User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 01 05

Transcript

[11:00]	Welcome to	Linden office hours
[11:00]	Erinyse Planer	chuckles
[11:00]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Simon will be here, he's just at a small meeting. :p
[11:00]	Erinyse Planer:	andrew is probably with him
[11:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	Oh, is he now a Tiny?
[11:00]	Johan Laurasia:	who, SImon?
[11:01]	Erinyse Planer	whacks arawn on the back of the head
[11:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	Someone said he was at a small meeting
[11:01]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Heh.
[11:01]	Da5id Kronfeld:	Whoosh :)
[11:01]	Johan Laurasia:	duh, lol
[11:01]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, right over my head..lol
[11:02]	Sacha Swindlehurst:	hello
[11:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	It wouldn't be bad, if we could send TP requests, that included what class of avie to wear
[11:02]	Johan Laurasia:	hey Sacha
[11:02]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	Hi Sacha
[11:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	Avies should also include Gesture Selections
[11:02]	Erinyse Planer:	nope it would be fun... easier for me to ignore it lol
[11:02]	Johan Laurasia:	well, you can in so much as you can type a line of text to go with the TP
[11:03]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Hey Andrew.
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	hello
[11:03]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Andrew
[11:03]	Sacha Swindlehurst:	hi andrew
[11:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	If yoiur wardrobe changed in transit, then you wouldn't have to change on one side or the other, and it would save on some corners
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	Simon says he'll be a little late.
[11:04]	Johan Laurasia:	a 'tiny' bit late
[11:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	Oh, no! He's a Tiny Zombie?
[11:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	I'll have to suggest tha to Sooden
[11:04]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Here he is.
[11:04]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Welcome back, Simon.
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	Hello
[11:05]	Sacha Swindlehurst:	hello simon
[11:05]	LSL Scientist:	VWR-6964 SVC-422
[11:05]	Muting object	(or object owner) does not mute dialogs
[11:05]	A solution	to scams, money theft - etc. New parcels Flag "Block Transactions
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	About 40 minutes ago I got the "merge lock" on our trunk branch for merging a bunch of maint-server branches
[11:05]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[11:05]	Erinyse Planer:	hi andrew. sorry to have to inform you , your nemisis is back *pulls out her list of jiras*
[11:05]	s greeter	says: Hello Sacha, Xugu, Questar, Johan, Sahkolihaa, Arawn, Lazrith, Da5id, Kaluura, Rehman, LSL, Melchizedek, Becky, Erinyse, Simon, and Slee.
[11:05]	Arawn Spitteler:	"Liscense Transactions," might be better
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	and I need to get these merges done ASAP, because while I've got the lock no one else can merge to trunk
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	and we're trying to get everything in for server-1.36, which will branch for testing soon... a week or so I think
[11:06]	Xugu Madison:	on the bright side, this time you can blame us for changes being slow :)
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	anyway, what this means is that I'm going to be more of a lurker during this office hour
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	and will be merging stuff on the side
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	maybe I'll contribute, but mostly not
[11:07]	Arawn Spitteler	imagines Babar with a lock on his trunk, but mentions SVC-22, SVC-93 and SVC-2931, for the sake of proper form: Is Morgaine coming? I want to ask her about WEB-1406
[11:07]	Panic Check	- Tier Drops need warnings, and invitations to clarify.
[11:07]	llSetLinkPrimitiveParams content	breakage, only moves agents 54 meters now
[11:07]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[11:07]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[11:07]	Da5id Kronfeld:	Cool, a Linden blaming us -- refreshing reversal
[11:07]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Egad...
[11:07]	Rex Cronon:	blaming us? fpr what?
[11:07]	Rex Cronon:	for*
[11:08]	Da5id Kronfeld:	[11:06] Xugu Madison: on the bright side, this time you can blame us for changes being slow :)
[11:08]	Xugu Madison:	That's going to haunt me....
[11:09]	Simon Linden:	I pinged the business guy who's responsible for premium accounts about WEB-1406. He said he'd look into it ... so it's on the radar, but I'm not sure about if/when any changes might happen
[11:09]	Rex Cronon:	now. what did i do to be blamed for? btw. i didn't do it. u did it:)
[11:09]	Simon Linden:	I think Andrews trying to do it :)
[11:10]	Peggy Paperdoll:	If we have a question do we just blurt it out?
