User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 06 25

Transcript

[15:58]	Latif Khalifa:	hello all :)
[15:59]	Latif Khalifa:	hello Simin
[15:59]	Griefer Evermore:	hi Andrew
[15:59]	Latif Khalifa:	hi Andrew
[15:59]	Arawn Spitteler	wonders if there's a Theophiline Linden: When personel were trimmed, I hope the trimmed lightly around the QA
[15:59]	Otome Exonar:	hello andrew *smiles(
[15:59]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Andrew
[15:59]	Yuu Nakamichi:	Hi Andrew
[15:59]	Andrew Linden:	Hello
[15:59]	xstorm Radek:	hi Andrew
[15:59]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[15:59]	DogWomble Dollinger:	hey andrew
[15:59]	xstorm Radek:	lag
[16:00]	Andrew Linden:	Alright... not much news this week ;-)
[16:00]	Yuu Nakamichi:	hehe
[16:01]	Latif Khalifa:	yeah totally dull week :P
[16:01]	xstorm Radek:	lol im missing stuff from my inventory bad Alpha
[16:01]	reddot99 Republic:	can we ask about the havok 7 being rolled back last week?
[16:01]	xstorm Radek:	Dull whats dull ?
[16:01]	reddot99 Republic:	or whenever it was?
[16:01]	xstorm Radek:	i have been lagging sims on aditi
[16:01]	Simon Linden:	reddot99 - sure, but it's coming back next week
[16:01]	reddot99 Republic:	i missed it entirely because of vacation
[16:01]	Latif Khalifa:	xstorm, just kidding, with Philip coming back, etc. it was all but dull xD
[16:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	Good news is, I'm starting to get bored with Farmville Wars. This'll likely presage a general return of straying custom
[16:01]	Andrew Linden:	Was Havok7 actually rolled back? There was a pilot roll... I thought it was left deployed.
[16:02]	xstorm Radek:	what have i missed on agni ?
[16:02]	Latif Khalifa:	pilot roll was rolled back
[16:02]	xstorm Radek:	sorry Andrew
[16:02]	reddot99 Republic:	nope, sensors and such were broken i heard
[16:02]	Otome Exonar:	sorry andrew it was rolled back cause of issues opn at least some of the pilot sims
[16:02]	Gooden Uggla:	andrew it was unrolled, still had a child prim touch problem
[16:02]	Simon Linden:	1.40.0 had a pilot roll, then most of it was rolled back. About 160+ regions were left with it as Falcon and others fixed bugs
[16:03]	Otome Exonar:	*on
[16:03]	Simon Linden:	The fixes are now on Aditi, and we're looking at another pilot roll on the main grid next week
[16:03]	Andrew Linden:	The problems with server-1.40 were some crash modes and yeah PassTouches and PassCollisions were a little messed up.
[16:03]	xstorm Radek:	yes Falcon is great
[16:03]	Griefer Evermore:	good =^_^=
[16:03]	Griefer Evermore:	hi Kaine
[16:03]	Andrew Linden:	I fixed the event passing stuff. And there were a bunch of other stuff fixed.
[16:03]	xstorm Radek:	and to think he puts up with crazy people crashing sims
[16:03]	Andrew Linden:	Simon worked on crash bugs.
[16:04]	xstorm Radek:	did you ?
[16:04]	Simon Linden:	I don't know the exact plan for next week ... how agressively they're going to move after the pilot goes out
[16:04]	Kaine Lowenstark:	O_o is it normally this busy?
[16:04]	Otome Exonar:	xstorm, are you saying people like me shoudlnt be put up with just cause we're crazy?
[16:04]	Simon Linden:	Yep, a bunch of us got into the 1.40 bug fixes.
[16:04]	reddot99 Republic:	this is mostly regulars. so yeah, lol
[16:05]	Otome Exonar	shakes head at Kaine. "Nope. This is a light week"
[16:05]	xstorm Radek:	ok if you did that i can now move up to collistion bombs and wave and flood attacks
[16:05]	Gooden Uggla:	the touch passes seem to be fixed, thank you
[16:05]	Andrew Linden:	I think server-1.40 is ready to go, and there will definitely be a server-1.40.2 update that will follow.
[16:05]	Simon Linden:	Also there's been a 2.1 viewer beta out : http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Viewer/2.1.0
[16:05]	Griefer Evermore	is testing..
[16:06]	reddot99 Republic:	how long till animating can be done inside the veiwer?
[16:06]	Bronson Blackadder:	on it now
[16:06]	Simon Linden:	That has a few nasty region crossing problems, so hang onto your attachments if you drive vehicles between regions :)
[16:06]	Kaine Lowenstark:	on it now
[16:06]	Simon Linden:	AFAIK it's all visual, no data loss
[16:06]	xstorm Radek:	2.1 has crossing problems with lots of drop packets
[16:06]	Latif Khalifa:	hehe
[16:06]	xstorm Radek:	has that been fix ?
[16:06]	Arawn Spitteler	wants to test it at a four corner crossing, just for fun
[16:06]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Whats all in 1.40 as its being released?
[16:06]	Latif Khalifa:	not as if region crossing in vehicles work that fine in any viewer ;)
[16:07]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Youd talked about it earlier Andrew but Ive mostly forgotton
[16:07]	Simon Linden:	Here are the 1.40 release notes:
[16:07]	Simon Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.40
[16:07]	reddot99 Republic:	from the deployment of havok 7, how long until the ray tracing thing falcan had mentioned?
