User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 03 23

Transcript

[11:00]	GG Office	Hours HUD v1.5: 11:00 AM: Andrew Linden: Technical issues, SL architecture, physics engine http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/213/45/34 (Starts now)
[11:00]	Kaluura Boa:	OK... I think I have the time to start the coffee machine...
[11:00]	Kaluura Boa:	brb
[11:01]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Simon
[11:01]	Sean Schmid:	There is always time to start the coffee machine.
[11:01]	Simon Linden:	Hello
[11:01]	xstorm Radek:	hi Simon
[11:01]	Sean Schmid:	hi
[11:01]	xstorm Radek:	Simon it seems Jagga is having that old DNS log in problem
[11:02]	Jagga Meredith:	but only on beta2
[11:02]	Opensource Obscure:	hey everybody o/
[11:02]	Simon Linden:	I see that screen capture ... odd
[11:02]	Jagga Meredith:	works fine on release cacndidate
[11:02]	xstorm Radek:	did they import the old beta bug ???
[11:02]	Simon Linden:	So it works ok on some viewer versions, but not others?
[11:03]	Jagga Meredith:	yep
[11:03]	xstorm Radek:	2006 they had a lot of that problem
[11:03]	Simon Linden:	Well, I don't know anything about it, but probably the best thing is to file a jira. I"m assuming that's the latest 2.0 beta viewer, right?
[11:03]	Jagga Meredith:	yes. the jira folks aren't getting it
[11:03]	xstorm Radek:	hi Open
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	ugh, those are the worst bugs
[11:04]	xstorm Radek:	open do you remember the DNS Login error back in 2006 ?
[11:04]	Jagga Meredith:	meaning, thyey're not understanding the issue.
[11:04]	xstorm Radek:	did that not get fix ?
[11:04]	Jagga Meredith:	they keep closing the case
[11:06]	Eddi Decosta:	hello ㋡
[11:06]	xstorm Radek:	hi Eddi
[11:06]	Simon Linden:	It sounds like there's something specific to your DNS setup that triggers the error -- it's hard to look into that if it can't be reproduced
[11:06]	Simon Linden:	Hi Eddi
[11:06]	Jagga Meredith:	ok. xstorm had some suggestions
[11:06]	Eddi Decosta:	how are you? ㋡
[11:06]	Simon Linden:	I'm not going to be much help other than saying 'file a jira' since I'm not doing viewer work these days
[11:06]	xstorm Radek:	to restart the network is one
[11:07]	xstorm Radek:	other then that do a line test
[11:07]	Jagga Meredith:	everything else works
[11:07]	xstorm Radek:	unless your network was highjacked
[11:07]	Eddi Decosta:	well, i have started snow-587 , for my part ㋡
[11:07]	Adding Search	panel in tools "Content" tab.
[11:08]	Rex Cronon:	greetings everybody
[11:08]	Simon Linden:	You can also try a ping to https://login.agni.lindenlab.com/cgi-bin/login.cgi and see if that resolves or not
[11:08]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	Hi Rex
[11:08]	xstorm Radek:	greetings Rex
[11:08]	Jagga Meredith:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-18527
[11:08]	t log	in - DNS error
[11:08]	Rex Cronon:	hi mechizedek, xstorm
[11:08]	xstorm Radek:	hi Mech
[11:08]	Jagga Meredith:	pings fine
[11:09]	xstorm Radek:	oh befor i forget Simon it seems physics is broken yet again
[11:09]	Opensource Obscure	will be back soon
[11:09]	Simon Linden:	You might add a little more detail about what viewer version works correctly ... the exact viewer version would help and point out that something's different with 2.0
[11:09]	Jagga Meredith:	ok
[11:09]	Simon Linden:	what's broken?
[11:10]	xstorm Radek:	that
[11:10]	Eddi Decosta:	well, i dont use the beta 2 for now i wait for the next version, i hope the FPS drop are fixed for the next cause im very tired of this unstable viewer ..
[11:10]	xstorm Radek:	the is not right
[11:11]	Simon Linden:	Also show that ping is OK ... that'll emphasize that other things are working. The only other possibility I can think of is if you have a firewall and it's been set to block that viewer accidentally
[11:11]	Rex Cronon:	the ball toweer:)
[11:11]	Rex Cronon:	tower*
[11:11]	Eddi Decosta:	im on snow 1.4 lol
[11:11]	xstorm Radek:	they not only do not roll they did not fall right
[11:11]	Jagga Meredith:	that's what I've been wondering about. I'm using windows firewall for windows 7.
