User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Aug 09

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[15:06]	Squirrel Wood:	Hello Benjamin
[15:06]	Benjamin Linden:	hi there Squirrel
[15:06]	Benjamin Linden:	and Wyn
[15:06]	Benja Kepler:	hi Benjamin
[15:06]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Benja and Saijanai
[15:06]	Dale Glass:	hiya :-)
[15:07]	Wyn Galbraith:	Hello Benjamin.
[15:07]	Squirrel Wood:	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTaEi8mYvJw ^^
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry I'm running a little late
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	meetings after meetings today
[15:07]	Wyn Galbraith:	It's been a late day for Lindens. And I've got a picture of Ruth'dRob.
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	hey Dale
[15:07]	Saijanai Kuhn:	/sok Zero was only 40 minutes late this morning
[15:07]	Wyn Galbraith didn't make Zero's cause it wasnt there.
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	Rob is very scary when he's ruthed
[15:07]	Wyn Galbraith:	for me anyway.
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	wow 40 minutes that's really late! :-)
[15:07]	Dale Glass:	hehehe, I had a screenshot of Rob for some time
[15:08]	Dale Glass:	btw, is ruthing filed as a bug?
[15:08]	Dale Glass:	and did anybody try to fix it?
[15:08]	Wyn Galbraith:	Not a bug really.
[15:08]	Dale Glass:	what do you mean not a bug?
[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	Ruth is an interesting issue
[15:08]	Wyn Galbraith:	More of a timing issue.
[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	it is the default avatar shape
[15:08]	Wyn Galbraith:	Ruth is like a placeholder.
[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	and you appear as ruth until your shape is loaded into the client
[15:09]	Dale Glass:	right, so why not re-request the shape if it doesn't arrive?
[15:09]	Benja Kepler:	yes, as babies are female until secondary ....
[15:09]	Benjamin Linden:	but there has been a lot of discussion internally about how to come up with a better default avatar
[15:09]	Wyn Galbraith:	So usually you don't see your Ruthiness unless it's slow to update.
[15:09]	Benja Kepler:	characteristics appear
[15:09]	Wyn Galbraith:	Or make an avatar that's Ruth
[15:09]	Dale Glass:	I don't have much of a problem with Ruth as a default. The problem is it being permanent
[15:10]	Wyn Galbraith had a nightmare she was attacked by a group of Ruth'd Zombies.
[15:10]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, I guess sometimes the shape fails to load
[15:10]	Benjamin Linden:	lol @ Wyn
[15:10]	Dale Glass:	I shouldn't have to do things like jumping 300m in the air to force reloading, it should figure it out by itself
[15:11]	Squirrel Wood:	Woo! Our development team has identified the issue and are currently working on a fix.
[15:12]	Saijanai Kuhn:	was that distorted?
[15:12]	Benjamin Linden:	where did you see that Squirrel?
[15:12]	Squirrel Wood:	blog.
[15:12]	Benjamin Linden:	oh the network issues?
[15:12]	Squirrel Wood:	ye
[15:12]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, wow what a week
[15:12]	Benja Kepler:	paranoia is a key feature in SL: when I was first ruthed I thought it was a griefing, but everyone I spoke to said it couldn't be... unless...and so conspiracies are born
[15:12]	Wyn Galbraith:	[14:15] Soft Linden: Wyn - try deselecting Client->Rendering->Nightmare Scenario
[15:12]	Dale Glass:	LOL
[15:12]	Wyn Galbraith:	That was Soft's suggestion about the nightmare.
[15:13]	Dale Glass:	I think paranoia is a good feature in coding. If it can fail, handle it gracefully, even if unlikely
[15:13]	Benja Kepler:	could be a problem in the German version as I think trauma means dream
[15:13]	Squirrel Wood:	nono. Traum = Dream
[15:13]	Wyn Galbraith:	Oh that's the suggestion I wanted to make, a reset for the viewer.
[15:13]	Benjamin Linden:	have folks had a chance to try out Voice?
[15:13]	Benja Kepler:	well.....close-ish
[15:14]	Saijanai Kuhn:	did that come through?
[15:14]	Benja Kepler:	er, do you want voice now?
[15:14]	Dale Glass:	Benjamin, sorta. Running SLVoice.exe under wine, as I'm a Linux user
[15:14]	Dale Glass:	getting awful dropouts
[15:14]	Dale Glass:	but other than that and 100% CPU usage I suppose it works
[15:14]	Benjamin Linden:	no, I don't have my headset on at the moment
[15:14]	Benja Kepler:	hi Latizia
[15:14]	Laetizia Coronet:	evening all
[15:14]	Benjamin Linden:	it has been very choppy
[15:14]	Squirrel Wood:	voice is mostly all chopped up. yes.
