User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 01 29

Transcript

[16:00]	Ludo Merit:	Simon poofed
[16:05]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Teehee
[16:05]	Ludo Merit:	Can I drop something here? I tried to rez here and could not.
[16:06]	Andrew Linden:	the parcel permissions here allow anyone to rez
[16:06]	Ludo Merit:	I'll try again.
[16:06]	Andrew Linden:	so if your rez failed then perhaps something is wrong...
[16:06]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Andrew, Simon
[16:06]	Andrew Linden:	hello Ardy
[16:07]	Simon Linden:	Hello ... had a weird jump when I sat in the chair
[16:07]
[16:07]	Simon Linden:	I'm on a slow connection now
[16:07]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, are you still in SF? or did you drive our already?
[16:07]	Psi Merlin:	Hi everyone
[16:08]	Sniper Siemens:	hi..:-)
[16:08]	s translator:	hi ..:-)
[16:08]	Simon Linden:	No, I drove home
[16:08]	Andrew Linden:	Alright... announcements.
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	I think I mentioned earlier this week (Tuesday) that I would be having some organizational talks with the other LL devs this week.
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	At the time I wasn't sure what all we would be talking about.
[16:10]	Andrew Linden:	In the end we didn't talk much about the specific features and projects that I've been talking about here.
[16:10]	Andrew Linden:	Er... no that isn't true. Some of them we talked about specifically
[16:12]	Andrew Linden:	but it wasn't really a brainstorming session. The projects that did come up were in context with other topics
[16:12]	Andrew Linden:	such as how to get the work done that we want to get done, and how to improve dev efforts inside LL
[16:12]	Andrew Linden:	anyway, there aren't a whole lot of details to provide, but here are some:
[16:13]	Andrew Linden:	I discovered an unexpected ally for the "megaprim liberation" project.
[16:13]	Ludo Merit	listens eagerly.
[16:13]	Andrew Linden:	I'm guessing there is renewed commitment to that project this year.
[16:14]	Psi Merlin:	drat
[16:14]	Andrew Linden:	The "efficient scripts" project that Babbage is working on (which includes some items from MISC-3077) is going into QA -- it might even get into server-1.38.
[16:14]	List of	Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions With Large Returns
[16:16]	Andrew Linden:	Also, in general one of the themes of what we're trying to get everyone at LL to focus on are: improving the user experience and enhancing the feature set.
[16:16]	s greeter	says: Hello Simon, Liisa, Andrew, Sniper, Psi, Ovaltine, Ardy, and Ludo.
[16:16]	Rex Cronon:	greetings:)
[16:16]	Psi Merlin:	Hi Rex
[16:16]	Simon Linden:	Hi Rex
[16:16]	Rex Cronon:	hiii:)
[16:17]	Andrew Linden:	Not that these focuses have changed really from before, but there is a slight change in how we'll be doing things...
[16:18]	Andrew Linden:	In short, the LL devs were given the message that we might be able to get some of our own ideas/projects done -- we just need to sell them under the categories of those two endeavors.
[16:18]	Ardy Lay:	Heaven forbid an enhanced feature require the addition of a button or menu iten in the user interface.
[16:19]	Ardy Lay:	I have seen lots of stuff shot down lately because of that.
[16:19]	Rex Cronon:	sorry. i wasn't here from the begining. what endevors r u talking about?
[16:19]	Andrew Linden:	In other words... I _think_ the people trying to balance all the developer resources here in LL would be willing to give some time for LL-dev pet projects as long as they agree with those themes.
[16:20]	Andrew Linden:	While this is good news, it remains to be seen if we really can find the time to get some of our pet projects done.
[16:20]	Andrew Linden:	I've got some new hope... but I worry that the workload won't lighten up. We'll just have to see.
[16:21]	Psi Merlin:	You need some google style 20% time for those projects.
[16:21]	Andrew Linden:	Psi, some 20% time was mentioned specifically, however they didn't talk too much about it so I wonder how the commitment will turn out to be.
