User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 04 30

Transcript

[16:02]	Simon Linden:	Hello
[16:03]	Rex Cronon:	hello simon
[16:03]	Patty1 Rosca:	hi simon
[16:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	My MoaP has sound, but no video
[16:03]	DogWomble Dollinger:	hey simon
[16:03]	Patty1 Rosca:	hello rex
[16:03]	Rex Cronon:	hi patty1
[16:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Simon, Rex
[16:03]	Rex Cronon:	hi morgaine
[16:03]	Ashiri Sands:	hi all
[16:03]	reddot99 Republic:	ah, using the shared media texture feature, arawn?
[16:03]	Rex Cronon:	hi ashiri
[16:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Ash
[16:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	Trying, but see Plywood.
[16:04]	Simon Linden:	Andrew says he can't make it today, he is tracking down some voice issue
[16:04]	Ashiri Sands:	still look like plywood to me
[16:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	I hear the audio.
[16:04]	Patty1 Rosca:	i had that voice issue yesterday
[16:04]	Simon Linden:	The only news is that he did get his main code merged so it will be in server 1.40
[16:04]	Rex Cronon:	i was wondering what was with the big plywood thing:)
[16:04]	reddot99 Republic:	what main code?
[16:05]	reddot99 Republic:	or what for, rather
[16:05]	Arawn Spitteler:	If you aren't on SL2, it should look like Plywood. I'm on SL2, and it still looks like Plywood.
[16:05]	Erinyse Planer:	i apologize for my appearance if it offends anyone. i jsut came from a contst
[16:05]	Simon Linden:	I think that's branching next week sometime, and Aditi (the beta grid) will be updated soon after
[16:06]	reddot99 Republic:	whats new in that one?
[16:07]	Simon Linden:	I forget the details ... it's pretty much the fixes Andrew has been talking about. It's not really new code, but has finally made its way past QA and will get released
[16:07]	Erinyse Planer:	only took what 3 months?
[16:07]	Erinyse Planer	growls at qa
[16:07]	reddot99 Republic:	is a fix for the mono thing that got pulled back before in there?
[16:07]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	What's not new code? *missed soemthing*
[16:08]	Arawn Spitteler:	Andrew is on line
[16:08]	Simon Linden:	The other excitement was the big outage earlier this week. That really killed a lot of the system
[16:08]	Simon Linden:	Yeah, he's probably working on that voice issue
[16:08]	reddot99 Republic:	still wondering what caused that
[16:09]	Arawn Spitteler:	Squirrel wanted Coffee
[16:09]	Simon Linden:	I don't know the details either, but it took a major server farm out and it required a long time to put all the parts back together
[16:09]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Power failure, but what about the UPS and genertors?
[16:10]	Simon Linden:	yeah, the facilities should all have backup systems, but something sure didn't work right
[16:10]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Thats what you get for outsourceing.
[16:10]	Erinyse Planer:	talking about the othernights failures?
[16:10]	DogWomble Dollinger:	well, if it's a case of master circuit breaker kicking in, then backup power systems may not have helped much anyways
[16:10]	Simon Linden:	Let's see ... I've recently been working on the baked texture system, which seems to be flaky these days
[16:10]	Morgaine Dinova:	But why were logins down altogether? With one datacenter out, that still leaves two. There were no logins at all for N hours
[16:11]	reddot99 Republic:	probably damage control
[16:11]	Erinyse Planer:	thats cuase the backup systems didnt kick in right morgaine... and why im a little suspicious of it
[16:11]	Simon Linden:	I don't know the details, except it affected enough of the system to bring it all down, or make is safer to disable logins as it was being repaired
[16:12]	xstorm Radek:	im back
[16:12]	Erinyse Planer:	they didnt disable logins till two hours into it
[16:12]	Rex Cronon:	wb
[16:12]	Erinyse Planer:	logins were simply down till then
[16:12]	Morgaine Dinova:	login.agni.lindenlab.com. 0 IN A 216.82.16.40
[16:12]	Morgaine Dinova:	Agni has only one entry in DNS
[16:12]	reddot99 Republic:	that could have been what went down
[16:13]	Morgaine Dinova:	Was that on the site that went down?