[16:07]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Thank you
[16:07]	Simon Linden:	I'm not sure how up-to-date they are
[16:07]	xstorm Radek:	is 2.1 like the 2.0.2 alpha ?
[16:07]	Latif Khalifa:	some of that was disabled
[16:07]	Latif Khalifa:	like http textures :(
[16:08]	Simon Linden:	We were just meeting today and discussing the ray tracing ... it's still very early for that, so I'm not sure when/if it's getting out
[16:08]	Kaluura Boa:	Great disappointment about HTTP textures
[16:08]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... looks like that wiki page needs some updating.
[16:08]	Simon Linden:	The upper management and thus direction is a little bit, uh, "fluid" these days
[16:08]	Imaze Rhiano:	ray tracing thing?
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	I'll make a note to try to add anything missing that I can identify.
[16:09]	reddot99 Republic:	aww, i have a couple projects just waiting to be switched from sensors to raytracing
[16:09]	xstorm Radek:	i never look at the wiki any more its a bit out dated
[16:09]	Simon Linden:	It's an idea to add an LSL function that could tell you basically what object you would hit going from point A to B
[16:09]	Liisa Runo:	llGetRegionAgentKeyList(SORT_BY_DISTANCE);
[16:09]	Kaine Lowenstark:	A few more things that require a new viewer and will be going into public beta soon.
[16:09]	Kaine Lowenstark:	o/
[16:09]	Imaze Rhiano:	ookay
[16:10]	Imaze Rhiano:	good for guns
[16:10]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	What's good for guns?
[16:10]	Sebastean Steamweaver	arrives latish.
[16:10]	xstorm Radek:	Simon thats sounds like what i was thinking of at one time
[16:10]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Hai guize
[16:10]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Teehee
[16:10]	Andrew Linden:	yeah I was joking about no news... you probably heard that Philip Linden is back as CEO of Linden Lab.
[16:10]	Simon Linden:	So it could replace bullets, for example (which tend to be hard to see in RL anyway) with games
[16:10]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Yes I did
[16:10]	Liisa Runo:	:)
[16:10]	Gooden Uggla:	sounds like an autofire script
[16:10]	Imaze Rhiano:	how did M take it?
[16:10]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Are we talking about M linden or raycasting?
[16:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	On the Lamb?
[16:11]	Imaze Rhiano:	both Seba
[16:11]	DogWomble Dollinger:	sebastean, a bit of both i think :P
[16:11]	Kaine Lowenstark:	for now
[16:11]	Andrew Linden:	I think Philip's return is a good sign -- I'm very optimistic about how things will go from here.
[16:11]	reddot99 Republic:	or as falcan said, conecasting would be welcome,
[16:11]	xstorm Radek:	yes im pissing my self happy that philip is back he the only one that seems to understand second life
[16:11]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Andrew, I had the same reaction.
[16:11]	Kaine Lowenstark:	So long as mesh happend I dont care whos at the top ^^
[16:11]	Andrew Linden:	Philip says he's going to try to focus the company, and work on fewer things, but do them better.
[16:11]	Latif Khalifa:	Andrew, good to hear, perhaps he will reconsider closing down brighton and leaving the scripting engine basically unmaintained
[16:12]	Liisa Runo:	everybody everywhre are super happy about philip taking the lead again
[16:12]	xstorm Radek:	thats good
[16:12]	Imaze Rhiano:	so now you are going to replacing bullets by sending message to avatars attachments?
[16:12]	Gooden Uggla:	perhaps he'll put some emphasis on fixing Mono :)
[16:12]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	It's kind of like King Richard returning to England, heh.
[16:12]	reddot99 Republic:	microsoft has to fix mono before linden labs can
[16:12]	xstorm Radek:	do you think we will see less people spamming for bluemars in sl now ?
[16:12]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Microsoft?
[16:13]	Gooden Uggla:	it's fixed, where have you been red?
[16:13]	Simon Linden:	Imaze - that would be up to whoever is developing a combat system. So the gun might do the raytrace that discovers "I hit object X", but you'll have to figure out what to do with that information
[16:13]	Kaine Lowenstark:	lol nonone wants blue mars in SL
[16:13]	Imaze Rhiano:	P is sounds to be good creative CEO - but might miss business skills
[16:13]	Kaine Lowenstark:	i know Im one of the three peopel that can log in
[16:13]	Simon Linden:	You're right that it might then send a message about it
[16:13]	Kaine Lowenstark:	but mesh import will be nice :(
[16:13]	xstorm Radek:	some one has a open mic lol
[16:13]	Otome Exonar:	Philip isnt the best, but hes mbetter at running the company then m is...
[16:14]	Gooden Uggla:	fixing Mono in SL = upgrading to a more current Mono version
[16:14]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Simon, there is an extensive discussion on raytracing in JIRA where Falcon had useful inputs.
[16:14]	Simon Linden:	Right, that's the best place to look at it ... do you have a link?
[16:14]	Kaine Lowenstark:	karful is the open mike
[16:14]	Latif Khalifa:	I'm more concerned with basically the full scripting team getting laid off 1 moth before c# beta
[16:14]	Imaze Rhiano:	how about building entire combat system by using raytracing to server code?
[16:14]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I will in a moment
[16:14]	Simon Linden:	thanks
[16:15]	Yuu Nakamichi:	same here, Seb and Andrew
[16:15]	Kaine Lowenstark:	hey
[16:15]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	SVC-5381
[16:15]	Create llCastRay	for raytracing operations
[16:15]	Latif Khalifa:	Hoping management changes can influence some changes in that too
[16:15]	Kaine Lowenstark:	you can selectively block voice and text in 2.1
[16:15]	reddot99 Republic:	no, i like being about to control what happens after the avatar is found, plus, damage is useful for other means
[16:15]	Kaine Lowenstark:	thats awsome
[16:15]	xstorm Radek:	andrew do you feel we will see less of this silly talk about Second Life turning in to facebook and working on iphones ?
