User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 06 22

Transcript

[11:00]	Welcome to	Linden office hours
[11:01]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	Hi Qie, Latif, Ardy, Imaze, Rex, Ovaltine, Areal Andrew!
[11:01]	Ardy Lay:	Hello
[11:01]	Latif Khalifa:	hello :)
[11:01]	Rex Cronon:	hi gramma
[11:02]	Imaze Rhiano	curses and wonders when she stops doing scripting work for her friends...
[11:02]	Qie Niangao:	Hi Gramma... Andrew... everybody
[11:02]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	Happy 7th birthday to you all! =)
[11:02]	s greeter	says: Hello Ovaltine, Kaine, Imaze, Latif, Liisa, Andrew, Kitto, Areal, Ardy, Gramma, and Qie.
[11:02]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	Hi Kitto
[11:02]	Kitto Flora:	Hello
[11:02]	Rex Cronon:	same 2 u gramma:)
[11:03]	Qie Niangao	starts to feel that "seven year itch"... but has a powder for it.
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	Ah yes, SL has been public for 7 years. Wasn't it June 24th or something?
[11:03]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Seven years without bathing does that to me too
[11:03]	Latif Khalifa:	Andrew, you've been with LL even before that?
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah. I joined really early.
[11:04]	Imaze Rhiano:	how many founder Lindens left?
[11:04]	Liisa Runo:	the early days when LL was just stoned group of school kids
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	I'm the only founder left. Technically the company had 4 employees when we incorporated.
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	Philip, Andrew, Cory, and Tessa.
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	We also had a contractor or two who did not want to be hired full-time.
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	Well, Philip is still around as chairman of the board.
[11:06]	Latif Khalifa:	must've been quite a ride! :)
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	And if you count him, then you might also count the former chair of the board: Mitch Kapor, who is still on the board.
[11:07]	Imaze Rhiano:	when have you changed your avatar last time? :)
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	Although, i think the BOD was not formed until after incorporation.
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	I haven't changed my avatar in years.
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	I tried a different shirt a few months ago -- one texture for the purple and white, however I got ruthed and went back to the multiple texture setup.
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	Anyone here a clothing designer?
[11:09]	Opensource Obscure:	what about an abstract avatar?
[11:09]	Imaze Rhiano:	I made my catsuit, boots and collar - but that is
[11:09]	Opensource Obscure:	( not that i design abstract avatars )
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	I've got some advice... you know how the visible part of the texture is limited...
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	you could draw the shirt just where it is visible and leave the rest transparent.
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	If you do that you get bad rendering when the textures are at low level of detail.
[11:10]	Liisa Runo:	im wannabe cloth person, but not skilled, but i would be happy to buy you one super sexy frog costume
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	So it is better to bleed the color out into the non-visible portions.
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	No, I'm not looking for a new look.
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	Ok news....
[11:10]	Kaine Lowenstark:	lol Buy andrew new clothes Day
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	I'm currently working on fixing a bug in a new server-1.40 feature...
[11:10]	Latif Khalifa:	great tip Andrew
[11:10]	Imaze Rhiano:	or hat for Andrews?
[11:11]	Rex Cronon:	i think there might be a few designers that would kill to design clothes for a linden. they would do it for free too, as is a gread advertising oportunity:)
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	the "PASS_NEVER" option for touch and collision features...
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	SVC-3306
[11:11]	Add enumeration	to llPassCollisions() to provide ALWAYS_PASS, PASS_IF_NOT_HANDLED, and NEVER_PASS as explicit options
[11:11]	Latif Khalifa:	those pass events seem to be nothing but trouble
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	that one is busted, and has broken some content in 1.40
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	so I'm fixing it right now
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, the feature is a bit messed up. The setting isn't really a per-prim setting... it is a per-script setting.
[11:12]	Imaze Rhiano:	that is why 1.4 was rolled back?
[11:12]	Kitto Flora:	touch is broken in 1.38. Seems to be client issue
[11:12]	Qie Niangao:	llPassCollisions (and -Touches) has always seemed extraordinarily non-intuitive to me.
