User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Jul 05

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[15:03]	Ancient Shriner:	Greetings Benjamin
[15:03]	Squirrel Wood:	Yellow Ben ^^
[15:03]	Benjamin Linden:	hi folks
[15:03]	Laetizia Coronet:	hi Benjamin
[15:03]	Benja Kepler:	hiya
[15:03]	Benjamin Linden:	this is a big crowd for a Thursday!
[15:03]	Abbee Oh:	hey
[15:03]	Ancient Shriner:	Well, you got me interested last week
[15:03]	Ancient Shriner:	so here I am
[15:03]	Benjamin Linden:	great, good to see you Ancient
[15:04]	Benjamin Linden:	so what's on people's minds?
[15:04]	Benjamin Linden:	we should have a new voice first look next week
[15:04]	Squirrel Wood:	Yay ^^
[15:04]	Ancient Shriner:	<doesn't wan tto be rude and go first . . .
[15:04]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm excited because it will make big improvements to the communicate window
[15:04]	Laetizia Coronet:	good, you can hear my baritone :/
[15:04]	Wyn Galbraith:	Cool.
[15:04]	Very Susanti:	the new firstlook client, the near me box won't allow you to hide the speaker list like group chat
[15:04]	Saijanai Kuhn:	current one only semi-fixed the spacer issue in the chatter bosx
[15:05]	Saijanai Kuhn:	space issue
[15:05]	Wyn Galbraith:	The join call thing for groups is annoying too.
[15:05]	Benjamin Linden:	Saijanai, when you say semi-fixed, what do you mean?
[15:05]	Benjamin Linden:	and Wyn, can you elaborate?
[15:05]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	lol, Benjamin is the beta grid 1.18 what the new first look will loook like
[15:05]	Ancient Shriner:	Yes, a checkbox system that allows you to have folders and calling cards within them
[15:05]	Very Susanti:	yeah it would be usefull if we knew which group call we were about to join
[15:05]	Ancient Shriner:	to build groups
[15:06]	Ancient Shriner:	Have a special folder in your inventory
[15:06]	Saijanai Kuhn:	from what I recall (not using it TM) the extra voice-related panels are hideable everywhere except in the nearby tab
[15:06]	Ancient Shriner:	called Commo or something
[15:06]	Wyn Galbraith:	In Rob's meeting I kept getting join call blue popups for the scripters group I'm in. From the same two people, over and over andover.
[15:06]	Benjamin Linden:	actually Lufpleh, I'm not sure what's out on aditi right now
[15:06]	Ancient Shriner:	and you can create sub folders within it
[15:06]	Shaun Altman:	back sry
[15:06]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, that's the last piece that needs to be fixed (near me)
[15:06]	Ancient Shriner:	and then you can drag calling cards into sub folders
[15:06]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	whats there still takes up to much space
[15:06]	Ancient Shriner:	and right click the folder and say Group Voice
[15:06]	Ancient Shriner:	or somesuch
[15:07]	Ancient Shriner:	and all the people's cards in the folder who were online would be included
[15:07]	Ancient Shriner:	and you could make as many as you wanted
[15:07]	Laetizia Coronet:	I've seen Torley's snaps - could it be that you people just work on screens which are way bigger than average?
[15:07]	Dale Glass:	I generally use 1280x1024 and 1600x1200, depending on which monitor it is
[15:08]	Ancient Shriner:	1280 x 1024 here
[15:08]	Laetizia Coronet:	I am always on 1240-740
[15:08]	Laetizia Coronet:	wide screen laptop
[15:08]	Saijanai Kuhn:	speaking of screrens, when UI suggestions ar eraised, it would be good to have people submit drawings of the current interface and the proposed interface.
[15:08]	Shaun Altman:	mine is 1680x1050
[15:08]	Very Susanti:	OK so near me will look the same as group then
[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	can I get a sense from people how big is too big for this window?
[15:09]	Benjamin Linden:	or rather, how big they normally have it open
[15:09]	Ancient Shriner:	I always run it max
[15:09]	Masta12 Runo:	aahey MISTER LINDEN
[15:09]	Masta12 Runo:	HELP
[15:09]	Laetizia Coronet:	yeah max here too
[15:09]	Saijanai Kuhn:	anything larger than a single line of the current text, for some. That should be the goal, even if unreachable
[15:09]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry, not SL the communicate window
[15:09]	Ancient Shriner:	I keep the Windows bar on the bottom open though
[15:09]	Very Susanti:	I have the chatterbox usually set to the minumum height
[15:09]	Ancient Shriner:	oh, default
[15:09]	Masta12 Runo:	Linden Help
[15:09]	Shaun Altman:	my communicate window takes up about 20% of the scree
[15:09]	Shaun Altman:	n
[15:09]	Very Susanti:	except now where it runs the full screen to keep up
[15:09]	Ancient Shriner:	and I move them with history abvove
[15:09]	Ancient Shriner:	IM's below
[15:09]	Masta12 Runo shouts: Linden Help
[15:10]	Benja Kepler:	surely it is for people to resize it for the use they want - like right now, it is the whole screen as I don't need to see who is here to follow a discussion
[15:10]	Very Susanti:	I close it entirely when I am building
[15:10]	Shaun Altman:	which is ok with me.. I am used to having to sometimes drag the IM window all the way across
[15:10]	Ancient Shriner:	I do too Very, when building I close them
[15:10]	Benjamin Linden:	the default chat history window is 498 pixels wide and 170 pixels high
[15:10]	Ancient Shriner:	I run that Benjamin
[15:10]	Ancient Shriner:	but I keep one for IM and one for History up at the same time
[15:10]	Ancient Shriner:	History above
[15:11]	Benjamin Linden:	right, so you tear our the Near Me tab
[15:11]	Benjamin Linden:	*out
[15:11]	Ancient Shriner:	yes
[15:11]	Laetizia Coronet:	well the placement of windows is personal, I find as a leftie I usually run things in a different way
[15:11]	Very Susanti:	I seldom do
[15:11]	Benjamin Linden:	it will be interesting to see if new users do that
[15:11]	Shaun Altman:	how do you do that ancient?