[16:15]	Andrew Linden:	Falcon is hot to trot for ray tracing and some other relatively easy physics features.
[16:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	Second Life would fold, as a Facebook Wannabe. Better to be Second Life.
[16:16]	reddot99 Republic:	can we get the sensor physical integer yet?
[16:16]	Sebastean Steamweaver	has missed attending office hours.
[16:16]	Latif Khalifa:	I hope Philip hates viewer2 UI as much as I do ;)
[16:16]	Andrew Linden:	However the focus of the company is going to be fixing stuff and reducing lag -- it might be hard for him to ship some of his stuff without some really good demos.
[16:16]	Ovaltine Constantine	was actually getting used to Viewer 2
[16:17]	Ovaltine Constantine	ducks
[16:17]	Andrew Linden:	However I suspect he will be able to make his case.
[16:17]	Griefer Evermore	likes v2 now
[16:17]	reddot99 Republic:	i'll help him with demos of stuff that could use raytracing
[16:17]	Kaine Lowenstark	loves viewer 2.1 but hes a builder so
[16:17]	Simon Linden:	Right .... I think that any new features are going to have to show very clearly why they will make SL run better
[16:17]	Imaze Rhiano:	Any plans to restart interop between SL and opensims - or - going to walled garden model?
[16:17]	Andrew Linden:	BTW, Falcon mentioned that the feature is easy to do but when it comes to making some really cool demo content he's not much of an LSL scriptor.
[16:17]	Gooden Uggla:	ovaltine, we all have a LOT of practice "getting used" to things...
[16:18]	Kaine Lowenstark:	So we have a call to arms for demo developers
[16:18]	Latif Khalifa:	focus on fixing perfomance problems and bugs is not a bad thing
[16:18]	Andrew Linden:	I meant to suggest to him that he open up the feature on aditi and convince some creative Resi's to make some cool content for him to show around.
[16:18]	reddot99 Republic:	andrew. if he can get it running on just one beta sim, i can get a dozen projects done as demos
[16:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	If he has a low opinion of his scripting, he could be pretty good.
[16:18]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, that might work out reddot99. I'll bounce the idea off of him.
[16:18]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I would be more than happy to help with demos also
[16:19]	Arawn Spitteler:	He could hold an event, on Agni, asking people to demonstrate features
[16:19]	Andrew Linden:	Well... I don't think the demo should be on agni.
[16:19]	Otome Exonar:	andrew, he might ask suzzanne for help. She designed some of the most widely used systems in sl (cola system, intra sym syncing etc)
[16:19]	reddot99 Republic:	i've got 2 things done here that are just needing raytracing to work
[16:19]	Andrew Linden:	People would be ale to take objects and scripts to inventory that work on the demo region, but not anywhere else
[16:19]	Simon Linden:	yeah, experimental features are going to be locked out of the main grid
[16:20]	Andrew Linden:	and then if the feature never ships then that would just become broken content forever.
[16:20]	Simon Linden:	at some point I'd like to do an experiment here ... get everyone walking around in circles and watch some of the performance numbers
[16:20]	Andrew Linden:	Oh yeah, I just remembered... I have two items for the agenda today...
[16:21]	Latif Khalifa:	did you get that poll you had last time? about priorities
[16:21]	Otome Exonar:	Simon give me soem dates and times I can try to be there and bring frineds
[16:21]	Andrew Linden:	Item one... I had mentioned on Tues that we had an informal poll within our dev team (about 5 or 6 devs)
[16:22]	Arawn Spitteler:	Oh, did you finally remember the four must-remembers?
[16:22]	Andrew Linden:	The poll was to vote for the most important category of stuff to work on, out of four somewhat overlapping categories
[16:22]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, so I'll list them now
[16:22]	Andrew Linden:	and then everyone will be able to vote for their #1 category
[16:23]	Andrew Linden:	but first let me decribe them, and don't vote until I give the countdown.
[16:23]	reddot99 Republic:	simon's poll machine going to do it?
[16:23]	Latif Khalifa:	ok
[16:23]	Andrew Linden:	They are, in no particular order:
[16:23]	Simon Linden:	let's see if I can get that working
[16:23]	Andrew Linden:	(A) increased avatar density (less lag for more avatars)
[16:24]	xstorm Radek:	?
[16:24]	Andrew Linden:	(2) better smoothness (fewer and smaller lag spikes -- such as spikes on teleport out and in)
[16:24]	Imaze Rhiano:	huh?
[16:24]	Andrew Linden:	(3) faster loading of region content
[16:24]	xstorm Radek:	ok Andrew some thing is not right there
[16:24]	Latif Khalifa:	xstorm, hold on
[16:24]	Gooden Uggla	waits for IV
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	(4) better balance across hardware (this could actually improve general performance, and would also save the company money, hence it is on the list)
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, before we vote... are there any questions about clarification?
[16:25]	reddot99 Republic:	can we suggest a 5?
[16:25]	Gooden Uggla:	1 and 2 are very closely related
[16:25]	Latif Khalifa:	no, just vote 1
[16:25]	Latif Khalifa:	i mean one coice
[16:25]	Imaze Rhiano:	what does 1 mean? less vertices for avatars?
