User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 07 02

Transcript

[16:00]	Elisha Richez:	OI OI !! simon
[16:00]	lonetorus Habilis:	and its affected by llwind()
[16:00]	Simon Linden:	hello
[16:00]	Ashiri Sands:	hi Simon
[16:00]	lonetorus Habilis:	for the randomness
[16:00]	Bronson Blackadder:	meeeow
[16:00]	xstorm Radek:	Hi Simon :-)
[16:00]	reddot99 Republic:	wow i forgot how slow the laptop was
[16:00]	xstorm Radek:	will i need to be good ?
[16:01]	xstorm Radek:	i see some one in back of me with a gun
[16:01]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[16:01]	DogWomble Dollinger:	aaah, that's better, i'm on the road to fixing up my blood to caffiene ratio
[16:02]	xstorm Radek:	Simon i was looking at that too
[16:02]	xstorm Radek:	thats one fine bit of scripting
[16:02]	Elisha Richez:	wuts up andrewz
[16:03]	Andrew Linden:	hello everyone
[16:03]	xstorm Radek:	as long as you do not tell Lonetorus i was poking at his script
[16:03]	lonetorus Habilis:	hey hey andrew
[16:03]	DogWomble Dollinger:	hey andrew
[16:03]	xstorm Radek:	hi Andrew :-)
[16:03]	Andrew Linden:	I think we may have a few other Linden's joining us today.
[16:03]	xstorm Radek:	Falcon is missing ?
[16:03]	xstorm Radek:	oooppss
[16:04]	Andrew Linden:	I believe Falcon plans on showing up. Maybe Lil Linden too.
[16:04]	xstorm Radek:	well im no good at keeping secrets lol
[16:04]	lonetorus Habilis:	hey seb
[16:04]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Heya
[16:04]	Slee Mayo:	andrew, what have you been hearing about the phys engine in havoc7 trashing out easy?
[16:04]	xstorm Radek:	yes there will be a good number of people showing up to day :-)
[16:05]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I got the thrilling news that Falcon is working on llCastRay :D
[16:05]	Andrew Linden:	So the server-1.40.2 roll happened and we've been getting some reports of problems yes.
[16:05]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I was geeking out about it all morning.
[16:05]	xstorm Radek:	hi Saijanai :-)
[16:05]	Simon Linden:	I saw a demo of that on Wednesday :)
[16:05]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	llCastRay?
[16:05]	Slee Mayo:	the phys engine, simon?
[16:05]	Andrew Linden:	The hot item right now is SVC-5927
[16:05]	Temp on	Rezzed objects get queued
[16:05]	Elisha Richez:	physics seem to freeze with only 20-50 phys cubes or so.
[16:05]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[16:06]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Hey REx
[16:06]	Andrew Linden:	which started as performance problems in combat regions
[16:06]	xstorm Radek:	we will fill this sim to day
[16:06]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Falcon!
[16:06]	Rex Cronon:	hi sebastean
[16:06]	Falcon Linden:	Elisha: That's just not true. I've rezzed hundreds of interpenetrating cubes and couldn't stall the simulator.
[16:06]	Andrew Linden:	and then bloated to also be about crashes, probably because they are happening in combat regions
[16:06]	xstorm Radek:	well hi Falcon what a great shock to see you at this great OH :-)
[16:06]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Saw one hot jira where rezzing was hitting the grey goo fence.
[16:06]	Falcon Linden:	Techwolf: Which we couldn't repro. You know who we need here? Maestro
[16:07]	Andrew Linden:	I heard about that one yesterday Techwolf, but then I heard that it was resolved
[16:07]	Elisha Richez:	not sure where u tested it but ive been watching it happen for a while now at the sandboxes and even NSCC sim that is on a faster server.
[16:07]	xstorm Radek:	yes i seen that a large number of temp rezzers have broken
[16:07]	Moon Metty:	hi Andrew, Simon, everyone :)
[16:07]	Simon Linden:	The grey goo fence is interesting ... one current theory is that some other performance improvement made an object that worked just under the fence now hit it
[16:07]	Falcon Linden:	Elisha: Sandboxes. Heh. Those things are always broken.
[16:07]	Simon Linden:	Hi Moon
[16:07]	Rex Cronon:	hi moon
[16:07]	Bronson Blackadder:	whats grey goo?
[16:08]	Elisha Richez:	indeed but NSCC is empty and fast till u drop about 50 phys cubes
[16:08]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... I'll bet the GGF problem was actgually a manifestation of SVC-5927
[16:08]	xstorm Radek:	they just need there script updated
[16:08]	Rex Cronon:	yesterday each bullet i was firing was giving me a grey goo message
[16:08]	lonetorus Habilis:	http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=GreyGooFence
[16:08]	xstorm Radek:	i think your right Andrew
[16:08]	reddot99 Republic:	want me to demonstrate svc 5927 quick for ya?
[16:08]	Simon Linden:	That's an interesting point, ANdrew. I wonder if the queue changes the GGF timing
[16:08]	Bronson Blackadder:	thanks
[16:08]	Falcon Linden:	reddot99: I can demonstrate it perfectly well.
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	oh yeah, that's right the GGF report was definitely about hitting the GGF. The failures say GGF explicitly. I forgot.