[15:11]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	the old default history size was ok, but it only contained chat history so was ok
[15:11]	Very Susanti:	in fact it is one of the things I like
[15:11]	Benjamin Linden:	people who aren't already used to the old UI
[15:11]	Shaun Altman:	Benjamin: they probably won't if it isn't immediately obvious how to
[15:12]	Ancient Shriner:	agreed
[15:12]	Shaun Altman:	I'm clicking about and can't figure it out myself hehe
[15:12]	Saijanai Kuhn:	that was the other thing I noted also: like, huh?
[15:12]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	now trying to fit to much into the same space means you dont have a useable area for the history
[15:12]	Very Susanti:	I really wish there was a way to reorder the tabs, so my more important conversations could be grouped at the front
[15:12]	Squirrel Wood:	I usually have the chat history open but keep other chat windows closed whenever possible
[15:12]	Ancient Shriner:	Good one Very
[15:12]	Ancient Shriner:	great suggestion
[15:12]	Benjamin Linden:	Very likes to bring that up at my office hours :-)
[15:13]	Very Susanti:	hehe I bring it up every meeting
[15:13]	Laetizia Coronet:	I was wondering if a feature could be added to snapshots, or maybe it already is
[15:13]	Shaun Altman:	Very: yes plz! :) I'd love that too
[15:13]	Very Susanti:	at least twice
[15:13]	Ancient Shriner:	lol
[15:13]	Ancient Shriner:	glad to be on the inside of that joke now
[15:13]	Laetizia Coronet:	to wit, the possibility to individually name each photo
[15:13]	Very Susanti:	I should add it to jira
[15:13]	Shaun Altman:	here's another UI suggestion.. when I double click a name in "near me", can it pull up an IM window?
[15:14]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	given up on the new comunicate chat history, reset preferances so chat stays on screen longer
[15:14]	Shaun Altman:	or maybe have an IM button in addition to just profile?
[15:14]	Laetizia Coronet:	right I could do that
[15:14]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, I want to get that added
[15:14]	Benjamin Linden:	it's on my list :_)
[15:14]	Saijanai Kuhn:	voetes for doule-click option
[15:14]	Laetizia Coronet:	good, I'll add, you vote :)
[15:14]	Very Susanti:	also I would like to see a paste SLURL button too
[15:15]	Laetizia Coronet:	Very, you can get a slurlchatter
[15:15]	Saijanai Kuhn:	Still plugging this one: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-153
[15:15]	Benjamin Linden:	Very do you have Jira tasks for these suggestions?
[15:15]	Ancient Shriner:	I think for UI
[15:15]	Very Susanti:	I have a tool to do it, but I still need to cut and paste which is tricky when there is lot of chatter hapening
[15:15]	Benjamin Linden:	have you brought this up with Rob, Saijanai?
[15:15]	Very Susanti:	I will add them
[15:15]	Laetizia Coronet:	yes that IS very tricky, true
[15:16]	Ancient Shriner:	removing one of the blue buttons and making icon push buttons that turn on and off interface items
[15:16]	Very Susanti:	and them start pimping them shamelessly
[15:16]	Saijanai Kuhn:	everyone I meet
[15:16]	Laetizia Coronet:	I used to be a chair hopper, I know ;)
[15:16]	Ancient Shriner:	and for noobs, it comes with most of the interface turned off
[15:16]	Ancient Shriner:	also, saving UI states
[15:16]	Ancient Shriner:	like a desktop
[15:16]	Ancient Shriner:	would be nice
[15:16]	Ancient Shriner:	setting up a Build State
[15:16]	Benjamin Linden:	these are all great suggestions
[15:16]	Benjamin Linden:	we're talking about building a "noob" UI
[15:16]	Ancient Shriner:	I'm all for it Benjamin
[15:17]	Saijanai Kuhn:	would probably use it
[15:17]	Ancient Shriner:	I would keep using this one I think
[15:17]	Laetizia Coronet:	yes, if it's clear how to 'un-noob'it
[15:17]	Ancient Shriner:	but know complex UI is a deal breaker for some folks coming into SL
[15:17]	Very Susanti:	haha you can log in but not run any gestures or attach any oversized attachments and it logs you out when you make rude comments?