[16:13]	xstorm Radek:	Simon i found a number of errors on the Agni server that is not on the Aditi server
[16:13]	Simon Linden:	I was glad to be working in other areas and not having to run around trying to solve it :)
[16:13]	Morgaine Dinova:	It's infrastructure, should know how it works or you can't diagnose stuff
[16:13]	Simon Linden:	what kind of errors, xstorm?
[16:13]	xstorm Radek:	and after test a number of time i found others with the same errors
[16:13]	Erinyse Planer:	timing of that crash couldnt be worse. i was buying soemthing direct from the owner of nomine, we crashed, and i havent seen her since
[16:14]	xstorm Radek:	i will show you a screen shot
[16:14]	Arawn Spitteler	thinks everybody knows what they aren't familiar with.
[16:14]	reddot99 Republic:	i think thats which's job, simon's is mostly code, at least according to office hours
[16:15]	xstorm Radek:	there are 2 things wrong with this error
[16:16]	Ardy Lay:	I heard it was a hungry cat: http://www.tycheshepherd.com/images/crash.png
[16:17]	Simon Linden:	Hmm, probably best to file a jira for that, xstorm. I know there's some work going on for search functionality but I"m not involved with it
[16:17]	xstorm Radek:	First saying that the Viewer 2 is a third party viewer , and for it to say third party viewer in the first place and next its saying Token Missing
[16:17]	xstorm Radek:	a jira has been filed
[16:17]	xstorm Radek:	but this is working fine on aditi
[16:17]	Simon Linden:	Great, thanks. Yeah, putting terms like 'token' into error messages isn't very friendly
[16:18]	Simon Linden:	Hopefully that means it's something that has been fixed :)
[16:18]	xstorm Radek:	if a new person sees it tells them that viewer 2 is not permited that will turn off people
[16:19]	Erinyse Planer:	as if viewer 2.0 doesnt already turn off people?
[16:19]	xstorm Radek:	so some one needs to remove the wording third-party viewer
[16:19]	Arawn Spitteler:	Someone had to download Viewer 2, today, because Emerald was rejected, but nobody seems to believe that can happen.
[16:20]	reddot99 Republic:	it was probably the version they were using was rejected,
[16:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	Erynes, Viewer Two is though to offer a better experience, for those who don't know better.
[16:20]	Simon Linden:	xstorm - agreed, that note is wording that could be confusing
[16:20]	xstorm Radek:	plus there is a physics rotation drift yet again on agni but not on aditi
[16:21]	Erinyse Planer:	arawn, granted ive been back a short time, but I've already wound up sending several new people to the old snowglobe viwer cause they couldnt figure 2.0 out
[16:21]	xstorm Radek:	it seems the bug pop up after the power problem
[16:21]	Morgaine Dinova:	Who is making the decisions on which viewers to reject? It's not as if you have techies to spare.
[16:22]	reddot99 Republic:	legal is, i bet,
[16:22]	Arawn Spitteler:	Sounds Relevant. Is it simply easier to figure Snowglobe out, or easier to give directions?
[16:22]	Simon Linden:	Hmm, we're running 1.38.1.203464 here and 1.38.3.203695 on Aditi (just checked Dore), so hopefully some of those things are fixed
[16:22]	Morgaine Dinova:	Legal doesn't have the technical competence to reject viewers
[16:22]	Erinyse Planer:	legal doesnt have competance period.
[16:23]	reddot99 Republic:	that doesnt stop most legal departments,
[16:23]	Arawn Spitteler	wonders if Law School will ever teach Logic again.
[16:23]	xstorm Radek:	ok i hope we get the server ver thats on aditi on agni soon there are odd error popping up more and more
[16:24]	Erinyse Planer:	Legal still has one of my avatars tied up becuase i listed in the profile im in law enforcement. I even mailed them a photocopy of my work id. they wrote back saying that wasn't proof enough
[16:24]	Simon Linden:	I thought the main grid was more up-to-date than this, but must have gotten confused about the rollout schedule
[16:24]	Morgaine Dinova:	I guess you don't need any competence in logic to fill out a lawsuit form, which is all that seems to matter these days.
[16:24]	reddot99 Republic:	and whats going to be happening with snowglobe, if development ceased internally on older clients?
[16:25]	Morgaine Dinova:	Snowglobe's OK, we've got Merov to champion it.
