User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 09 14

Transcript

[11:00]	Simon Linden:	hello
[11:00]	Moon Metty:	hi hi
[11:00]	carmel Brandi:	hello,Simon
[11:00]	Moon Metty:	how's life?
[11:00]	Simon Linden:	Andrew should be here soon
[11:01]	Simon Linden:	Things are good enough ... still working :)
[11:01]	Moon Metty:	:)
[11:01]	Ardy Lay:	Hi
[11:01]	Moon Metty:	yep, we'll survive
[11:01]	Moon Metty:	hey Andrew
[11:01]	Rex Cronon:	hi everybody
[11:01]	Rex Cronon:	we will survive what?
[11:01]	Andrew Linden:	hello
[11:01]	Rex Cronon:	hi andrew
[11:01]	carmel Brandi:	hello,Andrew
[11:02]	2408 Alekseev:	hello, Andrew:)
[11:02]	2408 Alekseev:	heloo, rex:)
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	Let's see... do we have any news?
[11:02]	Rex Cronon:	hi 2408
[11:03]	carmel Brandi:	Andrew,I'm having difficulty on my acct
[11:03]	Simon Linden:	The new 'Blue Steel' RC candidate went out this morning
[11:03]	Simon Linden:	it has a new versioning system, but is essentially 1.42.1
[11:03]	Cummere Mayo:	blue steel?
[11:03]	Moon Metty:	yes, why the name?
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... code names, but basically a few bug fixes.
[11:04]	Ardy Lay:	Zoolander ...
[11:04]	Cummere Mayo:	this a server version?
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	The release people came up with these code names for the three channels
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	It's a new server version with a few bug fixes
[11:04]	Moon Metty:	so the names are fixed?
[11:04]	carmel Brandi:	hello???
[11:05]	Cummere Mayo:	carmel im me
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	carmel, state your acct difficulty, however we're probably not the lindens to fix it.
[11:05]	carmel Brandi:	first issue is I'm naked to everyone,unless i wear *sculpties
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	Does this "blue steele" mean I need to come up with a code name for my maint-server work?
[11:06]	carmel Brandi:	that's the biggest issue
[11:06]	Ardy Lay:	http://www.ehow.com/how_2286058_do-blue-steel-pose-from.html
[11:06]	Tillie Ariantho:	Andrew: haha, yup. :P
[11:06]	Simon Linden:	No Andrew, your code ends up in one of the three channels
[11:06]	Moon Metty:	Soylent Green maybe?
[11:06]	Bronson Blackadder:	bluesteel is/was a british freefall nuclear bomb
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	Carmel, make a box and try to wear it on your hand.
[11:06]	Simon Linden:	http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FZoolander&rct=j&q=blue%20steel%20magnum%20zoolander&ei=tbmPTN77EIKosAO116SyDg&usg=AFQjCNEfvluyriwP3BhJL75by_Vgv8aDtg&sig2=otm8Koa2AwdZCClR6rivag&cad=rja
[11:07]	Simon Linden:	or easier : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoolander
[11:07]	Rex Cronon:	carmel. r u wearing clothes?
[11:07]	Tillie Ariantho:	She's wearing a sculpted dress.
[11:07]	carmel Brandi:	make a box??
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	that is Carmel, I'm not sure I believe your naked problem. I need convincing.
[11:08]	2408 Alekseev:	Car,el is my freind
[11:08]	2408 Alekseev:	she tried to wear clothes, but the layers will not be seen by another people
[11:08]	carmel Brandi:	smiles..
[11:08]	2408 Alekseev:	but by herself
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	So I'm curious to see if you appear to actualy wear the box when you put it on.
[11:08]	Rex Cronon:	carmel. u rez a box,and then attach it to your hand
[11:08]	Simon Linden:	let's back up a step ... what viewer are you using?
[11:08]	Morgaine Dinova:	Everyone here rezzed slowly, sim's a bit slow. She was a naked Ruth for a while, but not now.
[11:09]	2408 Alekseev:	carmel has a problem with CLOTHIG layers
[11:09]	2408 Alekseev:	not with attacmenys
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	Morfgaine, I think her sculpty clothes were rendering as smaller spheres hidden within the body.
[11:09]	carmel Brandi:	im on phoenix 1.5.0
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	Until the sculpty textures downloaded.
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	carmel, the problem persists when you try the official SL viewer-2.1.1?
[11:09]	Cummere Mayo:	sounds like a packet loss issue to me
[11:09]	Rex Cronon:	there r some clothes that can be transparent
[11:10]	2408 Alekseev:	she can't be seen wearing pants, underpants, skirt, shirt, undershirt
[11:10]	2408 Alekseev:	if they are worn
[11:10]	2408 Alekseev:	only she sees them
[11:10]	Tillie Ariantho:	Phoenix is bugged with alpha textures. O.o
[11:10]	2408 Alekseev:	not us
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	And yet she seems to have a custom skin on.