[11:10]	Simon Linden:	Sure, go ahead Peggy
[11:10]	Rex Cronon:	yes peggy. and u hope it is answered:)
[11:10]	Simon Linden:	Things are pretty quiet today
[11:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Simon, We heard you'd be a late tiny, for attending a small meeting
[11:10]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	You had to take my words so badly, didn't you? :p
[11:11]	Simon Linden:	late tiny, tiny late ...
[11:11]	Peggy Paperdoll:	I want to know if LL has a firm cap on the available bandwidth for any single viewer.
[11:11]	SL Status:	Logins, In World Services and Support Down for Maintenance Wednesday a.m
[11:12]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Speaking of that - does that mean the grid is going completely off on Wednesday?
[11:12]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Or will people who are logged in stay logged in?
[11:12]	Arawn Spitteler:	Sounds like just Support
[11:12]	Rex Cronon:	it is going to be at 5am slt
[11:12]	Arawn Spitteler:	No ARs
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	btw, I'm now merging these fixes into the main codebase: SVC-571, SVC-1174, SVC-1638, SVC-1669
[11:12]	Communication functions	other than llSay output to main chat when using DEBUG_CHANNEL
[11:12]	returns nonsensical	values for attachments on avatars sitting on objects
[11:12]	time is	added to seat
[11:12]	New flag	PARCEL_DETAILS_UUID
[11:12]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Yeah but 5AM PST is 8 hours behind my time.
[11:13]	Xugu Madison	cheers for 1638
[11:13]	Simon Linden:	I'm pretty sure there is some bandwidth throttling code on the simulator. The viewer typically it talking to more than one simulator (for neighbors) and possibly other systems via caps, so it's not really a very hard limit
[11:13]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I never get over 1Mbit from the sim due to distance. :(
[11:13]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I get a max of 800K
[11:14]	Xugu Madison:	Andrew, do you know if SVC-224 will make it in for 1.36, or still scheduled for 1.38?
[11:14]	Need a	llGetLinkPrimitiveParams function
[11:14]	Peggy Paperdoll:	Okay......the reason I asked is that viewers like Emerald allow up to 8000 kbps......and I say it's useless to set it above 1500
[11:14]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	8000 will be for the map.
[11:14]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	They use the HTTP Snowglobe map, which uses the Amazon S3 servers.
[11:15]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Snowglobe it's self allows 5000
[11:15]	Simon Linden:	For position updates and such, yeah, that won't make a difference
[11:15]	Peggy Paperdoll:	:)
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	Xugu, I don't think SVC-224 it will make it for server-1.36. Babbage is working on it and I haven't heard any news about it.
[11:15]	Xugu Madison:	Thanks
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	If it isn't done AND tested by end of week it probably isn't getting into server-1.36.
[11:16]	Erinyse Planer:	any further word on the script limiting plans?
[11:16]	Simon Linden:	No changes there, Erinyse
[11:16]	Xugu Madison:	Ideally, any word on when we'll see memory usage analysis tools?
[11:17]	Lazrith Fardel:	no change being?
[11:17]	Simon Linden:	From what I know, 1.34 has code to start measuring script usage on a per-avatar and per-parcel basis. It's just gathering numbers, with no limits enforced
[11:17]	Andrew Linden	is now merging into main codebase: SVC-1945 and SVC-2471
[11:17]	Parcel description	gets erased after crash or restart
[11:17]	t change	position for small vectors when called in attachments on Havok4 unless interacted with
[11:18]	Simon Linden:	Next step is to look at the data and try to figure out how to have sane limits that will only affect the worst resource hogs
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	er no... I take that back. SVC-1945 is not completely fixed. Better but still some problems somewhere.
[11:19]	Simon Linden:	I don't know if the 1.36 server has any more code there ... I think Kelly Linden put in a few tweaks to the measurement code, but that's as much as I know
[11:19]	Arawn Spitteler:	That's the one with the "Pencil Erasers?"
[11:19]	Erinyse Planer:	um not trying to be a smartass, but can you clarify or predict what "sane" might do to places that use and require lots of scripts? like your average rp sim?
[11:20]	Xugu Madison:	I believe intention is that 95% of all residents shouldn't see a change...