[16:09]	Aleric Inglewood:	*sets graphics to low*
[16:09]	Latif Khalifa:	there seem to be something broken about GFF, seen a lot of reports about it
[16:09]	reddot99 Republic:	i have my minigun on at the momen
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	SVC-5953 was the GGF issue
[16:09]	Grey goo	fence is too aggressive on 1.40.2 Server - Breaks content that works on 1.38.6!
[16:09]	Aleric Inglewood:	whispers: Hmm, better let the old men sit and we stand, chester.
[16:09]	xstorm Radek:	http://screenr.com/uim
[16:10]	Saijanai Kuhn:	/me mutters something about Father William
[16:10]	chester Danick:	ya
[16:10]	xstorm Radek:	simple video of the error seen by the script
[16:10]	chester Danick:	i have chairs
[16:10]	chester Danick:	lol
[16:10]	xstorm Radek:	i see some people are missing
[16:10]	Maestro Linden:	hey guys
[16:10]	Andrew Linden:	Falcon, you said maybe Lil was going to show up today. Do you still think that to be true?
[16:10]	xstorm Radek:	hi hi :-)
[16:10]	Moon Metty:	hey Maestro :)
[16:10]	DMC Zsigmond:	hi
[16:10]	Falcon Linden:	Andrew: Last I knew
[16:11]	Andrew Linden:	Ok. So the current hot item is SVC-5927.
[16:11]	Aleric Inglewood:	Hope this isn't in voice? Voice meetings start being annoying, since Linden Lab doesn't fix the voice problems on linux
[16:11]	Andrew Linden:	I offered to reconfig some regions if estate owners/managers asked
[16:11]	Rex Cronon:	no voice
[16:11]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	My biggest issue with voice is that it makes it much harder to follow/log/multitask (which I often do)
[16:12]	chester Danick:	nop
[16:12]	Andrew Linden:	however there are some reports of just bad simulator performance in combat regions
[16:12]	Falcon Linden:	Lil will not be able to make it due to...other broken things :)
[16:12]	Slee Mayo:	any region with lots of phys prim
[16:12]	xstorm Radek:	there will be more like that Andrew
[16:12]	Falcon Linden:	Let me cut to the chase on the 5927 issue.
[16:12]	reddot99 Republic:	new jessie worked fine, the time i was there, and iit was running 1.40
[16:13]	Falcon Linden:	There are two issues that I'm guessing conspired to cause this big problem
[16:13]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, I was hoping Lil would show up and make a statement about rollbacks to 1.38 or maybe timing of server-1.40.3 fixes, but I guess not.
[16:13]	Andrew Linden:	Go ahead Falcon.
[16:13]	CG Linden:	lil was side tracked, he might still show up if you ask him
[16:14]	CG Linden:	but rolling back would be, err, yuck ...
[16:14]	Falcon Linden:	(1) I may have been to aggressive in a particular design decision that causes objects that you rez when the physics is having trouble to not be added to the physics world until performance recovers
[16:14]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	/me hopes we can just go directly to 1.40.3
[16:14]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I agree, I hope we don't rollback.
[16:14]	Falcon Linden:	I'm not going to support a rollback. I might support a few regions going back, but not the grid.
[16:15]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Man, there sure are a lot of lindens here today...
[16:15]	Andrew Linden:	Wow, welcome CG and Maestro. This office hour is popular. Maybe I should be getting real work done while you all handle it ;-)
[16:15]	Falcon Linden:	(2) Terribly inefficient builds. This is at least 50% our fault and probably more because we haven't given you the tools to make combat efficient. I know. And I have good news about this for later in the s ession.
[16:15]	Slee Mayo:	#1 is true, we can't even try and save the sim by knocking the phys prim offworld, the instant your phys prim rezzes, it disappears
[16:15]	Falcon Linden:	Ahh, but what you CAN do
[16:15]	Falcon Linden:	is delete the prim
[16:15]	xstorm Radek:	no Trendone and many of the mainland sims are just fine and a little bug fix is all they need i bet
[16:15]	Andrew Linden:	Well, Falcon we shouldn't release a server that makes pre-existing content run slower, even if it is inefficient builds.
[16:15]	Falcon Linden:	Once I added this code to defer adds, I have never been able to get a sim into such a bad state I couldn't just delete the offending objects and have it recover
[16:15]	Rex Cronon:	sim might soon reach overload:)
[16:16]	Falcon Linden:	Andrew: We didn't. The content always ran slowly. Now it just pauses between slow runs :P
[16:16]	xstorm Radek:	a sim like this can handle 55 people or more
[16:16]	Slee Mayo:	i'm refering to grief in the sims..their phys prim they drop...we can't delete them
[16:16]	Slee Mayo:	we can only report and hope that a linden even shows up to remove them
[16:16]	Falcon Linden:	Right. But estate owners and lindens can. In the past, the sim would have crashed.
[16:16]	Xan Linden:	hi folks - can someone give me a specific time/region so i can look up some perf metrics on the Linden side?
[16:16]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	return by owner?
[16:17]	Xan Linden:	or better yet, put them in the pjira
[16:17]	xstorm Radek:	Slee what type of physic prims are they ?
[16:17]	Elisha Richez:	the standard replicating PN issued garbage xstorm
[16:17]	xstorm Radek:	do they have scrips ?