[16:22]	Simon Linden:	Yeah, the trouble is actually getting the 20% of that time when there are pressures from the other 80% :)
[16:22]	Psi Merlin:	Probably 2% if your lucky :(
[16:22]	Andrew Linden:	Some projects I'm planning on doing this quarter are:
[16:23]	Andrew Linden:	prim-encroachment (being able to return itmes that overlap your land)
[16:23]	Andrew Linden:	and MISC-3077
[16:23]	Ludo Merit	claps
[16:23]	Ardy Lay:	Does that include at region boundaries?
[16:23]	Andrew Linden:	I'll stop there. Those are my pet projects that I would hope to get done in 20%.
[16:24]	Ludo Merit:	What
[16:24]	Ludo Merit:	s MISC-3077
[16:24]	Andrew Linden:	There are more projects that I know are happening, but those are what I would hope to be done in my copious spare time.
[16:24]	Ardy Lay:	I would think the encroachment at a region boundary would be difficult to deal with.
[16:24]	Rex Cronon:	IMHO the first oneis quite easy. u should be able to do it in about one week:)
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... yeah Ardy add region boundaries onto that prim-encroachment project.
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	Region boundaries need work.
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	Rex, fortunately the prim-encroachment code is mostly done, yet.
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	er... yes.
[16:26]	Rex Cronon:	even better:)
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	However, it does not currently support returning across region boundaries.
[16:27]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, do you have any thoughts you want to share about our talks this week?
[16:27]	Ardy Lay:	This one? -> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-744
[16:27]	renters need	to be able to move prims that overlap over their land borders, even if the center of the prim is on the other piece of land.
[16:27]	Simon Linden:	Hmm, let me think a bit ...
[16:28]	Simon Linden:	It was encouraging to me that there was more emphsis on performance and a better in-world experience than before
[16:28]	Arawn Spitteler	took a short nap, and forgot where
[16:29]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Simon, Andrew, et al
[16:29]	Simon Linden:	I brought up the idea of more feedback for builders about the various costs of objects ... rendering, physics, bandwidth costs, etc so folks can build more efficient things
[16:29]	Yuu Nakamichi:	Hi everyone
[16:29]	Andrew Linden:	Hello.
[16:29]	Simon Linden:	That was well recieved, but not sure when we can translate it to a real feature
[16:29]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[16:30]	Arawn Spitteler:	That would be handy, for builders, buyers and parcel holders
[16:30]	Arawn Spitteler:	Cost would be relative, however
[16:30]	Simon Linden:	... I was told a certain viewer release that may or many not exist may have a feature to tell you the verticies count on objects, which would help a bit
[16:30]	Ardy Lay:	I think somebody, maybe Nyx, grabbed object rendering cost and ran with it.
[16:30]	Simon Linden:	Right, that's it
[16:31]	Rex Cronon:	that would be useful on mehes, simon:)
[16:31]	Ludo Merit:	What's a mehe?
[16:31]	Andrew Linden:	s/mehe/mesh/
[16:32]	Rex Cronon:	mesh*
[16:32]	Arawn Spitteler	didn't bother looking for a sim named Mesh
[16:32]	Simon Linden:	Right - meshes will be a really significant advance, but are also a total performance problem if we blindly allow super-complex models to be loaded for rendering or the physics engine
[16:32]	Rex Cronon:	sorry. i seem to make quite a few typo:(
[16:33]	Arawn Spitteler:	We haven't perfect support for Holows
[16:33]	Ludo Merit:	You know we residents will push the boundaries as hard as we can.
[16:33]	Arawn Spitteler:	Only the Beta Testers of Reality
[16:33]	Joey Aboma:	Too bad they don't use a non-authoritated server solution
[16:34]	Joey Aboma:	OK
[16:35]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... I seem to recall saying in late 2008 that 2009 would be a good year -- lots of good stuff.
[16:35]	Andrew Linden:	I was just wondering whether I thought 2010 would be a good year, with lots of good stuff released in SL...
[16:35]	Arawn Spitteler:	SL2, Mesh, Transparency...
