User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 07 23

Transcript

[16:03]	Moon Metty:	hey Simon :)
[16:03]	Sindra Aquila:	hello simon
[16:03]	xstorm Radek:	or i can have Simon tell people what metadata is
[16:03]	Simon Linden:	hello
[16:03]	xstorm Radek:	hi Simon
[16:03]	Fayth Spearsong:	meta-whosit?
[16:03]	DogWomble Dollinger:	mornign simon
[16:03]	xstorm Radek:	:-(
[16:04]	Simon Linden:	ah, let's see, annoucements ...
[16:04]	xstorm Radek:	please tell me some one knows what Metadata is
[16:04]	DogWomble Dollinger:	data = the data, metadata = a description of the data
[16:04]	Liisa Runo:	/me knows
[16:04]	DogWomble Dollinger:	in simple terms
[16:04]	Fayth Spearsong:	is it data that turns into a robot with ninja skillz?
[16:04]	xstorm Radek:	:-S
[16:04]	Simon Linden:	Server 1.40.4 was rolled out on Wednesday (or was it Tuesday?) and then another bug fix went out on Thursday morning
[16:05]	xstorm Radek:	Simon they missed Trendone mainland sim
[16:05]	Kaluura Boa:	When is the next rollback.
[16:05]	Simon Linden:	So far it's looking pretty good ... crash rate is low, bug reports are minor, and no new inventory issues
[16:05]	Kaluura Boa:	?
[16:05]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	Metadata describes how and when and by whom a particular set of data was collected, and how the data is formatted. Metadata is essential for understanding information stored in data warehouses and has become increasingly important in XML-based Web applicatio
[16:05]	Simon Linden:	I'm guessing it will be rolled out to the rest of the grid next week
[16:05]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	google is my friend. LOL
[16:05]	Moon Metty:	alright
[16:06]	Kaluura Boa:	Physics is seriously borked in 1.40.4
[16:06]	Moon Metty:	that latest problem was with inventory again?
[16:06]	xstorm Radek:	OMG!! some one knows what metadata is
[16:06]	Simon Linden:	got a bug for it?
[16:06]	Sindra Aquila:	why is it that in some viewers we see ppl with their mouthes fully open while others dont see it, it seems with all viewers, and can it be corrected?
[16:06]	Kaluura Boa:	I haven't searched Jira yet...
[16:06]	Liisa Runo:	i got some really intresting effect after the roll, but i was able to make it happen only 2 times. but in result, i had 2 prim object tha had the prims 230meters from each others
[16:07]	Simon Linden:	hmm, did one go to 0,0,0 by any chance?
[16:07]	Kaluura Boa:	But Goguen was under a (little) attack from a griefer... A few spiinning physical cubes and the sim was freezing like every 10 seconds
[16:07]	Moon Metty:	denby is on 1.38 ..
[16:07]	Kaluura Boa:	All physical prims drifting... the avatars too
[16:07]	Simon Linden:	yeah, I asked again to put Denby on the pilot list. Not sure why it was taken off
[16:07]	Liisa Runo:	hmm, not sure if it went to zero vec, it happened when i tried to unlink, but instead i got this offset to the other end of the reggion
[16:08]	Moon Metty:	i only TPed once today, i didn't go to 0,0,0
[16:08]	Moon Metty:	i did log in about 60 times though :)
[16:09]	Liisa Runo:	ill look in to it later, maybe i can make it happen again
[16:09]	Simon Linden:	I just today found the problem with logging in and ending up at 0,0,0
[16:09]	Moon Metty:	it happens with logging in too?
[16:09]	Moon Metty:	hmmm
[16:09]	Simon Linden:	IT was reported as some older versions of libomv bots would log in and end up at 0,0,0
[16:10]	xstorm Radek:	what is doing that a time out send point to point ?
[16:10]	Simon Linden:	I don't think it's specific to libomv, but it depends on a timing issue
[16:10]	xstorm Radek:	Bot ?
[16:10]	xstorm Radek:	so it is some thing to do with timing then ?
