User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 01 12

Transcript

[11:00]	Welcome to	Linden office hours
[11:00]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Why is it only Simon has something like that?
[11:00]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi	thinks it's neat.
[11:01]	Ardy Lay:	Greetings, Simon.
[11:01]	Thriller Dancer:	Say 'on' or 'off'to turn me on or off, or 'help' for more commands
[11:01]	Slee Mayo:	please don't...
[11:02]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Hey Simon.
[11:02]	Simon Linden:	Hello
[11:02]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	Oh you, you're putting the cat by the milk
[11:02]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	Hi Simon
[11:02]	Rex Cronon:	hello simon
[11:02]	Jagga Meredith:	Hi Simon
[11:02]	Youri Ashton:	hello simon!
[11:02]	Arawn Spitteler	offers ritual mention, of SVC-2931, SVC-22 and SVC-93: I've a question, about WEB-814 and WEB-1406. Are WEB issues really going to look Sexy, in an environment like Linden Labs? Hi, Simon, is Andrew coming?
[11:02]	Panic Check	- Tier Drops need warnings, and invitations to clarify.
[11:02]	cannot post	event where land's landing point's Z is > 768
[11:02]	llSetLinkPrimitiveParams content	breakage, only moves agents 54 meters now
[11:02]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[11:02]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[11:02]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Egad.
[11:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	It's pretty awful, that I can do all those by memory
[11:03]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	LOL
[11:03]	Rex Cronon:	arawn, when 93 is going to be fixed lots of things might break
[11:03]	LSL Scientist:	lol, here is my set: VWR-6964 SVC-422
[11:03]	Muting object	(or object owner) does not mute dialogs
[11:03]	A solution	to scams, money theft - etc. New parcels Flag "Block Transactions
[11:03]	Simon Linden:	I just sent an IM to Andrew, haven't heard back so he might be late in another meeting or away from his desk
[11:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	That's ben worked out. We need new integers for PRIM_ROT_LOCAL and PROM_ROT_GLOBAL
[11:04]	Rex Cronon:	ok
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	I'm not sure how sexy the WEB issues will be :)
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	... Andrew says he'll be here in 10 minutes or so
[11:04]	Fred Rookstown:	sup
[11:05]	Jagga Meredith:	I've got one issue - email between objects - SVC-23/688/4999
[11:05]	Region incoming	email queue for objects becomes permanently suspended
[11:05]	Rex Cronon:	what "WEB issues"?
[11:05]	Arawn Spitteler:	It wasborked, in the first place, because a lot of programmers don't know any sexy algebra
[11:06]	Fred Rookstown:	Any reason why assets have been loading particularly slow since the past rolling restarts?
[11:06]	Fred Rookstown:	-plural
[11:06]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	They've been no slower for me.
[11:06]	Simon Linden:	Looking at SVC-23 ... it looks like theres' an understanding of the odd state the objects get into, but not how they get there
[11:07]	Arawn Spitteler:	web-814 and web-1406. It's hard for Web page devs to look sexy, in an environment like Linden Labs
[11:07]	Simon Linden:	They're trying :) Our web site's a lot sexier than it was a couple of years ago when I started at LL
[11:08]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Hey Andrew.
[11:08]	Arawn Spitteler:	But 814 and 1406 are things that shouldn't be delayed
[11:08]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Andrew.
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	hello
[11:08]	Fred Rookstown:	Be nice if they told everyone how they fixed the stack-heap issues with JIRA on Tomcat...
[11:08]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Andrew
[11:08]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Tomcat?
[11:08]	Rex Cronon:	hi andrew
[11:09]	Fred Rookstown:	Tomcat's a java-based webserver, the only one available via the Debian package manager that works
[11:09]	Rex Cronon:	i totally love the new blog. actually i don't. there is no way to sort the comments in chronological order:(
[11:09]	Simon Linden:	WEB-814 is really a part of a bigger question, which is sorting out our policies on higher altitudes.
[11:09]	Fred Rookstown:	The blog needs pagination.
[11:09]	Fred Rookstown:	Loading 1023409 comments is rather horrid, especially since they're all on one page.
[11:09]	Simon Linden:	That should probably be simplified and then that would have a sane rule
[11:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	Venues are above 768 meters; why not arrivals?
