User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Aug 28
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Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:
| Torley Linden: | HELLO EVERYONE. | |
| Torley Linden: | FRIENDLY GREETINGS! | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | HELLO TORLEY! | |
| Melanie Milland: | hi torley | |
| Torley Linden: | W00t! | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Hollas! | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Thanks for the comment on my blog, you're the first and I'm honored. | |
| Torley Linden: | Nice to see you all here today. | |
| Torley Linden: | Awww thrilled to read yer blog, Wyn! | |
| Torley Linden: | =o) | |
| Wyn Galbraith needs to write more now. | ||
| Wyn Galbraith: | Doing something about Koi soon. | |
| Cheyene Dagger: | i...need help from a linden if i can get it ;"( | |
| Torley Linden: | That you do! | |
| Torley Linden: | Has anyone else seen an odd bug where you try to go into Appearance mode and you stop mid-way? | |
| Torley Linden: | Your avatar turns around partially, the Appearance editor comes up... | |
| Kymmy Krasner: | yes many a times | |
| Torley Linden: | but you never complete turning around? | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Yes. | |
| Nock Forager: | No | |
| Melanie Milland: | yes | |
| Torley Linden: | Hmmm... yeah I'm looking for a solid repro, because that happens SOME of the time to me, but not always. | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | And you can't see the front. | |
| Torley Linden: | I thought it was my AO but it isn't... | |
| Melanie Milland: | i just use tha camera to complete the swing... | |
| Torley Linden: | I detached everything and sometimes it still happens. | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | I thought so too, Torley. | |
| Nock Forager: | hmhm | |
| Torley Linden: | Okay thanks guys, just checking, I gotta hunt that down further... | |
| Melanie Milland: | :) | |
| Torley Linden: | In the past AOs HAVE interfered... that I'm aware of... | |
| Torley Linden: | *makes notes* | |
| Melanie Milland: | so, you're loaded for bug today :) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | good morning Torley | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | hey all | |
| Turtle whispers: | typically rude. He really means: | |
| Turtle: Hey Wyn Galbraith; Hey Melanie Milland; Hey Squirrel Wood; Hey Kymmy Krasner; Hey Nock Forager; Hey Cheyene Dagger; Hey Benjamin Linden; | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | hey Saijanai | |
| Wyn Galbraith hadn't thought of that. "I could check later with an alt that has nothing on it. | ||
| Wyn Galbraith: | Ruth Littlething. She's always Ruth'd. | |
| Cheyene Dagger: | ok. ;(n bye. | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | what's our agenda today? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | What was your question Cheyene? | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Oh gone? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | let's wait a few more minutes to let people show up | |
| Melanie Milland: | i have a breif question, though | |
| Torley Linden: | BTW, I have another question -- have you guys noticed the Flexible Mesh Detail slider do anything? | |
| Melanie Milland: | i have seen a note on the wiki, that in future viewer version, the friendslist will be separate again - is that true? | |
| Torley Linden: | Melanie, where was that? Source please? :) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Melanie, the contacts list will be separable from the communcate window (if you wish) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | but yes, I'd be curious to know where it says that on the wiki as well | |
| Melanie Milland: | so, will the communicate window be able to shrink to 4-5 lines of text again, then? | |
| Saijanai Kuhn actually likes it the way it is now but would prefer to be able to make the chatterbox a bit shorter, to reveal more screen space below it | ||
| Kymmy Krasner: | it can u just deatch it | |
| Kymmy Krasner: | detach even | |
| Melanie Milland: | yes. i'm a builder - any window less than 1/4 of a screen dimension is intrusive | |
| Benjamin Linden: | yes, you can detach Chat History and shrink it quite small | |
| Melanie Milland: | but i need im and history open at all times | |
| Melanie Milland: | so i need a _very_ short IM window | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | I can shrink the history window to four lines already. | |
| Melanie Milland: | yes | |
| Torley Linden: | I often find myself temporarily hiding the UI to get a better perspective on what the world looks like. | |
| Melanie Milland: | IM is | |
| Kymmy Krasner: | i still prefer the old version as it was eaier when an im came with out having to detach an im window every time | |
| Melanie Milland: | history is no issue | |
| Torley Linden: | AKA Ctrl-Alt-F1. | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | even the current configuration is too tall. If the list off to the side is hidden, you should be able to shrink it down next-to-nothing. If you open that list, it expands to the minium, but when you close th list it shrins back down... | |
| Melanie Milland: | the chatterbox will shrink to 8 or 9, but then firiends is unusable | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Communation window doesn't shrink that far. What about tearing it off. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Melanie, I'll verify that the window can be shrunk if you tear out Contacts | |
| Torley Linden: | :) | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | If you tear it off you can shrink the IM screens down. | |
| Wyn Galbraith does that often. | ||
| Saijanai Kuhn: | let it shrink if contacs are closed | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | contacts* | |
