User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Jul 12

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[15:01]	Wyn Galbraith:	Greetings Benjamin, most popular.
[15:01]	Benjamin Linden:	hey guys!
[15:02]	Wyn Galbraith is still without headset.
[15:02]	Wyn Galbraith:	I can hear you though.
[15:02]	Squirrel Wood:	Meow ^^
[15:02]	Benjamin Linden:	ok :-)
[15:02]	Wyn Galbraith's sim has voice now too.
[15:02]	Benjamin Linden:	more intimate crowd today
[15:02]	Benjamin Linden:	that was fun on Tuesday
[15:02]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Benja, welcome back
[15:02]	Benja Kepler:	hi Ben
[15:02]	Wyn Galbraith:	I couldn't get in.
[15:02]	Squirrel Wood:	Voice is useless to "deaf" players :p
[15:03]	Wyn Galbraith:	Would only allow 40 in.
[15:03]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm going to continue doing office hours in text
[15:03]	Benjamin Linden:	oh did we cap out?
[15:03]	Squirrel Wood:	yep. 40 players on tuesday
[15:03]	Wyn Galbraith:	Yes, that's why I wasn't there.
[15:03]	Benjamin Linden:	ah yes someone passed on a message about you not being able to get in Wyn
[15:03]	Wyn Galbraith kept hitting the at capacity wall.
[15:03]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry about that
[15:04]	Wyn Galbraith:	Must have been my friend Squirrel ;)
[15:04]	Benjamin Linden:	if we continue getting large crowds I'll need to see about increasing the cap on this parcel
[15:04]	Wyn Galbraith:	That's ok, just know next time hold it in an empty sim
[15:04]	Wyn Galbraith:	Just build an empty space sim, nothing in it. ;)
[15:05]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm thinking there will be fewer people at the next one, without a blog post driving traffic
[15:05]	Wyn Galbraith has always wondered what that would be like.
[15:05]	Benjamin Linden:	did anything come up at the triage meeting that was interesting or alarming to you
[15:05]	Benjamin Linden:	something we should follow up on?
[15:05]	Wyn Galbraith:	I don't know, was the log posted?
[15:05]	Wyn Galbraith has been slacking.
[15:06]	Benja Kepler:	seemed to be quite a heated meeting before and after
[15:06]	Wyn Galbraith:	Really, what about?
[15:06]	Squirrel Wood:	Humm.
[15:06]	Wyn Galbraith:	Don't tell me... was a certain someone we all know and love here?
[15:06]	Benjamin Linden:	yes I posted the chat transcript
[15:06]	Squirrel Wood:	Porky? Nope
[15:06]	Benja Kepler:	I think a number of residents were using it as a gripe - fest
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	and the meeting notes
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	let me grab the links
[15:07]	Wyn Galbraith:	Oh, good. What's the link... thanks ;)
[15:07]	Squirrel Wood:	People always whine when they get a chance to do it ^^
[15:07]	Wyn Galbraith:	Residents do that a lot, use it as a gripe fest, though I've been called a whiner.
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	notes:
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/2007-07-10
[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	transcript:
[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Benjamin_Linden/Office_Hours/2007_Jul_10
[15:08]	Benja Kepler:	but my fave quote, not published, after the meeting was 'you're being borderline abusive'.....
[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	lol
[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	Benja you had the best, most encouraging quote, which I really appreciated.
[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	I sent it around internally :-)
[15:08]	Benja Kepler:	ah
[15:09]	Wyn Galbraith:	Better be careful, you'll end up being part of the Fangirlz and Fanboyz.
[15:09]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, apparently there was a minor confrontation after I left
[15:09]	Benjamin Linden:	between one of the more agitated attendees and another linden
[15:09]	Wyn Galbraith:	Uhoh.
[15:09]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Dzonatas
[15:10]	Dzonatas Sol:	Hi!
[15:10]	Wyn Galbraith is always reminded of the Princess of Mars' name when she sees Dzonatas Sol.
[15:10]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Dirk!
[15:11]	Dzonatas Sol:	Mars... i'll have to look that up
[15:11]	Dirk Talamasca:	Hey there Benjamin!