[11:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	Sane should be defined by Parcel or Estate Management
[11:20]	Xugu Madison:	and for cases where it might be an issue, we're gnawing on Babbage until more optimal functions fall out
[11:20]	Simon Linden:	I'm not sure I can clairfy or predict, but Xugu is right - we don't want to break stuff
[11:21]	Simon Linden:	The goal is to find the AV or items that are really bogging down a region
[11:21]	Xugu Madison:	Arawn, the problem is that the servers are shared, so letting one region run with lots of memory reduces performance for regions on the same physical machine.
[11:21]	Rex Cronon:	it would be interesting to know how that applies to a sim filled with bullets flying and interceptors going nuts:)
[11:21]	Arawn Spitteler:	How soon are we likely to be able to discern our attachments' script time?
[11:22]	Erinyse Planer:	what like any rps, warps, or ccs sim rex?
[11:22]	LSL Scientist:	i would like to hear what is the status of changing the system so that LL can start doing some asset server cleanup? stuff like " Remove all assets created by copybotter masterpopet Harvy" when will LL get these magic buttons?
[11:23]	Simon Linden:	Sorry LSL, I don't know the status of any of that work
[11:23]	Lazrith Fardel:	( or other copybot " normal" users that " just " didn't know )
[11:23]	Rex Cronon:	i was thinking of rausch, erinyse. btw i am not sure i know what rps, warps, and ccs stand for
[11:23]	Xugu Madison:	RP systems (as in, that avatars wear) should be able to benefit from bytecode sharing in Mono to make them essentially inconsequential...
[11:23]	Erinyse Planer:	those are combat meters and continents based on those meters rex
[11:24]	Xugu Madison:	Talking of reducing script memory usage, not having to resort to paged dialogs would really help ( SVC-4839 ) - not your area I know, just doing a general raising of awareness
[11:24]	more than	12 buttons
[11:24]	LSL Scientist:	since copybotting is getting more and more popular, and no wonder, copying stuff is more easy thatn actually buying it
[11:24]	Simon Linden:	At least Babbage has been digging deep into Mono recently, so I'm hopefull some improvements will come out of it. I think he's realized we need to tackle those problems to really get the benefits of mono
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	Also, Babbage has built up his developer team. I think he's got two or three people working with him.
[11:25]	Simon Linden:	One of the blockers on a lot of these issues is UI work in the viewer ... that's been stalled for a long time, but hopefully it will be possible to start making some changes and add features there soon
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	He should be getting lots of work done soon.
[11:26]	Erinyse Planer	wishes there was a way for LL to script in soemthing that would kill copybots. Kinda tired of seeing her friends close shop or driven out of business becuase of copybots
[11:26]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is there documentation, on how to do the UI work?
[11:26]	Rex Cronon:	so, i guess v2.0 is not too far:)
[11:26]	Johan Laurasia:	if conserving resources is an issue, why doesnt LL enforce the ban on traffic bots?
[11:26]	Xugu Madison	prays for viewer 2.0 to get released so we can stop having massively different internal and external versions
[11:27]	Simon Linden:	I think my official party line is to not confirm or deny the existance of 2.0, if there were such a thing :)
[11:27]	Johan Laurasia:	lol
[11:27]	Erinyse Planer:	uh its already been confirmed it exists simon :P
[11:27]	Arawn Spitteler:	As long as the viewers are open source, I don't think there's much we can do about Copy Bots
[11:27]	Da5id Kronfeld:	Yeah, isn't it called Emerald or something? :P
[11:27]	Simon Linden:	Ah, you're right. I can't comment on it's progress then
[11:27]	Rex Cronon:	simon. existance of v2.0 is already known. the only question is what it is the ATA:)
[11:28]	Xugu Madison:	Erninyse; as much as I hate to say it, it isn't ever going to work. You only need to look at the movie industry's failure to stop DVDs and even Blu-Rays from being copied, and LL's total budget is practically in their error margin...
[11:28]	Johan Laurasia:	right everyone knows copying is difficult to stop
[11:28]	Simon Linden	hopes we don't dive off into an IP discussion
[11:28]	LSL Scientist:	we can never stop copybotting(exept maybe if servers start to send only video to clients) but if LL dont start removing the found copybotted stuff from asset servers, it will soon just make creators to stop, and we start ot see the desert sand creeping in
[11:28]	Johan Laurasia:	what about traffic bots?
