User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 09 22

Transcript

[10:55] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: hey Simon.
[10:55] Uni Ninetails: Hullo Simon :)
[10:55] Simon Linden: hello
[10:55] Questar Utu waves.
[10:55] Techwolf Lupindo: Hi simon, you early. :-)
[10:56] Simon Linden: yeah, my other meeting actually ended 5 minutes early
[10:56] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: :o
[10:56] Phantom Ninetails: Greetings, and lucky us then :P
[10:57] Melchizedek Blauvelt: anyone not seen the US army contest yet?
[10:57] Arawn Spitteler: USArmy? Where's that?
[10:57] Phantom Ninetails: Canada?
[10:58] Melchizedek Blauvelt: here, unfortunately ;-)
[10:58] Arawn Spitteler: In Denby?
[10:58] Techwolf Lupindo: Hulu.com got a bunch of adds for that.
[10:58] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Who do we thank for the improved teleport and sim crossing speed then? :p
[10:58] Simon Linden: They're pretty heaving into 'reaching out' online ... have made some big efforts with their game offering
[10:59] Simon Linden: That was probably an after-affect of the restart Saturday morning
[10:59] Arawn Spitteler: I thought that's where video games originated, as Defense Department Training
[10:59] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I've just never crossed sim lines in under half a second all the time before.
[10:59] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[10:59] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Having a constant 200 ping makes sim crossings a nightmare.
[11:00] Rex Cronon: in theory, crossing sims should be a breeze:)
[11:00] Youri Ashton: hello
[11:00] Welcome to Linden office hours
[11:01] Simon Linden: I don't think there's been any code to directly address the TP or crossing speed, but the restart typically makes it better
[11:01] Rex Cronon: since others can see u from the sim u try 2 go 2, and u can see them, your data should already be in the sim u r going 2
[11:01] Rex Cronon: hi youri
[11:01] Youri Ashton: lol, sorry latif
[11:01] Youri Ashton: thats better
[11:01] Simon Linden: There may have been some other code that helped the database, network or something that's related and maybe a little faster or more reliable, dunno specifically though
[11:02] Latif Khalifa: Simon, was to you who broke the teleport again? :P
[11:02] Melchizedek Blauvelt: Hi Rex
[11:02] Simon Linden: With the throttle limits?
[11:02] Youri Ashton: teleport didnt work for me a min ago
[11:02] Latif Khalifa: yes 1 local tp + 1 external = boom lol
[11:02] Youri Ashton: it told me to relog, a little wait and it was okay agai
[11:02] Techwolf Lupindo: I hit those throttle limits over the weekend.
[11:02] Rex Cronon: hi melchizedek
[11:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I teleported here in under half a second, as most of my teleports have been since the restart.
[11:03] Latif Khalifa: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4836
[11:03] region teleport causes inter-region teleport to fail if performed in quick succession
[11:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Oh, I tested that for Kyra.
[11:03] Latif Khalifa: yeah breaks every time
[11:03] d run into this, over the weekend: Is http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4834 at all related to SVC-22 ?
[11:03] Boat behaving strangely, under 1.30.0
[11:03] Vehicles crossing region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[11:03] Latif Khalifa: sometimes the client gets confused and cannot teleport again
[11:03] Youri Ashton: hi andrew
[11:04] Andrew Linden: hi
[11:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hey Andrew.
[11:04] Simon Linden: There was some dicussion about tweaking the throttle settings yesterday, I don't know what the conclusions were
[11:04] Latif Khalifa: about 1 in 10 times i need to relog to teleport again
[11:04] Rex Cronon: hi andrew
[11:04] Latif Khalifa: what do you mean tweak? SVC-4836 shows its pretty broken
[11:04] Techwolf Lupindo: What was the official reason for the tp throttle? Landbots?
[11:05] Simon Linden: Changing it enough to shut off the kick operation, although that bug makes is sound like the accounting is totally hosed. Andrew, we're discussing https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4836
[11:05] region teleport causes inter-region teleport to fail if performed in quick succession
[11:05] Latif Khalifa: nobody would mind teleport limits if they actually did what they are advertised to do
[11:06] Latif Khalifa: its just that every attempt to implement them causes bugs
[11:06] Andrew Linden: Yeah, I heard about the discussion about changing the TP throttle settings.