[15:11]	Benjamin Linden:	hey Webgoddess
[15:11]	Webgoddess Mars:	Hi Benjamin :)
[15:11]	Wyn Galbraith:	Oh my gosh, there is the Goddess of Mars.
[15:11]	Webgoddess Mars:	did I land on anyone?
[15:11]	Benjamin Linden:	Has everyone had a chance to download the latest First Look?
[15:11]	Dirk Talamasca:	: )
[15:11]	Webgoddess Mars:	Hi Wyn :)
[15:11]	Wyn Galbraith just mentioned the Princess of Mars, Dejah Thoris.
[15:11]	Webgoddess Mars:	*grins*
[15:11]	Dzonatas Sol doesn't use voice
[15:11]	Dirk Talamasca:	BRB It was crashing the piss outta me. I will load it up
[15:12]	Webgoddess Mars:	I did...but kept crashing
[15:12]	Wyn Galbraith isn't using voice either though it is on in this viewer.
[15:12]	Webgoddess Mars:	so had too delete it
[15:12]	Wyn Galbraith:	I can hear, just can'st speak.
[15:13]	Benja Kepler:	yes, I just downloaded it
[15:13]	Wyn Galbraith:	I have been getting vaporizing crashes.
[15:13]	Benjamin Linden:	we just posted an update today
[15:13]	Wyn Galbraith:	Just poofs gone.
[15:13]	Benjamin Linden:	which should fix the crashing
[15:14]	Benjamin Linden:	I had the same problem Wyn
[15:14]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Very!
[15:14]	Wyn Galbraith downloaded the new one.
[15:14]	Benjamin Linden:	hey Dale
[15:14]	Very Susanti:	Hiya
[15:14]	Webgoddess Mars:	/I had to delete and re-install SL...to get this last update to install
[15:14]	Wyn Galbraith:	1.18.0(126) is the viewer I'm on.
[15:14]	Benja Kepler:	wow! I just spotted the Participants List - that's great
[15:14]	Very Susanti:	haha um this wasn't where I tried to sit
[15:14]	Webgoddess Mars:	rofl
[15:14]	Benja Kepler:	very useful for discussions like this
[15:14]	Dirk's Dance Bracelet: OWENIMATIONS DUO DANCER v3.4 -- type /99help for instructions
[15:14]	Conover's SuperSmooth Flight-Helper 3.0a whispers: Max-Velocity now set to 185 M/s.
[15:14]	Conover's SuperSmooth Flight-Helper 3.0a whispers: Commands: /flyhelp to get documentation.
[15:14]	Webgoddess Mars:	cue Digit outfit Very
[15:15]	Benjamin Linden:	there's a spot next to me
[15:15]	Webgoddess Mars:	/cute
[15:15]	Webgoddess Mars:	wb Dirk
[15:15]	Very Susanti:	thanks
[15:15]	Webgoddess Mars:	/welcome
[15:15]	Benjamin Linden:	Very, that's the most current version
[15:15]	Very Susanti:	current version?
[15:16]	Benja Kepler:	1.18.0 (126) Jul 12 2007 10:14:44 (Second Life Voice First Look)
[15:16]	Dirk Talamasca:	Cool
[15:16]	Wyn Galbraith:	That's the one.
[15:16]	Wyn Galbraith:	Goes poof every now and then.
[15:16]	Benjamin Linden:	is it still crashing for you?
[15:16]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm that's not good
[15:16]	Very Susanti:	oh yeah I crashed durring Robs meeting and there was a new mandatory update
[15:16]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[15:16]	Wyn Galbraith:	Wait, you know, I just downloaded it so maybe this one hasn't.
[15:16]	Very Susanti:	didn't gget it yet
[15:16]	Dirk Talamasca:	That needs to be on the Blog so if we are using the reg viewer because FL is suckin hard we can know there was an update
[15:16]	Webgoddess Mars:	Hi Rex
[15:17]	Very Susanti:	the last one was terrible
[15:17]	Benja Kepler:	is it supposed to show scripted attachments too?
[15:17]	Wyn Galbraith:	/waves to the usual suspects.
