User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2008 10 29
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Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours:
[8:02] | Babbage Linden: | hi nock
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[8:02] | Nock Forager: | Hi Babbage.
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[8:02] | Babbage Linden: | let's see how many people turn up
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[8:02] | Babbage Linden: | i nearly missed it due to UK pacific daylight saving stuff
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[8:02] | Nock Forager: | Fake closing other meeting and soon will be here. maybe.
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[8:02] | Babbage Linden: | let me ping the appropriate lists
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[8:02] | Nock Forager: | ah Daylight saving ended already?
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[8:03] | Babbage Linden: | for us in the uk, yes
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[8:03] | Babbage Linden: | us daylight saving is next week
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[8:03] | Babbage Linden: | cue much confusion and missed meetings
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[8:03] | Nock Forager: | We Japanese doesn't have it. so everytime time shifted I confuse.
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[8:04] | Nock Forager: | I really wants SL to use standard time for GMT.
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[8:04] | Fake Fitzgerald: | hi
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[8:04] | Nock Forager: | ah here he come.
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[8:05] | Siann Beck: | Hi folks!
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[8:05] | Nock Forager: | Hi Siann.
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[8:05] | Fake Fitzgerald: | hi
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[8:06] | Tomoneko Mayo: | hi
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[8:06] | Babbage Linden: | hi siann
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[8:06] | Babbage Linden: | hi fake
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[8:06] | Ange Zanetti: | hello there
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[8:06] | Fake Fitzgerald: | hi Babbage
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[8:06] | Babbage Linden: | hi ange
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[8:06] | Ruth Ring Detector whispers: - - - - - - -
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[8:07] | Babbage Linden: | hi tomoneko
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[8:07] | Babbage Linden: | rubik...
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[8:07] | Rubik Lungu: | hi :)
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[8:07] | Babbage Linden: | lets give people a few minutes to arrive
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[8:07] | pipinpa Allen: | hi :)
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[8:08] | Ange Zanetti: | what exactly will be happning there?
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[8:08] | lyndell Aleixandre: | ello babage
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[8:08] | Nock Forager: | We are here to have Babbage's office hour.
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[8:08] | Nock Forager: | Talking about Scripts. LSL.
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[8:09] | Nock Forager: | and some techs. :)
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[8:09] | Ange Zanetti: | oh ok - something like an LSL course
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[8:09] | Ange Zanetti: | woot how kool
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[8:09] | pipinpa Allen: | hi Babbage :)
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[8:09] | Babbage Linden: | hi everyone
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[8:09] | Azwaldo Villota: | greetings Babbage, all
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[8:09] | Siann Beck: | Not really a course, but a discussion about development of SL/
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[8:09] | Babbage Linden: | not much news on new Mono fixes this week
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[8:10] | Babbage Linden: | we're waiting for our queued fixes to be deployed in 1.25 server
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[8:10] | Babbage Linden: | and then we will see where we are
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[8:10] | Babbage Linden: | all of the high priority and crash issues should be fixed
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[8:11] | Babbage Linden: | including http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2908
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[8:11] | Babbage Linden: | hopefully
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[8:11] | Babbage Linden: | we just added another fix for that to the 1.25 server branch
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[8:11] | Babbage Linden: | which should fix the issues with incorrect parameter count
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[8:11] | Babbage Linden: | and hopefully the array index exception
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[8:12] | Babbage Linden: | the problem was with the way events are queued
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[8:12] | Babbage Linden: | each script is allowed 64 queued events
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[8:12] | Babbage Linden: | but also can have events set in the set events mask
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[8:13] | Babbage Linden: | the mono scripting engine was sometimes firing scripts that were set in the mask
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[8:13] | Babbage Linden: | with no data
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[8:13] | Babbage Linden: | which was causing the parameter count problems
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[8:13] | Babbage Linden: | the LSO engine just pushes 0s for the missing parameters
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[8:13] | Babbage Linden: | which is somewhat terrifying, but is how it's been running for years now
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[8:14] | Babbage Linden: | the reason it took a long time to find is that it only occurs after a script has had more than 64 events queued up
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[8:14] | Babbage Linden: | which in turn only occurs when you have lots of scripts running in a region and lots of things going on that generate events
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[8:14] | Babbage Linden: | to create a backlog
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[8:15] | Babbage Linden: | but, now we've fixed the issue we shouldn't be seeing any .NET exceptions being thrown for that reason
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[8:15] | Babbage Linden: | and hopefully we'll have fixed all of the .NET exception errors now
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[8:15] | Babbage Linden: | we'll see after 1.25 is deployed and tested
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[8:16] | Babbage Linden: | other things I've been up to this week include talking at the LSLCON
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[8:16] | Babbage Linden: | and the <head> conference
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[8:16] | Babbage Linden: | I think the transcript of the LSLCON talk will be online soon
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[8:16] | pipinpa Allen: | :)
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[8:16] | Nock Forager: | already put link at your wiki page.