[11:11]	Eddi Decosta:	the ping, is great ㋡ 129, if i compart at 300 for the viewer 2.0 :)
[11:12]	Eddi Decosta:	compare*
[11:12]	xstorm Radek:	had to push them
[11:12]	Eddi Decosta:	loll 136 for now ㋡
[11:12]	xstorm Radek:	only way to make it work
[11:12]	Simon Linden:	So is that supposed to stack up?
[11:13]	xstorm Radek:	no
[11:13]	xstorm Radek:	physics say they are to roll and fall
[11:13]	xstorm Radek:	not stack
[11:13]	Jagga Meredith:	is physics turned on for those objects?
[11:14]	Eddi Decosta:	Simon, i need to ask you about the viewer 2.0 i send you a picture for now, and said me why i observ that on each startup?
[11:14]	xstorm Radek:	yes
[11:14]	xstorm Radek:	hi Daniel
[11:14]	Eddi Decosta:	look my ping sim
[11:14]	Jagga Meredith:	Eddi are you getting the DNS error?
[11:14]	Daniel Voyager:	hey
[11:14]	Eddi Decosta:	Jagga no ㋡
[11:14]	Simon Linden:	Eddi - I really can't help with the 2.0 issues, since I don't work on that project
[11:15]	Eddi Decosta:	aw :(
[11:15]	Simon Linden:	But I know people are looking at the jiras, so that's the best way to note bugs
[11:16]	Simon Linden:	I haven't heard about performance issues with it , nor noticed them myself (other than the usual lags which are from the simulator)
[11:16]	xstorm Radek:	it seems there are some old bugs popping up again and some from the server side
[11:16]	Identity Euler:	hi
[11:16]	Jagga Meredith:	I haven't been here for awhile. any word on email between objects? Last I heard it was still unusalbe
[11:16]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[11:16]	Eddi Decosta:	hi Identify ㋡
[11:17]	Simon Linden:	Did you notice these recently? We haven't rolled out a simulator since 3/4
[11:17]	Eddi Decosta:	Identity *
[11:17]	xstorm Radek:	i had to ask for 5 sims to be restarted do to stuck avatars
[11:17]	Eddi Decosta:	geez
[11:17]	Eddi Decosta:	i need a tea ㋡
[11:18]	Jagga Meredith:	haven't tried lately
[11:18]	xstorm Radek:	the numbers of stuck avatars are growing and every stuck avatar seems to fit the same pattern
[11:18]	Simon Linden:	We're at the point where simulator crashes are getting worse ... the rate drops to the lowest point right after a new deploy, then slowly rises day by day
[11:18]	Rex Cronon:	stuck avatars? what r they?
[11:19]	xstorm Radek:	it seems every avatar that gets stuck is doing a animation and is gray and the animation is looping
[11:19]	xstorm Radek:	plus the avatar is phantom
[11:20]	Simon Linden:	Avatars sometimes get stuck in a limbo state - not really logged in, but won't get logged off. It can block you from logging back in
[11:20]	xstorm Radek:	its as if the sim has some sort of memory and holding them there
[11:21]	xstorm Radek:	from the people i have talk to they have been stuff for days off line
[11:21]	Opensource Obscure:	simon, I have a question about Top Scripts, is that in topic?
[11:22]	Rex Cronon:	oh. i think i have seen one. and the only way for a stuck avatar to return to normal is for the lindens to reset the sim:(
[11:23]	Simon Linden:	There's a process I ran into when you log out ... the sim will be storing the attachments as you leave, and keeps the AV active until that's OK. I wonder if that's not working correctly
[11:23]	Simon Linden:	OO - sure, top scripts is a good topic
[11:23]	Liisa Runo:	sometimes ghost AV go poof when the real agent go to that sim, but sometimes the real one just cant go there
[11:23]	xstorm Radek:	yes i know and there are some sim that just can not be reset so it makes it harder for me to ask support to reset a place like info hubs or clubs that are full
[11:23]	Opensource Obscure:	i often see that a scripted object is at the top of the Top Scripts list showing a time value MUCH higher than all other objects. let's say 10sec when all other scripts are at 0.01-0.1sec. - as soon as I refresh the statistics, they're gone
[11:24]	Opensource Obscure:	sorry for my English. I meant various objects, not a specific one.
