User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 04 13

Transcript

[11:00]	Welcome to	Linden office hours
[11:00]	Uni Ninetails:	doesnt like me :(
[11:00]	Jagga Meredith:	4051-7523029
[11:00]	Gwen Carillon:	rezzing
[11:00]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	Hi Uni, Daniel, Techwolf, Daisyblue, Sebastean, Krull, Jagga, Gwen, Opensource, Tillie, Cerdita, Kaluura, Liisa, Ardy, and Bronson, Uni and anyone I missed!.
[11:00]	Gwen Carillon:	yay
[11:00]	Ardy Lay:	Hi
[11:00]	Gwen Carillon:	Hi :))
[11:00]	Cerdita Piek:	Hello Simon :)
[11:00]	Uni Ninetails:	lol cool hi twice :D
[11:00]	Simon Linden:	Hello
[11:00]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[11:01]	Uni Ninetails:	hey simaon
[11:01]	Uni Ninetails:	er Simon
[11:01]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	Hi Simon
[11:01]	Daisyblue Hefferman:	Hi Gramma
[11:01]	Liisa Runo:	if (brain == sleepy) { llSay(0,"brb"); MakeCoffee(STRONG); }
[11:01]	Krull Quar:	hehe
[11:01]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	hard to type so many names!
[11:01]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Hmm..can't get a copy
[11:01]	Gwen Carillon:	Hi Daniel ㋡
[11:01]	Krull Quar:	Let me send you one
[11:01]	Uni Ninetails:	Same its flagged as copy but wont
[11:01]	Daniel Voyager:	hey Gwen :)
[11:01]	Simon Linden:	I think Rex had an auto-greeter the other day, used llSensor to get all the naems
[11:02]	Jagga Meredith:	ty Krull
[11:02]	Krull Quar:	Buy one for $0L
[11:02]	Rex Cronon:	hi simon
[11:02]	Krull Quar:	I set it to purchase free
[11:02]	Uni Ninetails:	yay tyty
[11:02]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	Thanks Krull.
[11:02]	Krull Quar:	most welcome ㋡
[11:02]	Techwolf Lupindo	smiles
[11:02]	Rex Cronon:	there r clients that have a built-in greeting function
[11:02]	Krull Quar:	Show the devs some love ㋡
[11:03]	Uni Ninetails:	now if i could find a V2 derivaive with temp uploads :D
[11:03]	xstorm Radek:	hi Simon
[11:03]	Techwolf Lupindo:	If that what I think it is, it may get used for customer support form.
[11:03]	xstorm Radek:	hi every one :-)
[11:03]	Cerdita Piek:	Hello Andrew :)
[11:03]	Rex Cronon:	hi xstorm
[11:03]	Krull Quar:	It is it send you an email ㋡
[11:03]	Gwen Carillon:	Hi xstorm ㋡
[11:03]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	Hiya Andrew.
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	Hello
[11:03]	Gwen Carillon:	Hi Andrew
[11:04]	xstorm Radek:	well physics has crashed Oatmeal 11 , 10
[11:04]	Rex Cronon:	i used it today also, simon
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	Ah, good that you're keeping Falcon busy
[11:04]	xstorm Radek:	i still trying to find out what we all did on Aditi to have crashed them 2 sims
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	I was talking to Falcon this morning.
[11:05]	xstorm Radek:	it seem 4 of us was running 4 physics tests
[11:05]	Uni Ninetails:	had a bad time on a certain aditi sim yesterday... log in CRASH login CRASH... went on like that for 10 attempts.
[11:05]	xstorm Radek:	it was nasty
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	Looks like he's mostly done fixing crash bugs. There are a few things that still crash it but it is better than Havok4.
[11:06]	xstorm Radek:	yes much better
[11:06]	Jagga Meredith:	you changed engines?!?!???
[11:06]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Hey there folks - I'm a bit afk today, sorry for whoever I missed.
[11:06]	Krull Quar:	Please feel free to grab a media link for viewer 2.0 its set for sale for $0L
[11:06]	Tillie Ariantho:	Much better means?
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	We are currently working on changing from Havok4 to Havok7.
[11:06]	Jagga Meredith:	kewl!
