User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2009 02 25

Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours:

[8:09]	Siann Beck:	lol
[8:10]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	hey babbage
[8:10]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yay, Babbage! From Blightie!
[8:10]	Babbage Linden:	hi everyone
[8:10]	Skills Hak:	hallo
[8:10]	Nock Forager:	Hi
[8:10]	Siann Beck:	Yay! Babbage is here!
[8:11]	Babbage Linden:	sorry i forgot to say i was going to be away last week
[8:11]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	that is ok
[8:11]	Morgaine Dinova:	No no, you did say
[8:11]	Babbage Linden:	also, i'm going to have to leave at 8:30 today as i have a meeting
[8:11]	Morgaine Dinova:	kk
[8:11]	Babbage Linden:	so, what would you like to talk about today?
[8:11]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	dang
[8:11]	Morgaine Dinova:	How's the team there, all well?
[8:12]	Babbage Linden:	yes thanks
[8:12]	Skills Hak:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 maybe?
[8:12]	Morgaine Dinova:	Bought an umbrella? :P
[8:12]	Babbage Linden:	we've just merged our space server work in to 1.26
[8:12]	Babbage Linden:	and have been looking at a number of scripting issues
[8:12]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	how is CG likeing it there in th UK
[8:13]	Babbage Linden:	he enjoyed the pub yesterday
[8:13]	Babbage Linden:	although i wasn't there
[8:13]	Eata Kitty:	Finally, more people with us in the UK :P
[8:13]	Babbage Linden:	prospero sent a mail about SVC-3895 yesterday
[8:13]	Babbage Linden:	so we're aware of it
[8:14]	Babbage Linden:	it may be caused by verification of the scripts digital signature on load
[8:14]	Morgaine Dinova:	I just came back from a pub. Unfortunately if was the wake reciptions after a funeral. Nice neighbour died :-(
[8:14]	Asterion Coen:	hello folks :)
[8:14]	Babbage Linden:	although that should only happen the first time a script is rezzed in a region
[8:14]	Asterion Coen:	(rezzing)
[8:14]	Eata Kitty:	We thought it might be gabage collection
[8:14]	Babbage Linden:	we'll be looking in to it shortly
[8:15]	Babbage Linden:	any other issues we should be aware of?
[8:16]	Eata Kitty:	A lot of people are freaking out about states restoring on objects if they are attached, detached then reattched rapidly but I guess thats not really to do with scripts, just how the server manages them
[8:16]	Babbage Linden:	states restoring on objects?
[8:16]	Babbage Linden:	is there a jira?
[8:16]	Eata Kitty:	Yeah it doesn't save the state so when you reattach it, its like it was never attached
[8:17]	Skills Hak:	ouch
[8:17]	Skills Hak:	even if you wait some time?
[8:17]	Eata Kitty:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3579
[8:18]	Object: Hello, Avatar!
[8:18]	Babbage Linden:	thanks
[8:18]	Eata Kitty:	I'm not sure how long it lasts. It's long enough that you can do it by hand without much trouble. It might vary with sim load.
[8:18]	Eata Kitty:	Lots of people who used gift card systems panicking. But But thats a design issue they should have been aware of the danger of replay attacks already
[8:19]	Asterion Coen:	saij ;)
[8:19]	Babbage Linden:	we've been working on fixing some touch issues recently
[8:19]	Skills Hak:	hi
[8:19]	Babbage Linden:	here's how we now think touching works
[8:19]	Babbage Linden:	1) Mouse down on an object creates a touch_start and a touch event
[8:20]	Babbage Linden:	2) While the mouse is down a touch event will be generated every frame
[8:20]	Babbage Linden:	3) Moving the mouse over an object with the button down generates a
[8:20]	Babbage Linden:	4) Releasing the mouse button having previously clicked on an object generates a touch_end event
[8:20]	Babbage Linden:	5) Changing state will clear pending touch* events, no new touch* events will be generated until further user input is received
[8:20]	Babbage Linden:	number 5 is the killer
[8:20]	Babbage Linden:	we've had to keep the behaviour to avoid silently breaking scripts
[8:21]	Babbage Linden:	but state changing is considered harmful, especially when combined with touch handlers
[8:21]	Babbage Linden:	if you stay in a single state and use globals to manage states everything works ok
[8:21]	Babbage Linden:	the cleanup that occurs on state changing is very bizarre unfortunately
[8:21]	Eata Kitty:	That does sound like an odd place to change state
[8:22]	Maldoror Bowman:	So if I change state on a touch_start event I'll never see the touch_end event?
