User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 02 09

Transcript

[11:00]	Andrew Linden:	Hello
[11:00]	CPU Core:	hello
[11:00]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Hey Andrew.
[11:00]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I remember the 60 interlace flickers from old times. It was strange, 60Hz non-interlace did not flicker unlike 60Hz interlace. TV is interlace to elemate flicker. I though it was strange.
[11:00]	Welcome to	Linden office hours
[11:01]	Opensource Obscure:	thank you Meeter!
[11:01]	silverbackmale Looming:	is there a limit to this table?
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	what is this scrolling graph behind me? anyone know?
[11:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think it would be at least a dozen
[11:02]	Liisa Runo:	it is performance meter
[11:02]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	It looks like moon's sim performance meter
[11:02]	Johan Laurasia:	looks like a dilation meter
[11:02]	silverbackmale Looming:	have we got 12 here?
[11:02]	Phantom Ninetails:	Those are pretty huge particles for a lag meter
[11:02]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Apparently Simon set it up.
[11:02]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Its moon performace meter. It was well recived by the sim devolopers. :-)(
[11:02]	CPU Core:	there isnt really a scripting limit for how big it can become
[11:02]	Yuu Nakamichi:	Hi Simon
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	so what is the blue and what is the magenta?
[11:03]	silverbackmale Looming:	would some one elsesit here to plz
[11:03]	Simon Linden:	Hello
[11:03]	CPU Core:	the table wont grow but the circle of chairs can grow as much as you would want
[11:03]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Blue looks average.
[11:03]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Just a prim size limit because the table can only be 10m across.
[11:03]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Magenta being actual.
[11:03]	CPU Core:	yeah
[11:03]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[11:03]	silverbackmale Looming:	hi simon
[11:03]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Hey Simon
[11:03]	Dirk Talamasca:	Hiya Rex
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	ah yes, that sounds right
[11:03]	silverbackmale Looming:	really should tp people in to sit lol!
[11:03]	Simon Linden:	wow, slow rezzing since I'm at home on a 400k crappy DSL line
[11:04]	Rex Cronon:	hi dirk
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	Extra slower than usual?
[11:04]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Light is RGB while print is CYM. That is due to light is additive and paint/print is subtractive.
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	Actually, yes. Every winter when it rains there's more noise on the phone lines, and bandwidth drops :(
[11:04]	silverbackmale Looming:	simon take a seat plz
[11:04]	CPU Core:	i seem very laggy right now
[11:04]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, I'm laggin' pretty bad
[11:04]	Liisa Runo:	and here is some of my favorite jira's that i always feed to the meeter: SVC-3514 VWR-6964 SVC-422
[11:04]	Muting object	(or object owner) does not mute dialogs
[11:04]	Muting object	(or object owner) does not mute dialogs
[11:04]	and other	LLMessageBox-generating functions) should be per-agent throttled, not delayed
[11:04]	and other	LLMessageBox-generating functions) should be per-agent throttled, not delayed
[11:04]	A solution	to scams, money theft - etc. New parcels Flag "Block Transactions
[11:04]	A solution	to scams, money theft - etc. New parcels Flag "Block Transactions
[11:04]	Muting object	(or object owner) does not mute dialogs
[11:04]	and other	LLMessageBox-generating functions) should be per-agent throttled, not delayed
[11:04]	A solution	to scams, money theft - etc. New parcels Flag "Block Transactions
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	I'm waiting for the empty seat to appear
[11:05]	silverbackmale Looming:	yes
[11:05]	Rex Cronon:	wow. please no more walls of text:(
[11:05]	silverbackmale Looming:	to your right
[11:05]	Kaluura Boa:	=^_^=
[11:05]	Simon Linden:	Still missing the table and a few chairs
[11:05]	Phantom Ninetails:	Urgh I really hate having the "appearance" option on huds
[11:05]	Liisa Runo:	hmm, meeter is broken today?