[11:10]	Simon Linden:	or no rule at all
[11:10]	Rex Cronon:	and for blogs that thave over 100 comments is hell trying to find the new comments:(
[11:10]	Simon Linden:	Andrew - do you remember the history of the 768 limits?
[11:11]	Ardy Lay:	I know I need ban-by name to go all the way up the the build limit.
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	My memory is fuzzy around the height limits.
[11:12]	Simon Linden:	I do know that things start getting really ugly as you get very high ... the rounding errors in the floating point numbers used for the altitude start becoming visible, and things don't look as good
[11:12]	Fred Rookstown:	Yes, estate manager tools are funky; Sometimes they'll return objects, sometimes they won't.
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	We tried to move all of the build limits to one height in the Havok4 transition. I think it was 4096 m or something.
[11:12]	Fred Rookstown:	Hi Robin
[11:12]	Robin Cornelius:	Hi
[11:12]	Arawn Spitteler:	Fuzzy Memories call for Fuzzy Logic. Ban lines shuld prohibit building, all the way up
[11:13]	Ardy Lay:	Here here!
[11:13]	Fred Rookstown:	Yeah
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	however there are other limits besides how high you can build: parcel access limits and fly height limits ... they are distinct settings atm
[11:13]	Simon Linden:	FWIW I don't have any annoucements this week ... not sure there's much going on with server releases
[11:13]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	umm someone managed to get a prim to 1 mmillion meters recently, and managed to go as high as one trillion meters
[11:13]	Rex Cronon:	there is at least on moded viewer that allows rezzing objects above 4096m
[11:14]	Arawn Spitteler:	It would be inconvenient, if flying above As-Hole Lines, to run into a capricious Ban Line
[11:14]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I've had to return a prim that was at 8,000 before.
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... I find the "rez > 4096" hard to believe, but maybe there is a hole there somewhere
[11:14]	Arawn Spitteler:	Above 4096, a prim should be off-world
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	such objects will not survive a region stop/start cycle
[11:15]	Ardy Lay:	Arawn, I won't put your name in the ban list if you don't violate TOS on my land. ;-)
[11:15]	Arawn Spitteler:	If a modeed viewer can do it, there's an arror server side
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	don't put anything up there that you don't want to lose.
[11:15]	Fred Rookstown:	Although banlines would be great to set on the estate level, no-build should still work at ALL heights to prevent douchebags from creating gray-goo objects at such heights that drop down on patrons below.
[11:15]	Rex Cronon:	i have sat on objects rezzed above 4096m, even walked on them
[11:15]	Arawn Spitteler:	Not everybody is so tolerant, Ardy
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn is correct -- if it can be done then there is a server bug.
[11:15]	Youri Ashton:	oh, think i may have something interresting for you simon. Nyx sended me to you for this. I been asking around last year for the water being updated, so it doesnt run trough objects (unless wanted by builder) and letting ships really 'float'. Also this same idea can be used for air and space. is there anything you can do in this?
[11:16]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	http://sorornishi.blogspot.com/ for their exploits Andrew - not sure if they "rezzed" or "took the prim up there"
[11:16]	Rex Cronon:	i think emerald allows rezzing above 4096m
[11:16]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I'd guess 'real floating' would still require physics to do all the calculating as it currently does (I think?)
[11:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	Doesn't matter how the prim got up there, Andrew needs to know how to repro
[11:17]	Simon Linden:	Youri - I'm not sure why Nyx would send you to me for that ... I haven't worked on water before
[11:17]	Youri Ashton:	think its the work behind it
[11:17]	Simon Linden:	I'd love to work on it (and make it behave more like water) but I know I'm not going to get the time
[11:18]	Rex Cronon:	in emerald there is also a "ghost" mode that alows an avatar to be in a damage enabled sime and to getno damage
[11:18]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Or be pushed around.
[11:18]	Youri Ashton:	can you get someone to take a look on that simon?
[11:18]	Fred Rookstown:	Phantom
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	I should mention that our Thursday office hours are moving to Friday (starting this week) and one hour earlier.
[11:18]	Youri Ashton:	think its something good for all of SL and its residents
[11:18]	Youri Ashton:	hello andrew btw :p
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	So Fridays 16:00 - 17:00 SLT.
