User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 12 01

Transcript

[11:00]	Welcome to	Linden office hours
[11:00]	Gnome Inkpen:	Friendly greetings! :D
[11:00]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[11:00]	Simon Linden:	Arawn - is there anything else pushing it?
[11:01]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Hey Andrew.
[11:01]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I guess assets are still struggling.
[11:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Simon, Sasy, et al. Yes, it uses local propulsion, and tries to point in the direction of camera angle
[11:01]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I see a lot of grey people.
[11:01]	Ashiri Sands:	hi Andrew
[11:01]	Sasy Scarborough:	what is being done to the grid today ?
[11:01]	Simon Linden:	yeah, it's pretty slow to rez today
[11:01]	Sasy Scarborough:	hi Arawn :) and everyone
[11:01]	Andrew Linden:	Hello everyone.
[11:02]	Arcane Laval:	Yeah I noticed it too
[11:02]	Rex Cronon:	hello andrew
[11:02]	Arcane Laval:	Hiya
[11:02]	Sasy Scarborough:	slow to rez, its taken me 7.5 hours to do three pictures THREE
[11:02]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Andrew has the most basic avatar here yet he's still grey.
[11:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi,m Andrew
[11:02]	Simon Linden:	server 'pending downloads' is really low, however
[11:02]	Gnome Inkpen:	Hello Andrew! :D
[11:02]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Andrew
[11:02]	Rex Cronon:	i see only 3 people
[11:02]	Sasy Scarborough	is very cranky :(
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... what is happening to the grid today? I wasn't aware of any activity
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	but I haven't beenn paying attention to the right channels.
[11:03]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[11:03]	Ashia Tomsen:	I keep getting "object not found in database" errors
[11:03]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	It's been like this since this morning for me.
[11:03]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	And I'm speaking 6:30AM GMT.
[11:03]	Sasy Scarborough:	cant attach, cant rez textures, cant wear things saying not in databasae
[11:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is server pending downloads something that should make communications easier? There might be a normality upstream from that.
[11:03]	Rex Cronon:	when i logged in, it said i can't rez some object
[11:04]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I actually had the "Assets didn't respond in a timely fashion. Object returned to sim." just before this meeting.
[11:04]	Sasy Scarborough:	when i logged in i got all those lovely cant load gestures, i dont even use my gestures, but something is seriously borked
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	The Server Pending Downloads is how many files the server is fetching from the back-end. If that's backed up (a high number, and not going down) then the server isn't getting the textures and stuff from the asset system
[11:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	It took a while to rez a one prim vehicle, earlier, when I was testing my floatation method
[11:05]	Sasy Scarborough:	its just taken me forty minutes to rez the bottom half of these boots, same texture as the top of them, and its an all in one attachment
[11:05]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Well hello Fisher.
[11:05]	Arawn Spitteler:	If they're the same texture, shouldn'tthe client simply have asked a single key?
[11:05]	Gnome Inkpen:	Took about 8 minutes to take a single 1prim no copy object into my inventory. Seems to be getting better now though
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	Well, I don't see any relevant chatter going on at the moment
[11:05]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Fiosher
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	but I had limited time to scrollback
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	I'll keep an eye on it and offer any info if I get some.
[11:06]	Fisher Linden:	Hey
[11:06]	Arcane Laval:	Hey Fisher
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	I think server-1.34 is in testing this week, and will probably roll out on pilot next week, or the one after that.
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	Meanwhile, these bugs have fixes pending -- for server 1.36 -- but not yet past QA or merged:
[11:08]	Fisher Linden:	oops. Gotta go!
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	SVC-1638
[11:08]	New flag	PARCEL_DETAILS_UUID
[11:08]	Rex Cronon:	tc
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	SVC-1669
[11:08]	time is	added to seat
[11:08]	Gnome Inkpen:	Take care, Fisher. :)
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	SVC-571
[11:08]	Communication functions	other than llSay output to main chat when using DEBUG_CHANNEL
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	also SVC-1174 but that bug fix is causing some problems so it might not make it.