[16:11]	Simon Linden:	it shows up in some older bots. The current version of libomv is fixed ... the bug shows up if the client (viewer or bot) sends an AgentUpdate message very soon during the login and it hits at the wrong time
[16:11]	Simon Linden:	Yes, if we get that first AgentUpdate message in the exact same frame on the simulator that adds the AV to the world, it can happen
[16:12]	xstorm Radek:	ok then it sounds like it needs a timed order send put in place
[16:12]	Simon Linden:	yes, I think if the viewer waits for some message then it's OK
[16:13]	xstorm Radek:	so the timing for the client side and server needs to be better
[16:13]	Simon Linden:	For whatever reason it seems to show up most with old libomv code. Latif says it's fixed in the latest code there
[16:13]	Simon Linden:	yes, and I found a way to fix it on the server too
[16:13]	Moon Metty:	yeah
[16:13]	xstorm Radek:	if thats the case that can happen with teleport home
[16:14]	Simon Linden:	right, I think it can happen on TPs as well. To the destionation region, TPs are almost exactly the same as logins
[16:14]	Moon Metty:	well for the server yes
[16:14]	xstorm Radek:	yes it will if works the same with bad timing
[16:14]	Simon Linden:	yes, that's what I meant
[16:14]	Moon Metty:	:)
[16:15]	xstorm Radek:	but do not ask me im crazy
[16:15]	DogWomble Dollinger:	xstorm we're all a little crazy, don't worry :)
[16:15]	Simon Linden:	Anyway, we're hoping 1.40 looks OK over the weekend. I'm not sure why, but we actually got some reports saying it's faster and working better :)
[16:16]	Moon Metty:	that's nice
[16:16]	Sindra Aquila:	why is it that in some viewers we see ppl with their mouthes fully open while others dont see it, it seems with all viewers, and can it be corrected?
[16:16]	Simon Linden:	The mouth drawing is all done on the viewer, so it's up to that code
[16:16]	Sindra Aquila:	what causes it?
[16:16]	xstorm Radek:	the timing may be do to the fix falcon did do to some crazy person was crashing the server over on aditi poor falcon
[16:17]	Liisa Runo:	gesture spamming causes it ^^
[16:17]	Simon Linden:	like the "move AV lips when speaking" option
[16:17]	Bronson Blackadder:	xstorms typing does it
[16:17]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:17]	Sindra Aquila:	thanks
[16:17]	Simon Linden:	I like that typing animation :)
[16:17]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[16:17]	Bronson Blackadder:	I seen some peoples gestures get stuck half way through thier animation
[16:18]	Moon Metty:	lol yes, imagine what it would look like when his mouth was moving
[16:18]	Bronson Blackadder:	this may be what you seen
[16:18]	Rex Cronon:	i almost forgot to come
[16:18]	xstorm Radek:	i think when Falcon sees what i have been doing he will get the gun out
[16:18]	Moon Metty:	hey Rex
[16:18]	Ardy Lay:	xstorm has a binary keyboard. He had to enter all the bits manually, thus, he hits the keyboard a lot.
[16:18]	xstorm Radek:	hi Rex
[16:18]	Rex Cronon:	hi moon, xstorm
[16:18]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[16:18]	xstorm Radek:	:-)
[16:19]	Simon Linden:	well, there's one rezzing bug fix I want to get out, but will have to wait for 1.42 ... that should stop a lot of the rez crashes
[16:19]	Bronson Blackadder:	xstorms typing is funny, I love it
[16:19]	DogWomble Dollinger:	ardy, i thought his was hexadecimal?
[16:19]	Rex Cronon:	btw simon. u remember last oh asked about llsetprimparameters fast?
[16:19]	Simon Linden:	right
[16:19]	Rex Cronon:	well i tseems i was looking at the worng page
[16:19]	Moon Metty:	the wiki is corrected, Rex
[16:19]	Simon Linden:	you needed a fast get()
[16:19]	xstorm Radek:	Simon have you looked in to 0 Prim Temp Rezzers ?