[11:29]	Xugu Madison:	LSL; Cambridge (university) have a working tool to convert video of an object into a 3D model...
[11:29]	Simon Linden:	Johan - what about them?
[11:29]	Johan Laurasia:	well, they're everywhere, LL says don't AR them, that they'll take care of it, yet they're everywhere, even XStreet bot sellers list 'traffic bot' as one of the usages for their bots.
[11:29]	Slee Mayo:	i saw that vid, xugu, looked pretty cool
[11:30]	Johan Laurasia:	and they're everywhere
[11:30]	office hours	is half over
[11:30]	Erinyse Planer	shrugs. "I still ar them anyways... especially if their cauing issues on a sim"
[11:30]	Lazrith Fardel:	,.... no,... most traffic bots show of new eyes,... and 80 bots or more are needed to show those of , 3000 meters above anyone els
[11:30]	LSL Scientist:	yea, i had the word "maybe" there, but the fact that we cant stop copybotting dont mean we cant do anything to make it more difficult, starting to remove the content would be one step toward better SL
[11:31]	Peggy Paperdoll:	speaking of traffic bots and the gaming of traffic.....how difficult is it to set yourself to a scripted agent so you an get a modeling job?
[11:31]	Simon Linden:	The one thing I know about bots is that we added the ability for someone to flag their account (via the web site) as a bot, and that would be OK under the TOS. That was to make it easier to distinguish between valid usage and traffic bots
[11:32]	Arawn Spitteler:	Removing indicated content could be a legal obligation
[11:32]	Simon Linden:	I don't know about enforcement efforts, unfortunately
[11:32]	LSL Scientist:	i have spent 3 years in sandbox, every day i see about 20 lamborghini's, and only in 3years 2 times i have seen a lamborghini that is NOT copybotted
[11:32]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, I figured that, as it's not your area, but who to contact about it then?
[11:32]	Simon Linden:	Jack Linden would be interested
[11:32]	Johan Laurasia:	thanks
[11:33]	Lazrith Fardel:	I remember reading a idear some time agow where ppl / av's would count only one time as traffic,.. no matter how long they stay in a sim,...
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, I think I'm done merging. Now just building the windows version to see if I broke anything.
[11:33]	Erinyse Planer:	or how many instances of the account was logged in
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	We'll see what that does to my viewer frame rate.
[11:33]	Johan Laurasia:	that's only partially true, the longer they stay the more their traffic counts
[11:33]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	lol Andrew.
[11:33]	Slee Mayo:	offtopic question: is the zyngo game/sim not considered gambling?
[11:34]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Right now I even lack the RAM to run the Chromium web browser as Open Metaverse Viewer is eating 1.1GiB.
[11:34]	Johan Laurasia:	you have a set 'traffic value' per day, and it's split between the parcels your visit (at least 5 minutes)
[11:34]	Arawn Spitteler:	Games of Skill are often permissible
[11:34]	Lazrith Fardel:	and as for copy bots,..... you don't have to stay in a sand box
[11:34]	Lazrith Fardel:	I see them even in my shop and wear my avies
[11:34]	Xugu Madison:	Lazrith, I've always felt we should be able to set how traffic is measured on a site. For a shop, for example, number of purchases is much more interesting than how long people were there. In fact, an ideal should should have almost no traffic, because people can find wahat they wanted quickly
[11:34]	Questar Utu:	What if you and your friends just happen to hang out there a lot, and don't have anywhere else they prefer to go?
[11:35]	Johan Laurasia:	then that's no problem
[11:35]	Questar Utu:	In relation to not having to stay in a sandbox I mean. xP
[11:35]	Lazrith Fardel:	true,.. a good shop where you have the item found easely ,.. you should see a low traffic
[11:35]	Slee Mayo:	i don't sell in SL, what gets me about copybots is, byt midday, the sandboxes have been turned into carlots full of botted cars
[11:35]	Vallay Vavoom:	: ) displaying a stolen designer avatar.. created by lazrith fardel and copy botted by the ..... see for yourself.. the new creator..