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	Not yet reddot99, leave 5 for after the vote -- these were the 4 that we already voted on
[16:25]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Im saying that a 2 will cause one and three by nature
[16:26]	Kaine Lowenstark:	**seeing
[16:26]	Latif Khalifa:	is voting open? ;)
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	The categories are related... but they are somewhat different in how/what work is done to achive the goal
[16:26]	Bronson Blackadder:	#2
[16:26]	Liisa Runo:	(5) More script functions to create new content for SL
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	Ok let's vote on 3...
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	1
[16:26]	Latif Khalifa:	eh, let's not invent 5
[16:26]	Gooden Uggla:	they both require the new mono
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	2
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	3
[16:26]	reddot99 Republic:	right now i have issues with this gun using sensors, because it kills people who are behind walls, since it uses a sensor and
[16:26]	Bronson Blackadder:	#2
[16:26]	xstorm Radek:	ok first off this will sound crazy but why not have the avatar and the items the avatar may have on placed on its own server ?
[16:26]	Latif Khalifa:	2)
[16:26]	Otome Exonar:	#1
[16:26]	Kaine Lowenstark:	2
[16:26]	Kaluura Boa:	#3
[16:26]	DogWomble Dollinger:	#2
[16:26]	Ardy Lay:	2
[16:27]	reddot99 Republic:	lol. i'll say 1
[16:27]	Griefer Evermore:	2
[16:27]	Imaze Rhiano:	2
[16:27]	Ovaltine Constantine:	I'll go with #2
[16:27]	xstorm Radek:	and keep the main inventory to only load when needed ?
[16:27]	Liisa Runo:	3?
[16:27]	Gooden Uggla:	2
[16:27]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I think I'll say 2
[16:27]	Gooden Uggla:	i assume 2 is sim freezes
[16:27]	Arawn Spitteler:	I'd favor 4, as the others are likely failures of that.
[16:27]	Andrew Linden:	Ok thanks for the vote... I'm trying to remember which one I voted for.
[16:27]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	It's a hard choice.
[16:28]	Latif Khalifa:	clear winner is 2 -- everybody hates sim freezes
[16:28]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Yeah, Arawn, I'm torn between 2 and 4.
[16:28]	Yuu Nakamichi:	if 2 means sim freezes then yep = 2
[16:28]	Kaine Lowenstark:	4 would be my next vote
[16:28]	Kaine Lowenstark:	but sim freezes are debilitating
[16:28]	Latif Khalifa:	sim freezes are such a detrement to the experience
[16:28]	Liisa Runo	orbits reddot at sandbox for voting #1 :P
[16:28]	Kaine Lowenstark:	especially in high density areas where people ar coming and going
[16:28]	Gooden Uggla:	fixing 2 means 1 would probably improve immediately
[16:28]	xstorm Radek:	4
[16:28]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Simply having a lot of people in a region doesn't seem to cause as much lag as it did a couple years ago. But the big lag spikes on entering / exiting the region get really annoying really fast
[16:28]	reddot99 Republic:	i was in a sim yesterday that was at 0-3 fps constantly because it had 60 people
[16:28]	Arawn Spitteler:	Puttiong Avatar Attachments in Agent Domain would fix one and two, but manifest four
[16:28]	Andrew Linden:	I was curious to see how some Residents would vote.
[16:28]	Yuu Nakamichi:	yup, it breaks immersion
[16:28]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:29]	Latif Khalifa:	Andrew, well you see that 2 is clearly the biggest sore
[16:29]	reddot99 Republic:	also kept timing out on the server pings
[16:29]	Ardy Lay:	Get rid of the issue with Mono then reset your metrics and reevaluate performance for the next improvement cycle.
[16:29]	Otome Exonar:	opal 3 years ago havign lots of people on a sim didnt cause as much lag as ten people cause now (by lots i mean over 50)
[16:29]	Andrew Linden:	Well, the good news is that LL will be working on all of these
[16:29]	Arawn Spitteler:	I've been getting severe hang crash in Facebook, which shouldn't be a nasty as SL
[16:29]	Yuu Nakamichi:	Philip rightly mentioned immersion as the key aspect in his speech
[16:29]	Gooden Uggla:	there was a time when we regularly had 90 avs on a region, pre-mono... it can't be done now, no one can move
[16:29]	xstorm Radek:	if you update the hardware now to save money it may help later on
[16:29]	Andrew Linden:	but we were trying to use the vote to help us decide on what sorts of projects to work on first as a team
[16:30]	Bronson Blackadder:	I seen 63 once
[16:30]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:30]	reddot99 Republic:	is falcan on either grid at the moment?
[16:30]	Latif Khalifa:	btw. very good article by zha http://zhaewry.wordpress.com/2010/06/25/back-to-the-future/ for those who haven't seen it
[16:30]	Yuu Nakamichi:	yep
[16:30]	Yuu Nakamichi:	I liked that a lot Latif
[16:30]	Yuu Nakamichi:	good article
[16:30]	Latif Khalifa:	excellent
[16:30]	reddot99 Republic:	also, upgrading hardware would be nice, somebody was saying sl still runs of pentium 4s
[16:30]	Yuu Nakamichi:	up
[16:30]	Otome Exonar	remembers when we had over 100 avis routinely in rp sims with low lag
[16:30]	Latif Khalifa:	Philip should read it :)
[16:30]	xstorm Radek:	Falcon
[16:31]	Andrew Linden:	There are a number of projects that are addressing each of the 4 categories
[16:31]	Gooden Uggla:	so what's in 1.44 then?