[16:20]	Simon Linden:	no, I don't know what those are
[16:20]	xstorm Radek:	damn i will need to chat with Dan Linden i think
[16:20]	Liisa Runo:	rezzers to constantly rez stuff as temp to keep them permanently and cheating tier money from LL
[16:20]	Simon Linden:	The bug I was fixing was one where multiple scripts/objects would try and rez the same thing at the same time and it would crash the sim
[16:20]	Liisa Runo:	they also lag the sim a lot
[16:21]	xstorm Radek:	yes Liisa
[16:21]	Simon Linden:	ah, right, getting around prim limits
[16:21]	Rex Cronon:	yes get not set. right
[16:21]	Simon Linden:	yeah, that's not good, it just wastes a lot of CPU time rezzing and deleting stuff
[16:21]	xstorm Radek:	not only that the temp rezzer is making problems not only in the sim they are in but the blade server they are on
[16:21]	Rex Cronon:	i was looking here http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetPrimitiveParams
[16:22]	Rex Cronon:	shouts: instead of here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetLinkPrimitiveParams
[16:22]	Rex Cronon:	oops. didn't mean to shout
[16:22]	Simon Linden:	Does anyone have ideas on some way to make those temp rezzers not useful?
[16:22]	xstorm Radek:	in fact they can mace a wave form error on a sim they are not even in
[16:22]	Simon Linden:	We wouldn't want to break legitimate temp rezzers, of course
[16:22]	Moon Metty:	hmmm llGetPrimitiveParams doesn't have a delay
[16:23]	xstorm Radek:	other the plugging the exploite ?
[16:23]	Rex Cronon:	there might be a way simon:)
[16:23]	Liisa Runo:	technical way is tricky, but changing policy would really help, angry neighbors would AR the rezzers, and in time no one would even try to use them anymore
[16:23]	Rex Cronon:	have u heard of "slim prims"
[16:23]	DogWomble Dollinger:	simon, would there be any point in increasing the time limit that temp objects ar rezzed? that might mean that the temprezzers could be modified to rez them less often, meaning hopefully reduced load
[16:23]	Rex Cronon:	?
[16:23]	Simon Linden:	right ... we could just get rid of the prim accounting loophole, but there are probably parcels that are using it now
[16:23]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	did that Liisa. Didn't do one thing but make the neighbor mad at everyone around him.
[16:24]	Bronson Blackadder:	would be funny as hell if you can make temp rezzed items ohantom
[16:24]	Simon Linden:	Well, one legit usage is bullets, and those can't be slow
[16:24]	xstorm Radek:	like i say plug up the hole
[16:24]	Rex Cronon:	if ll were to use "slim prims" there might be no need for temp rezers
[16:24]	Bronson Blackadder:	then they cant use them for 2000 prim houses on a 1024 lot
[16:24]	Moon Metty:	PRIM_TYPE plane?
[16:25]	Simon Linden:	hmmm, I wonder if a prim limit for temp items would be valid
[16:25]	Simon Linden:	I'm sure it would break something
[16:25]	xstorm Radek:	and when the hole is plug it will do away with the temp wave pattern error on the server cpu
[16:25]	Bronson Blackadder:	anything temp rezzed not actually moving with velocity should be phantom
[16:25]	DogWomble Dollinger:	actually, that sounds like a plan simon, but what limit would be reasonable to not only avoid the problem but allow for reasonable legitimate use?
[16:25]	Liisa Runo:	if you cut the parcel to small pieces. you can put 15K prims to 400m2 plot with current system
[16:25]	xstorm Radek:	it will cut down on lag
[16:26]	Rex Cronon:	why not say: if u r not in the sim than u can rez at most 100 temp prims?
[16:27]	Simon Linden:	Is this done a lot when the AV isn't on the sim?
[16:27]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	yes Simon.
[16:27]	Bronson Blackadder:	fuck yes
[16:27]	Rex Cronon:	yes simon
[16:27]	Bronson Blackadder:	sorry for language
[16:27]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	People use them for entire houses.
[16:27]	xstorm Radek:	Simon i have the Trendone sim running 0 prim temp rezzers on Aditi and you can see the load they put on the sim and server
[16:27]	Simon Linden:	so it's just something that sits there all the time?
[16:27]	Bronson Blackadder:	yes
[16:27]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	yes
[16:27]	Rex Cronon:	that is the problem.