[15:17]	Laetizia Coronet:	I find already lots of newbs have no idea what they have in their ands so to speak
[15:17]	Ancient Shriner:	no more like not build
[15:17]	Ancient Shriner:	not script
[15:17]	Saijanai Kuhn:	one of hte majro MMORPG games created an XML definition for all user interface elements. Have you ever looked at how they did it?
[15:17]	Ancient Shriner:	no tools
[15:17]	Wyn Galbraith:	Avatar Training Wheels!
[15:18]	Ancient Shriner:	something like that
[15:18]	Ancient Shriner:	like orientation island built into the UI
[15:18]	Saijanai Kuhn:	peple would share their favorite GUI with each other
[15:18]	Ancient Shriner:	as you achive certain tasks
[15:18]	Ancient Shriner:	parts of the UI activate
[15:18]	Laetizia Coronet:	well you know some really don't know Search
[15:18]	Laetizia Coronet:	that's so basic to SL experience
[15:18]	Benjamin Linden:	the viewer UI is already defined in XML
[15:18]	Wyn Galbraith:	Oh no, a game to learn the keypresses, that's what Rogue was for to teach VI.
[15:18]	Shaun Altman:	I think it would be neater if the GUI were scripted, as far as sharing
[15:18]	Ancient Shriner:	of couse you could just do the secret combo key and bring up the full UI for experienced folks
[15:19]	Benjamin Linden:	in fact, anyone can go in and change most of the UI today
[15:19]	Shaun Altman:	and there were things like llWindow(), llCheckBox(), etc
[15:19]	Very Susanti:	there will be a button they can push for common phrases like "How do I get a job" and "how 2 sex on u"
[15:19]	Saijanai Kuhn:	I'd prefer a template based on notecards
[15:19]	Laetizia Coronet:	lol Very
[15:19]	Ancient Shriner:	I'm scared to death to write anytyhing for that open source viewer Benjamin
[15:19]	Ancient Shriner:	I know C++
[15:19]	Ancient Shriner:	I've looked at it
[15:19]	Ancient Shriner:	I'm afraid that any work put into it
[15:19]	Benjamin Linden:	but we do want to get to the point where the viewer is truly skinnable and people can share their skins
[15:19]	Ancient Shriner:	will be made obsolete as soon as I'm ready to release
[15:19]	Shaun Altman:	I am too.. I would love to have an easier way to give someone my window :)
[15:20]	Dale Glass:	Shaun, I wouldn't worry
[15:20]	Ancient Shriner:	Yes, I think I was getting close to that with saving window state
[15:20]	Dale Glass:	I've been maintaining my patches for months, there's very little that needs to be fixed with a new release
[15:20]	Ancient Shriner:	all your open windows
[15:20]	Ancient Shriner:	views
[15:20]	Ancient Shriner:	etc
[15:20]	Ancient Shriner:	sizes, orders
[15:20]	Shaun Altman:	well no by scriptable I mean that I would like to be able to do my own things with my window that I give you
[15:20]	Ancient Shriner:	hmmm
[15:20]	Shaun Altman:	like take a poll and fire it off to my server on an http request, etc
[15:20]	Ancient Shriner:	I'm being obtuse
[15:21]	Ancient Shriner:	and thick
[15:21]	Very Susanti:	yeah Dale is right, maintaining patches is a good way to tell if the patch is viable too
[15:21]	Ancient Shriner:	what do you mean?
[15:21]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure I follow
[15:21]	Shaun Altman:	just totally LSL scriptable UI elements that u can do whatever with
[15:21]	Benjamin Linden:	are you concerned that if you edit the XML there will be breaking changes in future releases?
[15:21]	Ancient Shriner:	not only that
[15:21]	Saijanai Kuhn:	at the elast, a better dialog box in LSL
[15:21]	Benjamin Linden:	Shaun, having a scriptable UI is on our roadmap
[15:22]	Benjamin Linden:	but probably not until early next year
[15:22]	Ancient Shriner:	that you'll do away with tag elements all together in favor of cleaner architectures
[15:22]	Saijanai Kuhn:	please don't clutter it up with lots of new calls. Make it notecard or list -driven
[15:22]	Very Susanti:	scriptable UI in what aspect?
[15:22]	Shaun Altman:	ahh cool.. glad to hear it's being considered :)
[15:22]	Shaun Altman:	just hope its in the same context im thinking hehe :)
[15:22]	Shaun Altman:	Very: I'll IM
[15:23]	Benjamin Linden:	Ancient, what do you mean do away with tag elements?
[15:23]	Benja Kepler:	Benjamin, would a skinnable UI include web 2.0 interfaces?
[15:23]	Ancient Shriner:	??
[15:23]	Ancient Shriner:	what do you mean by that Benja?
[15:23]	Saijanai Kuhn:	a notecard or list driven interface would allow external GUI builders
[15:23]	Very Susanti:	yes I brought that up before, at the very least I would like to see a dialog box where the user could type in a string
[15:23]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure what you mean exactly, Benja
[15:23]	Benja Kepler:	well, rather than have a LSL script to bloghud whatever
[15:23]	Benjamin Linden:	do you mean will you be able to make calls to web services?