| Melanie Milland: | i need tabbed IMs, tiny history and seperated contacts, | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | It's the communications window that doesn't shrink very far. | |
| Melanie Milland: | i keep contacts tall and narrow on the right, IM top left VERY short and history bottom left also VERY short | |
| Benjamin Linden: | the only potential problem I see with that is if it shrinks too much you won't be able to use the controls in the participant list | |
| Torley Linden: | I believe one problem with IM tabs for a long time is that they're horizontal, not vertical... (has anyone else seen the current AOL messenger?) | |
| Melanie Milland: | with inventory overlapping contacts when needed | |
| Kymmy Krasner: | nope don`t hav it so don`t use | |
| X-Flight, flight assist: All Go | ||
| Melanie Milland: | i like the horizontal tabs just fine | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | let those controls get hidden also | |
| Sidewinder Linden: | in other words so you don't have to scroll whenyou have a lot of open im's right melanie? | |
| Melanie Milland: | and i really need only the "old" IM window | |
| Melanie Milland: | i need no participants list | |
| Melanie Milland: | when a group chat posp up, i close it afain | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Morning Iridium. | |
| Torley Linden: | Heya Sidewinder! | |
| Torley Linden: | Iridium! | |
| Benjamin Linden: | ok looks like we've gotten quorum | |
| Torley Linden: | Look who's come! | |
| Sidewinder Linden: | hi iridium | |
| Torley Linden: | :D | |
| Melanie Milland: | groups, to me, are for mermissions, not socializing | |
| Iridium Linden: | Howdy. | |
| Iridium Linden: | Sidewinder! | |
| Iridium Linden: | Yay! | |
| Melanie Milland: | hi irikdium | |
| Iridium Linden: | Hey Torley and Benjamin. | |
| Iridium Linden: | Hullo, Mel. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we can continue the voice chat discussion on Thursday if you'd like | |
| Benjamin Linden: | here's today's agenda | |
| Benjamin Linden: | http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | And Sidewinder. | |
| Melanie Milland: | also - i believe there is a UI issue filed about muting groups, now that i;d love | |
| Torley Linden: | Yes Melanie, I'm familiar with that longtime too. :D | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I notice we don't have any patches to review today | |
| Benjamin Linden: | bummer! | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Muting groups would help. | |
| Iridium Linden: | Benjamin, at the Machinima panel on Sunday, I collected tons of killer bugs and features for UI. | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | Can I suggest a topic for thursday/ | |
| Benjamin Linden: | sure, Saijanai! | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | That happened yesterday too. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | cool, Iridium | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | No patches, everyone is on vacation. | |
| Torley Linden: | Iridium, I'd sure like to see that list! And hook it into current issues... add citations and quotes etc. | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | factor out the SL viewr framework into a library that can be used separately from the viewer | |
| Torley Linden: | =^_^= | |
| Wyn Galbraith missed Iridium at SLCC - "Couldn't hear." | ||
| Iridium Linden: | Definitely, Tor5ley. | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | I'm working on a GUI widget to add to the bottom of the LSL editor, and by golly the turnaround for testing that little floater is horrid | |
| Iridium Linden: | Torley* | |
| Iridium Linden: | Let's talk later. | |
| Iridium Linden: | kk | |
| Torley Linden: | Haha Torl5y is acceptable too. ;) | |
| Iridium Linden: | lol | |
| Benjamin Linden: | what do you mean, Saijanai? | |
| Iridium Linden: | Shall we begin? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | turnaround from LL? | |
| Torley Linden: | Let us commence! | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | testing the creation of it in code | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-787 | |
| Wyn Galbraith Whoops! | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | I think we imported this already | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | I have to make a code change, start the client, go in-world, look at what I've done, quit SL, make a modification, start the client, go in-world... | |
| Torley Linden: | Hm that's odd I don't see an imported issue. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | ah yes, Saijania, now you know the pain of our developers :-) | |
| Torley Linden: | I'll do it again to make sure it persists. Pardon about that. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | ok, thanks Torley | |
| Wyn Galbraith hasn't played with temp on rez yet. | ||
| Melanie Milland: | yes... 787 bit me just yesterday | |
| Squirrel Wood: | 787... had it happen to me.# | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | testing widget should be a few seconds, not several minutes | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | That's serious then. | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | and... you've got a decent cross-platofrm framework that noe-one is using. | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Morning Aric. | |
| Torley Linden: | Heyo Aric! | |
| Iridium Linden: | Heya, Aric! | |
| Benjamin Linden: | hey Aric | |
| Aric Linden: | Morning all! sorry i'm late | |
| Iridium Linden: | Heyo, I like that, T. | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Got to do a song and dance if late. ;) | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | Cel Edman is tearing his hair out trying to find a cross-platform framework to create a new version of Scuulpty-pain in that doesn't run wih java | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Saijanai, I'd love to chat with you more about this on Thursday | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | and... testing a plug-in API would be mch easier.. | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | etc | |