[16:25]	Simon Linden:	I don't know much about Snowglobe ... the little I've heard was that it was going to shift to a 2.0-based version, but that's it
[16:25]	Erinyse Planer:	anyways to answer arawns earleier question: ive found it easier to explain people where things are on the 1.0 snowglobe then 2.0 AND people tell me its more logical and intuitive a viewer as well
[16:25]	Simon Linden:	Right, I think Merov is the main guy there
[16:25]	reddot99 Republic:	... was hoping it'd keep the older ui,
[16:26]	Morgaine Dinova:	No, that's wrong. Snowglobe is retaining both 1.x and 2.x versions in parallel, at least as long as V2 has its current dreadful UI
[16:26]	Erinyse Planer:	simon right now snowglobe has both versions going. but alot of people are currantly using the older ui
[16:27]	Erinyse Planer:	whoever made the decision to force 2.0 on people is imo to put it rather nicely a complete idiot
[16:27]	Simon Linden:	I suspect we're not going to solve the 'viewer question' here :)
[16:27]	reddot99 Republic:	i still think the old ui is better since it take up less of the window with toolbars and teh like,
[16:27]	Ashiri Sands:	very unlikely
[16:28]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Q said that there were going to be changes in 2.0.1 to make it more useable by power users - we'll see how that pans out.
[16:28]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	(paraphrased)
[16:28]	Erinyse Planer:	older ui also takes up less memory. I could run 4-6 copies on my desktop and only can run a single 2.0 wihtout running out of memory
[16:28]	Morgaine Dinova:	Simon: you're right. :-) But you can probably imagine that the residents are curious how come such a dreadful design managed to get imposed on them
[16:28]	Simon Linden:	We've seen interesting results when polling about the new viewer ... rather than a typical bell-shaped curve of responses, we get two groups with radically different views. People either love it or hate it
[16:29]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I've brought about 3 people to the new viewer, who were brand new to SL. And i've met one other who just started.
[16:29]	Ashiri Sands:	some of us mod the xml files to the point the UI is quite different
[16:29]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	All of them thought the interface was awkward, strange, and bad.
[16:29]	DogWomble Dollinger:	yeah, i've noticed that in the SL Answers as well simon .... people either love it or love to hate it
[16:29]	Erinyse Planer:	thats the same with the new people ive run into sebastean
[16:29]	Morgaine Dinova:	87% of Lindens own survey poll indicated that they didn't like 2.0
[16:30]	xstorm Radek:	its not the viewer but the UI thats the problem for many people
[16:30]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I currently don't like 2.0; I think if more flexiblity is added as Q said, I'll be content with it.
[16:30]	DogWomble Dollinger:	You're my...
[16:30]	DogWomble Dollinger:	honeybunch
[16:30]	DogWomble Dollinger:	sugarplum
[16:30]	DogWomble Dollinger:	pump-i-umpy-umpkin
[16:30]	DogWomble Dollinger:	You're my sweety-pie!
[16:30]	DogWomble Dollinger:	You're my...
[16:30]	DogWomble Dollinger:	cuppy-cake
[16:30]	DogWomble Dollinger:	gumdrop
[16:30]	DogWomble Dollinger:	shnuckem schnuckem sure
[16:30]	Erinyse Planer:	a quote from one of the residents "who the f*** designed this interfface? I can't find anything, and feel like I need a manual"
[16:30]	DogWomble Dollinger:	the apple of my eye! =) <3<3<3
[16:30]	DogWomble Dollinger:	aah crap sorry
[16:30]	Ashiri Sands	giggles.
[16:31]	Arawn Spitteler	wishes Ian Fleming Books could be rendered more faithfully.
[16:31]	DogWomble Dollinger:	dropped something on my kb and it seems to have set off a few thigns
[16:31]	xstorm Radek:	so what we need is a custom UI menu with layouts
[16:31]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	You probably have gestures hotkeyed.
[16:31]	Morgaine Dinova:	DogWomble: that'll be a quarter in the penalty jar ;-)
[16:31]	DogWomble Dollinger:	yeah, probably ... i'll have to hunt through them all at some point
[16:31]	reddot99 Republic:	other questions, whats h7 looking like at the moment?
[16:31]	Erinyse Planer:	direct quote better then paraphrase
[16:31]	Simon Linden:	I do like the flexibliity that's going in ... it's really impossible to make a one-size-fits-all viewer, so if we can make it easier to really customize it (beyond skins) it's much better
[16:32]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Well, I'd say the customizeability needs to be more accessible than skins.