[15:14]	Benjamin Linden:	hi there Laetizia
[15:14]	Laetizia Coronet:	yes I hear you
[15:14]	Laetizia Coronet:	I have no headset though
[15:15]	Benjamin Linden:	I see you guys talking :-)
[15:15]	Laetizia Coronet:	Wyn is hardly audible here
[15:15]	Squirrel Wood:	might need to set the proper imput device ?
[15:15]	Laetizia Coronet:	that you Dale, the translator?
[15:15]	Dale Glass:	translator?
[15:15]	Benjamin Linden:	in any case, I'm probably not going to run my office hours in voice, at least for now
[15:15]	Dale Glass:	that's me
[15:15]	Benjamin Linden:	it's nice to have transcripts
[15:16]	Squirrel Wood:	I know that MorphVOX installs its own virtual "input" driver/device
[15:16]	Benjamin Linden:	and to be able to follow multiple threads
[15:16]	Laetizia Coronet:	it sounds like a slow talking man
[15:16]	Saijanai Kuhn:	o well
[15:16]	Benja Kepler:	good point - you'd have to have podcast transcriptions done thru mechanical turk or sommat
[15:16]	Laetizia Coronet:	lol
[15:16]	Benjamin Linden:	hopefully we'll get the technical issues smoothed out
[15:16]	Squirrel Wood:	I'm sure about that :)
[15:17]	Dale Glass:	hm, my voice is fairly deep I think, but I also have an awful microphone and a very non-standard way of getting voice to work
[15:17]	Dale Glass:	probably adds up
[15:17]	Laetizia Coronet:	let me walk over to Wyn to hear her, Dale is so much louder
[15:17]	Benjamin Linden:	I haven't been checking the forums for feedback lately, how're people reacting to the Communicate window?
[15:17]	Laetizia Coronet:	Wyn still very soft
[15:17]	Dale Glass:	Benjamin, still quite badly
[15:17]	Dale Glass:	people on sldev did work on replacements
[15:18]	Benjamin Linden:	I did see that thread
[15:18]	Benjamin Linden:	but I haven't seen what Nicholaz did
[15:18]	Squirrel Wood:	the communicate window seems to be a much hated feature from the posts I've seen
[15:18]	Benjamin Linden:	we are planning to make the Contacts window removeable
[15:18]	Laetizia Coronet:	I like it, but it's too frickin big
[15:18]	Benjamin Linden:	and change the orientation of the Friends/Groups tab
[15:19]	Wyn Galbraith:	Laetizia, use the button to the left of the talk button for active speakers. They adjust the volume of each speaker, that you want to hear, up a couple of notches.
[15:19]	Dale Glass:	about the window, I'm considering a redesign of the internals here
[15:19]	Saijanai Kuhn:	also.. you need to add text sizing back in. It went away with the First Look and these poor old eyes are constantly squnting
[15:19]	Laetizia Coronet:	ah right ty
[15:19]	Benjamin Linden:	where were the text-sizing features, Saijanai?
[15:20]	Laetizia Coronet:	lmao
[15:20]	Laetizia Coronet:	I hope she does... I have a VERYU loud voice :D
[15:20]	Benjamin Linden:	Dale, what improvements are you hoping to make?
[15:20]	Wyn Galbraith:	LOL Tizia!
[15:20]	Dale Glass:	I want to improve logging among other things
[15:20]	Saijanai Kuhn:	under preferences chat
[15:20]	Laetizia Coronet:	I've been known to silence a jam packed jazz bar with the mike off :)
[15:20]	Dale Glass:	one of my problems is that by the time things get to the log, they're already formatted
[15:20]	Wyn Galbraith idles a moment, RL interruptus
[15:20]	Neo Flight (Super speed): All Go
[15:21]	Saijanai Kuhn:	preferences => text chat
[15:21]	Laetizia Coronet:	yeah me too Sai
[15:21]	Dale Glass:	So I'd make chat history to be made of objects in a list, instead of a text dump
[15:21]	Dale Glass:	so for example you could change the text color and rebuild the whole log with that
[15:21]	Benjamin Linden:	oh you're talking about the underlying code
[15:21]	Dale Glass:	yeah
[15:21]	Benjamin Linden:	ok
[15:22]	Dale Glass:	part of the reason is logging things like owners of objects
[15:22]	Benjamin Linden:	there are lots of issues with the chat logs (like no time stamps), although I think that's been worked on
[15:22]	Dale Glass:	see, I want ot make identification possible without losing info
[15:22]	Laetizia Coronet:	and the newest craze - sound griefing
[15:22]	Dale Glass:	by the time you turn the option to log the owner on, the object might have stopped speaking already
[15:23]	Dale Glass:	so the solution would be keeping all that data around, so that you can retroactively apply changes
[15:23]	Squirrel Wood:	sound griefing... chadrick said to report such stuff. the more people report it, the better
[15:24]	Dale Glass:	the reason for implementing this is that people do things like what I describe here: http://daleglass.wordpress.com/2007/08/09/silencing-the-voice-of-god/
[15:24]	Benjamin Linden:	has there been a lot of sound griefing?
