User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 11 17

Transcript

[11:00] Simon Linden: Hello everyone
[11:00] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hi there Simon
[11:00] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Simon
[11:00] Simon Linden: Let me see if I can find Andrew...
[11:00] Welcome to Linden office hours
[11:00] Techwolf Lupindo: Had an inteasting weekend. On saterday, a popular event was held. Sim got full, but then everyone started to crash out. Every client was crashing, the continus re-loogs into the sim was too much and event was cancelled.
[11:01] Arawn Spitteler: Did someone reset the meeter?
[11:01] Simon Linden: In the meantime ... the 1.32.1 rollout is going today. Half of the grid has been updated
[11:01] Moon Metty: hey Andrew :)
[11:01] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Andrew
[11:01] Arawn Spitteler: Which are we under?
[11:01] Sebastean Steamweaver remembers to detach his JIRA-thing upon seeing Moon.
[11:01] Simon Linden: I re-did the schedule in the meeter for the time change
[11:01] Moon Metty: lol Seb
[11:01] Simon Linden: We
[11:02] Simon Linden: We're still on 1.32.0 here
[11:02] Techwolf Lupindo: Mine got crash twice, but due to the log-in pentely, only got re-logged once. But both time I was running gdb and got over 5,000 frames in the backtrace.
[11:02] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hello Andrew
[11:02] Simon Linden: Viewers were crashing too?
[11:02] Bronson Blackadder: yep
[11:02] Andrew Linden: Hello
[11:03] Skills Hak: oh hi
[11:03] Techwolf Lupindo: Yes, eveyone viewer was crashing, emerald and both SL and snowglobe. Secuity was crashing too.
[11:03] Skills Hak: hm what crash?
[11:03] Skills Hak: the anim crash?
[11:03] Techwolf Lupindo: But I made a fatle mistake, was too much trying to get back in and forgot to get a coredump.
[11:04] Arawn Spitteler: A funny thing happened, yesterday, that may or may not be relevant. I'd rezzed a bench, that others could sit on, but not I. In Burning Life, I was able to sit on a block in one sim, but not another. I'm wondering if a sim vagary might conspire with a client vagary
[11:04] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[11:04] Skills Hak: the uuid you gave me was a rather old anim crash which got fixed in 1.23 but we noticed there are a few new ones
[11:04] Techwolf Lupindo: But I talk to the staff yesterday and got more details of what happend back then. That when I found out eveyone was crashing, not just me and a few others.
[11:04] Skills Hak: fix is in emerald already but not released yet
[11:05] Skills Hak: it's a one liner
[11:05] Andrew Linden: Skills, what was the source of the crash? What was tickling it?
[11:05] Simon Linden: Thats odd Arawn. The sit code does some calculations based on the click spot and tries to find the surface to sit on. I don't know if that's been changed at all lately
[11:05] Rex Cronon: anybody been able to use crashme recently?
[11:05] Arawn Spitteler: Does Emerald close, on log off, the way the official viewers do?
[11:05] Techwolf Lupindo: But due to everyone re-logging into the sim, sim tossed cookies.
[11:05] Skills Hak: it was an animation crash, i can ask hold on
[11:06] Simon Linden: I haven't of Emerald doing anything particularly odd or different
[11:06] Phantom Ninetails: What crash? I missed the start of this conversation
[11:06] Moon Metty: it's impossible to sit on an unscripted seat inside the bounding-box of another prim
[11:06] Skills Hak: hmm looking in the source
[11:06] Arawn Spitteler: I was unable to sit on a sit friendly block, in Burning Life Limbo, bot not my own build at Burning Life Pyramid
[11:06] Rex Cronon: too bad that crashme exists in name only:(
[11:07] Simon Linden: Moon - that makes sense. The ray-cast to find the sit point would always hit the bounding-box then
[11:07] Techwolf Lupindo: Yea, CrashMe got moved to beta grid. Make it hard to test things due to inventroy issues.
[11:07] Moon Metty: but why can't it find the target prim?
[11:07] Skills Hak: BOOL LLKeyframeMotion::onActivate()

{

[11:07] Moon Metty: it can find it for right-click editing ..
[11:07] Techwolf Lupindo: If you get a crasher item from someone claiming this crashes sim, you go to beta grid and discovered you don't have that item anymore.
