User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Jul 10

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[10:01]	Benjamin Linden:	Good morning, folks!
[10:01]	Helena Lycia:	Hello
[10:01]	Torley Linden:	HEY BEN!!!!
[10:01]	Daedalus Young:	hi
[10:01]	Tommy Parrott:	Welcome Benjamin ;)
[10:01]	Kevin Susenko:	hi
[10:01]	Saijanai Kuhn:	morning Mr Linden...
[10:01]	Daedalus Young:	evening here :P
[10:01]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	amazing what a blog post/ bit of publicity can do!!
[10:01]	Savannah Glimmer:	Hi Benjamin : )
[10:01]	SammyJoe Ewing:	hey Benjamin
[10:01]	Benjamin Linden:	wow huge crowd today :-)
[10:01]	Ima Mechanique:	er morning benjamin
[10:01]	Benja Kepler:	heya
[10:01]	Squirrel Wood:	Hi Ben ^^
[10:01]	Benjamin Linden:	I figured it might get kinda crowded up here
[10:01]	Daedalus Young:	everybody loves a good UI bug
[10:02]	Torley Linden:	it's certainly something people can relate to...
[10:02]	Lounours Beaumont:	Hello. I'm new in this world. Born yesterday. Any good advice ?
[10:02]	Dimitrio Lewis:	and you did announce it, on the internet
[10:02]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Squirrel, mind if I sit by you?
[10:02]	Squirrel Wood:	Yay ^^
[10:02]	Torley Linden:	this place is packed
[10:02]	Benja Kepler:	Benjamin, are you going to publish the whole transcript, or just the imports like in the other bug triage meeting?
[10:02]	Torley Linden:	:D
[10:02]	Iridium Linden:	Sorry.
[10:02]	Saijanai Kuhn:	Dimitrio this is a technical meeting. You'll probably get lost unless you are a programmer
[10:02]	Iridium Linden:	Yikes!
[10:02]	Torley Linden:	heyyy Iridium!
[10:02]	Benjamin Linden:	Ok so for those of you who missed the blog announcement about this meeting, here is what we're working on today
[10:02]	Iridium Linden:	Hi, Torley!
[10:02]	Savannah Glimmer:	Hi Iridium
[10:02]	Iridium Linden:	Hiya, Ben!
[10:02]	Dimitrio Lewis:	noted :)
[10:02]	Retro Jet Pack Black Ver 1.2 whispers: *Ready To Activate. Say '!fly' to activate. Say '!winghelp' for more.*
[10:02]	Iridium Linden:	Hey, folks.
[10:02]	Lounours Beaumont:	thanks
[10:02]	Spikez Stine:	Woot!
[10:02]	Iridium Linden:	Nice to see you all.
[10:02]	Benjamin Linden:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage
[10:03]	Spikez Stine:	It's Torley and Benjamin!
[10:03]	Squirrel Wood gave you AutoSizing Ring Seat 20+.
[10:03]	Squirrel Wood:	use that ring seat thing I gave you to provide seats for another 20+ people ^^
[10:03]	Iridium Linden:	Hey, Dirk.
[10:03]	Torley Linden:	we can make use of many things as chairs.
[10:03]	Benjamin Linden:	Squirrel, I think the ring might be too big for this space
[10:04]	Torley Linden:	"the ring that expanded and blasted us all away!"
[10:04]	Torley Linden:	:O
[10:04]	Benjamin Linden:	let's just see how it goes with folks standing around. it looks like a cool cocktail party
[10:04]	Benjamin Linden:	:-)
[10:04]	Saijanai Kuhn:	mill, mill everyone. We have to look good for the cameras
[10:04]	Ruud Lathrop:	So where is the cocktail?
[10:04]	Torley Linden:	perchance if anyone's here and doesn't know what this is all about, please see Benjamin's earlier blog post -- http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/07/09/announcing-user-interface-bug-triage-meetings/
[10:04]	Saijanai Kuhn:	what's the limit per sim, 50?
[10:04]	Benjamin Linden:	So the plan today is to start going through the list of bugs you guys have entered into the Issue Tracker that have the User Interface component flagged
[10:05]	Bob Bunderfeld:	30 unless you want to lag to hell and back
[10:05]	Benjamin Linden:	we want to keep the meeting pretty focused to we can move efficiently through the bug list
[10:05]	Saijanai Kuhn:	we may get there
[10:05]	Benjamin Linden:	therefore we won't spend a ton of time doing design discussions. what we want to decide is "should we import this into the internal issue tracker or not?"
[10:06]	Bob Bunderfeld:	You mean you don't import ALL bugs into the internal tracker?
[10:06]	Conover's SuperSmooth Flight-Helper 3.0a whispers: Max-Velocity now set to 185 M/s.
[10:06]	Dirk's Dance Bracelet: OWENIMATIONS DUO DANCER v3.4 -- type /99help for instructions
[10:06]	Conover's SuperSmooth Flight-Helper 3.0a whispers: Commands: /flyhelp to get documentation.
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	That's correct Bob. Many bugs that get reported don't have adequate "repro" steps -- in other words, we can't reproduce the bug
[10:07]	Dirk Talamasca:	Sonofa
[10:07]	Tommy Parrott:	Beach
[10:07]	Bob Bunderfeld:	So, MOST bug reports just get dumped and never looked at.
[10:07]	Torley Linden:	It's essential that we have useful info that is actionable -- that we can move forward on, recreate the bug understandably, in order to fix it.
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley may have some thoughts on our import process
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Torley! :-)
[10:07]	Torley Linden:	:)
[10:08]	Torley Linden:	We certainly have imported many bugs -- there's some criteria which helps.
[10:08]	Torley Linden:	For example, a bug with a patch submitted by an open source contributor, that expedites resolution time.
[10:08]	Benja Kepler:	Torley - is the whole transcript of this meeting going tgo published or just the decisions?