[11:06]	Simon Linden:	Some also probably aren't directly physics related ... we have had other crashers with the 'rez too much stuff' code
[11:06]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Gray goo fence?
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	yes, I recently fixed a crash bug for that in an emergency server-1.36
[11:07]	xstorm Radek:	i do know it had taken 2000 physics prims from one person and 11,000 from another and 991 rez prims from me to crash Oatmeal 10
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	I think my crash fix will also go into server-1.38 or maybe 1.38.1
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not sure how our #deploy team handles such last minute crash fixes when the next server is already prepared
[11:08]	Liisa Runo:	btw, does a red light lit up in some place when a region crashes?
[11:08]	xstorm Radek:	there still a rezzer problem do to timming and network timing i think
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	No Sebastean I didn't modify the Grey Goo Fence for the fix. Just slightly smarter rez code.
[11:09]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Oh, I was talking about Simon's "rez too much stuff code."
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	Liisa, yes there is sort of a red light that can be seen if someone is watching the tool.
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	However, with 30k+ regions there is always a red light somewhere.
[11:09]	Simon Linden:	The 'grey goo fence' is only one part of the code that tries to keep the sim alive ... a lot of the problems are basically too much stuff coming into the world too fast, and the sim has to know when to quit trying
[11:10]	Techwolf Lupindo:	It would not surprize me if some of those are being crashed on porpus to fix lag issues.
[11:10]	Liisa Runo:	ok, cause it is kinda strange that sometimes even 50 abuse reports and a sim that is crashing over and over again takes 6 hours for LL to react
[11:10]	xstorm Radek:	it seem one of us on Oatmeal did rezz 11,000 prims a bit to fast and physics was starting to go bad but what trigger it seems to be when some people teleport in to the sim
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	Liisa, a region that is crashing over and over? Do you have an example region that has done that recently?
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... xstorm, I wonder if my fix would solve that crash mode where people login during extreme load. It might.
[11:12]	xstorm Radek:	i think it may
[11:12]	Liisa Runo:	Sandbox Cordova did that one night, when someone had self replication stuff in it, first 2 hours people sent abuse reports, next 6 hours the sim kept crashing
[11:13]	xstorm Radek:	on every test when a person teleports in the load was to much for havok 7 at times
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	Oh. We don't police the sandbox regions too much. They suffer a lot of load and stress.
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	The sandbox regions are also supposed to clean themselves up.
[11:14]	Jagga Meredith:	but isn't that hourly? that wouldn't handle a fast-relicating script
[11:14]	Tillie Ariantho:	I guess we wont see something like Havok Cloth in SL (client sided)? ;)
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not surprised that the main response team didn't respond to that one very fast.
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	Tillie, I think cloth dynamics will eventually make it into SL. Falcon wants to get it done.
[11:15]	Simon Linden:	I wonder if that TP arrival load was really Havok 7 or scripts ... new AVs don't add much to Havok, as they are just one more shape in the simulation. A lot of scripts, however, can create a big stall
[11:15]	xstorm Radek:	:-S sorry but i was at Cordova last week looking at a load test script hope it was not me
[11:15]	Liisa Runo:	autoreturn dont work to self replicating stuff, and some griefers have figured out that after SL midnight, only zero to 1 gTeam people are online
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	However I would guess that it is a ways away... at least a year, probably two.
[11:15]	Jagga Meredith:	people arriving with huds?
[11:15]	Chaley May:	you need to be able to have sandboxes return things if the owner is away for at least an hour and not at all while they are there
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	Lessee... what I've been working on recently...
[11:16]	xstorm Radek:	i do hope there will be away to have huds and animations turn off on people when they teleport in to a sim then have it all restarted
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	I've got a branch of old bug fixes that has failed QA testing
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	so I'm trying to get it fixed and back into the queue
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	I think I'm almost done with that
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	We had a little emegency with voice being disabled in some mainland regions this weekend.
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	I got called on Sunday to help fix the problem, but we werent' able to to come up with an elegant fix.
[11:18]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	ahh Hah!
[11:18]	Tillie Ariantho:	Yah, seen it, blog said issue is fixed. Sims said: voice is disabled. Nice fix. :P
[11:18]	xstorm Radek:	lol yes i lost voice when i was talking to my self lol
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	So I'll probably be working soon to make that problem fixable in an easier way.