[11:07] Skills Hak: the line with emote is the fix
[11:07] Arawn Spitteler: Inside the bounding box? I'm not sure mine was, but was inside the bounding box of an object, but not a prim. Yesterday's was not in any bounding box, and others were able to sit
[11:08] Moon Metty: so why not for sitting?
[11:08] Skills Hak: llkeyframemotion.cpp
[11:08] Simon Linden: It must be different code paths to find what you're cliking on
[11:08] Moon Metty: and one of the code paths is bugged :)
[11:08] Techwolf Lupindo takes notes from Skills.
[11:08] Moon Metty: do you want me to look for the jira?
[11:09] Skills Hak: just add the "if(LLUUID(mJointMotionList->mEmoteName) != mID) "
[11:09] Arawn Spitteler: How often are te servers totally unplugged?
[11:09] Simon Linden: I'm not going to get any time on it, but if it's an easy fix it might be good push to Andrew...
[11:10] Arawn Spitteler: Are the Tech Five Servers now older than two years?
[11:10] Moon Metty: SVC-3806 , it was triaged a few weeks ago
[11:10] t work anymore inside the bounding box of a prim.
[11:10] Moon Metty: or that was last week lol
[11:10] Techwolf Lupindo: Thanks skills, going to patch mine client and add an console debug output of who's playing the band animation.
[11:11] Moon Metty: a seat with a sittarget works normally
[11:11] Arawn Graalrd whispers: Andrew Linden just touched me.
[11:12] Arawn Spitteler: A seat ith a sit target sits everybody in the same place, but don't tell Bastet that I mentioned it
[11:12] Moon Metty: hi Lone :)
[11:12] Andrew Linden: Arawn is that Garrison Keeler on your face?
[11:12] Arawn Spitteler: No, he just looks like me
[11:12] Andrew Linden: Ah ok.
[11:13] Andrew Linden: Ok, so there is a sit bug that is affecting one of the Burning Life regions
[11:13] Andrew Linden: and we think it is caused by a megaprim nearby?
[11:13] Arawn Spitteler: Not any more, the regions are closed. No Megaprims were allowed in BL
[11:13] Moon Metty: it doesn't have to be a megaprim
[11:14] Skills Hak: it could be a phantom megaprim
[11:14] Skills Hak: like mountains around a sim
[11:14] Sebastean Steamweaver: That's an issue that's been around for a while actually. I believe Stickman has brought it up before.
[11:14] Sebastean Steamweaver: Sitting in Aggro is difficult because of the megaprims they use for the scenery.
[11:14] Arawn Spitteler: Neither inside nor near my temple was I able to sit on a prim, but in another sim I was able to
[11:15] Sebastean Steamweaver: If the prim has a sit target, you can sit.
[11:15] Andrew Linden: Ok, so SVC-3806 is the bug we're talking about?
[11:15] Sebastean Steamweaver: But otherwise, it causes issues.
[11:15] Arawn Spitteler: It migt be a problem inside the bounding box or area of a target
[11:15] Skills Hak: you can use volumedetect for those prims btw, then it doesnt break sitting
[11:15] Moon Metty: there's a sister report ... SVC-3811, it was recently closed as a dupe
[11:15] Sit disabled on prims that are: inside a prim's bounding box (eg, phantom prim).
[11:16] Rex Cronon: i haven't been able to sit even if it has sit target
[11:16] Andrew Linden: The code that tries to find a place for you to sit uses some physics engine ray-trace checks
[11:16] s about to freeze for a little bit
[11:16] Sebastean Steamweaver: That fixes the sitting bug, Skills?
[11:16] Skills Hak: yyes
[11:16] Andrew Linden: I'll have to revisit that code.
[11:16] Sebastean Steamweaver: Interesting
[11:16] Phantom Ninetails: Sitting like that broke when we went from Havok1 to Havok4
[11:16] Skills Hak: but causes lag due to the collisions of course
[11:17] Andrew Linden: I think the ray traces do hit phantom objects -- required in order to allow avatars to sit on phantom objects.
[11:17] Andrew Linden: Right, it would have broken in the Havok4 transition.