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	Bob, the bugs aren't dumped until we actually look at them. That's what this meeting (and Rob's on Monday) is for
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	Benja, we'll be posting the entire transcript
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	So here's the agenda for today
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
[10:09]	Torley Linden:	To see transcripts of Benjamin Linden's previous office hours, you can see his wiki page -- https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Benjamin_Linden
[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	Obviously we won't get through all of these today but this gives you a sense of the scope
[10:09]	Bob Bunderfeld:	Many people aren't capable of reporting bugs in the manner you describe, perhaps having FULL TIME bug takers in-world, say at this location, so those people could get help with Bug Reporting would be helpful.
[10:09]	Torley Linden:	Bob: As my previous blog post elaborated on, education is important and so is being comfortable -- more experienced Residents have been helping newer ones.
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	The agenda is based on this query from the issue tracker:
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=10470
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	Good point Bob. We hope through this process to communicate back to people who report bugs that aren't actionable methods for writing bugs with proper repro steps.
[10:11]	Iridium Linden:	And we're working on flushing out JIRA instructions even more.
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	right, thanks Iridium. Torley and Iridium are here to help with the community aspects of this process.
[10:12]	Torley Linden:	:)
[10:12]	Evy Gardenvale:	does that including a form like the viewer bug tracker for comments too?
[10:12]	Iridium Linden:	Everyone should be able to use JIRA in theory.
[10:12]	Tommy Parrott:	in theory ;)
[10:12]	Lilly Zenovka:	Everyone is not a programmer
[10:12]	Evy Gardenvale:	steps to reproduce the bug for anyone who writes a comment
[10:12]	Kitty Barnett would if it didn't take 10 minutes to load 1 page
[10:12]	Squirrel Wood:	So the better a description details how to make a bug happen the more likely it is to getting fixed asap ^^
[10:12]	Torley Linden:	Lilly: Understood, and it doesn't take a programmer to repro bugs -- good sense of observation and being aware of your surroundings is important.
[10:13]	Dirk Talamasca:	it really isn't that complex
[10:13]	Ima Mechanique:	even programmers find it less than intuitive
[10:13]	Bob Bunderfeld:	Very very few are, and therefore, their bug reports will go to the dump because they didn't know how to write a bug report...seems counter-productive to me
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	which I want to say a bit more about. In order for this process to be sustainable, we really need the community to jump in and help. The reason the agenda is posted on the wiki is so Residents can jump in and say *this* issue got 29 votes and is really important so we should talk about *this* first.
[10:13]	nikodu74 Amat:	fuck you
[10:13]	Lilly Zenovka:	I meant pple may not know which details are important and which are not
[10:13]	Saijanai Kuhn:	its hard to find duplicate bugs and requiests for featres
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	Bob, when we resolve a bug as Won't Fix/Can't Report it gets assigned back to the reporter, so it doesn't go away.
[10:14]	Fae Eriksen:	woops sorry '^^
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	That's true Saijanai, that's one reason I'm super excited Torley is here because he has such a broad knowledge of what's already in Jira
[10:14]	Torley Linden:	An important thing to remember is over time, as you gain experience, you get better. It's like any general life skill, as you practice, you improve. Like how we all started SL as newcomers and learned how to do a variety of things inworld.
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	We want to help you help us. :-)
[10:14]	Torley Linden:	Yup, so don't be afraid. :D
[10:15]	Ruud Lathrop:	lol
[10:15]	Fae's Tummy:	The baby inside you is already accustomed to your voice and listens when you talk.
[10:15]	Daedalus Young:	I'd like to point out Torley's 1st bug report there
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	That's why Torley and Iridium are here
[10:15]	Saijanai Kuhn:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-153
[10:15]	Dirk Felix:	BenJamin, do you have on staff a PhD for user experience and can you tell me the level of experience within Linden Labs
[10:15]	Daedalus Young:	got much better after that
[10:15]	Bob Bunderfeld:	And, if there were Lindens in-world that could help with BUG REPORTING, people wouldn't have to report the same bug over and over because they didn't get it right the first time
[10:15]	Lilly Zenovka:	this are problems we often encounter while triaging Gnome bug reports
[10:15]	Torley Linden:	Bob: This and a number of other points you mention were covered in my previous blog post -- please see http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/07/05/how-to-report-bugs-better/ :)
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	Dirk, we don't have a PhD on staff but I have a masters in Human Computer Interaction :-)
[10:16]	Torley Linden:	More Lindens are including their own repros in the Issue Tracker so you can see how Lindens do it.
[10:16]	Saijanai Kuhn:	note that that has the most vbotes of any jira-lreated issue, and is 3rd for WEB issue votes, and still hasn't been assigned
[10:16]	Bob Bunderfeld:	I did, see my response at http://insidesecondlife.blogspot.com :)
[10:16]	Dirk Felix:	where, what school and years in biz?
[10:16]	Torley Linden:	Oh cool, thanks for taking the time to read it.
[10:16]	Bob Bunderfeld:	And the same to you I'm sure ;)
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry Saijanai, what issue is that?
[10:17]	Saijanai Kuhn:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-153
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	Dirk, Carnegie Mellon, 10+ years
[10:17]	Dirk Talamasca:	Fix the friggin non-resizeable textures in the texture viewer. First they didn't scale vertically, you fixed that and now they don't scale horizontally. It worked perfectly for over three years. If I want to modify a texture that someone has sent to me and I try to save it to my hard drive, it saves disproportionately as well.
[10:17]	Saijanai Kuhn:	making scripting a top-level bug reporting/ suggestion chategory in Jira
[10:17]	Dirk Talamasca:	The texture interface never should have been touched. This issue has since been relegated to a crappy design feature rather than a bug, so no one is paying much attention to it. But if you are unable to modify a texture that you received in game how can you not want to fix that immediately when we obviously know how to do it?
[10:17]	Torley Linden:	Ah yes -- Saijanai, that one isn't so clear. It's not a bug per se but a "New Feature" and something that more Residents would and should give input on.
[10:17]	Dirk Felix:	Ben, do you run HCI at L?
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	ok so to be clear, we're not going to discuss random bugs and features today (we can do that at my Thursday office hours).
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	Let's jump into the agenda or we'll never make it through the list:
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	the first issue is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1549
[10:19]	Ruud Lathrop:	What do you want to hear from use Benjamin?