[16:35]	Simon Linden:	Not sure if any of you use Twitter, but I've finally gotten around to making a Simon Linden (SImon_Linden_AV) account and will put out some occasional updates ... office hour notices at least :)
[16:35]	Joey Aboma:	iPad will bring some intersting uses of SL
[16:36]	Joey Aboma:	Could take interaction to new levels
[16:37]	Rex Cronon:	too bad apple is so hardheaded about allowing plugins for their browser. like java, or flash:(
[16:37]	Andrew Linden:	I guess I'll just say: I think 2010 will be better than 2009. If we successfully deliver mesh that may cover it.
[16:38]	Yuu Nakamichi:	Simon, thanks for the info, will add you
[16:38]	Joey Aboma:	Anyone hear any word on an SL web viewer this spring?
[16:38]	Ludo Merit:	Ludo Merit
[16:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Ludo
[16:38]	Ludo Merit:	Hi, Arawn
[16:38]	Andrew Linden:	Joey, you mean an SL viewer that runs inside the web browser?
[16:38]	Joey Aboma:	Yes
[16:38]	Joey Aboma:	heard there is one being developed
[16:39]	Andrew Linden:	No, not this spring.
[16:39]	Simon Linden:	Joey - no, I haven't heard anything about that. I know there have been some very limited apps made that just do chat, but not anything that does rendering.
[16:39]	Ardy Lay:	Arawn, what do you mean by SL2? Viewer 2?
[16:39]	Joey Aboma:	I had a friend that used the Unity 3D to visit OpenSim
[16:39]	Joey Aboma:	I may try with SL soon myself
[16:39]	Andrew Linden:	I haven't heard about it (which doesn't necessarily mean it isn't being worked on).
[16:40]	Joey Aboma:	Unity 3D is a game engine
[16:40]	Simon Linden:	Wow, my updates are weird ... I see multiple chairs on top of one another
[16:41]	Liisa Runo:	i have not tested, but http://www.ajaxlife.net seems to be one web browser based SL viewer
[16:41]	Arawn Spitteler:	One feature, I was just wishing for, sounds mostly client side, is a teleport button for our chat windows, so we don't have to open profiles, and on friends' conferences, so we can send tps to those remaining
[16:41]	Joey Aboma:	Yeah but Ajax is down now
[16:42]	Joey Aboma:	It also doesn't do 3D or voice yet
[16:42]	Joey Aboma:	Good work though from a 15-year-old girl
[16:42]	AgileBill Firehawk:	sigh, gotta run - great to see you all!
[16:42]	Rex Cronon:	tc
[16:42]	Joey Aboma:	TC AgileBill
[16:42]	Ludo Merit:	I have a question for Andrew that I'd like to get in before the end of this.
[16:43]	Ardy Lay:	Arawn, see SNOW-402
[16:43]	Adding Teleport	button, in IM panel
[16:43]	Andrew Linden:	go ahead Ludo.
[16:43]	Arawn Spitteler:	Ask first, repeat is he doesn't see it
[16:43]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, what Arawn said. Just ask, and then re-ask if necessary.
[16:43]	Rex Cronon:	test
[16:44]	Ludo Merit:	I have built a megamonster. The Gianfar Peaks of Pern sims wanted a market that lookes like the mountains of pern
[16:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	grade
[16:44]	Ludo Merit:	So I build the thing in the picture beside me. My question is, how can i keep it frorm causing lag.
[16:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	How can we tell if it does?
[16:44]	Ludo Merit:	There's text that explains it.
[16:44]	Rex Cronon:	?
[16:44]	Ludo Merit:	I measured it, as the text says.
[16:45]	Andrew Linden:	Ludo, what is the mountain made of? Boxes or concave prims?
[16:45]	Ludo Merit:	The only megas are the quarter dome and the donut floors.
[16:45]	Simon Linden:	One problem with using megaprims, or even large ones, is that they will cause higher physics load. Not sure if this is the case, but when an AV walks on or collides with an object, the physics engine then includes that object in a bunch of new calculations
[16:46]	Ludo Merit:	And they are 128 m diameter and graded down for higher floors
[16:46]	Joey Aboma:	I'm trying a building with megas shaped like a female robot with rooms inside of it
[16:46]	Rex Cronon:	simon. what i observed is that megprims cause less lag
[16:46]	Ludo Merit:	Two people walking on the floor and touching the back wall at the same time added half a millisecond to physics time.
