] NikoKito Aries: hola buenas noches, bienvenidos
  • [2009/09/15 11:01] NikoKito Aries: (es->en) hi good evening, welcome
  • [2009/09/15 11:01] Sebastean Steamweaver turns his draw distance down to 24 to help things rez faster
  • [2009/09/15 11:01] Melchizedek Blauvelt: hi all
  • [2009/09/15 11:02] NikoKito Aries: welcome Melchi
  • [2009/09/15 11:02] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
  • [2009/09/15 11:02] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hi Simon, Andrew
  • [2009/09/15 11:02] Helena Lycia: Hello Rex
  • [2009/09/15 11:02] NikoKito Aries: hello REx
  • [2009/09/15 11:02] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hi All
  • [2009/09/15 11:03] Uni Ninetails: ahoyhoy
  • [2009/09/15 11:03] Rex Cronon: hi helena, nikokito
  • [2009/09/15 11:03] Rex Cronon: hi
  • [2009/09/15 11:03] Rex Cronon: on my first try to tp here i was logged out
  • [2009/09/15 11:03] Andrew Linden: Ok, hello everyone.
  • [2009/09/15 11:03] Rex Cronon: is that normal?
  • [2009/09/15 11:03] Sebastean Steamweaver: Aimee is in teeny form
  • [2009/09/15 11:03] Rex Cronon: hi andrew
  • [2009/09/15 11:04] NikoKito Aries: hola Andrew
  • [2009/09/15 11:04] NikoKito Aries: (es->en) Hi Andrew
  • [2009/09/15 11:04] Andrew Linden: Looks like server-1.30 is still on schedule. The pilot roll happens tomorrow.
  • [2009/09/15 11:05] Andrew Linden: It will sit a week, then the deploy will proceed to the rest of the world, over two days.
  • [2009/09/15 11:05] Ardy Lay: A week this time? Okay.
  • [2009/09/15 11:05] Sebastean Steamweaver: Have a link to the changelog?
  • [2009/09/15 11:05] Latif Khalifa: is changelog still happening
  • [2009/09/15 11:05] Andrew Linden: SVC-22 is not fixed in server-1.30
  • [2009/09/15 11:05] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22
  • [#SVC-22] Vehicles crossing region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
  • [2009/09/15 11:05] Andrew Linden pre-empts Arawn on -22
  • [2009/09/15 11:05] Latif Khalifa: hahaha
  • [2009/09/15 11:06] Sebastean Steamweaver: You forgot one
  • [2009/09/15 11:06] Sebastean Steamweaver: SVC-93
  • [2009/09/15 11:06] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-93
  • [#SVC-93] llSetPrimitiveParams PRIM_ROTATION and llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
  • [2009/09/15 11:06] Andrew Linden: changelog Latif?
  • [2009/09/15 11:06] Ardy Lay: Release notes?
  • [2009/09/15 11:06] Latif Khalifa: yeah that
  • [2009/09/15 11:06] Andrew Linden: oh
  • [2009/09/15 11:06] Helena Lycia: I don't think SVC-22 matters at the moment - it's practically impossible to get vehicles across borders currently in my personal experience
  • [2009/09/15 11:06] Arawn Spitteler's satisfied, that others ar learning: I've still got SVC-2931 in reserve. Is SVC-22 the sailboat problem, or is that something new?
  • [2009/09/15 11:06] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2931
  • [#SVC-2931] llSetLinkPrimitiveParams content breakage, only moves agents 54 meters now
  • [2009/09/15 11:06] Sebastean Steamweaver: Helena, mentioning those two is just tradition ;)
  • [2009/09/15 11:07] Uni Ninetails: hmm i spent a whole sunday sailing in Blake sea with only 3 failure but there was a bad sim involved
  • [2009/09/15 11:07] Helena Lycia: And me mentioning naff border crossings is common with me too
  • [2009/09/15 11:07] Arawn Spitteler: Would ou like to see if this one makes the crossings, Helena?
  • [2009/09/15 11:07] Andrew Linden: A quick google search provide this link: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.30
  • [2009/09/15 11:07] Helena Lycia: I had over a 50% failure rate over the weekend and Monday
  • [2009/09/15 11:07] Andrew Linden: however it is still loading for me
  • [2009/09/15 11:07] Andrew Linden: ah there it is
  • [2009/09/15 11:08] Andrew Linden: huh... not much info there
  • [2009/09/15 11:08] Sebastean Steamweaver: Yeah, that's why we were asking, hehe.
  • [2009/09/15 11:08] Latif Khalifa: its a bit of a stretch to call that release notes lol
  • [2009/09/15 11:08] Uni Ninetails: Stability & back-end service improvements... such as?