[11:06] Latif Khalifa: why is it so difficult to implement teleport throttle correctly?
[11:06] Andrew Linden: I believe SVC-4836 is fixed. I don't think it is a problem anymore.
[11:06] Techwolf Lupindo: It took me a while, but I was on a streak doing a gridhunt and got tp erros. Pulled up the map to see if the sim was up, it was and showed three persons there. I double click the map and the tp worked. Then I got the same error 10 minutes later.
[11:07] Techwolf Lupindo: while to figure out
[11:07] Andrew Linden: The original reaons for the TP throttles was indeed land-search bots
[11:07] Imaze Rhiano: correct implementation requires sacrifice of virgin during half moon - it is hard to find virgins these days
[11:07] Liisa Runo: so does this mean they need to increase the number of land bots to keep up the speed?
[11:07] Andrew Linden: mostly because of their impact on the database rather than their impact on the land market
[11:07] Twisted Laws: Andrew, the Mute button doesn't appear in this latest server on other owners' llDialog boxes so the old dialog box griefer attack is effective again.
[11:07] Andrew Linden: yes Liisa, it is an arms race
[11:08] Latif Khalifa: land bots don't teleport they just do search
[11:08] Latif Khalifa: they only teleport when they actually find something to buy
[11:08] Andrew Linden: Latif, they do teleport when their search is throttled per-region
[11:08] Latif Khalifa: yes, fix is to make throttle per agent, not per agent/region ;)
[11:09] Andrew Linden: Twisted, I'm not sure which mute button you're talking about
[11:09] Imaze Rhiano: you need web service for land buying
[11:09] Andrew Linden: it sounds like a viewer UI issue -- I wonder how the server would affect that mute button
[11:09] Twisted Laws: hmmm... 1.23.4 did have a mute button for a while... not there now
[11:09] Twisted Laws: no viewer change
[11:10] Andrew Linden: it is possible the server is to blame, but it sounds odd
[11:10] Arawn Spitteler: Add a respone delay for land searches, to reduce access to human friendly streams?
[11:10] Latif Khalifa: will these telport bugfixes mean that there will be 1.30.1?
[11:10] Andrew Linden: yes arawn, that needs to be done
[11:10] Andrew Linden: there will definitely be a 1.30.1
[11:11] Arawn Spitteler expects a bug fix for http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4834 becaue the related isues are SEC
[11:11] Boat behaving strangely, under 1.30.0
[11:11] Andrew Linden: but I don't know what all will be included in that yet
[11:11] Questar Utu: 0.o
[11:12] Imaze Rhiano oils rex's boots
[11:12] Arawn Spitteler: Actually, I might add a delay, and turn that into a bus service
[11:12] Techwolf Lupindo: I found a motocycle stuck in a wall between parcles. I tried to ride and got some strange results.
[11:12] Andrew Linden: So... I'm currently in the middle of a merge of a branch that has the lock on the trunk.
[11:12] Andrew Linden: In other words, I need to merge this code branch because all other projects in the merge queue are waiting for me.
[11:13] Uni Ninetails: oh my...
[11:13] Rex Cronon: ?
[11:13] Andrew Linden: So I may be a little unresponsive during this hour as I wrangle stuff on the side.
[11:13] Youri Ashton: was Im-ing with Maestro Linden anyways :p
[11:14] Rex Cronon: oh:)
[11:14] Andrew Linden: What are the issues with 1.30 that people have noticed? I haven't seen a good list of the new bugs yet.
[11:14] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I've not had any yet.
[11:14] Youri Ashton: not sure where 1.30 is working and where not
[11:14] Arawn Spitteler: My adventue in WarpPos ran into a mess.
[11:15] Phantom Ninetails: As I haven't been on much the only issue I see is that there are very few changes for such a large version number
[11:15] Rex Cronon: i have the text window cover most of the screen. didn't see that i got on th table:)
[11:15] Simon Linden: I've heard of the TP throttle issue, the boat behavior is new to me
[11:15] Youri Ashton: i did see big lag problems around pooley and waterhead, more then usually
[11:15] Questar Utu notes what Phantom said. "Yeah.. That did seem strange."
