User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 07 16

Transcript

[16:01]	Simon Linden:	Hello
[16:01]	Sindra Aquila:	hello simon
[16:01]	reddot99 Republic:	hey simon
[16:01]	Moon Metty:	Ardy in the private chair
[16:01]	Simon Linden:	Hi ... let's see, there are a few annoucments for server releases
[16:02]	Simon Linden:	We're looking to do a pilot roll of 1.40.4 next week on Tuesday. I think the plan is to keep it going for a week before rolling further
[16:02]	Youri Ashton:	hello all
[16:02]	Youri Ashton:	hey simon
[16:02]	Ardy Lay:	Moon, people bitch about me eating their frame rate so I give them the opportunity to keep me off-camera.
[16:02]	Simon Linden:	Yesterday we did some tests with a combat region and the results were actually pretty good
[16:03]	Moon Metty:	cool
[16:03]	reddot99 Republic:	simon, can regions still be added to pilot rolls?
[16:03]	Moon Metty:	lol Ardy
[16:03]	Yuu Nakamichi:	Moon :)
[16:03]	Moon Metty:	Yuu :)
[16:03]	Simon Linden:	I think so ... IM Oskar about it, or there may be a jira somewhere to add your region to the list
[16:03]	Youri Ashton:	simon, did Oskar already talk with you about teh sim problems I mentioned?
[16:03]	Yuu Nakamichi:	lol hi Simon :)
[16:03]	Sindra Aquila:	has this viewer the means to set another material with with very hugh friction yet?
[16:03]	Jack Abraham:	Documentation on adding to regions here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Agni_Pilot_Regions
[16:03]	Yuu Nakamichi:	Hi Psi
[16:04]	Simon Linden:	Thanks Jack
[16:04]	Sindra Aquila:	has this viewer the means to set another material with with very hugh friction yet?
[16:04]	Slee Mayo:	whispers: !stop
[16:04]	Simon Linden:	I don't think anything's been done yet to expand the choices for friction or resitution (bounciness)
[16:05]	Simon Linden:	I know Falcon was going to add some messaging for other features, and was planning on leaving room for more settings like that, but I'm pretty sure they're not ready to use yet
[16:05]	Dzonatas Sol:	What is high friction useful for? Wheels?
[16:05]	Simon Linden:	Youri - no, I haven't talked to Oskar yet
[16:06]	Youri Ashton:	ok, he will talk to you, i mentioned the problems to him as well
[16:06]	Youri Ashton:	reminds me... need to send that notecard to him as promised
[16:07]	Sindra Aquila:	does anynone know how a rezz enhacer works, it seems possible to have a prim of sorts in a hud that is supposed to make arrows rezz faster>?
[16:07]	Moon Metty:	oh?
[16:07]	Sindra Aquila:	yes
[16:07]	reddot99 Republic:	that just means severald scripts are doing rezzing, not associated with main core
[16:08]	Simon Linden:	Hmm, I'd be curious about how that's supposed to work
[16:08]	Sindra Aquila:	and more, it begins look like there is a group that knows more about sl physics then linden lab seems to know, i wonder how and where they get all that info
[16:08]	Youri Ashton:	k, thats done
[16:08]	reddot99 Republic:	this shotgun uses the same thing
[16:08]	Slee Mayo:	i'd say, but i would be contributing against the TOS and get suspended again
[16:08]	Simon Linden:	The one way I know to speed things up is actually rez the projectile earlier, and 'fire' it after it's been in-world already.
[16:09]	reddot99 Republic:	simon, thats a lot more laggy than simply rezzing at speed
[16:09]	Liisa Runo:	people get info by experimenting, it is hard work, and some stuff is kept secret in the small groups
[16:09]	Slee Mayo:	well said
[16:09]	Sindra Aquila:	it is worn on top hud, seems to have no scripts or a hideen one, someone aor a group apparently has some iondo somehow about ophysics not known even to lindens
[16:09]	xstorm Radek:	drats
[16:09]	xstorm Radek:	rez
[16:10]	Youri Ashton:	[15:06] Bronson Blackadder: Youri Andrews OH is next, we can talk him into a way to bounce vehicles off banlines :)
[16:10]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:10]	Bronson Blackadder:	thanks youri
[16:10]	Slee Mayo:	andrew is in south central on vacation
[16:10]	xstorm Radek:	hi hi
[16:10]	Bronson Blackadder:	thats twice today you quoted me
[16:10]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:10]	Youri Ashton:	Think a good topic, i found out that a lot of banlines make it hell for vehicles
[16:10]	Youri Ashton:	the hard way, even makes you crash
[16:11]	Youri Ashton:	(hey bron and xstorm btw :P )
[16:11]	reddot99 Republic:	though, thats how impulse based weapons work, by rezzing and keeping a constant force on the bullet
[16:11]	Alisha Matova:	yes, it would be much nicer if ban lines bounced vehciles off rather than return them
[16:11]	xstorm Radek:	Simon you may hate me ... what about Physic mesh water ?