[11:09]	returns nonsensical	values for attachments on avatars sitting on objects
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	Oh, and some bugs were fixed in server-1.34... one of the "groups show up as (???) (???)" bugs (there is more than one way to trigger that)
[11:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	If the avatar is sitting, isn't the entire object included in bounding box?
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, no I think the bounding box will be that of the avatar, not the seat or the attachment.
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	and SVC-5025 -- fixed in server-1.34
[11:11]	When taking	copies of groups of prims for a coalesced item, if any prim is named "Object," the whole coalesced item will be called "Object" in inventory, even if the last prim selected has a different name.
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	ok that is all the news on bug fixes
[11:11]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, I noticed that one last night
[11:11]	Ovaltine Constantine:	What does "Server crash modes fixed" mean? (Or is it a secret)
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, the design of what that call does in that circumstance was up for debate
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	and I think the decision was to apply the question to the avatar -- several other LSL methods do that.
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	Ovaltine, where are you reading "server crash modes"?
[11:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	That would be a whopper, since it wold rename the root prim. I recall lslwiki as saying, that the bounding box would incolude the object sat on.
[11:13]	Ovaltine Constantine:	On the 1.34 release notes
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	The exact crash modes would be secret yes. We wouldn't want to propagate repro recipies for those if we can help it.
[11:13]	LSL Scientist:	BB of avatar includes the seated object, tested
[11:14]	Simon Linden:	I know one of those, and it wasn't really a secret or something that was easy to reproduce. Sometimes we just find and fix a problem that's buried deep in the system ... this was with some parcel accounting
[11:14]	Arawn Spitteler:	In order to prevent griefing, server crash modes will remain secreet, until an asset protection error is found in the fix
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	LSL Scientist, the BB of the seated avartar... you tested that where? Which server version?
[11:15]	LSL Scientist:	cant remember what server versions, but never seen any change in it, i thought it was expected behavior
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	Meh, I should read the bug more carefully. I was just announcing the ones I could see in the logs.
[11:16]	LSL Scientist:	but the jira was about attachments BB
[11:16]	Kaluura Boa:	Weird I used it once in a cair to find the size of seated AV
[11:16]	Kaluura Boa:	chair*
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	I'll read the avatar BB bugs later. I'm going to skip over that bug fix anyway initially, it is causing a build error that isn't really its fault.
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	Sorry, I forgot to announce last Tuesday that there would be no office hours on Thursday.
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	Er... last Thursday (Thanksgiving).
[11:18]	Rex Cronon:	i don't think that a lot of peope expected u to come here full of turkey:)
[11:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think Last Thusday was Tanksgiving; Sorry I couldn't mke it. Did you post the transcript?
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	Hehe, not posted yet.
[11:19]	Rex Cronon:	hmm?
[11:19]
[11:20]	Rex Cronon:	so there was an OH on thursday?
[11:20]	Ardy Lay:	Andrew, you mentioned you wanted color in your transcripts. Did you see the last one I posted?
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	No, I was just figuring that Arawn was making a joke.
[11:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is it an office hour, if nobody coms?
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	Ardy, no I haven't seen it.
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	Ardy, did you use an online formatter again?
[11:21]	Luisa Bourgoin:	it's a meeting still - just with short attendance list
[11:21]	Gnome Inkpen:	Arawn, kinda like if a prim falls in an empy mainland region, is it still a prim falling? :P
[11:21]	Ardy Lay:	Yes, one of the two I mentioned last time: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Kuraiko_Yoshikawa/SLog_Wikifier
[11:21]	Simon Linden:	The meeter object will stlll make noise
[11:21]	Luisa Bourgoin	closely observes the BS-meter needle
[11:22]	Arawn Spitteler:	If a prim falls in an inactive sim, does it still collide with ground?
[11:22]	Ardy Lay:	Any interest in this one? SVC-522
[11:22]	Default script	should NOT use llSay() for Hello Avatar; use llOwnerSay() instead.
[11:22]	Kaluura Boa:	Yes, please!