[16:27]	Simon Linden:	ok, got it.
[16:27]	Liisa Runo:	some vending machines rez Demo objects for potential customer to see, and those can be 256 prims, and i think this is fine and good use for temp things
[16:27]	Bronson Blackadder:	temp rezzng an entire house every minute
[16:27]	xstorm Radek:	i have seen a full sim use them
[16:28]	Moundsa Mayo:	Yah, I saw that at xstorm's!
[16:28]	Simon Linden:	yeah, that sounds pretty ugly
[16:28]	Bronson Blackadder:	and another sim I seen a huge swath of prims getting rezzed every two minutes
[16:28]	Liisa Runo:	but the problem is people who make buildings and everything temp, permanently, and they rez over and over again even if the owner is banned from SL 3 years ago
[16:28]	Bronson Blackadder:	or less
[16:28]	Bronson Blackadder:	even filing an AR does nothing
[16:28]	xstorm Radek:	not only was it making problems in the sim it was in but any sim on that server
[16:28]	Moundsa Mayo:	Legacy Load
[16:29]	Sindra Aquila:	but messing with temp prims might have a huge impact on all combat forms
[16:29]	xstorm Radek:	its not a temp prim
[16:29]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	I don't knwo if it's still being done, but for a while there was one content reator who advertised her very high primmed items as taking only one prim because of the object being seup in a temp rezzer like that.
[16:29]	Simon Linden:	yep, when one region behaves badly it usually affects the others on the same server
[16:29]	Bronson Blackadder:	trying to do a machinima blows, when someones 400 prim house rezzes right in the middle of a shhot
[16:30]	xstorm Radek:	its a 0 prim system thats the problem
[16:30]	Rex Cronon:	let sim owner decide to allow temp rims or not
[16:30]	xstorm Radek:	temp prims are fine
[16:30]	Simon Linden:	I've been toying with a plan to slow down empty sims, but have been stuck on the question of what that would break
[16:30]	Rex Cronon:	temp prims*
[16:30]	Moon Metty:	slow down?
[16:31]	Moon Metty:	like giving it 0.5 time dilation?
[16:31]	xstorm Radek:	if you slow down the timing it will mess up the client side
[16:31]	Rex Cronon:	btw demo vendor doesn't have to rez any temp demos. it can give the demo to the potential buyer:)
[16:31]	Bronson Blackadder:	seriously, if a temp prim aint moving it should be phatom
[16:31]	Liisa Runo:	Simon, i believe it will be very difficult to slow down sim and not get us angry. We can build cool servers in SL to do loads of stuff, and we want to keep them running smooth
[16:31]	Moundsa Mayo:	Hmm. Script timings that use wall clock could break.
[16:31]	Bronson Blackadder:	this way temp prims for bullets dont get affcted
[16:31]	Simon Linden:	right ... currently the sim runs like this: it does physics, handles messages, etc, runs some scripts. Then, if there is left over time (it's been less than 1/45th of a second) it will go into a loop where it sleeps and checks for messages
[16:32]	Bronson Blackadder:	them people will be less inclined to use them for houses
[16:32]	Bronson Blackadder:	then
[16:32]	Simon Linden:	That's giving up CPU time that can be used by other regions and programs on the server
[16:32]	xstorm Radek:	0 prim temp rez is a exploit on the server
[16:32]	Simon Linden:	So if nobody is in the region, or looking into it, I propose lengthinng that end time
[16:32]	Simon Linden:	That gives more CPU to the busy regions on the server
[16:33]	xstorm Radek:	temp rezzers are not
[16:33]	Rex Cronon:	btw xstorm. your typing anim is crazy. is like monkey tries to type with a banana. lol
[16:33]	xstorm Radek:	:-)
[16:33]	Sindra Aquila:	it would also mean that some person can no longer have a private sim
[16:33]	Simon Linden:	... but it makes that region run slower. So I'm not sure what it would do for vendors and bunnies
[16:33]	Sindra Aquila:	that scraps all use for a person to have a private sim
[16:34]	Rex Cronon:	bunies r not temp
[16:34]	Simon Linden:	What do you mean, Sindra?