[16:11]	Sindra Aquila:	there is something else, is there a way to put some sort of second script in an object that causes the main script to be faster or has higher priority?
[16:11]	reddot99 Republic:	lol, fluid dynamics
[16:12]	xstorm Radek:	i know Reddot people are going to hate me
[16:13]	reddot99 Republic:	actually, more that i doubt havok is capable of that
[16:13]	Youri Ashton:	good question xstor
[16:13]	Youri Ashton:	m
[16:13]	Simon Linden:	It would be a lot of fun to do more with water, have true buoyancy, waves and such. But that's going to be way far down the feature list and practically not going to get attention
[16:13]	xstorm Radek:	but think of it this way if a person wish to have a stream or a river in a sim they use prims
[16:13]	Liisa Runo:	now kinky people have their own continent, maybe we should build another continent for banline people ;)
[16:13]	Kaluura Boa:	=^_^=
[16:13]	Alisha Matova:	BanLandia
[16:14]	xstorm Radek:	and very little has been done with water in ages
[16:14]	Bronson Blackadder:	Banland
[16:14]	Moon Metty:	water must take a lot of power to simulate
[16:14]	Youri Ashton:	sur would be fun to see ships actually float without scripts, or have submarines actually dive similar to real ones
[16:14]	Slee Mayo:	and an 'australia' for suspended accounts
[16:14]	Elisha Richez:	like the cornfield?
[16:14]	Youri Ashton:	for that matter, have plants and sea life actually move in the water
[16:14]	xstorm Radek:	but i was looking at the way water looks in bbox and the land and roads it be a great help
[16:15]	Slee Mayo:	you could use invis prim to push in your river to create the 'cueent' effect
[16:15]	Dzonatas Sol:	ships without scripts... have an avatar wear it and act as the egine
[16:15]	Slee Mayo:	*current
[16:15]	Dzonatas Sol:	engine*
[16:15]	Youri Ashton:	ships without the script that makes it float
[16:15]	xstorm Radek:	scripts make to many problems
[16:15]	reddot99 Republic:	a material with the same amount of restitution as land would be nice'
[16:15]	Youri Ashton:	not the ones that make it move
[16:16]	Jack Abraham:	^what reddot said.
[16:16]	Youri Ashton:	or for that matter, ships without the splashy water script
[16:16]	Youri Ashton:	takes lag down drastically
[16:16]	xstorm Radek:	i have found some big problems with 0 prim temp rezzers on 1.4x
[16:16]	Simon Linden:	Let's see ... not much else going on. I did find some code with the region crossings to clean up yesterday which should make a _slight_ improvement for performance and the 'slingshot' behavior the viewer sees
[16:16]	Israel Schnute:	woohoo
[16:16]	Elisha Richez:	brb....ive been on 2.0 for 10 mins too long
[16:16]	Jack Abraham:	Yay!
[16:16]	xstorm Radek:	so less scripts the better
[16:16]	reddot99 Republic:	0 prim temp rezzers have always been a problem
[16:17]	Alisha Matova:	2,0 has Huge issues with crossings. any of your fixes adress that Simon?
[16:17]	Simon Linden:	It turns out the simulator doesn't fully block some of the invalid updates the viewer sends as a region crossing occurs, so you can briefly see AVs disappear or get moved to an invalid location
[16:17]	Simon Linden:	My fixes are in the simulator
[16:17]	Jack Abraham:	In 1.40, Simon?
[16:17]	Simon Linden:	.. and will be in 1.42, not 1.40
[16:17]	Slee Mayo:	whispers: hi
[16:17]	Alisha Matova:	=) was just hoping they were related =) thanks
[16:17]	Israel Schnute:	i thought the new beta that was rleased yesterday states it addresses ppl disappearing on sim crossings
[16:17]	Moon Metty:	invalid location?
[16:17]	Youri Ashton:	another question, same line as xstorm's question, how about having the option to add "weight" to builds. for example a car now will simple bounce off like a avi would simply because it does not have a specific weight. Same for aircraft etc. But why not add a new build option that allows residents to add in weight?
[16:18]	Simon Linden:	I'm really hoping we're not doing more for 1.40 and can get through the pilot and a release smoothly
[16:18]	Slee Mayo:	mass?
[16:18]	reddot99 Republic:	llsetmass
[16:18]	Youri Ashton:	everything will then fall to the ground instead of sticking in the air for example
[16:18]	Jack Abraham:	Youri, I'd settle for avatars obeying physics properly as is when hit by something. Avatar friction is bogus.