[11:15] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I've also started college this week so I've not had much time to play around. :p
[11:16] Youri Ashton: with kate's meeting last friday i had on ping sim 1000+ msec
[11:16] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Ouch.
[11:16] Youri Ashton: indeed
[11:16] Youri Ashton: thats after Michael and me tried to fix some problems there
[11:17] Andrew Linden: Lessee, what is in sever-1.30 anyway? I need to refresh my memory.
[11:17] Ardy Lay: Other than getting dialog spamed once I haven't had problems.
[11:17] Arawn Spitteler recalls his SI principles: 1000 msec would be about 60 Thirds, or one second?
[11:17] Twisted Laws: SVC-4243 and SVC-3514 are the ones that seem to have come back with server 1.30
[11:17] creating functions need serious throttling.
[11:17] and other LLMessageBox-generating functions) should be per-agent throttled, not delayed
[11:17] Youri Ashton: hi mandii
[11:17] Andrew Linden: There aren't a whole lot of misc bug fixes there. I had some bug fix branches and one of them was rejected for lack of time on QA's part.
[11:17] Mandii Flanagan: hi
[11:18] Andrew Linden: Ack. I was supposed to get those release notes updated.
[11:18] Questar Utu: 'lo.
[11:18] Andrew Linden: I'm dropping balls all over the place. I can't juggle this many.
[11:18] Arawn Spitteler doesn't ee her dancing anmation: There'sa seat to the southeast
[11:18] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I was wondering about the small release notes too. :p
[11:18] Youri Ashton: x!
[11:18] Youri Ashton: mic!
[11:18] Youri Ashton: lol
[11:19] Latif Khalifa: prospero used to make nice release notes, it should be the release team that does it, not you andrew
[11:19] Andrew Linden: Yeah, but I was going to poke the release team about that.
[11:19] Twisted Laws: and VWR-3561
[11:19] Blue Dialogs can overload the viewer.
[11:19] Latif Khalifa: who is doing what prospero used to do now?
[11:19] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Urgh, blue dialog spam. :/
[11:20] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 0.5 FPS in a matter of seconds from those.
[11:20] Youri Ashton: never had that happen o_0
[11:20] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Why are those so resource hungry on the viewer in the first place?
[11:20] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Oh, we had grey goo attacks in FN.
[11:20] Questar Utu: Never been in an attack though, have you Youri? :p
[11:20] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Every cube tried to spam those.
[11:20] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: It was a nightmare - even Frontier Linden struggled to clean it up.
[11:20] Youri Ashton: not with blue screens
[11:20] Youri Ashton: lol
[11:20] Phantom Ninetails: I sure wish muting the person would stop their dialogs.. *cough* http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6964
[11:20] Muting object (or object owner) does not mute dialogs
[11:21] Youri Ashton: lots of texture spam or other objects, but no blue screens
[11:21] Questar Utu: Yeah. Just like text spam, but with the dialogs.
[11:21] Andrew Linden: We had a temporary fill in for Prospero: Dante Linden.
[11:21] Arawn Spitteler: I wonder, if I could create ghosted prims, could theydetect when they had no owner, and become mute resistant?
[11:21] Andrew Linden: Lil Linden has stepped up to permenantly take over the duties.
[11:21] Twisted Laws: you could stop the blue dialogs for a while with 1.23.4 and server 1.27 with a mute button... but thats gone again so maybe i'm not using same viewer or something... it may have been trunk that had the mute.
[11:22] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Emerald's so called "dialog protection" doesn't work either.
[11:22] Latif Khalifa: let's hope Lil gets 1.32 release notes right :D
[11:22] Liisa Runo: also LL should have power to remove all objects owned by X person, all over the grid, feels stupid that LL comes to clean one sandbox, but all the surrounding places are full of phys cubes
[11:22] Questar Utu: I.. Don't think Ghosted prims could even run scripts, Arawn, hence being ghosted. :p Not really there.
[11:22] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Scripts can become ghosted, hon.
[11:22] Twisted Laws: my patch in VWR-3561 does work by setting busy
[11:23] Questar Utu: Hmn
[11:23] Questar Utu: .