[11:19]	Chaley May:	dont rudh yourself with that one.. i hate voice :)
[11:19]	Jagga Meredith:	OK, that probably explains a ticket I've goto pen
[11:19]	xstorm Radek:	when will SLVoice get updated to 64 bit ?
[11:19]	Chaley May:	*rush
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	That's what I'm up to. Server-1.40 hasn't branched yet. The #deploy team is focused on server-1.38 still.
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	xstorm, I don't know much about our plans for voice.
[11:20]	Tillie Ariantho:	xstorm: same time the client will? ^^
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	When you say 64-bit... are you asking about when it will run on a 64-bit OS? or are you talking about an enhanced voice quality?
[11:20]	xstorm Radek:	lol Tillie you know they can do the client faster for the 64bit OS systems
[11:20]	Simon Linden:	Wow, I hope we're not going to use 64 bit audio samples :)
[11:21]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[11:21]	Tillie Ariantho:	xstorm: do I? I want that 64bit client NOW. :P
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	I asked one of the viewer devs about a 64-bit viewer, wondering when it would show up.
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	He really didn't know, or wasn't optimistic that it would ever happen.
[11:22]	Tillie Ariantho:	And he said: We are working on 128but, skipping the 64? ;D
[11:22]	Tillie Ariantho:	bit
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	I think what is going to happen there is that the demand/pressure will build until one of the LL devs just makes it happen.
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	I'll ask around some more to see what some of the other people think.
[11:22]	Chaley May:	would a 64bit viewer mean better accuracy when building with prims?
[11:23]	Techwolf Lupindo:	hehehe, SEnce XP is till the most used OS, years before a winblows 64-bit version comes out. Linux allready had 64-bit builds for years.
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	No Chaley, no better accuracy for building prims.
[11:23]	Tillie Ariantho:	No, but more memory possible. :)
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	The benefit might be more efficient code operation -- faster FPS basically.
[11:23]	Tillie Ariantho:	The client can eat up even more. :)
[11:23]	xstorm Radek:	if another Viewer is made for 64bit os then a lot of bugs can be drop and a better group of programs put in place and may even cut down on the server load
[11:23]	Tillie Ariantho:	Might be a requirement for performing shadows, no? :)
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	BTW, I mentioned last week that I've made the transition to viewer 2.0 on linux
[11:24]	Tillie Ariantho	hugs her hobbes.
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	then at the end of the hour I crashed out trying to save the chat transcripts
[11:24]	xstorm Radek:	? chat system crashed or viewer ?
[11:25]	Tillie Ariantho:	My client logs all chat automagically, your's does not?
[11:25]	Chaley May:	i dont think i would ever bother reading a transcript.. do many people actually use them?
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	No, my viewer just crashed at the end of the hour
[11:25]	Opensource Obscure:	chaley: yes
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	while I was trying to save the trancripts
[11:26]	Tillie Ariantho:	oop
[11:26]	Opensource Obscure:	no sorry - don't know if 'many' - but some for sure : )
[11:26]	Gwen Carillon:	inopportune
[11:26]	Rex Cronon:	yes people do read transcripts
[11:26]	xstorm Radek:	may be you did try to open a open file ?
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	Well, I've been saving the transcripts but haven't been publishing them. Ardy Lay sometimes publishes them for me.
[11:27]	Rex Cronon:	thanks
[11:27]	Krull Quar:	㋡
[11:27]	xstorm Radek:	you can not open a file that another program is using
[11:27]	Opensource Obscure:	transcripts are not nice to read but useful content can be found with search engines - so .. that's good too.
[11:27]	Opensource Obscure:	not clear. sorry. nevermind
[11:28]	Chaley May:	yes i search my name on google and see me on mostly transcripts from SL :)
[11:29]	Simon Linden:	FWIW I think there's another pilot roll tomorrow - 1.31
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	1.38 you mean?