[16:18]	Youri Ashton:	you will get a lot more realism
[16:18]	Simon Linden:	hmm, we might get that if the material density could be adjusted
[16:18]	Simon Linden:	The mass now is the volume x density
[16:18]	Youri Ashton:	besides the obvious cleaning that you wont have to do
[16:19]	reddot99 Republic:	just hand us a mass/density slider
[16:19]	Youri Ashton:	indeed reddot
[16:19]	Slee Mayo:	oh, how has 1.40 been holding up in the combat sims...anyone know?
[16:19]	Jack Abraham:	Simon said well, Slee.
[16:19]	Slee Mayo:	ty
[16:19]	reddot99 Republic:	its not been out in organized combat much
[16:20]	Sindra Aquila:	here is something else, is there a way to put some sort of second script in an object that causes the main script to be faster or has higher priority?
[16:20]	Youri Ashton:	or for that matter, just give us the opertunity to tell how much mass/density we want
[16:20]	Youri Ashton:	for a car it should be less then a ship for example, but a avi on its own needs mass/density as well
[16:20]	Kaluura Boa:	By script... Not in the viewer...
[16:20]	reddot99 Republic:	by both
[16:20]	Jack Abraham:	Or give some love to SVC-1179.
[16:20]	llPushObject applied	to avatars is inconsistent
[16:20]	Kaluura Boa:	We don't want to wait years to be able to do it by script... like slice for example
[16:20]	Simon Linden:	Not that I know of, Sindra. But I think the 2nd script would effectively give that object twice as much script time, as each script is treated equally
[16:20]	Jack Abraham:	/me had hoped to be able to bother Andrew about that...
[16:21]	Youri Ashton:	you see often that a resident in a vehicle gets pushed out the way by a resident without vehicle... which is kinda odd
[16:21]	Simon Linden:	Andrew is off on vacation for two weeks
[16:21]	reddot99 Republic:	he needs it i betm
[16:21]	Jack Abraham:	Silly Andrew, didn't he know this was my vacation time to harass him? : )
[16:21]	Sindra Aquila:	another mysterie then, thanks
[16:21]	Slee Mayo:	he won't get if if he's married and wife is with him
[16:21]	Youri Ashton:	lol jack
[16:21]	Simon Linden:	I think there also is some funky behavior with objects vs. avatars, as well as how seated AVs are taken into account
[16:22]
[16:22]	Jack Abraham:	Physics is funky with avatars all over.
[16:22]	Jack Abraham:	I really wish I could do vehicle calls on avatars.
[16:22]	Dzonatas Sol:	avatar as an engine thought worth experimentation... too bad one avatar can't be allowed to sit on another
[16:22]
[16:22]	Mass is	1.250000
[16:22]	Mass is	3.196420
[16:22]	Mass is	1.250000
[16:22]	Simon Linden:	hmm, looks like it does include the AV
[16:22]	Youri Ashton:	think you get my idea simon, might be handy to add it, not just for realism, but also for a lot of other reasons
[16:23]	reddot99 Republic:	jack, you can do vehicle calls on avatars
[16:23]	Jack Abraham:	Wait, what?
[16:23]	Alisha Matova:	really?
[16:23]	Slee Mayo:	i do in all my scripts
[16:23]	Liisa Runo:	yup
[16:23]	Youri Ashton:	a ship like the one behind me is obviously not using anything atm in mass/density, its just a big block of prims.
[16:23]	Alisha Matova:	"i Am a boat!"
[16:24]	Youri Ashton:	but adding mass/density you will get a more realistic ship
[16:24]	Youri Ashton:	a ship that reacts to its envoirment
[16:24]	Jack Abraham:	I had no idea...
[16:24]	Liisa Runo:	llVehicle stuff works on agent, but dont behave always as on prim, for example you cant tilt AV
[16:24]	Youri Ashton:	adding xstorm's idea of water that is
[16:24]	Jack Abraham:	You guys just made my week.
[16:24]	reddot99 Republic:	yeah, what liisa said, and it doesnt work on the ground very well
[16:24]	Youri Ashton:	you will get ships that actually are more realistic then you can imagen
[16:25]	Jack Abraham:	I want it for flight anyway. I can do banking with animations.
[16:25]	reddot99 Republic:	then the hangglider i handed you should have most of what you want
[16:25]	Youri Ashton:	not just sailing in a straight line, but also cornering an the waves will make it a better experience
[16:25]	Jack Abraham:	You're my new best friend, reddot.
[16:25]	Dzonatas Sol:	i'm thinking client-side scripts to do animations where parcels don't allow
[16:25]	Dzonatas Sol:	so that was my thought of avatar as an engine
[16:26]	Alisha Matova:	afk
[16:26]	Youri Ashton:	you will however need to be able to change the settings, a submarine obviously reacts differntly then a sailingship
[16:26]	Youri Ashton:	reddot, gives me another idea
[16:27]	reddot99 Republic:	simon, play with the vehicle based hangglider, works amazingly well
[16:27]	Simon Linden:	I'm not sure about the 1.42 dates at this point but it's likely to be in mid or late August.