  • [2009/09/15 11:09] Sebastean Steamweaver: Well, 'Back-End" I think implies, "Stuff we don't talk about."
  • [2009/09/15 11:09] Andrew Linden: Yeah Latif, you're right
  • [2009/09/15 11:09] Andrew Linden: I wonder who has been editing that page...
  • [2009/09/15 11:09] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Fisher, seat's between Uni and Mel
  • [2009/09/15 11:09] Simon Linden: "Back end" is more "stuff you can't see"
  • [2009/09/15 11:10] Helena Lycia: Will we see *any* improvements from that?
  • [2009/09/15 11:10] Sebastean Steamweaver: For the purpose of release notes, though, I mean, stuff that isn't mentioned.
  • [2009/09/15 11:10] Latif Khalifa: and it only mentions changes during the test process, nothing about delte with 1.27
  • [2009/09/15 11:10] Uni Ninetails: even if its somthing you dont like discussing as backend just a cague hint would be better.... like is it to do with tps or textures or whatever
  • [2009/09/15 11:10] Fisher Linden: Thanks!
  • [2009/09/15 11:10] Uni Ninetails: *vague
  • [2009/09/15 11:10] Simon Linden: I agree, more info would be more interesting
  • [2009/09/15 11:10] Sebastean Steamweaver: Well, they do mention the specific changes to TPs and such.
  • [2009/09/15 11:11] Uni Ninetails: nods
  • [2009/09/15 11:11] Andrew Linden: Dante and Lil Linden have been editing that page. They are the "release managers"
  • [2009/09/15 11:11] Helena Lycia: Yeah but so much seems to be naff with SL atm, it would be nice to seem some good news
  • [2009/09/15 11:11] Andrew Linden: Dante is moving to do something else and Lil is taking his place.
  • [2009/09/15 11:11] Uni Ninetails: Well when the pissing and moaning starts when the grid gets rebooted its ncie to be able to say, but it should improve x, y and z
  • [2009/09/15 11:12] Andrew Linden: Well, I'll try to update that page with some real info later today, but can't do it until after lunch.
  • [2009/09/15 11:12] Sebastean Steamweaver: I guess I'm just used to a few pages of content to sink my teeth into, hehe.
  • [2009/09/15 11:12] Andrew Linden: I'm busy until then.
  • [2009/09/15 11:12] Sebastean Steamweaver: We appreciate you taking the time for office hours Andrew.
  • [2009/09/15 11:12] Penkerton Hax: hi all, i'm nub
  • [2009/09/15 11:12] Sebastean Steamweaver: And Simon/Fisher, of course.
  • [2009/09/15 11:12] NikoKito Aries: welcome
  • [2009/09/15 11:13] Rex Cronon: hi
  • [2009/09/15 11:14] Andrew Linden: Bummer, my most recent bug fix branch for 1.30 was rejected because they didn't have time to include it. So the only bug fix branch there is old... the one that didn't make it for 1.27.
  • [2009/09/15 11:14] Simon Linden: I don't have much news ... I know the 'adult transition' period is ending with the 1.30 push, so 1.23 viewers and later will start working the way you'd expect with search and stuff after that's fully deployed
  • [2009/09/15 11:14] Uni Ninetails: hmm that sucks Andrew
  • [2009/09/15 11:15] Penkerton Hax: please, tell me a subject of conversation in one word?
  • [2009/09/15 11:15] Latif Khalifa: how would you expect them to work SImon? that is different than now
  • [2009/09/15 11:15] Sebastean Steamweaver: Andrew, concerning text on a prim face and llGet/SetObjectSize (or any of the ones on MISC-3077) has there been any internal discussion on those, or even progress?
  • [2009/09/15 11:15] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-3077
  • [#MISC-3077] Meta-Issue: List of Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions With Large Returns
  • [2009/09/15 11:15] Andrew Linden: No progress on those Sebastean.
  • [2009/09/15 11:15] Sebastean Steamweaver: But perhaps maybe some discussion/
  • [2009/09/15 11:15] Andrew Linden: Media on a prim is going to happen near the end of the year, or maybe beginning of next, I think.
  • [2009/09/15 11:16] Andrew Linden: However the "text on a prim" is a LSL or server feature that we talked about a week or two ago, right?
  • [2009/09/15 11:16] Sebastean Steamweaver: Media on a prim isn't the same thing, though, as simply text on a prim.
  • [2009/09/15 11:16] Sebastean Steamweaver: Yeah
  • [2009/09/15 11:16] Techwolf Lupindo: Zindra would love to have media on a prim. :-)
  • [2009/09/15 11:16] Sebastean Steamweaver: Let me pull up the JIRA
  • [2009/09/15 11:16] Andrew Linden: Something like what is currently supported by OpenSim.