| Benjamin Linden: | ok let's move on to the next item | |
| Torley Linden: | OK, 787 is imported. Next! | |
| Benjamin Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1982 | |
| Squirrel Wood: | when returning someone's objects on a parcel using the about land window it selects any and all temp objects on the same parcel in addition to the user's prims. It also includes them in the primcount it seems. | |
| Iridium Linden drinks coffee and tries to shake the slow off. | ||
| Torley Linden: | Oh, this one... I think was intentional. | |
| Torley Linden: | This looks like a deliberate design change to save space, yes Ben? | |
| Squirrel Wood: | I'd say won't fix ? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | this one is by design, yes | |
| Benjamin Linden: | also, I'm pretty sure it dupes a similar issue somewhere else | |
| Torley Linden: | OK, "Won't Finish" it is then. Yes, I recall seeing it come up in various forms... | |
| Benjamin Linden: | because I remember commenting on it | |
| Benjamin Linden: | McCabe already covered it | |
| Melanie Milland: | well, it seems the x is hard to hit for some... | |
| Melanie Milland: | i'm ok with it | |
| Melanie Milland: | but that was the gripe | |
| Torley Linden: | Keyboard shortcuts are also an option, remember! | |
| Squirrel Wood: | notebook users may have difficulty with the close box | |
| Melanie Milland: | yes... some ppl have ui at 0.7 | |
| Melanie Milland: | on sxga | |
| Torley Linden: | *marks as Won't Finish* | |
| Melanie Milland: | then x would be rather small :/ | |
| Wyn Galbraith spikes Iridium's coffee with fastjuice. | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | I would suggest that people running the UI at .7 are probably power users and use keyboard shortcuts | |
| Iridium Linden: | k, so won't finish and moving on? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | but I agree we need better buttons for manipulating these windows | |
| Benjamin Linden: | yes, thanks iridium | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1286 | |
| Iridium Linden: | Thanks for the spike, Wyn. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we discussed this one last week too | |
| Benjamin Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1982 | |
| Benjamin Linden: | oops sorry, the one iridum sent | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | We've seen this one before. | |
| Sidewinder Linden: | that reminds me... | |
| Sidewinder Linden: | there may be another one on this | |
| Iridium Linden: | Why did it show up again then? | |
| Iridium Linden: | Did we not import it? | |
| Sidewinder Linden: | but many times alt-zoom seems to not "work" with a point near the center of the screen | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | It's a dupl I think. | |
| Torley Linden: | Yes, see the duplicate... | |
| Sidewinder Linden: | and have to try a point somewhere near the edge to go into the right mode... | |
| Sidewinder Linden: | has anyone else seen this? | |
| Torley Linden: | But Daedalus says it's different. | |
| Melanie Milland: | well, i can't use it with my old GPU it doesn't work at all... | |
| Benjamin Linden: | right, we discussed this last week | |
| Melanie Milland: | on a newer desktop i have, i see the issue | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | It's zooming in on the hollow that he camera goes nuts. It is? Let me read closer :) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I'm pretty sure we imported the other one | |
| Melanie Milland: | but has never been a problem | |
| Iridium Linden: | I wonder why it showed up again in triage. | |
| Torley Linden: | Ben, yes we did. | |
| Melanie Milland: | not even when building | |
| Benjamin Linden: | let me look at the notes | |
| Wyn Galbraith thinks it's the same. | ||
| Torley Linden: | Steve internally mentioned "This does not seem to me to be serious enough to spend time debugging, but reassign it to me if you and Rx feel otherwise. " | |
| Benjamin Linden: | or Torley do you have a link to the imported issue? | |
| Torley Linden: | Imported one is https://jira.lindenlab.com/browse/SL-34698 | |
| Torley Linden: | (Linden internal use only, sorry folks!) | |
| Iridium Linden: | Ah, kk. | |
| Iridium Linden: | Different number. | |
| Iridium Linden: | Lex was reporter on both though, right? | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | It causes problems with the camera. | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | LIke I use hollowed and cut prims for corners to cut down on prims. | |
| Torley Linden: | No Iridium, VWR-98/SL-34698 was reported by Anya Ristow. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | so we should link these up right | |
| Benjamin Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-98 | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | So if you have a closed in place the camera jumps outside. | |
| Torley Linden: | Yes, they are linked as dupes... but the confusion here is that some people think it's a dupe, others say it's different. | |
| Wyn Galbraith thinks so. | ||
| Iridium Linden: | Hmm | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | I bet if one gets fixed the other issue will go away. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I tend to agree with Steve, but if folks feel this is a critical issue to fix, please vote for it | |
| Iridium Linden: | I marked it as a dupe. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks Iridium | |
| Benjamin Linden: | ok next issue | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1627 | |
| Torley Linden: | I've heard of this... | |
| Torley Linden: | See Hamncheese Omlet's comment too. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | hmm, I'm not familiar enough with the classified system to speak to this | |