[16:27]	Simon Linden:	We'll get it on Aditi as soon as 1.40 sticks on the main grid
[16:27]	Jack Abraham:	Has a feature set been determined for 1.42?
[16:27]	Dzonatas Sol:	code-split
[16:27]	Dzonatas Sol:	=)
[16:27]	Youri Ashton:	what about adding wind that actually reacts like wind, and really makes it harder on a avi to walk into the wind, or easier if ou have the wind in the back. or 'pushing' sailing ships etc
[16:27]	reddot99 Republic:	see if you can add tilt into the avatar so that you dont have just upright as an option
[16:27]	Simon Linden:	I don't have any release notes yet, but we're trying to avoid adding anything more even as 1.40 got late
[16:28]	reddot99 Republic:	aww
[16:28]	Youri Ashton:	even aircraft will benifit sicne they need air to stay in the air or even get off the ground..
[16:28]	Slee Mayo:	i have a ball that reacts to wind
[16:28]	reddot99 Republic:	youri, more fluid dynamics calculations at an even larger scale
[16:28]	Youri Ashton:	the aircraft scripts are bad still, so making it easier....
[16:28]	Dzonatas Sol:	isn't that what OpenCL was wanted for awhile ago
[16:28]	Youri Ashton:	correct reddot
[16:29]	Dzonatas Sol:	partial fluid dynamics
[16:29]	reddot99 Republic:	be easier to do water than to do air
[16:29]	Youri Ashton:	actually not far from what i been talking about with Blue Linden several times, a "liquid" sky and "liquid" space
[16:29]	Liisa Runo:	now when i think about it, i remember cant even rotate agent with llSetVehicleVectorParam(VEHICLE_ANGULAR_MOTOR_DIRECTION
[16:30]	reddot99 Republic:	allowing rotating of agents would be nice, finally allow that
[16:30]	Liisa Runo:	llPointAt
[16:30]	Youri Ashton:	you could push the water idea into the air and space, adapting them so it would fit in proper specifications (and visually), and you can actually have more realism there
[16:30]	Liisa Runo:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlPointAt
[16:30]	Dzonatas Sol:	could llCastRay be used now for some dynamics? boat-wise?
[16:31]	Youri Ashton:	then you wont basically have to add a new wind
[16:31]	reddot99 Republic:	llcastray could make an npv actually take a road into consideration
[16:31]	Youri Ashton:	the liquid sky is actually pushing for you
[16:31]	Dzonatas Sol:	haven't used it... not sure if the cast is absolute vectors or relative
[16:31]	Youri Ashton:	like water does with a ship
[16:31]	reddot99 Republic:	its a relative vector, from first point
[16:31]	Jack Abraham:	Gotta get llCastRay over here first...
[16:31]	reddot99 Republic:	oskar said not to expect it soon,
[16:32]	Simon Linden:	llCastRay might also be useful for ground detection ... I remember there were some waves that were nice and pretty but sim killers as they were a complex shape and constantly doing lots of tests to see if they touched the ground at the shoreline
[16:32]	Jack Abraham:	I'm campaigning for it, not expecting it. : )
[16:32]	reddot99 Republic:	also, anybody have vehicle parameter set that acts like an avatar?
[16:32]	xstorm Radek:	use it for bullets
[16:32]	Simon Linden:	I hope Falcon can get some time for another revision as he's mostly off 1.40 work now
[16:33]	Youri Ashton:	roads are now regular prims without the proper idea behind a road, a road is there to keep a car ON the road, not to make it glide off. making realistic roads may indeed improve all driving aspects as well
[16:33]	Slee Mayo:	have your car detect the road and center itself
[16:33]	Slee Mayo:	...with offset for multi lane
[16:33]	reddot99 Republic:	cast rays to find lanes, lol
[16:34]	Liisa Runo:	speaking of roads, some places have banlines on LL road.... not very funny
[16:34]	Youri Ashton:	a realistic tarmac road with rubber tires should be giving more grip then, but using metal (for track of a tank for example) would be less grip
[16:34]	Bronson Blackadder:	has anyone noticed Simon hasnt said anything for like... ages?
[16:34]	reddot99 Republic:	i remember seeing that liisa
[16:34]	Jack Abraham:	I don't think we'll get the moles to rebuild all the roads on the mainland though, Youri.