  • [2009/09/15 11:16] Sebastean Steamweaver: SVC-4715
  • [2009/09/15 11:16] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4715
  • [#SVC-4715] llRenderText - Rendering Text on a Prim
  • [2009/09/15 11:16] Sebastean Steamweaver: Though I was also going to change that issue, to also include a parameter for a "backround texture"
  • [2009/09/15 11:17] Andrew Linden: Hrm... it would be interesting to implement text on a prim if only to actually get some feature flow from OpenSim.
  • [2009/09/15 11:17] Latif Khalifa: implement megasims then :D
  • [2009/09/15 11:17] Andrew Linden: I need more copious spare time.
  • [2009/09/15 11:17] Sebastean Steamweaver: Andrew, off hand, I can think of at least 20 different things that would use it.
  • [2009/09/15 11:17] Uni Ninetails: i was thiking megasims but i bit my tongue :P~
  • [2009/09/15 11:17] Sebastean Steamweaver: And I know there are more.
  • [2009/09/15 11:18] Techwolf Lupindo: megasims would fill the void between the contents on SL now. Just think of what the sailers could do with that. :-)
  • [2009/09/15 11:18] Simon Linden: I wonder if there's some flavor of media-on-a-prim that would also get the text feature
  • [2009/09/15 11:18] Sebastean Steamweaver: Text on a Prim is really needed for just about anything that needs frequently changing text. I have something I'm working on that uses a prim for a 'promp" and all of those textures have to be static.
  • [2009/09/15 11:18] Sebastean Steamweaver: Simon, that wouldn't really work.
  • [2009/09/15 11:19] Sebastean Steamweaver: Media is far too "heavy" of a resource for what its needed for.
  • [2009/09/15 11:19] Sebastean Steamweaver: Things like numbers on a HUD, changing text on a HUD prompt like I just mentioned
  • [2009/09/15 11:19] Uni Ninetails: god vendors without bloddy hovertext... thatd be heaven
  • [2009/09/15 11:19] Sebastean Steamweaver: Games with changing text on them.
  • [2009/09/15 11:19] Liisa Runo: yea, im for simple text-on a prim too, much more usefull in my hands than media
  • [2009/09/15 11:19] Sebastean Steamweaver: Vendors are an EXCELLENT example
  • [2009/09/15 11:19] Uni Ninetails: no more hovertext cutting though prims
  • [2009/09/15 11:19] Latif Khalifa: creating texture server side is very heavy too, it would be easier if the client could render html on a face and then server would send just the html
  • [2009/09/15 11:20] Arawn Spitteler: Text against surfaces?
  • [2009/09/15 11:20] Sebastean Steamweaver: Yes Arawn
  • [2009/09/15 11:20] Melchizedek Blauvelt: Indeed Uni, hovertext is a pain for disabled people in SL too
  • [2009/09/15 11:20] Techwolf Lupindo: For text on a prim, something aloing the line of being able to split/combine a texture face to have more then one texture on a face and LSL define what textrue goes where...don't know how hard to implemet that.
  • [2009/09/15 11:20] Simon Linden: Right, I'm just brainstorming ideas on how it might work under an existing framework, and likely to get done sooner, than as a whole new feature
  • [2009/09/15 11:20] Sebastean Steamweaver: Latif, the thing is it needs to be able to update quickly.
  • [2009/09/15 11:20] Sebastean Steamweaver: The example I used last time, was data from a slider.
  • [2009/09/15 11:20] Latif Khalifa: Seb, and server generated texture is faster than htmk?
  • [2009/09/15 11:20] Aimee Trescothick: can do text on a prim with Quicktime text descriptors and http-in
  • [2009/09/15 11:20] Sebastean Steamweaver: Let's say you want something to change color based on a slider, and you want a visual representation of the amount of 'red"
  • [2009/09/15 11:21] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'm not suggesting one is faster than the other Latif, I'm just saying that it needs to be faster, but I think there are probably some things faster than HTML.
  • [2009/09/15 11:21] Latif Khalifa: seb, ajax sites have no problem with those sort of tasks
  • [2009/09/15 11:21] Aimee Trescothick: but still restricted to one media texture per parcel at the moment that way
  • [2009/09/15 11:21] Simon Linden: Aimee - so that would be a QT live stream, but showing text instead of video, right?
  • [2009/09/15 11:21] Sebastean Steamweaver: Yeah, but AImee, this isn't something that should have to use something like streaming from a server.