[11:17] Moon Metty: well, it's not a showstopper of course
[11:17] Moon Metty: but many people run into the problem
[11:18] Phantom Ninetails: I liked sitting on weird things so I noticed it fairl quicky, but I figured it was intentional
[11:18] Moon Metty: if you don't know it is very confusing
[11:18] Skills Hak: well megaprims are unsupported ;)
[11:18] Moon Metty: it's not about megaprims Skills :)
[11:19] Rex Cronon: the same thing happens even with normal prims
[11:19] Sebastean Steamweaver: This is about any prim, really.
[11:19] Skills Hak: right
[11:19] Sebastean Steamweaver: I've expereinced the same thing with 10x10s
[11:19] Skills Hak: yea me too
[11:19] Sebastean Steamweaver: experienced*
[11:19] Andrew Linden: Ok, I'll keep it in mind. I'd love to say I'll look into it, but I've got two permissions bugs on my plate this week and will probably be too busy to look into sitting.
[11:19] Phantom Ninetails: It usually stops me from sitting on the seam between floor prims too.
[11:19] Sebastean Steamweaver: Well, according to Skills, we have a workaround for now anyway.
[11:19] Moon Metty: speaking of permission bugs
[11:19] Moon Metty: ...
[11:20] Moon Metty: Simon, Andrew, i gave you an object
[11:20] Moon Metty: if anyone else want it just say so
[11:21] Andrew Linden: yes, a "COMPLIMENTARY Long Stem Red ROSE :))"
[11:21] Moon Metty: if you rez it , the no-mod bit is unchecked and greeyed out
[11:21] Simon Linden: Since you just mentioned a permissions bug, I"m paranoid :)
[11:21] Moon Metty: but the other bits are still accessible
[11:21] Skills Hak: it will eat your inventory!
[11:21] Phantom Ninetails: lol
[11:21] Moon Metty: in inventory the object is full perm
[11:21] Moon Metty: Harleen says it's simply a slam bit
[11:22] Moon Metty: but i don't see how you could reproduce an object like this
[11:22] Rex Cronon: i had an object full perm in inventory, once rezzed no more full perms:(
[11:22] Sebastean Steamweaver: Probably because of items inside it.
[11:22] Sebastean Steamweaver: Isn't that a bug Andrew dealt with before?
[11:22] Rex Cronon: one single prim
[11:22] Moon Metty: SVC-5040 if i remember correct
[11:22] Script performance dropped on some regions since rolling restart (12 nov 2009)
[11:23] Moon Metty: oops
[11:23] Moon Metty: wrong dood
[11:23] Moon Metty: door
[11:23] Andrew Linden: Moon, it looks like somehow the "next owner" bits were set on the invnetory item, however the total perms depend on everything inside the object
[11:23] Sebastean Steamweaver: He said that anything created before the point of the fix, wouldn't be affected by the fix, you'd need to repackage.
[11:23] Andrew Linden: so, something inside was set to "no modify" (I think) and caused the total perms to bake on the next-owner transition
[11:24] Moon Metty: VWR-16097 that's the one
[11:24] Full Perm object changes to No Mod on its own after being rezzed
[11:24] Moon Metty: personally i think the object is corrupted
[11:24] Moon Metty: and we can't reproduce it with the current software
[11:24] Skills Hak: i think i've had it happen too, without any task inventory
[11:25] Moon Metty: the object was made in early may, right after there were some permission bugs
[11:25] Andrew Linden: yes, the inventory item is probably "corrupt" in the sense that some next-owner bits were allowed to be set (via the UI and the server didn't enforce them) that should have been disallowed.
[11:25] Moon Metty: and SVC-4378 is still around
[11:25] Change of permissions in inventory on recieved object limits current owner to Next Owner permissions
[11:26] Andrew Linden: However... a side effect is that I can modify the name of the item in inventory
[11:26] Andrew Linden: and rez a new copy that will get the new name, I think
[11:26] Moon Metty: yes
[11:26] Andrew Linden: yes, that works
[11:27] Moon Metty: Soft asked me to do a proposal to remove the ability to set object permissions in the inventory
[11:27] Moon Metty: but i don't know ...
[11:27] Techwolf Lupindo: Should the change permissin in inventory feature be dumped all togither due to soo many bugs and some of them are user bugs. Lot of creaters and shopowners are getting bit with handing out incorrect items by mistake.
[11:27] Andrew Linden: For inventory operations the perms stored in the inventory item are used when the perms need to be enforced
[11:27] Moon Metty: what about objects inside the inventory of other objects?