[16:34]	Youri Ashton:	then you can actually have a standard of such things and leave it up to the residents to add in specifics into their vehicles
[16:35]	Slee Mayo:	it's friday, he's busy saving his work and getting his pc rady to shutdown for the weekend
[16:35]	Simon Linden:	I'm still awake :)
[16:35]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:35]	Moon Metty:	:)
[16:35]	Alisha Matova:	it is not the banline owners issue, its thier land, they can put up the lines if they want to. what needs to change is how the banlines return vechiles leaving the AV stuck with no controls
[16:35]	Youri Ashton:	he's listening and writing down our ideas ;)
[16:35]	Youri Ashton:	haha
[16:35]	Jack Abraham:	Don't need a Linden to have office hours. : )
[16:36]	reddot99 Republic:	what would it take to get a couple new materials,?
[16:36]	Simon Linden:	Not much new to add ... I curious about roads: what do you want them to do? Help keep vehicles in the right place?
[16:36]	Slee Mayo:	we should file for an easement on the roads
[16:36]	Sindra Aquila:	yes reddot, what?
[16:36]	Youri Ashton:	shhh jack, he might take you siriously and leave
[16:36]	Youri Ashton:	lol
[16:36]	Jack Abraham:	Rather than new materials, can we just get the material properties exposed to scripts, so we can set them directly?
[16:36]	Simon Linden:	Keep encouraging Falcon on the materials ... he's been laying the ground work for more settings
[16:36]	Youri Ashton:	roads, well... basically to add more realism
[16:36]	reddot99 Republic:	jack said what i'd like most
[16:37]	Sindra Aquila:	it might solve a lot of vehicle problems too
[16:37]	Simon Linden:	Right, we're not likely to add more pre-defined ones, but rather open up an API to set them yourself
[16:37]	Jack Abraham:	Cool.
[16:37]	Youri Ashton:	cars and other road vehicles are currently just gliding off since they are not really helping
[16:37]	reddot99 Republic:	and most of the time they only have 1 or two points of contact
[16:37]	reddot99 Republic:	since its often a box
[16:37]	Jack Abraham:	Most of my gliding off problems have been sim crossings, really.
[16:38]	Youri Ashton:	besides that, cars are doing sometimes 360 turns on the spot, that needs to be dealth with as well
[16:38]	Youri Ashton:	i dont mind if a tracked vehicle does that, but a car?
[16:38]	Youri Ashton:	lol
[16:38]	reddot99 Republic:	that'd tear the tracts of most
[16:39]	reddot99 Republic:	off rather
[16:39]	Youri Ashton:	takes the fun out if you can not aim straight to the road and drive in a straight line becouse the road is so slippery you gliding to all sides
[16:39]	Alisha Matova:	mega prim wieghts?
[16:39]	Simon Linden:	yeah, it's really too costly to model accurate tires and a road surface, so you can end up with some odd behavior sometimes
[16:39]	Rex Cronon:	greetings *
[16:39]	Youri Ashton:	hey rex
[16:39]	Rex Cronon:	oops. i am late:(
[16:39]	Moon Metty:	hey Rex
[16:39]	Moon Metty:	just a little :)
[16:40]	Youri Ashton:	well, im not much of a scripter or anything, but i do know ideas and what should be possible
[16:40]	Jack Abraham:	Fashionably.
[16:40]	Rex Cronon:	hi youri, moon
[16:40]	Alisha Matova:	look to Les White od RaceSL for tire and road code.
[16:40]	Alisha Matova:	of*
[16:40]	Slee Mayo:	not enough straight roads for my dragster
[16:40]	Youri Ashton:	i know the roads can be made "smarter" to help drivers keep on the road
[16:40]	Youri Ashton:	if it works in RL, why wouldnt it help in SL?
[16:41]	Youri Ashton:	in SL you will need a lot less to make it work
[16:41]	reddot99 Republic:	god knows how many gaps i've seen in roads
[16:41]	Simon Linden:	that makes sense, since otherwise I'm sure a lot of folks would be driving off into the weeds
[16:41]	Youri Ashton:	so why not try it out and test it
[16:41]	Alisha Matova:	Youri, soulds like it be easier to line the roads with alpha prim guides, thick ones
[16:41]	Youri Ashton:	first forner straight ahead simon ;)
[16:41]	Slee Mayo:	i'll write my congressman to pass legislature to add guradrails to all roads
[16:41]	reddot99 Republic:	lol,
[16:42]	Youri Ashton:	alisha, making a car a tram doesnt make it a car, it makes it a tram with a car apearance
[16:42]	Youri Ashton:	takes away the fun as well
[16:42]	Youri Ashton:	you need to be able to overtake others when possible
[16:42]	Liisa Runo:	pffff, male drivers... i dont have any problem on staying on the road, and i even get speeding tickets on LL roads so im not driving too slow
[16:42]	Slee Mayo:	haha
[16:42]	Elisha Richez:	XD
[16:43]	Youri Ashton:	and for that matter, racetracks that are all over SL really can use more overtaking and aid to stay on as well
[16:43]	Alisha Matova:	i was more picturing guard rails. sorry for poor descriptveness
[16:43]	Youri Ashton:	so you do need a human to do that, not a tram track
[16:43]	reddot99 Republic:	youri, think of a bridge
[16:43]	Youri Ashton:	it would be saying "hey, im lazy, im letting my avi turn into a sim from the game sims"
[16:44]	reddot99 Republic:	they have guard rails,
[16:44]	reddot99 Republic:	but not in sl often
[16:44]	Youri Ashton:	guard rails im not against, its the tram track idea more i am against
[16:44]	Youri Ashton:	and trust me, i wont be the only one
[16:44]	Simon Linden:	we really need to make region crossings better too with vehicles ... being limited to one region is no fun
[16:44]	Jack Abraham:	I think this has gotten way too implementation specific.