[15:23]	Benja Kepler:	have a UI interface to Twitter and the like -
[15:24]	Ancient Shriner:	I see that as being 3rd party
[15:24]	Ancient Shriner:	and not build on LL UI
[15:24]	Ancient Shriner:	but that's just me . . .
[15:24]	Benja Kepler:	well, rather than running LSL script to interface
[15:24]	Benjamin Linden:	that would be very cool
[15:24]	Benjamin Linden:	but we haven't gotten far enough with planning to really know if that type of thing will be supported
[15:24]	Laetizia Coronet:	as an option, yes, not as per default
[15:25]	Ancient Shriner:	you can get tools like that now, but they are object or hud bound
[15:25]	Saijanai Kuhn:	please look more deeply into how the commercial systems do their thing. There was an entire community of interface designers in at least one game
[15:25]	Ancient Shriner:	I don't how you could unbind them
[15:25]	Very Susanti:	what about enhancing the llDialogBox to have a textbox too instead of only buttons, that would enable a great many new options to tool builders
[15:25]	Benja Kepler:	yes - it seems though that I type at my keyboard to SL to a script that sends to the Web - it would be less load on SL for the link from the viewer to the web
[15:26]	Ancient Shriner:	I have calendar pickers
[15:26]	Ancient Shriner:	date pickers
[15:26]	Ancient Shriner:	radio buttons
[15:26]	Ancient Shriner:	all that
[15:26]	Saijanai Kuhn:	you need to control placement of buttons and texct and editable text for a dialog box to become useful
[15:26]	Ancient Shriner:	but I plan to sell them as components
[15:26]	Ancient Shriner:	as soon as there is some way to effectively package LSL
[15:26]	Benjamin Linden:	are those for HUDs Ancient?
[15:26]	Ancient Shriner:	can be
[15:26]	Ancient Shriner:	they are done in prims with interobject link message commo
[15:27]	Ancient Shriner:	textures for display
[15:27]	Benjamin Linden:	are they 3d?
[15:27]	Very Susanti:	pickers are one thing, but a way to directly enter text would be a marked step forward
[15:27]	Ancient Shriner:	i can show you . . .
[15:27]	Ancient Shriner:	they are 3d now
[15:27]	Saijanai Kuhn:	to avoid the assets issue, it would have to be a special chat channel
[15:27]	Ancient Shriner:	but could be built into hud with almost no code change
[15:28]	Ancient Shriner:	they are for kiosk
[15:28]	Benjamin Linden:	interesting
[15:28]	Ancient Shriner:	originally
[15:28]	Ancient Shriner:	I showed Glenn a while back
[15:28]	Ancient Shriner:	I believe there would be whole market for what I called UI Widgets
[15:28]	Saijanai Kuhn:	a dialog bxo with editable text would have to send the text to the script via a chennel
[15:28]	Ancient Shriner:	that I don't have
[15:28]	Very Susanti:	what are you showing?
[15:28]	Ancient Shriner:	date pickers
[15:28]	Ancient Shriner:	radio buttons
[15:28]	Ancient Shriner:	number pickers
[15:28]	Ancient Shriner:	time pickers
[15:28]	Ancient Shriner:	that I have
[15:28]	Saijanai Kuhn:	like I said, there is an entire community in at least one of the major MMORPG games dedicated to UI design
[15:29]	Saijanai Kuhn:	by community, I mean dozens and dzoens of websites
[15:29]	Ancient Shriner:	nothing right now Very
[15:29]	Very Susanti:	I am curious to see them
[15:29]	Benjamin Linden:	which game is that Saijanai?
[15:29]	regapi6 Rhode:	Hey, hello :)
[15:29]	Very Susanti:	are they different than the usual hud interfaces?
[15:29]	regapi6 Rhode:	<- Kerunix Flan
[15:29]	Saijanai Kuhn:	WoW I think, but maybe EQ
[15:29]	Very Susanti:	prims as buttons and text placeholders?
[15:29]	Ancient Shriner:	mine are made for temprez in-world pickers
[15:29]	Ancient Shriner:	all prims
[15:30]	Ancient Shriner:	calendar is like 48 prims
[15:30]	Xavier Irwin:	oh an open office hour!