| Torley Linden: | I think with this one, we should wait until the fix for the related issue comes out and see if it also remedies this. | |
| Torley Linden: | Simon would also know more about this (as he worked on it earlier). | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we should probably still import this and link it internally, don't you think Torley? | |
| Torley Linden: | Yeah, let's do that. | |
| Torley Linden: | I'll ping Simon about it too. | |
| Torley Linden: | *imports* | |
| Benjamin Linden: | ok thanks Torley | |
| Benjamin Linden: | this isn't a UI issue that needs our attention is it? | |
| Wyn Galbraith idles here to answer IMs :) | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | (a design issue, I mean) | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1986 | |
| Torley Linden: | No, it isn't. | |
| Iridium Linden: | K, so imported and moving on, yeah? | |
| Torley Linden: | Yup. :) | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | You guys move so fast! | |
| Melanie Milland: | 1986, yes, my pet peeve | |
| Melanie Milland: | i've seen torley's video | |
| Squirrel Wood: | its classified as bug when it should be a feature request? | |
| Melanie Milland: | so i've seen the way some of you seem to use it... | |
| Torley Linden: | Hehe Melanie. | |
| Melanie Milland: | but some ppl don;t want to pop it up, type and pop it down again | |
| Torley Linden: | I'd prefer to keep the IM window narrow and tall (like a book, line length) but have vertical tabs in the future. | |
| Melanie Milland: | but rather want it open at all times, but teeny | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we can import this as it's being fixed internally | |
| Torley Linden: | OK... *imports* | |
| Benjamin Linden: | but yes, it should be a feature request | |
| Torley Linden: | I'll reclassify it too, thanks... | |
| Melanie Milland: | well, there just has to be an option for a wide and short IM window | |
| Melanie Milland: | i;m not alone on this | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1680 | |
| Benjamin Linden: | yes, Melanie, that's why we're allowing these windows to be separated | |
| Melanie Milland: | and i'd like the "friends" button back, actualy to open and shut the separated window-let | |
| Melanie Milland: | so i can have tabbed IMs open and fiends closed | |
| Melanie Milland: | without redocking (and taking up soace) | |
| Melanie Milland: | just like near me is now | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Melanie, if you'd like to discuss the Voice Chat UI design further, please come to our open discussion on Thursday | |
| Melanie Milland: | the new design of near me is a very intuituve approach,i think, that allows the new behaviour as well as emulating the old | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks Melanie! | |
| Melanie Milland: | yw | |
| Torley Linden: | =) | |
| Melanie Milland: | yes, 1680 has bitten me | |
| Benjamin Linden: | let's import this issue | |
| Torley Linden: | *imports* | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we'll have Richard take a look at it | |
| Benjamin Linden: | the window should remember it's size and position | |
| Melanie Milland: | i have little to say, i can't be vocal about voice... | |
| Melanie Milland: | i'm a linux user and you guys haven't cranked that one out yet | |
| Benjamin Linden: | don't remind me, Melanie :-( | |
| Melanie Milland: | oh, but i do | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I know that's a sore subject for folks | |
| Kymmy Krasner: | heh and voice is no good to peeps like me who r deaf | |
| Torley Linden: | It has been fascinating learning more about how different people communicate. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | agreed, Torley | |
| Melanie Milland: | so why don;t you throw an alpha test version out to mollify the masses LOL | |
| Benjamin Linden: | ok what's our next issue? | |
| Melanie Milland: | i'd alphatest voice... toss trhe blob and i will | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2066 | |
| Iridium Linden: | Moving on ... | |
| Squirrel Wood: | voice... some turn it off on their parcels/sims because they don't want to use it and they don't want anyone else to use it as well. which is kinda sad. :p | |
| Torley Linden: | This is DUPE. | |
| Melanie Milland: | well, some call it noise pollution, or balme it for lag... | |
| Melanie Milland: | anyway... | |
| Melanie Milland: | i believe 2066 may be related to another one | |
| Torley Linden: | I already imported another variant of this one... | |
| Torley Linden: | sec... | |
| Melanie Milland: | nonumber, sorry | |
| Kitty Barnett: | no different than turning off build... land owner pays, owner's choice | |
| Benjamin Linden: | can we track down the issue this is a dupe of? | |
| Torley Linden: | Looking now. | |
| Melanie Milland: | where, when you are on a parcel, and change build perimissions, this is not properly reflected until you leave and reenter the parcel | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks Torley | |
| Melanie Milland: | might be another facet of that issue | |
| Torley Linden: | There are several dupes of this one IIRC. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | that's an interesting issue, Melanie, is there a Jira issue open for that? | |
| Melanie Milland: | i don;t have a number | |
| Benjamin Linden: | but there is one? | |
| Melanie Milland: | also, the build icon reflects the build setting of the land, rather than the viewing user's effective rights | |
| Torley Linden: | DUPE of https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2142 | |
| Torley Linden: | Linking and closing as DUPE. =) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks Torley! | |
| Melanie Milland: | meaning, logically, if i am on a parcel where i am allowed to build through group membership, i should not see no build | |
| Torley Linden: | NP! | |
| Benjamin Linden: | did you get that Iridium | |