[15:24]	Saijanai Kuhn:	even with the old resizing it was too msall. I need extra large text or even XXL text
[15:24]	Laetizia Coronet:	well I think there's an increase
[15:24]	Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
	[15:24]  Connected
[15:24]	Benjamin Linden:	Saijanai are you saying that there was a feature that got removed?
[15:25]	Laetizia Coronet:	not the simple Hooo! things but just long repeated music tunes, screams etc
[15:25]	Squirrel Wood:	its easy enough to connect the stereo mix to the mic input and then just playing annoying stuff really loud to annoy people
[15:25]	Squirrel Wood:	and the distance you can be heard at is quite long
[15:25]	Dale Glass:	microphone to speaker is an easy one
[15:25]	Dale Glass:	makes a very annoying sound
[15:25]	Laetizia Coronet:	Maybe we should have an option to separately silence ambient sounds in the viewer
[15:26]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	you can reduce/turn off ambient volume already
[15:26]	Laetizia Coronet:	also good during griefer spam attacks
[15:26]	Benjamin Linden:	there already is an option to turn down ambient sounds
[15:26]	Laetizia Coronet:	oops, where?
[15:26]	Dale Glass:	I'm working on the spam attacks :-)
[15:26]	Squirrel Wood:	bottom right click the speaker icon
[15:26]	Benjamin Linden:	if you click on the little speaker button in the lower right
[15:26]	Dale Glass:	tracked one down yesterday
[15:26]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	just click the speaker symbol next to volume slider bottom right
[15:26]	Laetizia Coronet:	ah right, that's for ambient, ty
[15:26]	Benjamin Linden:	or in Preferences->Audio
[15:27]	Dale Glass:	now will build the tracking functionality into my viewer
[15:27]	Wyn Galbraith is back.
[15:27]	Laetizia Coronet:	yeah but that's too slow, you'd want it rready
[15:28]	Laetizia Coronet:	...
[15:29]	Benjamin Linden:	Laetizia, I love your hair
[15:29]	Benjamin Linden:	(sorry, off-topic)
[15:29]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	lae, if someone is spamming voice you can always MUTE them quickly from Active Speakers window
[15:29]	Laetizia Coronet:	thanks Benjamin, bought it yesterday :)
[15:29]	Saijanai Kuhn:	still a slow speaking guy, eh?
[15:29]	Laetizia Coronet:	thanks luf
[15:29]	Wyn Galbraith loves the hair too.
[15:29]	Benjamin Linden:	oh hi lufpleh
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	I didn't see you sneak in :-)
[15:30]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	Hi benjamin :)
[15:30]	Saijanai Kuhn:	so no girlie voce from me, eh?
[15:30]	Dale Glass:	oh yeah, about that
[15:30]	Laetizia Coronet:	It's from Booperfunk, one of the few (?) afro shops.
[15:30]	Wyn Galbraith:	Lufpleh has a nice accent.
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	Booperfunk, nice
[15:30]	Dale Glass:	Benjamin, I think the update speed of flexible objects slows down as there are more of them, right?
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm I'm not sure about that Dale
[15:31]	Benjamin Linden:	Have any of you been getting the Resident Satisfaction survey?
[15:31]	Squirrel Wood:	I have seen flexiprims freeze.... and nothing but a client restart would fix that
[15:31]	Laetizia Coronet:	no
[15:31]	Wyn Galbraith:	No.
[15:31]	Dale Glass:	well, I notice that with a lot of them framerate doesn't go down, they just update a lot slower and worse
[15:31]	Saijanai Kuhn:	yes, and I found it totally unsatisfactory...
[15:31]	Benjamin Linden:	lol
[15:31]	Saijanai Kuhn:	seriously, I had trouble filing out the comments
[15:31]	Benjamin Linden:	what happened, Saijanai?
[15:31]	Wyn Galbraith:	Well let me check my mail for the avatar. I have to change mail accounts.
[15:31]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	agree with Squirrel, you can hear voice over far to great a distance, would like spatial effect to attenute more with distance
[15:32]	Saijanai Kuhn:	iclicked the button, then tried to select the text box for input but couldn't.