  • [2009/09/15 11:21] Rex Cronon: svg
  • [2009/09/15 11:21] Helena Lycia: Wouldn't text on a prim be a client-side thing?
  • [2009/09/15 11:22] Sebastean Steamweaver: This is something that should be able to be done entirely from the script.
  • [2009/09/15 11:22] Aimee Trescothick: yes, quicktime will read a text file to do titles and stuff
  • [2009/09/15 11:22] Uni Ninetails: no external influence from the interwebs
  • [2009/09/15 11:22] Simon Linden: It's rendered client-side, but the info would need to be pushed and updated frequently
  • [2009/09/15 11:22] Aimee Trescothick: like http://ubrowser.com/tmp/apple_text.txt
  • [2009/09/15 11:22] Techwolf Lupindo: Aimee, and instanelly lock out all Linux users.
  • [2009/09/15 11:23] Sebastean Steamweaver: Does the Linux alternative (forget the name) not have that capacity?
  • [2009/09/15 11:23] Aimee Trescothick: not sure about that, I've been meaning to check whether gstreamer will handle it
  • [2009/09/15 11:24] Andrew Linden: Well, tell you what. I'll try to find the time to talk to one of the "media on a prim" developers to see what they think about the "text on a prim" idea.
  • [2009/09/15 11:24] Andrew Linden: I'm sure they'll have a better idea than myself as to what it would take to implement it, and just how doable it is.
  • [2009/09/15 11:25] Liisa Runo: what i want: [11:22] Sebastean Steamweaver: This is something that should be able to be done entirely from the script.
  • [2009/09/15 11:25] Ardy Lay: It would be nice to have a media URL type that simply contained data to be presented instead of being a pointer to an out-net system location.
  • [2009/09/15 11:25] Aimee Trescothick: if you rez that board Simon it will reader chat to a media texture
  • [2009/09/15 11:25] Aimee Trescothick: *render
  • [2009/09/15 11:26] Simon Linden: I wonder if it's possible to feed the media-on-a-prim source (i.e, html text) from LSL
  • [2009/09/15 11:26] Ardy Lay: Of course the standard media types would be popular too. :-)
  • [2009/09/15 11:26] Aimee Trescothick: that's exactly what it does :)
  • [2009/09/15 11:26] Uni Ninetails: was thinking that like a notecad with formatting
  • [2009/09/15 11:26] Aimee Trescothick: though it goes blue every time it refreshes :S
  • [2009/09/15 11:26] Ardy Lay: Oh?
  • [2009/09/15 11:27] Uni Ninetails: Freeze freeze freeze
  • [2009/09/15 11:27] NikoKito Aries: hola
  • [2009/09/15 11:27] NikoKito Aries: (es->en) hi
  • [2009/09/15 11:27] Aimee Trescothick: so will blank out everytime someone says something lol, it was just a test so wasn't expecting it to be somewhere with lots of chat lol
  • [2009/09/15 11:27] Helena Lycia: Text sources from a script would be more versatile than from a notecard - more dynamic
  • [2009/09/15 11:27] Sebastean Steamweaver: Yes
  • [2009/09/15 11:27] Uni Ninetails: my viewer craps out every time it refreshes
  • [2009/09/15 11:27] Sebastean Steamweaver: So you could store strings in lists and have things update that way, or build strings dynamically in the script.
  • [2009/09/15 11:28] NikoKito Aries: something
  • [2009/09/15 11:28] Simon Linden: It helps to have streaming media turned on :)
  • [2009/09/15 11:28] Sebastean Steamweaver: Notecard would be far too "heavy" for what it's needed for.
  • [2009/09/15 11:28] Uni Ninetails: Your not a happy prim are you?
  • [2009/09/15 11:28] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Furether. Empty chir to Uni's left
  • [2009/09/15 11:28] Aimee Trescothick: heh, well, its probably not going to work well with lots of chat, but you can have a look at the script :)
  • [2009/09/15 11:28] Sebastean Steamweaver: Let's all be quiet ;)
  • [2009/09/15 11:29] Aimee Trescothick: lol, oops, it's still got text in from the last time I used it
  • [2009/09/15 11:29] Uni Ninetails: yay
  • [2009/09/15 11:30] Meeter: Timecheck : office hours is half over
  • [2009/09/15 11:30] Andrew Linden: These white billboards are supposed to have text on them? I'm not seeing it
  • [2009/09/15 11:30] Aimee Trescothick: is the text on it showing to anyone running linux?
  • [2009/09/15 11:30] Andrew Linden: but perhaps my client render settings are not set set right
  • [2009/09/15 11:30] NikoKito Aries: yes, i see
  • [2009/09/15 11:30] Uni Ninetails: got media on?