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[8:16] | Babbage Linden: | and the head conference talk will be streading in to second life after 1st november
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[8:16] | Babbage Linden: | streaming, sorry
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[8:17] | pipinpa Allen: | ahh :)
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[8:17] | Imaze Rhiano: | slcn.tv?
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[8:17] | Babbage Linden: | i also had an interesting talk with Adam Frisby of OpenSim about the future of scripting last week at the Virtual Worlds Conference in London
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[8:18] | Babbage Linden: | which I've blogged about here: http://jimpurbrick.com/2008/10/23/second-life/
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[8:18] | Babbage Linden: | it includes some thoughts about our proposed C# scripting interface
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[8:18] | Babbage Linden: | and how it will work with OpenSim
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[8:18] | Babbage Linden: | finally, we've been talking internally about viewer side scripting a bit more
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[8:19] | Babbage Linden: | at the moment the drivers are allowing us to do QA automation of the viewer
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[8:19] | Babbage Linden: | and allow interaction between web UI elements and the rest of the viewer
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[8:19] | Babbage Linden: | which suggests that we should use JavaScript
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[8:19] | Babbage Linden: | but we're also discussing Mono and potentially IronPython too
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[8:20] | Babbage Linden: | so, that's all the scripting stuff that I've been up to this week
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[8:20] | Babbage Linden: | any questions or thoughts?
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[8:20] | Aazy Harbour: | question independent of the previous discussion:
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[8:21] | Aazy Harbour: | have there been reports from anyone but me about scripts compiled to mono losing debit perms?
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[8:21] | Babbage Linden: | not that I know of
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[8:21] | Babbage Linden: | is there an issue in JIRA?
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[8:21] | Aazy Harbour: | yes, one filed some time back. I'd have to find the number. I don't recall it offhand.
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[8:22] | Aazy Harbour: | the problem is, it's purely random. no way to establish a test.
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[8:22] | Babbage Linden: | drat
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[8:22] | Babbage Linden: | that probably means we haven't looked at it
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[8:22] | Babbage Linden: | but otoh it may have been fixed by other fixes
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[8:22] | Aazy Harbour: | just suddenly, an object starts reporting an error that llGiveMoney fails because there is no debit perms
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[8:22] | Babbage Linden: | have you tried to reproduce it recently?
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[8:22] | Aazy Harbour: | still an active bug as of yesterday
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[8:23] | Babbage Linden: | ok
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[8:23] | Aazy Harbour: | I woudln't have a clue how to reproduce it other than sit around and wait.
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[8:23] | Nock Forager: | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2904
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[8:23] | Babbage Linden: | thanks nock
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[8:23] | Nock Forager: | "Need more info"... as always..
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[8:23] | Aazy Harbour: | yes, thank you
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[8:23] | Aazy Harbour: | um... I'm stumped, then.
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[8:24] | Al Supercharge: | I have to go - but looks like this Jira Post is appropriate here as I hear you talking about time spent with OpenSim issues http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3007
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[8:24] | Aazy Harbour: | it's not like I can walk up to one of my objects and shout "lose debit perms, dammit" :-)
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[8:24] | Al Supercharge: | SL Scalability - not OPENSIM thats my rant for today
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[8:24] | Babbage Linden: | ok, it sounds like having more scripted objects makes it more reproducable
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[8:25] | Aazy Harbour: | possibly... would 500 odd games in a sim help that? :-)
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[8:25] | Babbage Linden: | it would be nice to have 15,000 in a region
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[8:26] | Babbage Linden: | but then presumably you'd need to click thousands of debit permission dialogs too
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[8:26] | Aazy Harbour: | well, here's the thing... it's not even excessive use doing it.
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[8:26] | Aazy Harbour: | I've got 2 demos of a new game out....
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[8:26] | Aazy Harbour: | they each give out money 4 times a day.
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[8:27] | Babbage Linden: | i'll ask Vector to have a look at it and see if he can repro it
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[8:27] | Aazy Harbour: | I was standing near one at payout, suddenl, the scrip error pops up with the failed permissions error.