[11:23] Simon Linden: Well, they're in some weird not-quite-plugged-in-right state, so anythings' possible
[11:23] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Although I'm not sure if that was fixed.
[11:23] Phantom Ninetails: Yeah Liisa, they used to do that fairly regularly, it went alongside banning the person.. Their current process takes forever.
[11:23] Arawn Spitteler: I've seen a ghosted sound and particle player, but don't know if they can run scripts
[11:23] Questar Utu: Well, particles and loop sounds don't require continuous function activation. Just like animate texture and floating text.
[11:24] Rex Cronon: "ghosted sound"? what isthat?
[11:24] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: When a prim is ghosted to the viewer.
[11:24] Questar Utu: Likely a loop sound that never went away with the prim.
[11:24] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: But the sound still plays.
[11:24] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Relog fixes it.
[11:24] Questar Utu: I've had that before with someone's gun.
[11:24] Questar Utu: Yeah.
[11:24] Youri Ashton: relog fixes a lot of bugs it seems
[11:24] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Heh. :p
[11:25] Youri Ashton: even if it doesnt take long for soemt o come back in no time :p
[11:25] Questar Utu: Ghosted stuff is basically just the Viewer not being correctly told what shouldn't exist.
[11:25] Andrew Linden: Questar is right.
[11:25] Arawn Spitteler: Is Crashme available for testing a ghost maker? I remember at Pooley Stage, Zero was doing a presentation of interest to a lot of lindens, and a spam attack floated in from Waterhead. They couldn't do anything about the remaining ghosts, but to mute
[11:25] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Unless it's collision box is still there. :D
[11:25] Questar Utu: That's partly the viewer too I would imagine, maybe it's sim side.
[11:25] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: No.
[11:25] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: More sim side.
[11:25] Arawn Spitteler: Yeah, Ghosts are in the machine
[11:25] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Sim tells the viewer collisions as far as I'm aware.
[11:25] Twisted Laws: if Velocity Interpolate Objects isn't enabled, you end up with lots of ghosts from temporary physical objects
[11:26] Questar Utu: True.
[11:26] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Ouch.
[11:26] Latif Khalifa: i think that bit has been solved, i have not seen physics engine not clearing colission shape for deleted prims in a loong time
[11:26] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I had someone report a large build had ghosted in one of the FN sandboxes yesterday.
[11:26] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: He could still collide into it.
[11:27] Liisa Runo: sometiems ghost prims can be sensed too
[11:27] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: The build never returned to his inventory either.
[11:27] Latif Khalifa: hm, well at least the frequency is a lot lower, it used to happen whenever asset server had issues
[11:27] Questar Utu: I've had things about half as large as this platform and three times as tall as me be ghosted, collision box -wise.
[11:27] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, we get far less of them in Natoma now.
[11:27] Arawn Spitteler: Someone reported Ghosts at Burning Life, but I wasn't free for a look. My Boat ran into issues too predictable for Ghosts, but similar
[11:27] Arawn Spitteler: Asset ervers are going to have isues, at Burning Life
[11:28] Questar Utu: Asset servers.. Almost always tend to have issues it seems. Just more at some times than others. <_<;
[11:28] Simon Linden: The classic ghost was a shape that got put into the physics engine, but there wasn't a corresponding object sending updates to the viewers. It can happen if the object insert or delete code gets confused
[11:28] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Ah.
[11:28] Arawn Spitteler shold suggest that Dusty schedule daily resets.
[11:29] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Natoma crashes enough so we don't have to request restarts, heh.
[11:29] Questar Utu: Yeah, ghosted objects seem to tend to be physical things that appear and disappear quickly.
[11:30] Phantom Ninetails: In 1.26 I have run into server-side ghosted physical things and huge non-physical things.
[11:30] Arawn Spitteler: I have't heard of Ghosted Perms, lately, have those been handled?
[11:30] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Ghosted perms?
[11:30] Latif Khalifa: lol
[11:30] Andrew Linden: Dusty Linden was asking for some Linden who "knows about collisions" to come talk at Burning Life for an hour.
[11:30] Andrew Linden: I just got that email.
[11:30] office hours is half over
[11:31] Simon Linden: yes, I got that as well -- I assume it's about LSL collision functions and events, but wasn't totally clear
[11:31] Andrew Linden: I think I've forgotten everything I know about collisions and their LSL handling.