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	what I'd like you to do is review the bug with me and provide feedback
[10:19]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	thats not radical enough, does not make it any more user friendly, why not revert to the old frinds/IM buttons and just add a call button to those windows and use the acive speakers window
[10:19]	Iridium Linden:	Hmm, that's interesting.
[10:19]	Bob Bunderfeld:	Do you want us to go read these bugs you list and give you feedback?
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	like, "yes this is a problem for me too, or no that never really happens, or maybe we should do this instead"
[10:19]	Ruud Lathrop:	Ok
[10:19]	Benja Kepler:	I don't see it as a problem
[10:20]	Torley Linden:	Bob: Yes please, as we go through each one, we'll be taking live feedback.
[10:20]	Dzonatas Sol:	it helps a lot to know if other experience the issue
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	So this one specifically is about the new Friends tab in the Communicate window
[10:20]	Torley Linden:	Yeah, it can be very gratifying when someone calls out "Hey! I know that problem, it's bothered me for awhile."
[10:20]	Bob Bunderfeld:	It might have been helpful if those were listed on a white-board previously, so we could have all done our studying...fyi for future meets :)
[10:20]	Kevin Susenko:	I would prefer they remain on the side, having two layers of tabs next to each other like that makes it hard to tell which is one is nested in the other.
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	the suggestion is to move the Friends and Groups tabs to the top or bottom of the list
[10:20]	Savannah Glimmer:	My Friends and Near Me, were better separated as Friends and History
[10:20]	Iridium Linden:	Right, this issue has four votes, which helps us determine whether or not you want this issue addressed.
[10:20]	Ruud Lathrop:	Tabs above, it takes less space that way
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Kevin, that is precisely why we went with the vertical tabs, to differentiate them from the tabs at the bottom of the window
[10:21]	Torley Linden:	Bob: This list was shown before the meeting in Ben's blog post.
[10:21]	Squirrel Wood:	yep either above or below in a single line... wastes much less space that way ^^
[10:21]	Dzonatas Sol:	it's a simple change
[10:21]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	thats not radical enough, does not make it any more user friendly, why not revert to the old frinds/IM buttons and just add a call button to those windows and use the acive speakers window
[10:21]	Very Susanti:	I prefered friends as a sperate popup, I have a long list and finding a name is hard in the communicate window
[10:22]	Squirrel Wood:	as for "nested" button/tabs... make them different colors ?
[10:22]	Tommy Parrott:	Me also ;)
[10:22]	Dimitrio Lewis:	The current layout seems like the most appropriate
[10:22]	Ruud Lathrop:	Make a search option in the friendlist?
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	Those of you who are keeping up with First Look know that we are in the process of revising the layout of the communicator window so I'm going to resolve this as Won't Fix. We can re-evaluate the layout of the Friends tab when the new layout is complete
[10:22]	Bob Bunderfeld:	Honestly, I support tabbing for the groups and friendslist. Top or bottom, would be a welcome change.
[10:22]	Iridium Linden:	Different colors make them more accessible?
[10:22]	Bob Bunderfeld:	Groups Green, Friends Blue
[10:22]	Very Susanti:	the new First look is horrible!!!! the group IM think is really broken
[10:22]	Mosley Jewell:	Ben: I agree with that - the whole concept of this communicate window needs to be figure out first
[10:22]	Squirrel Wood:	they make them stand out so you can tell them apart easier?
[10:22]	Ruud Lathrop:	Will that be in release 1.18 benjamin?
[10:23]	Dirk Felix:	colors are aa bandaide to a larger problem
[10:23]	Khamon Fate:	Friends can be green too.
[10:23]	Dzonatas Sol:	sounds reasonable Benjamin
[10:23]	Iridium Linden:	kk, shall we move on?
[10:23]	Bob Bunderfeld:	Only you :)
[10:23]	Torley Linden:	Continuing on then...
[10:23]	Dirk Talamasca:	yes
[10:23]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-365
[10:23]	Dirk Talamasca:	Move on. WE all know the communicate window needs work
[10:23]	Benjamin Linden:	Thanks Iridium
[10:24]	Iridium Linden:	My pleasure.
[10:24]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	on Jeska's blog http://blog.secondlife.com /2007/07/03/new-voice-first-look/ comment 22 Farallon Greyskin has some good points about the communicate window
[10:24]	Benja Kepler:	when did "ALT in mouse mode to click on objects Such as HUDs " work?
[10:24]	Iridium Linden:	Subject here is: Unable to use ALT in mouse mode to click on objects Such as HUDs
[10:24]	Feep Larsson:	My patch for VWR-265 is half-working--you can now click on HUDs in mouselook, but the mouse cursor pops back to the center of the screen after each click.
[10:24]	Bob Bunderfeld:	Is WR-365 a Feature or Bug?
[10:24]	Iridium Linden:	Is everyone looking at the issue?
[10:25]	Feep Larsson:	VWR-365, ratherr
[10:25]	Kevin Susenko:	Yeah, I never noticed you could do that in the first place, it'd be nice to have it though.
[10:25]	Torley Linden:	Thanks for contributing that, Feep.
[10:25]	Feep Larsson:	Sure thing
[10:25]	Dirk Felix:	wait a second, i'm not hearing anything being resolved other than adding colors and if we consider that CHI and other orgs confirm that, then moving on to what?
[10:25]	Dzonatas Sol:	VWR-365 is imported
[10:25]	Daedalus Young:	I personally hardly ever use mouselook anyway, so I never had this problem
[10:25]	Feep Larsson:	The mouse cursor popping to the middle happens because after the click, we oscillate between the gun and the grab tool a few times.
[10:25]	Bob Bunderfeld:	IF Wr-365 is a bug, it has repro steps and corraboration, so why should it be discussed? Shouldn't it just be fixed?
[10:25]	Iridium Linden:	Dirk, please be patient. That's why we discuss these issues on a case by case basis.
[10:26]	Very Susanti:	I hardly use mouselook so it is not too important to me
[10:26]	Dirk Felix:	patient
[10:26]	Torley Linden:	Often with usability issues, there are counterpoints -- fixing something may break another.
[10:26]	Iridium Linden:	It only has 3 votes. That's why we're discussing it with you. :)
[10:26]	Torley Linden:	So it's healthy and a good idea to get a wide variety of feedback for certain issues.