[11:27] Sebastean Steamweaver: -Remove- the ability to set object perms in inventory/
[11:27] Andrew Linden: Techwolf, unfortunately that won't be possible to drop inventory perms altogether.
[11:28] Andrew Linden: When you create an inv item... you have full perms (you're the creator).
[11:28] Sebastean Steamweaver: And things like scripts, and notecards, are only ever in inventory.
[11:28] Sebastean Steamweaver: Either the inventory of an object, or a user's inventory.
[11:29] Sebastean Steamweaver: Plus that would create a LOT of work for people.
[11:29] Andrew Linden: If you want to be able to change the perms in inventory then the inv settings won't necessarily agree with what is in the asset.
[11:29] Andrew Linden: Yeah. I guess the short answer is: it is actually better to fix the inventory permissions bugs than try to reimplement inv perms.
[11:29] Techwolf Lupindo: Seems like inventory perms are bug free for everything BUT objects.
[11:30] Moon Metty: yes, only objects have problems
[11:30] Sebastean Steamweaver: Objects are the only things which have their own inventories.
[11:30] Moon Metty: (i think lol)
[11:30] Moon Metty: you never know with permissions ...
[11:30] Phantom Ninetails: It would be nice if the inventory just used the same permission as the object in the asset server.
[11:30] office hours is half over
[11:30] Sebastean Steamweaver: Personally, I'd like to be able to browse objects like folders in inventory to make putting in/taking out/nesting things easier.
[11:31] Andrew Linden: Actually, I had an idea about how to write a python web tool that would enable inventory browsing.
[11:31] Rex Cronon: sebasten. i would like that too:)
[11:31] Techwolf Lupindo: Does the client connect to the sim for inventory or is there a seperate inventory server?
[11:31] Simon Linden: The info goes via the simulator
[11:32] Andrew Linden: Me and another LL dev were thinking about prototyping it just to see how hard that would be.
[11:32] Andrew Linden: The plan is to move inventory browsing to "web services" but I don't think that stuff has been fully removed from the simulator yet.
[11:32] Rex Cronon: so, now we will have to open a browser to edit objects inventories in the invetory. what about all that immersion stuff?
[11:32] Techwolf Lupindo: Inventory browsing via web. Would be nice if one could do a full search of any permenter, not just name. Be able to look into object contents, and search there too. :-)
[11:33] Sebastean Steamweaver: I think it'll still be handled by the viewer Rex.
[11:34] Sebastean Steamweaver: You'd just be accessing inventory info from a different souce, if I understand correctly.
[11:34] Andrew Linden: Forget immersion. Interoperability and flexibility are the new hotness.
[11:34] Techwolf Lupindo: The problem is the viewer has too many floater that you can NOT move to a second monitor.
[11:34] Rex Cronon: cool andrew. so can thecommunicate window be moved outside teh viewer window:)
[11:35] Andrew Linden: Yeah, I wonder when they'll allow the floaters to be in their own windows.
[11:35] Sebastean Steamweaver: SL is my desktop :P
[11:35] Skills Hak: needs complete UI rewrite :/
[11:35] Twisted Laws: "interoperability" makes them in the same window :(
[11:35] LSL Scientist: would be awesome, no more blind scripters ^^
[11:35] Twisted Laws: for all the different OS's
[11:35] Andrew Linden: Rex, it was just an idea on how to make the invetory browsable. We haven't started anything yet.
[11:36] Arawn Spitteler: Wouldnt most UI be Client Side?
[11:36] Andrew Linden: er... browsable via a web interface.
[11:36] Phantom Ninetails: People script using the viewer's built in script editor? Madness!
[11:36] Andrew Linden: But... suppose all the inventory UI went to web pages and we could easily render web pages inside a floater..
[11:36] Sebastean Steamweaver: I sometimes do just because I get tired of having to copy paste all the time.
[11:36] Kaluura Boa: There's no better place to test scripts than in-world
[11:37] Skills Hak: oh that would rock
[11:37] Andrew Linden: Then we could host the inventory interface, and pull a bunch of code out of the viewer.
[11:37] Skills Hak: do that with groups first !
[11:37] Rex Cronon: lets see how it works
[11:37] Skills Hak: theres so much useless group UI
[11:37] Skills Hak: bloating the viewer
[11:37] Sebastean Steamweaver: Well, Andrew, in order for thta to work, web page rendering in the viewer would have to not lag the client.
