User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 07 30

Transcript

[15:59]	Ardy Lay:	Hello
[15:59]	Moon Metty:	hey everyone :)
[15:59]	DogWomble Dollinger:	hey moon
[15:59]	TheBlack Box:	hoi
[15:59]	Slee Mayo:	greetings earthlings
[15:59]	Latif Khalifa:	hi :)
[15:59]	Could not	find animation 'MDHUneowalk'
[15:59]	Moon Metty:	welcome to the woooorld of tomorrow!
[15:59]	Could not	find animation 'MDHUneowalk'.
[15:59]	TheBlack Box:	please ... weblings
[15:59]	Latif Khalifa:	FEF!
[15:59]	Moon Metty:	FEF!
[16:00]	reddot99 Republic:	hey andrew,
[16:00]	Slee Mayo	whispers: !stop
[16:00]	Latif Khalifa:	hello Andrew :)
[16:00]	Andrew Linden:	Hello everyone.
[16:00]	Sindra Aquila:	hi andrew
[16:00]	DogWomble Dollinger:	hey andrew
[16:00]	January Lightfoot:	urgs ,, hy all ,, mom
[16:00]	KittyCat Diesel:	◕‿◕
[16:00]	KittyCat Diesel:	hi andrew
[16:00]	Andrew Linden:	I'm back (from vacation)'
[16:00]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Andrew
[16:00]	Slee Mayo:	so, you survived vacation with the missis?
[16:00]	Could not	find animation 'MDHUneowalk'
[16:00]	Could not	find animation 'MDHUneowalk'.
[16:00]	KittyCat Diesel:	hope yu enjoyed it
[16:00]	Could not	find animation 'MDHUneowalk'
[16:00]	Could not	find animation 'MDHUneowalk'.
[16:00]	Sindra Aquila:	hope it was a very good one
[16:00]	reddot99 Republic:	how was it?
[16:00]	Moon Metty:	hi Andrew :)
[16:00]	Could not	find animation 'MDHUneowalk'
[16:00]	Could not	find animation 'MDHUneowalk'.
[16:00]	Could not	find animation 'MDHUneowalk'
[16:00]	Could not	find animation 'MDHUneowalk'.
[16:00]	Latif Khalifa:	Hope you had a great time :)
[16:01]	Moon Metty:	Simon took good care of us
[16:01]	DogWomble Dollinger:	let me guess andrew, you took a vacation to anywhere but orientation island :)
[16:01]	Moon Metty:	as always
[16:01]	Ardy Lay:	I think I remembered to post transcripts.
[16:01]	Slee Mayo:	he let us have lastweek's OH nekid
[16:01]	Psi Merlin:	Hi Andrew, everyone.
[16:01]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, I had a good vacation (to pacific northwest)
[16:01]	Latif Khalifa:	nice :)
[16:01]	Moon Metty:	sounds good
[16:01]	reddot99 Republic:	olympia national park area?
[16:01]	Liisa Runo:	did you bring me the stone from the pacific? or not uploaded yet?
[16:02]	Slee Mayo:	played in the sequoias?
[16:02]	Slee Mayo:	elisha richez lives there, she could've hooked you up with some nice smoke
[16:02]	Andrew Linden:	I stopped in Humboldt county (northern california with redwoods). I didn't go to the Olympics (Washington)
[16:03]	Andrew Linden:	I did visit Seattle briefly. That was fun. I used to live there.
[16:03]	Slee Mayo:	sequioa/redwood....good stuff
[16:03]	DogWomble Dollinger	gets out the chocolate and offers it to everyone
[16:03]	Latif Khalifa:	:)
[16:03]	Latif Khalifa:	thanks :)
[16:03]	Andrew Linden:	Ok I see someone was saying FEF (fast easy fun).
[16:03]	Slee Mayo:	no video of bigfoot?
[16:03]	Moon Metty:	hehehe
[16:03]	Latif Khalifa:	hehehe
[16:03]	Andrew Linden:	The new rally cry coming from Philip Linden.
[16:03]	Moundsa Mayo:	MmmmMMM!! Chocolate - perfect social lubricant!
[16:04]	Andrew Linden:	I'm on a team working on "Fast" right now.
[16:04]	Sindra Aquila:	fast meaning what?
[16:04]	Moon Metty:	fast , difficult and tedious
[16:04]	Latif Khalifa:	fast rezzing? interest lists overhaul?
[16:04]	Slee Mayo:	fast != g-team
[16:04]	DogWomble Dollinger:	fast logon?
[16:04]	Andrew Linden:	We're focusing on speeding up the server side of things. That will certainly be the focus of server-1.44
[16:05]	Sindra Aquila:	it seems have worked in some sims, they seem have improved a whole lot lately
[16:05]	Andrew Linden:	Almost everything for 1.42 is already written. Testing has started, I believe -- it is deployed to aditi (beta grid).
[16:05]	Ardy Lay:	I hear we are getting HTTP textures SOON.