[11:18]	Rex Cronon:	the avatar doesn't have to sit on anything
[11:18]	Fred Rookstown:	and it's great in sandboxes when people are shooting each other and all you want to do is build
[11:19]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Aw, that's midnight for me. I still won't make that. :(
[11:19]	Simon Linden:	I have to update that sign...
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	As to water... I don't foresee us being able to work on that soon.
[11:20]	Boroondas Gupte:	no water in a ship can be done with invisiprims (with the known side effects), I think.
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	One of our devs is hot to make objects float and move more correctly in water.
[11:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	My Ivory Soap floats, by settihng Buoyancy to One
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	That is a tough feature to deliver just for all the content it would break, or the UI confusion to make it per-object optional.
[11:21]	Youri Ashton:	think ill createa jira for it then
[11:21]	Youri Ashton:	in the hope someone picks it up
[11:21]	Rex Cronon:	u meanabatars will float in water:)
[11:21]	Rex Cronon:	u mean avatars*
[11:21]	Ardy Lay:	Youri, search first. There is probably a request for that already.
[11:21]	Jonathan Yap:	Along the lines of having things float you'd also want to see ripples and proper waves
[11:21]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Avatars can already float in water with the right scripting.
[11:21]	Simon Linden:	AVs would be really tough ... the physics shape doesn't really look much like what's shown in the viewer
[11:22]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Ripples and waves? Hoooboy.
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	Sahkolihaa, that is why we have this office hour -- for those who can't make the one near California's evening hours.
[11:22]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	That's hell on graphics unless it's just sprites.
[11:22]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Heh. :)
[11:22]	Youri Ashton:	adry, i sure will, however i seem to be the first to really ask around about it
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	I don't know how the Emerald collisionless avatar works.
[11:22]	Jonathan Yap:	Hmmm, and if you have waves then you have to worry about beach erosion :)
[11:22]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi	laughs.
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	It might work by providing an animation override offset -- dunno if they use that.
[11:23]	Rex Cronon:	if babbage could have his OHs like u andrew:)
[11:23]	Arawn Spitteler:	Checking for Duplicates is what we have Mentors for; it's an art with a steep learning curve, and a big time requirement
[11:24]	Fred Rookstown:	Andrew/Simon: Is there a list of permitted object NameValuePairs? I'm trying to find a way for extra object properties to be set (viewer-side shaders, for example)
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	I mentioned last week, but I'll repeat today: server-1.36 has branched -- it should be deployed in... several weeks
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	not sure exactly when, but it is going up for testing soon
[11:25]	Kaluura Boa:	Today on beta grid... (Adita)
[11:25]	Kaluura Boa:	Aditi*
[11:25]	Ardy Lay:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-432
[11:25]	Give the	water a chance
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	I didn't get any of the Misc-3077 stuff done in time for server-1.36. I have to shoot for server-1.38.
[11:25]	List of	Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions With Large Returns
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	today I'm programming in perl -- making changes to login.cgi
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	which is why I'm in such a bad mood ;-)
[11:27]	Youri Ashton:	NDA?
[11:27]	Simon Linden:	Having waded into that code before, I send my sympathy
[11:27]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	That bad?
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	nothing interesting, just adding some data that will be returned by the cgi script.
[11:27]	Youri Ashton:	lol
[11:27]	Fred Rookstown:	After seeing pipeline.cpp, I beleive his assessment of how bad the code is...
[11:27]	Ovaltine Constantine:	So wait...the " Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions" were...to hard to get done by February?
[11:28]	Simon Linden:	It's one of those things that has just grown over time as new checks or data is needed when you log in
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah... hard to find time to do them.
[11:28]	Rex Cronon:	i guess perl is a "GOOD" language, for giving headaches:)
[11:28]	Jagga Meredith	likes perl
[11:28]	Simon Linden:	Plus it's Perl, which hurts my C++ brain
[11:28]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Hehe.
[11:29]	Arawn Spitteler:	Can't we all just use Addembler?
[11:29]	Arawn Spitteler:	Assembler?
[11:29]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Assembly?
[11:29]	Simon Linden:	FORTH!