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	However, it is more of a combination of all the prim settings... passing events from one script overrides the setting of other scripts
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	since scripts that have no event handlers pass by default
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, touch is busted from the client? How's that?
[11:15]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew: Sit on a moving steam train and you cant click on the whistle. It seems like the whistle prim becomes invisible. In 1.40 I've even had a click on the whistle get applied to an object in the distance far behind the whistle.
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	Well anyway, when I'm done with fixing this bug I'm going to try to visit the wiki documentation and update it.
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	Oh hrm... yeah that sounds like a client bug.
[11:16]	Kitto Flora:	Also click-focus on whistel often ends up as a click on the ground behind for focus. Thats seems to be client picking wrong target of click raytrace?
[11:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	Child Prims aren't blocking touches? That won't work on Mine Sweeper.
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, is the whistle using a mostly transparent texture?
[11:16]	henderson Oxidor:	como senta em madera essas coisas
[11:16]	henderson Oxidor:	?
[11:17]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew: The whisle has no transparent texture. Its solid white with a 2-color texture
[11:17]	Imaze Rhiano:	what viewer?
[11:17]	Kitto Flora:	SL standard viewer
[11:17]	Kitto Flora:	Second Life 1.23.5 (136262) Oct 14 2009 12:08:26 (Second Life Release)
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	Ok. I don't have much of a clue about that bug, except that it does sound like a client bug.
[11:17]	Arawn Spitteler:	If it's the same viewer that he uses on this grid, then it's a change in 1.40
[11:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	That would make it a Client Vulnerability
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	Don Linden's dev team was recently going through a list of projects we will probably work on...
[11:20]	henderson Oxidor:	iai iai po
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	and we had a quick vote at the end of the meeting on four categories of general problems...
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	they were: (let's see if I can remember...)
[11:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	Welcome to Second Life, Henderson.
[11:20]	henderson Oxidor:	sou brasilery lingagem
[11:21]	Arawn Spitteler:	Brazillian?
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... Simon do you remember the four categories we voted on in the 13:00 meeting yesterday?
[11:22]	TheBlack Box:	Group-Chat ?
[11:22]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	waits with held breath for categoies to be named
[11:23]	Kitto Flora:	Beer, cigarettes, whisky and pizza?
[11:23]	TheBlack Box:	lack of hierarchies in linked objects ?
[11:23]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	good ones Kitto.
[11:23]	Arawn Spitteler:	Group Chat - SVC-22, SVC-93, SVC-2931, and Pizza
[11:23]	llSetLinkPrimitiveParams content	breakage, only moves agents 54 meters now
[11:23]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[11:23]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[11:23]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	Just leave the beer outta mine
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	hehe, no. I can remember two of them but not the others...
[11:23]	Jonathan Yap:	How about the ones voted down then (a shorter list, hehe?)
[11:23]	Latif Khalifa	is still waiting for the final faith of the scripting team
[11:24]	Kitto Flora:	Oh another thing Andrew: Since the roolvcka last week loss of vehicles at border crossings has skyrocketd - its back to 10 - 20 losses a day.
[11:24]	Liisa Runo:	yea... lets fix SVC-2931 for 1.4 server, just 30sec of work
[11:24]	Kitto Flora:	Eeek - latvian! I mean rollback.
[11:26]	TheBlack Box:	this chir-system could also need some tweeking ... but what are the 2 issues that you remember Andrew ?
[11:26]	TheBlack Box:	chair
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	well, I can't remember them. I'll ping Don and see if he remembers.
[11:26]	Arawn Spitteler:	Nobody voted to record the minutes of that meeting?
[11:27]	Latif Khalifa:	lol
[11:27]	Qie Niangao:	(I'm thinking these are categories of work, not individual issues)
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	Heh. No I guess not. Don recorded the votes.
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	i was just curious to see how you would all vote
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	they were general categories, with a little overlap even
[11:27]	Imaze Rhiano:	when is 1.4 tried again?