[15:17]	Rex Cronon:	people talking here about crashing? i crashed yesterday 4 times in a row. I had to reinstall the viewer
[15:17]	Very Susanti:	I mean the interface was much improved, but damn I crashed every ten min
[15:17]	Very Susanti:	and predictablt 5 min after each tp
[15:18]	Wyn Galbraith:	This morning and last night. About an hour ago it gave me a new download, so trying it.
[15:18]	Wyn Galbraith:	I wasn't TP'ng
[15:18]	Benjamin Linden:	yeah, the new download is supposed to fix the crashing bug
[15:18]	Very Susanti:	yeah I will try it later, I am on the non voice client now
[15:18]	Wyn Galbraith:	Just moved the camera and gone.
[15:18]	Very Susanti:	haha
[15:19]	Wyn Galbraith really hears voices now.
[15:19]	Webgoddess Mars:	rofl
[15:19]	Very Susanti:	is there an agenda or is this a open discussion?
[15:19]	Benjamin Linden:	glad to hear folks are enjoying the UI improvements
[15:19]	Dale Glass:	still no voice on Linux
[15:19]	Benjamin Linden:	this is open discussion
[15:19]	Very Susanti:	I hear them all the time in my head ... telling me to do things
[15:20]	Wyn Galbraith:	Ah I missed meeting Iridium.
[15:20]	Benjamin Linden:	she'll be back on Tuesday Wyn
[15:20]	Benja Kepler:	Can I ask about the timescale for MONO? (I've seen Babbage Twittering about MONO testing...)
[15:20]	Wyn Galbraith just ignores the voices, they're usually wrong.
[15:20]	Benjamin Linden:	Iridium is awesome
[15:20]	Wyn Galbraith:	Iridium office is awesome :D
[15:20]	Very Susanti:	there was a whole bunch of noise about new land management tools, where are we on that? and what are we likely to see?
[15:20]	Dirk Talamasca:	Texture viewr was changed a few months ago.. Textures are no longer scaleable proportionally.. Nor are you able to save them to hard drive and view them proportionally because of this
[15:20]	Benjamin Linden:	interesting you should mention Mono, I just saw an update about that
[15:20]	Benjamin Linden:	let me see if I can find it
[15:20]	Dzonatas Sol:	Benja, no release on Mono until Silverlight
[15:21]	Wyn Galbraith:	Is that like moonlight?
[15:21]	Benja Kepler:	which is what? Dzonatas?
[15:21]	Dzonatas Sol:	next version of it, yes
[15:21]	Dzonatas Sol:	security for Mono
[15:22]	Benjamin Linden:	this update doesn't mention anything about timelines
[15:22]	Very Susanti:	I am very excited about mono as a scripting VM, but it is hard to get too excited about each new snippet
[15:22]	Benjamin Linden:	I'll try to find out more and let you know
[15:22]	Benja Kepler:	ok, thx
[15:22]	Very Susanti:	similarly for physics engine update
[15:22]	Very Susanti:	s
[15:22]	Benjamin Linden:	Very, what did you hear about land management tools?
[15:22]	Benjamin Linden:	is this on the web or in the viewer?
[15:23]	Very Susanti:	I don't remember that is why I am asking you
[15:23]	Dirk Talamasca:	That there were going to be new tools that let is manage estates more effetively with regard to governance, adult content etc
[15:23]	Very Susanti:	I expect they will be in the viewer
[15:23]	Wyn Galbraith:	I think those will roll out when the ID verification rolls out.
[15:23]	Very Susanti:	thank you Dirk
[15:24]	Benjamin Linden:	I haven't been involved in those discussions if indeed that work is happening, so I'm not sure where it stands. I'll hunt around and find out
[15:24]	Very Susanti:	I have just been trying to combat an attack that is pretty unstoppable by usual means
[15:24]	Wyn Galbraith would rather have software features delivered late and working then early and only half0baked.