[11:30]	Simon Linden:	ok, sorry, don't mean to go down the geeky-computer-language path
[11:30]	office hours	is half over
[11:30]	Arawn Spitteler	did a class room project in Machine language, ONCE
[11:30]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Ok so then my next question is, when is 1.38 coming out? (Cuz I was kinda countin on some of those "easy" changes)
[11:30]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I don't think perl is as bad as what I'm learning in college (cough - VB.net).
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	I've always wondered what VB.net was used for.
[11:31]	Slee Mayo:	i loved VB, never messed with '.net'
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	Since I've never seen nor heard of it actually applieed anywhere.
[11:31]	Arawn Spitteler:	BASIC, That's used ofr College Courses; I think they use C# In high School
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	mbut maybe I live a sheltered life.
[11:31]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Heh.
[11:31]	Simon Linden:	I think our next update (on Agni) will be next month
[11:31]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	i leanred to program in BASIC many many moons ago
[11:32]	Arawn Spitteler	started with Fortran 4
[11:33]	Drew Dwi	ran alittle late... is there an agenda/topic?
[11:33]	Simon Linden:	No, we're rambling
[11:33]	Arawn Spitteler:	One problem I had with Pascal, is that the instructions don't say which columns anything starts on.
[11:33]	Simon Linden:	Anyone have a question we might be able to actually answer?
[11:33]	Slee Mayo:	i have one..
[11:33]	Jagga Meredith:	errrr...getting back on topic. Things appeared to get really laggy starting about two months ago. Did something bad happen?
[11:33]	Drew Dwi:	yesss, andrew you commented on this issue before http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4143/DEV-31380
[11:33]	When an	estate manager disables a script there is no way to re enable it (No Mod Objects Permanently Broke)
[11:33]	Arawn Spitteler:	How can WEB Issues be made to look sexy?
[11:34]	Slee Mayo:	has anyone been able to figure ut the current sound exploit/
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	oof, that one
[11:34]	Drew Dwi:	has there been any movement on it? as I believe the bug to disable scripts was fixed
[11:34]	Jonathan Yap:	I have a question about collisions -- why is there no collision event for a non-moving object/vehicle? (Let's say I am trying to find out if a wheel is touching a prim of interest)
[11:34]	Drew Dwi:	andddd this morning I disabled someones script in midian and they bit my head off since it was no mod D:
[11:35]	Simon Linden:	Jagga - I don't know of a specific event that would have made lag worse. Was there a new simulator version or restart about that time?
[11:35]	Youri Ashton:	lol, just got great news by email, FINALLY. lol. its not part of SL tho, so ill shsuh bout that :p
[11:35]	Drew Dwi:	Jon - believe it has to be phsyical to generate the colision movement not really required?
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	I thought the changes I made for SVC-4143 never actually were deployed.
[11:35]	Arawn Spitteler:	Tell them to bite Andrew's head off
[11:35]	Drew Dwi:	so as far as you know, disable in the estate script tools is still non-functioning?
[11:35]	Jagga Meredith:	Simon - I think it was two rollouts ago
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	Er... my initial solution just didn't work and was removed or disabled, I think.
[11:36]	Drew Dwi:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3148
[11:36]	Disable scripts	from region/estate tab does not work
[11:36]	Arawn Spitteler:	Collisions should work in non-moving objects
[11:36]	Drew Dwi:	is set pending... but its old
[11:36]	Jonathan Yap:	Arawn, I didn't search the jira on that, perhaps it is already in there.
[11:37]	Arawn Spitteler:	Maybe the date set pending, should be displayed? Also, the who set might not be displayed
[11:37]	Drew Dwi:	I also have another question but need to ask in IM, if don't mind :X
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	I think the region-wide disable scripts feature is just broken.
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	I'm taking notes, and will try to figure out how broken it is later this week.
[11:38]	Drew Dwi:	ok, I suppose thats better than being able to break content
[11:38]	Drew Dwi	notes he is going to quote you to angry head biter :P
[11:39]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think I taught a class on followers, where the object could follow Dynamically or statically, and either could use collision, but that was some time ago
[11:39]	Drew Dwi:	I think simon owns the one which covers it not working
[11:39]	Drew Dwi:	jira wise
[11:39]	Arawn Spitteler:	What an estate owner says about an object, should only apply on that estate
[11:40]	Drew Dwi:	right, but I don't think there is any code to re-enable it when the prim rezzes into another sim
[11:40]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	well, yesterday, we had an issue on the weapons testing sandbox, scrips were deactivated at the estate manager level
[11:40]	SL Status:	[RESOLVED] Stipends
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, that is how it should work ideally, Arawn
[11:40]	Drew Dwi:	na, this is something different Adam, this is an estate manager disabling a single object/script - not all
[11:41]	Arawn Spitteler:	How does the manager disable someone elses script?