[16:05]	Slee Mayo:	i saw a post on status blog for 1.42 first week of august
[16:05]	Latif Khalifa:	Ardy, next week
[16:05]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, the HTTP texture stuff will be released soon.
[16:05]	Latif Khalifa:	need viewer 2.1 to enjoy though
[16:05]	reddot99 Republic:	when will we get multithreading on the veiwer's end?
[16:06]	Ardy Lay:	I got a note from Oskar inviting me to test it now.
[16:06]	Andrew Linden:	I belive it is functional in the servers. We'll be releasing a viewer that has HTTP textures enabled.
[16:06]	TheBlack Box:	Andrew: do you know if anyone at LL is paying attention to http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703292704575393531040685308.html  ?
[16:06]	TheBlack Box:	Googles attac on facebook .. and the gaming aspect of it ?
[16:06]	Andrew Linden:	No TheBlack, I haven't seen that article yet.
[16:07]	Slee Mayo:	google/facebook == big brother
[16:07]	Latif Khalifa:	Andrew, so what part of "fast" are you working on? Please tell me its the interest lists :)
[16:07]	Sindra Aquila:	yes
[16:07]	Ardy Lay:	Hehe, "We don't need two facebooks." Well, I don't need ONE facebook. :-)
[16:07]	Andrew Linden:	I'll read it later. You want to summarize how it applies to LL for me?
[16:07]	TheBlack Box:	if google me would come with automatic SL account ... that could be big
[16:07]	Andrew Linden:	Oh. Social gaming?
[16:07]	Ardy Lay:	Yes, I wanna hear about "interest list".
[16:07]	TheBlack Box:	"Google Me" ... or whatever the name will be
[16:08]	Andrew Linden:	Lots of people are excited about the social games of FB.
[16:08]	Andrew Linden:	I understand they make a lot of money for some companies.
[16:08]	Slee Mayo:	i saw facebooks farming, looks cool, but i'd neve join facebook
[16:08]	TheBlack Box:	read the article .. google seems to plan to take over all that social gaming biz ... and i think they can beat fb
[16:08]	Sindra Aquila:	as lomg as it it remains a choice, i mfor one am dead set against it
[16:08]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not very interested in the FB games personally, so I haven't been paying attention
[16:08]	Ardy Lay:	Lots of people think it's fun to blow horns in their neighbors ears too.
[16:08]	Andrew Linden:	except to ignore them FB settings
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	There are also headlines about how social networks could just become standard protocols that stack and distribute.
[16:09]	TheBlack Box:	just imagine every "Google Me" user could log into SL without going through the hassle of making an extra account etc ...
[16:09]	Slee Mayo:	ti's a trap!
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	The "FB is going to go like AOL" prediction.
[16:09]	Sindra Aquila:	yes
[16:10]	Andrew Linden:	As to what we're doing for "fast".
[16:10]	Moon Metty:	yes
[16:10]	Andrew Linden:	There is already some work being done to improve rezzing of objects in the simulator, to reduce the spikes caused by big rezzes.
[16:10]	Andrew Linden:	Some more work there is going to wait for the current work to complete and ship.
[16:11]	Sindra Aquila:	does this have effect on bounce too? it seems have impropved on several sims
[16:11]	Andrew Linden:	We've got a couple people looking at the interestlist code... but mostly just cleanup and learning right now, no major changes there currently in development.
[16:11]	Andrew Linden:	But we'll start an overhaul soon... maybe in time for 1.46.
[16:12]	Andrew Linden:	I had a little adventure with a "performance" bug today.
[16:12]	Latif Khalifa:	that's too bad because perceived rez speed depends greatly on nearby stuff appearig first
[16:12]	Slee Mayo:	which one?
[16:12]	Andrew Linden:	Turns out the viewer is not successfully caching object geometry data...
[16:13]	Andrew Linden:	it is supposed to cache the pos/shape of objects in a particular region to a file
[16:13]	reddot99 Republic:	latif, i think he means llRezObject or dragged from inventory rezzing
[16:13]	Andrew Linden:	but it is misnaming the file and trying to load a file by a different name --> nothing gets cached
[16:13]	Moon Metty:	oops
[16:13]	Latif Khalifa:	eh
[16:13]	Andrew Linden:	which is why when you logout of a region, then right back in all objects have to reload
[16:13]	Simon Kline:	wow
[16:13]	Moon Metty:	hi Simon :)
[16:14]	Andrew Linden:	so... there is a workaround should any of you want to try it...
[16:14]	Sindra Aquila:	hi simon
[16:14]	Simon Linden:	Hello
[16:14]	KittyCat Diesel:	◕‿◕
[16:14]	KittyCat Diesel:	hi simon
[16:14]	DogWomble Dollinger:	hey simon
[16:14]	reddot99 Republic:	you all only now noticed that?
[16:14]	Simon Kline:	hi simon o/
[16:14]	DogWomble Dollinger:	andrew, is that a bug that affects 1.23?