[15:32]	Benja Kepler:	ah no, because I have been logging in with a shortcut with command line login details so it bypasses the start screen
[15:32]	Laetizia Coronet:	I find voice to be detached from graphics
[15:32]	Laetizia Coronet:	but maybe that is just getting used to
[15:33]	Benjamin Linden:	what do you mean by that Laetizia?
[15:33]	Wyn Galbraith didn't get one.
[15:33]	Laetizia Coronet:	well I hear Wyn talking, but it is someone with a mike behind a desk - an RL person
[15:33]	Wyn Galbraith:	LOL
[15:33]	Laetizia Coronet:	it doesn't feewl like part of the whole experience
[15:33]	Benjamin Linden:	I see
[15:33]	Wyn Galbraith:	Maybe our mouths should move.
[15:34]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	agree, voice does bring in more of RL
[15:34]	Laetizia Coronet:	an anim would help, yes
[15:34]	Benjamin Linden:	it doesn't sound like the people here are talking in this space
[15:34]	Benja Kepler:	or you could wear a veil
[15:34]	Laetizia Coronet:	that too Benjamin
[15:34]	Wyn Galbraith:	We were.
[15:34]	Benjamin Linden:	there actually are supposed to be voice gestures
[15:34]	Laetizia Coronet:	there was a contest for those, wasn't there?
[15:34]	Benjamin Linden:	but there aren't facial animations of course
[15:34]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, I think there was a contest
[15:34]	Wyn Galbraith:	We could always talk about Benjamin cause he doesn't have his headset on ;)
[15:34]	Laetizia Coronet:	there are expressions
[15:34]	Benjamin Linden:	lol
[15:35]	Laetizia Coronet:	so it must be doable
[15:35]	Laetizia Coronet:	lol
[15:35]	Benjamin Linden:	but they are very close by
[15:35]	Wyn Galbraith:	We're talking about you right now!
[15:35]	Laetizia Coronet:	well what about a head movement thing?
[15:35]	Benjamin Linden:	my headset hurts my ears
[15:35]	Benjamin Linden:	:-)
[15:35]	Wyn Galbraith:	There are gestures I got some.
[15:35]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	Voice gestures = Speech gestures, located in your Library > gestures folder, drag folder onto your avatar then activate, I have them on
[15:35]	Wyn Galbraith tries to find them.
[15:35]	Squirrel Wood:	just build yourself new ears then?
[15:35]	Wyn Galbraith:	Ah
[15:35]	Laetizia Coronet:	of course I'd want that Oprah style sideways head movement for this Afro avatar lol
[15:36]	Dale Glass:	btw
[15:36]	Dale Glass:	why is "hear voice chat from camera position" the default?
[15:36]	Laetizia Coronet:	wait til you hear my baritone, now that's detached from SL ;)
[15:37]	Laetizia Coronet:	lol
[15:37]	Benjamin Linden:	so now that voice is out, what do you think we should work on next in the user interface?
[15:37]	Laetizia Coronet:	knifing you half the time
[15:37]	Squirrel Wood:	Oh! I know!
[15:38]	Laetizia Coronet:	Benjamin, my choice would be a viewer 'light'
[15:38]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	Benjamin, nthing to say about the range/distance voice carries
[15:38]	Squirrel Wood:	Do what all the whining people want you to do! ^^
[15:38]	Benjamin Linden:	oh a lightweight client?
[15:38]	Laetizia Coronet:	yes
[15:38]	Wyn Galbraith:	I look like the gecko.
[15:38]	Laetizia Coronet:	my laptop is falling behind rapidly now
[15:38]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry lufpleh I missed that comment
[15:38]	Benjamin Linden:	did you say voice is carrying too far?
[15:38]	Dale Glass:	there must be a gecko avatar somewhere
[15:38]	Laetizia Coronet:	it was good in nov 06 when I signed on
[15:39]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	I just find it odd you can hear someone yet you cant see them/their name tag
[15:39]	Laetizia Coronet:	yeah Wyn I wondered about that, if you release cam constraints you can eavesdrop
[15:39]	Dale Glass:	sneaky
[15:39]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, Second Life is a secret plot between Microsoft, Dell, and ATI to make everyone update their computers :-)
[15:39]	Dale Glass:	no nvidia?
[15:39]	Squirrel Wood:	voice range is quite long... though I suspect it is to reduce the number of connect/disconnects
[15:39]	Wyn Galbraith:	LOL Benjamin!
[15:39]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	would like to see voice attenuted more with distance and an option to boost to replicate shout
[15:40]	Benjamin Linden:	uh oh here come the dancers
[15:40]	Dale Glass:	shouting should be realistic
[15:40]	Laetizia Coronet:	Benjamin, that's too bad for tm, I can't update jack sh** on this thing
[15:40]	Dale Glass:	just shriek into the microphone ;-)
[15:40]	Wyn Galbraith:	I've been thinking I need to build my own computer.