[15:30]	regapi6 Rhode:	and not enough chairs :)
[15:30]	Xavier Irwin:	oh i've sat enough today lol
[15:30]	Very Susanti:	Yeah OK I have coded a number of HUDs
[15:30]	Saijanai Kuhn:	everquest one appears to be what I am thinking of. My QE specialist (son) is on vacation so I can't ask him
[15:30]	Laetizia Coronet:	wow, a pristine Hakajuru Male :P
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Regapi6
[15:31]	Very Susanti:	but having the user enter text is always kinda goofy
[15:31]	Saijanai Kuhn:	http://www.eqinterface.com/
[15:31]	regapi6 Rhode:	Hi benjamin. What's the topic today ? i'm late
[15:31]	Laetizia Coronet:	Regapi UIs
[15:31]	Saijanai Kuhn:	http://www.eqgui.com/
[15:31]	regapi6 Rhode:	ok thx
[15:31]	Benjamin Linden:	we are having general discussion, but right now mostly about customizing/skinning the UI
[15:32]	Ancient Shriner:	and saving/recalling state :-)
[15:32]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, and various other pet feature requests :-)
[15:32]	Ancient Shriner:	speaking of Pets
[15:32]	Ancient Shriner:	it's time to feed my RL pets
[15:32]	Ancient Shriner:	so I thank you for allowing me to thow my 2 cents in
[15:32]	Very Susanti:	I have heard talk abut web pges showing on prims? is that still on the boards and what form will it take? will that be a means of adding a richer UI for client to object communications?
[15:32]	Shaun Altman:	i have to afk a min too, brb
[15:32]	Laetizia Coronet:	yes Benjamin, RL is the biggest bug, work on it!
[15:33]	Ancient Shriner:	All the best everyone, hope to see you around the Grid!
[15:33]	regapi6 Rhode:	I hope you'll continue to fix the 1stlook chatterbox before releasing it :)
[15:33]	Laetizia Coronet:	see you Ancient
[15:33]	regapi6 Rhode:	see you later Ancient
[15:33]	Squirrel Wood:	humm.. How about "multiple" virtual screens with different UI layouts that you can switch through using key combos ?
[15:33]	Saijanai Kuhn:	http://www.eq2interface.com/
[15:33]	Ancient Shriner:	Caio!
[15:33]	Laetizia Coronet:	cool Squirrel
[15:34]	Saijanai Kuhn:	The guilds in the major games design their own raid-oriented interfaces. Sometimes a single intgerface is dediated to a specific boss monster
[15:34]	Squirrel Wood:	so you can quickly recall certain layouts as you need them ^^
[15:34]	Laetizia Coronet:	I'm sure a Gorean would prefer something else than a cyberpunk
[15:34]	Very Susanti:	hehe with memory dots like Poser
[15:34]	regapi6 Rhode:	i tought about something like that. i have tons and tons of IM and i'm planning to switch to dual-screen. All chats on the second screen would be lovely :)
[15:35]	Laetizia Coronet:	wow, dual screen, that's an option
[15:35]	Laetizia Coronet:	I'd have one where I can secretly aim and shoot at people with the mouse ;)
[15:35]	Benjamin Linden:	currently we don't do multi-monitor very well
[15:36]	regapi6 Rhode:	well... it's not really a priority :)
[15:36]	Wyn Galbraith:	Too bad.
[15:36]	Benjamin Linden:	it would be great to be able to drag some of these windows out of the main window onto another screen
[15:36]	Benjamin Linden:	we have some ideas for making that better though
[15:36]	Wyn Galbraith:	It would.
[15:36]	Benjamin Linden:	and yes, Regapi, we're working to fix the chatterbox
[15:36]	Squirrel Wood:	not dual screen but "virtual screens" as in different layout presets
[15:36]	regapi6 Rhode:	i don't rememberif SL support 3DVR helmet, i know a friend had trouble with it
[15:37]	Benja Kepler:	is a wii interface planned?
[15:37]	regapi6 Rhode:	huh ? :)
[15:37]	Benjamin Linden:	I heard there was one demonstrated at Virtual Worlds
[15:37]	Laetizia Coronet:	Wii??
[15:37]	Squirrel Wood:	Wiirtual Worlds ^^
[15:37]	regapi6 Rhode:	you can move the camera with a joystick, so why not a why controller :p
[15:37]	Laetizia Coronet:	Seen an ad for Wii, looked downright dopey sorry
[15:37]	regapi6 Rhode:	wii*
[15:38]	Benjamin Linden:	the Wii actually has some very interesting user interface implications
[15:38]	Benjamin Linden:	it enables a broader range of interactions
[15:38]	Laetizia Coronet:	midefinitely
[15:38]	Saijanai Kuhn:	can hack Wii right now for mosue control. iPhone hack is likely in the future
[15:38]	Laetizia Coronet:	*definitely
[15:38]	Benjamin Linden:	Very, you asked a question about HTML on a prim
[15:38]	Very Susanti:	mosque control? sounds skerry
[15:38]	Benjamin Linden:	that is still being worked on
[15:38]	Very Susanti:	yes I was hoping you saw it
[15:39]	regapi6 Rhode:	i hear more and more prototype done with "holographic" screen. can't wait to have SL in real 3D :)
[15:39]	Laetizia Coronet:	Very lol, sounds useful too :P
[15:39]	regapi6 Rhode:	and 3D UI
[15:39]	Very Susanti:	what form will it take? will input elements and forms be supported?
[15:39]	Laetizia Coronet:	I am already overtaxing the poor Pavillion
[15:40]	regapi6 Rhode:	Apple is planning something like that with their latest look and feel. (time machine, etc ...)
[15:40]	Laetizia Coronet:	I'd love an SL 'light' sometimes
[15:40]	regapi6 Rhode:	how light ?