[11:37] Skills Hak: mmm floaters with webbased UI
[11:37] Skills Hak: ツ
[11:37] Sebastean Steamweaver: Currently the built-in browser causes my client to lag.
[11:38] Phantom Ninetails: Inventory through the web seems like it would make it hard to rez things.
[11:38] Andrew Linden: Moving UI to web pages wasn't my idea... we've been talking about that for a long time around the lab.
[11:38] Arawn Spitteler wonders if svc-22 and svc-93 have yet had ritual mention: Web Page Rendering, ike with Profiles and Groups?
[11:38] Vehicles crossing region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[11:38] ROTATION and llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[11:38] Andrew Linden: I thought we were already working on it, but haven't seen much progress there.
[11:39] Skills Hak: it would be really hard for 3rd party devs to enhance the UI and add functions though
[11:39] Andrew Linden: Yeah, I wonder how drag-n-drop rezzing would work with a web inventory UI.
[11:39] Skills Hak: but really compfortable for the LL devs
[11:40] Sebastean Steamweaver: Andrew, just checking in: any news on a PosJump replacement?
[11:40] Andrew Linden: Good point Skills. The inventory would still need an "API" that 3rd parties could use.
[11:40] Kaluura Boa: No hurry... It's fixed in the new server... We can wait
[11:41] Andrew Linden: No PosJump replacement has been written, however I forked a copy of our code in our new mercurial (version control system) this morning.
[11:41] LSL Scientist hugs
[11:41] Andrew Linden: It is in this fork where I'll be doing the work for MISC-3077, including a PosJump replacement.
[11:41] List of Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions With Large Returns
[11:41] Techwolf Lupindo: How is the movement to hg comming along?
[11:42] Andrew Linden: btw, I won't be doing ALL of MISC-3077 in that project. We'll pick a subset of things and get those done.
[11:42] Andrew Linden: Then deliver the rest later.
[11:42] Sebastean Steamweaver hugs Andrew, since he's right next to him.
[11:43] Skills Hak: i thought you moved to GIT
[11:43] Andrew Linden: Movement to mercurial (hg) is slow. I was struggling with it today because I misunderstood how it worked.
[11:43] Andrew Linden: no, we're not using git
[11:43] Ovaltine Constantine doesnt know what that is
[11:43] Arawn Spitteler: What'sGIT?
[11:43] Mojito Sorbet: oPENsIM IS THE ONE THAT USES git
[11:43] Techwolf Lupindo: If I remember correctory, the movement to hg was due to how it handle merging of branches better.
[11:43] Mojito Sorbet: oops
[11:43] Sebastean Steamweaver: PosJump, llSet/GetObjectScale, and perhaps llSetLinkListPrimitive params would be my votes for the toplist.
[11:44] Mojito Sorbet: GIT is yet another source management system
[11:44] LSL Scientist: and removal of all silly 0.2+ delays that serve no purpose
[11:44] Andrew Linden: hg (mercurial), git, svn, cvs, peforce -- these are all "version control systems" that allow multiple people to edit source code at the same time
[11:44] Techwolf Lupindo: Git is use by teh linux kernel group. But the linux kernel is a lot more modular then LL code.
[11:44] Arawn Spitteler: llGetPrimitiveParams and llGetLinkPrimitiveParams should be high priority
[11:45] Mojito Sorbet: OPenSimulator also uses GIT
[11:45] Sebastean Steamweaver: llGetPrimitiveParams?
[11:45] Mojito Sorbet: (as of this year)
[11:45] Sebastean Steamweaver: We already have llGetPrimitiveParams
[11:45] Andrew Linden: Yes, those are on the list.
[11:45] Arawn Spitteler: When did that happen?
[11:45] Sebastean Steamweaver: o.0
[11:45] Andrew Linden: Yeah, but many people want those methods expanded to handle more data
[11:46] Sebastean Steamweaver: llGetPrimtiveParams has been around for ages.
[11:46] Rex Cronon: we could do object animation much better without delays from llsetlinkprimprams:)
[11:46] Sebastean Steamweaver: Well, Rex, personally, I liked Andrew's idea of keyframed movement.