[11:10]	Cummere Mayo:	yeah that issue has come up at nyx's hour.
[11:10]	2408 Alekseev:	alpha textures work fine on phoenix:)
[11:10]	Simon Linden:	that sounds like a texture baking problem, but I'm guessing....
[11:10]	Moon Metty:	so that's the opposite of http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14463
[11:10]	Cummere Mayo:	skins render other layers dont seems to be part of the baking failing
[11:10]	Moon Metty:	Avatar clothing change invisible to all inworld, but visible to me.
[11:11]	Cummere Mayo:	is snowglobe 1.5 download still up?
[11:11]	Rex Cronon:	carmel. u could save your appearance, and attachemts, and revert to noob shape. than try wearing clothes
[11:11]	Tillie Ariantho:	2408: but this is a Linden office hour now, and Phoenix is no viewer created by the Lindens.
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, so normal prims do indeed show up on carmel when worn.
[11:12]	carmel Brandi:	whos'working here??
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	So the "only sculpties" statement was incorrect.
[11:12]	Moon Metty:	oh, i have to wake up =_=
[11:12]	Moon Metty:	it's not the opposite
[11:12]	Cummere Mayo:	moon i think its a more severe form of that bug
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	ok thanks carmel, you can drop the box now
[11:13]	Morgaine Dinova:	Actually, Phoenix *is* mostly created by Lindens, a good 90% of it I'd guess :-)
[11:13]	Tillie Ariantho:	but not supported by them. :P
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	Phoenix is the new alternative for Emerald?
[11:13]	Tillie Ariantho:	yes
[11:13]	Morgaine Dinova:	You said "created" :-0
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	well, 10% difference is plenty of room to break baked textures
[11:14]	Rex Cronon:	lindens created pheonix?
[11:14]	2408 Alekseev:	yes, made by the indignated people who left emerald when the code was...not safe any more
[11:14]	Slee Mayo:	pheonix = jessica lyons/lgg(same emerald dev team)
[11:14]	Rex Cronon:	from what i know neither lgg nor jessica is a linden
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	carmel, we don't know enough yet to fully diagnose your outfit problem
[11:15]	Morgaine Dinova:	Textures are working fine in Imprudence, and it's the same rendering code in just about all TPVs
[11:15]	carmel Brandi:	this means??
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	what kind of outfit changes have you attempted?
[11:15]	carmel Brandi:	all
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	Why don't you try changing your whole outfit now?
[11:15]	carmel Brandi:	Andrew...
[11:15]	carmel Brandi:	I believe LL hired you to assist
[11:15]	Tillie Ariantho:	carmel: that means that you should try an official LL client first. if you can wear clothing there, visible to all, then it's a phoenix bug and you go report to the phoenix team, and not Linden Lab. :)
[11:15]	Simon Linden:	Actually, he was hired to write code
[11:15]	Cummere Mayo:	actually they hired him to code
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	Since the box showed up on your hand I'd expect an outfit of multiple attachments would actually show up.
[11:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me sheepishly appologizes for his tardiness in mentioing SVC-22, SVC-93 or SVC-2931, but feels he should keep his hand in.
[11:16]
[11:16]
[11:16]
[11:16]	Simon Linden:	Thanks Arawn :)
[11:16]	Cummere Mayo:	the people hired to assist are accessable via the webpage under stupport
[11:16]	Moon Metty:	:)
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	SVC-93 is going to be fixed soon... I hope I made my final deploy for QA testing this morning.
[11:17]	Cummere Mayo:	I would try using the snowglobe 1.42 version though. for SOME people, it has helped with the same issue
[11:17]	carmel Brandi:	try the LL viewer,is the recommenation?
[11:17]	Morgaine Dinova:	Andrew and Simon are server guys anyway, any assistance they provide with the viewer is out of the kindness of their hearts ^_^
[11:17]	Cummere Mayo:	I would try http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Download_Snowglobe and get teh 1.42
[11:17]	Simon Linden:	Using a different viewer is a way to narrow down where the problem is ... that's really the first steps to sorting it out
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah carmel, I'd suggest trying harder to debug. Such as trying different viewers and trying completely differetn outfits -- different shape, skin, everything.
[11:18]	Simon Linden:	Since everyone else doesn't have that problem, it's something different about either your viewer, your AV, or the skin and clothing you're using
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	Then you can come back to an office hour with a list of all the things you tried.
[11:18]	carmel Brandi:	will do
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	Which will provide some clues as to what the problem is, if it survives those changes.