[16:44]	Jack Abraham:	Indeed.
[16:44]	Youri Ashton:	people dont like it if you take away the fun of driving yourself.
[16:45]	Alisha Matova:	yes please simon =)
[16:45]	Moon Metty:	driving a car across regions needs so many textures to load
[16:45]	reddot99 Republic:	youri, thats why the smart cars that drive for you never caught on
[16:45]	Elisha Richez:	why? my son laffs his butt off everytime he watches my car fly off into space.
[16:45]	Slee Mayo:	riding the SL rails is fun unless you have multiple people with you and over 1/2 get left at the sim crossing
[16:45]	Jack Abraham:	I can't campaign for fewer teleports if teleporting's the only practical way to get around SL.
[16:46]	Youri Ashton:	simon, i been hearing something about a script that can be installed in a car. this script (when hitting a sim line) is makign the vehicle wait in the sim till everything is loaded
[16:46]	Youri Ashton:	no idea how the script is called though
[16:46]	Alisha Matova:	could the "recieving" sim sense that an AV is nearing a boarder and preload some things?
[16:46]	Jack Abraham:	I think it already does.
[16:46]	Dzonatas Sol:	some reason i think switch to a low-rez ray-tracing in the viewer would be more optimal for moving avatars... right now they use regular OpenGL
[16:47]	Alisha Matova:	i asume its the script states that throw things for a loop
[16:47]	Simon Linden:	We've talked a lot about trying to pre-load a region crossing and such, but it always seems to get really complicated dealing with the cases where things change at the last second before the crossing
[16:47]	Youri Ashton:	if you hit a simline, the car continues before you even loaded
[16:47]	Youri Ashton:	that is what makes it shoot off in the first place
[16:47]	Youri Ashton:	besides that people making cars way to fast
[16:47]	Alisha Matova:	ive seen that in pratice Simon, crossin at a glancing angle or chaging dirrection just before a crossing = death sprial
[16:48]	Youri Ashton:	indeed
[16:48]	Slee Mayo:	it's good training
[16:48]	Youri Ashton:	either a death spiral or it shoots into the ground or air, or it overshoots a couple of sims
[16:48]	Jack Abraham:	Would it be worth making the edge cases worse if it made the usual case better?
[16:48]	Dzonatas Sol:	what about static "locked" prims that are pre-loaded
[16:48]	Dzonatas Sol:	if a neighboring sims have "locked" prims then dl them rather or not a sim-cross happens
[16:48]	Alisha Matova:	could the "recieving" sim just ignore odd changes from the last second or so?
[16:49]	Simon Linden:	Dzonatas - that's another idea we've discussed, and I think it has a lot of promise.
[16:49]	Youri Ashton:	just thinking about something.... with sim crossings in a car you want to stay on the road is it not?
[16:49]	Slee Mayo:	freeze phys until av has fully entered new sim
[16:49]	Youri Ashton:	why not make the road itself 'lock' the car in place untill you are ready to move on
[16:49]	Simon Linden:	It seems like there's a lot of data in a region with the terrain, objects, textures, etc that don't change. It would be really nice to tell the viewer that, so they could be saved
[16:49]	Elisha Richez:	i like slees idea
[16:49]	Youri Ashton:	it should stop the problems with current sim crossings ina car
[16:50]	Simon Linden:	ALso possibly pre-loading it all in a compressed chunk ... it might be slower initially, but should be smoother later
[16:50]	Youri Ashton:	doesnt need to be a hard 'lock', but something simple that needs just a double tab on forward key for the vehicle to move on
[16:50]	Dzonatas Sol:	I've pressed for the bulk download before... that topic fade oftens. I'm glad you mentioned it. =)
[16:50]	Ardy Lay:	As an experiment, disable both texture loading and velocity interpolation. Strip your avatar down to ZERO attachments, won't kill ya. Make a one prim vehicle with one script in and and ride that around.