[11:05]	silverbackmale Looming:	OHMIGAWD! think cpu is correct this thing will keep growing
[11:06]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Walls of text are a great lag tester. ;-)
[11:06]	Liisa Runo:	meeter dont usually spam that much
[11:06]	silverbackmale Looming:	no
[11:06]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	It was several different JIRA helpers responding to the same prompts :P
[11:06]	Rex Cronon:	laaaag:(
[11:06]	CPU Core:	but i guess the creator would put a sensible limit in it :)
[11:07]	Kaluura Boa:	There are 2 of them... Meeter and Jira-Helper
[11:07]	silverbackmale Looming:	yes
[11:07]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	One of them, is now gone.
[11:07]	Arawn Spitteler:	Has the Meeter yet mentioned SVC-22 or SVC-93?
[11:07]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[11:07]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[11:07]	silverbackmale Looming:	End of line...
[11:07]	Arawn Spitteler:	Wow, chat lag
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	it appears that there is feedback between the meeter and an object called "JIRA-helper"
[11:07]	Simon Linden:	The meeter is the funky box on the railing
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	which is why three jira #'s created that wall of text
[11:08]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Jem. I was just about to ask, why I seem to be crashing so much today. Is that my side, or SL?
[11:08]	silverbackmale Looming:	robot
[11:08]	Jem Modan:	hello..
[11:08]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[11:08]	silverbackmale Looming:	hi jem
[11:08]	Arawn Spitteler:	Grab a seat, and jump right in with any questions.
[11:08]	silverbackmale Looming:	hi rex
[11:09]	Rex Cronon:	hi silverbackmale. interesting name:)
[11:09]	silverbackmale Looming:	i have a random question do they count?
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	ok so announcements...
[11:09]	Jem Modan:	I've been using a warp pos script, but now isn't working...do I just say the question here?
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	I don't really have any... server-1.36 will have a pilot deploy soon (tomorrow?) and then the full deploy will happen next week
[11:10]	Liisa Runo:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.36
[11:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	Aditi?
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	but that info should be on some public web page somewhere
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... mabye the deploy is next week? lemme double check
[11:10]	Simon Linden:	I don't have any annoucements either ... been working on the Linden Homes deployment https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/land/blog/2010/01/25/linden-homes-to-launch-february-17th
[11:10]	Opensource Obscure:	is it 1.36 or 1.38 that includes support for Viewer2 ?
[11:11]	Simon Linden:	Pilot is this week, full roll next week I think
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	yup you're right Simon
[11:11]	Simon Linden:	Hmm, seem to have lost a chat msg:
[11:11]	Johan Laurasia:	pretty sure 1.36 does
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	actually the last several server deploys have had incremental changes for viewer-2.0 support
[11:11]	Simon Linden:	I don't have annoucements, have been working on the Linden Homes release : https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/land/blog/2010/01/25/linden-homes-to-launch-february-17th
[11:12]	Liisa Runo:	here * 2010-02-10, 7a - 12p: Pilot Regions[1]
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	I think the level of support in server-1.36 will enable an expansion of the viewer-2.0 testing
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	that is, they'll probably open up the alpha to beta sometime before 1.38
[11:13]	Phantom Ninetails:	Like people are going to go premium and risk losing their account forever if they miss a payment..
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	or maybe it is currently in closed beta and will go open, not sure
[11:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	Just remember to have payment info when you want to regrade to Basic
[11:13]	Liisa Runo:	Phantom, i asked Jack and he said that LL dont wipe inventories anymore
[11:13]	Phantom Ninetails:	Just disable accounts, yeah
[11:14]	Liisa Runo:	butaccount you can get back if you pay
[11:14]	Liisa Runo:	-typos*
[11:14]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Hmm...they need to advertized that fact. I know many don't get primioum due to that fact. But that is another dicussion.
[11:14]	Arawn Spitteler:	WEB-1406, Phantom
[11:14]	Phantom Ninetails:	hmm not quite what I heard, but I guess I don't have first hand experience with it..