[15:40]	Benjamin Linden:	we've chatted about SL Light in here before
[15:40]	Benjamin Linden:	it's a very compelling idea
[15:40]	Laetizia Coronet:	well, it ran perfectly last november, so that's be SL 1.13 I guess
[15:40]	Benjamin Linden:	lol
[15:40]	Benja Kepler:	a 'blind viewer'?
[15:41]	regapi6 Rhode:	blinder viewer already exist
[15:41]	regapi6 Rhode:	-er
[15:41]	Laetizia Coronet:	You can keep adding features but will customers keep adding to their sustems to keep up?
[15:41]	Benjamin Linden:	how does it work Regapi?
[15:41]	Very Susanti:	should be possible for open sourcers to make if someone has the time
[15:41]	regapi6 Rhode:	Benjamin, text based interface using libsecondlife. i tested some bot
[15:41]	Wyn Galbraith:	Zero was talking about SL lite this morning.
[15:41]	Very Susanti:	I think for a while there was a chat/IM only version wasn't there?
[15:42]	Benja Kepler:	would make sense for discussions
[15:42]	Laetizia Coronet:	Very, open sourcers are not the most likely group to concern themselves with the problems of those with lesser systems
[15:42]	regapi6 Rhode nods
[15:42]	Very Susanti:	haha what do you mean I have a GXL and a core2 duo
[15:42]	regapi6 Rhode:	too much work to do with the "high end" performance problems
[15:42]	Very Susanti:	GLX
[15:42]	Laetizia Coronet:	even right now I have a 'slideshow' framerate...
[15:43]	regapi6 Rhode:	12fps here
[15:43]	Wyn Galbraith has a core 2 duo, but not the right chips.
[15:43]	Laetizia Coronet:	dunno how much exactly
[15:43]	nigel196 Kidd:	can one of you help me please
[15:43]	Benja Kepler:	Benjamin, will Het-Grid mean more variations of viewers will be possible - that won't have to be upgraded?
[15:43]	regapi6 Rhode:	ctrl-shift-1
[15:43]	Benjamin Linden:	that's the hope, Benja
[15:43]	Very Susanti:	Het Grid is more about simulators than viewers no?
[15:43]	Benja Kepler:	thx
[15:43]	Benjamin Linden:	it's both, Very
[15:44]	Laetizia Coronet:	0.8 fps???
[15:44]	regapi6 Rhode:	huh
[15:44]	Laetizia Coronet:	worse than I thought
[15:44]	Very Susanti:	um 25fps here
[15:44]	Laetizia Coronet:	wow
[15:44]	Benjamin Linden:	people have told me my house is a lag factory :-)
[15:44]	Benja Kepler:	I've switched off all rendering...
[15:44]	regapi6 Rhode:	i'm considering moving to dual SLI 8800GTW with 768MB Ram :)
[15:44]	Laetizia Coronet:	well it's not unusually slow here
[15:44]	regapi6 Rhode:	and quadcore
[15:44]	Very Susanti:	768MB of video Ram helps
[15:44]	Squirrel Wood:	how I understand it, it makes it possible to upgrade things when most convenient, but you will always upgrade to the latest version if you go for it and you will only have a certain time span of free choice. then its forced.
[15:44]	regapi6 Rhode:	GTX
[15:45]	Very Susanti:	yeah that may be it
[15:45]	Laetizia Coronet:	I am on a laptop, it is limited, I never complain about it on blogs and such because it's me
[15:45]	regapi6 Rhode:	very, yes. i follow the texture debug console closely
[15:45]	Benjamin Linden:	that's about right, Suirrel
[15:45]	regapi6 Rhode:	i have 256MB currently, and it fill very quickly
[15:45]	Scope Cleaver:	/ Greetings :)
[15:45]	regapi6 Rhode:	i upgrader to 3GB of RAM too, very, very, very helpfull
[15:46]	Laetizia Coronet:	and I can't expand on this laptop either
[15:46]	Very Susanti:	I have the card set to 16x anti aliasing and anisotropic filtering so my frame rate is lower than it could be
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden:	the key thing is that het grid allows us to roll out different versions of the server to portions of the grid
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden:	the entire grid doesn't have to be upgraded at once
[15:46]	Benja Kepler:	yes, Squirrel, so if you have a viewer for a specific purpose, that isn't affected by new features, it will still run - whereas now you do have to upgrade the viewer
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Scope!
[15:46]	Scope Cleaver:	/ Hello how's everyeone?