[10:26]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	hardly use mouse look
[10:26]	Squirrel Wood:	that one is pretty straightforward to reproduce
[10:26]	Kevin Susenko:	Dirk: It was resolved to wait until the communicate window got renovated before we start tweaking individual elements of it.
[10:26]	Feep Larsson:	The real bug is that in mouselook, if you hold down ALT in the current viewer, you get the focus tool and it doesn't do anything.
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	does anyone have any feedback on this bug?
[10:27]	Dirk Felix:	hey bubba, i think youre trying to cover too mch when some sense of fundamentals is not being addressed
[10:27]	Torley Linden:	I understand what Feep is saying, I've run into the same problem myself.
[10:27]	Benja Kepler:	Mouselook is used in vehicles? so using the HUD for a aircraft would be important
[10:27]	Iridium Linden:	Me too.
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	did this ever work?
[10:28]	Torley Linden:	I can't personally recall it working before...
[10:28]	Dirk Talamasca:	I have just duplicated it so yes, it is a problem
[10:28]	Kevin Susenko:	I never noticed that you could Alt + Click an HUD in mouselook in the first place. If it's not a bug though, it'd be a nice feature to have.
[10:28]	Torley Linden:	it seems to be a subtle sort of thing.
[10:28]	Torley Linden:	(BTW, I had already imported VWR-365 earlier.)
[10:28]	Helena Lycia:	I think it's an important bug for those that use mouselook a lot, but I'm not one of those so I can't comment really
[10:28]	Feep Larsson:	All the code to make it work was already in there--just masked by the focus tool.
[10:28]	Torley Linden:	(And my apologies, I can't reply to IMs during this time -- so much happening out in the open. :) )
[10:28]	Feep Larsson:	So I think it must have worked at one time.
[10:28]	Benjamin Linden:	Ok since Torley already imported this let's move on. I agree it sounds like a good idea.
[10:28]	Iridium Linden:	So we can mark this one as imported.
[10:28]	Iridium Linden:	:)
[10:29]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1350
[10:29]	LifeFactory Writer:	/Hello :) I apologize to be off topic, but If there is a moment anywhere in the agenda, I would very much like to ask a developer question re: language translation, if you are the appropriate person to ask, Benjamin.
[10:29]	Bob Bunderfeld:	My position is simple, it's a BUG, it has repro steps and corraboration, it shouldn't be up to the populace if it's fixed. A BUG is a BUG, fix it, they followed the steps you requested for reporting it, there were no qualifications like, "If enough want it fixed" then we will.
[10:29]	Iridium Linden:	Subject of VWR-1350 is Color settings do not appear to be applied to LSL default text.
[10:29]	Torley Linden:	Bob: There are times when it's not that simple -- when fixing something may break another, as I mentioned. So we have to consider that. One person's bug may be another's feature -- understanding that empirically is fundamental.
[10:30]	Dzonatas Sol:	1350, untested patch, looks straight forward,... more like a new feature than a bug, however
[10:30]	Torley Linden:	Looks like Jake's already assigned to that one.
[10:30]	Iridium Linden:	Bob, JIRA votes allow us to guage how important a particular bug is to Residents, not whether it ought to be fixed.
[10:30]	Torley Linden:	We can go ahead and import it, then.
[10:30]	Iridium Linden:	Great!
[10:30]	Dzonatas Sol:	yep... just noticed on my screen update =)
[10:30]	Torley Linden:	We can ping Jake later for context...
[10:30]	Iridium Linden:	Moving on ...
[10:30]	Torley Linden:	*imports*
[10:30]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1470
[10:30]	Bob Bunderfeld:	And so one person gets hosed for taking the time to BUG report something. If this is how it will be on BUG REPORTS, I think you should fairly qualify that to the people so they can decide if it REALLY is worth their time to do this.
[10:31]	Daedalus Young:	I've experienced VWR-1470 too
[10:31]	Iridium Linden:	Subject of VWR- 1470 is Buttons (IM, Teleport, Profile, ...) in friends list are disabled when opening friends list window.
[10:31]	Daedalus Young:	it's a bit confusing
[10:31]	Benja Kepler:	the Mute List behaved like this (VWR-1470) once, so there should be consistency
[10:31]	Kitty Barnett:	for 1470.. if the friends list is going away anyway, shouldn't waste time on fixing it
[10:32]	Dzonatas Sol:	1470, very simple change... looks good
[10:32]	Daedalus Young:	it is simple to workaround it too
[10:32]	Daedalus Young:	just click the first entry again
[10:32]	Evy Gardenvale:	i think you should click on a friend before the buttons light up
[10:32]	Evy Gardenvale:	i think you should click on a friend before the buttons light up
[10:32]	Very Susanti:	yes I am for not disabling the buttons, too many times my friends are online but showing as offline for some reason
[10:32]	Helena Lycia:	If this is the bug that occassionally kills the Offer TP button in profiles, then please fix it
[10:32]	Evy Gardenvale:	keeps people from accidently iming the first person the the list
[10:33]	Daedalus Young:	yes, then the fix would be -not- to have anything selected on opening the Friends list
[10:33]	Mosley Jewell:	I wonder if this one also needs to wait until "communicate" settles down
[10:33]	Benjamin Linden:	just so I understand this issue, when you open the Friends list there is no Friend selected by default so the buttons are disabled?
[10:33]	Torley Linden:	Mosley: I wonder the same thing.
[10:33]	Ruud Lathrop:	lol fix the friendslist? Friends are online but not in your friend list :(
[10:33]	Daedalus Young:	the 1st on the list is selected by default now
[10:33]	Daedalus Young:	but the buttons are greyed
[10:33]	Torley Linden:	This bug doesn't appear to be an issue with the First Look: Voice's Communicate window.
[10:33]	Tommy Parrott:	yes;)
[10:33]	Mosley Jewell:	personally, don't like friends being part of communicate, but that's another issue
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	ok yeah that's a bug then, thanks Daedalus
[10:34]	Evy Gardenvale:	the first person on the list "looks" like it's selected but the buttoms are disabled
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley, should we import anyway since Communicate is still in first look?