[11:32] Arawn Spitteler: Get someone fom Havok?
[11:32] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Heh.
[11:32] Simon Linden: I'm not much beyond the 'events happen' level :)
[11:32] Questar Utu: Ah.. Random question.. Not meaning to disrupt the current subject, but was the invisible layer around physical objects intentional, or a fix to something else? <o <
[11:32] Arawn Spitteler: What kind of Collisions does she mean?
[11:32] Andrew Linden: Ha! No one at Havok knows how they work in SL ;-)
[11:32] Simon Linden: I wasn't sure we even had a current subject :)
[11:32] Andrew Linden: They know how their API works, but not how we've used it.
[11:33] Latif Khalifa: haha
[11:33] Simon Linden: There's a small collision tolerance, 0.05 m I think
[11:33] Andrew Linden: I'm joking kinda. The code is there. It wouldn't take me too long to sort through it.
[11:33] Arawn Spitteler: I thought it was .1 meters?
[11:33] Simon Linden: That helps the physics engine
[11:33] Questar Utu: Hmn.. I've seen effects from physical objects on volume detect ones that ranges 0.25m or more.
[11:34] Questar Utu: I think.
[11:34] Andrew Linden: it is 0.1 meters, 0.05 if you want the split the difference between the two surfaces, I guess.
[11:34] Questar Utu: I forget the exact thing.
[11:34] Youri Ashton: bye bye all
[11:34] Rex Cronon: it would be good if it was only 0.01:)
[11:34] Questar Utu waves.
[11:34] Questar Utu: Would be good, if it were dependant on the size of the prim. <_<;
[11:35] Arawn Spitteler waves interestedly at whoever: I thought it was .1 meters to a side, for a total of .2 meters. I might have to reshape my boat
[11:35] Questar Utu: Like so..
[11:35] Andrew Linden: so, server-1.30.1 will happen, but it will be only super-critical bug fixes
[11:35] Twisted Laws: would be better if it was -0.01
[11:35] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: ...that's big.
[11:35] Latif Khalifa: Andrew, is there any work on making sculpties collide correctly? what about when meshes come?
[11:35] Andrew Linden: meanwhile, LL is trying to get 1.32 out in a shorter turn-around than what was between 1.27 and 1.30
[11:35] Questar Utu: 0.o
[11:35] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: And why are those cubes juggling...
[11:35] Questar Utu: Well.. That's silly.
[11:35] Andrew Linden: I think what they are shooting for is 5 or 6 weeks.
[11:36] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Skipping 1.31?
[11:36] Imaze Rhiano: so when we get megaprims and mesh support? :P
[11:36] Simon Linden: We're on an alternating number sequence
[11:36] Phantom Ninetails: So there will be even LESS new features in 1.32? (there were none in 1.30)
[11:36] Latif Khalifa: it's only even numbers now Sah
[11:36] Simon Linden: Odd numbers don't get released
[11:36] Andrew Linden: Alas, Latif, no work on properly colliding sculpties that I know of, however some viewer folk are already working on meshes
[11:36] Arawn Spitteler: Sculpty collisions would be server side, like Flexy collisions. Sculpties don't rez instantly for efverybody, so they can't collide correctly
[11:36] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Ah, I see.
[11:36] Andrew Linden: The problem is we just don't have enough dev's on the server side of things.
[11:37] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Havok...what are you doing to those prims. :|
[11:37] Questar Utu: xD
[11:37] Phantom Ninetails: :(
[11:37] Andrew Linden: But we're trying to hire now. I'm going to start participating in interviews this week.
[11:37] Latif Khalifa: Andrew, would be nice not to introduce meshes without server support for proper collisions
[11:37] Latif Khalifa: like it was done for sculpties
[11:37] Andrew Linden: Latif, I totally agree.
[11:37] Simon Linden: We've been pushing for it
[11:37] Andrew Linden: In fact, that was one of my opinions about sculpty.
[11:38] Simon Linden: There's some other code I had an intern work on with collision shapes that we want to get in at the same time ...
[11:38] Andrew Linden: And also spinning static objects (if we want to go back that far).