[16:31]	Otome Exonar:	brb gotta answer my pager
[16:32]	Andrew Linden:	For example... the http texture download project which is still sitting in QA (delayed by server-1.40 emergencies) will address (3)
[16:32]	Ardy Lay:	Otome, say BEEP BEEP BEEP!
[16:32]	xstorm Radek:	Simon what do you see still to be the main problem on 1.40 ?
[16:32]	Latif Khalifa:	Andrew, you also need interest list update for that
[16:32]	reddot99 Republic:	the 60 avatars was also an issue partially because every one of them was holding a gun. that was designed to fire upwards of 500 rounds per minute
[16:32]	Simon Linden:	Hopefully nothing is remaining :) We fixed a bunch of stuff and are ready for the new pilot
[16:32]	Yuu Nakamichi:	and his previous: http://zhaewry.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/challenges-of-immersion/
[16:32]	Andrew Linden:	We're also overhauling our caching interface to our asset syste -- that project is part #4 and #3
[16:32]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[16:32]	Arawn Spitteler:	I don't think you can do ten rounds a second.
[16:32]	reddot99 Republic:	yes you can
[16:33]	Imaze Rhiano:	why guns need to shoot so many rounds?
[16:33]	xstorm Radek:	well Simon i will get back on Aditi and see what i can crash ;-)
[16:33]	Ardy Lay:	Imaze, too lazy to aim.
[16:33]	reddot99 Republic:	combat and spread. most actual weapons achieve much more
[16:33]	Simon Linden:	ok, this may be redundant but I like playing with my scripts ... I'm going to run the pollster with Andrew's choices hastily added
[16:33]	Latif Khalifa:	kk
[16:33]	button labels	must be 24 or fewer characters long
[16:33]	reddot99 Republic:
[16:33]	button labels	must be 24 or fewer characters long
[16:33]	button labels	must be 24 or fewer characters long
[16:33]	button labels	must be 24 or fewer characters long
[16:33]	reddot99 Republic:	lol simon
[16:33]	button labels	must be 24 or fewer characters long
[16:33]	button labels	must be 24 or fewer characters long
[16:33]	button labels	must be 24 or fewer characters long
[16:33]	button labels	must be 24 or fewer characters long
[16:33]	Too many	errors... dropping further messages until the flood stops
[16:33]	Simon Linden:	oops
[16:33]	Latif Khalifa:	you need to trim awatar names ;)
[16:33]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[16:33]	Andrew Linden:	We have a dev who has started to clean up the intrestlist system -- not a complete rewrite, but the beginning of an incremental cleanup -- #3, #2, and maybe #1
[16:34]	Simon Linden:	answers are too long
[16:34]	Andrew Linden:	er... maybe not #2 on that
[16:34]	xstorm Radek:	Simon time to go back to school
[16:34]	reddot99 Republic:	lol, have it as one 2 or 3
[16:34]	reddot99 Republic:	1 2 3 or 4
[16:34]	Latif Khalifa:	yeah 1 2 3 4 will doo
[16:34]	Gooden Uggla:	considering #3 would be quickest, that makes sense, still...
[16:35]	You were	asked: What should Linden Lab work on the most?
[16:35]	The results	are:
[16:35]	Gooden Uggla:	i was under the impression that mono and possibly the debian had to be upgraded to fix 1 & 2
[16:35]	Imaze Rhiano:	can't you use larger hit cone instead of 500 bullets?
[16:35]	Andrew Linden:	there is no single fix for any of these categories
[16:35]	Latif Khalifa:	sad thing is we have been trying to get some attention about sim freezes for more than a year now, and until a couple of months ago nobody really noticed. Hopefully such things will not happen in the future
[16:35]	Gooden Uggla:	true enough, but ...
[16:36]	Andrew Linden:	The other item I had for the agenda is that I started to try to fix SVC-93 today.
[16:36]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[16:36]	Simon Linden:	that's ugly
[16:36]	reddot99 Republic:	ah well, i think we know what it was simon
[16:37]	Liisa Runo:	people notice the sim freeze only in places that have 40+ agents, and in those places your so spammed with stupid gestures that you actually enjoy the freezes
[16:37]	Latif Khalifa:	Simon, lindens should try making things like that, to be able to tell how sucky some bits are for the content creators ;)
[16:37]	Simon Linden:	I totally agree Latif
[16:37]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Like llTextBox :D
[16:37]	xstorm Radek:	there is a problem
[16:37]	Yuu Nakamichi:	hehe
[16:37]	reddot99 Republic:	or lack thereof
[16:37]	You were	asked: What should Linden Lab work on the most?
[16:37]	The results	are:
[16:37]	Balance servers	better received 2 votes
[16:37]	Faster updates	received 1 votes
[16:37]	Smoother running	regions received 11 votes
[16:37]	More AVs	in a region received 2 votes
[16:37]	Imaze Rhiano:	what you think is causing this? http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5913 - I bet that their servers are running out of memory
[16:37]	request silently	failing
[16:37]	xstorm Radek:	faster updates = smother run
[16:38]	Gooden Uggla:	or, liisas, live music performances...
[16:38]	Gooden Uggla:	*eye roll*
[16:38]	reddot99 Republic:	bandwidth i bet
[16:38]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Imaze, does that refer to things like 2.0's web on a prim?
[16:38]	Kaine Lowenstark:	I have that silently fail all the time
[16:39]	Imaze Rhiano:	that is LSL scripting related
[16:39]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Ok reading my own answers now that ffx is up
[16:40]	reddot99 Republic:	andrew. how much did you look into SVC-5926
[16:40]	Havok 7	Bugs - Verklund
[16:40]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Human sacrifice, how lovely.