[11:28]	TheBlack Box:	and we are curous to see who Lindens vote :)
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	Imaze, you're asking about server-1.40?
[11:28]	Imaze Rhiano:	ya - when are you trying to deploy it again?
[11:28]	TheBlack Box:	my top 2 are group-chat fixing and adding hierarchies to linking
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	server-1.40 is still blocked. We're deploying some updates to some internal test grids
[11:29]	Latif Khalifa:	1) sim freezes, 2) scripting improvements - c# (for me)
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	but I don't think the beta grid has been updated recently
[11:29]	Rex Cronon:	how long until 1.4 is here? a week? a month?
[11:29]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	votes for group chat fixes/improvements
[11:29]	Kaine Lowenstark:	100% for heirarchical ( spelling ) Linking
[11:29]	Ardy Lay:	1.4 != 1.40
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	and the final deploy update is waiting for a few things -- including what I'll be fixing after lunch -- SVC-3306 busted some stuff
[11:30]	Latif Khalifa:	it 1.40 people, not 1.4, its not a decimal number lol
[11:30]	Arawn Spitteler:	Border Crossings, Group Chat, Vampire Wars, User Maintainable Servers.
[11:30]	office hours	is half over
[11:30]	Imaze Rhiano:	sorry :P
[11:30]	Kitto Flora:	Beta got an update in the last few days, its at ...62xx now - but none of the problems I'm looking at got fixed
[11:31]	Rex Cronon:	in 1.4 there is this nice lsl function LlGetLinkNumberOfSides :)
[11:31]	henderson Oxidor:	ai tem auguem brasilero?
[11:31]	Simon Linden:	The interesting conversation (to me) with the execs seems to be a "fix what we have" vs. "we have to add new things to fix what we have"
[11:31]	Jonathan Yap:	Rex, 1.4 came out in like 2004 :)
[11:31]	Rex Cronon:	"in Server 1.40."
[11:31]	Latif Khalifa:	Rex is stubborn lol, its "one dot forty" :P
[11:32]	Rex Cronon:	well. in the decimal system 1.4== 1.40 :)
[11:32]	TheBlack Box:	Simon: i think both is true ... Group Chat is existing and needs to be finxed ... linking hierarchies are not existing but should come as soon as possible to allow the creation of better AND less laggy scripted content
[11:32]	Latif Khalifa:	it's not a decimal number, its a a version number, different thing entirely ;)
[11:33]	Rex Cronon:	i know:)
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	oh well, I'll submit the categories later. maybe Friday.
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, you say some issues you're watching are still broken
[11:34]	Jonathan Yap	whispers: Andrew, do you remember what categoreis were discussed (and maybe not voted up)
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	I take it one is the train that lifts its nose
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	what are the others?
[11:34]	TheBlack Box:	hehe .. i would really love to know your views on the priorities :) from us (the residents) you will get anything ... maybe the only real overall agreement being group-chat (and als removing the 25-limit)
[11:35]	Qie Niangao:	henderson: maybe secondlife://Brasil/234/205/27
[11:35]	henderson Oxidor:	sueleeeeee
[11:35]	henderson Oxidor:	brasile
[11:35]	henderson Oxidor:	::Dsou
[11:35]	henderson Oxidor:	brasilero
[11:35]	Imaze Rhiano	sighs
[11:35]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew: Yes, Nose up , touch problems and 'fins' (balls bounce on road joints)
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	The fins problem hasn't seen any improvement?
[11:36]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew: No change at all
[11:36]	Imaze Rhiano:	related to havok?
[11:36]	Kitto Flora:	Falcon L said maybe a fix in 1.42?
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... I thought Falcon found some fire for that smoke a while ago but I would have expected it to be out by now.
[11:37]	Latif Khalifa:	heh, once things break, waiting for fix can be looong
[11:37]	Kitto Flora:	The Flacon comment was from last Thursday's Beta grid meet
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	Falcon had an idea on how to reduce or eliminate Kitto's "fin" problem (collisions with hidden faces at prim seams)
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	however the longer term fix is waiting for some help from Havok's support
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	and couldn't get into server-1.40 anyway.