[16:34]	Moon Metty:	a mono rezzing freeze totally stops a region for up to 30 seconds :)
[16:34]	xstorm Radek:	i think you will get a time out on zyngo systems first
[16:34]	Liisa Runo:	must park an ALT to sit in server room just to keep the sim running at normal speed ;P
[16:34]	Simon Linden:	I'm not talking about temp, I was explaining the idea on slowign down empty regions
[16:34]	xstorm Radek:	crossing will have a problem
[16:34]	Sindra Aquila:	well if an empty sim is slow down, there are4 sims that are often empty but used by private person on an on and offf bases, if slow it it is useless to them
[16:34]	Simon Linden:	As soon as anyone arrives (or looks into the sim) it would jump back to full speed
[16:35]	xstorm Radek:	and if the sim timing is to far off yoy will not see the sim at all
[16:35]	Rex Cronon:	people have vendors, scanners, personal messaging systems. u can't slow a sim down:(
[16:35]	Ardy Lay:	Simon, that would just add milliseconds to response times, right?
[16:35]	Moon Metty:	Simon, only if the tasks it has taken over are finished and transferred fast
[16:35]	Gramma Fiddlesticks:	have to go teach a class guys. See yah.
[16:35]	Moon Metty:	it can't just drop what it's doing
[16:36]	Simon Linden:	It's not giving up, it would just be running at 20fps (or so) instead of 45fps
[16:36]	xstorm Radek:	simon is there a way to test the network timing of sim handshakes ?
[16:36]	Simon Linden:	with some work, yes
[16:36]	Rex Cronon:	tc
[16:36]	Sindra Aquila:	but will that system be fast enough to be back as soon as someone arrives?
[16:37]	xstorm Radek:	they that what test needs to be done
[16:37]	Simon Linden:	But I do get the point ... outside communication would have to work just as fast as before
[16:37]	xstorm Radek:	yes
[16:37]	Sindra Aquila:	how fast will it be restored when someone goes to it
[16:37]	Kaluura Boa:	What would happen to physical objects corssing such a region all alone? Would they take twcie the time?
[16:37]	Rex Cronon:	u know what. if u sell sims that go slow when empty but at a lower price some might buy them
[16:37]	Ardy Lay:	He isn't talking about suspending the process.
[16:38]	Sindra Aquila:	i am very very much against slowing private sim
[16:38]	Simon Linden:	it can be really quick ... the same frame when the first message about a TP or login arrives, it would just go to normal speed
[16:38]	Sindra Aquila:	and keep price as it is
[16:38]	xstorm Radek:	hhhmmm i think some people are missunderstanding you Simon
[16:38]	Simon Linden:	Maybe ... what do you need to run when you're not there, Sindra?
[16:38]	Sindra Aquila:	maybe but thaty is very fundamental you pay for a class 5 sim and get a whatever class sim
[16:39]	Moon Metty:	where do photons go when it's dark?
[16:39]	Moon Metty:	have a look in the fridge
[16:39]	Yuu Nakamichi:	whena tre falss in the forest..
[16:39]	Simon Linden:	yeah, put the camcorder in there and close the door :)
[16:39]	Rex Cronon:	the sun turns off the switch. no morephotons:)
[16:39]	xstorm Radek:	????hold on you do know what a class 5 sim is right ?
[16:39]	Moon Metty:	ah, you got me
[16:39]	Moon Metty:	lol
[16:39]	DogWomble Dollinger:	simon, don't give me ideas for experiments :P
[16:40]	Moundsa Mayo:	The camcorder will slw down as it cools off ...
[16:40]	xstorm Radek:	Class 5 sim is the server hardware the sim is on
[16:40]	Simon Linden:	You'll get a video of what the fruit salad does when you're gone
[16:40]	Sindra Aquila:	whatever, but slowing a private sim is not right
[16:40]	Moon Metty:	so on an empty sim, a server on a prim would be slower
[16:40]	DogWomble Dollinger:	hmmm simon, you want me to set up fridgecam for theory testing? :P
[16:40]	xstorm Radek:	you do know that you will not go slow ?