[11:35]	Lazrith Fardel:	only problem,.... ppl wont find that shop in the curent system
[11:36]	Vallay Vavoom:	btw hello everyone.. : )
[11:36]	Erinyse Planer:	hey vallay :)
[11:36]	Lazrith Fardel:	and,.. best of all,.... some copy bot users go to the shop of the creator and give / share there new finds with everyone
[11:36]	Peggy Paperdoll:	Hi Vallay
[11:36]	Johan Laurasia:	copying is just a very difficult thing to deal with
[11:37]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[11:37]	Lazrith Fardel:	I love how genorouse they can be
[11:37]	Sacha Swindlehurst:	i have to go
[11:37]	Vallay Vavoom:	: )
[11:37]	Xugu Madison	's personal opinion on copying (and nearly everything he sells is full perms or modify-enabled scripts), is that some people will do everything they can to avoid paying. You don't want them as customers anyway, they're likely to be a support nightmare.
[11:37]	Sacha Swindlehurst:	take care!
[11:37]	Vallay Vavoom:	agrees
[11:37]	Rex Cronon:	tc
[11:37]	Xugu Madison:	seeya Sacha!
[11:37]	Lazrith Fardel:	bye Sacha
[11:37]	Simon Linden:	bye
[11:38]	Erinyse Planer:	thats not the point xugu. I left for 5 months. came back and 31 of my favorite stores went out of business cuase of copybots...
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	regarding copybotting... I mentioned this before but I'll reiterate:
[11:39]	Xugu Madison:	Erinyse, do they go out of business because of copybots, or because people expect unreasonably low in-world prices?
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	copybotting is an arms race which cannot be won by technical solutions alone, however...
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	there is a stretch of that race that I think LL should run
[11:39]	Slee Mayo:	LL should change the TOS to allow users to stone copybotters out of SL
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	in particular, I think it will be possible to make copybotting actually cost something (for uploads at least).
[11:40]	Arawn Spitteler:	What if the textures had the original creator's key coded in, some how? It would at least require the added expense of stripping the few bits.
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	At the moment it is possible to copy for free.
[11:40]	Lazrith Fardel:	wont d much good,.. they tend to create 50 new alts and then find them again
[11:40]	Da5id Kronfeld:	@Slee -- The ToS doesn't apply to out of world stonings ;)
[11:40]	Rex Cronon:	quite a few people would be happier if it was at least slown down:)
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	I had a meeting yesterday with some of my colleague developers talking about this issue.
[11:40]	Lazrith Fardel:	that would be fun,... 10 L per prim ppl upload from a copybot
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	I think work is going to be done this year.
[11:41]	Rex Cronon:	arawn u can already watermark your textures
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	The watermark topic came up yesterday.
[11:41]	LSL Scientist:	watermark dont help much if LL dont remove the stolen content when found
[11:41]	Erinyse Planer:	the sooner the better. even though i have no income right now, I would happily donate to the developement costs of anything that makes copybotting less profitable
[11:41]	Lazrith Fardel:	watermarking and naming prims is creat,... now the problem, HOW do you find Avi X that copyboted it and gives it away?
[11:41]	Lazrith Fardel:	most dont walk in to yor store and give it out
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	You can watermark your own textures, and many content creators already put in little signatures (not proper watermarks) which can help.
[11:42]	Slee Mayo:	a year ago i made a 'no selling gun' that covers items for sell with a transparent cover with text over that reads, 'click me 100 time to get this item free'...each time someone clicks the transparent box(car) it IM the owner not to sell in sandboxes
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	However it would be nice if there were an automatic watermark option that LL would provide.
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	No promises on that, but it was something we talked about.
[11:42]	Vallay Vavoom:	agrees
[11:42]	Arawn Spitteler:	Would t be possible to compare uploaded textures to previously protected designs?
[11:42]	LSL Scientist:	i made a jira about that, let me find it
[11:43]	Simon Linden:	Arawn - that would be a really big search, I think
[11:43]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Heh, that was shown yesterday at Bug Triage.
[11:43]	LSL Scientist:	SVC-5206
[11:43]	New flag	to texture properties: "This texture/sculpt can only exist on prims created by me
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, that would be hard to compate new textures with all old ones.
[11:43]	Lazrith Fardel:	like a id print of a avatar that makes / rezzes the prim the first time? for the watermark
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	Technically possible, but somewhat expensive -- I'm not even sure how expensive it would be, but it looks formidable
[11:43]	LSL Scientist:	prims/skins/clothes
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	from my back-of-the-brain calculations.