[16:17]	Slee Mayo:	20-30 phys prim will freeze phys and like falcon mentioned, you can't rez new phys prim(like sim cleaners) to remove them
[16:18]	Falcon Linden:	I've never been able to freeze physics with fewer than several hundred interpenetrating objects
[16:18]	Slee Mayo:	drop by one of the public sandboxes
[16:18]	Falcon Linden:	If you can give me an example object that will cause the sim to freeze from just 20-30, please do
[16:18]	xstorm Radek:	30 or 40 will not freez a sim
[16:18]	Elisha Richez:	take me to that sim falcon.....i gotta see that to believe it
[16:18]	Slee Mayo:	ok..
[16:18]	Rex Cronon:	xan. u can alway try rausch or sandbox weapons testing. those sims usually get plenty of "action":)
[16:18]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Falcom, get an alt and go to a sim with problems like Slee says.
[16:18]	reddot99 Republic:	would an avatar count as an object?
[16:18]	Falcon Linden:	No
[16:18]	Xan Linden:	thanx rex
[16:19]	xstorm Radek:	there has to be other ojects thats freezing the sim
[16:19]	Rex Cronon:	np:) usually any public sandbox gets griffed
[16:19]	Sindra Aquila:	would not penetrating loose phys prims have that effect of freezing when too many are in air freeze physics too?
[16:20]	Aleric Inglewood:	Freezing sounds like swapping... or else it would have to give everything a fair share of CPU. But how do 40 prims cause a sim to go out of memory?
[16:20]	Falcon Linden:	Okay, this is not productive. So let me simply say that we recognize there is a problem affecting some sims and we are working to fix it as soon as possible in the most efficient way.
[16:20]	Bronson Blackadder:	try setting a hollow shere inside a smaller hollow sphere inside another smaller hollow shere so on and so on.. make them all phyiscal
[16:20]	Falcon Linden:	Bronson: No, don't.
[16:20]	xstorm Radek:	i will not say to much about physics but i do know much of the time its user side thats the problem
[16:20]	Bronson Blackadder:	sim crawls to a standstill
[16:20]	Falcon Linden:	Bronson: Because if you do and complain it hurts performance, I'll ignore you :)
[16:20]	Dahlia Trimble:	lol
[16:20]	Elisha Richez:	/me agrees with bronson
[16:20]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:21]	Moon Metty:	:)
[16:21]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[16:21]	Bronson Blackadder:	but that was the only thing that I was able to do that caused a near crash
[16:21]	Sindra Aquila:	is the rumour that neill life viewers can cause phusycs to stop true?
[16:21]	Liisa Runo:	yes
[16:21]	Elisha Richez:	yep
[16:22]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Any viewer that "select" all phycicils object will frezze it.
[16:22]	xstorm Radek:	i have not seen that
[16:22]	Falcon Linden:	Techwolf: Indeed
[16:22]	Sindra Aquila:	is there yet a detection by owner poaaiblew?
[16:22]	reddot99 Republic:	no, sindra, thats called a selection based intercepter
[16:22]	Simon Linden:	what's that rumor?
[16:22]	Falcon Linden:	Oh, and by the way, if you just select the offending objects, the sim should recover (at least it does in my tests)
[16:22]	Liisa Runo:	and many other clients too, they automatically select all physical prims in specified range
[16:22]	Slee Mayo:	another prob that's still in effect as we speak..sandbox newcomb has less than 1k prim in it, no lag, yet no one can move their av..you can spin, doubleclick tp, but not move
[16:22]	Falcon Linden:	you don't even have to delete them. Just keep them selected until you can do something about it
[16:22]	Falcon Linden:	(Obviously not a solution, just a tip in the meantime)
[16:22]	xstorm Radek:	:-)
[16:23]	Sindra Aquila:	yes, but is the viewer detectable by a sim owner?
[16:23]	Andrew Linden:	Neillife must have a super-selection tool that can temporarily eliminate the physics lag by freezing every object.
[16:23]	Elisha Richez:	it is if you know how to analyse packets with wireshark Sindra
[16:23]	Sindra Aquila:	i dont
[16:24]	Rex Cronon:	quite a few people ask for lsl functions/events that can detect when the prim they r is is selected, and by whom
[16:24]	Sindra Aquila:	can a material be added, say putty, with very high friction?
[16:24]	Simon Linden:	We've talked before about blocking selections based on permissions or estate controls too since it can be abused like that
[16:24]	Latif Khalifa:	it's not difficult to do with regular viewer, hit ctr-3 and draw rectagle about area you want to stop phyics in
[16:25]	Liisa Runo:	Andrew was intrested in making selected - event to use to detect people who grief our vehicles by selecting them
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, there are reports of frozen avatars, like in newcomb.
[16:25]	Falcon Linden:	Sindra: I've added that feature in a private build I'm hoping to ship someday around 1.44 :)
[16:25]	Latif Khalifa:	Simon, that's a wrong solutin IMHO. Selecting is useful for seeing objects
[16:25]	Multi Gadget	v1.58.0: /me by Timeless Prototype
[16:25]	Sindra Aquila:	excellent, thanks
[16:25]	Latif Khalifa:	object details
[16:25]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Hey DMC :) Good to see you again.
[16:25]	Latif Khalifa:	number of prims, when you want to buy them etc
[16:26]	DMC Zsigmond:	Hi Sebastean, it's been eons ;)
[16:26]	reddot99 Republic:	also as far as combat sims are concerned, almost everything that is rezzed is identical to this bullet, scipt wise
[16:26]	Simon Linden:	Latif - agreed, there isn't really an obvious solution to the problem
[16:26]	Rex Cronon:	is usefull to select prims, but don't stop them. especially if is a vehicle
[16:26]	Latif Khalifa:	Why cannot it be made that selection affects physics only when selectee has edit right?