[11:24]	xstorm Radek:	no the person is stuck off line when a avatar is stuck
[11:24]	Opensource Obscure:	and they're often light scripts
[11:24]	Rex Cronon:	the problem seem to be that u can't push the stuck ave around, and i am not sure if u can return him/her home
[11:24]	Opensource Obscure:	so it seems strange they're really using 10x resources than other ones
[11:24]	xstorm Radek:	if a avatar was just a image then hes it gets removed
[11:24]	xstorm Radek:	such as slow log offs
[11:25]	Simon Linden:	Hmm, well, I can think of two possibilities ... first, the math for that timing might have a bug. Second, it may be that the script is doing one thing that suddenly takes up a lot of time, but doesn't do that very often. So it's a source of script load only for a brief moment
[11:25]	Opensource Obscure:	even stranger since they keep running, but they don't show anymore after a bit
[11:25]	Opensource Obscure:	i see
[11:25]	Opensource Obscure:	i see some basis for further testing
[11:25]	Jagga Meredith:	Simon, Last time I was here, a few months ago, you took requests for top 10 list of requests. Mine was better inter-object communication (ie. something better than email and http). Did that make the cut?
[11:25]	Opensource Obscure:	mmm.
[11:25]	Opensource Obscure:	ok thanks
[11:26]	xstorm Radek:	im starting to think there is a link to many of the problems every one is starting to have
[11:26]	Opensource Obscure:	anyone else see similar behaviour? please IM me in case
[11:27]	xstorm Radek:	im thinking there is a mathmatic error with the server software with timming
[11:27]	xstorm Radek:	timing
[11:27]	Simon Linden:	Jagga - there wasn't really a 'cut' for that, but we don't have new features there right in the pipeline
[11:27]	Jagga Meredith:	ok
[11:27]	Simon Linden:	Right now the main focus is on making changes that have more efficent scripts ... hopefully fewer ones that need inter-object communication
[11:28]	Jagga Meredith:	C##?
[11:28]	xstorm Radek:	but Simon if the server has a timing problem with mathmatic will it not make problems with scrips
[11:29]	Simon Linden:	Yes, we'd like to get C# as a usable language too
[11:29]	Simon Linden:	xstorm - you mean the top script time calculation?
[11:29]	xstorm Radek:	yes
[11:30]	Simon Linden:	yeah, there may be something there. Is this script doing anything that might suddenly take a long time?
[11:31]	xstorm Radek:	i have seen points like that yes
[11:31]	xstorm Radek:	its like freezing
[11:31]	ATechwolf Foxclaw:	I've only played wiht 2.0 on 1.38 for a short time. But is there a way to see totel scripts number/memorry/etc on other avatars? I'me sure estate managers would like to know who is lagging the sim.
[11:32]	Simon Linden:	The Top Scripts listing should show AVs and the attachment's numbers
[11:33]	xstorm Radek:	at first i was thinking people telleporting in was the problem but now it seems bigger and some simple teleport scripts are off and pose animations are driffting
[11:33]	ATechwolf Foxclaw:	What about group admins, i'me sure there are places with more then 10 admins and that is the limit for estate managers.
[11:34]	Simon Linden:	I don't know the details, but I _think_ we're going to expose this info to more people as the script resources project moves along
[11:34]	Simon Linden:	You're right that more people need to know the cost of everything
[11:34]	Jagga Meredith:	I'd like to know what my own scripts are doing.
[11:35]	Simon Linden:	I just saw that the white chairs here have scripts ... I wonder what those are for...
[11:35]	ATechwolf Foxclaw:	Righ now, I have an indrirct way to measure number of sctipts on avatars, but no way to tell if its just one killing the sim or not.
[11:35]	xstorm Radek:	what we need is a graph system to record problems with scrips
[11:35]	Ardy Lay:	Simon, animation
[11:35]	Simon Linden:	Jagga - right, it makes sense that you should know what your attachments are using, so you can weigh the value vs. cost
[11:35]	Jagga Meredith:	sit scripts?
[11:36]	Simon Linden:	Ardy - what do you mean by animation?