[16:32]	Arawn Spitteler	wonders at Reddot's strange and perverse desire to ask an on topic question
[16:32]	Simon Linden:	I haven't heard any news about H7 this week
[16:32]	Erinyse Planer:	how about for a start adding an option to 2.0 to use a modified 1.0 ui?
[16:32]	Rex Cronon:	could u make viewr skins to be object inour inventories so that we can trade theM:)
[16:33]	xstorm Radek:	let people pick the look and feel and have a number style so help desk will know how the viewer is setup
[16:33]	Ashiri Sands:	I like that idea, Rex
[16:33]	Erinyse Planer	shouts: good idea rex
[16:33]	Erinyse Planer:	uug
[16:33]	Erinyse Planer:	i dont have control key held why does it still shout?
[16:33]	Ardy Lay:	http://8020studio.com/
[16:33]	Simon Linden:	yeah, skins are really only useful if they are easy to transfer and install
[16:33]	Rex Cronon:	i guess we will have to wait a few more years for that to happen:(
[16:34]	Morgaine Dinova:	Why does the viewer even have a fixed UI? There are thousands of apps these days with fully skinned UIs.
[16:34]	Psi Merlin:	Flexability is the key - unfortunatly we've been told "We tried the feature that way and we know best" too often with V2.
[16:34]	Simon Linden:	I doubt there'd be enough traction to make them a new inventory item, however. That's a lot of work
[16:34]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	And a lot of space.
[16:34]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Think of what the size of the asset would be.
[16:34]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	And how you'd apply it.
[16:34]	reddot99 Republic:	still need to fix some of the current inventory item types
[16:35]	Erinyse Planer:	simon could you suggest that 2.0 at the very least be given the option of using the old ui? that would i think radically help make more users willing to use it
[16:35]	Arawn Spitteler:	We should be able to hot-key teleports, with changes of groups, outfits and gestures.
[16:35]	Ashiri Sands:	until then, we'll just have to share links to the zipped files
[16:35]	xstorm Radek:	plus why has the tools edit texture not have a size grid to set size scale on prims ?
[16:35]	Simon Linden:	Change clothes on the way to the next meeting?
[16:35]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Having llTextBox implemented would make me more comfortable using it X)
[16:35]	Xugu Madison:	(Sorry all, I have to go sleep. Night, and have fun!)
[16:36]	Rex Cronon:	tc xugu
[16:36]	Erinyse Planer:	yes simon that owuld be nice. then i wouldnt come here so rediculously dressed
[16:36]	Erinyse Planer:	tc xugo
[16:36]	Arawn Spitteler:	You might be teleporting from Church to Gor, and they don't like Furries on Gor
[16:36]	Ashiri Sands:	bye Xugu
[16:36]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Simon, do you know anything about physics features we can look forward to?
[16:36]	Morgaine Dinova:	Simon: looks likeyou have 33 login servers behind agni's load balancer. One would assume that those are spread over the 3 data centers, so some of them would have worked, and load balancers automatically remove dead links from the connection graph.
[16:36]	reddot99 Republic:	yeah, leaving textboxs just dangling over our heads is just a little bit cruel
[16:37]	Simon Linden:	yeah, lltextbox needs to be sorted out for user
[16:37]	Simon Linden:	err, sure
[16:37]	Ardy Lay:	I assume the outage crippled LLNet
[16:37]	Erinyse Planer	shouts: I suspect the outage was also deliberate.
[16:37]	xstorm Radek:	i bet Ardy is right
[16:37]	Erinyse Planer:	god why does it keep shouting
[16:38]	reddot99 Republic:	sabotage? you mean? by who? some vengeful spouse?
[16:38]	Ashiri Sands:	I used to keep whispering when I used Emerald =^_~=
[16:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	Recent hire decided to quit with a vengeance?
[16:39]	Erinyse Planer:	some vengeful data center employee more my suspician though i wouldnt rue out an exiting ll employee
[16:39]	Ashiri Sands:	or something to do with removed sims ?
[16:39]	Simon Linden:	Actually there are few employees that really know where the servers are ... I've never actually visited one of the collocations
[16:39]	reddot99 Republic:	a while back, there was a power failure in town because somebody drove into a transformer substation,
[16:39]	xstorm Radek:	i have seen errors do to a bad removed sim data left over
[16:40]	Ardy Lay:	I have seen a valve regulated CO battery demolish 3 rooms and 2 brick walls.