[11:30]	office hours	is half over
[11:30]	Simon Linden:	err, yeah, let's call that a typo and not brain failure
[11:30]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[11:30]	xstorm Radek:	in my case its the brain
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	For old times sake: SVC-22 and SVC-93
[11:31]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[11:31]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[11:31]	Simon Linden:	Unfortunately I think the mono 'fixes' were rolled back ... Kelly made a big comment on what's going on in one of the jiras, I think
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	Really? I'm curious about that.
[11:32]	Simon Linden:	We really need to update to more recent mono libraries before we can fix the script loading slowdown
[11:32]	Simon Linden:	Let's see if I can find the link...
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	If anyone knows the relevant jira numbers let us know.
[11:32]	Simon Linden:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895
[11:33]	Rezzing Mono	scripted object cripples sim FPS
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	Oh... those fixes were rolled back. Bummer.
[11:33]	xstorm Radek:	ok this is not a bug http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22 the server software is made to do that
[11:33]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	No, SVC-22 is a bug. The region should be smarter at the boundary.
[11:34]	xstorm Radek:	unless the items is put on like you do shoes then it will not get in to a sim that has no free prims
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	Well, I suppose the good news is that our MONO team will be working on nothing but getting a more recent version of MONO installed.
[11:35]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	(back again)
[11:35]	Gwen Carillon:	㋡
[11:35]	xstorm Radek:	and i do set some setting to stop cars and UFOs from getting in to a persons home lol
[11:35]	xstorm Radek:	wb Sebastean
[11:36]	Uni Ninetails:	like volocity interpolate to give up faster and snap back to crossing if the handovers takes to long.
[11:36]	Liisa Runo:	autoreturn is the only true solution, no-entry and things like that get ignored by vehicles
[11:36]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Thanks X
[11:37]	Rex Cronon:	wb
[11:37]	xstorm Radek:	i did find a way to get No-Entry to work
[11:37]	Simon Linden:	I've been bugging the viewer folks about that interpolation code, and I learned that a few people are going to work on it. Hopefully it will be better in viewer 2.2 .. I don't think it will make 2.1
[11:38]	Uni Ninetails:	that would be great Simon, its suck atm.
[11:38]	Uni Ninetails:	i turn it off now lol...
[11:38]	Simon Linden:	I was surprised to find how simplistic it is ... if someone wants a quick project for the Snowglobe viewer, that would be a great one
[11:38]	Liisa Runo:	and i have 4 ways to beat the no-entry, people just need to learn that autoreturn is the only way to prevent their land getting full of crap and sqatters
[11:39]	xstorm Radek:	some people found a way to beat Autoreturn
[11:40]	Liisa Runo:	naturally, biut not many random vehicle/house do that
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	How doe they beat autoreturn?
[11:40]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Simon, speaking of snowglobe, do you know if there's been any progress on getting llTextBox into the viewer code? Just an informational inquiry, since you seem to be involved there.
[11:40]	xstorm Radek:	they link a item to a mega and push it in to a persons home
[11:40]	Rex Cronon:	self-replication?
[11:41]	Liisa Runo:	several methods to beat autoreturn (dont say the other method out loud in here plz)
[11:41]	Chaley May:	link and delinking used to evade autoreturn
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	Oh, using prim encrochment.
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	I need to fix that...
[11:41]	Uni Ninetails:	fix so we can have megas :D
[11:41]	xstorm Radek:	yes please do
[11:41]	Simon Linden:	I'm not really involved there, but I don't know about llTextBox, sorry
[11:41]	Gwen Carillon:	wow ...I wasn't aware of that ...thanks
[11:41]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	No worries :)
[11:42]	Liisa Runo:	megas have nothing to do with encoachment, can poke normal prims to other parcels too
[11:42]	Uni Ninetails:	yes but fixing encroachment means we ca have larger prims without arsing about.
[11:42]	xstorm Radek:	yep
[11:42]	xstorm Radek:	im with Uni on this
[11:43]	xstorm Radek:	it needs to be fix
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	yes
[11:43]	Liisa Runo:	sure, will be cool to get encoachment fixed, but using it as and excuse to delay megas is not very cool
[11:43]	Liisa Runo:	as an*
[11:44]	xstorm Radek:	you fix it and then megas can be used
[11:44]	Krull Quar:	Are megas hard on the servers?
[11:44]	Uni Ninetails:	90% of the tim im using 10m-30m size prims.