[11:22]	Luisa Bourgoin:	it's a good one!
[11:22]	LSL Scientist:	yea, neat lil adjustment
[11:22]	Ardy Lay:	Vote it up.
[11:22]	Xugu Madison:	Not just quieter, also teaches better practices to newbies
[11:22]	Ashiri Sands:	definately
[11:22]	Arawn Spitteler:	Sounds like a feature request; I just let my classes be noisy
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, that looks cool Ardy. I need to write a python script that will do that formatting.
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... that default script was written before llOwnerSay() existed.
[11:24]	Johan Laurasia:	well, plus isn't that script sort of SL's 'Hello World' script?
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	I'm curious what the vote ratio would be on that one.
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	I suppose I should read the comments to see what people are saying.
[11:24]	Johan Laurasia:	personally, I wouldn't want it to change
[11:24]	Arawn Spitteler:	Noob attempts to program, other people can't hear, what's the benefit?
[11:24]
[11:25]	Kaluura Boa:	Less spam
[11:25]	Johan Laurasia:	might be in a busy inviroment, I'm typically alone, or just teaching one on one.
[11:25]	Simon Linden:	well, there are two llSay() commands in there, so maybe we could just change one :)
[11:25]	Gnome Inkpen:	I'd like to see it go to llOwnerSay() just to show best practices but as someone mentioned it's the SL equivilant to a hello world app
[11:25]
[11:25]	LSL Scientist:	new test: My BB when sitting: <-4.000001, -4.750003, -0.650000>, <4.000001, 4.959000, 1.391479>
[11:25]	Gnome Inkpen:	Which is always fun
[11:25]	Rex Cronon:	actually i do't wan the dfault scrpt t say aything if that line would ecome commet it would beeven better
[11:25]	Rex Cronon:	:)
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	Well, traditionally the "Hello World" of any programming language actually prints something.
[11:26]	Gnome Inkpen:	Wouldn't it perhaps be better to have the default script commented? Which also shows some good best practices
[11:26]	Johan Laurasia:	right, my point
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	Which is why I think that one was written.
[11:27]	Simon Linden:	FWIW I did hear some news from Babbage as he's looking into the mono script rezzing issue. He's made some progress in locating the slowdown, but there are no magic quick fixes there
[11:27]	Gnome Inkpen:	Good point Andrew, but it still is. Just not spamming others
[11:27]	Ovaltine Constantine:	One could write a script that listens for objects that say "Hello, Avatar!" and then send the owner a message that says "I see you're making a new script"...it'd really freak people out
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	Oh right. Thanks Simon for mentioning that.
[11:27]	Ashiri Sands:	has been done, Ovaltine
[11:27]	Ardy Lay:	Was it named "Clippy"?
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	lol
[11:28]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Yes it has been done, by me
[11:28]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Teehee
[11:28]	Simon Linden:	I wonder if there's a Clippy avatar available...
[11:28]
[11:28]	Ardy Lay:	Simon, I suspect a Clippy avatar would be the victim of many hate crimes.
[11:29]
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	I think the default script should have at least one comment in it too.
[11:29]	Arawn Spitteler:	I seemto be earing rumors, that event queue is getting deleted, if the object sleeps for 60 seconds
[11:29]	Simon Linden:	yeah, I guess that's the equivalent of walking around with a big 'Hit Me" note on your back
[11:29]	Luisa Bourgoin:	you will *never* pull an even draw on this matter. make the default scrit something taken fro DEBUG variable, so people can overide it if they wish
[11:30]	office hours	is half over
[11:30]	Gnome Inkpen:	We should make a huge clippy statue
[11:30]	Arcane Laval:	Aww Clippy, I think he was cute :P
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, that sounds like an untrue rumor to me.
[11:30]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is Avatar a surname? It might be popular
[11:31]	Arcane Laval:	It's a movie at least
[11:31]	Multi Gadget	v1.58.0 by Timeless Prototype
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	The main reason is that if I were trying to make such a change I would expect a great deal of broken content, and would get a horde of other Linden's on my case.