[16:14]	DogWomble Dollinger:	coz if it is i'd be happy to test it for you
[16:14]	reddot99 Republic:	that one has affected every veiwer i've ever seem
[16:14]	Andrew Linden:	yes DogWomble. The bug is older than 1.23!
[16:14]	reddot99 Republic:	seen
[16:14]	Ardy Lay:	I would like to try the work around.
[16:14]	Moundsa Mayo:	ANd I
[16:14]	Sindra Aquila:	also snowglobe?
[16:14]	Kaluura Boa:	And me
[16:15]	Slee Mayo:	rusty trombone?
[16:15]	DogWomble Dollinger:	andrew, give me the workaround and i'll test it for you ;)
[16:15]	Andrew Linden:	so... there is a directory where the cache files are stored...
[16:15]	Andrew Linden:	on windows it would be something like:
[16:15]	DogWomble Dollinger:	might also be worthwhile giving some 'undo' info, that way i can do better testing for you with and without
[16:15]	Andrew Linden:	C:Documents and SettingsUSERLocal SettingsApplication DataSecondLife
[16:16]	Andrew Linden:	inside that directory are files called sobjects_XXX_YYY.slc
[16:16]	reddot99 Republic:	/Users/reddot99/Library/Caches/SecondLife for mac i think
[16:16]	DogWomble Dollinger:	hang on, i'm just trying to translate that to the path on windows 7 :0
[16:16]	Andrew Linden:	if you were to write a "scheduled task" that changes the names of those files to "objects_XXX_YYY.slc" whenever you logout of SL
[16:16]	Andrew Linden:	then your caching would start to work
[16:17]	DogWomble Dollinger:	ok i think i've found it - c:users[me]appdatalocalsecondlife
[16:17]	reddot99 Republic:	so its just oneletter?
[16:17]	Andrew Linden:	that is, there is a typo... an 's' at the beginning of the filename that shouldnt' be there
[16:17]	Kaluura Boa:	I have tons of them...
[16:17]	Kaluura Boa:	ROFL
[16:17]	Slee Mayo:	those are your copybot files, kal
[16:17]	DogWomble Dollinger:	aaah ok :) i've found the files in question
[16:17]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well spotted Andrew
[16:17]	DogWomble Dollinger:	sobjects_xxx_yyy.slc
[16:17]	Flight Band:	All Go
[16:17]	Kaluura Boa:	Lot of work!
[16:18]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, I expect that to be fixed soon, maybe even with HTTP texture download, if our #release team is on the ball
[16:18]	DogWomble Dollinger:	andrew, i'll do a bit of performance testing for you both before and after file rename :)
[16:18]	Andrew Linden:	I'm going to start optimizing some terrain collisions next week
[16:19]	Andrew Linden:	that is one of the hot spots that remain in our physics engine that Falcon Linden has identified
[16:19]	Andrew Linden:	a holdover from H4
[16:19]	Slee Mayo:	DOS: RENAME [drive:][path][directoryname1 | filename1] [directoryname2 | filename2]
[16:19]	Andrew Linden:	that is, it is caused by our own code rather than the Havok engine itself.
[16:19]	Jure Flux:	do you order a stripper
[16:19]	Ardy Lay:	C:lindenprojects2009snowglobetrunkindranewviewllviewerregion.cpp(374): llformat("sobjects_%d_%d.slc", U32(mHandle>>32)/REGION_WIDTH_UNITS, U32(mHandle)/REGION_WIDTH_UNITS );
[16:19]	Ardy Lay:	That it?
[16:19]	reddot99 Republic:	ardy found the bug in the source code
[16:20]	Techwolf Lupindo:	so the fix is to rename the files once?
[16:20]	Andrew Linden:	yes Ardy. If you build your own viewer you can fix it yourself.
[16:20]	Ardy Lay:	Fixing it now.
[16:20]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Ardy, Patch please.
[16:20]	Liisa Runo:	rename the files every time you log off
[16:20]	Ardy Lay:	Andrew, is there a JIRA already?
[16:20]	Andrew Linden:	No Techwolf. You have to rename the files everytime you quit SL.
[16:20]	Jure Flux:	hello nice alien
[16:21]	Latif Khalifa:	or patch the viewer ;)
[16:21]	Andrew Linden:	Ardy, there is an internal jira, and it is already fixed in a code branch.
[16:21]	reddot99 Republic:	a jira would be nice, then can redirect people to that
[16:21]	Slee Mayo:	i'm only nice when liquored up, but hi
[16:21]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Latif, is that related to the cache bug we was seeing an hour earler?
[16:21]	Ardy Lay:	Ah, okay.
[16:21]	Moon Metty:	i wonder if this can be related VWR-20382
[16:21]	Incomplete login	(due to cache corruption?)
[16:21]	Latif Khalifa:	Tech, no
[16:21]	Andrew Linden:	I was just mentioning the theoretical workaround. It should work -- I never implemented such a workaround.