[15:24]	Dirk Talamasca:	I can't wait for verification. Everyone refuses to believe I am 19
[15:24]	Webgoddess Mars:	rofl
[15:24]	Dirk Talamasca:	LOL
[15:25]	Webgoddess Mars:	/mentally is one thing Dirk
[15:25]	Wyn Galbraith believes you Dirk :)
[15:25]	Benjamin Linden:	lol @ Dirk
[15:25]	Benjamin Linden:	I agree with you Wyn
[15:25]	Benjamin Linden:	but we do also want to push things out quickly so we can get feedback and improve quickly
[15:25]	Benjamin Linden:	it's a tricky balance
[15:25]	Dirk Talamasca:	How about the texture vier suckin all over the place so we cannot save and modify textures that we receive inworld properly?
[15:25]	Wyn Galbraith:	Well, it's only logical, what use are the tools if the flags aren't in place?
[15:26]	Dirk Talamasca:	viewer*
[15:26]	Very Susanti:	yes I am actually a red tailed squirrel of excellent intellegence, I will make newsweek once ID verification is here
[15:26]	Dzonatas Sol:	Are their parts of the grid that will have new features rolled out, or has that even been established yet?
[15:26]	Dzonatas Sol:	(being het-grid like)
[15:27]	Wyn Galbraith:	LOL @ Very
[15:27]	Very Susanti:	het grid sounds great, but it doesn't really by iteslf mean anything. I mean currently there is no hetero in the hetero grid
[15:27]	Benjamin Linden:	Dirk, can you clarify what you mean about the texture viewer?
[15:27]	Wyn Galbraith takes a moment to notice the orange sky.
[15:28]	Benjamin Linden:	Dzonatas, what do you mean by "new grid features"?
[15:28]	Dzonatas Sol:	from the dia de la libercion... it was mentioned beta viewers being on Agni
[15:29]	Dirk Talamasca:	Yes if you receive a texture OR of you upload a texture and send it to others and they open that texture and it is not exactly 256x256 or 512x512 or 1024x1024 you cannot scale the texture to get a proper look at it in the right proportions
[15:29]	Benjamin Linden:	right, Dzonatas, message liberation is a first step toward het grid
[15:29]	Dirk Talamasca:	Likewise when you save it to your hard drive it also saves in these squashed proportions
[15:29]	Benjamin Linden:	but we're not all the way there yet
[15:29]	Benjamin Linden:	ah yes, Dirk, this is an issue I'm aware of
[15:29]	Very Susanti:	oh you want the texture previewer to be able to scale
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	actually that behavior changed recently
[15:30]	Dzonatas Sol:	ah... missed that point in all the Lindens jumping in joy
[15:30]	Dirk Talamasca:	Yeah itscaled just fine for 3 years
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	because you used to be able to arbitrarily resize the texture
[15:30]	Very Susanti:	right now it is always showing textures in a square aspect ratio?
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	now it maintains the aspect ratio
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	it's actually not always square Very
[15:30]	Very Susanti:	yes squar is the wrong term
[15:30]	Squirrel Wood:	another thing with textures... when you upload a 1023x511 "texture"/picture it gets sized down to 512x256 which is quite annoying
[15:30]	Dirk Talamasca:	No, it doesn't.. It FORCES it into an aspect ratio
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	it jumps to the nearest power-of-two dimension
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	this is a limitation of OpenGL
[15:31]	Dirk Talamasca:	And the wrong aspect ratio at that
[15:31]	Benjamin Linden:	which forces images to be in powers-of-two (2, 4, 8, 16.. etc)
[15:31]	Benjamin Linden:	believe me, it's very frustrating as a designer
[15:31]	Very Susanti:	that is something you should fix before uploading, also there are plent of in world texture previewer huds that can be used instead to view your textures
[15:31]	Dirk Talamasca:	Why did iyt work so well the three years prior?
[15:32]	Rex Cronon:	why does that have to apply to sculpt images?
[15:32]	Dale Glass:	problem is that fixing it probably means rescaling
[15:32]	Dale Glass:	and that's probably best done in your editor
[15:32]	Webgoddess Mars:	/will SL be doing anythng accomodate more then say 45,000 online at a time..anywhere in the near furture?