| Benjamin Linden: | here's our next one | |
| Benjamin Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2217 | |
| Iridium Linden: | got it | |
| Melanie Milland: | honestly... 2217 is sort of a good way to keep windows neat | |
| Benjamin Linden: | this is interesting. Torley, can you import this so I can discuss it with Richard. | |
| Daedalus Young: | I could just repro it fine | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I agree with Melanie that this could be desired behavior | |
| Iridium Linden: | Whoot! | |
| Iridium Linden: | Moving on then./ | |
| Torley Linden: | Yes. | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-633 | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks, you can assign it to me if you'd like | |
| Torley Linden: | Teamwork! It's great to have our dynamics here, so lively. | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | This doesn't seem to happen in Windows. | |
| Melanie Milland: | if only jira were faster | |
| Torley Linden: | Yes, I wish too Melanie. =) | |
| Aric Linden: | The bug indicates that it's mac specific. | |
| Wyn Galbraith verifies that ;) | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | yes, it's not really a UI issue per se | |
| Aric Linden: | I suspect the issue is a difference in the way the system window handling works | |
| Benjamin Linden: | but it sounds worth importing | |
| Benjamin Linden: | the last comment is helpful | |
| Torley Linden: | I've seen this before... | |
| Iridium Linden: | Import then? | |
| Torley Linden: | OK, *imports* | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1565 | |
| Melanie Milland: | in windows, a minimized window cannot capture the mouse, i believe, unless explicitly coded for it | |
| Melanie Milland: | in mac, capture has to be removed explicitly | |
| Torley Linden: | Daedalus in that issue describes something I've run into many times with snapshots in mouselook, haha! | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I like 1565 | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Torley can you import it and assign it to me? | |
| Torley Linden: | Sure thing Ben! | |
| Torley Linden: | *imports* | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-534 | |
| Iridium Linden: | What a pace. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we have *so much* work to do on our notification system | |
| Torley Linden: | We're going at a pretty good rate. | |
| Melanie Milland: | 1565: i believe accepting items, getting invides, being ejected or leaving, etc, should be in history | |
| Benjamin Linden: | lol Deckard's comment is hilarious | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I wonder how old he is | |
| Kymmy Krasner: | eeewww fire fox i hate that ie | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | I use both Firefox and IE, was able to change the default to Firefox. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Melanie, that's valuable feedback, would you add it to the comments | |
| Melanie Milland: | how often to i need to clear a dialog for an accepted item ii expected, only to later wonder what it was called... | |
| Wyn Galbraith forgets how she did it though. | ||
| Melanie Milland: | history has no record | |
| Torley Linden: | Does anyone have a repro for VWR-534? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Wyn, are you saying this doesn't repro for you? | |
| Torley Linden: | VWR-534 works for me and I have Firefox set as default amongst 4 web browsers. | |
| Aric Linden: | I'd ask for a specific repro from the resident | |
| Torley Linden: | I mean, this doesn't repro for me. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | looks like we should close this as needs more info | |
| Melanie Milland: | linux/fedora/firefox | |
| Nock Forager: | No, I use firefox and works fine. | |
| Melanie Milland: | one install can launch the browser, another fails to | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Nope. I did have a problem with it defaulting to IE, but somewhere I figured out how to change it. | |
| Iridium Linden: | k, moving on then. | |
| Aric Linden: | What? no Opera | |
| Torley Linden: | Sounds good to me Aric and Ben... | |
| Torley Linden: | I use Opera and Safari too... | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | So it now opens tabs in FIrefox and not IE. | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1805 | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Of course after these meetings I have a thousand tabs open. | |
| Melanie Milland: | yesssss 1805!! | |
| Aric Linden: | I think these are two separate issues | |
| Melanie Milland: | it has a comment from me already iirc | |
| Torley Linden: | Haha I am a crazy tab user. | |
| Aric Linden: | I think the first is lag | |
| Aric Linden: | And i think the second is a feature request | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Can't say I've seen that one ever happen | |
| Sidewinder Linden: | big love to melanie for this one "Additionally, often the "Paste" option in inventory does not show where pasting would be possible (e.g. folders). Rather, i get the option to paste only when pointing to an item already in the folder, not when pointing to the folder name. " | |
| Torley Linden: | I've seen effects similar to VWR-1805, I reported a similar internal issue ages ago. | |
| Torley Linden: | Good one Melanie! | |
| Melanie Milland: | :) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Melanie, your comments in this issue are very useful but probably should be filed as a separate bug so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle | |
| Sidewinder Linden: | it's been nonsensical to me for a while that the only way you can paste is by pasting "onto" an item | |
| Melanie Milland: | yes... | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I think these are two different issues | |
| Melanie Milland: | also the autoscroll stinks | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I'd love to see a Jira bug on not seeing paste on a folder | |