[15:47]	Benjamin Linden:	I love my house :-)
[15:47]	regapi6 Rhode:	good
[15:47]	Scope Cleaver:	It's nice :)
[15:47]	regapi6 Rhode:	i mean /Good
[15:47]	Scope Cleaver:	/ Hello Shaun
[15:47]	Very Susanti:	well it makes it more attractive for open source developers to play around with enhancements to the "main" broweser which is a good thing
[15:47]	Laetizia Coronet:	1.7, w/o Shiny and Local Lights
[15:47]	Benja Kepler:	I agree, Very
[15:48]	regapi6 Rhode:	yup, opensource developers do that for fun usually
[15:48]	regapi6 Rhode:	and let the borring stuff to LL :)
[15:48]	Saijanai Kuhn:	was awy. On subject of lag, a dual procesor G5 2Ghz with 3.5 Gigbytes of ram and nothing else showing gets 4.3 fps in this office
[15:48]	Very Susanti:	anyway we need a different name for perfomance due to low frame rates and Lagg which is really about client SIM or slow SIM performance
[15:48]	Very Susanti:	it is all about the graphics card
[15:48]	Saijanai Kuhn:	nvideal 6800GT card with 256 MB of video ram
[15:49]	regapi6 Rhode:	sim performance has been improved with the latest rolling update
[15:49]	regapi6 Rhode:	it was awefull last week
[15:49]	nigel196 Kidd:	you look nice
[15:49]	Very Susanti:	I mean the SIM numbers for here are all like ful speed
[15:49]	Very Susanti:	it is the client that isn't keeping up with all the primmy things here
[15:49]	Saijanai Kuhn:	the card is a high-end gamers car from a year or two a go. In the PC client it would be screaming
[15:50]	Saijanai Kuhn:	the highest I've seen is 30fps while otehr are reporting twice that
[15:50]	Benja Kepler:	hmmm 29fps - but I have turned everything off
[15:50]	Benja Kepler:	lol
[15:50]	regapi6 Rhode:	i don't remember seeing anybody on SLDev working on PowerPC optimization
[15:50]	Squirrel Wood:	Up to 100+ fps in certain places
[15:50]	Laetizia Coronet:	wow am I that limited with my ATI Radeon 200M
[15:51]	Squirrel Wood:	35 here right now with full details
[15:51]	Very Susanti:	I have a 8800GTX with 768 MB and I have 28 right now with quality set to the absolute max
[15:51]	regapi6 Rhode:	Benjamin, any plan about the inventory UI ?
[15:51]	Laetizia Coronet:	not sure what more I can drop now
[15:51]	Squirrel Wood:	geforce 7950gt here... 512 ram
[15:51]	regapi6 Rhode:	i working on that, but couldn't find any cool idea to improve the inventory UI
[15:51]	regapi6 Rhode:	worked*
[15:52]	Saijanai Kuhn:	switched to fullscreen mode and I have 2.1 fps now
[15:52]	Very Susanti:	back to my question on HTML on a prim, is there anyway to find out more about what is planned and where it is on the roadmap?
[15:52]	Benja Kepler:	filter on owner/creator in the Inventory UI?
[15:52]	regapi6 Rhode:	most "gamer" UI are useless in SL, a lot of ppl have more than 10k item while most MMORPG give around 128 item max
[15:52]	Benjamin Linden:	there's been discussion about improving inventory but it's not currently on the roadmap
[15:53]	Laetizia Coronet:	2.3 all detail off
[15:53]	Wyn Galbraith has an idea for inventory, but hasn't looked it up to see if its already done.
[15:53]	Wyn Galbraith:	In
[15:53]	regapi6 Rhode:	maybe somthing like that MacOSX finder UI ?
[15:53]	Very Susanti:	your draw distance also has an effect too
[15:53]	Laetizia Coronet:	64, since a few weeks
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	Very, we're looking at how we can communicate the feature roadmap more broadly to residents
[15:54]	Wyn Galbraith:	One of the big problems I find with inventory is that when you create a new outfit it copies all the copyable things into a new directory, then you end up with duplicates of duplicates.
[15:54]	regapi6 Rhode:	oh also... about User Experience stuff... could you PLEASE set the snapshot default name to something usefull ? like the place and date it was taker ?
[15:54]	Laetizia Coronet:	you mean the future plans or the use of the current UI?
[15:54]	regapi6 Rhode:	taken*
[15:54]	Benjamin Linden:	that's a good idea Regapi
[15:54]	Wyn Galbraith:	Outfits should reference items in inventory and not make copies.
[15:54]	Laetizia Coronet:	yes Regapi, plae would help
[15:54]	Benjamin Linden:	can you open a jira for that :-)
[15:54]	Very Susanti:	haha ok I will add hat to my nagg list
[15:54]	Laetizia Coronet:	place*
[15:54]	regapi6 Rhode:	i have tons of "snapshot" (not on this account of course, but on my main)
[15:55]	Laetizia Coronet:	Regapi, let's open one for both ideas - also renaming each snapshot individually
[15:55]	Benja Kepler:	Wyn - a copy in your Inventory is just a copy of a reference, isn't it?
[15:55]	Laetizia Coronet:	or do we have to do two? They sort of ofverlap
[15:56]	Very Susanti:	I take most snapshot directly to disk naming them as best as I can, which brings up the question, how to I change the name they will be saved too without relogging?
[15:56]	Laetizia Coronet:	then there's the issue of deleting stuff in-world, and having it end up in Trash
[15:56]	Wyn Galbraith:	Nope, it makes a new object.