[11:14]	Panic Check	- Tier Drops need warnings, and invitations to clarify.
[11:14]	Simon Linden:	That handling does need improvement, and the product guy for premium accounts agrees. I'll ping him again on it
[11:15]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think Zeusdinne is due some compensation, but that's a discussion for office hours that don't happen
[11:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	Legal, finance, and governance are high burnout office hours
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	I've been working on some misc bugs -- trying to get them set up for QA. Nothing very interesting in that list.
[11:16]	silverbackmale Looming:	star take a seat
[11:16]	CPU Core:	or dance
[11:16]	Starfire Rhapsody:	Lol sorry for rezzin in
[11:16]	Phantom Ninetails:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1961
[11:16]	Premium accounts	that miss payments to LL risk having the account & inventory getting deleted
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	Most of the bug fixes are old -- server-1.36 has backed up the queue that is pending QA attention.
[11:17]	Arawn Spitteler:	We should have tables that sit people, until they rez
[11:17]	Patricie Sapphire:	hello ?
[11:17]	silverbackmale Looming:	pat take a seat hun
[11:17]	Starfire Rhapsody:	next to me pat :D
[11:17]	Patricie Sapphire:	waiting on rezz
[11:17]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is there any idea, why I've crashed a couple times, earlier today?
[11:18]	Simon Linden:	Arawn - is that a viewer or server crash?
[11:18]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[11:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	Jem's a script that's stack crashing, which was okay yesterday.
[11:18]	silverbackmale Looming:	only a couple for you
[11:18]	silverbackmale Looming:	it was like 5 for me
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	no Arawn, I don't have any theory why you've crashed more than usual today
[11:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	When the viewer claims I'd been logged off? Probably viewer side.
[11:18]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Andrew, a while back we had a very promising discussion about a value to replace WarpPos and PosJump, called PRIM_REGION_POS for llSetPrimitiveParams, and I believe there was a lot of support for it. Is there a chance that will be addressed soon?
[11:19]	silverbackmale Looming:	anthing on the arm animation thing?
[11:19]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	As I recall, it would have been just like PRIM_POSITION, except with the 10m cap removed.
[11:19]	Liisa Runo:	mid feb if i remember properly
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	Sebastian, work on that would go into my MISC-3077 project
[11:19]	List of	Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions With Large Returns
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	I need to add a comment on that jira item
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	Andrew Linden makes a note.
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	The status of MISC-3077 is this:
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	a few small items have been done in that branch... only two or three
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	I started looking into implementing some improved "sensor" stuff and got ambushed by the horrible mess that is the sensor code
[11:21]	Liisa Runo:	llGetRegionAgentKeyList();
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	so I started to clean it up, which slowed me down -- I'm actually trying to add some unit tests to that bit of code
[11:21]	Phantom Ninetails:	:o is this related to the PHYSICAL flag I wanted
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	so I can verify that my changes haven't busted anything
[11:22]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Sebastean Steamweaver nods
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	so now I've got this branch without much useful stuff in it, but lots of changes
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	so I think I need to just submit what I've got to QA so that codebase doesn't drift apart for too long
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	I'm planning on trying to submit that to QA this week or next
[11:22]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Would the object scaling happen to be in the changes?
[11:22]	Jem Modan:	[11:04] Jem Modan: I have a question, if any one has the time, please? I am using two scripts, a "rez on touch" script; when the object is touched it rezzes another object, and a WarpPos script..this script is in the rezzed object. If I rezz the second object manually, from my inventory, the WarpPos works just fine. However, when rezzed via the Rez on Touch, I get a "Script Run time error" and "Stack Heap Collision" when I try to activate (by sitting on) the rezzed object. Can anyone advise? I've worked with this till I'm ready to throw the computer across the room (Ever so helpful). I'm completely stumped. [11:04] Jem Modan: BTW, the script worked FINE yesterday afternoon.