[11:44]	LSL Scientist	sends 20L to governor linden
[11:44]	Da5id Kronfeld	thinks that texture comparisons would be very, very expensive, or trivial to defeat
[11:44]	Simon Linden:	Hmm, that's an interesting idea ... burn a UUID into the watermark, and that might be forced to match the creator
[11:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	How does the Library of Congress do its protective work? Does IP wait on complaints?
[11:44]	Xugu Madison:	SVC-422 looks useful, BTW
[11:44]	A solution	to scams, money theft - etc. New parcels Flag "Block Transactions
[11:44]	Simon Linden:	I like that one, Xugu
[11:44]	Slee Mayo:	if price > 0 lldie
[11:45]	Xugu Madison:	Especially, if it's "Block transactions not by own/land group"
[11:45]	Vallay Vavoom:	we did the investigative work and even retained a copy of the stolen good and turned it this in. However, they do not explain to us what happend. Was anything done? IS the copy bot item still in that guys name or inventory? Why do we not hear back.. there also is no ticket on this when I log in to check for it's statis.
[11:46]	Rex Cronon:	.
[11:47]	Slee Mayo:	yay, i'm being attacked by the sound exploit yet again
[11:47]	Simon Linden:	Vallay -- it's pretty hard for Andrew or myself to answer that. We work on the code side, so are mostly fixing bugs or working on features, and not close to how support or other interactions between residents and LL go
[11:47]	Vallay Vavoom:	ok ty
[11:47]	Erinyse Planer:	does teagan still have office hours simon? shes not listed in the calandar but then again half the lindens that hold them arent
[11:47]	Slee Mayo:	2010-01-05T19:46:45Z INFO: LLAudioEngine::startNextTransfer: Getting asset data for: a7d79b9e-9d83-178f-0098-ef8579ebcd31 2010-01-05T19:46:45Z INFO: LLAssetStorage::_queueDataRequest: Starting transfer for a7d79b9e-9d83-178f-0098-ef8579ebcd31
[11:48]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I'll be glad when that sound exploit is fixed...
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	what sound exploit?
[11:48]	Slee Mayo:	i talked with soft yesterday and sent all the data
[11:48]	Rex Cronon:	is that the sound that crashes u:(
[11:48]	Simon Linden:	Erinyse ... I don't know. I end up checking that same list :)
[11:48]	Simon Linden:	What is the sound exploit?
[11:49]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	One example I've seen of it is someone rezzed in my view played a sound at full volume.
[11:49]	Slee Mayo:	somehow, i'm guessing a client tweak allows you to send a sound to an individual....you can't camera away from it or see it with sound beacon....it's almost as if you were playing the sound local
[11:49]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Even though they were 190M or so away.
[11:49]	Slee Mayo:	i just pasted the hit if you want to track it
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... that is the exploit that you were communicating to Soft Linden?
[11:49]	Slee Mayo:	yes
[11:50]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	It was brought up at Bug Triage yesterday if my memory serves me correctly.
[11:50]	Rex Cronon:	there are some sounds that seem to crash the autio engine that the viewer uses:(
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	ok good. If Soft knows about it then the info will get to us.
[11:50]	Simon Linden:	Hmm, interesting. I wonder what kind of update/message is being sent to your viewer
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	I'll look for it today on the triage list.
[11:50]	Slee Mayo:	ko
[11:50]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Rex - the Windows viewer uses an old one if I remember correctly (fmod).
[11:50]	Rex Cronon:	audio*
[11:50]	Slee Mayo:	i have 3 attacks logged from log if it'll help
[11:52]	Simon Linden:	It's best to put that info into the jira ... if you give it to me, there's a good chance it'll get buried somewhere
[11:52]	Peggy Paperdoll:	Well I gotta run......my first Office Hours and I learned something:)
[11:52]	Peggy Paperdoll:	thanks guys
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, when previewing a sound you can "play it in-world".
[11:52]	Rex Cronon:	tc
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	I'm betting that's the trigger. They may be overriding some of the fields to make it loud, or localize it.
[11:52]	Slee Mayo:	i'm positive that's what the attack is using
[11:53]	Slee Mayo:	making it play locally
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not familiar with the code. I'll have to look it over.