[16:22]	Liisa Runo:	(offtopic: Andrew was it you who said that LL starts to add some non-security realted things to mainstream client?)
[16:22]	reddot99 Republic:	could said internal jira be moved to public jira?
[16:22]	Techwolf Lupindo:	wow...bug being find left and right....wheee....:-)
[16:22]	Liisa Runo:	related*
[16:22]	Andrew Linden:	No. There is another "cache" file also known as the "VFS" (Virtual File System).
[16:22]	Andrew Linden:	I think the corrupt cache refers to that.
[16:22]	Andrew Linden:	The textures are stored in the VFS, I think.
[16:22]	Slee Mayo:	table
[16:22]	reddot99 Republic:	isnt that what organizes the other caches?
[16:23]	Andrew Linden:	Are they still stored in the VFS for HTTP textures Simon? Do you know?
[16:23]	Morgaine Dinova:	Is the structure of the cache described anywhere, Andrew?
[16:23]	Andrew Linden:	Morgaine, the structure of what cahce?
[16:23]	Morgaine Dinova:	Viewer cache
[16:23]	Andrew Linden:	The source code is the only documentation that I know of.
[16:24]	Andrew Linden:	But there are two cache systems I know of: VFS, and the objects_XXX_YYY.slc files
[16:24]	Morgaine Dinova:	Source code is not documentation. Source code contains bugs, so clearly it's not documenting the design.
[16:25]	Morgaine Dinova:	It's one cache, in the sense that it lives in ~/.secondlife/cache
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	Um... if there were a "specification" then perhaps the code would be incorrect documentation.
[16:25]	Morgaine Dinova:	Just various parts to it
[16:25]	Moundsa Mayo:	If there are no design documents, then the source IS the design, whether or not it implements the intended functionality.
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	However, when there is no spec, then the code is the documentation.
[16:25]	Moundsa Mayo:	JINX!
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	Any text doc that tried to tell you what the code was doing would have the "bugs".
[16:26]	Morgaine Dinova:	Andrew: well ya can't work that way. Not as a professional outfit.
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	I've been JINXED.
[16:26]	Moon Metty:	lol
[16:26]	Latif Khalifa:	hahaha
[16:26]	Moundsa Mayo:	Hmm. Can, but it shifts inefficiencies.
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	I side with Moundsa.
[16:26]	Moundsa Mayo:	Nah, just means i am owed a Coke due to duplicate statement B^)
[16:27]	Morgaine Dinova:	I side with professional engineering. And you need to as well, really.
[16:27]	Latif Khalifa:	do you know if mono version upgrade is scheduled for 1.44 as well?
[16:27]	reddot99 Republic:	that would really help
[16:27]	Andrew Linden:	No Latif, I don't know the status of that. I'll have to ask Kelly or Babbage.
[16:27]	Moundsa Mayo:	Degree of methodology complexity is determined directly by resources provided, though.
[16:27]	Arawn Spitteler	imagines Second Life produced by the same intellect that crafted Shakespeare, with a million cubicals, in which monkeys hit their keys at random.
[16:27]	Latif Khalifa:	that's not FEF! :P
[16:28]	Moon Metty:	hi Arawn
[16:28]	reddot99 Republic:	lol arawn
[16:28]	Andrew Linden:	I'll be talking to Babbage later today. Maybe I'll ask him then.
[16:28]	DogWomble Dollinger:	arawn: question == (2 * b)	!(2 * b) ???
[16:28]	Arawn Spitteler:	True
[16:28]	Slee Mayo:	having midas muffle commercial flashbacks now
[16:29]	Moon Metty:	there's currently a batch process going on on the JIRA where many imported and assigned reports are resolved as "won't finish"
[16:29]	Moon Metty:	one of those is svc-93
[16:29]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[16:29]	Slee Mayo:	that is the wuestion, dog
[16:29]	Moon Metty:	how did that happen?
[16:29]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, I think I saw someone close a bug that was assigned to me as "Won't Finish".
[16:29]	Ardy Lay:	SNOW-783 is where I shal document my efforts, Andrew.
[16:29]	Object cache	files being written with a filename that is not being used when attempting to read them.
[16:30]	Moon Metty:	i know you have 2 possible fixes for svc-93 :)
[16:30]	Latif Khalifa:	"Linden Lab is planning to upgrade to JIRA 4. As part of this process, we will be reviewing all issues filed to determine which are relevant to our most recent server release, 1.40. All Bugs with Affects Versions of 1.38 or earlier will be automatically closed, as we work to maintain our focus on only those issues relating to the current release. If you have filed a Bug that has been closed, and you know that the problem still occurs in 1.40 then please update the 'Affects Versions' field with the supported versions in which you have observed the problem, and re-open the issue."
[16:30]	DogWomble Dollinger:	what i might do is if my testing reveals performance improvements, i might dig out my old copy of VB6 and just put together a utility that the less computer literate can use to automagically fix up their cache
[16:30]	Latif Khalifa:	Sue Linden
[16:30]	Andrew Linden:	Oh yeah Moon.