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, that estate manager feature actually changes the object, sometimes irreparably
[11:41]	Arawn Spitteler:	Set Scripts in Selection to Running, doesn't work?
[11:41]	Drew Dwi:	no, because its no mod
[11:42]	Drew Dwi:	arawn - in the display top scripts under debug
[11:42]	Arawn Spitteler:	Estate Managers are changing no mod objects, that owners can't change?
[11:42]	Drew Dwi:	in theory, they are able to by disabling a script in the no-mod object
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, that's the bug (when that "feature" is working)
[11:42]	Ardy Lay:	"We need a roll back over here please!!!"
[11:43]	Ardy Lay:	Uhm, will a roll-back fix that?
[11:43]	Simon Linden:	That 'feature' probably got added as an anti-griefing measure, but left things in a bad state
[11:43]	Drew Dwi:	right
[11:43]	Simon Linden:	Ardy - yes, if the roll-back is to a point where it's enabled, it should fix it
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	A rollback might fix it. It depends on when the object was rezzed.
[11:44]	Drew Dwi:	right
[11:44]	Drew Dwi:	but a rollback over 1 object...
[11:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	No Mod Objets, unable to have their scripts set running?
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	If it was rezzed very recently then the likelihood of it being fixed by a rollback diminishes.
[11:44]	Ardy Lay:	Yeah, depends on a lot of conditions to be favorable for the roll-back.
[11:44]	Drew Dwi:	they are unable to change the state of the script
[11:45]	Drew Dwi:	if the object/script is no mod
[11:45]	Ardy Lay:	Can support reenable the script?
[11:45]	Drew Dwi:	support can do lots of things :P
[11:45]	Ardy Lay:	That's who I would have contacted first.
[11:46]	Ardy Lay:	Then I would be searching JIRA. :-)
[11:46]	Drew Dwi:	i'm not sure if they would be willing to come out and manually force a script back to run
[11:46]	Simon Linden:	It would be better if we could put those scripts into a suspended state ... essentially the same as not running the scripts, but not actually changing the no-mod object. Would require more data to store and more UI, which is why it's sitting around for so long
[11:46]	Drew Dwi:	right
[11:46]	Drew Dwi:	but figured would shake the tree and see if anything came from it :P
[11:46]	Simon Linden:	:)
[11:47]	Ardy Lay:	Hmm.... I guess returning the object is much more content-friendly then.
[11:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	Might be better to set down scripts by users by estate
[11:48]	Jagga Meredith:	Solona Beach sim has crashed and hasn't come back after 20 minutes. Did something bad happen?
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	yes, ideally estate managers could disable by owner, or per-script for that region/estate and...
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	the owners should be able to see some sort of notification as to why their script is not working
[11:49]	Arawn Spitteler:	Shut down by script could be throwing off a vital function, of an object. I've suffered grief from an estate owner
[11:50]	Drew Dwi:	well, you did choose to put that object out on their estate
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	well, the idea being that if you took the object to another estate/region it would naturaly start working again if able
[11:50]	Drew Dwi:	right, thats the if everything was peachy
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	however, some scripts are complicated, and rely on other scripts properly working
[11:50]	Arawn Spitteler:	So, can the owner turn scripts on and off, in no mod objects? Just one way, would be unballanced?
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	I suppose there would be ways for script collections to become "corrupted" in their correlated states.
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	but hopefully no LSL scriptors make such complicated stuff.
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	;-)
[11:51]	Jagga Meredith	looks innocent
[11:51]	Arawn Spitteler:	I've used a couple interrelated scriptings
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, they should be able to enable and disable (for their estate/region). So both ways.
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	That isn't how it works right now.
[11:52]	Arawn Spitteler:	One for my Narrowboat, and another for my polymorphic TP
[11:52]	Jagga Meredith	notes Solona is back
[11:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	Object OPwners shoould be able to set scripts to not running, in no mod objects, same as they can carry such into no-script areas
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	hrm...