[15:32]	Very Susanti:	I wish the previewer could scale and repeat too
[15:33]	Very Susanti:	and rotate too why not
[15:33]	Dirk Talamasca:	Yes I know how to scale my textures and that is the problem.. I mean we are encouraged to do that because it decreases download times.. BUT say I want to pass that texture to you because you wish to mod it in your editor
[15:33]	Very Susanti:	I mean it isn't like that functionality is not already in SL
[15:33]	Dirk Talamasca:	You get a squashed image to save that you can't do a thing with
[15:34]	Very Susanti:	though honestly the texture previewer is not really a high priority thing for me i think
[15:34]	Benjamin Linden:	we're working on some solutions for providing arbritrarily sized textures for the UI graphics but there's nothing planned for in-world textures
[15:34]	Benjamin Linden:	but we do need to get the previewer to work better
[15:34]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm thinking maybe a checkbox that says "maintain aspect ratio"
[15:34]	Benjamin Linden:	and also a warning at upload that it's going to resize the graphic
[15:34]	Very Susanti:	like in photoshop
[15:35]	Benjamin Linden:	Webgoddess, there are folks working on scalability
[15:35]	Rex Cronon:	are there planed and changes ot the Object tab in the build window?
[15:35]	Benjamin Linden:	to increase the number of people that can login
[15:35]	Webgoddess Mars:	/oh good..and hopefully less lagg with so many on as well
[15:35]	Very Susanti:	I mean the point is it is just a previewer, you can't use it to mod the texture so it isn't something I use that much
[15:35]	Squirrel Wood:	One thing that may be udderly amazing to work with would be procedural textures. ^^
[15:35]	Very Susanti:	you can always drag it on to a prim to examine it
[15:35]	Dirk Talamasca:	Actually it doesn't resize the graphic internally. You can upload a HUGE texture and of course it will save as 1024 x 1024 but you can open it up and see that is not true
[15:36]	Benjamin Linden:	Rex, the build tools are overdue for an overhaul
[15:36]	Benjamin Linden:	but I don't think we'll have the bandwidth to do that anytime soon
[15:36]	Webgoddess Mars:	/well...the sandman calls..was nice meeting everyone :)
[15:36]	Dirk Talamasca:	Yes but if I am in a business meeting and someone sends me a texture, tossing a prim onto the table to resize it isn't really very polite, is it?
[15:36]	Rex Cronon:	there needs to be a way to change a sculpt type, using a UI and not having to use scripts to do that
[15:37]	Very Susanti:	also the colors are always incorrect when you use the texture previewer, I mean i have never found it to be too usefull
[15:37]	Dirk Talamasca:	Night Webby :D
[15:37]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for coming Webgoddess!
[15:37]	Rex Cronon:	nice meeting u webg...
[15:37]	Wyn Galbraith:	Sleep sweet.
[15:37]	Very Susanti:	the best texture previewer is a box
[15:37]	Benjamin Linden:	Rex, what do you mean about sculpties?
[15:38]	Squirrel Wood:	sculpt type. sphere / torus / ...
[15:38]	Very Susanti:	is that available already?
[15:38]	Rex Cronon:	right now the only way to change a sculpt type is by using a script
[15:38]	Squirrel Wood:	via script.. yes.
[15:38]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, we do need to do some more work on the sculpties UI
[15:38]	Very Susanti:	kewl I will have to test it, and it changes the toplology?
[15:39]	Wyn Galbraith wants to cut them.
[15:39]	Rex Cronon:	chouldn't there be a dropdown box that allows u to change the type, inside the object tab of the building window?
[15:39]	Benjamin Linden:	I didn't actually realize you could change the sculpt type
[15:39]	Very Susanti:	well on the issue of sculpties, we need a way to import small (64x64) textures with no loss of detail too
[15:39]	Benjamin Linden:	cut sculpties, Wyn?
[15:39]	Dzonatas Sol:	Very, that is being worked on... bandwidth issues
[15:39]	Wyn Galbraith nods and grins, "Yep, sometimes I think, this one would be great if I could cut it in half.
[15:40]	Rex Cronon:	u can have an apple with a cut in it:)
[15:40]	Dirk Talamasca:	We are devious Benjamin. We knew you guys wouldn't realize we could do that and that is why we did it
[15:40]	Very Susanti:	I wonder if you could hack the open source client to do it
[15:40]	Wyn Galbraith hrms.
[15:40]	Very Susanti:	I bet the conversion is in the client
[15:40]	Benjamin Linden:	haha I had no idea!