| Sidewinder Linden: | item #3 ;) | |
| Melanie Milland: | i have another one there | |
| Melanie Milland: | if you create a new item | |
| Torley Linden: | By the way, internally, this is sort of like https://jira.lindenlab.com/browse/SL-30880 | |
| Melanie Milland: | which, by default, is placed ina folder, say notecards | |
| Melanie Milland: | and a folder above "notecards" is open | |
| Iridium Linden: | Ah, I see that, Torley. | |
| Torley Linden: | I like how Be Holder reported that bug, that's similar to my style, which was adapted from Brent. ;) | |
| Melanie Milland: | then the positioning of the autoscroll will be OFFSET by the height of the items list of that folder | |
| Melanie Milland: | and is then contrained to the inv window's height | |
| Melanie Milland: | wich makes the edit point for the new item jump to the very bottom line of inventory | |
| Torley Linden: | You've clearly done a lot of thinking about this, Melanie. | |
| Melanie Milland: | there are similar issues with invnetory autoscoll in other cases | |
| Wyn Galbraith has been annoyed by that. | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | we have a Jira task open internally to review the context menus in Inventory | |
| Sidewinder Linden: | as well as folder open/closed patterns not resetting in an intuitive way... | |
| Iridium Linden applauds Melanie. | ||
| Iridium Linden: | Shall we link or import this one then? | |
| Kymmy Krasner: | here`s 1 for u in the inventory how come when making folders and naming them they go in to alphabetical order but when doing objects they don`t | |
| Scandal Fride: | ciao a tutti | |
| Torley Linden: | Do you remember which one that is internally, Ben? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | do we have a good report on this specific issue? | |
| Melanie Milland: | if i can ever find the time to make it compile on my system, imight submit my comments in patch form | |
| Torley Linden: | I haven't tried the repro for VWR-1805 recently but those steps worked for me last month. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | ok then we should import it | |
| Torley Linden: | *imports* | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Melanie, can you create a separate jira task with your inventory UI suggestions? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I'd like to be able to track those separately | |
| Iridium Linden: | Want me to see if I can repro it first? | |
| Melanie Milland: | when i find the time... jira is dead slow for me | |
| Melanie Milland: | (UK here) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | yes, it's quite slow for us too unfortunately | |
| Kymmy Krasner: | lol i`m inthe uk too | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Torley I'll track down that other Jira and let you know | |
| Benjamin Linden: | let's move on for now | |
| Torley Linden: | K I've left a reminder in the internal JIRA import. | |
| Torley Linden: | Thanks... | |
| Torley Linden: | Moving on then! | |
| Melanie Milland: | well, get it off the 486 machine, then | |
| Benjamin Linden: | lol | |
| Kymmy Krasner: | lol | |
| Kymmy Krasner: | woot powered by hamsters | |
| Melanie Milland: | no, the white rat they borrowed from the hobonet laptop | |
| Kymmy Krasner: | lol | |
| Squirrel Wood: | You sure its not a 286? ;) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | 1599 looks good, I wonder why the cancel reset button went away | |
| Torley Linden: | Haha I like Hobonet gear, they're a great legacy. | |
| Torley Linden: | Hmmm... well, I think regions need to have mandatory updates in some cases. | |
| Torley Linden: | During rolling restarts, for example. | |
| Melanie Milland: | well, but en EM initiated restart should be abortable | |
| Torley Linden: | For example, that inventory loss fix (recurrence of SVC-242) some weeks back. | |
| Torley Linden: | Yes, that's a good point Melanie. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | right, I think this is referring to restarts that are resident-initiated | |
| Torley Linden: | There may be deeper context here our devs know about. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | let's import it and find out! | |
| Torley Linden: | K! | |
| Melanie Milland: | i guess it was a convenient way, that's all | |
| Melanie Milland: | cutting corners,, know that from some coders | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1472 | |
| Torley Linden: | Hey Ben... | |
| Torley Linden: | Yeah, what I suspected -- https://jira.lindenlab.com/browse/SL-39570 | |
| Iridium Linden: | And we imported 1805 and 1599, right? | |
| Torley Linden: | I'll link to that. | |
| Torley Linden: | Hmmm... | |
| Torley Linden: | Iridium -- | |
| Melanie Milland: | 1472 - lag | |
| Benjamin Linden: | ok thanks Torley | |
| Torley Linden: | I'm closing VWR-1599 as dupe of SVC-477. | |
| Daedalus Young: | 1472 appears to be packet loss related | |
| Melanie Milland: | there is no elegant solution, i fear | |
| Torley Linden: | It's really the same thing -- and I'm importing SVC-477. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | sounds like we need to provide a way for people to cancel their own restarts | |
| Torley Linden: | SVC-477 has a more comprehensive description. | |
| Iridium Linden: | 1805? | |
| Melanie Milland: | related | |
| Benjamin Linden: | ok thanks for all the mad linking skillz Torley :-) | |
| Torley Linden: | ;) | |
| Melanie Milland: | 1472: only one elegant solution... | |
| Melanie Milland: | display a context menu with the single, disabled item "(loading)" in it | |
| Squirrel Wood: | nonono. flash the entire screen in bright red several times while playing an alarm sound ^^ | |
| Benjamin Linden: | this sounds similar to an internal issue we have with the inventory (Torley provided an internal link) | |