  • [2009/09/15 11:30] Kaluura Boa: Not me...
  • [2009/09/15 11:30] Simon Linden: Be sure to turn on streaming media in your prefs
  • [2009/09/15 11:30] Andrew Linden: I'm on Windows today, but I've got most settings disabled.
  • [2009/09/15 11:31] Kaluura Boa: It's on... Play button doesn't stay on
  • [2009/09/15 11:31] Simon Linden: ... and you'll need QT to be installed
  • [2009/09/15 11:31] Andrew Linden: ah ok
  • [2009/09/15 11:31] Andrew Linden: well, perhaps I'll enable it all later
  • [2009/09/15 11:31] Simon Linden: Interesting tho ... thanks Amiee
  • [2009/09/15 11:31] Aimee Trescothick: script needs some work, it was just a test to see if the idea would work at all :)
  • [2009/09/15 11:31] Andrew Linden: I guess that just goes to illustrate, it would be nice to have a solution that works across the board
  • [2009/09/15 11:32] Uni Ninetails: Stating the obvious would be a damn site more interesting without the parcel media requirement of course :))
  • [2009/09/15 11:32] Aimee Trescothick: but if it doesn't work for linux that's a bit of a killer
  • [2009/09/15 11:32] Sebastean Steamweaver: I personally was thinking along Helena's line of thought as you'll see in the JIRA. I think it should be much more simple, like a string in a script, that can be put through a function to display, just like llSetText.
  • [2009/09/15 11:32] Liisa Runo: exactly
  • [2009/09/15 11:33] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, this is definitely a work around rather than a solution
  • [2009/09/15 11:33] Simon Linden: very true ... the media-on-a-prim framework is designed to do what you're after ... put new stuff onto objects as a texture replacment, so it seems like doing something under that makes sense. It would need the LSL interface, however, to do what you want, and I"m not sure how that might work
  • [2009/09/15 11:33] Ardy Lay: Yes, I was just thinking the new media on a prim setup would use URLs and one URL type could be used to state data to be displayed and some display parameters.
  • [2009/09/15 11:34] Sebastean Steamweaver: Simon, would it be able to do things like update quickly, for slider values, or anything else that needs to update at a similar rate, like a readout?
  • [2009/09/15 11:35] Latif Khalifa: Simon, the viewer already knows how to render html, so you would need a function like llSetFaceHtml and send it to the viewer which would render it into a face texure
  • [2009/09/15 11:35] Simon Linden: It would require some viewer design, but I wonder if a custom mime type from M-o-a-p could be re-directed to LSL messages
  • [2009/09/15 11:36] Simon Linden: Talking to those develpers is the next step, it will be interesting to hear what they say
  • [2009/09/15 11:36] Andrew Linden: I was just in an internal LL meeting where the "Media on a prim" (MOAP) project was used as an example of a project that took far longer than it should have.
  • [2009/09/15 11:37] Andrew Linden: The point made was that we had to write custom message handling all over the place to support it.
  • [2009/09/15 11:37] Sebastean Steamweaver: I updated my JIRA btw. I took out background color for the text, and put in font alpha. Just a note, I figure that the text could/should be rendered on top of any texture/color on the prim face.
  • [2009/09/15 11:37] Andrew Linden: And it would be nice if we already had a data transmission protocol that could carry that info with little work.
  • [2009/09/15 11:38] Arawn Spitteler: SVC-93 is similar, in that it shouldn't be that hard. What was the failure of design philosophy, that the data movement has to be written in several places?
  • [2009/09/15 11:39] Andrew Linden: SVC-93. I should fix that. Sigh.
  • [2009/09/15 11:39] Sebastean Steamweaver: Matrices canbe nasty beasties.
  • [2009/09/15 11:39] Arawn Spitteler: It's a bigger project than it should be, or it'd have ben fixed long since. Fix the fundamentals or have an intern fix it irst
  • [2009/09/15 11:40] Arawn Spitteler: Yeah, we need competant rotations, so college students can learn about Matricies, or they'll just write another generation of that crap
  • [2009/09/15 11:41] Arawn Spitteler: The fate of Instrumentation Engineering rests once again, on Andrew Linden
  • [2009/09/15 11:41] Andrew Linden: Actually, the internal rotation stuff is all quaternions, but they are isomorphic with rotations so it isn't much of a distinction.
  • [2009/09/15 11:41] Andrew Linden: The "order of operation" issues remain.
  • [2009/09/15 11:42] Arawn Spitteler: Are most progammers familiar with non-commutative arithmatic?
  • [2009/09/15 11:42] Sebastean Steamweaver: It'd be niceif more than programmers were.