[15:56]	regapi6 Rhode:	i tought about a way to create "symlink" too... to be able to define many "avatar" with "no-copy" clothes. currently if we "make outfit" with a no-copy item, it move the inventory from one directoty to the new directory
[15:56]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure I understand the question, Very
[15:57]	Laetizia Coronet:	Very but if I make a series of you all here, they'd be named Very_001, Very_oo2 etc and I wouldn't remember who is who
[15:57]	regapi6 Rhode:	or maybe a new tab for "outfit" set
[15:57]	Very Susanti:	when you save a snapsot to disk, you only ge t the option to choose a folder and name for the first pic
[15:57]	Laetizia Coronet:	right
[15:57]	Laetizia Coronet:	I'd like to have the option to name them individually
[15:58]	Very Susanti:	yeah and if I want to take a second set of unrelated pice the I cannot change the sequence name or folder
[15:58]	Laetizia Coronet:	right
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden:	interesting, I didn't realize that
[15:58]	regapi6 Rhode:	mmm
[15:58]	regapi6 Rhode:	something like a iPhoto organization ?
[15:58]	regapi6 Rhode:	create a "roll" of snapshot ?
[15:58]	Very Susanti:	I like the series idea, for like if I am at a show, but I would like to beable to switch the folder and name at somepoint without relogging
[15:58]	Laetizia Coronet:	dunno about iPhoto
[15:59]	Laetizia Coronet:	just a button 'new series' would do
[15:59]	Very Susanti:	exactly
[15:59]	Laetizia Coronet:	you can then choose to do that for each snap or for a series
[15:59]	regapi6 Rhode:	ah, you talk about "snapshot to disk" or snapshot to inventory ?
[15:59]	Laetizia Coronet:	to disk
[15:59]	Wyn Galbraith has thousands of snapshots on her hard disk that say snapshot and a date.
[15:59]	Very Susanti:	and I would like to be able to store my client menu options like "Quiet snapshot to disk" too
[15:59]	Laetizia Coronet:	I neer keep them in inventory
[16:00]	regapi6 Rhode:	ok k. my problem with "snapshot" is snapshot to inventory. they all have the same name
[16:00]	regapi6 Rhode:	i never snapshot to disk :)
[16:00]	Wyn Galbraith:	That too.
[16:00]	Laetizia Coronet:	ah, yes
[16:00]	Laetizia Coronet:	that too, indeed
[16:00]	Wyn Galbraith:	I rename them when the upload.
[16:00]	Very Susanti:	I think I meant to look that one up in the code to see if i can't just add that option manually the the xml preference file
[16:00]	regapi6 Rhode:	yes, but it's annoying :)
[16:00]	Laetizia Coronet:	or the thousand 'objects' you have sometimes after building ;)
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	ok folks I have to run
[16:01]	Very Susanti:	well that is a matter of personal dicipline
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for the great discussion
[16:01]	Laetizia Coronet:	thanks for your time Benjamin
[16:01]	regapi6 Rhode:	thanks for being here :)
[16:01]	Very Susanti:	thank you
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	on Tuesday we're going to try out our new UI bug triage process, so please stop by
[16:01]	Wyn Galbraith shrugs, "Life is filled with the annoying. When you're up to your eyes in sh_t, why duck if someone throws more.
[16:01]	regapi6 Rhode:	anyone will report that on JIRA ? Benjamin ?
[16:02]	Shaun Altman:	see u Benjamin, thanks for the chat
[16:02]	Squirrel Wood:	Erf. I have been totally distracted by a gazillion other things
[16:02]	Benjamin Linden:	report what, Regapi?
[16:02]	Laetizia Coronet:	I will Jira for naming/ grouping picture-to-disk
[16:02]	regapi6 Rhode:	the snapshot "feature"
[16:02]	Saijanai Kuhn:	tnnks benjamin
[16:02]	Saijanai Kuhn:	thanks
[16:02]	Very Susanti:	ie. put you suggestions in Jira so they will be discussed
[16:02]	Benja Kepler:	ok, thanks - gotta go - goodnight all
[16:02]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Saijanai
[16:02]	Wyn Galbraith:	Have a good one Benjamin.
[16:03]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, starting next week we'll be looking at issues in Jira, using a set agenda
[16:03]	regapi6 Rhode:	cool
[16:03]	regapi6 Rhode:	opensource for teh mass :)
[16:03]	Laetizia Coronet:	lol
[16:03]	Very Susanti will start paying noobs to vote on my issues
[16:03]	Wyn Galbraith jumps for joy.
[16:03]	Very Susanti:	(joking)
[16:03]	Benjamin Linden:	haha yep. hope to see you all there!
[16:03]	regapi6 Rhode:	bug triage is working well for SLDev :)
[16:03]	regapi6 Rhode:	you can do feature triage :)
[16:03]	Laetizia Coronet:	Hoooo!
[16:03]	regapi6 Rhode:	bye bye :)
[16:03]	Wyn Galbraith:	B-bye!!! :D
[16:03]	Saijanai Kuhn:	avatar triage
[16:03]	Benjamin Linden:	bye all!
[16:04]	Laetizia Coronet:	bye!
[16:04]	Scope Cleaver:	Later
[16:04]	Wyn Galbraith giggles
[16:04]	Squirrel Wood:	cya ^^