| Iridium Linden: | lol, Squirrel | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I agree we need a better solution to this than showing the entire menu | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | LOL | |
| Torley Linden: | Yeah... | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Torley, can you import this and tag it RxTriage? | |
| Torley Linden: | Sure. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1145 | |
| Melanie Milland: | well, no feedback is no good, a dialog too clumsy, a notikfication is overkill | |
| Melanie Milland: | so a (loading) menu item seems best | |
| Iridium Linden: | It would be great to get to that feature request today too. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | which feature request? | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1563 | |
| Iridium Linden: | It's been on the agenda for weeks. | |
| Iridium Linden: | And I think it's reasonable. | |
| Iridium Linden: | Even I've had issues with that. | |
| Iridium Linden: | lol | |
| Melanie Milland: | yes | |
| Melanie Milland: | also the inverse | |
| Melanie Milland: | read my comment | |
| Melanie Milland: | yesterday again | |
| Melanie Milland: | i tried to help a newbie | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I think Paul said he's working on a patch for this | |
| Melanie Milland: | she muted me, then freiended me | |
| Iridium Linden: | Really? | |
| Melanie Milland: | called a friend to talk to her | |
| Melanie Milland: | she gut muted to | |
| Melanie Milland: | then the question "can you help me?" | |
| Melanie Milland: | and then poof | |
| Iridium Linden: | It now has 10 votes. | |
| Torley Linden: | Paul Churchill said "OK : I'll develop a prototype and share it here. Expect something by 21-Aug-2007 (ready for triage.)" | |
| Torley Linden: | I don't recall hearing from him on that, however. | |
| Melanie Milland: | you're not going to see her again in SL, is my bet | |
| Benjamin Linden: | but our current design thinking on this is that we should change it so that when someone tries to interract with someone they muted, it will tell them they've muted that person and offer to unmut | |
| Iridium Linden: | Yay!! | |
| Benjamin Linden: | *unmute | |
| Melanie Milland: | ys=es but imho the muted person shoudl see she has been muted, too | |
| Melanie Milland: | and all the comments about money transactions are valid, too | |
| Benjamin Linden: | that's an interesting privacy consideration | |
| Kitty Barnett: | you can tell if you're muted already if you really want to | |
| Iridium Linden: | k, well we may have a patch coming on that, so let's move on to another bug while we have a minute. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | do you want everyone you've muted to know you've muted them? | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1563 | |
| Melanie Milland: | of course and i think they have a right | |
| Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1145 | |
| Iridium Linden: | That one. | |
| Iridium Linden: | Sorry | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | How can you tell if you're muted? | |
| Melanie Milland: | as i wrote, anyone who intentionally mytes be gats a ban in return | |
| Melanie Milland: | it;s my rught, too | |
| Daedalus Young: | hm, I sometimes mute and unmute random people if somebody is playing an annoying gesture | |
| Melanie Milland: | give them a notecard | |
| Daedalus Young: | to see who it is | |
| Torley Linden: | VWR-1145 seems like a nonstandard config... | |
| Melanie Milland: | if it;s refused instantly, you are | |
| Kitty Barnett: | no, because half of the time when someone is annoying you can cut them off with "muted" and stop typing without having to actually mute them.... | |
| Torley Linden: | Wonder if something with the directory paths is wrong... | |
| Kitty Barnett: | and you can tell if they're online... drop them a notecard, and if it's an instant decline, you're muted | |
| Sidewinder Linden: | have to run see you guys.. new pace record :) | |
| Daedalus Young: | bye Side | |
| Melanie Milland: | i believe the muted person has a right to know | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks for coming Sidwinder | |
| Torley Linden: | Have a good one Sidewinder! | |
| Melanie Milland: | so she doesn't need to waste keystroikes | |
| Torley Linden: | Kitty: Or they're in BUSY mode... ;) | |
| Melanie Milland: | mute is nut used for griefers, but to sellte personal disputes | |
| Benjamin Linden: | this is definitely something I'd like to get more feedback from the community on | |
| Iridium Linden notes that we're out of time. | ||
| Kitty Barnett: | Torley-but then you'd see their busy message :) | |
| Sabina Stenvaag: | i'veused mute for griefers | |
| Benjamin Linden: | personally I'm not sure that I want other to know if I've muted them | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Ah... | |
| Torley Linden: | I think we need more of a repro on VWR-1145. | |
| Melanie Milland: | the current way is sneaky and underhanded and i very strongly disagree with it | |
| Sabina Stenvaag: | dont want them to know it either | |
| Wyn Galbraith has muted griefers too. | ||
| Iridium Linden: | I agree with Ben. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Torley, are you able to see the help file 1145 refers to? | |
| Melanie Milland: | why wouldn;t you? | |
| Iridium Linden: | I think letting someone know that they've been muted creates an uncertain social dynamic that may be inappropriate. | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Hmm.... As of late I have found myself twice in the situation where I had suddenly another player muted. without me doing anything in that regard. | |
| Melanie Milland: | afraif if retailiation? which is totally within the right of the muted, IMHO | |
| Torley Linden: | Hmmm... to repro this Ben I'd have to try to connect to a downed Grid it seems. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | right Iridium | |