[15:40]	Delaynie Barbosa:	Hello everyone. (just announcing my presence. not sure if I have anything to add yet as I've never attended one of these meetings before.) :-)
[15:40]	Laetizia Coronet:	hi Delaynie
[15:40]	Dale Glass:	hi Delanye
[15:41]	Dale Glass:	*ie
[15:41]	Benjamin Linden:	Dunster, click Tools->Stop All Animations
[15:41]	Delaynie Barbosa:	hehe
[15:41]	Kii Lilliehook:	longer viewing distance without this heavy lag penalty would be fine. I don't want to see every tin prime thats far away, but the big buildings.
[15:41]	DunsterDunn Bebb:	ty
[15:41]	Benjamin Linden:	Laetizia, we had an interesting conversation about lightweight clients a few months ago
[15:41]	Benjamin Linden:	it's in the transcripts
[15:41]	Wyn Galbraith:	LOL
[15:41]	Laetizia Coronet:	good point, some selectivity about what needs to be drawn'd be good
[15:42]	Benjamin Linden:	there was good discussion around different platforms (cell phones, etc)
[15:42]	Benjamin Linden:	personally I would love to see a browser plug in
[15:42]	Laetizia Coronet:	oi, cell phones, I am not an addict :P
[15:42]	Saijanai Kuhn:	I'm having to fudge a lightweight client to get chat into Croquet. Isn't as easy as I had hoped
[15:42]	Camber Front Door: DunsterDunn Bebb is at the door.
[15:42]	Dale Glass:	I discused some time ago that it could be possible to render SL in a nethack-like way
[15:42]	Camber Front Door: DunsterDunn Bebb is at the door.
[15:43]	Laetizia Coronet:	I want a heads up display on the car weindshield ;)
[15:43]	Camber Front Door: DunsterDunn Bebb is at the door.
[15:43]	Squirrel Wood:	http://www.theprodukkt.com/mobile <= see what can be done on mobile phones. a textured 3d scene with lighting.
[15:43]	Benjamin Linden:	lol
[15:43]	Dale Glass:	http://www.nongnu.org/nethack-el/nethack.png
[15:43]	Benjamin Linden:	wow!
[15:43]	Benjamin Linden:	those graphics are better than SL
[15:43]	Kii Lilliehook:	yeah, browser plugin would be good - so you could connct from internet cafes while on holiday.
[15:43]	Wyn Galbraith:	Geeze Laetizia, I have hardly any view of SL now, can you imagine if it was on the car window?
[15:43]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	has anyone tried Ajax
[15:43]	Benjamin Linden:	mm, I mean the Produkt graphics are, not hethack :-)
[15:43]	Wyn Galbraith:	Cops would stop me for sure.
[15:44]	Saijanai Kuhn:	but huds are invisible to everyone but you...
[15:44]	Laetizia Coronet:	Wyn, it doesn't matter.. must... connect.. every... living... minute...
[15:44]	Wyn Galbraith:	ROGUE!
[15:44]	Benjamin Linden:	lol
[15:44]	Dale Glass:	sure, making graphics beter than SL is possible
[15:44]	Laetizia Coronet:	and fix that bug called RL already
[15:44]	Wyn Galbraith:	That's what that is, it's not Netwhaterver.
[15:44]	DunsterDunn Bebb:	hi
[15:44]	Benjamin Linden:	yeah, but that was on a cell phone, Dale
[15:44]	DunsterDunn Bebb:	let me in plz
[15:44]	Dale Glass:	the problem is using that in SL then. Lots of optimizations don't work in SL
[15:44]	Roof Doors:	Benjamin Linden is at the door.
[15:44]	Wyn Galbraith:	Oh I see what they did.
[15:45]	DunsterDunn Bebb:	ty
[15:45]	Benja Kepler:	I'd like the type sound as a ringtone and see if anyone in the train looks up when my phone rings
[15:45]	Benjamin Linden:	your dancing is cracking me up DunsterDunn
[15:45]	Laetizia Coronet:	hehe
[15:45]	Benjamin Linden:	do you want to know how to stop dancing?
[15:45]	DunsterDunn Bebb:	im not danceing
[15:45]	Wyn Galbraith:	You are to us.
[15:45]	Laetizia Coronet:	oh I can make him stop, where's my Desert Eagle....
[15:45]	Benjamin Linden:	then what are you doing?