[11:55]	office hours	is almost over
[11:55]	Drew Dwi:	no, if that was allowed
[11:55]	Drew Dwi:	then they would loose variables set in run time
[11:55]	Drew Dwi:	and many things would break
[11:55]	Arawn Spitteler:	If an object is offensive to an estate owner, only the object owner should have th right to edit
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	That sounds like the right design.... but it kinda conflicts with our current permissions system. To change it would be to enable broken content, and maybe exploits of poorly written LSL code.
[11:56]	Linnrenate Crosby	waves fa friendly hello to everyone
[11:56]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	the estate owner should have the right to protect their estate -- hence a "disable script" override.
[11:56]	LSL Scientist:	could remove the ability for estate owner to fiddle with other ppls stuff, and let them do the old "remove your laggy object or i remove you"
[11:57]	Boroondas Gupte:	well, it just has to be (at least) two different, orthogonal settings.
[11:57]	Arawn Spitteler	notes the arrival of Linnrenate: Does the Estate have the right to alter a no mod object, simply because it's offensive?
[11:57]	Drew Dwi:	the idea is not to send something back which is important, but prevent a script from causing issues
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	at the moment yes, which is the bug
[11:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	Power to Return would seem the limit
[11:57]	Drew Dwi:	oh, so the disable button does work atm?
[11:57]	Rex Cronon:	if the maker set something as no mod, nobodyshould be able to edit it
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	er... when it is working the bug is present.
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	I don't know the current state of those bugs.
[11:58]	Drew Dwi:	can put a prim out and test :P here...
[11:58]
[11:58]	Original Prim:	Could the estate have a 'script mute' list of avatars instead? Those avatars would see themselves in a no-script region.
[11:58]	Rex Cronon:	what is next? will the property owner be able to see the code too? really?
[11:59]	Jonathan Yap:	In the distant future how about having a priority system; an offending script could have its priority lowererd so as to not interfere with other scripts?
[11:59]	Drew Dwi:	its named disable me, if don't mind disabling it real quick
[11:59]	Drew Dwi:	Orignal - thats a good idea, fake out the prim with land status?
[12:00]	Thank you	for coming to Linden office hours
[12:00]	Jonathan Yap:	and to keep things coordinated I think you'd want to adjust all scripts in a link set to the same level
[12:00]	Youri Ashton:	im off again, Simon, Andrew, thanks for this meeting!
[12:00]	Youri Ashton:	bye bye all!
[12:00]	Drew Dwi:	cya
[12:00]	Rex Cronon:	tc
[12:00]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone for comnig ... see you next time
[12:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	I'd lie Access and Ban lists extended to Group and country powers. Some countries shouldn't be allowed to see, what several groups should have he power to rez
[12:01]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	See you Simon.
[12:01]	Simon Linden:	Reminder : office hours is switching to Fridays at 4:00 SL / Pacific time
[12:01]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	I think the script has to show up in the "get top scripts" list for the estate owner to be able to find it for disabling.
[12:01]	Drew Dwi:	right, only an estate manager/owner can do it
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	Not sure, it's been a while since I played with that.
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	I'll try to look into it.
[12:02]	Drew Dwi:	i'll try it on a prim and see if it takes or not if can't disable one here
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	Meanwhile, I've got another meeting to attend -- to sort through bugs.
[12:02]	Adamburp Adamczyk	whispers: onigokko
[12:02]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	See you too, Andrew.
[12:02]	Simon Linden:	Bye
[12:02]	Drew Dwi:	thanks, bye!
[12:02]	Jonathan Yap:	Thanks Simin & Andrew
[12:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	Estate, Parcel ad Objet Managers should be able to view top scripts
[12:02]	Linnrenate Crosby:	/that do mean a owner/estate owner might have a laggy sim when coming online... perhaps extend to group officers too?
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks for coming
[12:03]	Drew Dwi:	no, estate level stuff does not extend to groups
[12:03]	Drew Dwi:	its a list of individual people
[12:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	Oh, yeah, Group Managers
[12:03]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew
[12:03]	Drew Dwi:	its not like normal land where you can hand out permissions based onrole
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	Oh yeah, I should repeat: otr Thursday office hours is moving to Fridays 16:00 - 17:00.

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