[11:22]	Busy Listener	(HUD): llDialog: message too long, must be less than 512 characters
[11:23]	Phantom Ninetails:	Crazy
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	however there are two other maint-server branches that need to be submitted first
[11:23]	silverbackmale Looming:	pat what was the thing making the arms of people in the sim bug out?
[11:23]	Patricie Sapphire:	it was a ani script
[11:23]	Liisa Runo:	the warp takes giant pile of memory, try jumpPos or recompiling the warp script to MONO
[11:24]	Patricie Sapphire:	no owner
[11:24]	Patricie Sapphire:	no source code
[11:24]	Jem Modan:	Lisa, thank you.
[11:24]	Simon Linden:	Jem - I don't think anything has changed on the system since yesterday
[11:24]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Would the object scaling happen to be in those changes Andrew? That was my other point of concern.
[11:24]	Simon Linden:	But that's odd
[11:24]	Jem Modan:	Jem Modan nods
[11:25]	silverbackmale Looming:	that was really odd no owner, not in inventory and lots 0's
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	Huh... Jem the script reliably failes today in all regions? Have you tried using it in more than one region?
[11:25]	Jem Modan:	no, just my home region andrew. Dee.
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	I can't imagine what would have caused it to suddenly fail... hrm...
[11:26]	Arawn Spitteler:	If it only fails in your own region, then it's probably the region
[11:26]	Johan Laurasia:	are you getting the stack heap collision in the rezzer script, or the warpos script?
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	You say the script tries to invoke an animation override?
[11:26]	silverbackmale Looming:	yup
[11:26]	Patricie Sapphire:	yes
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	I think Jem meant that it has only been tested in the home region.
[11:27]	Jem Modan:	in the warp pos script, if it is invoked from the rezzed object. If I rezz the object manually, from inventory, all works well.
[11:27]	Patricie Sapphire:	oddly enough when that happens many avatars seem to have problems with other things as well
[11:27]	Jem Modan:	Yes..I havent tried it anywhere else. other than in Dee.
[11:27]	silverbackmale Looming:	like voice etc..
[11:27]	Jem Modan:	Should I? take it to a sandbox and try it?
[11:28]	Starfire Rhapsody:	yea when the animation thing happens usually you can see everyones partical beams go off
[11:28]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, also try to determine which script is giving you the stack heap collision
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah Jem, at least try one other region.
[11:28]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I would Jem. Also, WarpPos may not be the culprit. It could be that another part of the script is taking up more memory. Check your on-rez event and see what happens inside it. (I'm assuming it has one)
[11:28]	Kaluura Boa:	There was a time yesterday when things were supposed to go havok... 90 minutes during which the grid was closed
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	I don't have many bright ideas on why it would work for manual rez and fail for script rez.
[11:28]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	It could fail if different things are beign done, based on what object rezzes it.
[11:29]	silverbackmale Looming:	its a hack
[11:29]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	avtar vs object
[11:29]	Johan Laurasia:	maybe it's the rezzer script generating the error
[11:29]	Jem Modan:	Jem Modan listens.
[11:29]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	It could also be that the script has a saved state from a previous run.
[11:29]	Patricie Sapphire:	I think that as well
[11:29]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	So that the WarpPos is trying to build another list on top of an old one.
[11:30]	Johan Laurasia:	ah, that's probably it Sebastean
[11:30]	silverbackmale Looming:	i know we can't say hack but its a hack lol!
[11:30]	Jem Modan:	Now see..i had asked some friends to beta test, after it all worked for me yesterday..and it was after thebeta test that things failed. When I went to see what was up.there WERE two objects rezzed and sitting there.
[11:30]	Liisa Runo:	(and the animation thing and select particle thing is created by a griefer with grief-client)
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	Jem, on the manual rez... are you rezzing form yoru inventory? or dragging out of the object contents?
[11:30]	office hours	is half over
[11:31]	Jem Modan:	Anddrew..I can do either. Drag froom inventory or from object contents. Both produce an object with warp pos that works as intended.