[16:40]	Ardy Lay:	I kinda prefer wet cells after that.
[16:40]	Arawn Spitteler:	Carbon Monoxide Batteries?
[16:41]	xstorm Radek:	OMG!!
[16:41]	Erinyse Planer:	uh simon you know they wouldnt need to be physically there right?
[16:41]	Ardy Lay:	CO == Central Office
[16:41]	xstorm Radek:	ok thats scares me Ardy lol
[16:42]	reddot99 Republic:	could have been something like that that simply fried part of the control system before something could cut the circut breakers on the building
[16:42]	Erinyse Planer:	allot of places circut breakers are also tied into a control computer that can cut the power
[16:42]	Arawn Spitteler:	Lightning strike?
[16:43]	DogWomble Dollinger:	somebody sticking a fork in a power point?
[16:43]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well here's an easy question for you Simon, probably more up your street. If there were a will, how hard would it be to add this extra little bit of data to what sims send everyone about agents? http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-19009
[16:43]	Add viewer	channel identification to visible tags
[16:43]	Add viewer	channel identification to visible tags
[16:43]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	ERin, are you sure the shouting wasn't deliberate? ;)
[16:43]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	> <
[16:43]	Sebastean Steamweaver	detaches his left hip.
[16:43]	Simon Linden:	Yeah, I don't know why the facilities didn't protect themselves better, but the opeations folks are definitely looking into it. It was surprising how widespread and damaging it was
[16:44]	Erinyse Planer	smacks seb "im sure its done that repeatedly on 2.0 and not on the 1.23 viewer. and it does it both on lappy and on desktop
[16:44]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Simon, what do you expect when you take the lowest bidder for outsourceing a datacenter.
[16:44]	Rex Cronon:	sabotage?
[16:44]	Erinyse Planer:	outsourcing data centers is stupid period.
[16:45]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Hehe, no worries Erin. Like someone else mentioned, Emerald has made me whisper a lot when I've used it. No harm or offense meant in my comment ;)
[16:45]	Erinyse Planer:	you cant control access or security at all
[16:45]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Come to think of it I've shouted too, heh.
[16:45]	Simon Linden:	That's an interesting feature, Morgaine. Seems like a decent idea to me, but I'm not really familiar with a lot of details on viewer issues like that
[16:45]	reddot99 Republic:	yeah, makes you worry about what could happen if it was one of those interoceanic cable centers, then you have much bigger issues to deal with,
[16:45]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh I meant sim-side
[16:45]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yeah, I know you're not a viewer person
[16:46]	Morgaine Dinova:	Should be one extra UDP packet type
[16:46]	DogWomble Dollinger:	but seeign as we're touching on outage issues ... question someone may be able to answer ... with server maintenance happenign at the same time, is that affected at all?
[16:47]	reddot99 Republic:	i dont think that'd work without a veiwer update as well, morgaine,
[16:47]	Morgaine Dinova:	reddot99 -- sure, but the question to Simon was only about Sim-side.
[16:47]	Morgaine Dinova:	The viewer side we can handle
[16:48]	Simon Linden:	DogWomble ... I don't think there was anything happening at that time ... the outage started in the early morning, I think
[16:48]	Simon Linden:	THere was a minor update that was delayed and finally pushed out last night
[16:48]	Morgaine Dinova:	Most of the work's altready done in the viewer anyway --- that's how most of the TPVs display viewer tags
[16:48]	DogWomble Dollinger:	ok :) yeah!! i think there were some questions posed in a few places wondeirng if that was going to be dragged out, so thought I'd ask :)
[16:49]	Simon Linden:	But if we ever get an outage (or anything else going wrong) during an update, the update is typically blamed as the source and we're like to roll back to the original code quickly
[16:49]	Erinyse Planer:	was early mroning for eastern, was like 9 or 10 for pacific
[16:49]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I had logged in to work (or tried ) around 2 AM.
[16:49]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	But, unfortunately it wasn't working at the time.
[16:49]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I fell asleep waiting for the issue to get resolved, myself.
[16:50]	xstorm Radek:	Greetings :-) Jimmy Namir
[16:50]	xstorm Radek:	and welcome to second life
[16:50]	reddot99 Republic:	anything on the easy to implement list going into 1.40?