[16:31]	Latif Khalifa:	and 1.40 has just been released a couple of days ago lol
[16:31]	Latif Khalifa:	so basically all svc-xxx bugs are purged
[16:31]	Andrew Linden:	While on vacation I had a moment on the computer and cleaned up the solution for SVC-93 that I'll be submitting for review next week.
[16:31]	Andrew Linden:	This is the plan:
[16:31]	Moon Metty:	will it be the regioanal coords?
[16:31]	Moon Metty:	regional
[16:32]	Andrew Linden:	No, I'll be adding a local-frame method for llSetPrimitiveParams() and its ilk.
[16:32]	Andrew Linden:	So, I think it will be called PRIM_ROT_LOCAL_FRAME
[16:32]	Moon Metty:	oh
[16:32]	reddot99 Republic:	that sounds reasonable enough
[16:32]	Latif Khalifa:	yeah, that's what we need
[16:32]	Andrew Linden:	and will apply to the individual prims only, even the root prim
[16:33]	Liisa Runo:	PRIM_ROT_LOCAL not enough long name for it?
[16:33]	Moon Metty:	but llGetLinkPrimitiveParams is all in regional, right?
[16:33]	Andrew Linden:	that is, it won't rotate the whole linked object when applied to the root prim, unless the object is only one prim
[16:33]	Kaluura Boa:	Bleh! Why such a long name?
[16:33]	Andrew Linden:	but the rotations will be set and get in the local frame
[16:33]	Moundsa Mayo:	Because it is highly and unambiguously descriptive.
[16:34]	Kaluura Boa:	Too descriptive...
[16:34]	DogWomble Dollinger:	better than just calling it 'A'
[16:34]	Andrew Linden:	Well, I'm thinking we may add PRIM_ROT_REGION_FRAME eventually
[16:34]	reddot99 Republic:	wait, can you add second varible to it, as a rotate around <x,y,z> locally?
[16:34]	Moundsa Mayo:	Not in rigorous methodology B^)
[16:34]	Andrew Linden:	reddot99 what do you mean "locally"?
[16:35]	reddot99 Republic:	to finally give us a way to rotate around a certain point within the object?
[16:35]	Andrew Linden:	in this case LOCAL_FRAME is actually the "OBJECT_FRAME"
[16:35]	Andrew Linden:	but there are already some LSL methods that refer to the object frame as "local"
[16:35]	Moon Metty:	yes
[16:35]	Techwolf Lupindo:	cd ~/.secondlife/cache ; rename sobjects objects sobjects* ;
[16:35]	Andrew Linden:	there is another useful frame... the frame of the prim itself
[16:35]	Andrew Linden:	perhaps that is what you were asking for reddot99?
[16:36]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I believe that is the linux fix there.
[16:36]	reddot99 Republic:	no, lemme show you
[16:37]	reddot99 Republic:	i want to rotate the greenish prim, and have it move a distance based on the rotation
[16:37]	reddot99 Republic:	sorta like that, but not affecting root prim
[16:37]	Andrew Linden:	oh. you want a rotation about some other offset
[16:37]	Andrew Linden:	well you know what...
[16:37]	reddot99 Republic:	it'd be logical to add to the local frame
[16:38]	Rex Cronon:	greetings all. sorry for being late
[16:38]	Elisha Richez:	ditto
[16:38]	Slee Mayo:	hi lish
[16:38]	Elisha Richez:	hey
[16:38]	Andrew Linden:	I had originally gone crazy and added three different rotations frames: REGION, OBJECT, and LOCAL (where LOCAL was to the actual prim) plus a rotation for rotating the entire object about any prim center
[16:38]	reddot99 Republic:	lol
[16:39]	Moon Metty:	hehe
[16:39]	reddot99 Republic:	i'd rather it rotate around vector offset
[16:39]	Andrew Linden:	however the other LL dev that reviewed it thought it too complicated for now, so I scaled it back to just address the real limitation/problem of SVC-93
[16:39]	Slee Mayo:	i;m going to have to start smoking weed again to comprehend this
[16:39]	Rex Cronon:	the problem was that at some specific rotations for the root, the links didn't rotate right around their centers
[16:39]	Moon Metty:	well, it's good to see it fixed Andrew
[16:40]	Andrew Linden:	I isn't fixed in server-1.42. I'll try to get it past review next week, so maybe 1.44.
[16:40]	Moon Metty:	Arawn will agree with that :D
[16:40]	Andrew Linden:	Right now we'll be focusing on "Fast".
[16:40]	Andrew Linden:	Er... my team anyway.
[16:40]	Arawn Spitteler:	As I recall, it was the impenitrable code, that's the problem. I'd expect the rotations to wander excessively, if the Region could be rotated.
[16:41]	Andrew Linden:	Maybe by 1.46 we'll put some attention to "Easy" and "Fun".