[11:36]	xstorm Radek:	simon can there not be in edit a way to test a script befor its put in a prim for errors and runtime errors ?
[11:36]	Simon Linden:	the cost?
[11:37]	Simon Linden:	xstorm - we've moved to compile scripts on the server, so for now they have to be attached to something in-world
[11:37]	Ardy Lay:	Simon, the chair asks for and gets animation permission when I sit here.
[11:37]	Liisa Runo:	Ardy means that the white chairs have script to trigger the sit anim in the chair
[11:39]	xstorm Radek:	hhhmmm i have seen that but was that not a trigger to ask for permition to animate a persons avatar ?
[11:39]	Simon Linden:	ah, right, so it has a simple animiation for lounging around. Guess it needs that to put your feet up in a good position
[11:39]	Jagga Meredith:	that code is a one-liner put in more as a courtesy than anything else. many developers don't use it
[11:40]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Object need to have a sit properity.
[11:40]	xstorm Radek:	lol simon best not mess up the sit settings i hate to see Ardy sent to -0,0,0
[11:41]
[11:41]	xstorm Radek:	/ reset glow to 0
[11:41]	xstorm Radek:	drats
[11:42]	xstorm Radek:	what happen to every one simon ?
[11:42]	xstorm Radek:	not many at the meeting
[11:42]	Simon Linden:	I was just looking into them ... each one has 2 scripts for the pose ball and sitting
[11:42]	Simon Linden:	yeah, they must have heard Andrew's not here this week :)
[11:42]	Techwolf Lupindo:	VWRAP event just ended.
[11:43]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[11:43]	Rex Cronon:	there is this ietf meeting in rl
[11:43]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	A lot of folks are at the IETF meeting still X
[11:43]	xstorm Radek:	im lucky to move in RL
[11:44]	Rex Cronon:	?
[11:44]	Simon Linden:	Let's see ... I don't have any annoucements. For news, the 1.38 work in moving along
[11:44]	Liisa Runo:	❤
[11:44]	xstorm Radek:	my joints are frozen on my right side
[11:44]	Simon Linden:	There's a sim crasher I may look at this afternoon
[11:44]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I filed a couple bugs with aditi yesterday.
[11:44]	Simon Linden:	Nothing new, but apparently getting publicized so it may need a fix soon
[11:45]	Simon Linden:	I've been working on the TP and region crossings, and just sent that code for testing
[11:45]	Jagga Meredith:	what's new for 1.38?
[11:45]	Simon Linden:	It does make the simulator smoother for everyone, but I'm worried about it making region crossings worse for the people doing the region cross
[11:45]	Simon Linden:	Hopefully this will get into 1.40
[11:45]	Simon Linden:	I'm not sure what's in 1.38, actually
[11:45]	Eddi Decosta:	hehe, i wait the 1.40 ㋡
[11:46]	Liisa Runo:	this panel show some stuff about 1.38
[11:46]	xstorm Radek:	Simon if a sim is having bad lag do to some problem with the server the sim is on will not a teleport have problems any way ?
[11:46]	Simon Linden:	Right, the LSL changes are probably the most interesting change in 1.38
[11:47]	Simon Linden:	xstorm - yes, that's true. The issue I'm hitting is that there's a certain amount of work to do on the crossing, and I can move it around, but that seems to make some things better while other parts worse
[11:48]	Simon Linden:	For example, right now it essentially stops, processes everything for an incoming avatar, and then resumes. The result is a big lag when someone crosses or TPs into a region
[11:48]	Simon Linden:	I moved a bunch of that procesing into another thread. Now other people do not get as bad lag
[11:49]	Simon Linden:	However, the person crossing into the region gets there a little slower (sometimes) than before
[11:49]	Simon Linden:	So they see a bigger lag / slingshot when crossing regions, which is bad
[11:49]	Techwolf Lupindo:	How does that affect viecials/sitting avatars?
[11:50]	Jagga Meredith:	got it, thanks
[11:50]	Simon Linden:	I'm trying to get real numbers on that kind of thing now ... it's not good just doing a 'does it feel better or worse test'
[11:50]	xstorm Radek:	hold on then if you have a large number of items like xstreet inventory box , metalife box and hippo venders added up with teleports and AO animations then you may see why avatars some times get stuck
[11:51]	Jagga Meredith:	I'm noticing people putting up sim boundary warnings. the new code will make this an excellent idea.