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	Liisa is saying that megas should be liberated before the prim encroachment solution.
[11:44]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Liisa: I can understand delaying megas because of it. If they officially support megas before it's fixed, people will blame LL for "supporting" encroachment.
[11:44]	Chaley May:	those who want to abuse megas have them.. those who dont want to abuse megas dont use them because they are not always sure if they are approved :)
[11:44]	Uni Ninetails:	wheres me 65535 mega *wears
[11:44]	xstorm Radek:	the mega is not hard on a server the texture on the mega is lol
[11:45]	Krull Quar:	Ahh yes that makes sense ㋡
[11:45]	Krull Quar:	Better to use seamless textures with a repeat
[11:45]	Krull Quar:	Smaller ones as a pattern
[11:45]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	While I believe that mega encroachment could be handled the same now as then, it still makes sense for them to wait until it's fixed and they can't be "blamed" for "enabling" people to encroach with no official recourse.
[11:45]	Slee Mayo:	sandboxes will be trashed once anyone can make a mega
[11:46]	xstorm Radek:	small textures on a mega loads faster
[11:46]	Liisa Runo:	people who blame LL about supporting encoachment can also blame LL about supporting encoachment done with normal prims, there will always be stupid people who fail to click the AR button
[11:46]	Krull Quar:	Yes for sure
[11:46]	Uni Ninetails:	thing is how will encroachment affect off sim landscape features
[11:46]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	sandboxes are prone to that no matter what is done I think.
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... good point... mega in andboxen will be a problem
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	er... megas in sandboxen
[11:46]	Uni Ninetails:	Coffee shakes? :)
[11:47]	Rex Cronon:	megas r already in sandboxes and they r not that much of a problem?
[11:47]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Slee: making megas at this point isn't really a hassle. If you want to prevent newbies from using them right off the bat, you could make it an "advanced" option.
[11:47]	xstorm Radek:	what about a button to have for stopping prims over 10 x 10 x 10 ?
[11:47]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	"Disable 10m Prim Scale Limit"
[11:47]	Krull Quar:	Hmm good suggestion XStorm
[11:47]	Uni Ninetails:	goes in advanced menu its not supported.
[11:47]	Slee Mayo:	linden sandboxes
[11:47]	xstorm Radek:	this way the sim owner can set the limits ?
[11:48]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Uni, as I understand it, they aren't "officially supported" now, yes? ;)
[11:48]	Uni Ninetails:	well yeah
[11:48]	Akito Tsuki:	megas need a mega sandbox, so having a big sandbox would help ^^
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not sure what to do about megaprims in a sandbox.
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	I'm inclined to let it go and see how bad the problem really is.
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	There will be plenty of legit exploration with megaprims there.
[11:48]	Slee Mayo:	give the sandbox natives permission to perform public caning of offenders
[11:48]	Uni Ninetails:	what was the max limit being discussed internally?
[11:48]	Liisa Runo:	and im not saying that mega's should be release before fixing encoachment, just saying that it should not be used as an exeude to delay it, we can encoach with normal prims, and we already have mega's. allowing megas is 2 minute work, fixing prim encoachment might take longer
[11:49]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Andrew: I think a lot of the "junk" megaprims in sandboxes come from people rezzing them to see what sizes they are, or to try the size, and then not cleaning up after themselves.
[11:49]	Uni Ninetails:	Liisa its been an excuse for what feels like a year now.
[11:49]	Simon Linden:	I hate to start a firestorm, but there probably will be some size limit on megas too ... we haven't figured out what the numbers might be
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	one year? Two or three I think.
[11:49]	xstorm Radek:	and if you can make it so a move out side the boarders of a sim i think that be a great start
[11:49]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I guess, the way I see it, allowing people to make the sizes they need would actually have a tendency to reduce clutter rather than increase it.
[11:49]	xstorm Radek:	mega
[11:50]	Uni Ninetails:	Adnrew before that i thought it was havok?
[11:50]	Gwen Carillon:	limit?
[11:50]	Krull Quar:	Largest I've ever needed to use was 60x60x60
[11:50]	Timeless Prototype:	hi all
[11:50]	Gwen Carillon:	Hi Timeless ㋡
[11:50]	Timeless Prototype:	㋡
[11:50]	Uni Ninetails:	Ive heat 64m^3 beeing thrown around thats a good limit perhaps.