  • [2009/09/15 11:43] Arawn Spitteler: I've taken many courses in Linear Algebra, and I don't learn Grammar that way either
  • [2009/09/15 11:43] Andrew Linden: I just haven't been able to make much progress recently, on bugs that we talk about every office hour.
  • [2009/09/15 11:44] Andrew Linden: I think I need to start making promises. That might be the only way I'll be able to actually get stuff done ;-)
  • [2009/09/15 11:44] Sebastean Steamweaver: SVC-2885
  • [2009/09/15 11:44] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2885
  • [#SVC-2885] llSetObjectScale and llGetObjectScale
  • [2009/09/15 11:44] Sebastean Steamweaver: :D
  • [2009/09/15 11:44] Latif Khalifa: "just" fix the freezes, we can wait for other stuff :D
  • [2009/09/15 11:44] Arawn Spitteler: Aren'tFreezes a client side feature?
  • [2009/09/15 11:44] Andrew Linden: I think I'll take a swing at SVC-93. There are some other LSL fixes that need attention too.
  • [2009/09/15 11:44] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-93
  • [#SVC-93] llSetPrimitiveParams PRIM_ROTATION and llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
  • [2009/09/15 11:44] Helena Lycia: You always ask about that Sebastian
  • [2009/09/15 11:45] Latif Khalifa: sim freezes are killing me
  • [2009/09/15 11:45] Helena Lycia: Me too
  • [2009/09/15 11:45] Uni Ninetails: nods
  • [2009/09/15 11:45] Andrew Linden: Often it is convenient to fix unrelated stuff that is in the same file.
  • [2009/09/15 11:45] Latif Khalifa: Arawn, not client side, its a sim problem
  • [2009/09/15 11:45] Helena Lycia: The most irritating thing about SL right now IMHO
  • [2009/09/15 11:45] Andrew Linden: Someone else will be working on the sim freezes.
  • [2009/09/15 11:45] Latif Khalifa: everybody agrees that freezes are most serious problem atm
  • [2009/09/15 11:45] Helena Lycia: Any ETA?
  • [2009/09/15 11:46] Uni Ninetails: i gotten into the habit of watching mytails. when a freeze hits i know immediately then when its ver the move again (there lsl script)
  • [2009/09/15 11:46] Andrew Linden: There are a series of meetings going on within LL this week...
  • [2009/09/15 11:46] Arawn Spitteler: I think it means the Servers are being run close to their edges, and better sims mightbe a product
  • [2009/09/15 11:46] Andrew Linden: where some of the strategists are going to try to build a road map for the next year, and next three years
  • [2009/09/15 11:46] Andrew Linden: looks like they've got *lag* in general within their sights
  • [2009/09/15 11:46] Andrew Linden: Doug Linden is soing to present his ideas on how to tackle some of the bigger problems,
  • [2009/09/15 11:47] lonetorus Habilis: also the mono serialization lag wen ppl tp in?
  • [2009/09/15 11:47] Latif Khalifa: Andrew, generic lag is one thing, this sim freeze thing is far worse than any lag
  • [2009/09/15 11:47] Andrew Linden: such as lag, and how to rewrite or overhaul the servers to get some of the bigger projects done
  • [2009/09/15 11:47] Uni Ninetails: well contiguous regions would help lag on crossings
  • [2009/09/15 11:47] Sebastean Steamweaver: Functions which reduce the number of scripts we need to use to change objects like llGEt/SetObjectScale and llSetLinkListPrimitiveParams would help tremendously with lag >.>
  • [2009/09/15 11:48] Arawn Spitteler: Is it possible to set a nullspace-megasim in Aditi?
  • [2009/09/15 11:48] Andrew Linden: well, what I meant, Latif, was that they are thinking about how to fix "lag". and I quote it because I'm aware that lag is a word that covers lots of different things
  • [2009/09/15 11:48] Arawn Spitteler: Four nullspace sims locked to a single CPU?