[8:22]	Babbage Linden:	you will see the touch end
[8:22]	Maldoror Bowman:	Or does that count as more input?
[8:22]	Maldoror Bowman:	OK
[8:22]	Babbage Linden:	as the resident will release the mouse button
[8:23]	Siann Beck:	You just won't get the intervening touch events.
[8:23]	Saijanai Kuhn:	you can filter out the second just by checking for duplicate coordinates
[8:23]	Babbage Linden:	the most weird consequence is that if you hold down the mouse button
[8:23]	Babbage Linden:	you will get a touch event stream while in the first state
[8:23]	Babbage Linden:	but it will stop on state change
[8:23]	Cale Flanagan:	[08:23] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Collision with "Overlord Bullet", Owner: Nadia Essel
[8:24]	Cale Flanagan:	who atacks me?
[8:24]	Saijanai Kuhn:	this is a full perms open source type thingie if anyone wants
[8:24]	Asterion Coen:	cale, some hunters i guess :)
[8:24]	Eata Kitty:	Sort of related. I noticed on control evens, in mouselook it generates far far more control events for a held control when the view is moved. Like, dozens a second. I suspect one transmitted everyframe
[8:24]	Eata Kitty:	That seems very inefficient?
[8:25]	Babbage Linden:	yes
[8:25]	Cale Flanagan:	already rabbit huntubg season?:)
[8:25]	Yann Dufaux:	hello all :)
[8:25]	Saijanai Kuhn:	I think that just ignoring duplicate coordinates should help there too, Eata
[8:25]	Babbage Linden:	it's to allow the picking behaviour qarl added to work
[8:25]	Cale Flanagan:	*hunting
[8:25]	Babbage Linden:	unfortunately the picking features were what caused the stream of touch bugs we've had
[8:25]	Babbage Linden:	but hopefully we now have a set of touch behaviour that works for all scripts
[8:26]	toth Auebauch:	/aoon
[8:26]	toth Auebauch:	testing?
[8:26]	Eata Kitty:	Well it makes scripting things for a held control stranger because you get the event triggered far more times if someone is in mouselook and looking around than other times
[8:26]	Asterion Coen:	about funny bugs: the ghost scripts :)
[8:26]	Yann Dufaux:	sorry :)
[8:26]	Asterion Coen:	once emoved
[8:27]	Asterion Coen:	(like for overtext, hmm and also particules)
[8:27]	Eata Kitty:	I had the jira for ghost scripts... *looks*
[8:27]	Babbage Linden:	you should get a touch event every frame as long as you don't change state
[8:27]	Yann Dufaux:	well, i have difficulty with my spca nav:)
[8:27]	Babbage Linden:	at least with the new changes we've made
[8:27]	Yann Dufaux:	space*
[8:27]	Skills Hak:	are you waiting for a touch event too, toth? or..
[8:27]	Saijanai Kuhn:	everyone get a copy of this if they want?
[8:28]	Eata Kitty:	This is the "ghost script" jira: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3867
[8:28]	Imaze Rhiano:	How hard it would be add function that sends message for viewer like (http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3848) ?
[8:28]	Asterion Coen:	eata ;)
[8:28]	Siann Beck:	How about some way to specify that the touch should keep triggering? A function call before state change?
[8:28]	Babbage Linden:	actually eata, you're right, you only get touch events when the mouse moves
[8:29]	Siann Beck:	That way you don't break scripts relying on the old behaviour
[8:29]	Eata Kitty:	A control for the how the event is triggered sounds quite good
[8:30]	Babbage Linden:	the behaviour since the picking feature has been to only generate touch events when the mouse moves
[8:30]	Babbage Linden:	which is what we're keeping
[8:30]	Saijanai Kuhn:	this is a good thing. Less client-server chat
[8:31]	Siann Beck:	But even that won't persist through a state change, right?
[8:31]	Babbage Linden:	yes
[8:31]	Babbage Linden:	ok, i need to go to a meeting, sorry
[8:31]	Eata Kitty:	I think it's fair for it not to persist. I can't see why you would want to do that
[8:31]	Skills Hak:	ok thanks
[8:32]	Saijanai Kuhn:	darn my first babbage O H since forever /snif
[8:32]	Babbage Linden:	thanks for coming everyone
[8:32]	Yann Dufaux:	ok babage, have a nice meeting :)
[8:32]	Eata Kitty:	Byebye
[8:32]	Siann Beck:	OK, thanks Babbage.
[8:32]	Skills Hak:	see you on boston tour maybe
[8:32]	Nock Forager:	Thanks for comming up Babbage.
[8:32]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	tc babbage
[8:32]	toth Auebauch:	TC Babb