[11:32]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Jem, did you write the scripts? I don't recall you metnioning that.
[11:32]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	mentioning*
[11:32]	silverbackmale Looming:	is any one taking minutes i missed the 2.0 stuff
[11:32]	Jem Modan:	I did not, Sebastion. They are free ware scripts from the lsl wikia.
[11:32]	Arawn Spitteler:	Oh, the only people taking notes on the 2.0 stuff are under NDA
[11:32]	Simon Linden:	I have a question for the scripters here ... would you find a function like llGetFrameNumber() useful? This would return a number, which increments for every server frame
[11:32]	Arawn Spitteler:	We can't tell you about the NDA
[11:32]	Kaluura Boa:	2.0? Nobodoy talked about 2.0...
[11:33]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I could see some places where it would be useful Simon, yes.
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	Ardy Lay usually posts these office hour transcripts on the wiki.
[11:33]	Johan Laurasia:	Void Singer would probably love that
[11:33]	Rex Cronon:	what frame r u talking about simon?
[11:33]	silverbackmale Looming:	oh its ok i can scroll now
[11:33]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Sim frames Rex, I think.
[11:33]	Phantom Ninetails:	Wouldn't that limit server run time to DEBUG_CHANNEL/45 seconds?
[11:33]	Liisa Runo:	sounds neat, but there are other easy things you can do that will be more usefull
[11:34]	Simon Linden:	killer chat lag for me today
[11:34]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I have to agree with Liisa there. I would rather the object scaling functions before that.
[11:34]	Johan Laurasia:	me too
[11:34]	Phantom Ninetails:	I can't really think of a reason why I'd need it
[11:35]	Rex Cronon:	i have even a better idea for a simple yet very usefull new lsl function: llInputBox(key userKey, string msg)
[11:35]	Rex Cronon:	:)
[11:35]	Rex Cronon:	which returns a string:)
[11:35]	Jonathan Yap:	Rex, that function already exists as llTextBox
[11:35]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Would the object scaling happen to be in those changes Andrew? That was my other point of concern. If not, it's fine, I just wanted to know.
[11:36]	Jonathan Yap:	You can use it in Emerald rightnow
[11:36]	Rex Cronon:	jonathan. it doesn't work:(
[11:36]	Jonathan Yap:	Only in Emerald
[11:36]	Jonathan Yap:	It almost made it into Snowglobe
[11:36]	Rex Cronon:	almost is not good enough:(
[11:36]	Kaluura Boa:	Almost... That's not enough
[11:37]	Arawn Spitteler:	Arawn Spitteler douts textbox will be implemented for SL2.3
[11:37]	Jonathan Yap:	The permission to use it from the patch author came too late to make the 1.3 cutoff
[11:37]	Liisa Runo:	llGetSLTime(); would be easy and usefull. i know it can be calculated from unix stamp put the function is like 300 lines long
[11:38]	Johan Laurasia:	it's called llGetWallClock()
[11:38]	Johan Laurasia:	that returns SL time
[11:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	How about llWakeMeAt(time)?
[11:38]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	llGetTimestampOffset would also be very useful, getting the timestamp of a timezone other than this one, which is sensitive to DST..
[11:39]	Johan Laurasia:	what5 time, wall clock, unix, etc...
[11:39]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	optionally* sensitive to DST
[11:40]
[11:40]
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	Babbage Linden is working a way to enable script versioning, so you can specify which version of the script engine you want to use during compile time.
[11:40]	Phantom Ninetails:	I was looking at that board Liisa put up over there, wondering why the Lindens put a delay in llDialog..
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	if he were to get that done, then I could fix SVC-93 in the new version without adding a new llFunctionCall()
[11:40]	Phantom Ninetails:	Pretending they don't want delays, and then adding in delays to functions that should not have delays
[11:40]	Kaluura Boa:	The delay is to prevent spamming...
[11:41]	Phantom Ninetails:	It doesn't prevent spamming. Spammers still spam with it.