[16:41]	Rex Cronon:	if u enter into an agreement with the sim owner, and in return sim owner pays less than can be right
[16:41]	xstorm Radek:	in fact slowing a sim will make you seem faster
[16:41]	Simon Linden:	I've done tests with this: 3 empty sims that had rezzers, plus one with AVs on one system. All were loaded down to about 25fps by physics. If I then slowed the empty ones, the one with AVs went up to 30fps.
[16:41]	Liisa Runo:	private or mainland, makes no difference, i demand scripts to run always at same speed. Empty sim slowdown will just create more lag cause soon we see dummy bot AV sitting in every sim to keep them running at full speed
[16:41]	Sindra Aquila:	it has a;lso large implications for prices of sims. AND if they will be used as private sims anymore
[16:41]	Simon Linden:	The goal is to make the other sims on your server slow you down less when you're there
[16:42]	Moon Metty:	it makes sense
[16:42]	Yuu Nakamichi:	and bots to circumvent a temp rez limit
[16:42]	Simon Linden:	I do understand that this changes what someone has purchased ... it's probably most effective with homesteads and openspace regions
[16:42]	xstorm Radek:	if a sim is empty then why not slow it down ?
[16:43]	Sindra Aquila:	yes, but if you pay for a full sim you expect it top be a fulkl sim not a slowed one
[16:43]	Yuu Nakamichi:	what if people keep bots in it to keep it busy xstomr?
[16:43]	Simon Linden:	well, the question quickly becomes "can you slow it down without causing any harm"
[16:43]	xstorm Radek:	Bots will not stop a 0 prim system i tested it but bots did stop me from shooting my gun
[16:43]	Sindra Aquila:	it will always be harmfull, i believe
[16:43]	Liisa Runo:	scripts are alive too, sure im fine with slowing down sim that is really empty and dont have agents, objects, or scripts, but scripts need to run good even when there is no agents
[16:44]	Simon Linden:	Ozimal bunnies might live twice as long :)
[16:44]	Moon Metty:	hahaha
[16:44]	Moundsa Mayo:	Sindra, already resources are being shared - inter core busses, meories, I/O - slowing of whole sims already occurs.
[16:44]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[16:44]	Sindra Aquila:	fime if it is included in the price, but not if the price sof tier stays as it is
[16:44]	Moon Metty:	then don't do it!!
[16:45]	xstorm Radek:	Sindra do you know what your fighting for ?
[16:45]	Sindra Aquila:	why would an yone want to pay far that in full if not get full value for it back
[16:45]	Kaluura Boa:	Yeah... I also want a slowing down of my tier...
[16:45]	Simon Linden:	I realisticly don't think it's going to happen, certainly not soon
[16:45]	Moon Metty:	but then you get into a situation were none of the regions of the host is empty, and there's no gain at all
[16:45]	Sindra Aquila:	fine, because it is about money too, getting quality for money
[16:45]	Simon Linden:	We are looking at, however, better allocation and distribution of regions onto hardware
[16:46]	xstorm Radek:	i think the train has jump the tracks Simon and sittin on a boat
[16:46]	Simon Linden:	Matching busy regions up with slow ones on the same server, putting adjacent ones in the same rack, etc
[16:46]	Moon Metty:	right
[16:46]	DogWomble Dollinger:	simon, if it's any help to the argument here, i am happy to help you with testing what happens when the slowdown is in place, so we can find out what actual effect it has rather than 'guessing' what will happen ahead of time
[16:46]	Bronson Blackadder:	good idea
[16:46]	Sindra Aquila:	so the whol;e idea of paying for a full sim that has full speed is going down the drain?
[16:47]	Moundsa Mayo:	Not at all.
[16:47]	Bronson Blackadder:	that would probably help for region crossings
[16:47]	Simon Linden:	No, we're trying to make them all work better
[16:47]	Sindra Aquila:	that is mainland, i tal;k of an island standalone
[16:47]	Moundsa Mayo:	You already only get what speed is available from that core in that server on that network segment.