[16:47]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, that higher physics load has not been proved, and there are good arguments why it won't be worse than identical content that uses more prims for the same effect.
[16:47]	Simon Linden:	The Havok engine makes 'simulation islands' These are a group of objects that are interacting, so at a given instance things in one island are not colliding with anything in another island
[16:47]	Ardy Lay:	Mega-bounding boxes include a lot of other prims in that design.
[16:47]	Ludo Merit:	This is supposed to be a market, there wil be more than two shoppers, I'm sure
[16:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	Market Day will certainly have more than two.
[16:47]	Simon Linden:	Hmm, well I do remember Dan had a test case where walking into a large pile of physical objects slowed down the sim
[16:47]	Andrew Linden:	Perhaps Falcon would know better... however he'll probably say something about how these objects shouldn't be keyframed anyway.
[16:47]	Simon Linden:	They had previously settled and became inactive.
[16:47]	Rex Cronon:	ludo. your market looks like a sculptie:)
[16:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	I hope you're a friend of Robin Sojourner
[16:47]	Ludo Merit:	THat's what I came to ask yuou, Andrew. To replace the floors would require 256 more prims
[16:48]	Joey Aboma:	Robin is great
[16:48]	Simon Linden:	Then when the AV collies with them, it becomes active and there are a lot of new calculations
[16:48]	Ludo Merit:	Only the four megas on the front are sculpted and they are phantom
[16:48]	Andrew Linden:	Ludo, is there significant lag now? In the store?
[16:48]	Arawn Spitteler:	Non-dynamic objects shouldn't cause large islands, or would support multiple islands. They'd have no physics to convey between islands
[16:48]	Ludo Merit:	I don't know, except what I said. Two people walking raise physics time by half a millisecond.
[16:49]	Ludo Merit:	I plan to test with more people
[16:49]	Yuu Nakamichi:	Simon, would the size of the simulation island change because of the size of the mega?
[16:49]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, Ludo try testing it with more people.
[16:49]	Ludo Merit:	I think half a milisecond is a lot when we have 22 and are saving 11 to handle avatars and threadfall
[16:49]	Simon Linden:	Any simulation island would be the mega, plus any physical object (or AV) that's touching it
[16:49]	Yuu Nakamichi:	ok, and would the mega cause more of the new calculations, or rather less, because it would involve fewer prims as you would have otherwise?
[16:50]	Ludo Merit:	I don't understand simulation island
[16:50]	Ardy Lay:	I too have witness this phenomonon thus I refude to use mega-prims as walking surfaces.
[16:50]	Joey Aboma:	I had a question if there's still time to ask
[16:50]	Andrew Linden:	Ask Joey
[16:50]	Ludo Merit:	But it would take 256 prims to replace the four floors
[16:50]	Simon Linden:	Imagine in an empty region, one pile of physical objects, and 10m away, there's a second pile
[16:50]	Joey Aboma:	Can you tell us when SL 2.0 is coming out and if that is scheduled to include mesh support?
[16:51]	Joey Aboma:	Just working on a project that could really use mesh
[16:51]	Arawn Spitteler:	Collision Islets, where this collision effects that collision, and these have to resettle, each time something bumps, but those bumps shouldn't communicate through static objects
[16:51]	Simon Linden:	If they aren't near or touching, they can't interact, so the physics engine knows all the objects in one pile can't affect the other
[16:51]	Simon Linden:	So there are fewer calculations
[16:51]	Andrew Linden:	Ludo, I think we've got some physics engine optimizations in the pipeline that should make yoru question moot, however they would be in server-1.38 at the *earliest*. So that would be... mid April or something.
[16:51]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think Simon and Andrew are both unable to answer about the NDA, for different reasons
[16:51]	Ludo Merit:	I was told that prims embedded in megas cause trouble, but I couldn't avoid embedding because of the curves.
[16:52]	Andrew Linden:	No Joey, I can't comment on a viewer 2.0 release date or mesh.
[16:52]	Ludo Merit:	That's good news. Meanwhile, all you can suggest is that I do more testing?