[16:41]	xstorm Radek:	ok think of this faster updates can make things run better
[16:41]	Andrew Linden:	reddot99, Falcon looked into that one and I believe he fixed it.
[16:41]	xstorm Radek:	but it will not help if you walk in to a sim filled with items that rez objects
[16:42]	Andrew Linden:	What was happening is that the content in that region was creating extreme lag -- caused, I think, by object motion and creation inside a giant VolumeDetect megaprim.
[16:42]	Simon Linden:	I think that one is also a long list, and I know he and Monty were trying to break it into the parts
[16:42]	xstorm Radek:	hi Thomas
[16:42]	Andrew Linden:	Falcon was able to modify how new objects are added to the physics engine so that they have the correct collision group immediately, which reduced the extreme lag
[16:42]	Arawn Spitteler:	I wonder, what if we had smaller sims, that simply followed people, rather than larger ones that wait?
[16:42]	Andrew Linden:	the lag in the phys engine was triggering the RCCS (Runtime Collision Control System)
[16:43]	reddot99 Republic:	which is what?
[16:43]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Andrew, I have to leave really soon, so I apologize if this isn't quite on the current topic, or I missed an earlier talk on it. Were you able to find the cause of the PosJump returned teleporters?
[16:43]	xstorm Radek:	but if the servers was to handle inventory better and trancfer of data to the user faster this will help the user
[16:43]	Andrew Linden:	which causes some updates to delay for fail as it tries to rescue performance.
[16:43]	Thomas Shikami:	Greetings
[16:43]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Hi there Thomas
[16:44]	xstorm Radek:	so what one must ask is how to spend the money better ?
[16:44]	Andrew Linden:	Sebastean, no think that is still broken. Another LL dev looked at it breifly and I think he misunderstood the bug description and incorrectly closed.
[16:44]	Andrew Linden:	I need to get back to that one.
[16:44]	Andrew Linden	makes another note.
[16:45]	xstorm Radek:	if we keep putting good money in to bad systems we will still have problems with bad systems
[16:45]	Yuu Nakamichi:	I wanted to briefly touch on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5890
[16:45]	ability allows	group members to change autoreturn time on group-owned land
[16:45]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	All righty :)
[16:46]	reddot99 Republic:	xstorm, you'll need to take that up with finance i think
[16:46]	xstorm Radek:	over all its how fast the data gets to the user and the best way to send that data
[16:46]	Thomas Shikami:	the logical thinking on that one was, auto-return would just be another way of returning objects owned by others
[16:46]	Arawn Spitteler:	That sounds an easy fix, Yuu, once decided on.
[16:46]	Yuu Nakamichi:	there are good use cases for splitting the autoreturn off of the ability to manually reutrn obejcts
[16:46]	Yuu Nakamichi:	yes
[16:47]	Yuu Nakamichi:	you would want to give group members the ability to return objects by hand, but not have them swicth autreturn off at the same time
[16:47]	xstorm Radek:	do not invest any more in the wistles and bell but fix what needs to be fix first
[16:47]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Andrew, a while back, you mentioned the idea of creating a new system on a new continent which built off of/learned from the issues in the current system. Do you think Philip would be open to that idea, and would it move toward the goals of improving SL as a whole?
[16:47]	Latif Khalifa:	the logical place to put that would be under Toggle various About Land > Options settings as harleen notes
[16:47]	Andrew Linden:	ok back... was interrupted IRL
[16:47]	Yuu Nakamichi:	and that would be consistent with the descirption of the ability anyway
[16:47]	Yuu Nakamichi:	yes, that is where I assumed ti woudl be
[16:47]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[16:47]	Yuu Nakamichi:	but it's not
[16:48]	Latif Khalifa:	some fscked up ENUM somewhere ;)
[16:48]	Liisa Runo:	Lindens, if you want to see intresting performance thing: go and visit "Sandbox Goguen" it has had 70K scripts for almost 2 days now. Ontynes still have not read the support ticket about it. And g-team has ignored the AR's about it. Natives have not found the scripts in the sim. And no one been standing there 2 days wearing the scripts. Autoreturn of that sim is set to 2hours.
[16:48]	Andrew Linden:	Yuu, as to the group roles bug. I'll try to look into it. I've got some time allocated for pure maintenance and will put it on my short list.
[16:48]	Yuu Nakamichi:	excellent, thanks Andrew
[16:48]	Yuu Nakamichi:	apparently its coded into the viewer that way?
[16:49]	Andrew Linden:	Sebastean, I've talked to Philip about that idea. It is a pipe dream, I think -- we're going to try to incrementallyi fix stuff still.
[16:49]	Arawn Spitteler:	As long as the code is left better than found, for maintainability; don't program the way I do.
[16:50]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[16:50]	Andrew Linden:	Yuu, the group roles thing sounds like it is either a design bug, or a server-bug.
[16:50]	Yuu Nakamichi:	ok
[16:51]	Ardy Lay:	"Oops. We are out of group role ability booleans. Which one to we tack access to the autoreturn time setting onto?"
[16:51]	reddot99 Republic:	lol
[16:51]	Yuu Nakamichi:	heh ardy
[16:52]	Ardy Lay:	"Uh.. how about the ones that let people return stuff?"
[16:52]	Thomas Shikami:	how about the proposal bits?