[11:18]	Simon Linden:	So that's why we're suggesting trying different viewers and outfits
[11:19]	Cummere Mayo:	also leave a comment on http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14463
[11:19]	carmel Brandi:	thank you kindly
[11:19]	Morgaine Dinova:	Carmel: here's the Imprudence link, might help -- http://imprudenceviewer.org/wiki/Downloads
[11:19]	carmel Brandi:	have a fabulous day all
[11:19]	2408 Alekseev:	thank you too:)
[11:19]	2408 Alekseev:	have a great day:)
[11:19]	carmel Brandi:	Imprudence was worse
[11:19]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cya carmel
[11:19]	carmel Brandi:	thank you tho
[11:19]	Simon Linden:	good luck
[11:19]	Rex Cronon:	tc
[11:20]	Moon Metty:	there's a bug that causes a lot of server lag
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	There appears to be a problem with some map tiles showing up grey on viewer-1.23
[11:20]	Moon Metty:	when you open the world map, and zoom all the way out
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	looks like I may have to help look into that problem later today.
[11:20]	Ardy Lay:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-22835
[11:20]	Moon Metty:	Ardy has reproduced it on viewer 2 too
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	I don't know the mapserver code well, but then no one who is still at LL does anymore.
[11:21]	Cummere Mayo:	/me facepalms
[11:21]	Moon Metty:	if you look at the dilation graph , i will open my map for 30 seconds
[11:21]	Panel 3:	Freeze of 0.645394s detected (LSO)
[11:21]	Panel 3:	Freeze of 0.829815s detected (Mono)
[11:21]	Panel 3:	Freeze of 1.818689s detected (LSO)
[11:21]	Panel 3:	Freeze of 2.230007s detected (Mono)
[11:21]	Panel 3:	Freeze of 1.209070s detected (Mono)
[11:21]	Panel 3:	Freeze of 3.164017s detected (LSO)
[11:21]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh dear
[11:21]	Moon Metty:	enough for now :)
[11:22]	Morgaine Dinova:	That sure was nasty freezes
[11:22]	Cummere Mayo:	shhheeeeeeeaaat
[11:22]	Cummere Mayo:	thats pretty bad
[11:22]	Ardy Lay:	V2 doesn't hit it nearly as hard at what Moon just did but it still hits it badly.
[11:22]	Simon Linden:	hmm, there used to be a bad bug like that where zooming out would cause a reqest to go to every simulator within your map view, which was not good when you zoomed way out
[11:22]	Moon Metty:	ok Ardy
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	meanwhile, my work on faster linkability rules is on hold -- the map problems, trying to get other work though QA, and another attempt at tcmalloc is trumping that work.
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... does viewer-1.23 still have that map problem? I can't remember where the fix for the zoom-out happened.
[11:24]	Moon Metty:	the server lag is bad with 1.23.5 yes
[11:24]	Simon Linden:	I think it was server side, because that was where it was all being routed
[11:24]	Simon Linden:	but I'm not sure
[11:25]	Simon Linden:	If you try turning off all the checkboxes on extra stuff to show, it may work better
[11:25]	Moon Metty:	i tried turning them all off
[11:25]	Simon Linden:	any difference?
[11:25]	Moon Metty:	but i think they are still requested, so it doesn't matter
[11:26]	Moon Metty:	it may be different in viewer 2
[11:26]	Simon Linden:	ah right, those might just change how the viewer draws it
[11:26]	Moon Metty:	Ardy, did you try that?
[11:26]	Ardy Lay:	Trying now. I'll open the map then uncheck what is checked.
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	I'll have to re-install viewer-1.23 today and look at the map
[11:27]	Ardy Lay:	That did was my map with only Person checked. Now none are checked and I will pan the map.
[11:27]	Ardy Lay:	dip
[11:27]	Morgaine Dinova:	I think you guys should install the main TPVs, you might be surprised ;-)
[11:28]	Moon Metty:	i think Roberto tried meerkat, it didn't cause lag
[11:28]	Ardy Lay:	That hash on the chart was me panning the world map with no icons enebled, Viewer 2.1.2
[11:28]	lonetorus Habilis:	andrew, do you know why map tiles stored in asset server where discontinued?
[11:28]	Rex Cronon:	morgaine. what if they have the same problem as that girl that has invisible clothes?u want to see the lindens naked:)
[11:28]	Morgaine Dinova:	Meerkat's antique though, hasn't been maintained for over a hear
[11:28]	Morgaine Dinova:	year*
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	lonetorus, I think the map tiles are supposed to still be stored in the asset system for now, to support viewer-1.23
[11:29]	Morgaine Dinova:	She didn't have invisible clothes, to me. The sculpties just took longer to rez, as they always do.