[16:41]	reddot99 Republic:	the famous list of easy and quick fixes?
[16:41]	DogWomble Dollinger:	no, the famous list of easy fixes that are fun to fix :)
[16:41]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hasn't that been resolved as Won't Fix?
[16:42]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, MISC-3077 and such. Still on my todo list, but not part of "fast"
[16:42]	List of	Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions With Large Returns
[16:42]	Andrew Linden:	so hard to justify working on it right now when the focus is elsewhere
[16:43]	reddot99 Republic:	that'd be on the 1.46 server i guess?
[16:43]	Andrew Linden:	Somehow I doubt we'll have any MISC-3077 work done in 1.46. Maybe, but unlikely.
[16:44]	reddot99 Republic:	also, can i get an explaination why max speed of a rezzed object has been cut to 202.x meters per second all of a sudden?
[16:44]	Slee Mayo:	falcon's phys protection?
[16:44]	Andrew Linden:	instead of what? what was the old max speed?
[16:44]	reddot99 Republic:	250
[16:45]	Andrew Linden:	Falcon had an explanation for that. Let me see if I can remember what it was...
[16:45]	Moon Metty:	that's fast
[16:45]	Moundsa Mayo:	Air resistance added B^)
[16:45]	Slee Mayo:	no new phys to be rezzed until server catches up
[16:45]	Slee Mayo:	...something like that
[16:45]	Simon Linden:	feet, not meters?
[16:45]	Andrew Linden:	I think he said that Havok4 also imposed a 200 m/sec limit on object motion, but maybe only applied it upon collisions, or something.
[16:46]	Andrew Linden:	whereas Havok7 actually applies the limit in the "integration" step of the physics engine.
[16:46]	reddot99 Republic:	maybe, but i have collision reports of 250 meters per second
[16:46]	reddot99 Republic:	havok 4 appeared to have applied the 250 m/s limit in the same step as havok 7 does
[16:46]	Andrew Linden:	I'll have to re-ask Falcon what is up with any max speed changes then.
[16:47]	Liisa Runo:	i have those 250m/sec reports too, but i believe it is bug somewhere, not at all sure if the object really move that fast
[16:47]	Slee Mayo:	luckily we haven't had but a few phys attacks in the sandboxes since upgrade
[16:47]	Slee Mayo:	still waiting to test
[16:48]	Andrew Linden:	the phys engine kinda runs separately from the code that sends the position/speed updates to the viewer
[16:48]	Andrew Linden:	the data between them is synced each simulator frame (1/45th of a second usually)
[16:48]	Elisha Richez:	the other day i saw a replicator prim attack in goguen and cordova and the prims just compacted and froze physics till mae linden came and cleaned up
[16:48]	reddot99 Republic:	the collision reports were from llDetectedVel()
[16:48]	Slee Mayo:	oh, i've been noticing lots of froze/ghosted avs as well
[16:48]	Andrew Linden:	if the InterestList code thought the object was moving at 250 it would report so
[16:49]	Andrew Linden:	until the physics engine changed the speed and the InterestList's notion of the speed were updated
[16:49]	Rex Cronon:	there is something not so good going on. "attacks" that previously caused only temporary lag now can keep sims fps at 3 or lower for quite a while
[16:49]	Andrew Linden:	so I could see how there might be some reports of 250 m/sec but not actually moving that fast.
[16:49]	Liisa Runo:	the 250m/sec sometimes get reported when object is rezzed to 200m/sec llDetactedVel() with sensor, phantom object non colliding
[16:49]	Elisha Richez:	i agree with rex
[16:50]	reddot99 Republic:	i've tested with my artillery in the past and reached 250 on both up and down in the arc
[16:50]	Rex Cronon:	and no we also have chat lag:(
[16:50]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... Rex, do you know what tricks are being used in these attacks?
[16:51]	Andrew Linden:	same old tricks that just cause more lag?
[16:51]	Rex Cronon:	just physical prims bounding on one antoher ,a nd intersecting with NP prims
[16:51]	Rex Cronon:	bouncing*
[16:51]	Slee Mayo:	could it be lag holding the object for a bit then letting go and the object trying to catchup to where it should be causing the high m reading?
[16:52]	Andrew Linden:	well, that would fall under the "fast" category of things I'm supposed to be working on
[16:52]	Elisha Richez:	not much to them andrew....so far its only seemed to take a simple fast replicating 10x10 cube.....physics freeze so fast that they compact and don't scatter causing the sim to stuff up till cleaned.
[16:52]	Andrew Linden:	so if anyone has a reliable sim-bomb that drags the region to 3fps indefinitely I'd be interested in getting my hands on it.
[16:52]	Slee Mayo:	haha, it's friday night, come to goguen
[16:52]	reddot99 Republic:	i can supply that given enough people
[16:53]	Andrew Linden:	You need lots of people reddot99?