[16:52]	Latif Khalifa:	it's a 64bit flags enum ;)
[16:53]	xstorm Radek:	ssshhhh do not say 64 bit any thing the linden lab workers are scared of that word
[16:53]	reddot99 Republic:	simon, using godmode again?
[16:53]	Simon Linden:	OK, I'd like to ask everyone's help for a little performance test...
[16:53]	Ardy Lay:	Latif, ah, that makes it a UI issue and legacy? Imagine how many land groups are out there that changing it will affect. Hmmm...
[16:53]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Dun-dun-dun-duuuun.
[16:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	onigokko?
[16:53]	Simon Linden:	let me get set up, and then could everyone stand up, walk around this area, do some chat, gestures, etc
[16:53]	DogWomble Dollinger:	haha arawn
[16:53]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I love onigokko.
[16:54]	Simon Linden:	The sim is running fine now, and I'd liek to slow it down
[16:54]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[16:54]	DogWomble Dollinger:	i think i've still got that hidden somewhere, i'm not sure
[16:54]	xstorm Radek:	roflmao
[16:54]	Gooden Uggla:	..::..LETS..::..
[16:54]	Thomas Shikami:	walking on sunshine
[16:54]	Gooden Uggla:	..::..GET..::..
[16:54]	Gooden Uggla:	..::..READY..::..
[16:54]	Gooden Uggla:	..::..TO..::..
[16:54]	Gooden Uggla:	..::..RUUUUUMMMBLEEEEEEE..::..
[16:54]	Kaine Lowenstark:	~ Time to Tiny River Dance ~
[16:54]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, you're going to measure some performance stats ?
[16:54]	Ardy Lay:	Did he say "Go" already?
[16:54]	Imaze Rhiano:	these boots are not made for walking
[16:54]	Gooden Uggla:	...Welcome Back..."My Friends"...
[16:54]	Gooden Uggla:	...to the show that never ends...
[16:54]	Gooden Uggla:	...we're so glad you could attend...
[16:54]	Gooden Uggla:	...come inside... come inside...
[16:54]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Are you a generous lover? ...I'd like to think I am.
[16:54]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Then you are.
[16:54]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Teehee
[16:54]	Imaze Rhiano:	wwwwwwwww
[16:54]	Imaze Rhiano:	wdddw
[16:55]	Imaze Rhiano:	wddddd
[16:55]	Gooden Uggla:	~~ "Yes !! We Are All Different!!"~~
[16:55]	Thomas Shikami:	hehe
[16:55]	Gooden Uggla:	·0.o· "I'm Not."·0.o·
[16:55]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Teehee
[16:55]	Arawn Spitteler:	Am I spelling it right? Inventory can't find.
[16:55]	Arawn Spitteler:	*FART* AAAAAHHH ITS HOT!!!
[16:55]	Thomas Shikami	force hugs you.
[16:55]	Psi Merlin:	foo, bar, foo, bar, baz
[16:55]	Liisa Runo:	THEY'RE COMING TO TAKE ME AWAY! HAHA!
[16:55]	Andrew Linden:	heheh
[16:55]	Gooden Uggla:	**Today we have discovered a force more powerful than luck or genius...
[16:55]	Gooden Uggla:	**STUPIDITY**
[16:55]	Ovaltine Constantine	thinks this may be for a youtube video rather than a performance test
[16:55]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Teehee
[16:55]	Imaze Rhiano:	lalalall
[16:55]	Simon Linden:	ha
[16:55]	Andrew Linden:	/flip
[16:55]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Ha ha ha! I wish!
[16:55]	Thomas Shikami:	~*nyu?*~
[16:55]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Birdman! Where are the legal pads? We're dangerously low...on legal pads!
[16:55]	Latif Khalifa	Hooo!! Hooo!! Hooo!!
[16:55]	Simon Linden:	ok, 1 sec...
[16:55]	Thomas Shikami:	...*meow*
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	Spammer >:(
[16:56]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Teehee
[16:56]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Teehee
[16:56]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Teehee
[16:56]
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	パン▒ Come on Baby ▒パン
[16:56]	reddot99 Republic:	lostest is 39 so far
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	パン▒ Don't fear the Reaper ▒パン
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	パン▒ Baby take my hand ▒パン
[16:56]	Ovaltine Constantine:	Teehee
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	パン▒ Don't fear the Reaper ▒パン
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	ON A HAMSTER!!!
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	パン▒ We'll be able to fly ▒パン
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	パン▒ Don't fear the Reaper ▒パン
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	パン▒ Baby I'm your man ▒パン
[16:56]
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	POKEMON! Gotta catch 'em all!!1
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	Yeah, yeah I feel hardcore.
[16:56]	Arawn Spitteler:	onigokko
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	Our Lindens, who art in the Labs,
[16:56]	Kaluura Boa:	=^_^=
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	Hallowed be thy prims.
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	Yeah, yeah always hardcore
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	Thy Grid-dom come, thy will be done,
[16:56]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	D:
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	On sims, as it is in The Preview.
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	Give us this day our daily crash,
[16:56]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Arawn, could I get a copy of onigokko?
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	And forgive us our Spammery.
[16:56]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah Baby!
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	Yeah, ~yeah I feel hardcore~
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	Yeah, ~yeah always hardcore~
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	As we forgive those, who greif against us
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	And lead us not, into private parcels.
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	Amen.
[16:56]	Liisa Runo:	*** Nom Nom Nom Nom Nom Nom Nom ***
[16:56]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah Baby!
[16:57]	Thomas Shikami:	=O.o= mrew...