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[8:27] | Aazy Harbour: | and I kow full well it had paid people over the previous days
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[8:28] | Babbage Linden: | ok, i've assigned it to vektor
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[8:28] | Aazy Harbour: | fortunately, it was all freebie stuff since I was testing, so nobody whined at me. :-)
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[8:28] | Babbage Linden: | once these office hour notes are online if you could link them to the issue that would help
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[8:28] | Siann Beck: | Have you tried it with different amouns, Aazy?
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[8:28] | Aazy Harbour: | of course.
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[8:29] | Aazy Harbour: | but it's not the amount that makes a difference.
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[8:29] | Siann Beck: | OK
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[8:29] | Babbage Linden: | anyone else have issues that they'd like us to have a look at?
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[8:29] | Aazy Harbour: | and, to be honest, it's not that common... but with me having over 3500 customers, many who own 50+ of my products, I hear about the problem enough
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[8:30] | Aazy Harbour: | I've got a sore knee. does that count? :-)
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[8:31] | Babbage Linden: | not sure i can help there aazy
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[8:31] | Babbage Linden: | maybe see a doctor if it doesn't get better in the next few days?
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[8:31] | Babbage Linden: | ;-)
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[8:31] | Aazy Harbour: | LOL... well, darn. it was worth a try
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[8:31] | Aazy Harbour: | take 2 L$ and call me in the morning.
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[8:31] | Babbage Linden: | i'm afraid i need to head off for another interview in a few minutes
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[8:32] | Aazy Harbour: | thanks for the meeting, Babbage!
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[8:32] | Nock Forager: | lol so busy day :)
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[8:32] | Babbage Linden: | (we've hired a couple of new web devs in brighton over the last few weeks, which is great news)
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[8:32] | Siann Beck: | Cool!
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[8:32] | Friendly Harbour: | i came a bit late today, will there be a transcript?
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[8:32] | pipinpa Allen: | aahh
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[8:32] | Babbage Linden: | any more questions or issues we should look at in the coming week?
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[8:33] | lyndell Aleixandre: | maybe the introduction of C# as a scripting language?
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[8:33] | Aazy Harbour seconds lyndell
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[8:33] | Babbage Linden: | heh
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[8:33] | Babbage Linden: | well that's not going to happen next week
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[8:33] | lyndell Aleixandre: | lol sorry babage
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[8:33] | lyndell Aleixandre: | yes i know
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[8:33] | Siann Beck: | User-defined constants?
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[8:34] | Patnad Babii: | is the issue with OS function is going to be fixed soon ?!
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[8:34] | Babbage Linden: | it has a dependency on updating our system image
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[8:34] | lyndell Aleixandre: | but perhaps we can discuss some of the semantics on implimenting it ..
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[8:34] | Babbage Linden: | which is going to happen in the next few weeks
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[8:34] | pipinpa Allen: | :D
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[8:34] | Babbage Linden: | lyndell, read that blog post i added a link to
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[8:34] | lyndell Aleixandre: | what do you mean system image ? update to the operating system?
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[8:34] | Babbage Linden: | it describes the broad plan for C#
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[8:34] | lyndell Aleixandre: | okay
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[8:34] | lyndell Aleixandre: | thanks babage
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[8:35] | Babbage Linden: | then we can talk about it in more detail next week if you like
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[8:35] | lyndell Aleixandre: | id love to
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[8:35] | Patnad Babii: | what i mean is there is an issue now in the SL Viewer for Opensim specific language
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[8:35] | Patnad Babii: | is this in the way to be fixed
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[8:35] | Babbage Linden: | we'll talk about that next week too patnad
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[8:35] | Babbage Linden: | now i need to run
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[8:36] | Babbage Linden: | thanks for coming
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[8:36] | pipinpa Allen: | thanks and tc,Babbage
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[8:36] | Rubik Lungu: | thx babbage, see you
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[8:36] | Brota Kornfeld: | Take care, thanks for your time Babbage
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[8:36] | Patnad Babii: | http://slurl.com/secondlife/Longfellow/220/168/25
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[8:36] | lyndell Aleixandre: | thaks bab cya next time :)
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[8:36] | Nock Forager: | Thanks Babbage. See you in next week.
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[8:36] | Imaze Rhiano: | thanks babbage
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[8:36] | Fake Fitzgerald: | thanks babbage
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[8:36] | Tomoneko Mayo: | thanks Babbage
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[8:36] | Babbage Linden: | bye! |