[16:47]	Simon Linden:	SL is mostly empty, and that's a lot of hardware going to waste
[16:47]	Moon Metty:	very true, Simon
[16:47]	Liisa Runo:	scripts are alive!
[16:48]	xstorm Radek:	Sindra do you know how many mainland sims do not have any thing in them and your paying for that sims load on the server ?
[16:48]	Yuu Nakamichi:	save the planet SImon
[16:48]	Moon Metty:	and energy
[16:48]	Yuu Nakamichi:	:)
[16:48]	Sindra Aquila:	yes, but those houses are not used, i am talking not of mainland but of a private island
[16:48]	Yuu Nakamichi:	I'm with you
[16:48]	Moundsa Mayo:	Private island is not the same as private server.
[16:48]	Yuu Nakamichi:	maybe LL should buy shares in solar energy plants :)
[16:48]	xstorm Radek:	no its not
[16:48]	Simon Linden:	Remember the flip side is that your private island is sharing a server with 3 other regions. You'll run better if they are sleeping
[16:49]	Moundsa Mayo:	You wouldn't want to pay for a private server.
[16:49]	Sindra Aquila:	if the quality is going to be heavily effected adverse than the tier must be far less too
[16:49]	Simon Linden:	'cause it's likely 2 of them are empty
[16:49]	Moundsa Mayo:	Overall the quality would increase. Should tier then increase?
[16:49]	Moon Metty:	btw, we're on class 7 hardware, and we still get half of the script-time, compared to a class 5 region
[16:49]	Liisa Runo:	need new prim parameter "server prim" when enabled, even sim that dont have agents, will give loads of juice to the scripts in this object
[16:49]	Rex Cronon:	u can rent a private server for 100USD
[16:50]	xstorm Radek:	Sindra it will make your private sim run better if the other sims on your server is running slower
[16:50]	Sindra Aquila:	ok, i give up trying defend the private island sake
[16:50]	Simon Linden:	Moon - that's a really interesting point.
[16:50]	Moon Metty:	,
[16:50]	Moundsa Mayo:	A private server with SL and maintenance, Rex?
[16:50]	Moon Metty:	let me find the jira
[16:50]	xstorm Radek:	any way a class 5 is a bit old now do to many are now going class 7
[16:51]	Sindra Aquila:	and how do you know your sim is class 7 now?
[16:51]	Simon Linden:	right, no new class 5 hardware. The 7s are much nicer
[16:51]	xstorm Radek:	yes they are
[16:51]	xstorm Radek:	and im not permited to talk about it
[16:51]	Yuu Nakamichi:	what exactly entails class 7?
[16:51]	Simon Linden:	I think all the sim9xxx hosts are class 7s
[16:51]	Yuu Nakamichi:	is there are a spec somewhere?
[16:51]	Sindra Aquila:	so there was no warning or announcement of this?
[16:51]	Rex Cronon:	a reuglar server. not from sl
[16:52]	Moundsa Mayo:	Not germane to this discussion then.
[16:52]	xstorm Radek:	yes
[16:52]	Rex Cronon:	i was given it as an example that renting a server is not that pricy
[16:53]	Moundsa Mayo:	Right, but what we are renting here is a SERVICE, not just teh server.
[16:53]	Moon Metty:	phew i found it SVC-5040
[16:53]	Script performance	dropped on some regions since rolling restart (12 nov 2009)
[16:53]	Moundsa Mayo:	I agree with your point as intended. But no help for SL purposes.
[16:53]	Sindra Aquila:	well all finem but leaving tier same, but slowing a sim, well?
[16:53]	Moundsa Mayo:	It happens to you now, Sindra, because of other sims' loads on your server.
[16:54]	Moundsa Mayo:	With Simon's suggestioin, if it pans out, you'll get a FREE INCREASE in service.
[16:54]	Simon Linden:	And don't panic, even if we ever do something like that, it's not happening soon
[16:54]	Moon Metty:	:)
[16:54]	Sindra Aquila:	not if the sim is slowed
[16:54]	Bronson Blackadder:	only slow if you are not in it
[16:55]	DogWomble Dollinger:	sinda, onyl slowed if it's empty, if it works as intended i'm reading it as your sim ,ay work faster if there are agents in your sim
[16:55]	DogWomble Dollinger:	*may
[16:55]	Moundsa Mayo:	How would you even know? You wouldn't want to share the unused resources with others? hey already share theirs with you, anyway.