[10:34]	Torley Linden:	Good idea Ben.
[10:34]	Torley Linden:	*imports*
[10:34]	Very Susanti:	now we are discussing bugs with 0 votes haha, I hope people still need to actually vote to get their feedback heard
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks!
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	Very, let me make a comment about process here.
[10:34]	Dzonatas Sol:	It is reproducible
[10:34]	Dzonatas Sol:	just click the friends button on the bottom of the screen
[10:35]	Kitty Barnett:	it's also not relevant anymore in future versions
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	The reason these issues are at the top is because they have patches attached, in other words someone in the open source community has already fixed the issue
[10:35]	Torley Linden:	I'll also note Nicholaz Beresford, who helped do that patch, is one of our most prolific Open Source contributors. He has a great blog @ http://nicholaz-beresford.blogspot.com/ detailing his insights.
[10:35]	Very Susanti:	oh ok
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	we want to prioritize those bugs because they potentially can be fixed very easily using the submitted code
[10:35]	Mosley Jewell:	firstlook doesn't have a friends button
[10:35]	Mosley Jewell:	it's part of communicate right nopw
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	the next section down is feature requests with patches
[10:35]	Bob Bunderfeld:	and his viewer doesn't crash as much as someone elses :)
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	then bugs without patches
[10:35]	Torley Linden:	If you've ever been curious about the process of how a patch comes to be, I recommend reading it.
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	ok so next issue
[10:36]	Very Susanti:	so I can fix my bug/feature request to help move it to the top of the priority list that is good to know
[10:36]	Torley Linden:	Very: Yup, we highly encourage open source contributions!
[10:36]	Torley Linden:	It's all part of being more active and hands-on and helping us help you better.
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	ok next issue
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1562
[10:37]	Ruud Lathrop:	Hmm help us suck less (where have I heart that more :) )
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	llassert(mNumDescendantsSelected >= 0) with crash and loop. (Debug build)
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	is this a UI bug?
[10:37]	Bob Bunderfeld:	I know this is a very unsupported idea still, but it's a BUG, and a crashing bug, fix it :)
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	it looks more like a scripting bug
[10:37]	Dzonatas Sol:	1562 misfiled?
[10:38]	Dzonatas Sol:	or wrong category
[10:38]	Mosley Jewell:	Ben: What's the definition of a UI bug anyway? (probably the wrong time to ask)
[10:38]	Iridium Linden:	Looks like a scripting bug to me.
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley, can you unflag the User Interface component and import it?
[10:38]	Torley Linden:	Will do.
[10:38]	Dzonatas Sol changes category on it
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Dzonatas!
[10:39]	Iridium Linden:	Which component are we changing to?
[10:39]	Torley Linden:	w00t teamwork. This looks like Source Code?
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	is there an LSL component?
[10:39]	Squirrel Wood:	Sauce code ^^
[10:39]	Iridium Linden:	Ummm, I don't know.
[10:39]	Iridium Linden:	Yeah, we have a scripting component.
[10:40]	Iridium Linden:	And an open source component.
[10:40]	Dzonatas Sol:	changed to Source Code
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	great, let's flag those components
[10:40]	Torley Linden:	I'd go with Source Code for this one -- it's not so much about LSL as actual viewer debugging.
[10:40]	Torley Linden:	Thanks Dzonatas.
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	ok cool, thanks guys
[10:40]	Iridium Linden:	kk
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	alright next up
[10:40]	Torley Linden:	*now imports*
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1578
[10:40]	Benja Kepler:	VWR-1578 is a feature of Communicate window - so is it going to be deferred ?
[10:40]	Torley Linden:	Ahhh these typing quirks!
[10:41]	Torley Linden:	We already have an internal issue matching this very closely...
[10:41]	Very Susanti:	just to be clear on the purpose of this meeting we should be covering UI issues only or LSL issues?
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	Very, we want to stay focused on UI issues in this meeting
[10:41]	Torley Linden:	There appears to be an issue collision tho (see details in dupes) so I'll unwrangle that...
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	we imported that particular bug even though it was misfiled because it already had a fix for a crashing bug attached
[10:41]	Iridium Linden:	KK, so imported already.
[10:41]	Torley Linden:	Benja: We have a patch for this and I think it still repros in First Look, so it's good to keep an eye on.
[10:41]	Daedalus Young:	seems Nicholaz opened a new issue for the patch
[10:41]	Very Susanti:	haha put it in Jira
[10:41]	Torley Linden:	Yes, VWR-1578 has been imported already.
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	ok great
[10:42]	Very Susanti:	then we can discuss it next ime
[10:42]	Iridium Linden:	And we have an internal fix?
[10:42]	Torley Linden:	Iridium: No, we don't, it was never done.
[10:42]	Iridium Linden:	kk
[10:42]	Torley Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-769 describes the older case (thanks Daedalus for reporting that before!).
[10:42]	Iridium Linden:	Next up! Feature Request Patches!
[10:42]	Daedalus Young:	very welcome
[10:42]	Iridium Linden:	Thanks for that link, Torley.
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-447
[10:43]	Daedalus Young:	fixed internally
[10:43]	Very Susanti:	yes I would like this one fixed/added
[10:43]	Dzonatas Sol:	Torley, are you suggesting a new status to put on jiras to label them as "for open sources" instead of importing?
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm this says Fixed Internally
[10:43]	Torley Linden:	Dzonatas: How do you mean?
[10:43]	Torley Linden:	Let me check this VWR-447 closer...
[10:43]	Bob Bunderfeld:	Is that fixed without breaking something else? or should we still vote on it?
[10:44]	Torley Linden:	Sardonyx moves very fast with open source patches, BTW...
[10:44]	Tommy Parrott:	I agree...All in the same location makes it difficult to navigate through the minimized windows ;)
[10:44]	Torley Linden:	I'll ask him to check out the other ones with patches.
[10:44]	Torley Linden:	Ah yes, VWR-447 was just freshly fixed!
[10:44]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, I was just noticing that! lol
[10:44]	Torley Linden:	Committed to maintenance branch, so it's pending a public release (hence why it's "Fixed Internally" and not just "Fixed").