[11:38] Simon Linden: ... lets you simplify the shape for prims - use a box or sphere to minimize the load on the physics engine
[11:38] Questar Utu: Ping. >:
[11:38] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I can't move physical objects with 200+ ping. :/
[11:38] Andrew Linden: i.e. llSetTargetOmega() on static objects
[11:38] Latif Khalifa: yeah llTargetOmega being client side
[11:38] Andrew Linden: er... right. llTargetOmega()
[11:38] Andrew Linden: sigh...
[11:39] Phantom Ninetails: So a server side version of that?
[11:39] Andrew Linden: but about 1.32...
[11:39] Andrew Linden: the code freeze for 1.32 is at the end of this week
[11:39] Andrew Linden: I've only got two little branches of bug fixes in the pipeline for it
[11:40] Andrew Linden: one of which I'm trying to merge right now, that has nothing but a dataserver crash fix
[11:40] Imaze Rhiano: meshes have then own collision meshes that are uploaded with other mesh levels?
[11:40] Andrew Linden: (dataserver is another process we use to move blocking database queries out of the simulator)
[11:40] Latif Khalifa: which will help with the freezes hopefully .9
[11:41] Andrew Linden: ideally Imaze the simulator would just generate some mesh approximations for collision purposes and use those by default
[11:41] Simon Linden: Imaze - yes,that's the kind of thing we want to do
[11:41] Simon Linden: At a high level, get more control over it
[11:41] Questar Utu: Woah. o.o The flat ones stopped jiggling.
[11:41] Andrew Linden: Level of detail (LOD) overrides of collision meshes should probably be a manual setting (new feature)
[11:42] Andrew Linden: but hey... proper collision shapes for meshes would be a new feature for meshes which would be a new feature
[11:42] Phantom Ninetails: Dang connection died just as Andrew was talking about 1.32.
[11:42] Imaze Rhiano: are you going to support collada format? or just OBJs?
[11:42] Andrew Linden: What I wanted to say about server-1.32 is that it is probably not going to have a lot of bug fixes there.
[11:43] Andrew Linden: I've got to the end of this week to fix anything new
[11:43] Andrew Linden: and maybe a week or two where I can fix emergency bugs
[11:43] Phantom Ninetails: It seems a little early for 1.32 to be finalized, doesn't seem like you had much time to work on it
[11:43] Andrew Linden: but frankly, what happens to my days, typically, is that I come to work planning on working on some bug
[11:43] Phantom Ninetails: 1.30 just came out and all
[11:43] Questar Utu: I'm also slightly curious, although it has nothing to do with this except for collision maps, if there will ever be a way to change the avatar collision map. Emerald does to a degree, but, well, I have a micro avatar and it can't really compare. :p
[11:44] Andrew Linden: and I get totally sidetracked by the latest emergency bug -- such as the permissions bug that prompted the early 1.30 rollout
[11:44] Simon Linden: Questar - it
[11:44] Andrew Linden: the smoldering bugs get dropped in favor of the violently explosive ones
[11:44] Simon Linden: ... it's not on our list
[11:44] Questar Utu: o.o?
[11:45] Simon Linden: Changing the AV shape has some big side effects ... it's key in how you move about the world
[11:45] Uni Ninetails: Nods, and smoldering embers can burn down a house if enough collect....
[11:45] Simon Linden: go up stairs, for example
[11:45] Andrew Linden: meshes will probably support colada, when I've overheard the viewer dev's talking about it they were all in favor of collada
[11:45] Questar Utu: Heh.
[11:45] Questar Utu already scripted something to change the actual speed I move at for the avatar. <_<;
[11:45] Simon Linden: We tweaked it a lot during the change to havok4 ... it's surprising how it affects things
[11:46] Rex Cronon: it wouldn't be bad if .obj was suppported:)
[11:46] Andrew Linden: oy... changing the avatar shape is not something I want to do anytime soon -- what a headache
[11:46] Questar Utu: Heh.