[16:52]	Joey Aboma:	OK thanks anyways
[16:52]	Andrew Linden:	you might try asking the guys who are working on mesh -- I think they hold office hours.
[16:52]	Ardy Lay:	Viewer 2.0, according to the Linden blog, will be available sometime in February, maybe March and 2.0 is not expected to include meshsupport. but 2.1 is.
[16:53]	Simon Linden:	Is there any way you can take out the mega prim or use a few smaller ones to compare it?
[16:53]	Simon Linden:	I guess that's hard in a working sim
[16:53]	Andrew Linden	goes to read the blog.
[16:53]	Ludo Merit:	Can't make a donut as wide a s a 128 quarter sphere without a mega
[16:53]	Joey Aboma:	TY Ardy
[16:53]	Simon Linden:	yeah, I understand
[16:53]	Ludo Merit:	The alternative is ringmaker, with regular prims, and I tried that. Can't get them to line up, and it takes 59x4 of them
[16:54]	Rex Cronon:	what do u mean "line up"?
[16:54]	Joey Aboma:	That was an image of the project I'm working with megas for an Artificial Intelligence Learning Center for the IEEE
[16:55]	Ludo Merit:	I need three rows of megaprims going half way around a 128 circle and each row moving inward. They won't line up with each other. I can't get them to rotate into line.
[16:55]	Rex Cronon:	what image, joey?
[16:55]	Ardy Lay:	Andrew, the part about when mesh support is expected was from Nyx Linden's OH several weeks ago.
[16:55]	Ludo Merit:	And it takes 19 prims per circle, so 59 per floor
[16:55]	Ardy Lay:	The viewer release I think was a recent blog by M.
[16:55]	Joey Aboma	gave you IEEE-AILC.
[16:55]	Joey Aboma:	There you go Rex
[16:56]	Ludo Merit:	The floors are 30 meters deep, ten outside the stores, twenty inside.
[16:56]	Andrew Linden:	I see the mention of a hopefull Feb release of viewer-2.0, but not meshes for 2.1 -- but then I scanned very quickly.
[16:56]	Rex Cronon:	thanks. it is loading
[16:56]	Joey Aboma:	thanks
[16:57]	Ardy Lay:	Andrew, the part about when mesh support is expected was from Nyx Linden's OH several weeks ago. No promises were made. We were just told not to be upset when 2.0 doesn't have mesh.
[16:57]	Joey Aboma:	IEEE is looking to create a learning center for people to learn about everything in Artificial Intelligence and Robotics
[16:57]	Ardy Lay:	So he may be pulling our legs and it will be there. You know how Nyx is.
[16:57]	Joey Aboma:	We'll use some new application of web services technologies
[16:57]	Andrew Linden:	Ah I see. And yes, a 2.1 and 2.2 are expected shortly after 2.0 (months?)
[16:58]	Ardy Lay:	Quarterly, I think the blog mentioned.
[16:58]	Joey Aboma:	Making it with rooms that reconfigure as you select things through the web services
[16:58]	Arawn Spitteler:	Who's that fellow working on NOAA etc sims?
[16:58]	Yuu Nakamichi:	I have to run, hope to see you next week at the usual time
[16:58]	Rex Cronon:	tc
[16:58]	Andrew Linden:	See you later Yuu.
[16:58]	Joey Aboma:	I have him in my friends list for NOAA
[16:58]	Joey Aboma:	Let me check
[16:58]	Joey Aboma:	TC Yuu
[16:59]	Yuu Nakamichi:	see you next Thu :)
[16:59]	Arawn Spitteler:	I've an idea, he might like to view today's transcript.
[16:59]	Arawn Spitteler:	Would a static prim be involved in more than one collision island?
[16:59]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hard to phrase parcibly
[16:59]	Ludo Merit:	Static means it doesn't move, right?
[17:00]	Joey Aboma:	NOAA persons is avatar Nasus Dumart
[17:00]	Joey Aboma:	Sorry
[17:00]	Joey Aboma:	Hackshaven Hatford
[17:00]	Joey Aboma:	Copy didn't work
[17:00]	Andrew Linden:	Actually, the "activation island" is used to figure out what objects need to be "woken up" and moved from Havok's inactive list to their active list.