[11:41]	Rex Cronon:	what phantom says is true:(
[11:41]	Kaluura Boa:	That was the intention at least
[11:41]	Phantom Ninetails:	It only prevents good scripts from behaving properly
[11:41]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	The issue is there are more efficient and useful ways to prevent spamming, like throttling them.
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	I have to admit... the prospect of an LSL versioning has made me hesitate to fix some things now... better to wait until later.
[11:41]	Liisa Runo:	wallclock return a float i need to calculate, i want something that return SL time in a string or bitfield
[11:41]	CPU Core:	LSL has a lot of false limits which dont seem to have any need to exist
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	Not that I have time to do everything that I want to do anyway.
[11:41]	Patricie Sapphire:	lol, that would be nice, but improbable
[11:42]	Simon Linden:	fun with networks!
[11:42]	Johan Laurasia:	We need some Andrew clones
[11:42]	Phantom Ninetails:	The limit on llDialog was added much more recently than other delays.
[11:42]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I claim one for myself right now.
[11:42]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I'll preorder.
[11:42]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Do you come in various colors?
[11:42]	Arawn Spitteler:	We'll have to ask Art Laxness
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	heh, did anyone see the "help a linden" video, asking for help to upgrade some of our lame avatars?
[11:43]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Hehe
[11:43]	Jonathan Yap:	Yes! :)
[11:43]	Starfire Rhapsody:	Lol yes i saw that
[11:43]	Patricie Sapphire:	yes
[11:43]	Patricie Sapphire:	good laugh, that was
[11:43]	Johan Laurasia:	no, link pls...lol
[11:43]	silverbackmale Looming:	lol! post the link
[11:43]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I haven't seen that one X)
[11:43]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Sounds like an entertaining video though.
[11:43]	CPU Core:	i want a link too
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	apparently I was highlighted as one of the Lindens who has a lame legacy avatar with bad skin and clothes
[11:43]	Patricie Sapphire:	yes, you were
[11:43]	Jonathan Yap:	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cQqSvajdbg
[11:43]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	I immediately thought of Andrew
[11:43]	Stev Spiegel:	Turley is giving fashion advice?
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	it almost convinced me to take the time to upgrade, but I'm still too busy.
[11:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	I thought you liked it that way
[11:44]	Liisa Runo:	..yeas, LL need more staff. loads more. and anyone with calculator knows that SL makes insane profit, so cant be about money
[11:44]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Sounds liket he guy says "abbletar"
[11:44]	silverbackmale Looming:	that vid is sooo funny lol!
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	I'm attached to the general look, but I might add some shadows to my outfit and go with a better skin.
[11:44]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Hehe, Andrew, your look is signature.
[11:45]	Starfire Rhapsody:	:D
[11:45]	Patricie Sapphire:	more 3 dimensional Andrew, lol
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	I don't want sculpty shoes or prim hair.
[11:45]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Heh.
[11:45]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	No no no, no hair. I like the "King and I" look.
[11:45]	silverbackmale Looming:	true but the vid is still funny
[11:45]	Johan Laurasia:	no doubt... you look too newbish Andrew, which is ironic
[11:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	The King and Eye?
[11:45]	Ari Jillybean:	yous looks like a huggy bear you shoulds stay likes that *smiles*
[11:46]	silverbackmale Looming:	we should start a telephon
[11:46]	Patricie Sapphire:	but we all envy your rendering cost
[11:46]	Rex Cronon:	mabye u should get a soccer ball to carry under your arm:)
[11:46]	silverbackmale Looming:	555-dressalinden
[11:46]	Starfire Rhapsody:	hehe
[11:46]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Yul Brynner was awesome.
[11:46]	Liisa Runo:	i dont mind Lindens who look like noobs, but Lindens who behave like noobs are a problem, so many of them dont have autoreturn on their land, and land squatters have taken over
[11:46]	silverbackmale Looming:	luv west world
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	Richard Linden has a really cool new avatar that he made.