[11:46] Andrew Linden: I think it is llGetLinkPrimitiveParams() that people want
[11:46] Sebastean Steamweaver: Yes Andrew
[11:46] Moon Metty: removing the delay will cause a much higher network bandwidth
[11:46] Rex Cronon: that keyframed hing i not implemented yet:(
[11:46] Moon Metty: as each prim update is 1 kB
[11:47] Rex Cronon: thing is not*
[11:47] Andrew Linden: oh yeah... animated keyframed motion -- that would be cool. I always forget about that idea.
[11:47]
[11:47] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'll be happy to remind you Andrew. It was your idea after all :D
[11:47] Moon Metty: only position updates are a little cheaper
[11:47] Moon Metty: and rotation
[11:48] LSL Scientist: about the delays: nonphys prim with giant pile of sub scripts to beat the dealy, lag lot less than physical prim or walking AV, so i really dont see the point of having the delay
[11:48] Sebastean Steamweaver: As Babbage has said, there are better ways to throttle things than Delays. I can see the reason for them, but I have to agree, there are better ways.
[11:48] Skills Hak looks forward to 2012 when you will get around to removing them :P
[11:48] Arawn Spitteler: I always thought llGetPP was an obvious absense. When did htat change?
[11:49] Moon Metty: maybe people are just asking too much of the SL software
[11:49] Moon Metty: like jewelry with 255 detailed sculpties
[11:49] Phantom Ninetails: I sure do love the delay added to lldialog
[11:49] Sebastean Steamweaver: That's not a scripting matter though.
[11:49] Phantom Ninetails: That sure fixed nothing at all.
[11:49] Sebastean Steamweaver: That's a building problem.
[11:50] Andrew Linden: brb -- got to set something up for someone who is testing
[11:50] Arawn Spitteler: It's a building problem, but a software problem
[11:50] Sebastean Steamweaver: In any case, babbage has already said that new functions won't have delays. There may be a "that I know of" hanging in that, but he didn't state it.
[11:51] Sebastean Steamweaver: He prefers to throttle them, rather than delay them.
[11:51] Phantom Ninetails: Why did they add a delay to lldialog then?
[11:51] Sebastean Steamweaver: That would solve the issue in a different manner.
[11:51] Phantom Ninetails: ...
[11:51] Sebastean Steamweaver: You mean llLoadURL?
[11:51] Phantom Ninetails: lldialog never had a delay until relatively recently
[11:51] Simon Linden: I"m not sure about lldialog, but I'd guess for a flooding or griefing problem
[11:51] Sebastean Steamweaver: To stop spamming probably.
[11:51] Phantom Ninetails: It didn't stop spamming
[11:51] Sebastean Steamweaver: llLoadURL has a 10 second delay
[11:51] Phantom Ninetails: lldialog spammers still cause client crashes
[11:51] Sebastean Steamweaver: llDialog doesn't have a delay that I know of.
[11:51] Phantom Ninetails: Yes it does
[11:52] Phantom Ninetails: They added a delay to it
[11:52] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hmm
[11:52] Phantom Ninetails: It is at least 1 second long
[11:52] Kaluura Boa: A "mute" button on the dialogs would be more useful than any delay to fight the grieffers
[11:52] LSL Scientist: yea, didnt stop spam, or crash with it, mute owner + relog still fails, you get raped with dialog over and over again
[11:52] Phantom Ninetails: The delay does not stop spam, the spam is still more than enough to crash viewers
[11:52] Sebastean Steamweaver: VWR-2502
[11:52] Twisted Laws: owner of the dialog isn't passed with the dialog by key so the muting is not simple
[11:52] Add mute button to script notices
[11:53] Techwolf Lupindo: My vote goes for SVC-742 as the first one to do on that branch. (lag)
[11:53] Remove the unassisted fly height limit.
[11:53] Phantom Ninetails: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6964
[11:53] Muting object (or object owner) does not mute dialogs
[11:53] Rex Cronon: maybe in the prferenc s we ould sy thatwe don't want to recieve more than 5 dialog per sc:)
[11:54] Simon Linden: yeah, I'd be happy to get rid of that flight limit ... I wonder how many people would shoot through the roof if it was turned off
[11:54] Andrew Linden: back
[11:54] Arawn Spitteler: If we'r going to play with Mute, Animations and Clothing could also be mutant
[11:54] Sebastean Steamweaver: At some point Simon, people need to take off the training wheels ;)
[11:54] Skills Hak: prokofy would foam and rage for sure
[11:54] Techwolf Lupindo: Simon, that is one bug/feature that I don't think anyone would mind if it broke content.