[11:46] Questar Utu: I don't even have the slightest clue what's involved, so, nevermind I suppose. :p
[11:46] Latif Khalifa: yeah i remember one of the first iterations of havok4 and not being able to walk up the stairs :D
[11:46] Simon Linden: I don't remember and details, but the mesh format is something that's supposed to be open/available enough to converters can used for all the popular 3d formats
[11:47] Simon Linden: ... for mesh import
[11:47] Andrew Linden: collada is an open standard, I think
[11:47] Latif Khalifa: i just wish it gets sim support, unlike sculpties :)
[11:47] Imaze Rhiano: ya... I guess industry is moving towards collada generally
[11:48] Andrew Linden: hrm... I should ask Qarl what the collision support for mesh and sculpties is going to be, if any
[11:48] Simon Linden: yeah, collada would be good
[11:48] Latif Khalifa needs to go, have fun everybody!
[11:48] Uni Ninetails: cya
[11:48] Simon Linden: bye
[11:48] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: See you. :o
[11:48] Imaze Rhiano: bye
[11:48] Arawn Spitteler: L8r, LAtif
[11:49] Questar Utu waves.
[11:49] Rex Cronon: tc
[11:49] Andrew Linden: So if server 1.32 can get out in 6 weeks... that would be end of October or more likely early Nov.
[11:50] Andrew Linden: I think the main driver for server-1.32 is the various features and changes required to make the new viewer2009 project work.
[11:50] Arawn Spitteler: Would QA be up to the task? 1.30.0 should never have passed
[11:51] Andrew Linden: really? you've got a blocker for 1.30 Arawn? The vehicle bug you were talking about?
[11:51] Phantom Ninetails: I'd love to see one of the new script features in there I've been longing for..
[11:51] Arawn Spitteler: The vehicle bug is possibly related to a security issue, so there's no official comment. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours
[11:52] Questar Utu: There are a lot of script functions I'd like. <o < Some simple, but, heh, god knows whoever deals with it has their hands full already.
[11:52] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I'd like to point out that Questar is an insanely good scripter. >.>
[11:52] Questar Utu: Heh. xP
[11:52] Liisa Runo: yes, we need loads more LSL functions, LSL is what makes SL tick
[11:52] Andrew Linden: Questar, you've looked at Misc-3077?
[11:52] List of Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions With Large Returns
[11:53] Phantom Ninetails: I'd like to see many too, but you see, 1.30 had no new features, I think it's more realistic to hope for one. :P
[11:53] Questar Utu blinks. o.o
[11:53] Simon Linden: the performance problems are going to get attention before we put any significant effort into new script features
[11:53] Andrew Linden: Questar, if you have any ideas that are missing from misc-3077 then feel free to add or link up
[11:53] Ardy Lay: o/
[11:53] Phantom Ninetails: Fair enough I suppose
[11:54] Imaze Rhiano: how is those mono rezz and transporter performance issues coming together?
[11:54] Questar Utu: Well, the only simple function I can think of at the moment [or seemingly simple] would be a way to detect the color of another prim. Via llGetObjectDetails or something.
[11:54] Andrew Linden: right, if there are any performance gains figured out in the next two to three weeks I'll bet they'll be included in server-1.32
[11:54] Simon Linden: Imaze - no news there
[11:54] Rex Cronon: simon. adding new lsl functions ha the possibliity of improving erformance:)
[11:54] Questar Utu: But! I'll take a look at that page in more detail in a bit. :o
[11:54] Rex Cronon: has the poss...
[11:55] Simon Linden: Yep, that's true
[11:55] Arawn Spitteler: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4834?ticket=ST-444-QCzZHK5nGTOuipDrbSaFgEintvY3hfqaRQk-20
[11:55] Boat behaving strangely, under 1.30.0
[11:55] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: That sends me to the dashboard. o.o
[11:55] office hours is almost over
[11:55] Simon Linden: So has that boat be reset or is it still acting oddly?
[11:56] Simon Linden: err, been reset
[11:56] Arawn Spitteler: I'm fielding a rumor, that Kids won't be allowed into Burning Life.
[11:56] Arawn Spitteler: The boat should reset itself, each sim change, but crashes with passengers, stranding itself.
[11:57] Arawn Spitteler: Should an object get a Changed Link, when riders log off?
[11:57] Questar Utu: Likely so.
[11:57] Questar Utu: Considering, they wouldn't be sitting on it anymore.