[11:51]	Simon Linden:	yeah, there's a lot of data -- I was surprised when I saw how much gets moved between regions when you cross
[11:51]	Simon Linden:	Easily can be megabytes
[11:52]	Techwolf Lupindo:	The itf presentaion said something along the line of 3MBs chucks.
[11:52]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	I got a "can't equip items because they previously caused problems in this region" message earlier when entering a sim - any idea what could've caused this ? (the items in question are the ones I'm wearing right now)
[11:53]	Simon Linden:	That message shows up when we see a 'toxic object' - something that caused a rezzing problem earlier, for example
[11:53]	xstorm Radek:	so im back to asking for a wat to turn off a avatars animations and any other running scripts at teleport and logoff to help cut down on avatars getting stuck
[11:53]	xstorm Radek:	way
[11:53]	Simon Linden:	It's a temporary ban on something that the simulator has problems with
[11:53]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I've meet another creater that has the same bug as I showed you a couple weeks ago. She is PO due to having to recreate the work due to it turning no-mod-no-copy/no-trans
[11:54]	Jagga Meredith:	I save all my code off-world
[11:54]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	Strange, there's not really anything fancy about the stuff I wear
[11:54]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	Just some texture animation scripts and that's about it
[11:54]	xstorm Radek:	is there any way Simon to turn off a avatars scripts befor they telleport or logoff ?
[11:55]	Jagga Meredith:	perhaps a HUD that senses all the other huds, then sends them a lmMessage to kill themselves
[11:55]	Simon Linden:	xstorm - yes, but that would take some work to figure out exactly what the problem is and if that would really help it or not
[11:56]	Simon Linden:	are you thinking about something added to your scripts, or something the simulator does under the hood?
[11:56]	xstorm Radek:	well it may be a good temp fix to a problem till we find out on the beta server
[11:57]	Simon Linden:	Turning scripts off sounds scary to me ... it seems like it might break a lot of expected behavior trying to turn them back on correctly
[11:57]	Liisa Runo:	yea, spooky, no duct tape fixes to server if possible
[11:58]	xstorm Radek:	ok lets look at say a stuck avatar in a loop animation and the sim has them stuck so they can not log back in for 3 days or more
[11:59]	xstorm Radek:	will not some thing that stops the script from doing a animation call at logoff not help ?
[11:59]	Kaluura Boa:	No need for a looped animation to get stuck
[11:59]	Liisa Runo:	i was once so ghosted that i was not even able to log in, support ticked fixed it in 2hours
[11:59]	Simon Linden:	Currently I think the support folks will restart a region when they get reports of stuck AVs
[11:59]	Liisa Runo:	ticket*
[11:59]	xstorm Radek:	yes but not sims with a large number of people in it
[11:59]	Jagga Meredith:	yeah, right in the middle of a save
[11:59]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Need to have a watchdog thread to force logout clients that are no longer have an active connections.
[12:00]	Simon Linden:	Animations _usually_ don't cause server-side problems ... they really are done mostly on the viewer. The sim just sends around updates like "AV so-and-so is now doing this anmiation"
[12:00]	Ardy Lay:	There is something like that but it doesn't cover all cases. Duration is 5 minutes.
[12:00]	Welcome to	Linden office hours
[12:00]	Liisa Runo:	lol, meeter is bit off
[12:00]	Simon Linden:	ah, I forgot to fix that for daylight savings time :)
[12:00]	Jagga Meredith:	ow
[12:00]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Yea, bonus hour.
[12:00]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[12:01]	xstorm Radek:	what ?
[12:01]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	Hi all?
[12:01]	Simon Linden:	I have to run ... have another meeting lined up
[12:01]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Why isn't GMT/UTC used instead?
[12:01]	Jagga Meredith:	thanks Simon
[12:01]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[12:01]	xstorm Radek:	gave a good day Simon
[12:01]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon
[12:01]	xstorm Radek:	:-)
[12:01]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	Bye all
[12:02]	Rex Cronon:	tc mechizedek
[12:02]	Meeter is	Running
[12:02]	Kaluura Boa:	Poof!
[12:02]	Simon Linden:	Thanks all for coming ... see you next time
[12:02]	Simon Linden:	Bye

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