[11:53]	Simon Linden:	Andrew - right, so they might tweak it so no one else hears it?
[11:53]	Simon Linden:	'ít'being the message to play the sound
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... could be
[11:53]	Johan Laurasia:	right, get it to play locally on the target only
[11:53]	Erinyse Planer:	the preivew option automatically sets it as only the one previewing it hears it
[11:53]	Johan Laurasia:	sending the target viewer the command to trigger local play of a asound
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, but it may be possible to override the "hearer". Depends on how it was implemented.
[11:54]	Simon Linden:	ah, I wonder if the message can be hacked to change the 'previewer
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	If that is the path of the exploit it should be easy to fix.
[11:54]	Johan Laurasia:	that's probably it
[11:54]	Johan Laurasia:	change the UUID
[11:55]	Andrew Linden	takes notes.
[11:55]	office hours	is almost over
[11:55]	Erinyse Planer:	might wnat to check to see if the coding for gestures is similarly vulnerable too
[11:55]	Simon Linden:	Yep, that's a good one
[11:55]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, next thing you know I'm doing the thriller dance
[11:55]	Arawn Spitteler	wonders if Gestures can be muted, yet
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	I'm going to mention it on Thursday too, but I think I might have to either move the Thursday office hour, or stop attending it soon.
[11:56]	Erinyse Planer:	:(
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	I've got a regularly scheduled meeting coming up that is probably going to conflict.
[11:56]	LSL Scientist:	i feel spammy with this one VWR-6964 cause apart from permission exploits i think it one of the most important things to fix ASAP (Residents have sent the fix to LL, only need to copy paste)
[11:56]	Muting object	(or object owner) does not mute dialogs
[11:56]	Johan Laurasia:	we can move this meeting
[11:56]	Arawn Spitteler:	Bring the meeting hee?
[11:56]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I can't even make that one as it starts at 12AM for me if I got my times correct. :(
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	Either Simon could continue to do Thursdays, or we could move it... maybe Friday evenings.
[11:57]	Erinyse Planer:	if my vote counts for anything can you move it even if its to another day/time?
[11:57]	Vallay Vavoom:	I hope our questions and input was of some value and thank you for the open chat time.. I have to run.. customer.. have fun sl !
[11:57]	Rex Cronon:	tc
[11:57]	Lazrith Fardel:	bye Vallay
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, I think I got plenty of value today.
[11:58]	Slee Mayo:	chow
[11:58]	Johan Laurasia:	lol
[11:58]	Xugu Madison:	and lots of JIRAs, right? :) Thanks for hosting, Lindens
[11:58]	Johan Laurasia:	best OH meeting there is is this one
[11:58]	Erinyse Planer:	thank you andrew and simon....
[11:58]	Lazrith Fardel:	ty for the meeting Andrew & Simon
[11:58]	Simon Linden:	Andrew - that last one looks interesting, we might want to take a look at fixing it server-side
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	Thank you all for coming.
[11:59]	LSL Scientist:	yea, Simon and Andrew are bunnehs <3
[11:59]	Lazrith Fardel:	tc everyone and have fun
[11:59]	Lazrith Fardel:	bye
[11:59]	Da5id Kronfeld:	This was enlightening -- I may have to come to more of these ;)
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	I've got another meeting that starts very soon -- internal bug triage.
[11:59]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone for coming
[11:59]	Rehman Polanski:	Thanks...
[11:59]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew
[11:59]	Da5id Kronfeld:	bye all
[11:59]	Johan Laurasia:	thanks andrew and simon
[11:59]	Rex Cronon:	tc
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, I've got a feeling I'm going to find that sound exploit up near the top of my triage list today.
[12:00]	Slee Mayo:	ty
[12:00]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Thanks for the office meeting Andrew & SImon.
[12:00]	Slee Mayo:	easily muted
[12:00]	Johan Laurasia:	I smell an easy fix
[12:00]	Johan Laurasia:	lol
[12:00]	Slee Mayo:	just can't see whos doing it
[12:00]	Thank you	for coming to Linden office hours
[12:00]	Da5id Kronfeld:	Thanks Lindens :)
[12:00]	Simon Linden:	Bye everyone ... see you next time

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