[15:45]	Cryptum Lomax:	True...its more of a seizure/fit
[15:45]	DunsterDunn Bebb:	waa i did wot u sad
[15:45]	Saijanai Kuhn:	he's goroovin to the scenery
[15:45]	DunsterDunn Bebb:	and
[15:45]	Delaynie Barbosa:	sometimes you have to relog to get the animations to stop.
[15:45]	Laetizia Coronet:	lol Cryptum
[15:46]	DunsterDunn Bebb:	its working
[15:46]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	if its not dancing call the medics, he's having a fit!
[15:46]	Cryptum Lomax:	someone call 911...i think he is dying
[15:46]	Delaynie Barbosa:	I don't know why tools>stop animations will stop locally but not in world. any idea?
[15:46]	Kii Lilliehook:	wear the thing i gave you, Dunster.
[15:46]	Wyn Galbraith:	Try reloggin.
[15:46]	Laetizia Coronet:	I am a Mentor but we haven't had virtual CPR yet
[15:46]	DunsterDunn Bebb:	ok
[15:46]	Saijanai Kuhn saw many people like DunsterDunn in the 60's and 70's
[15:46]	Wyn Galbraith:	LOL Laetizia
[15:46]	Cryptum Lomax:	yeah thats not in the program
[15:46]	Laetizia Coronet:	never heard of DunsterDunn
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden:	lol
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden:	that was too funny
[15:47]	Laetizia Coronet:	maybe it's a US thing
[15:47]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	Ohh Benjamin, thats a good one to add, change the Tools Stop animations for a script that actually works
[15:47]	Wyn Galbraith:	Most of SL is funny.
[15:47]	Wyn Galbraith:	Now he's Ruth'd.
[15:47]	Saijanai Kuhn:	no clue what the name means either
[15:47]	DunsterDunn Bebb:	did tht work
[15:47]	Laetizia Coronet:	yeah it did
[15:47]	Wyn Galbraith:	Yep you're not dancing.
[15:47]	DunsterDunn Bebb:	ty
[15:47]	Benjamin Linden:	if that's broken, someone should add a bug to the public tracker
[15:47]	Benjamin Linden:	nice job, Dunster
[15:47]	DunsterDunn Bebb:	nice house
[15:47]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks!
[15:47]	Laetizia Coronet:	sometimes it seems to help until you cross a sim line
[15:47]	Benjamin Linden:	Scope Cleaver built it
[15:47]	Delaynie Barbosa:	IT'S been that way for long as I can remember BEnjamin.
[15:48]	Wyn Galbraith:	Sometimes that causes it.
[15:48]	Kii Lilliehook:	build a little thing that helps in this case. stops animations.
[15:48]	Laetizia Coronet:	hard to file a bug report on something that shaky
[15:48]	Benjamin Linden:	yeah, it's probably tough to repro
[15:48]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	its not brocken just does not stop a lot of animations
[15:48]	Laetizia Coronet:	right luf
[15:48]	Benjamin Linden:	we probably need a scripter to figure out which things don't work
[15:48]	DunsterDunn Bebb:	brb
[15:49]	Wyn Galbraith:	It's not broken, just doesn't work half the time
[15:49]	Laetizia Coronet:	well SL is teeming with them
[15:49]	Laetizia Coronet:	call the Nigras, they can script :)
[15:49]	Benjamin Linden:	lol
[15:49]	Wyn Galbraith:	LOL
[15:49]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	I have a script embeded in an cross I give to newbies so they can stop animations
[15:49]	Laetizia Coronet:	I can lend you my avi to blend in ;)
[15:49]	Dale Glass:	eh, they're lame. They don't even have a decent custom viewer
[15:50]	Laetizia Coronet:	a cross?
[15:50]	Benjamin Linden:	one thing we've been talking about lately is a way to make moving the avatar and camera easier
[15:50]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	just an object
[15:50]	Wyn Galbraith:	To protect against vampires too.
[15:50]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	y
[15:50]	Dale Glass:	I think they randomized the MAC and that's about it
[15:50]	Laetizia Coronet:	easier still?
[15:50]	Benjamin Linden:	and thinking about if there's a way to move using just the mouse
[15:50]	Benjamin Linden:	no modifier keys
[15:50]	Laetizia Coronet:	there is - I have chopper which does just that
[15:50]	Wyn Galbraith hrms.
[15:50]	Squirrel Wood:	well, todays mice usually come with a plethora of buttons on them
[15:50]	Squirrel Wood:	make use of those ?
[15:51]	Delaynie Barbosa:	II had thought for camera congtrols , using a sliderinterface would be good. that way you can get exact placement of camera angle.
[15:51]	Laetizia Coronet:	I like the arrow keys
[15:51]	Wyn Galbraith uses a trackball on her desktop and a mouse pad on the laptop.