[11:47]	Johan Laurasia:	Weren't you around since the begining Anderew?
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	I asked him what the rendering cost was... he measured it and said something like: 1954.
[11:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	He had other lindens rez first
[11:47]	Ari Jillybean:	thats nots bad
[11:47]	silverbackmale Looming:	.•:*¨☆¨*:•. OH MY GOD .•:*¨☆¨*:•.
[11:47]	silverbackmale Looming:	.•:*¨☆¨*:•. OH MY GOD .•:*¨☆¨*:•.
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	I've got a render cost somewhere down near 1
[11:47]	Kaluura Boa:	ROFL
[11:47]	silverbackmale Looming:	bet that was just the hair lol!
[11:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	Arawn Spitteler was last born in 1954
[11:47]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	YEs, Andrew's is 1.
[11:48]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	He speaks truth.
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	No, richard was an animated stick figure on a sheet of college ruled paper.
[11:48]	Arawn Spitteler:	It says something for his engineering elegance
[11:48]	silverbackmale Looming:	lol!
[11:48]	Patricie Sapphire:	the king and I look could use a better skin without saccrificing his 1 ARC
[11:48]	Simon Linden:	I thought your AV was the definition of a cost of 1
[11:48]	Johan Laurasia:	Well, a new skin wouldn't' raise your ARC
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	alright, well maybe I'll look around for one
[11:49]	silverbackmale Looming:	i have some copy bot skin if money is an issue lol!
[11:49]	Johan Laurasia:	maybe get you one with a beard :)
[11:49]	Patricie Sapphire:	Patricie Sapphire facepalms
[11:49]	Starfire Rhapsody:	Oi lol
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	and some white clothes with shadows to which I can add the purple tint
[11:49]	silverbackmale Looming:	he's is more like ko-jack
[11:50]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	A white tux, with purple tint >.>
[11:50]	Johan Laurasia:	heh, you're still gray to me
[11:50]	Patricie Sapphire:	sounds good, be on the cover of GQ in no time
[11:50]	Johan Laurasia:	50 minutes later
[11:50]	silverbackmale Looming:	i'll make ya a lolly
[11:51]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Anywho, someone asked me to ask you if physics are turned off for a prim if it isn't moving.
[11:51]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	prim/object
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	Sebastian, what do you mean by "physics"? The term is somewhat ambiguous
[11:51]	Arawn Spitteler:	I suppose a static object with no collisions wouldn't do a lot of physics
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	mostly because the word "physics" is used somewhat incorrectly in the SL user interface
[11:52]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I'm thinking he meant as in, a phsyics enabled object, not a static "nonphysical" object.
[11:52]	Johan Laurasia:	no, then physics is still being calculated
[11:52]	Arawn Spitteler:	I r3ecall it does, to some extent
[11:52]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	He didn't really explain whe he asked me to ask. I'm just passing along the question, but from context, I think that's what he meant.
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	static objects collide, but are not moved in the "integration step" -- where new velocities are extrapolated and new positions computed
[11:53]	Johan Laurasia:	and even a non moving physical object is in the integration step
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	well, static objects are somewhat "optimized" and cost the physics engine less than dynamic objects
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	however... they are not as optimized as they could be
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	Falcon Linden is currently working on adding some more optimizations for static objects
[11:54]	Liisa Runo:	as long as llSetStatus(STATUS_PHYSICS,n); toggles the staticness... we keep calling static object physical
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	er... actually he is already done with several of them, and they are now starting to go through QA
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	there are some physics engine optimizations that might get into server-1.40
[11:54]	Johan Laurasia:	woot
[11:54]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Now there's a magical number.
[11:55]	Jonathan Yap:	Falcon says when Havok 7 comes to the grid it will run much faster, but he wouldn't define "much"
[11:55]	Rex Cronon:	btw. could it be possible fro havok to ignore avatars/prims that r underground?