[10:44]	Dzonatas Sol:	ah... that was a note onf VWR-420... didn't mean to confuse
[10:44]	Benjamin Linden:	let's follow up with him after this meeting to make sure we're not spending time on issues he's already fixed
[10:45]	Torley Linden:	*nods*
[10:45]	Iridium Linden:	So 447 fixed internally.
[10:45]	Iridium Linden:	Onto https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1092.
[10:45]	Gibson Willis:	great! (wtg Feep)
[10:45]	Iridium Linden:	Disable mouse hover text on HUDs, since it always only shows the owner's name and generally gets in the way of HUD functionality.
[10:45]	Torley Linden:	That's an intriguing observation.
[10:46]	Squirrel Wood:	yep. that one can be quite annoying
[10:46]	Dimitrio Lewis:	sounds like a reasonable request
[10:46]	Tommy Parrott:	yES;)
[10:46]	Torley Linden:	That's an example of a good repro too -- while told in more of a paragraph than step form, it's followable.
[10:46]	Daedalus Young:	yes, I always expect a tooltip of the button I'm hovering over
[10:46]	Torley Linden:	As we go through these issues we'll see examples of different styles of repros.
[10:46]	Daedalus Young:	instead I get my own name
[10:46]	Dzonatas Sol:	Will that patch UI editing?
[10:47]	Dirk Felix:	do you have any hard data, you know, empiricle eveidence for any of these UI changes?
[10:47]	Dzonatas Sol:	*prevent
[10:47]	Kitty Barnett:	would be more useful if it showed the description to use for tooltip help for a button
[10:47]	Dzonatas Sol:	hmmm...
[10:47]	Evy Gardenvale:	so i understand, how were these bug reports picked... where are the bug reports for sound and group IM problems?
[10:47]	Second Life:	Your object 'Object' has been returned to your inventory lost and found folder from parcel 'Shiny' at LindenWorld C 177.23, 37.7839 due to parcel owner return.
[10:47]	Iridium Linden:	See https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=10470, Evy.
[10:47]	Kevin Susenko:	Yeah, either remove it or put some more useful information in the hover text
[10:47]	Dirk Talamasca:	Is it annoying to the point of taking focus away from another bug?
[10:47]	Squirrel Wood:	llSetPrimToolTip("Yada"); ^^
[10:47]	Torley Linden:	Thanks Iridium. :)
[10:47]	Benjamin Linden:	Evy, these bugs came up when you run the UI Triage Filter on the issue tracker
[10:47]	Dzonatas Sol:	nah... i think it is different it wont prevent ui editing
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	if you want a bug to come up for discussion in this forum it needs to have the User Interface component flagged
[10:48]	Daedalus Young:	yeah, or just the name of the prim, as with non-huds works
[10:48]	Iridium Linden:	So where are we on 1092?
[10:48]	Evy Gardenvale:	k ty, so i take it there will be another meeting using a different filter
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	I agree that the tooltip doesn't seem very helpful on this
[10:48]	Squirrel Wood:	Bug triage every monday at 3pm slt
[10:49]	Torley Linden:	Evy: We're expanding these meetings if they go well -- did you see Ben's original blog post for more info?
[10:49]	Evy Gardenvale:	ty
[10:49]	Squirrel Wood:	that's where the other bugs get discussed
[10:49]	Dirk Talamasca:	I think it is a greed that it is reproducable but is it annoying enough that it requires time be dedicated to it rather than another bug
[10:49]	Torley Linden:	Rob Linden ( https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Rob_Linden ) hosts the triages that Squirrel mentioned.
[10:49]	Torley Linden:	Dirk, there's already a patch for VWR-1092.
[10:49]	Dzonatas Sol:	patch looks good... looks ok to import
[10:50]	Dirk Talamasca:	coolness
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley, let's import it and discuss the relative merits internally
[10:50]	Iridium Linden:	kk, importing.
[10:50]	Torley Linden:	Sounds good to me. *imports*
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks!
[10:50]	Evy Gardenvale:	thx Torey, i'll read it... this is all new to me
[10:50]	Torley Linden:	Evy: Welcome!
[10:50]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-420
[10:51]	Iridium Linden:	Add Day / Date to Time in Menu Bar for Global Scheduling
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	Hmmm!
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	VWR-420 sounds like a dupe!
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	One moment please...
[10:51]	Iridium Linden:	Ya
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	Looks like a dupe of https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-605
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	yeah I think so too
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	Which Zen already fixed.
[10:51]	Daedalus Young:	we already have date as a tooltip
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	I'll link those up... and resolve it as dupe.
[10:51]	Daedalus Young:	hover over the time and it tells you
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	excellent, thanks Torley
[10:51]	Dimitrio Lewis:	neat
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	Connections!
[10:51]	Kitty Barnett:	doesn't work for me
[10:51]	Tommy Parrott:	Nice!
[10:51]	Kevin Susenko:	Hovering over the time doesn't do anything in the firstlook
[10:51]	Iridium Linden:	Fixed
[10:51]	Daedalus Young:	ok, it works in 1.17.3
[10:51]	Dimitrio Lewis:	So many people can't grasp timezones
[10:52]	Ruud Lathrop:	Make it lokale time and SL time
[10:52]	Benjamin Linden:	that fix may not have been merged to First Look yet Kevin
[10:52]	Kitty Barnett is on 1.17.0
[10:52]	Benja Kepler:	Don't forget Internationalisation on VWR-420 , e.g. Friday in Portuguese is Sexta Feira, which would be Sex for short
[10:52]	Very Susanti:	one other process question, shouldn't "Other Bug Reports " be sorted by votes??
[10:52]	Benjamin Linden:	this fix went in to an optional update
[10:52]	Helena Lycia:	Or severity
[10:52]	Benjamin Linden:	Yes, Very, actually we want to look at these by votes but Jira wouldn't do that many sequenced sorts
[10:53]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm hoping someone from the community will go in and put these in proper order :-)
[10:53]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-654
[10:53]	Mathieu Basiat:	Hi, when the "Delay Restart" button was enabled in Region-Estate debug menu, the "Cancel Restart " button went missing, now you can't Canecel a user initiated restart.