[11:29]	lonetorus Habilis:	they are no longer being updated
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	however that is one of the reasons to discontinue viewer-1.23 support, so we don't need to store them there anymore.
[11:29]	lonetorus Habilis:	last update was some 6 weeks ago
[11:30]	office hours	is half over
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	really? hrm
[11:30]	Morgaine Dinova:	Map updates broken?
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	that sounds like a bug
[11:30]	lonetorus Habilis:	morgaine, map tiles on asset server, accessible via uuid
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	sigh...
[11:30]	lonetorus Habilis:	there are products that use this feature
[11:30]	Simon Linden:	there's been speculation that something broke in the system that generates or uploads those map tiles
[11:30]	lonetorus Habilis:	like sim scanners, loading up a map tile for the bakground
[11:31]	lonetorus Habilis:	or some estate managers use it to keep track of their estate
[11:31]	Moon Metty:	yes
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	those products should migrate to the new map tiles.
[11:31]	lonetorus Habilis:	how?
[11:31]	lonetorus Habilis:	theya re not in world anymore
[11:31]	lonetorus Habilis:	only as offworld jpeg
[11:32]	lonetorus Habilis:	it would means a costly bot driven uplaod mechanism
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	I dunno. I suppose I'll know more when I look at the mapserver system today.
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	There are in-world objects using specific map tile UUID's for surface textures?
[11:33]	Liisa Runo:	plenty
[11:33]	lonetorus Habilis:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Webmap_API #Accessing_map_images_directly <- this only alows to load jpegs offworld
[11:35]	lonetorus Habilis:	i belive the old map tiles where also used as default image in landmarks
[11:36]	Cummere Mayo:	/me wonders if its even worth aring this sexest idiot thats calling all women ho's in a group chat >.>
[11:37]	Rex Cronon:	?
[11:37]	lonetorus Habilis:	if noone does anything, then it seartanly does become acceptible
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	lonetorus, new landmarks use the old map tile images?
[11:37]	Simon Linden:	fwiw I have another meeting at 11:45 today
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	or old legacy landmarks refer to old map tile images?
[11:38]	lonetorus Habilis:	old landmarks i shgould think, probably all different now after, 1.23 viewers
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	ok, I'll try creating a landmark in 1.23 later today to see what happens
[11:38]	lonetorus Habilis:	well, it was more of a question i suppose, since i dont really know ;)
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	oh ok. well I don't know either. I'll have to test.
[11:39]	Moon Metty:	yup
[11:39]	lonetorus Habilis:	just thought that might be another issue to check
[11:40]	lonetorus Habilis:	oh and bluesteel sim crossinngs seem much improved
[11:40]	lonetorus Habilis:	that was needed :)
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	really? the only region crossing changes there were yours Simon, right?
[11:41]	Simon Linden:	It's probably the 'new restart' effect
[11:41]	Simon Linden:	or maybe you got quieter neighbors :)
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	"new restart" effect?
[11:41]	Moon Metty:	yeah, there are many factors
[11:41]	lonetorus Habilis:	could also be a artifact of near empty sims, but i did try rezing out some really heavy scripts, to give some time dilation, and sim crossings still seemed fluent
[11:41]	Moon Metty:	a freshly restarted region always performs better
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	oh I see.
[11:41]	lonetorus Habilis:	the bluesteel test regions are 4 sims alone
[11:42]	Simon Linden:	well, I'm glad to hear it, but know there weren't a lot of changes except for crash bug fixes in it
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	I thought for a minute Simon was talking about the geomtry-cache-incoherency problem, whose fix is not deployed yet.
[11:42]	lonetorus Habilis:	only sim crossing i saw that looked a bit dodgy, was another person, crossing in my view as a imposter, that visually to me looked like he rubberbanded
[11:43]	lonetorus Habilis:	but yeah, we shall see how it performs after a few days ;)
[11:43]	lonetorus Habilis:	should go rez some stuff to chew on the resources
[11:43]	Moon Metty:	i guess the bluesteel regions will see plenty of traffic :)
[11:44]	Simon Linden:	hmm, there was one bug related to sim crossings and attachments fixed it in .. I don't know if that would have much of an effect, however
[11:44]	Simon Linden:	it caused a memory leak, so in the long run it should help the simulators stay healthy
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	Simon and I have to run to another meeting now.
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks for coming everyone.
[11:45]	lonetorus Habilis:	will the sim instances that have common borders try to stay on the same machines and or rack?
[11:45]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew
[11:45]	Moon Metty:	thanks for the meeting Andrew and Simon :)
[11:45]	Cummere Mayo:	thank you andrew and simon :)
[11:45]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone ... see you next time
[11:45]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon
[11:45]	Moon Metty:	bye!

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