[17:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	Non-Physics, to the extent that other things can collide with it, but won't be moved
[17:00]	Andrew Linden:	An object would only be in one activation island
[17:01]	Andrew Linden:	so if two objects overlap... then they cause the activation island to span both objects
[17:01]	Simon Linden:	If it gets to that case, it combines them to make one larger simulation island
[17:01]	Joey Aboma:	Has Linden Lab ever considered using instancing technologies?
[17:01]	Andrew Linden:	the Pern market is one big giant activation island
[17:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	A 10X10 Block, between two missles trying to shoot each other, could conceivably be invovled in seperate islands
[17:01]	Ludo Merit:	So the whole market would be an activation island because the floors penetrate the quarter sphere?
[17:01]	Joey Aboma:	That helps put things on the client instead of so much being done on the server end
[17:01]	Andrew Linden:	Joey, what do you mean by "instancing"?
[17:02]	Joey Aboma:	It makes instances of the SIMs
[17:02]	Ludo Merit:	If I left a visible gap between the floors and the quarter sphere, and between the nonmega walls and the quarter sphere, would that make it four activation islands?
[17:02]	Joey Aboma:	ANother thing that could help is using occulsion
[17:02]	Joey Aboma:	So that you only load the visible geometry
[17:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	Has there been an examination, of whether it would be simpler, to have non-dynamic objects not join collision islands?
[17:03]	Andrew Linden:	Ludo, probably not. Even if you leave a gap between the floors and walls... the walking avatars will join the islands together
[17:04]	Ludo Merit:	But only if they touch both, right?
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	you'd have to put the gaps up near the roof rather than the floors -- might help
[17:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	The ground doesn't join collision islands, does it?
[17:04]	Ludo Merit:	Avs can't walk near the spehere very well because the walls slant in
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	but the mountaind behind... it has big axis aligned activation island box that will joint other nearby boxes
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	btw, the activation islands are all axis-alligned boxes
[17:05]	Ludo Merit:	Ah, yyou are saying everything inside th quart5er sphere is toudning it
[17:05]	Ludo Merit:	?
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	if you have a long narrow object going diagonal in XY plane it makes a really big activation island
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	er... big in the XY directioons... not necessarily in the Z direction
[17:06]	Ludo Merit:	Ouch!. That's worse than bounding boxes
[17:06]	Simon Linden:	I think they're basically axis-aligned bounding boxes ... is that right, Andrew?
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	Ludo, it is hard for me to see how the mountain sits... I'm assuming the mountian looms very close, and the market leans into the mountain... like a big cave?
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	Yes Simon, that is right.
[17:07]	Ludo Merit:	Theso called mountain is a 128 diameter quarte sphere, hollowed
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	What is inside the mountain?
[17:08]	Ludo Merit:	four mega floors, like half donuts, and non mega walls between stores on those floors
[17:08]	Rex Cronon:	i hope u made your sculpties phantom
[17:08]	Arawn Spitteler	wonders if the ring stretch trick might help, a little, but is sure it won't limit the collision space
[17:08]	Ludo Merit:	The four on the front, yess. Those are the only sculpties
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	ok, so if those floors are inside the mountain, then it doesn't make sense to try to put any gaps anywhere... the mountain shell itself will collapse everything into one big activation island
[17:09]	Ludo Merit:	Yep, that's what I was beginning to see from what you said
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... I just remembered that Falcon Linden expressed interest in attending these office hours.
[17:09]	Joey Aboma:	Has anyone made spaces for avatars inside of hollow megaprims before?
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	I'll remind him about that idea on Tuesday. Maybe he'll be able to attend.
[17:09]	Ludo Merit:	Yes, and way back when I told a guy to change his hollow 50 by 50 into four walls
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	And he can answer any Havok questions I might be answering incorrectly.
[17:10]	Ludo Merit:	Because he could not tp more than ten meters inside that thing
[17:10]	Simon Linden:	I talked to T Linden last night (beer was involved) and he said if we can find him with available time during one of these office hours he'd be interested in coming
[17:10]	Ludo Merit:	But I tested tp inside the quarter sphere and it works
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	T Linden?