[10:53]	Iridium Linden kicks Ben.
[10:53]	Iridium Linden:	hehe
[10:53]	Iridium Linden denies that she is Community.
[10:53]	Very Susanti:	severity is a difficult measure to use since everyone will believe their bugs is the most important
[10:53]	Torley Linden:	I've seen VWR-654 before... this looks useful to me. A small but welcome fix.
[10:53]	Iridium Linden:	Automatically Scroll output window for Tools / Reset all Scripts
[10:53]	Benjamin Linden:	haha I meant the Resident community Iridium
[10:53]	Benjamin Linden:	but you're welcome to have at it :-)
[10:53]	Dzonatas Sol:	VWR-654 was on the bug triage agenda before
[10:53]	Iridium Linden:	Doh!
[10:54]	Torley Linden:	Dzonatas: I'm reading your comments.
[10:54]	Dzonatas Sol:	the patch is no good
[10:54]	Very Susanti hopes an enterprising Linden will do that :))
[10:54]	Torley Linden:	Dzonatas: Why's that? Can you please explain more?
[10:55]	Dzonatas Sol:	the patch uses just a fix high number... it's a bad hack
[10:55]	Dzonatas Sol:	*fixed
[10:55]	Torley Linden:	Can you please include that info in the comments?
[10:55]	Very Susanti:	anyway should be relatively easy to resort once the Jira Api is known
[10:55]	Dzonatas Sol:	it should detect the actual length of the windows and use that size
[10:55]	Dzonatas Sol:	will do
[10:55]	Torley Linden:	Thanks.
[10:55]	Benjamin Linden:	should we assign this back to the reporter then?
[10:56]	Dzonatas Sol:	personally, i like it to not autoscroll... hmm
[10:56]	Torley Linden:	Benjamin: We can't assign back to the reporter on PJIRA, but we can leave a note asking them for an improved patch.
[10:56]	Professor Bury:	g-morning
[10:56]	Iridium Linden:	How shall we mark this?
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	let's leave it open for now and Resolve as Needs More Info
[10:57]	Torley Linden:	I'd mark it as "Won't Fix" but make a note it's open to future consideration with a better patch.
[10:57]	Dzonatas Sol:	k k
[10:57]	Torley Linden:	Oh, even better, Ben.
[10:57]	Squirrel Wood:	makes sense ^^
[10:57]	Torley Linden:	Scratch what I said.
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	cool
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	ok let's grab a high-vote one from the next list before wrapping up
[10:58]	Daedalus Young:	539?
[10:58]	Benjamin Linden:	how about https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-539
[10:58]	Benjamin Linden:	beat me to it Daedalus :-)
[10:58]	Torley Linden:	Hehe
[10:58]	Benjamin Linden:	Viewer not saving Debug menu settings.
[10:58]	Daedalus Young:	heh ah yes
[10:58]	Torley Linden:	Ah hehe, I feel strongly about this one.
[10:58]	Very Susanti:	yeah extend that bug to include client menu setting too
[10:59]	Daedalus Young:	ah, like Quiet Snapshots
[10:59]	Torley Linden:	Yes -- very good example, Daedalus, and Disable Camera Constraints for our builders.
[10:59]	Professor Bury:	pardon me but have you addressed the issue of Lindens not being able to be perchased?
[10:59]	Benja Kepler:	No, I'd want debug settings to go away on a relog
[10:59]	Mosley Jewell:	for or against, Torley? :)
[10:59]	Squirrel Wood:	camera constrainzs are very... constraining at times, yep.
[10:59]	Evy Gardenvale:	so do i
[10:59]	Torley Linden:	There are two sides to this, one being -- new Residents who inadvertently set something... and would get confused if some of those persisted.
[10:59]	Dirk Talamasca:	I agree with your comment that this may cause some degree of torment for less exoerienced users though
[10:59]	Kitty Barnett:	isn't that what overrides.xml is for?
[10:59]	Evy Gardenvale:	except disable camera constraints :)
[10:59]	Torley Linden:	Then, there are more veteran Residents, who understand what they're doing better, and want settings to stick.
[10:59]	Mosley Jewell:	less experienced users shouldn't be in the debug menus anyway
[10:59]	Dzonatas Sol:	I don't think we want the viewer to save debug menu settings... mark won't fix
[11:00]	Saijanai Kuhn:	check box select?
[11:00]	Benja Kepler:	yes, when trying debug settings and strange things happen
[11:00]	Ima Mechanique:	like that one
[11:00]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	preferance toggle
[11:00]	Squirrel Wood:	I would suggest an option in the preferences dialog to "save debug menu settings"
[11:00]	Dimitrio Lewis:	It's quite common for people to accidentally enable Show Updates, which does persist
[11:00]	Evy Gardenvale:	nice one squirrel
[11:00]	Mosley Jewell:	that'd work, Squirrel
[11:00]	Torley Linden:	This issue actually appears to be a dupe of another on the Issue Tracker too -- I'll search for those.
[11:00]	Ima Mechanique:	and a Reset to defaults
[11:00]	Benjamin Linden:	the problem with this if the debug menu goes away, should the viewer still honor those settings?
[11:00]	Torley Linden:	Dimitrio: Ah yes, the BLUE TRIANGLES ATTACKING ME problem.
[11:00]	Torley Linden:	And BTW -- it's currently called the Client menu, for anyone who's confused.
[11:00]	Mosley Jewell:	although I might suggest the option to save would be in the debug menus, not in the regular preferences UI
[11:00]	Ima Mechanique:	Ben, I'd say no
[11:00]	Benja Kepler:	as long as 'save debug menu settings' wasn't turned on by default and affected everyone - like the llOwnerSay colour change!
[11:01]	Very Susanti:	is there anyway to add a vote against feature?? seems that would be useful in a case like this one. I am for the issue and voting on it, but people who don't want it fixed have no correspoding action they can take.
[11:01]	Mosley Jewell:	"regular users" shouldn't even know that the debug menus exist
[11:01]	Dirk Talamasca:	Unfortunately because of lag and other issues, Mentors are often required to direct new users to the debug menu immediately so they can dress and fix their appearance
[11:01]	Dzonatas Sol:	Benjamin, the debug menu is more for testing, it doesn't actually set everything correctly.