[16:51]	Liisa Runo:	changed(integer change){ if (change & CHANGED_REGION){ // you can add neat stuff here ;) } }
[16:51]	Moon Metty:	or several chunks with a different discard level
[16:51]	Alisha Matova:	do you know if there is a fix for the crossing/network issues with 2.0? i know its not server stuff, but have you heard of a fix. becuase the 2.0 crossing but is terrible
[16:51]	Ardy Lay:	REmove ALL HUDs too, won't kill ya.
[16:51]	Rex Cronon:	now we ahver to ride bare:)
[16:51]	Slee Mayo:	i just hate cruising around for hours and finally finding a chick that wants to ride with me only to lose her at a sim crossing
[16:51]	Simon Linden:	The last beta as better, I thought
[16:51]	Elisha Richez:	rofl slee
[16:52]	Alisha Matova:	=) ill have to give it a whirl.
[16:52]	Jack Abraham:	Gotta be into bald chicks, Slee. It's the hair that does it.
[16:52]	Liisa Runo:	^^
[16:52]	Youri Ashton:	try crossing a sim crossing with a cloaked vehicle.... your vehicle will be shattered into a million peaces delinking everything and in some cases even catapult you to the end of the sim
[16:52]	Ardy Lay:	Simon, have a look at "local_assets".
[16:52]	Liisa Runo:	it is not the hair, it is the shoes with 400 blign scripts
[16:52]	Simon Linden:	Ardy - in jira?
[16:52]	Rex Cronon:	even havok 4 was better on sim crossings
[16:52]	Ardy Lay:	In the viewer's installation directory.
[16:52]	Youri Ashton:	funny to see a ship shatter up like that though... lol
[16:53]	Ardy Lay:	Viewer looks there for textures before it check cache and before it asks the simulator for it.
[16:53]	Youri Ashton:	just the prims are all over the sim... makes really a mess
[16:53]	Sindra Aquila:	about the hair, because it has a milluion resizer scripts in every linked prim, would a uniform resizer not help too, in just the root prim?
[16:53]	Ardy Lay:	If I put all of my own textures in local_assets I never have to wait for them to download again.
[16:54]	Moon Metty:	it's a first line cache?
[16:54]	Ardy Lay:	Yup
[16:54]	Jack Abraham:	It would, Sindra, if you could get hair makers to believe that's a good idea. So far I get abuse when I propose it.
[16:54]	Moon Metty:	hmmm
[16:54]	Simon Linden:	I'm clueless about the viewer's caching, but that sounds like a good start
[16:54]	Moon Metty:	indeed
[16:54]	Simon Linden:	Do you have to manually put textures in local_assets?
[16:54]	Slee Mayo:	that or preloading on transparent prim
[16:55]	Ardy Lay:	local_assets is NOT CLEARED when the viewer cleares cache.
[16:55]	Liisa Runo:	or hair creators just need to realise that making hair no-mod dont prevent people from copybotting it. and customers need to boycot no-mod shit with resize scripts
[16:55]	Ardy Lay:	Simon, yes, I manually place my own textures in there.
[16:55]	Elisha Richez:	yep resize scripts are beyond lame
[16:55]	Moon Metty:	thanks Ardy
[16:55]	Ardy Lay:	You are welcome.
[16:55]	Sindra Aquila:	well, i dont know precise tyhe implications of so many scripts, but it might make border crossing far worse then needed and not only hair
[16:56]	Bronson Blackadder:	would be nice if they put a kill script in their hair so you can kill off te scripts when you get it where you want it
[16:56]	Jack Abraham:	Which brings around the question that's probably Kelly's but I'll float it here anyway... Simon, what's happening with script limits?
[16:56]	Simon Linden:	that sounds like a feature the viewer should do for you, something like "save this regions data"
[16:56]	Moon Metty:	yes, and don't forget it lol
[16:57]	Dzonatas Sol:	saving data locally has always been a touchy subject
[16:57]	Simon Linden:	Script limits are in limbo these days
[16:57]	Dzonatas Sol:	we've been waiting for explicit flags on prims
[16:57]	Jack Abraham:	. o O ( Viewer should also save stuff that's fraggin' behind me; I might turn around. )
[16:57]	Alisha Matova:	"save this regions data" sounds rather copybotish.. =P
[16:57]	Simon Linden:	The simulator currently tracks script usage, but it's not enforcing any limits
[16:57]	Jack Abraham:	So the ability to set memory utilization for scripts isn't likely any time soon?
[16:57]	Liisa Runo:	we dont need limits, torch mob works just fine
[16:57]	Sindra Aquila:	yes, but how much damage does so many scripts do to crossings
[16:57]	Simon Linden:	Not soon, no
[16:58]	Ardy Lay:	Jack, that stays in cache on disk for a while, just takes a while to load from that cache so things look grey for a while.