[17:10]	Ludo Merit:	Sittarget tp.
[17:10]	Joey Aboma:	i used a teleporter inside my megaprim room and works nice
[17:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	TP Limits, inside Megas? That might bave been a bug
[17:11]	Joey Aboma:	But i will have 3 rooms with scripts running to reconfigure them
[17:11]	Joey Aboma:	Like a room remote
[17:11]	Ludo Merit:	It was a long time ago. What happened was that helanded firther away from target the faruther he tped
[17:11]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah Ludo, there isn't any point in trying to optimize your activation islands... the half-sphere shell makes it hopelss.
[17:11]	Andrew Linden:	Ludo, if I were you I'd just wait for our physics engine improvements to come out and see what happens.
[17:11]	Ludo Merit:	This whole thing is hopeless. The only remaining question is what's the avatar/lag curve
[17:12]	Ludo Merit:	Can't wait, they want the market now
[17:12]	Arawn Spitteler:	Would it be possible to build lots of little sculpty pebbles, to replace the quarter sphere?
[17:12]	Rex Cronon:	hopefull havok is better:)
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	That means you can live with any performance problems and hope they get better soon (before summer).
[17:12]	Ludo Merit:	True.
[17:12]	Rex Cronon:	havok7*
[17:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	Should be doable with 21 sculpties
[17:13]	Ludo Merit:	arawn, not and still make it curvy. They told me the sensible market I built was too boxy
[17:13]	Ludo Merit:	Thanks, Joey
[17:13]	Joey Aboma:	YW
[17:13]	Joey Aboma:	That's what I'm working on
[17:14]	Joey Aboma:	It's for the largest organization in RL of scientists and engineers - IEEE
[17:15]	Rex Cronon:	joey. how many prim do u se for the bot?
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, I've got to head out.
[17:15]	Rex Cronon:	do u use*
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks for coming everyone.
[17:15]	Ludo Merit:	And the pebbles would have to be sculpties, and arent' sculpties worse for bounding boxes and lag?
[17:15]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew
[17:15]	Joey Aboma:	Not sure yet - maybe around 9 or so
[17:15]	Ludo Merit:	And the market has to be solid so people won't walkj off it
[17:15]	Joey Aboma:	Some will be reg size and some mega
[17:15]	Simon Linden:	I have to go too ... thanks everyone for coming
[17:15]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon
[17:15]	Sniper Siemens:	ty
[17:15]	s translator:	ty
[17:15]	Joey Aboma:	Probably only 3 of them megas
[17:16]	Joey Aboma:	TC Andrew nice to meet you
[17:16]	Ludo Merit:	Thahnks simon
[17:16]	Rex Cronon:	i am talking about building that looks like a robot
[17:16]	Joey Aboma:	Yes
[17:16]	Ludo Merit:	Thanks a lot, Andrew.
[17:16]	Joey Aboma:	It will be a woman robot building
[17:16]	Ludo Merit	nods sardonically.
[17:16]	Joey Aboma:	megaprim for the head, body and sphere of light
[17:17]	Joey Aboma:	The robot will be made from sculpties
[17:17]	Rex Cronon:	only 9 prims? interesting
[17:17]	Joey Aboma:	hollowed megas with rooms inside of the robot
[17:17]	Joey Aboma:	I have the model in Maya
[17:17]	Joey Aboma:	but am having it rebuilt
[17:17]	Joey Aboma:	so it works in SL
[17:18]	Rex Cronon:	if u could mak that whole building move:)
[17:18]	Simon Linden:	Your AV never rendered for me ... still a white blob
[17:18]	Rex Cronon:	could make*
[17:18]	Joey Aboma:	It will be better than moving
[17:18]	Joey Aboma:	It will integrate technologies with the web
[17:18]	Joey Aboma:	So you make a choice on teh web
[17:18]	Joey Aboma:	and the room reconfigures around you
[17:19]	Rex Cronon:	sounds interesting
[17:19]	Simon Linden:	Bye everyon

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