[11:01]	Daedalus Young:	some of the rendering options also crashed my viewer in the past, wouldn't be nice if that'd be on login
[11:01]	Torley Linden:	There's a connected bug here -- shortcuts can activate Client menu items even when it's not visible, they shouldn't be able to.
[11:01]	Kitty Barnett:	they didn't used to
[11:01]	Torley Linden:	(I earlier reported that one and talked about it with Ben.)
[11:01]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm leaning toward agreeing with Dzonatas on this
[11:01]	Daedalus Young:	I've had that happening when once my cat jumped on the keyboard
[11:02]	Benja Kepler:	in this meeting I have nearly all rendering off - and would like to 'recover' at relog
[11:02]	Dimitrio Lewis:	I don't think commonly used features like rebaking should be in debug if mentors are pointing people there
[11:02]	Benjamin Linden:	until we figure out a better mechanism for surfacing these options I'm not sure we should leave them on
[11:02]	Torley Linden:	Also keep in mind some of the Client menu workarounds will eventually be normal functionality...
[11:02]	Mosley Jewell:	agreed Dimitrio
[11:02]	Evy Gardenvale:	good one benja
[11:02]	Torley Linden:	For example, hiding the horizon gap (Ctrl-Alt-Shift-8) is deprecated with WindLight.
[11:02]	Iridium Linden:	yes, yes.
[11:03]	Iridium Linden:	Good point, Torley.
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	Dmitrio makes a great point that we should move some of these things out of the debug menus
[11:03]	Squirrel Wood:	that's why I'd suggest an option either in prefs or in that menu to "manually" save the current settings and mayhaps another to "load" them
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	but that's a larger project to restructure the menus
[11:03]	Very Susanti:	anyway importing an issue isn't a guarantee it will be fixed
[11:03]	Torley Linden:	Yeah -- who here remembers when Force Sun was moved out of Client menu?
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	that's true Very
[11:03]	Torley Linden:	That was a very popular feature, and then Richard put it in the World menu. :)
[11:03]	Ima Mechanique:	hehe, I do Torley
[11:03]	Kevin Susenko:	I organized the agenda by number of votes for oyu
[11:03]	Kevin Susenko:	*you
[11:03]	Spikez Stine:	Same here.
[11:04]	Spikez Stine:	I still remember.
[11:04]	Iridium Linden:	Thanks, Kevin!
[11:04]	Spikez Stine:	lol
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	let's add a note to this one about possibly making this an option in Preferences and import it
[11:04]	Ima Mechanique:	I can remember when you weren't a Linden, lol
[11:04]	Squirrel Wood:	like, give people an option to save/recall settings with just one click?
[11:04]	Kevin Susenko:	np
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	Wow, fast, thanks Kevin! Great stuff!
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Kevin!
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	Benjamin: OK, I'll add that note...
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	you rock
[11:04]	Professor Bury:	Linden dollars?
[11:04]	Professor Bury:	can't buy
[11:04]	Iridium Linden:	Done
[11:04]	Benja Kepler:	ok
[11:04]	Benja Kepler:	thx
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	Ok folks we're out of time. Thanks so much for your help today!
[11:05]	Daedalus Young:	one thing though: High-res Snapshots in the Client menu used to switch back each login, now it does persist
[11:05]	Dirk Talamasca:	Thanks Benjamin.. Go fix em all!
[11:05]	Professor Bury:	meeting ending and still no moneyfor a premium member
[11:05]	Squirrel Wood:	Thanks for taking the time to listen to our opinions ^^
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	We made great progress -- 11 issues!
[11:05]	Torley Linden:	Great first round!
[11:05]	Torley Linden:	And good to see you all here.
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	Professor, this is a meeting to discuss UI issues. please see the agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
[11:05]	Kevin Susenko:	For future reference, just copy/paste the wiki code for the issues into Word and go to Sort > Sort by: Field 3 / Type: Number / Descending. And that'll put them in order for you
[11:05]	Very Susanti:	yeah not bad
[11:06]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for the tip Kevin
[11:06]	Iridium Linden:	I'll post this transcript very shortly.
[11:06]	Professor Bury:	well when money is the issue and no one fixes you take drastic measure sir
[11:06]	Professor Bury:	thank u for ur time
[11:06]	Dzonatas Sol:	Thank You Everybody for being here! Woot!
[11:06]	LifeFactory Writer:	/Could someone please tell me where I may go to ask my qustions re: tranlsation capacity?
[11:06]	Benjamin Linden:	We'll continue having open UI design discussion at my Thursday office hour at 3pm
[11:06]	Torley Linden:	Professor, please contact our Support Team, http://support.secondlife.com .
[11:06]	Saijanai Kuhn:	remember everyone: this issue needs your support because its not obvious that it is an issue: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-153
[11:07]	Torley Linden:	Saijanai: Your continued campaigning for your issues is infectious -- I'll also ask Rob Linden to take a look at that, as he organizes the JIRA hierarchy.
[11:07]	Saijanai Kuhn:	needs more votes because being #3 on the main categor and #1 on the sub category isn't a flag that it is important
[11:07]	Torley Linden:	Remember votes do count but we take many things into consideration -- a holistic approach, with you to help us.
[11:08]	Benjamin Linden:	bye everyone, thanks again! see you Thursday!
[11:08]	Baris Ozsvar:	is there any Turkish guy here ?
[11:08]	Ima Mechanique:	Saijanai, you got my vote
[11:08]	Spikez Stine:	Thanks for helping all of us, Benjamin and Torley! You guys were awesome today. ^_^
[11:08]	Torley Linden:	Thanks again for coming to Ben's UI Triage and nice to see you all... take care until next time. :D
[11:08]	Torley Linden:	*smiles*
[11:08]	Saijanai Kuhn:	remember guys, you exist to get us to continue to play, not the other way around
[11:08]	Dimitrio Lewis:	Take care Benjamin :)
[11:08]	Very Susanti:	yeah that is that dartboard at Linden Headquarters too
[11:08]	Squirrel Wood:	Awesome performance ^^