[16:58]	Ardy Lay:	Textures load faster from local_assets than from managed cache.
[16:58]	Kaluura Boa:	Speeding up and enlarging the cache would be a good idea too
[16:58]	reddot99 Republic:	local assets was where the "no image" was stored, right?
[16:59]	Jack Abraham:	So that's not one of the tacks you guys are taking to fix performance, Simon?
[16:59]	Ardy Lay:	Also helps to put managed cache on a RAM Disk
[16:59]	Ardy Lay:	reddot99, might have been.
[16:59]	Ardy Lay:	Might have also been in skins
[16:59]	Ardy Lay:	Actually it's in skinns. Still there.
[16:59]	Slee Mayo:	i'd like to take this time to announce i'm running for public sandbox mayor. as myaor i'll try and get a little more attention drawn to the public sandboxes and their issues
[16:59]	reddot99 Republic:	lol
[16:59]	Simon Linden:	Jack - it's still on the list but not near the top
[16:59]	Jack Abraham:	OK.
[17:00]	Dzonatas Sol:	it would first help to separate the network out of the renderer loop
[17:00]	Elisha Richez:	can i be teh sandbox queen then?
[17:00]	Dzonatas Sol:	before touch the cache
[17:00]	reddot99 Republic:	mainland should have everybody able to see script times like estate tools
[17:00]	Liisa Runo:	/me votes for slee: sandboxes are the heart of SL
[17:00]	Dzonatas Sol:	there is http textures work done, but not fully enabled yet
[17:00]	reddot99 Republic:	even if they cant disable/return
[17:00]	Dzonatas Sol:	http textures could be used to help speed up some billboard like views
[17:00]	Simon Linden:	Right, http textures isn't fully working yet
[17:01]	Jack Abraham:	1.40?
[17:01]	reddot99 Republic:	speaking of which, what happens when you disable an avatar?
[17:01]	xstorm Radek:	i know that Second Life 2.1.0 (206756) Jul 9 2010 13:53:28 (Second Life Beta Viewer) has some problems that will need to be fix
[17:01]	Simon Linden:	I don't know what the issues with it are
[17:01]	Liisa Runo:	yea, when we see in mainland too, the torchmob starts to enforce
[17:01]	reddot99 Republic:	can we get pitchforks in linden library along with the torchs?
[17:01]	Youri Ashton:	simon, as i keep saying, textures need to be on server and local. this loads the fastest for everyone
[17:02]	xstorm Radek:	?
[17:02]	reddot99 Republic:	cant have a proper mob without at least one pitchfork
[17:02]	Youri Ashton:	logically its a better solution then keeping it on a big server where you can keep downloading it and there for adding lag because things dont load properly again
[17:03]	Simon Linden:	I'm not sure we need to pass out more pitchforks
[17:03]	Liisa Runo:	speaking of performance, LL working on fixing the cache?
[17:03]	Liisa Runo:	i know it is not your area simon, but you might know
[17:03]	Moon Metty:	lol
[17:03]	Simon Linden:	The viewer's cache?
[17:03]	Liisa Runo:	yea
[17:03]	Dzonatas Sol:	I thought some of the issues were the code still heavily uses null pointers, and that isn't best for functions that are used by two threads at once.
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	I haven't heard anything about it, unfortunately
[17:04]	Liisa Runo:	alright
[17:04]	reddot99 Republic:	what would it take to move sl's servers to multithreading?
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	I did an overhaul of the VFS for the server ... currently they share a lot of code, and it's pretty buggy
[17:04]	Ardy Lay:	Q says cache is being worked on.
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	I'm not sure if the viewer will pick it up or not
[17:04]	Liisa Runo:	reddot, it would take about 1% of the yearly tier
[17:05]	Simon Linden:	There are some problems on Windows XP - it really doesn't like a lot of little files
[17:05]	Simon Linden:	I have to get going today ... thanks everyone for coming
[17:05]	Youri Ashton:	windows never likes to do much period
[17:05]	Jack Abraham:	/me groans at the very thought of Windows and tons of 4k files...
[17:05]	Jack Abraham:	Thanks, SImon.
[17:05]	Alisha Matova:	=)
[17:05]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon
[17:05]	Dzonatas Sol:	sqllite for blob data instead of files
[17:05]	Youri Ashton:	isnt a case of XP, vista or win7
[17:05]	Moon Metty:	thanks for the hour Simon, i enjoyed it
[17:05]	Simon Linden:	Take care, see you next time
[17:05]	Sindra Aquila:	thanks simon
[17:05]	Moon Metty:	bye :)
[17:05]	Dzonatas Sol:	thanks you for being here
[17:05]	Youri Ashton:	thank you for having us simon! have a great vacation!
[17:05]	reddot99 Republic:	see ya simon

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