[11:54] Moon Metty: lol Skills
[11:54] Skills Hak: and call it a griefing tool
[11:54] Twisted Laws: server messages to viewer should contain source owner key for everything that is sent.
[11:54] Sebastean Steamweaver: Perhaps make it optional.
[11:55] Sebastean Steamweaver: With the default set to "On"
[11:55] Simon Linden: I can just imagine the day we turn that off, and everyone with a flight assist on the way to the skybox just starts accelerating upwards ...
[11:55] Twisted Laws: should = need to be changed to ...
[11:55] Sebastean Steamweaver: The day the world fel-err . . . flew.
[11:55] Ardy Lay: Simon, sounds like great fun.
[11:55] office hours is almost over
[11:55] Skills Hak: ah right
[11:55] Ardy Lay: Do it!
[11:55] Techwolf Lupindo: Simon, only untill word get out that everyone can dump the feathers.
[11:55] Sebastean Steamweaver: As I said, make it optional.
[11:55] Sebastean Steamweaver: People can turn it on or off as they need to.
[11:56] Rex Cronon: if u provide the brakes would e evenbetter)
[11:56] Andrew Linden: Hrm... the avatar motion on land needs overhaul too.
[11:56] Andrew Linden: If we made the "change" optional then we could do both at the same time.
[11:56] LSL Scientist: sapace = brake
[11:56] LSL Scientist: space*
[11:57] Andrew Linden: I think there is a 1.32.1 pilot happening this week. That's on a public status web page somewhere right?
[11:58] Sebastean Steamweaver: It's already happened.
[11:58] Simon Linden: Half the grid got rolled this morning
[11:58] Moon Metty: yes, the rollout has already started
[11:58] Sebastean Steamweaver: I was in a region as it rolled out earlier.
[11:58] Simon Linden: Other half is tomorrow
[11:58] Andrew Linden: oh really? ok good
[11:58] Techwolf Lupindo: http://status.secondlifegrid.net/2009/11/17/post803/
[11:58] Arawn Spitteler: How are the animations triggered? They can be determined by the scripts, so it must be server side, but the Animation Overriders shouldn't have to pole
[11:58] Sebastean Steamweaver: Wouldn't it be nice, if there was a script event for each avatar state/action?
[11:59] Techwolf Lupindo: AO can be fixed by having animations REplacement, not override.
[11:59] Arawn Spitteler: /me
[11:59] Sebastean Steamweaver seconds TEch
[11:59] Andrew Linden: I don't know much about the animation state system and AO. But yes, it should be replacement rather than override.
[11:59] Sebastean Steamweaver: Having to script something so that it literally fights the server for animation is just . . . a bad way of doing things.
[11:59] d also like object followers, which would handle the joint problem, and simplify saddles
[12:00] Andrew Linden: Too bad Richard Linden doesn't hold office hours. He could tell you about his animation plans that he can't work on for Viewer-2.0.
[12:00] Skills Hak: that would ruin my clientside AO :<
[12:00] Skills Hak: lol
[12:00] Simon Linden: yeah, I've been in some good brainstorming sessions on that ... we could definitely reduce script load by re-designing animation triggers, or adding features that AOs do already
[12:00] Thank you for coming to Linden office hours
[12:01] Andrew Linden: I've got to go. I've got another meeting that starts now.
[12:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: Letting avatars sit on other avatars' attachments would also simplify saddles :D
[12:01] Rex Cronon: tc andrew
[12:01] Andrew Linden: Thanks for coming everyone.
[12:01] Cerdita Piek: Thanks Andrew, take care
[12:01] Moon Metty: yeah, thanks Andrew
[12:01] Skills Hak: bbye
[12:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: Thank you for the hours Andrew and Simon
[12:01] Moon Metty: and thank you Simon :)
[12:01] Arcane Laval: Bye bye!
[12:01] Simon Linden: I have to run too ... thanks all for coming
[12:01] Twisted Laws: thanks and bye
[12:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: And Fisher
[12:01] Phantom Ninetails: Fare well
[12:01] Simon Linden: bye

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User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 11 17

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