[11:38]	henderson Oxidor:	oi
[11:38]	henderson Oxidor:	:)
[11:39]	Arawn Spitteler:	I thought Prim Seam Bump had some counterintuitive fix with llSPP(taper)
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	The taper thing was a workaround for some content creators -- not a real fix.
[11:39]	TheBlack Box:	this fin-problem just came up here in the dicussion right ? it is not among the list of most important things to focus on that we were talking about before .. right ?
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	Yes TheBlack Box.
[11:40]	Arawn Spitteler:	Right, being more important, it lacks focus
[11:40]	TheBlack Box:	good :)
[11:40]	Arawn Spitteler:	I'd expect the fix to give Havok a clue
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	Arwan, the problem is fairly well understood actually.
[11:41]	Kitto Flora:	So what are 'the four things' ?
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	Turns out there may be a bug deep in havok that is making it worse... and the bug is in some code that is quite hard to understand.
[11:42]	Arawn Spitteler:	Havok also has unmaintainable code?
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	I was hoping to get a response from Don about the four things but he's AFK.
[11:42]	Latif Khalifa:	simon seem asleep ;)
[11:42]	Arawn Spitteler	marvels at the Zen: Four things to remember; each forgot.
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, my brain is too cluttered. Also, the categories were somewhat similar.
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	for example... what is the difference between (1) reduce blocking lag and (2) general optimizations
[11:44]	Ardy Lay:	Interest List!!!!!
[11:44]	Simon Linden:	There's a lot of overlap
[11:44]	Ardy Lay:	Hehe
[11:44]	Latif Khalifa:	1) is more important, total sim freeze is far worse than slower sim imho
[11:44]	TheBlack Box:	general optimizations ... really ? someone actually wrote that down ?
[11:44]	Kitto Flora:	Does the difference matter?
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	There is a distinction actually.
[11:45]	Qie Niangao:	Category 1: Fixing things that are broken. 2: Fixing things that aren't broken. 3: Breaking things that aren't broken. 4. Breaking things that are already broken. (or wait... that may be signal detection theory)
[11:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	General Optimizations is more embracive
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not positive both of those were on the list. That was just an example of two things that are similar but not quite.
[11:45]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	love those Qie. teehee
[11:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hire for QA?
[11:46]	Simon Linden:	I have to run to an 11:45 meeting ... bye everyone
[11:46]	Qie Niangao:	thanks Simon. Have fun
[11:46]	Rex Cronon:	tc simo
[11:46]	Opensource Obscure:	bye Simon , thanks !
[11:46]	Imaze Rhiano:	bye
[11:46]	Latif Khalifa:	take henderso with you lol
[11:46]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Bye
[11:46]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	thanks for th meeting Andrew
[11:46]	Simon Linden:	thanks for coming
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	Oh right. These tuesday meetings have to end at 11:45 for Simon and I.
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	Gotta go.
[11:46]	TheBlack Box:	take care :)
[11:46]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	thanks simon
[11:46]	Rex Cronon:	tc andew
[11:46]	Opensource Obscure:	take care andrew !
[11:46]	Qie Niangao:	thanks Andrew... take care
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks for coming.
[11:46]	Latif Khalifa:	take care andrew and simon :)
[11:46]	Arawn Spitteler:	More Alpha Testing, More Beta Testing, Take Gamma Test Data, and fix the Alpha and Beta Testing therefrom...
[11:46]	Imaze Rhiano:	thanks andrew :)
[11:46]	Rex Cronon:	bye evrybody
[11:47]	Opensource Obscure:	bye
[11:47]	Kitto Flora:	Bye
[11:48]	Arawn Spitteler:	In retrospect, we should all be quite laughable, for we do things, each day, unknowing of the outcome.
[11:48]	Qie Niangao:	hmmm.... not sure if that's Zen or Dada
[11:48]	Qie Niangao:	well, I'm off... have fun!

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