[16:50]	Simon Linden:	I think it affected a bunch of the inventory database servers, which is one reason why it took so long to bring back
[16:50]	xstorm Radek:	if you wish to join us that is fine
[16:51]	xstorm Radek:	do not worry Jimmy this is a open meeting
[16:51]	Erinyse Planer:	yeah it did. hence why munchflower owes me 3k worth of stuff when she gets on next *cries8
[16:51]	DogWomble Dollinger:	i can understand that simon :)
[16:51]	Simon Linden:	reddot ... sorry, I don't have the list. There are a bunch of Andrew's fixes going in
[16:51]	Simon Linden:	I have some region-crossing code in there as well ... should reduce lag a bit when others are entering your region
[16:51]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	One of my alts got inventory returned to him from his first few months of SL. I didn't even realize lemmings still existed :P
[16:52]	Erinyse Planer:	yay simon THANK YOU
[16:52]	Arawn Spitteler	hurriedly makes ritual mention of SVC-22, SVC-93 and Sheep
[16:52]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[16:52]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[16:52]	Ashiri Sands:	exploding lemmings?
[16:52]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Yes Ashiri, he got them when they were still new.
[16:52]	DogWomble Dollinger:	lag at sim boundaries being reduced is a good thing :)
[16:52]	xstorm Radek:	:-)
[16:52]	reddot99 Republic:	of finally, the boundries getting fixed up some?
[16:52]	Simon Linden:	If you could make a lemmings farming program, you might get rich :)
[16:52]	Ashiri Sands:	I still have my lemmings
[16:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	Feed them or they explode?
[16:53]	Erinyse Planer:	lol i dont have lemming turtles or bunneys. people keep trying to give em to me though lol
[16:53]	Ashiri Sands:	touch them, they explode
[16:53]	Simon Linden:	The region crossing code is a small step ... it's better for those inside the region, and about the same for those crossing or doing a TP
[16:53]	Ashiri Sands:	oh, yes, turtles and bunnies... the new chickens
[16:53]	Morgaine Dinova:	Need to reduce lag on the sims to compensate for the increased lag in Viewer2. Dunno how a laggier viewer was meant to be newbie friendly.
[16:53]	reddot99 Republic:	the inside the region is one of the bigger issues
[16:53]	Erinyse Planer:	trust me simon, that will make a lot of rp sims happy
[16:54]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Morgaine: I still wonder at their having the parcel limits icons turned off by default - what could be more confusing for a noob, than to have something work on one parcel, and have it suddenly stop, or to find that they can't build when they were able to build elsewhere.
[16:54]	Erinyse Planer:	morgaine, i'm convinced someone high up at ll wants to see SL fail. *nods* otherwise some of these mandates wouldnt be handed down
[16:55]	Erinyse Planer:	where do you go to turn those back on in 2.0 anyways?
[16:55]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Right-click the address bar
[16:55]	Morgaine Dinova:	I wouldn't go that far. But it's clear that some kind of politics overrode both commonsense and engineering assessment.
[16:56]	Simon Linden:	I don't think anyone wants it to fail, but there's probably a lot of different ideas on what it would mean to succeed ... i.e, doubt that we could be 2x or 3x the current size without some radical change
[16:56]	Ashiri Sands:	ah!
[16:56]	Erinyse Planer:	okay so why isnt that in prefernces somewhere too?
[16:56]	reddot99 Republic:	quick question, for where a full region and a void sim are next to each other in an island setup, would it be possible for the full region server pick up some of the slack from the void?
[16:56]	Rex Cronon:	thanks xstorm. lol. lemmings
[16:56]	Erinyse Planer	sighs
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	;-)
[16:57]	Morgaine Dinova:	Simon: I don't think your 1 in a 100 retention rate has ANYTHING to do with the viewer. Zilch. :-)
[16:57]	Simon Linden:	But there's been a good trend ... the first stuff the new crop of execs (M and such) went after was the viewer and web site. Those are going to continue to change, but I also think they're more realization that in-world performance, content, etc is really important
[16:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	Different Sims wouldn't knw much, about each other.
[16:57]	Erinyse Planer:	someone needs to realize ease of use and inherant lag are important too
[16:57]	xstorm Radek:	Simon you like lemmings ?
[16:57]	reddot99 Republic:	yes, but sims on the same estate should be allowed to share computing resources
[16:57]	Simon Linden:	So I'm more optomistic about the direction we're going and what we're working on now than I was a year ago
[16:58]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Yes Simon, that's extremely important, and I'm glad to hear that's being realized.