[16:26]	xstorm Radek:	i must admit i did do a test on Aditi to freez 55 avatars with a scripted item
[16:26]	Falcon Linden:	Latif: /that/ would be a good idea. But I'm sure changing that will break something somewhere...
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	right Latif, that needs to get done.
[16:26]	Bronson Blackadder:	well tehre was 55 avatars
[16:26]	Bronson Blackadder:	there was half the freeze right there
[16:27]	Latif Khalifa:	Falcon, I don't think it would break more than it would fix
[16:27]	xstorm Radek:	i do not think to many people know how to do that yet
[16:27]	Falcon Linden:	Yeah, but which people are going to complain loudest? The ones whose stuff got fixed or the ones whose stuff got broken? :)
[16:27]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I can't think of anything that depends on that behavior.
[16:27]	Aleric Inglewood:	Edit right? Or.. 'anyone can move'
[16:27]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[16:27]	xstorm Radek:	broken
[16:27]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	In fact, every case I've seen has been someone trying to prevent others from affecting physics by selection, usually by encasing it in another prim.
[16:27]	xstorm Radek:	i will fix my stuff its not hard
[16:28]	Latif Khalifa:	I cannot imagine what could break if select didn't affect physics of an object the one selecting it doesn't have permissions for
[16:28]	Aleric Inglewood:	Latif: the "anyone can move" ?
[16:28]	Sindra Aquila:	i can, but better not say
[16:28]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Sailers would LOVE for that to be fix for sailing events.
[16:28]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Same for llTargetOmega, actually, though that's client-side in some cases.
[16:28]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, well I've got an agenda item to talk about:
[16:29]	Latif Khalifa:	Sindra please do
[16:29]	Sindra Aquila:	cheats
[16:29]	xstorm Radek:	Sindra best not ;-)
[16:29]	Andrew Linden:	I'm going to try to talk to the #deploy team to see if they can make it easier for estate owners to upgrade or degrade their server version
[16:30]	Aleric Inglewood:	It would stop allowing to select all griefer prims that are halting a server, in order to let a server recover :p
[16:30]	Andrew Linden:	we've talked about how to do it, and there have been a few good ideas put on the table
[16:30]	Techwolf Lupindo:	A web page for estate owners, choose sim version, then restart there sim.
[16:30]	Latif Khalifa:	Andew, I don't think that's a good idea, you don't want scripts to work in some places and brak horribly in others
[16:30]	xstorm Radek:	Andrew just do not ask the Ontyne to do it lol
[16:30]	Latif Khalifa:	big -100 on that one
[16:30]	Andrew Linden:	the one I like is to have a "stable" server and a "release candidate" that is updated about weekly
[16:31]	Elisha Richez:	selecting griefer prims only stops them from being pushed out of sim making things worse if they are replicating.
[16:31]	xstorm Radek:	weekly OMG!!
[16:31]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Now, that idea I like.
[16:31]	reddot99 Republic:	that sounds reasonable, andrew,
[16:31]	Andrew Linden:	once the RC were to become relatively stable we'd upgrade it to be "stable" and roll any estate owners who hadn't yet moved to RC
[16:31]	xstorm Radek:	Andrew are you trying to kill the testers ?
[16:31]	Latif Khalifa:	with scripting serialization changes... and new functions... for example now if someone decided to go back to 1.38, 1.40 scripts would break in that region
[16:32]	Moon Metty:	is that like moving the beta grid to aditi?
[16:32]	Techwolf Lupindo:	That the estate owners to deal with.
[16:32]	Andrew Linden:	I'm going to ask the #deploy group to see if they think they could do it.
[16:32]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Once Andrew explained it, I think he meant rolling back and forth between RC and stable versions.
[16:32]	Moon Metty:	to agni, sorry
[16:32]	reddot99 Republic:	there are no 1.40 specific scripts
[16:32]	Latif Khalifa:	Seb, that could work
[16:32]	Ambroff Linden:	Moon: pretty much, yeah
[16:32]	Latif Khalifa:	red, they are
[16:32]	Latif Khalifa:	there are a couple of new functions in 1.40
[16:32]	Moon Metty:	i've played with the thought too
[16:32]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... it occurs to me now that it would be hard to include new script functions in that unless we had some sort of versioning.
[16:33]	reddot99 Republic:	what are they?
[16:33]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Moon! Why didn't I see you! Welcome back :D
[16:33]	xstorm Radek:	Andrew are you talking about automated updates ?
[16:33]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	if there would be some documentation on what you stand to gain or lose iwth upgrade or downgrade makes it simpler to decide
[16:33]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	?
[16:33]	Moon Metty:	Seb :)
[16:33]	Techwolf Lupindo:	haveing an RC estate oners can use will help make content update easers. And new content can be make to use new features that can be ready to sell on the full rollout.
[16:33]	Simon Linden:	Anyone that uses new script functions has to deal with server versions anyway, unless you wait until the new one is fully deployed
[16:33]	reddot99 Republic:	seperate the scripting engine from physics engine in updates?
[16:33]	Andrew Linden:	no not automated updates xstorm, but a faster candidate cycle, and an optional version for estate owners
[16:33]	Andrew Linden:	but we'd have to add an easy tool for estate owners to select their region
[16:34]	xstorm Radek:	ok thank you
[16:34]	Moon Metty:	VWR-20031
[16:34]	Automatic download	of syntax-table
[16:34]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	That would make it easier for sim owners to test their content if they have a lot of it on a sim, if they can't get it added to Aditi.