  • [2009/09/15 11:49] Uni Ninetails: dunno. I made a 4x megaregion on a old p4 and crammed it with stuff and it ran acceptably. then a quad athlong pc i had spare (8x) and it ran well
  • [2009/09/15 11:49] Arawn Spitteler: One thing might be handy, client side, for rubberbanding, is to fade colors as the server doesn't communicate to the client
  • [2009/09/15 11:50] Simon Linden: or just dampen the motion prediction a bit
  • [2009/09/15 11:50] Latif Khalifa: Sim freeze happens to all, irrespective of their graphics card, network, or even sim load, it kills the experience for all at once
  • [2009/09/15 11:50] Uni Ninetails: then some people would be in black and white constantly no joke intended
  • [2009/09/15 11:50] lonetorus Habilis: arawan, not a bad idea +++
  • [2009/09/15 11:50] Aimee Trescothick: it'd be like living in the 1920s or something
  • [2009/09/15 11:51] Arawn Spitteler: Well, we have to hgave some prediction, but the User should have an idea how much prediction he's dealling with. Bujold describes the size of the emperor's nose
  • [2009/09/15 11:51] Simon Linden: Hmm, we could have 'film noir' regions :)
  • [2009/09/15 11:51] Aimee Trescothick: lol
  • [2009/09/15 11:51] Latif Khalifa: haha
  • [2009/09/15 11:51] Uni Ninetails: prediction for x seconds then it stops. none of this 5 sims then bang
  • [2009/09/15 11:51] lonetorus Habilis: but ultimately fixing the lag on tp arrival should in my humble opinion have much grater priority, than it (from a external viewpont) has
  • [2009/09/15 11:52] Arawn Spitteler: X Seconds until grey scale could be a client side setting, if we've any client scripters here.
  • [2009/09/15 11:52] Andrew Linden: The lag on TP arrival is high on the list.
  • [2009/09/15 11:52] Rex Cronon: would we also have to carry packets y hand from sim to sim:)
  • [2009/09/15 11:52] Rex Cronon: by hand*
  • [2009/09/15 11:52] Kaluura Boa: =^_^=
  • [2009/09/15 11:52] Simon Linden: I'm feeling small glimmers of hope there ... execs seem to be much more aware that it's an issue we need to spend time on than in the past, so I hope we can get some work done
  • [2009/09/15 11:52] Aimee Trescothick: no, they upgraded to carrier pigeon rex
  • [2009/09/15 11:52] Latif Khalifa: tcp-over-pigeon-net ;)
  • [2009/09/15 11:52] Sebastean Steamweaver: Andrew, yet again, I seem to remember information that a lot of th lag on TPs was caused by a large number of scripts on the avatar.
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] Simon Linden: No animals, we're going to use semaphore flags
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] Uni Ninetails: like 200 mono resize scripts
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] Andrew Linden: yes Sebastian
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: Which a tthe very least, isn't helping at all.
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] Rex Cronon: ha. ha .ha...
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] Helena Lycia: You don't need that many scripts
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] Arawn Spitteler: AD might help eventually
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: Now, I've been pushing these for a while.
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] NikoKito Aries: buenas noches a todos, debo salir
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] NikoKito Aries: (es->en) Good night all, I must leave
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] Rex Cronon: tc
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: The reason I've been pushing them is to fix that kind of inefficiency and lag.
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] Simon Linden: Take care, NikoKito
  • [2009/09/15 11:53] Helena Lycia: I've seen rezzed objects with only a dozen scripts freeze a sim for enough time to be painful
  • [2009/09/15 11:54] Uni Ninetails: Tell that to person made a skirt and pscripted all the prims
  • [2009/09/15 11:54] NikoKito Aries: better for you
  • [2009/09/15 11:54] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, could you also explain how the flywheel effect in the mono schedular works, or point me to some material that explains it?
  • [2009/09/15 11:54] Sebastean Steamweaver: You know my speech, you know how many scripts those functions could reduce things by.
  • [2009/09/15 11:54] Arawn Spitteler: I recently had four on temp vehicle, and we all lag orbited, while the vehicle vanished
  • [2009/09/15 11:54] Andrew Linden: No lonetorus, you want to ask Babbage Linden about the MONO flywheel.
  • [2009/09/15 11:54] Sebastean Steamweaver: The sims are literally hurting for it. And I'll bet you that if they were implemented, you'd find performance improvement in places you didn't even expect.
  • [2009/09/15 11:55] Meeter: Timecheck : office hours is almost over
  • [2009/09/15 11:55] lonetorus Habilis: good enough, ty, now i just have to hope he is not late as usual ;)
  • [2009/09/15 11:55] Helena Lycia: Andrew. We talked a while ago about SVC-4335 I realise everyone's busy but have you had any further thoughts on it?
  • [2009/09/15 11:55] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4335
  • [#SVC-4335] New features to improve movement options for agents
  • [2009/09/15 11:55] Uni Ninetails: better prediction?
  • [2009/09/15 11:55] Techwolf Lupindo: I was in a sim with one other avatar and severl child avatars. I though the sim was under attack untill I found out that the other avatar just rezzed a boat.
  • [2009/09/15 11:55] Arawn Spitteler: VEHICLE_TYPE_AGENT??
  • [2009/09/15 11:55] Sebastean Steamweaver: You've said they're easy, and almost across the board they're seen as helpful. So, if we are trying to solve lag, isn't there anyone that could work on them?