[15:51]	Delaynie Barbosa:	none of that choppy placement stuff.
[15:51]	Benjamin Linden:	what if it was simply a matter of clicking and holding the avatar, then moving the cursor slightly forward or back to move the avatar?
[15:51]	Benjamin Linden:	we wouldn't replace the arrow keys
[15:51]	Laetizia Coronet:	I am sceptic about that Benjamin
[15:51]	Saijanai Kuhn:	check out the croquet interface that is the default. It can get a bit unnerviging at times
[15:51]	Delaynie Barbosa:	move the avatar by mous control? Isn't that was mouselok does?
[15:51]	Laetizia Coronet:	I mean, don't we have bigger problems to tackle?
[15:52]	Squirrel Wood:	moving the avatar.. I prefer the 1st person keyboard/mouse combo. gives you the most precision
[15:52]	Wyn Galbraith:	Be hard to hold the mousebutton down so long.
[15:52]	Benjamin Linden:	mouselook is a combination of keyboard and mouse
[15:52]	Delaynie Barbosa:	forgive my typos, my keyboard wants to quit on me any day now.
[15:52]	Laetizia Coronet:	just clean it Delaynie
[15:52]	Benjamin Linden:	Laetizia, when you say bigger problems, what's an example?
[15:52]	Laetizia Coronet:	well the overall slowness of things
[15:52]	Delaynie Barbosa:	Oh I have Laetizia. Its an keyboard.
[15:52]	Benjamin Linden:	so technical issues
[15:53]	Laetizia Coronet:	lag making you crash into things, not arrow keys
[15:53]	Squirrel Wood:	Benjamin, have you ever heard of Cube or Sauerbraten ?
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	I agree there are performance and stability problems, but SL is also very hard for first-time users
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	we are trying to think of ways to make it more approachable
[15:53]	Wyn Galbraith:	The movie the Cube?
[15:53]	Dale Glass:	hmm, about mouselook
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	no Squirrel, what is that
[15:53]	Dale Glass:	it's nice, but one problem is that it seems it's not possible to use a menu from it
[15:53]	Laetizia Coronet:	Is it? I never played much games before SL and I have no problems
[15:53]	Squirrel Wood:	http://sauerbraten.org/
[15:53]	Dale Glass:	maybe make hotkeys?
[15:54]	Squirrel Wood:	a relatively simple game engine
[15:54]	Benjamin Linden:	how did you learn the camera controls, Laetizia?
[15:54]	Delaynie Barbosa:	The performanceand stability problems no longer bother me. You get used tothe bugs, which are to be expected an any program with this much content.
[15:54]	Wyn Galbraith:	Ah, there's amovie called the Cube, people are stuck in this cube.
[15:54]	Benjamin Linden:	where can I find it Squirrel?
[15:54]	Dale Glass:	it's annoying as I can walk to a door, click, it pops up a menu, and then I have to exit mouselook to click the open button
[15:54]	Laetizia Coronet:	someone told me, first the cam control arrows, later the alt and ctrl thing
[15:54]	Kii Lilliehook:	make the camera movement window visible by default. That would help newbies.
[15:54]	Benjamin Linden:	I've seen Cube the movie
[15:54]	lufpleh Obstreperous thought the original orientation islands made SL very approachable, new OI's are intimidating
[15:54]	Wyn Galbraith:	Pretty pictures. Weird movie isn't it?
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden:	I agree, Kii
[15:55]	Laetizia Coronet:	yes luf I agree, the OIs are not very practical
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden:	we are considering that
[15:55]	Saijanai Kuhn:	I have a newbie avatar parkede at one fo the islands. Sometimes I log into give newbies a nudge off the island if they are stuck
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden:	we are also considering scaling back the complexity of OI
[15:55]	Saijanai Kuhn:	Did you guys check out that issue with the dialog box?
[15:55]	Saijanai Kuhn:	Benjamin?
[15:55]	Wyn Galbraith:	OI?
[15:55]	Delaynie Barbosa:	whats OI?
[15:55]	Benja Kepler:	OI? or UI?
[15:55]	Squirrel Wood:	http://sauerbraten.org/ <= Its open sauce
[15:55]	Laetizia Coronet:	Sai, do you get to see many Mentors there?
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden:	which issue is that Saijanai
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden:	OI = orientation island
[15:55]	Laetizia Coronet:	OI = Orientation Island
[15:55]	Benja Kepler:	OH
[15:55]	Benja Kepler:	OI
[15:56]	Benja Kepler:	OK
[15:56]	Wyn Galbraith:	OH.
[15:56]	Delaynie Barbosa:	oh, lol.