[16:34]	Andrew Linden:	we know it is possible to run a "heterogeneous grid", I think the #deploy team should use that capability
[16:34]	xstorm Radek:	Andrew what about people that rent a full mainland sim ? have we lost all say over our sims ?
[16:35]	Andrew Linden:	good question xstorm
[16:35]	Falcon Linden:	Anyone want some good news?
[16:35]	Andrew Linden:	I think initially mainland owners would be out of luck, however in the future maybe some mechanism could be provided
[16:35]	reddot99 Republic:	that'd have to be determined by customer service i'd say
[16:35]	Latif Khalifa:	/me once had a full mainland sim too, before the forced exile
[16:35]	xstorm Radek:	if Leo Linden is gone i will have no more support
[16:35]	Rex Cronon:	u don't have to ask for good news:)
[16:35]	Andrew Linden:	like a unanimous parcel owner resolution or something
[16:35]	Sindra Aquila:	maybe depending if most sims are on h7
[16:36]	Andrew Linden:	too hard to do at this stage
[16:36]	Falcon Linden:	Rex: Really? Because it seems like most people prefer complaining :)
[16:36]	Ashiri Sands:	I like good news
[16:36]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:36]	CG Linden:	Ambroff needs to get the new region conductor done first a<¡
[16:36]	xstorm Radek:	and talking to Ontyne live chat is very bad
[16:36]	Bronson Blackadder:	Offtyne
[16:36]	xstorm Radek:	OMG!! its CG well hi old friend
[16:36]	Falcon Linden:	I've put up 3 regions on the beta grid that support scripted raycasting.
[16:36]	Andrew Linden:	well CG, this was Ambroff's idea.
[16:36]	Sindra Aquila:	well, if most are allready on h7 then the good news is no change
[16:36]	CG Linden:	I know a<¡
[16:36]	Rex Cronon:	nope. they desperation cries r mistaken for complaining:(
[16:36]	Sindra Aquila:	or rather on where i went
[16:36]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Falcon, your post in JIRA this morning made me giddy :)
[16:37]	reddot99 Republic:	whats the names falcon?
[16:37]	Ashiri Sands:	ah, i was hoping for news on mesh
[16:37]	Falcon Linden:	Ashiri: So was I?
[16:37]	Falcon Linden:	:P
[16:37]	Maestro Linden:	oi, more details please falcon. what are the raycasting functions?
[16:37]	xstorm Radek:	great to see CG after all this time the man knows every thing about a data base system
[16:37]	Maestro Linden:	(er, what's the syntax, I mean)
[16:37]	Falcon Linden:	llCastRay. It's obviously not in your viewers yet, but here's the rough syntax. I'll post a better description on wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/llcastray or something. Andrew, can I post it there? :P
[16:37]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	SVC-5381
[16:37]	Create llCastRay	for raycasting operations
[16:37]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	is there a link where the beta functions can be found?
[16:38]	xstorm Radek:	its starting to feel like old home week :-)
[16:38]	Rex Cronon:	what does it return. a list of all objects/avatars that it intersects. how long is the list?
[16:38]	Falcon Linden:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlCastRay
[16:39]	Falcon Linden:	First, this is a very early prototype. I expect it will crash. Possibly frequently. It hasn't ever crashed for me, but then I know what it can do already :P
[16:39]	Xan Linden:	falcon - that link is showing placeholder for me
[16:39]	Falcon Linden:	That's because I haven't written it yet :)
[16:39]	Techwolf Lupindo:	/me lol ""Placeholder for llCastRay! ""
[16:39]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:39]	Falcon Linden:	Second, it is currently unthrottled except that if sim performance overall is low, it will not work. It will return an error code (details to follow tonight on that wiki page) that you can use to learn how to handle the error codes
[16:40]	Falcon Linden:	Once I see some examples of what people want to do with it, I'll determine appropriate throttles
[16:40]	Falcon Linden:	Right now I'm thinking four calls to llCastRay per linkset per frame.
[16:40]	reddot99 Republic:	whats the sim names?
[16:40]	Falcon Linden:	Oatmeal something... I'll get back to you :P
[16:40]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Falcon, have you had a chance to read my replies to the JIRA?
[16:40]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Looking forward to detail on that page, if it what I think it is, I know one content creater taht will be intrested in it.
[16:40]	Elisha Richez:	mmmm oatmeal
[16:40]	Falcon Linden:	Sebastean: Yeah, but think about them? Nope, not yet
[16:41]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	lol, ok
[16:41]	Bronson Blackadder:	cream of wheat
[16:41]	Bronson Blackadder:	yummy
[16:41]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	With honey.
[16:41]	Elisha Richez:	XD
[16:41]	Falcon Linden:	Also, as it stands, all hits will be returned according to the selected filters specified in the call
[16:41]	Falcon Linden:	you'll be able to reject any combination (except all) of: agents, physical prims, nonphysical prims, and terrain
[16:41]	Falcon Linden:	oo, btw, seated agents == agents for raycasts. Yay.
[16:42]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:42]	Falcon Linden:	But when we release it, we will limit the hits returned
[16:42]	Falcon Linden:	Right now I'm thinking just the first hit would be most useful.