  • [2009/09/15 11:56] Helena Lycia: Arawn?
  • [2009/09/15 11:57] Andrew Linden: No further thoughts on that Helena. I don't think I'll be able to work on that soon, unfortunately.
  • [2009/09/15 11:57] Helena Lycia: :(
  • [2009/09/15 11:57] Arawn Spitteler: Wazzamatta?
  • [2009/09/15 11:57] Helena Lycia: Most of the vehicle use in the sims I live/work on would vanish if we could have that
  • [2009/09/15 11:58] Helena Lycia: You mentioned VEHICLE_TYPE_AGENT
  • [2009/09/15 11:58] Arawn Spitteler: Oh, I read the SVC Wrong
  • [2009/09/15 11:58] Helena Lycia: Did you?
  • [2009/09/15 11:59] Helena Lycia: I'll have to think aboutif what you said gives me any ideas :)
  • [2009/09/15 11:59] Uni Ninetails: Can i briefly ask about region windlight and if its been shelved or whatever so i can stop hoping? :)
  • [2009/09/15 12:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to Linden office hours
  • [2009/09/15 12:00] Andrew Linden: Uni I haven't heard about whether they are planning on working on that or not. I'll try to ask Steve Linden if it is anywhere on his radar.
  • [2009/09/15 12:00] Andrew Linden makes a note.
  • [2009/09/15 12:00] Arawn Spitteler: I'd think Region Windlight would have to be communicated to the Client, which might be set to accept the opion
  • [2009/09/15 12:00] lonetorus Habilis: uni, it was mentioned by pastrami at the linden seeking input from content dev meeting recently
  • [2009/09/15 12:00] Uni Ninetails: hmm
  • [2009/09/15 12:01] Uni Ninetails: well the sims gotta tell the viewer etc etc
  • [2009/09/15 12:01] Helena Lycia: I never understood why it wasn't implemented in the first instance
  • [2009/09/15 12:01] Uni Ninetails: nods
  • [2009/09/15 12:01] Andrew Linden: Ah good. Pastrami Linden would be closer to knowing if that was in the plan.
  • [2009/09/15 12:01] Helena Lycia: Default should be that sim owners control their environment and people can override if they want
  • [2009/09/15 12:01] Helena Lycia: Like with sun position
  • [2009/09/15 12:01] Uni Ninetails: cause regardless of all the under the hood stuff the peoples see the finish and when other "worlds" look nicer....
  • [2009/09/15 12:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: Kinda like the blaring absence of llSet(Link)Glow :P
  • [2009/09/15 12:02] lonetorus Habilis: and torley was there to, going all extatic, when t was mentioned XD
  • [2009/09/15 12:02] Helena Lycia: Heh, I have a JIRA for that somewhere
  • [2009/09/15 12:02] Uni Ninetails: Do love being a content creator and not getting invited... :P~
  • [2009/09/15 12:02] Andrew Linden: I've got to go. I have another meeting that started a couple minutes ago.
  • [2009/09/15 12:02] lonetorus Habilis: uni, there will be more meeting, seeking broader input
  • [2009/09/15 12:02] Andrew Linden: thanks for coming everyone.
  • [2009/09/15 12:02] Uni Ninetails: Okies thanks andrew
  • [2009/09/15 12:02] Ardy Lay: Thanks Andrew and Simon
  • [2009/09/15 12:02] Sebastean Steamweaver: Thank you Andrew
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Uni Ninetails: and Simon whoops
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Rex Cronon: tc andrew
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Sebastean Steamweaver: And Simon/Fisher
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Melchizedek Blauvelt: thanks for taking the time Andrew
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Helena Lycia: SVC-4011
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4011
  • [#SVC-4011] Please could he have a function llSetLinkGlow & llSetGlow (or even llSetLinkAlphaAndGlow & llSetAlphaAndGlow)
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Helena Lycia: Bye bye everyone
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Rex Cronon: tc
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Ardy Lay: Ah yes, Fisher is here too. Thanks Fisher
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Sebastean Steamweaver: Helena, I didn't realize you wrote that one.
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming ... see you next time
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Fisher Linden: bye
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Rex Cronon: tc simon
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Sebastean Steamweaver: I actually added that to MISC-3077 a bit back when Stick and I were going over it.
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-3077
  • [#MISC-3077] Meta-Issue: List of Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions With Large Returns
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Helena Lycia: Yep
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Sebastean Steamweaver: I also have it in my JIRA promotion notecard lol
  • [2009/09/15 12:03] Rex Cronon: bye everybody
  • [2009/09/15 12:04] Simon Linden: Bye
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