[15:56]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	Nice idea Saijanai, I think I might make 50 alts to cover all the new OI's!! lol
[15:56]	Wyn Galbraith:	No they're not.
[15:56]	Laetizia Coronet:	oi gevalt...
[15:56]	Saijanai Kuhn:	where the sign and the text message say your're getting the teleport, but instead you get a dialog box you have to accept to get the teleport landmark
[15:56]	Benjamin Linden:	why did you suggest looking at this, Squirrel, do you like their movement scheme?
[15:56]	Benja Kepler:	Benjamin, my blog gets searches every day on how to leave OI, BTW
[15:56]	Laetizia Coronet:	yes!
[15:56]	Saijanai Kuhn:	at least some people find that confusing
[15:56]	Wyn Galbraith applied for SL Mentor.
[15:56]	Delaynie Barbosa:	I don't think OI is that complex. I see a lot of problems with newbies that don't know how to do anything in-world. The problem seems to be they really aren't completing the tutorials. Perhaps it would beneficial to start a program to stress the importance of completing OI and HI before moving in world.
[15:57]	Benjamin Linden:	Benja that's very helpful to know, thanks
[15:57]	Benja Kepler:	k
[15:57]	Laetizia Coronet:	but that is something to take up with Blue and whatsername
[15:57]	Wyn Galbraith:	Like open a box.
[15:57]	Wyn Galbraith:	Mia?
[15:57]	Laetizia Coronet:	I'll do that next time we meet
[15:57]	Laetizia Coronet:	her too yes
[15:57]	Squirrel Wood:	It may be something of interest to some of the developers :)
[15:57]	Saijanai Kuhn:	yo click the sign and you're told click on the teleport, but intead you have to click the accept button for the dialog box THEN click.
[15:57]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	Delaynie have you tried to complete the new OI's, I and several friends failed even though we were relatively experienced
[15:58]	Saijanai Kuhn:	I got lost with the communications god, myself
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden:	Saijanai, I'm not sure I'm completely following, have you filed a bug with screenshots on the issue tracker?
[15:58]	Saijanai Kuhn:	no. I thought I mentionecd it to you earler, sorry
[15:58]	Kii Lilliehook:	I've got stuck in OI as well.
[15:59]	Benjamin Linden:	I think you may have, but I don't recall the specifics, sorry
[15:59]	Squirrel Wood:	Bedtime for this squirrel
[15:59]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, we're about out of time
[15:59]	Benja Kepler:	ok!
[15:59]	Benjamin Linden:	I would like to talk some more about movement and camera control
[15:59]	Benja Kepler:	good night all
[15:59]	Saijanai Kuhn:	will make a screenshot and jira it. It should be a trivial fix, but not sure that is the main problem
[15:59]	Laetizia Coronet:	good night Squirrel
[15:59]	Dale Glass:	later :-)
[15:59]	Benjamin Linden:	so please think about that a bit further, and bring suggestions for other examples (games, 3d apps) that you like
[15:59]	Wyn Galbraith:	Sleep sweet.
[15:59]	Laetizia Coronet:	ok Benjamin
[15:59]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	I'm happy with camera using Alt + arrow keys
[15:59]	Saijanai Kuhn:	nite squirrel
[15:59]	Saijanai Kuhn:	nutty dreams
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden:	wand on
[16:00]	Starax's Magic Wand - V2.26+: I'm really turned on now
[16:00]	Delaynie Barbosa:	Quite interesting. This was an informative meeting to attend. Nice meeting you all.
[16:00]	Wyn Galbraith:	No Ruth'd Zombies in your dreams.
[16:00]	Kii Lilliehook:	bye!
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden:	I LOVE residents who attend my office hours :-)
[16:00]	Laetizia Coronet:	liewise Delaynie
[16:00]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[16:00]	Wyn Galbraith:	Thanks ;)
[16:00]	Saijanai Kuhn:	mmmm zombies..,.. (Homer Simpson voice)
[16:00]	Laetizia Coronet:	*likewise
[16:00]	Squirrel Wood:	It's always interesting here
[16:00]	Wyn Galbraith blushes.
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden:	love love love :-)
[16:00]	Delaynie Barbosa:	:-) I will come more often then. :-)
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden:	good idea!
[16:01]	Wyn Galbraith:	Look an idea fell from the sky.
[16:01]	Delaynie Barbosa:	see you next time then. :-)
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	:-) take care everyone!
[16:01]	Saijanai Kuhn:	later Benjamin
[16:01]	Wyn Galbraith:	And hearts.
[16:01]	Wyn Galbraith:	B-bye!!! :D
[16:01]	Laetizia Coronet:	bye Benjamin