[16:42]	Falcon Linden:	(And significantly faster for both the scripts and the physics engine)
[16:42]	Rex Cronon:	if u could specify that u want only hits with avatars...
[16:42]	Falcon Linden:	Rex: You can
[16:43]	Falcon Linden:	reject physical and nonphysical prims and terrain
[16:43]	Falcon Linden:	all that's left are avatars
[16:43]	reddot99 Republic:	reject phantom?
[16:43]	Rex Cronon:	cool:)
[16:43]	Ardy Lay:	Bye bye shields.
[16:43]	Falcon Linden:	ah, right. Phantom and volume detect, as well as trees, will never be detected
[16:43]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	One of my main concerns was the option of hitting phantom prims, be they physical or non. I feel there should be a way of filtering those out.
[16:44]	Falcon Linden:	if there's a big call for the ability to detect them, I could add that, but I don't see a ton of need so I haven't.
[16:44]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Ah, so we won't be able to use llCastRay to detect phantom?
[16:44]	Falcon Linden:	no
[16:44]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I can imagine a few instances where it would be handy.
[16:44]	Rex Cronon:	do u know how many attacks r wasted on people that r in ghost mode:)
[16:44]	Falcon Linden:	Write them up. But note that if I allow phantoms, they'll be treated the same as volume detect. So it'll be both or none
[16:44]	reddot99 Republic:	what about the volume detect seated avatars?
[16:44]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Mainly, uses that aren't directly related to navigation
[16:45]	Falcon Linden:	Rex: I /think/ a phantom avatar should get detected. Not sure, though. Try it out and let me know!@
[16:45]	reddot99 Republic:	will those be detected?
[16:45]	Falcon Linden:	See, this is why I'm putting it up on the grid tonight!
[16:45]	Rex Cronon:	u can detected. but u don't know if is phantom
[16:45]	Falcon Linden:	Because I'd never have considered "seated volume detect avatars"
[16:45]	Falcon Linden:	Ah, RIGHT. So, before this is released I want to add a few things to llGetObjectDetails
[16:46]	Falcon Linden:	e.g., the ability to determine if a key belongs to an agent, a physical prim, etc.
[16:46]	reddot99 Republic:	group? :p
[16:46]	Liisa Runo:	sounds cool Falcon
[16:46]	xstorm Radek:	what about light and shadow rendering will that effect this ?
[16:46]	Falcon Linden:	Not at all
[16:46]	xstorm Radek:	ok good :-)
[16:46]	Falcon Linden:	One interesting option I'm considering is the ability to specify up to 8 endpoints for a call to llCastRay. All start at the same place but end in different places.
[16:47]	Liisa Runo:	realiable way to tell if object is physicall is very welcome
[16:47]	xstorm Radek:	up to 8 ?
[16:47]	Falcon Linden:	It's an optimization that would allow you to do more than 4 ray casts from a linkset without killing performance
[16:47]	Falcon Linden:	xstorm: 8 sounds like a reasonable number. Right everyone? 8? No? 7.3?
[16:47]	reddot99 Republic:	a way to do random rays cast in a cone would be nice
[16:47]	Maestro Linden:	Falcon, there's already a (hacky) way to tell if a uuid belongs to an agent,
[16:48]	Maestro Linden:	at least if the agent's in the same sim
[16:48]	xstorm Radek:	7.3
[16:48]	Falcon Linden:	Maestro: And I HATE hacks.
[16:48]	Rex Cronon:	if i want to push something i want to know if is physical or not, else is a waste of energy
[16:48]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Popular way to get around limits, drop another script in the prim.
[16:48]	Falcon Linden:	Techwolf: Not on this one.
[16:48]	Maestro Linden:	llGetAgentSize(key uuid)==ZERO_VECTOR
[16:48]	Falcon Linden:	The limit will be at the linkset level
[16:48]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	/me would love a normal way to check the agent.
[16:48]	Falcon Linden:	doesn't matter how many prims or how many scripts. Four calls per linkset :)
[16:48]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I usually use if UUID == llGetOwnerKey(UUID)
[16:49]	Liisa Runo:	me too
[16:49]	Maestro Linden:	ah heh that's true, Sebastean
[16:49]	Falcon Linden:	I like the idea of a way that isn't a hack, but meh
[16:49]	Falcon Linden:	glad there's a workaround if I don't get time to add that due to, say, SVC-5927/
[16:49]	Temp on	Rezzed objects get queued
[16:49]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Since we're on the subject of keys, getting something like llMatchGroup would be great.
[16:49]	Falcon Linden:	Yeah, I saw that request. I'm not your general lsl guy. Sorry :)
[16:50]	reddot99 Republic:	rex, seated volume detect avatars are the base of any armored vehicle in combat sims
[16:50]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Expensive ll calls to check for a flag needs to go away. Have ll function that check for flags.
[16:50]	Rex Cronon:	i realize that reddot99
[16:50]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	It was more just a topic for general discussion, don't worry Falcon, I didn't have my sights set on you ;)
[16:50]	Falcon Linden:	You'll be able to make an armored vehicle by agreeing to play by rules, sitting inside of a vehicle, and getting the first ray hit :)
[16:51]	xstorm Radek:	looks like i need to call in the RPG group to aditi to test guns and all that gain lol
[16:51]	Gawd Naxos:	GREETINGS FROM RUSSIA
[16:51]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	is there any documentation online to what other functions are coming? the llraycast will be really useful for combat systems as well
[16:51]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[16:51]	Falcon Linden:	Yes, and then you can all stop rezzing bloody bullets
[16:51]	reddot99 Republic:	falcon, the raycasts have to not have damage enabled on hem,
[16:51]	reddot99 Republic:	them
[16:51]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I can write up an example of how to simulate bullet speed too, for those worried about laser effect.