[11:50]	Uni Ninetails:	*heard
[11:50]	Rex Cronon:	as long as max size of mega is 256x256x256, things shouldn't be that bad
[11:50]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[11:50]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I've used prims that are quite large, usually for scenery.
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	I used to say that the physics engine was one excuse to prevent megaprims. I've had to change my stance on that one.
[11:51]	xstorm Radek:	60 x 60 was more then i ever needed unless i was doing a building plans for a sim
[11:51]	Simon Linden:	60m sounds reasonable ... 256 definitely gets into the region encroachment problem
[11:51]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Later all. Need to get to anther meeting early and see what new BS LL has for us devolopers. Sadly, I wish it was not BS at times.
[11:51]	Uni Ninetails:	Brown bag huh
[11:51]	Gwen Carillon:	most of my builds involve larger megas
[11:51]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	has used 150x150x.250 for gorund on skyboxes lots of times. =x
[11:51]	Uni Ninetails:	yeah im in the 30m mark for my largest
[11:51]	Slee Mayo:	he sounds disgruntled
[11:52]	Rex Cronon:	as lisa said, encroachment has nothing to do with megas. as it can be done with regular prims
[11:52]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	There was one build a friend of mine did, a space station on our sim. I think the largest mega in that build is 130-140 in diameter.
[11:52]	xstorm Radek:	any way to stop a mega from going in to other sims of other sim owners ?
[11:52]	Chaley May:	i dont see letting people be able to build with megaprims will cause mroe encroachment than not being able to... If people intend to encroach with megas they would be allready
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	yes xstorm, solve prim encroachment.
[11:52]	Liisa Runo:	my land is big, so i have used 256meter prims sometimes, and also i use <0.5,0.5,DEBUG_CHANNEL> prim for frigging big laser
[11:52]	Uni Ninetails:	block the region borders bet you break off sim stuff
[11:53]	Akito Tsuki:	"cut" them at x metres behind the borderline
[11:53]	Uni Ninetails:	like waves and reefs etc
[11:53]	Chaley May:	but encroachment can happen on these megaprims because they cant actually scale them to a size they need so they think oh well this is good enough
[11:53]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Uni: I'm pretty sure the plan is just to enable land owners to return encroaching prims if they choose, and to have it affect auto-returns.
[11:53]	Uni Ninetails:	thatd be fine
[11:53]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Chaley: my point exactly, earlier.
[11:54]	Chaley May:	sorry i missed it :)
[11:54]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Though since that second loophole, that isn't quite so much of a problem as it was.
[11:54]	Slee Mayo:	but if the center of the mega isn't on your land, how can you return it?
[11:54]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Slee: that's what they're aiming to fix.
[11:54]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	That's "solving the encroachment problem"
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	That is the proposed prim encroachment solution Slee. Do a object-vs-parcel collision check to see if the parcel owner can return it.
[11:55]	Uni Ninetails:	if % of bounding box is over line allow return or whatever
[11:55]	office hours	is almost over
[11:55]	Slee Mayo:	.0005%
[11:55]	Uni Ninetails:	hehe
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, the exact detail of how far enchroachment can happen, if any, is yet to be figured out.
[11:56]	Rex Cronon:	can u return a linked set that is over your land but has its center somewhere else?
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	But that isnt' the hard part.
[11:56]	Slee Mayo:	if the server could do the math...have it look at the mega size and it's vector...iof it exceeds the sim border, return it
[11:56]	Opensource Obscure:	gotta go . thanks Andrew and Simon ! bye everybody
[11:56]	Simon Linden:	Bye
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	See you later.
[11:56]	Rex Cronon:	tc
[11:56]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Slee: I think Uni's concern is sculpts and such which can often have larger bounding boxes than the object itself, and hence be visually confusing.
[11:56]	Uni Ninetails:	tc
[11:56]	Uni Ninetails:	there is that ywah
[11:56]	xstorm Radek:	i have seen a person rez out a mega that has cover 8 sims
[11:56]	Chaley May:	i wouldnt mind if every person was given a max scale of prim they are allowed to build with... of course newbies only get 10x10x10
[11:56]	Uni Ninetails:	yeah
[11:56]	Uni Ninetails:	only 8?