[16:55]	Sindra Aquila:	yes, but as it is it might not be fast restored to full use
[16:55]	Moundsa Mayo:	This would just make teh sharing more effective.
[16:55]	Sindra Aquila:	it is all depending on the speed of restoring sim when one enters it
[16:55]	Bronson Blackadder:	ok but when you tp into your sim do you instyantly rezz?
[16:56]	Bronson Blackadder:	see everything instantly?
[16:56]	Bronson Blackadder:	by the time you are rezzed the sim would probably but up to full throttle
[16:56]	Ardy Lay:	Hehe, the change Simon was proposing would reschedule twenty to 45 times per second.
[16:56]	Moon Metty:	if all extra processes can be handed off fast, yes
[16:57]	Sindra Aquila:	then it is no problem IF that really turns to be the case in practice
[16:57]	Bronson Blackadder:	well if they test it and it works great would you still be diametricly against it?
[16:57]	Sindra Aquila:	no
[16:58]	Moundsa Mayo:	Would you see a difference if it took 45 milliseconds to get back up to speed rather than 22.5?
[16:58]	Simon Linden:	The key will be to find all the events that mean "run at normal speed" ... Stuff like TP arrivals, someone looking into it from another region, http in, etc
[16:58]	Moundsa Mayo:	or even 90?
[16:58]	Moundsa Mayo:	That's 0.090 seconds ...
[16:58]	Rex Cronon:	if u have scripts on your sim that communicate with scripts on other sims u would see a difference
[16:58]	Sindra Aquila:	if it is really done as your icebox fine ofcoursem but sofar lots have gone wrong
[16:58]	xstorm Radek:	Sindra you do know that bandwith is not under LL control and if at points you lag or have large packet lost do to bad bandwith you will need to get a better provider ?
[16:59]	Sindra Aquila:	yes
[16:59]	Simon Linden:	We'd probably have to identify the LSL functions that would mean "stay at full speed"
[16:59]	Simon Linden:	Anyway, we're running out of time
[16:59]	Moundsa Mayo:	True, Rex. I can't think of systems that need such rapid response or high message rates when no-one is in a region, but theremay be such.
[16:59]	Sindra Aquila:	it is just that complocated things have a way to go wrong and not work out well, this might be one
[16:59]	Bronson Blackadder:	interesting discussion today simon, thanks :)
[17:00]	Moundsa Mayo:	Yes, Simon. Thanks.
[17:00]	Simon Linden:	Thanks for the good discussion ... I don't mean to make anyone fear the change. The whole reason it's not out already is because of discussions like this one
[17:00]	Moon Metty:	i like it when the group is not so big
[17:00]	Moon Metty:	:)
[17:00]	Simon Linden:	It's one of those simple ideas that gets interesting as you dig into the details
[17:00]	Moon Metty:	thanks Simon
[17:00]	xstorm Radek:	we can go back to wood block printing
[17:00]	Liisa Runo:	there is such things, you can make nice LSL servers to do loads of things
[17:01]	Simon Linden:	Thanks all for coming, and I'll see you next time
[17:01]	Sindra Aquila:	thanks simon
[17:01]	Yuu Nakamichi:	thanks Simon
[17:01]	Rex Cronon:	if u could make scripts that communicate with outside still work it will be better
[17:01]	DogWomble Dollinger:	ok catch you round simon
[17:01]	Moon Metty:	have a nice weekend :)
[17:01]	Moundsa Mayo:	But depending on low latency on such a widely distributed system is very risky.
[17:01]	Ardy Lay:	Bye Simon.
[17:01]	xstorm Radek:	thank you Simon
[17:01]	Simon Linden:	bye
[17:01]	Moon Metty:	bye
[17:01]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon and have a nice weekend
[17:01]	Moundsa Mayo:	Need to use handshake and fallback timeouts, not just simple timeouts.
[17:02]	xstorm Radek:	well im off to look at flowers

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