[16:51]	Falcon Linden:	reddot99: Use a meter system. Get creative.
[16:51]	Elisha Richez:	gawd's tag says hes using neilliife
[16:51]	Gawd Naxos:	FALCON <3
[16:51]	Falcon Linden:	I will post some docs to http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlCastRay
[16:52]	Simon Linden:	Gazanfer - no, there's no list. I don't know of any others in the works right now
[16:52]	Bronson Blackadder:	yayy
[16:52]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	ty simon
[16:52]	Gawd Naxos:	what is neilife ?
[16:52]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	this is an exciting new feature
[16:52]	reddot99 Republic:	meters dont send you home on death, and if they do, it needs to be setup so it can do tons of llteleport agent home
[16:52]	Falcon Linden:	And I expect to come in on tuesday and see tons of awesome things there. Preferably ones that are respectful of others and don't kill the sim performance intentionally
[16:53]	Falcon Linden:	Btw, on that, if you kill the sim performance intentionally, I'll add code to the cfunction that checks who the creator was and disable it for you :)
[16:53]	Moon Metty:	:)
[16:53]	Gawd Naxos:	SIMEN GIVE ME YOUR ACCONT OR ILL HACK U? IM A HAXXOR
[16:53]	Gawd Naxos:	simon*
[16:53]	Latif Khalifa:	lol
[16:53]	Bronson Blackadder:	yayy
[16:53]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	currently i am facing problems with getting a transparent or half transparent texture on the face of a prim which is media on a prim enbled.. the alt image doesnt work and websites dontt understand tra nsparency so there is no way i can have a trasparent windowor something on the face
[16:53]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Don't you just hate it when typos steal your thunder?
[16:53]	Gawd Naxos:	good bye from russia
[16:53]	Falcon Linden:	Gazanfer: I know nothing about that, sorry
[16:53]	Maestro Linden:	Falcon, if object_limit>1 on llCastRay, does the ray continue on a straight path after hitting the first object?
[16:54]	Maestro Linden:	or does it ricochet around? :)
[16:54]	Falcon Linden:	hahahahaha
[16:54]	Falcon Linden:	You want ricochet? You get up to 3 bounces in a frame :)
[16:54]	Falcon Linden:	cast ray, get first hit and normal, reflect, cast second ray...
[16:54]	xstorm Radek:	lets not call it a hack but a small way around a bigger fix
[16:54]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	lazer pinball!
[16:54]	Gawd Naxos:	ambroff..
[16:54]	Gawd Naxos:	do u want to be my flower ?
[16:54]	Gawd Naxos:	my wife, my friend, and my linden ?
[16:54]	reddot99 Republic:	ricochet would be an interesting flag, especially if the veiwer can see raycasts
[16:55]	Falcon Linden:	no, it's not a flag. It's you doing some extra calculation :)
[16:55]	Ambroff Linden:	lol
[16:55]	Gawd Naxos:	HE SAID LOL
[16:55]	Falcon Linden:	you call llCastRay, get the results, and cast again. You get up to 4 per frame, so 3 bounces :)
[16:55]	Gawd Naxos:	this flower is amazing !
[16:55]	Gawd Naxos:	it can TALK and SAY LOL
[16:55]	xstorm Radek:	did some one say lag test ? or load test ?
[16:55]	Falcon Linden:	And no, the viewer can't see raycasts. I expect you'll use particles for your visuals
[16:55]	reddot99 Republic:	actually, can you make it possible to see where rays are cast?
[16:56]	Bronson Blackadder:	hey that would be cool
[16:56]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	sound like a dream
[16:56]	Falcon Linden:	Sadly, no. Trying to do that would get this delayed into the unforeseeable future :)
[16:56]	Simon Linden:	and trigger laser sounds :)
[16:56]	xstorm Radek:	the viewer will some day see it
[16:56]	Bronson Blackadder:	with a partical explosion at eth end
[16:56]	Bronson Blackadder:	the
[16:56]	Ambroff Linden:	I like it!
[16:56]	Gawd Naxos:	hello, is someone knows the feature : llRetrieveMyVaginaFromLostAndFound();
[16:56]	Gawd Naxos:	pls
[16:56]	Andrew Linden:	It occurs to me that the ray-trace could be communicated to the viewr via a selective ViewerEffect message
[16:57]	Andrew Linden:	new feature in the viewer, but not very hard
[16:57]	Falcon Linden:	Andrew: Huh. We should chat about that when the grid isn't burning down :)
[16:57]	CG Linden:	can I blow up something? where?
[16:57]	Andrew Linden:	You couldn't get every trace though... only some lower frequency
[16:57]	Falcon Linden:	Let's wait till we have client side physics and scripting
[16:57]	Falcon Linden:	:)
[16:57]	Gawd Naxos:	this is bored discussion
[16:57]	xstorm Radek:	gawd grow up
[16:57]	Gawd Naxos:	lets talk about my vagina
[16:57]	Latif Khalifa:	So many Lidnens around you you allow this griefer Gawd to use knowsn viewer crashers?
[16:58]	Andrew Linden:	Remember Falcon, we're trying to do LESS stuff these days. I forget too.