[11:56]	Liisa Runo:	no you cant Rex, that is why mega and non mega makes no difference
[11:56]	Chaley May:	but those of us who have been well behaved for years should get megaprims
[11:57]	xstorm Radek:	yes 8 sims
[11:57]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	I saw on eof those just 2 weeks ago Xstorm
[11:57]	Gwen Carillon:	question: what is the relationship between rez height and megas? they seem to fight alignment at a certain height
[11:57]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Chaley: perhaps making the largest prim size a region-settable limit?
[11:57]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I don't know if that's possible.
[11:57]	Slee Mayo:	there's a 65km mega
[11:57]	Slee Mayo:	called 'infinity'
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	Gwen, that is a viewer issue, probably.
[11:57]	Timeless Prototype:	I think I was late to the meeting, did we discuss the potential for a phantom child prim (eg. a single sculpted shell of a space ship that you can still walk inside)?
[11:57]	Chaley May:	actually region setting the size limit is a good diea
[11:57]	Slee Mayo:	usually checkerboarded
[11:57]	Tillie Ariantho:	Bleh, notecards dont open... "Unable to load notecard. Please try again."
[11:57]	Gwen Carillon:	ah
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	The viewer doesn't handle megaprims very well either.
[11:57]	Simon Linden:	Hmm, that sounds like it would get confusing where some stuff would work only in some regions
[11:57]	xstorm Radek:	its a pain to have to try and AR a mega that big
[11:58]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Simon: you're right, that was just off the top of my head. I didn't think too deep on that one.
[11:58]	Uni Ninetails:	the viewer handles them fine.the UI doesnt. :D
[11:58]	Slee Mayo:	well, i now know that AR'n in public sandboxes is a waste
[11:58]	Gwen Carillon:	thanks
[11:58]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	we had to call concerige to even get the danged thing removed.
[11:58]	xstorm Radek:	tell the sandbox officers
[11:58]	Simon Linden:	I wonder about different rules based on land ownership or permissions ... might get too complicated, but would be nice to allow owners or members to have some more ability
[11:58]	Slee Mayo:	public sandboxes, xstorm
[11:59]	Slee Mayo:	linden owned
[11:59]	xstorm Radek:	but you can AR a mega in a publicsandbox
[11:59]	Chaley May:	well if all sims had sufficiently large enough prims allowed to build most things then there is no issues.. of course i know jack doesnt want to be policing mainland with megaprims while islands would be willing to make sure that there isnt encroachment at all
[11:59]	Chaley May:	islands need megaprims and they dont have encroachment issues
[11:59]	Slee Mayo:	the mega will eventaully timeout beofre a linden shows up
[12:00]	Thank you	for coming to Linden office hours
[12:00]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Well, I think the encroachment issues are more localized to parcels in a region, in addition to region-region encroachment.
[12:00]	xstorm Radek:	your very welcome Meeter
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... if you could autoreturn prim encroachment few really big megaprims would last longer than about 120 seconds.
[12:00]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Thank you for having the office hours, Andrew and Simon
[12:01]	Gwen Carillon:	ty for the info ㋡
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks for coming everyone.
[12:01]	Uni Ninetails:	tyty
[12:01]	Gwen Carillon:	I'm off *waves*
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	I've got much work to do, so I'll be heading out.
[12:01]	Chaley May:	bye
[12:01]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew
[12:01]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	thanks for holding the office hours Andrew and Simon.
[12:01]	xstorm Radek:	thank you Simon and Andrew
[12:01]	Simon Linden:	Thanks all for coming ... see you next time
[12:01]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Take care all!
[12:01]	Uni Ninetails:	wonder if risking the brown bags worth it
[12:01]	Uni Ninetails:	tc!
[12:01]	Slee Mayo:	as i'm not a landowner nor do i put $ into LL, i can't really complain, i live in the public sandboxes
[12:01]	Rex Cronon:	tc sebastean
[12:01]	Simon Linden:	Bye
[12:01]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon
[12:02]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	bye everyone. =) See you all later

Generated with SLog Wikifier