[11:57] Arawn Spitteler: Rocky Pickles left my boat in the ground, and it acted as though it didn't get the event
[11:57] Phantom Ninetails: Sometimes if I fail region crossings on a vehicle, not only does it not recieve changed link, it still recieves control events and keeps plowing forward
[11:58] Questar Utu: Heh.
[11:58] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Oh dear.
[11:58] Simon Linden: region crossings with vehicles are just problematic at this point. It needs some low-level attention
[11:58] Arawn Spitteler: It's designed to work in Burning Life, but most technical linden would have to go in GodMode
[11:58] Questar Utu: Yeah, some things, if they lose connection while being told to do something, they will continue looping that command.
[11:58] Questar Utu: As far as I've seen anyway.
[11:59] Phantom Ninetails: Which is rather strange.
[11:59] Sahkolihaa Contepomi grumbles that it's been a month and he still hasn't got his L$ exchanged back. x.x;
[11:59] Questar Utu: It's like an on/off switch.
[11:59] Simon Linden: They don't handle getting everything over to the new sim, and re-assembling all the AVs and the vehicle itself in a way that's really reliable
[11:59] Arawn Spitteler: The kind of crosing crsh is ew, it doesn't send the avatr to the sim corner
[11:59] Questar Utu: You tell it to do something, it switches that command 'on'. You lose connection, and it never gets the cue to turn 'off'.
[12:00] Arawn Spitteler: All sorts of crap has to be sorted out. I'm wondering if I should add a delay, or if it's likely to be fixed.
[12:00] Phantom Ninetails: Actually I notice this effect with region crossing remote-controlled vehicles too. control event doesn't work across regions.
[12:00] Thank you for coming to Linden office hours
[12:01] Arawn Spitteler: RC across regions? How sent?
[12:01] Liisa Runo: control event
[12:01] Phantom Ninetails: Doesn't. Like I said, doesn't work across regions. Vehicle keeps going on last command.
[12:01] Liisa Runo: used to work, but long time since i played with it
[12:01] Andrew Linden: Yeah, I don't think RC vehicles work across region boundaries.
[12:01] Arawn Spitteler: Control Event used Remotely?
[12:01] Questar Utu: Sensors don't work properly across sim borders either, so I would assume it's related.
[12:02] Andrew Linden: Ok, I've got to go. Another meeting starts now, which I think I will bail because I've got this lock on the codebase right now.
[12:02] Liisa Runo: (control event dont require AV sittion on the prim)
[12:02] Liisa Runo: sitting*
[12:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: See you Andrew.
[12:02] Phantom Ninetails: Fare well Andrew
[12:02] Imaze Rhiano: bye
[12:02] Rex Cronon: tc andrw
[12:02] Questar Utu waves. "See you."
[12:02] Andrew Linden: thanks for coming
[12:02] Arawn Spitteler: Would HTTP_In help with controls? Mine is just an automatic WarpoPos Home code
[12:02] Uni Ninetails: ok take care and good luck!
[12:03] Simon Linden: I think if we had sensors running over region boundaries our internal netwrok would go up in smoke
[12:03] Maggie Darwin: Hmm.
[12:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Haha, I'd think so to, Simon.
[12:03] Phantom Ninetails: Arawn: Instead of having my remote controlled vehicles take control on sit, they take control on touch. It brings a blue permission request dialog.
[12:03] Melchizedek Blauvelt: Later peeps, got to run too
[12:03] Simon Linden: I have to run too ... thanks everyone for coming
[12:03] Uni Ninetails: tyty
[12:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: See you too, Simon.
[12:03] Maggie Darwin: @SlOfficeHours just announced this meeting was starting
[12:03] Imaze Rhiano: bye
[12:03] Arawn Spitteler has to go nuke some griefers: Thanks for coming. If Sensors could work across boundaries, the new sims woldn't ave as much to receive in serialization
[12:03] Rex Cronon: tc simon
[12:03] Phantom Ninetails: http_in is an interesting idea for controls..
[12:03] Rex Cronon: bey those that r leaving
[12:03] Uni Ninetails: better go faf about with some builds have a good day everyone!
[12:04] Liisa Runo: control event got nothing to do with sensors
[12:04] Simon Linden: bye all
[12:04] Phantom Ninetails: Fare well

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User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 09 22

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