[11:55]	Rex Cronon:	for havok*
[11:55]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Would those optimizations include, toggling the flgith height limit?
[11:55]	Dedric Mauriac:	Dedric Mauriac looks up definition of much
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	well, the physics engine part of things will be faster...
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	but the phys engine isn't the biggest performance hurdle at the moment
[11:55]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	My typing is terrible this tuesday.
[11:55]	office hours	is almost over
[11:56]	Patricie Sapphire:	what is the biggest hurdle ?
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	but Falcon knew how to optimize it, so he went ahead and got that work done
[11:56]	Stev Spiegel:	spelling?
[11:56]	Liisa Runo:	maybe with new havok version we need more than one physical object to brign TD and FPS to 0.01
[11:56]	Johan Laurasia:	does he have it running under linux yet?
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	the biggest hurdle is the interest-list code that figures out what updates to send to your client -- object updates
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	there is a per-avatar cost that is too high
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	there are some other optimizations in the pipeline... not sure when they are coming out... there is a new HTTP texture download path that works much better, or so I hear
[11:57]	Patricie Sapphire:	I have noted that being bandied about on many blogs of late
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	it will reduce some CPU load on the simulator process
[11:57]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Personally I think things could really be improved if we could get rid of flight helpers. I don't know anyone that doesn't use one really.
[11:57]	Johan Laurasia:	that's badly needed
[11:57]	Jonathan Yap:	I have been using the HTTP texture option in Snowglobe and textures seem to load twice as fast
[11:57]	Johan Laurasia:	I do
[11:57]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I know there are some who don't use them, but most of those people are under a couple days old.
[11:58]	CPU Core:	yes they would help out a lot removing the need for scripts
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	if we could optimize the interest-list and get HTTP texture download path shipped then I bet we could at least double the max avatar density in a region
[11:58]	Patricie Sapphire:	0.0
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	ah good, HTTP texture download is working in SnowGlobe, that is good to hear.
[11:59]	Patricie Sapphire:	I think I may need to re visit snowglobe then
[11:59]	Kaluura Boa:	It works for the map for sure... Not sure about the rest
[12:00]	Johan Laurasia:	yes, the new map works great
[12:00]	Jonathan Yap:	Make sure you turn it on in Snowglobe, it's in the Advanced menu somewhere
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... I should find out the status of HTTP texture download. I'll ask around...
[12:00]	Patricie Sapphire:	ty
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Andrew Linden makes a note.
[12:00]	Kaluura Boa:	It's on...
[12:00]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Andrew, Simon, aside from making it optional in the client, what exactly -would- be necessary to remove the flight height limit?
[12:00]	Jonathan Yap:	And the test Snowglobe that just came out last week has some good fixes for deadlock conditions in the texture/rendering area
[12:00]	Thank you	for coming to Linden office hours
[12:01]	Rex Cronon:	how hard would it be for havok to ignore avatars/prims that are underground?
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	Sebastian, the avatar motion code would have to be changed...
[12:01]	Johan Laurasia:	it wouldn't make too much difference, alot of people use flight assists that are built inoto multi functional toools
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	the avatar motion code is due for an overhaul, however any changes there will break lots of content
[12:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	VolumeDetect goes underground routinely
[12:02]	ll lolly	giver: Hello, Avatar!
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	what I'd like to do is make a new avatar motion system, and make it optional
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	so you can decide whether you want to break all that content you own or not
[12:02]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I see, that makes sense. What kinds of content are we talking about here?
[12:02]	CPU Core:	i consider it broken anyway :)
[12:03]	silverbackmale Looming:	what did i miss lol!
[12:03]	Dedric Mauriac:	can you modify the collision event to detect where in the object an avatar is colliding? x/y/z as local positions from 0 to 1
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	well flight scripts of course, but also some other things such as attached vehicles, and some AO attachments probably
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	Uh oh, I've got to run -- I've got another meeting that starts now.
[12:04]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	thanks for coming everyone

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