[16:53]	Rex Cronon:	the worse part is that chat is proportionally laged:(
[16:53]	reddot99 Republic:	30 people in a simulator with damage enabled and most but not all with homepoints set
[16:53]	Slee Mayo:	yes, lots of backward text lately
[16:54]	reddot99 Republic:	wait, it was 60, region was full
[16:54]	Andrew Linden:	I wonder what changed to affect chat.
[16:54]	Andrew Linden:	I don't really have a theory on that one yet.
[16:54]	Rex Cronon:	oh. and something might be wrong with listen, or llmessage link
[16:54]	DogWomble Dollinger:	andrew, i have noticed a bit of chat lag myself the last few days
[16:54]	Elisha Richez:	thats a bit extreme compared to what we see at goguen red
[16:55]	Latif Khalifa:	it's been like that forever, chat out of order i mean
[16:55]	DogWomble Dollinger:	even on sims that have relatively small nubmers of people on them
[16:55]	reddot99 Republic:	ah, but the part freezing it up was from all the rezzers
[16:55]	Moon Metty:	the worst chatlag i ever noticed was 8 minutes
[16:55]	Pauline Darkfury:	script events peaking at around 2000eps for this sim, seems quite high for 3134 scripts, could be the source of chat lag
[16:55]	Morgaine Dinova:	Philip mentioned in his talk today that group chat was going to be removed from the sim's proxy duties. I don't suppose that's anywhere near on the horizon, is it?
[16:55]	Slee Mayo:	we've been experienced the backwards chat lately with very low agents, prim count, active scripts running
[16:56]	reddot99 Republic:	remember, each person has at least 4 or 5 rezzers firing as fast as possible
[16:56]	Rex Cronon:	there were times when there were over 6000 scripts and lag wasn't affected teh way it is now
[16:56]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, fixes for Group Chat are in the works.
[16:56]	Elisha Richez:	woe crazy
[16:56]	Morgaine Dinova:	I mean that redesign, not fixes.
[16:56]	Slee Mayo:	i might joing a group now!
[16:56]	Rex Cronon:	and chat wasn't affected*
[16:56]	Elisha Richez:	i got used to it being broken years ago
[16:57]	Andrew Linden:	Dunno when they'll be done, but I believe they are looking into linking some IRC or XMPP libs to the viewer, and running a big stack of chat servers on the server-side
[16:57]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Don't say that Andrew, you Jinx it.
[16:57]	Elisha Richez:	lolz
[16:57]	reddot99 Republic:	lol, switch groupchat to irc?
[16:57]	Morgaine Dinova:	KK, tnx Andrew. Didn't really expect it to be any time soon.
[16:57]	Slee Mayo:	@ban elisha
[16:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	Isn't the whole of reality based on IRC?
[16:57]	Slee Mayo:	yes
[16:58]	Andrew Linden:	Just sayin. While on vacation I stopped at the house of the LL dev working on that. He was telling me all about the tradeoffs between IRC protocol and XMPP
[16:58]	Slee Mayo:	oh lish, that was andrew's tent you saw pitched in your backyard lastweek
[16:58]	reddot99 Republic:	what was he leaning towards?
[16:58]	Ardy Lay:	Andrew, respond to ARs for replicating object litter. You can get a lot of stuff that way.
[16:58]	Moon Metty:	you workaholic
[16:58]	Elisha Richez:	are we talking about camping or somthing sexual
[16:58]	Slee Mayo:	thank you ardy, especially sandboxes
[16:58]	Moundsa Mayo:	When you need a fix, you need a fix.
[16:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	I'm currently working on an alerts system using the IRC protocol. I have to periodically wipe the vomit off my keyboard.
[16:58]	Slee Mayo:	we've been neglected for weeks now
[16:59]	Andrew Linden:	Ardy. Could you elaborate on that "AR's --> stuff" statement?
[16:59]	reddot99 Republic:	and ardy has a point, force the owner to you for acouple of them and you can get the majority of possible crashers
[16:59]	reddot99 Republic:	or lagbombs
[16:59]	Ardy Lay:	Andrew, the objects they are telling you kill region performance do squirt out onto the rest of the continent and collect abuse reports.
[16:59]	Slee Mayo:	andrew,,,,seriously....the public sandboxes are a disgrace these days....20 people can AR....still nothing fdone
[16:59]	Andrew Linden:	Ah I see.
[17:00]	Andrew Linden:	Troll the AR reports for a source of sim bombs.
[17:00]	Moon Metty:	yeah
[17:00]	Ardy Lay:	Yes!!!
[17:00]	Ardy Lay:	Would be most educational and productive.
[17:00]	Moundsa Mayo:	And FEF!
[17:00]	reddot99 Republic:	and if you find a particularly good one, use god powers to grab it
[17:00]	Moon Metty:	lol
[17:01]	Sindra Aquila:	please also for attacks that freeze physical objects
[17:01]	Quake Monitor:	M 2.9, Alaska Peninsula - 58.630°N 156.250°W - Friday, July 30, 2010 23:40:57 UTC
[17:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	lol
[17:01]
[17:01]	Elisha Richez:	the ones that seem to work best are blue and red and they are scripted to replicate and change prim size settings.