[16:57]	DogWomble Dollinger:	HoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOo!!!!!!!!
[16:57]	Ovaltine Constantine:	You can run but you can't hide! Unless of course it's in this general area over here...blind spot.
[16:57]	Liisa Runo:	*meow*
[16:57]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	onigokko
[16:57]	Kaluura Boa:	Somebody is wondering in what asylum she just arrived...
[16:57]	Simon Linden:	OK another few mintues ... this time head south and back into the region, or TP in and out please
[16:59]	Andrew Linden:	Simon didn't say "stop"
[16:59]	Latif Khalifa:	teleport in -> teleport out
[16:59]	Latif Khalifa:	teleport in -> teleport out
[16:59]	Simon Linden:	says stop
[17:00]	Kaluura Boa:	=^_^=
[17:00]	DogWomble Dollinger:	aaah, simon says now :)
[17:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	onigokko
[17:00]	Latif Khalifa:	siman says :)
[17:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	stop
[17:00]	Simon Linden:	Sebastean I loved that chair animation
[17:00]	xstorm Radek:	oh crap lag
[17:00]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Hehe
[17:00]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	It's my favorite item in all of second life.
[17:00]	Andrew Linden:	Alright Simon, so what are you looking at?
[17:00]	Ashiri Sands:	so... no Griefer
[17:00]	Ashiri Sands	laughs.
[17:01]	Latif Khalifa:	Simon, in my experience tests like this don't really slow down region, you need to get hundreds of different avatrs visiting
[17:01]	Latif Khalifa:	a busy sim with people coming in and out all the time suffers the most
[17:01]	xstorm Radek:	gummy
[17:01]	Ardy Lay:	Playing animations do not impact the simulators like simply walking around does.
[17:01]	Simon Linden:	right, the first time the frame rate really didn't drop that much, which is a good thing :)
[17:02]	DogWomble Dollinger:	latif, we could always see what als we can bring in and do te sametest P
[17:02]	Gooden Uggla:	...WHAT ARE YE LOOKI'N AT?
[17:02]	Gooden Uggla:	...BACK TA WORK!
[17:02]	Sebastean Steamweaver	smooths out the wrinkles in his waistcoat.
[17:02]	Simon Linden:	But the region crossings and TPs definitely had a lot of lag events, which we know happen in those cases
[17:02]	xstorm Radek:	wish to see it drop ?/
[17:02]	xstorm Radek:	i can drop it lol
[17:02]	Ardy Lay:	Simon, search events. Go to a music event. Live music, not DJs. They are often in the live music catergory.
[17:02]	Simon Linden:	yeah, I know you can xstorm :)
[17:03]	Imaze Rhiano:	visit in sex sims
[17:03]	xstorm Radek:	:-)
[17:03]	Ardy Lay:	At the live music events you will get to see some real loading.
[17:03]	reddot99 Republic:	or go to the sim titan for a couple hours
[17:03]	Simon Linden:	Right Ardy, those are good sims to check
[17:03]	Gooden Uggla:	or to parrothead cove for the multi game
[17:03]	Simon Linden:	we have 20 AVs here, that's not really a heavy load, but it was good to try out
[17:03]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Or any of the paramilitary sims.
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	Thanks again, I'm going to see what kind of data I got
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	We have some performance metrics functionality that is usually disabled, but can be turned on by changing a config file.
[17:04]	Ellla McMahon:	try one of Skye Galaxy's Events
[17:04]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I need to get going for work folks :)
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	Is that what you were enabling Simon?
[17:04]	DogWomble Dollinger:	no problems simon, and ifyou need any ore of this type of testing, i'm ure we'd all loveto have teh same sort of fun again
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	Andrew - yes, I ran 2 2 minute tests where it dumped data for every frame
[17:04]	Latif Khalifa:	Simon, there is a severe resource leak somewhere. All is fine and well the first couple of hours, but things start detiroating rapidly on busy sims... I have to restart mine at day 3 usually.
[17:05]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Simon, next time you have us do a performance test you should frap it and post it to YouTube, as someone suggested.
[17:05]	Ashiri Sands:	lol
[17:05]	Arawn Spitteler:	With performance data
[17:05]	DogWomble Dollinger:	heh call it "what happens at an office hour"
[17:05]	DogWomble Dollinger:	boundto getmore atendees that way :)
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	Alright, well I'll bet everyone would be interested in a summary of the data on Tues, if possible.
[17:05]	Kaluura Boa:	* PUUURRRRZZZZ *
[17:05]	Simon Linden:	Latif - yeah, that's been around for a while. We need to track that down ... it's been really hard to make happen on our test regions
[17:05]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I couldn't quite see who suggested it. They got lost somewhere between the Pokemon and NAruto gestures.
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	or your conclusions/insights
[17:06]	Simon Linden:	Sure, I'll try and pull together a summary for next week
[17:06]	Ardy Lay:	Simon, host a Cake Walk.
[17:06]	Latif Khalifa:	Simon, I know, one of those difficult to repro cases in controlled environment
[17:06]	xstorm Radek:	i love to take you all to Aditi :-) for a test
[17:06]	Latif Khalifa:	and sims crash less, so problem is more obvious xD
[17:06]	Psi Merlin:	the lag spikes get longer over time -
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks everyone for coming.
[17:06]	Simon Linden:	Thanks again, I'm going to see what we recorded.
[17:06]	Simon Linden:	See you all next time
[17:06]	xstorm Radek:	a large number of avatars doing a sim crossing
[17:07]	Ardy Lay:	Hehe... See you later.

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