[11:31]	Luisa Bourgoin:	to my observance, you can disable/enable a script and pending listen events will arrive
[11:31]	Arawn Spitteler:	It's on Advanced Scripters of Second Life, researching at this time.
[11:31]	Arcane Laval:	Whoo Linden cat fight!
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	Did anyone mention SVC-22 yet? And SVC-93?
[11:32]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[11:32]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[11:33]	Arawn Spitteler:	Have you tried that recently, Luisa? It might jsut be a borkedness dejour
[11:33]	Arawn Spitteler:	In my flights of my ground vehicle, I kept getting my vehicle returned, that way
[11:34]	Luisa Bourgoin:	not recently, just popped up inside my memory
[11:34]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Is 22 the reason why, when Im on my phantom stander (An NPV) and I try to "region-cross into banned parcel" it gets returned, and I can't move cuz it still has my control permission?
[11:34]	Arawn Spitteler:	We don't know if it's Server Side, or borkedness of the day
[11:34]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is it a vehicle?
[11:34]	Johan Laurasia:	What about L$ loss? A friend of mine lost 50k, does anyone know what's going on with that?
[11:35]	Simon Linden:	Ovaltine ... if it's a vehicle, yes, it's related
[11:35]	Arawn Spitteler:	Can't unsit from a returned vehicle? I thought that was just the crossing bug
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	I haven't heard of any L$ loss issues yet.
[11:35]	Simon Linden:	The region crossing code with vehicles is complicated ... it essentially takes you off the vehicle, transfers everyone over, and puts it all back together (hopefully)
[11:35]	Luisa Bourgoin:	PRIM_ROTATION is just wicked on huds. where one has been used to llGetRootRation, suddenly llGetLocalRot() is advised
[11:36]	Johan Laurasia:	a friend of my reported it, her account wasnt hacked, and her transaction log doesnt show the money going anywhere, it's just gone.
[11:36]	Simon Linden:	So if something goes wrong along the way, we end up with all the problems we're seeing today
[11:36]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	Only L$ loss issue I heard of so far was someone who joined a group that charged group fees, and didn't realize it
[11:37]	Johan Laurasia:	no, the transaction log doesnt show the money going anyhwere, it just disappeared.
[11:37]	Gnome Inkpen:	Melchizedek, it's good to mention. That, that case isn't really L$ loss, just wasn't aware of it
[11:37]	Luisa Bourgoin:	filed on "rip offs"
[11:39]	Arawn Spitteler:	If the vehicles would remember their links, they could request the teleports of those avatars already sitting.
[11:39]	Ardy Lay:	"Missing money|transactions" == "contact support".
[11:39]	Kaluura Boa:	They do... sometimes
[11:39]	Johan Laurasia:	she did put in a tciket on it
[11:40]	Arawn Spitteler:	Losing othger people's money is a common anxiety, and it causes a lot of mistakes in that field
[11:43]	Kaluura Boa:	1 minute of silence for the lost prims...
[11:43]	Ardy Lay:	Andrew, I am beeing harassed by zero-day accounts taking advantage of SEC-431. Any news on that one?
[11:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	What'sthe repro for SEC-431? The Meeter isn't saying
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	Ok I'm back. I was looking into the L$ loss issue. I didn't find any evidence of it, but I only went back 4 days or so.
[11:44]	Johan Laurasia:	thanks for looking into it Andrew
[11:45]	LSL Scientist:	SECret ;)
[11:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	Any remedies for an avatar thatfailed to log off?
[11:45]	Arcane Laval:	Actually what's normal procedure when loss of L$ happens? Support Ticket?
[11:45]	Gnome Inkpen:	Region restarts, Arawn
[11:45]	Gnome Inkpen:	Thats about it
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	Yes Arcane you have to get a support ticket.
[11:45]	Arcane Laval:	Okay
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	I don't do support, but I often fix bugs for our support team
[11:46]	Rex Cronon:	u could AR governor lindens ad say he stole yourmonies:)
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	so I'm interested in knowing what sort of things are happening.