[17:01]	reddot99 Republic:	that the irc based alert system?
[17:01]	Slee Mayo:	yes, sindra, the phys attacks that reach grey goo freeze
[17:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	No, that's not mine.
[17:01]	Latif Khalifa:	the viewer team should also before releaseing a new viewer spend 24 hrs lurking around morris / ahern info hub, if it survives, ship it ! xD
[17:02]	Slee Mayo:	haha, ahern
[17:02]	Slee Mayo:	troll city
[17:02]	reddot99 Republic:	dont forget rausch and the like
[17:02]	Sindra Aquila:	i heard that maninly the use of neillife is used for these attacks, relible way of spotting it might help lot
[17:02]	reddot99 Republic:	there you have people trying to crasheachother and or the sim
[17:02]	Slee Mayo:	phys attacks, sindra?
[17:03]	Moundsa Mayo:	Dibs on pick of the litter, Moon!
[17:03]	Elisha Richez:	well...neil life has capability to drop 1000's of prims of your choice with push of button
[17:03]	Moon Metty:	:)
[17:03]	Sindra Aquila:	no, freezing of arrows and the like in flight or other physical objects, then stopping completely and hanging in the air
[17:03]	Slee Mayo:	oh, i wouldn't know
[17:04]	Slee Mayo:	...about neil
[17:04]	reddot99 Republic:	thats from too many collisions at once sindra
[17:04]	Rex Cronon:	there r some weird looking tortured prims that can slow sim down, and your fps
[17:04]	Slee Mayo:	rapid shapeshifting prim = mass lag
[17:04]	reddot99 Republic:	supposedly theres a couple that can burn video cards out
[17:04]	Slee Mayo:	especially torus
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	I'm going to have to bow out of OH now. Gotta go drinking with some LL colleagues.
[17:04]	Kaluura Boa:	SL is starting to fill with legends...
[17:04]	Latif Khalifa:	yeah and make baby unicorns cry :P
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	I have to run ... thanks all for coming this week, see you next time
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks for coming everyone.
[17:04]	Slee Mayo:	atta boy, andrew!
[17:04]	Elisha Richez:	thanks you two
[17:05]	Moundsa Mayo:	Thanks Andrew and Simon!
[17:05]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew and wb
[17:05]	Latif Khalifa:	Andrew, thanks for your time, and have fun :)
[17:05]	Moon Metty:	thanks for the meeting Andrew :)
[17:05]	Moon Metty:	and Simon
[17:05]	Latif Khalifa:	Simon, thanks, enjoy your weekend :)
[17:05]	Simon Linden:	bye all
[17:05]	DogWomble Dollinger:	catch you round andrew :)
[17:05]	Sindra Aquila:	by andrew
[17:05]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon
[17:05]	Moon Metty:	bye!
[17:05]	DogWomble Dollinger:	see ya simon
[17:05]	Pauline Darkfury:	take care :)
[17:05]	Ardy Lay:	Bye Simon and Andrew
[17:05]	Slee Mayo:	OH, one more thing, could you ask the g-team to stop suspended me for spanking griefers?
[17:05]	reddot99 Republic:	see ya. maybe you'll get a brilliiant idea while drinking and write it on a napkin or something :p
[17:05]	Latif Khalifa:	hehe
[17:06]	Rex Cronon:	lol slee, the griefers ARe u:)
[17:06]	Moon Metty:	lol Reddot
[17:06]	Elisha Richez:	uh oh rex....them sound like fightin words rofl
[17:06]	Ardy Lay:	I eject and return. I am sure they AR me for that but that just supports my case against them.
[17:07]	Slee Mayo:	i'm serious...sandboxes get attacking on the hour...trying to clean them up...someone might get bumped my my sim cleaner and report me...*poof*...suspension for assualt....wtf?
[17:07]	Rex Cronon:	that is weird. u getting suspended and they getting nothing
[17:07]	Elisha Richez:	normal tho
[17:07]	Kaluura Boa	whispers: Zombie Girl?
[17:07]	Liisa Runo:	!
[17:07]	Latif Khalifa	waves "take care you all" :)
[17:08]	Kaluura Boa:	=^_^=
[17:08]	Elisha Richez:	c u
[17:08]	Rex Cronon:	tc lativ
[17:08]	Slee Mayo:	cyaz
[17:08]	Kaluura Boa:	It works every time
[17:08]	Rex Cronon:	latif*
[17:08]	Niel Control:	bye guys
[17:08]	Ardy Lay:	Hmm... Guess I should try this object cache fix to see what happens. TTFN.
[17:08]	Moundsa Mayo:	See you, Latif
[17:08]	Kaluura Boa:	I have work to do... 5 minutes then pillow...
[17:08]	Slee Mayo	shouts: zaombie girl, kal?
[17:08]	Moon Metty:	oik Ardy :)

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