[16:58]	Falcon Linden:	My viewer is doing just fine. :)
[16:58]	Gawd Naxos:	yep
[16:58]	DogWomble Dollinger:	mine just crashed
[16:58]	Gawd Naxos:	his viewer is fine
[16:58]	Latif Khalifa:	he did not crash you on purpose
[16:58]	Moon Metty:	i just totally froze
[16:58]	Gawd Naxos:	THAT A FAKE
[16:58]	Falcon Linden:	Andrew: Right. So instead of adding that now, we'll wait until we have client side physics and scripts. I didn't say WHEN that would happen :)
[16:59]	xstorm Radek:	Gawd do you have any upper level imput to this meeting ?
[16:59]	Andrew Linden:	I'm going to have to leave on-time today.
[16:59]	Liisa Runo:	hes using neil life, he dont have anything the grid needs
[16:59]	xstorm Radek:	thank you Andrew
[17:00]	Bronson Blackadder:	thanks andrew :)
[17:00]	Aleric Inglewood:	Someone played an invalid animation a7b1669c-fa67-0242-4136-79b7a8a3daa0
[17:00]	Bronson Blackadder:	this was a good meeting
[17:00]	DMC Zsigmond:	thanks Andrew
[17:00]	Falcon Linden:	All right, remember to check wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlCastRay for more tonight
[17:00]	Slee Mayo:	pitty it didn't have any effect
[17:00]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	cast some rays please
[17:00]	Gawd Naxos:	thanks ANDREW
[17:00]	Bronson Blackadder:	thanks to all teh other Lindens taht shown up
[17:00]	Gawd Naxos:	thanks FALCON
[17:00]	Elisha Richez:	hes using a crasher
[17:00]	Elisha Richez:	that is Gawd, Aleric
[17:00]	BetaCentauri Aeon:	bye
[17:00]	Slee Mayo:	cya andrew
[17:00]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone for coming and the good conversation
[17:00]	Latif Khalifa:	gawd is using crashers here, and 5 lindens don't want to ban his arse
[17:00]	Gawd Naxos:	thanks WEIRD FLOWER
[17:00]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	and ty for the excellent feature
[17:00]	Sindra Aquila:	thanks andrew
[17:00]	Falcon Linden:	I've gotta go grab Andrew before he leaves the office
[17:00]	Gnumessiah Aabye:	:)
[17:00]	Falcon Linden:	so cheers and enjoy your weekend!
[17:00]	Gawd Naxos:	GOOD BVYE FROM RUSSIA
[17:00]	Slee Mayo:	i think andrew is married
[17:00]	Gawd Naxos:	COME AND DRINK SOME VODKA WITH ME
[17:01]	Elisha Richez:	can somebody please ban Gawd?
[17:01]	Sindra Aquila:	bye falcon, thanks
[17:01]	xstorm Radek:	well im going back to work
[17:01]	Elisha Richez:	ffs
[17:01]	Gawd Naxos:	andrew is so fat
[17:01]	Latif Khalifa:	they don't are apparently
[17:01]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	i wannt a way ti have transpaency on media on a prim
[17:01]	Gawd Naxos:	he should come in my country
[17:01]	Latif Khalifa:	incredible
[17:01]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	wahhhhh
[17:01]	Aleric Inglewood:	and d23075e5-98c4-a039-32b0-344a3f23da2f and 55dbe9b1-cdf3-4240-431d-3731a9672205 that is quite a few 'accidental' invalid animations
[17:01]	xstorm Radek:	looks like i need to look at rezzers yet again
[17:01]	Gawd Naxos:	and take SOME VODKA
[17:01]	Bronson Blackadder:	Gazanger
[17:01]	Bronson Blackadder:	you can
[17:01]	chester Danick:	what was that
[17:01]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	how
[17:02]	Bronson Blackadder:	I just select teh same face as teh media is on
[17:02]	Slee Mayo:	express elevator
[17:02]	xstorm Radek:	'plus i need to find some one to blame it on
[17:02]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	and?
[17:02]	Latif Khalifa:	well we can all send ARs perhaps the governance team will do something about it
[17:02]	Bronson Blackadder:	and add transpancey
[17:02]	Liisa Runo:	who ever orbited the cobybot, thank you
[17:02]	Bronson Blackadder:	transparency
[17:02]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	thats bot wat i mean
[17:02]	Slee Mayo:	yw
[17:02]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	if u do that the media wioll be transparenct too
[17:02]	Bronson Blackadder:	is that not what you want?
[17:02]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	i want a "hole in the wall"
[17:02]	xstorm Radek:	ok laterz all
[17:03]	Psi Merlin:	Bye /all
[17:03]	reddot99 Republic:	random crashs
[17:03]	Ashiri Sands:	cya xstorm
[17:03]	lonetorus Habilis:	ah
[17:03]	lonetorus Habilis:	i missed the greifer
[17:03]	lonetorus Habilis:	...and the meeting :/
[17:03]	Elisha Richez:	wb lone
[17:03]	Elisha Richez:	lol
[17:03]	Gawd Naxos:	someone orbited my vagina
[17:03]	lonetorus Habilis:	/me reads back in log
[17:04]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	ok orgy is over
[17:04]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	back back
[17:04]	Ashiri Sands:	you got a lot of catching up lone. =^_^=
[17:04]	Gazanfer Jehangir:	cya all

Generated with SLog Wikifier