| Iridium Linden: | But I think knowing that you've muted someone is helpful to the user. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | it seems like a reasonable repro on 1145 so we probably should go ahead and import it | |
| Torley Linden: | I'd like to have a screenshot of the exact error message and button. | |
| Torley Linden: | OK... | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | I don't think someone should strike back for being muted. | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | If you mute me it's your loss. :) | |
| Sabina Stenvaag: | might hurt thier feelings if they knew i dont wanna hear them! but YES knowing if I have muted them is good--i frequently have to check my muted list to see if i accidently muted one | |
| Daedalus Young: | I'll see how 1145 works on Mac too | |
| Benjamin Linden: | sounds like it's pointing to a file that we're not including in the download | |
| Kitty Barnett: | I just tell people they're muted... works all the time..... if they could see it was just idle, I'd have to actually mute them which is blah | |
| Torley Linden: | Yeah I know we've revised some of those over time... | |
| Torley Linden: | In any case, VWR-1145 is imported. | |
| Sabina Stenvaag: | yes--most times TELLING them theyre muted works | |
| Melanie Milland: | well, i want to know when i;m wasting my breah and time | |
| Benjamin Linden: | ok folks we're out of time | |
| Iridium Linden: | Yes, but often Residents are mute and are muted in delicate situations. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | please add your comments on muting to the jira task | |
| Melanie Milland: | i did | |
| Benjamin Linden: | it will be really helpful as we decide how to fix this | |
| Iridium Linden: | If you will tell someone that they've been muted, then fair enough. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks Melanie | |
| Torley Linden: | That muting one is certain fertile grounds for discussion. | |
| Kitty Barnett: | generally you'd have a good indication when you get muted during a conversation... usually lots of yelling and shouting comes before that :) | |
| Iridium Linden: | But leave yourself the option of not letting them know too. | |
| Wyn Galbraith loves mute | ||
| Iridium Linden: | lol, Kitty. | |
| Sabina Stenvaag: | Thanks! | |
| Melanie Milland: | well, i belive there should be no mute | |
| Torley Linden: | I remember when James added more capabilities to Mute, like so sounds and teleport offers were muted too. | |
| Melanie Milland: | but that;s just me | |
| Torley Linden: | :) | |
| Torley Linden: | Ah memories. | |
| Squirrel Wood points Torley to IM for youtube url ^^ | ||
| Iridium Linden: | haha | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | I've used mute in cases of chat spam. | |
| Daedalus Young: | I loved Mute the moment I got a texture spam | |
| Torley Linden: | Oh thanks Squirrel I'll clip that for l8r. =) | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | If someone spams the chat I mute them so I can read what others are saying. | |
| Iridium Linden: | Torley, you remember when everyone freaked out when telehubs were removed and Residents could tp freely? | |
| Torley Linden: | HAHAHA YES I DO! | |
| Iridium Linden: | Everyone thought the grid would break. | |
| Torley Linden: | I was part of the protest... | |
| Iridium Linden: | It created such an anxiety. | |
| Iridium Linden: | NO! | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | LOL | |
| Torley Linden: | I took a particle torch... and burned down telehubs, or tried to. | |
| Iridium Linden: | tell me!!! | |
| Kitty Barnett: | good for people who go through all their gestures 10 times in public during an event too :o | |
| Iridium Linden: | lmfao | |
| Kitty Barnett: | lol Torley :o | |
| Torley Linden: | There are pictures of me doing that somewhere out there. ;) | |
| Melanie Milland: | lol | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Too funny. | |
| Torley Linden: | I never heard the saying "scoop mall" used so much in a single month. | |
| Iridium Linden: | omg, I need the details of that one, Torley. | |
| Daedalus Young: | it's too bad though imho the old telehub places now are barren land | |
| Torley Linden: | And then looking back it seems so small. | |
| Iridium Linden: | lmfao | |
| Daedalus Young: | it would be nice to have -something- on it | |
| Torley Linden: | Most are, some became the Infohubs... which was one of my earlier projects here at LL. | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Teletubbies! | |
| Melanie Milland: | one OT question? | |
| Squirrel Wood: | or was that Telehubbies? | |
| Iridium Linden: | Yeah, the panic. | |
| Torley Linden: | 14 Infohubs was the first round... ahh... old timer's tales. | |
| Melanie Milland: | why can't we get the trees on the "Linden roads" removed? | |
| Kymmy Krasner: | just wondering if any of u lindens can help me | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Telehubbies LOL | |
| Iridium Linden: | And now we panic over voice instead. | |
| Iridium Linden: | hehe | |
| Torley Linden: | I used to say that pun myself Squirrel. :) | |
| Melanie Milland: | somethines they are a problem | |
| Torley Linden: | Anyhoo folks so good to spend time with you... | |
| Daedalus Young: | roads again! :) | |
| Torley Linden: | Ben and I have got to head to another meeting. | |
| Melanie Milland: | lol telehubbies gotta remember that | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Whatever you do someone will see it as evil. | |
| Torley Linden: | Re: roads, see and comment on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-602 ! | |
| Iridium Linden: | k, so we're importing the last one, no? | |
| Daedalus Young: | ok, say hi to the other Lindens there :P | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Bye Lindens have a good day. | |
| Torley Linden: | Take care all... ^_^ | |
| Torley Linden: | Thanks for helping us go through these bugs! | |
| Torley Linden: | w3wt w3wt! | |