[11:46]	Arcane Laval:	Yeah naturally :)
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, the failure to logoff problem. I've seen one report of that somewhere.
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	Who is having trouble logging off?
[11:47]	Johan Laurasia:	off to RL work everyone... Adios.
[11:47]	Arcane Laval:	I had that right before the office hour started
[11:47]	Kaluura Boa:	It was me! I stayed 3 days without being able to log in because my AV refused to leave SL
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks for coming Johan.
[11:47]	Gnome Inkpen:	Take Johan
[11:47]	Gnome Inkpen:	Take care*
[11:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	Gabby Oldrich says he can't ge his at logged off.
[11:48]	Arcane Laval:	I logged off fine, but when relogging I had to wait till my avi was fully logged out
[11:48]	Ashiri Sands:	I thought that logoff failre occurred to most people at least once
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	Right, I've seen that one before, but the logout usually completes in 5 min or so.
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	I think I saw a report of an account that never showed up as logged out.
[11:48]	Kaluura Boa:	Not failure but slowliness, yes
[11:49]	Arcane Laval:	Yeah slowliness is all I could determine
[11:49]	Ashiri Sands:	no, i meant failure... I know that busy sims are often restarted to log off ghosted avs
[11:50]	Arawn Spitteler:	Has Tenera been restarted, recently? I bumped into some ghost prims there.
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	No Tenera has has a long uptime.
[11:52]	Arawn Spitteler:	I used a collider, to AR the ghosted prim keys. I don't know if that's the way to do it.
[11:52]	Arawn Spitteler:	Volunteer HQ, six hour return time
[11:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	If I go back, I won't be able to find them, if they aren't there any longer
[11:54]	Arawn Spitteler:	Halting Problem = Can't prove a negtative
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	huh.. those keys might be useful if an LL dev could look into it in a timely manner
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	each object has a unique key, and that key is visible in the backups
[11:54]	Arawn Spitteler:	I don't know if G-Team would have thought to pass that on
[11:55]	Gnome Inkpen:	Yes, what is the procedure when running into ghosted avs? Sinces it's not really classified as an 'abuse' situtation. Waste of region resources perhaps
[11:55]	office hours	is almost over
[11:55]	Ardy Lay:	Assuming the question was missed, I'll ask again: I am beeing harassed by zero-day accounts taking advantage of SEC-431. Any news on that one?
[11:55]	LSL Scientist:	i guess the dev team can create the ghost prim with instructions in the SEC, and then study it
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	lemme see...
[11:55]	Simon Linden:	I didn't see any new comments in that jira, Ardy
[11:56]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is it possible to comment on an SEC?
[11:56]	Ardy Lay:	I was told it was a duplicate of an older report but I can't look at the older one for activity.
[11:56]	Simon Linden:	Right, that's all I see in there
[11:57]	Ardy Lay:	I ended up selling my land.
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	Ardy, SEC-431 is a region border crossing issue, similar to SVC-22. No progress on that yet.
[11:58]	Arawn Spitteler:	Wandering Gabe, seems to be the still-logged in. Location unknown
[11:58]	Ashiri Sands:	not knowing the location is a poroblem
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, that is the name of the alt that cannot be logged off?
[12:00]	Thank you	for coming to Linden office hours
[12:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	What is Media_Plugin_Webkit? I get occassional complaints on tha one.
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Where are the complaints coming from? viewer user interface?
[12:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	That's what I'm told, just sent a TP
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, I made a note about Wandering Gabe. I'll try to look into it if I can find a spare moment in the day.
[12:01]	Ardy Lay:	Arawn, that's the new media plugin version of Snowglobe, I think. Still needs work.
[12:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	What would a forced TP do, if a sim restart would work
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, I've got to run to another meeting.
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks for coming everyone.
[12:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	I keep getting media plugin failusres, that don't seem to effect anything
[12:02]	Ashiri Sands:	bye Andrew
[12:02]	Arcane Laval:	Bye bye
[12:02]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone ... see you next time

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