[16:58]	Simon Linden:	xstorm -- they're OK, just taste like chikens
[16:58]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[16:58]	Erinyse Planer:	ha ha
[16:58]	Arawn Spitteler	regards Chicken, as one of a million things that taste like Chicken
[16:59]	Erinyse Planer:	no chicken doesnt taste like chicken anymore. it taste like growth hormone
[16:59]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yep. High responsiveness would have massively more appeal than UI change. Among my local group, every single person apart from me has left SL, and they're unanimous why: (i) Nothing to do, and (ii) Disastrously laggy.
[16:59]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	In-world content needs improvement, and more versatility. I like to say, people don't just like to look at things, they like to -do- things;
[17:00]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	If you give content creators the ability to make their content more appealing, and do more interactively, people will be more likely to stay. And by interactive, I don't just mean MoaP.
[17:00]	Erinyse Planer:	if sim ownership and rents werent so outrageously expensive it would help too
[17:00]	Simon Linden:	Yep, I'd agree to that. I think it's better to have a push-model here ... have great stuff to show off, and people spread the word, rather than trying to force more people down the pipeline
[17:00]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Exactly Simon
[17:01]	DogWomble Dollinger:	well, from my own experience, i might have been able to get a few more people into SL if SL could just shake the perception in some people's minds that it's just "IRC with graphics"
[17:01]	reddot99 Republic:	i'm not sure, i'm fairly happy with sl being small,
[17:01]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Not that SL is a game, necessarily, but MMOs get most of their subscribers the same way: word of mouth; players getting other people to play. The "You've got to come see this!" factor.
[17:01]	Simon Linden:	Just an informal poll, but how many people would like something like temporary regions? i.e, your land might only be up and running for a fraction of the day/week/month
[17:01]	xstorm Radek:	Simon my wife and me pay for a full sim
[17:01]	Simon Linden:	I've always thougth that would be a way to encourage building
[17:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	IRC-VG?ll Is SL something more?
[17:01]	Erinyse Planer:	thats probably why the most acitve palces in sl are based on mmo's ie: roleplay sims and shooters
[17:02]	DogWomble Dollinger:	Simon, that might be useful for projects that only need to run for a small period of time, or for people who need space to test stuff
[17:02]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Erinyse, may I send you a landmark? There's one place you might like to see.
[17:02]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Morgain will attest to Gardon of Dreams, hehe.
[17:02]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Garden*
[17:02]	Erinyse Planer:	been there, but send it anyways
[17:02]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yes Seb, that's totally gorgeous
[17:02]	Erinyse Planer:	i dont have the lm on this avi
[17:03]	Simon Linden:	I have to run ... thanks eveyone for coming
[17:03]	Erinyse Planer:	tc simon. ty
[17:03]	Erinyse Planer:	and good seeing you
[17:03]	xstorm Radek:	Trendone is a great sim on the mainland and its a full sim but support says island owners own a sim and we mainland owners do not get seen and do not count the same as a island owner how do you feel about that simon ?
[17:03]	Ashiri Sands:	tc & Thank You Simon
[17:03]	Cerdita Piek:	Thanks, Simon. Take care :)
[17:03]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Thanks Simon :)
[17:03]	DogWomble Dollinger:	thank you Simon :) and tell the guys that brought the grid back up we all owe them a virtual beer :)
[17:03]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon
[17:04]	xstorm Radek:	thank you Simon
[17:04]	xstorm Radek:	have a great day
[17:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	The "SL is not a game" issue actually masks a problem. Games are fun. Talking to people, on the whole, is not. If you want higher retention rates, you need to add some FUN, of some kind. Something absorbing and engrossing.
[17:04]	Ashiri Sands:	I quite like what I've seen of Trendone
[17:04]	Rex Cronon:	come on people. is NOT a game. it is a TOY:)
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	Bye everyone ... see you next time
[17:05]	Morgaine Dinova:	See you Simon, have a good weekend :-)
[17:05]	Morgaine Dinova:	What do you mean by "toy", Rex?
[17:05]	Ashiri Sands:	ah, back to sculpting =^_^=
[17:05]	Cerdita Piek:	I have to go too. Take care :)
[17:05]	Morgaine Dinova:	Chau, Cerdita :-)
[17:05]	Rex Cronon:	u ever had legos as a child?

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