[15:40]	Benjamin Linden:	that should definitely be exposed in the UI
[15:40]	Benjamin Linden:	I need to sync up with Qarl on this
[15:41]	Dirk Talamasca:	We can drop an e-mail to Nicholaz
[15:41]	Benjamin Linden:	I helped him with the initial release but he's working on imrovements
[15:41]	Dzonatas Sol:	Very, it is possible now, a current project to enabled it was actually preempted
[15:41]	Very Susanti:	ah ok
[15:41]	Rex Cronon:	u see that is way these meetings are usefull, things can be brought to your attention:)
[15:41]	Rex Cronon:	why*
[15:41]	Very Susanti:	that is what I thought, I have been looking through the image package this week
[15:42]	Squirrel Wood:	It just may be the case that other sculpt types are still in testing and not officially supported which would explain the "missing" options in the UI
[15:42]	Dzonatas Sol:	I have a patch for the in-world .OBJ importer, but consider it is best to hold off on it until bandwidth issues are not an issue
[15:42]	Wyn Galbraith Ahs.
[15:42]	Very Susanti:	I am not really sure why this would cause a bandwitdh concern, I mean a 64x64 bit texture vs. the the ones you actually use for texturing 512x512 say
[15:42]	Rex Cronon:	i tried them some of the types and they work
[15:43]	Benja Kepler:	and what happened to the sculpt (image) textures in the Library? what was there in Beta never made it into Main
[15:43]	Dzonatas Sol:	Very, it comes down to cost on the sim-side and what kind of traffic really should be on the sim-network
[15:44]	Very Susanti:	are sculpt textures served differently from shading textures?
[15:44]	Benja Kepler:	(VWR-883)
[15:44]	Dzonatas Sol:	I've been working on this: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLSquid_Proxy ... to help with the bandwidth issues
[15:44]	Wyn Galbraith believes they're still there.
[15:44]	Wyn Galbraith:	I've used them.
[15:45]	Dirk Talamasca:	Any plan to separate the Chat History (Near Me) window out so you do not have to have this chatterbox in your face at all times, totally negating the point of being immersed in a 3D environment?
[15:45]	Benja Kepler:	oops! Wyn: you're right
[15:45]	Benjamin Linden:	Dirk, you can tear out the Near Me tab today
[15:45]	Dzonatas Sol:	all assets information... textures ,prims, sculpties, comes from the same place right now
[15:45]	Wyn Galbraith:	They're in LIbrary>Textures>Sculpt Textures... oh my new ones!
[15:45]	Benjamin Linden:	there is a small button in the upper right or the window
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden:	that pops the window out
[15:46]	Benja Kepler:	they sneaked in on June 14....
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden:	my library's not loading :-(
[15:46]	Very Susanti:	yeah so i don't see the bandwidth argument
[15:46]	Squirrel Wood:	Bandwidth issues... I do have them. SL is not taking advantage of the full 16 mbit I have available :(
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden:	ah here we go
[15:46]	Dirk Talamasca:	Ohh that is so much better
[15:46]	Can't reposition -- permission denied
[15:47]	Dirk Talamasca:	How much do I owe ya Benjamin?
[15:47]	Dirk Talamasca:	LOL
[15:47]	Very Susanti:	and sculpt textures are not being consumed by the SIM for physics or collision calculation so i think bandwidth is not really a bigger issue for scults than non sculpt prims, morverover scults have only one face
[15:47]	Dzonatas Sol:	now if there was a nice UI to squid... =)
[15:48]	Benjamin Linden:	haha, you weren't the only one Dirk
[15:48]	Benjamin Linden:	*lots* of people asked for that
[15:48]	Benjamin Linden:	now if you all just paid me a quarter...
[15:48]	Benjamin Linden:	:-)
[15:48]	Rex Cronon:	oh, and how can u apply a texture to both sides of a scult? anybody knows?
[15:48]	Very Susanti:	though sculpts will probably introduce more unique textures in the system as texturing them is more complex that simple geometric prims
[15:48]	Wyn Galbraith:	You can't, you only get one side.
[15:49]	Squirrel Wood:	Sculpties by definition have only one face. and thus, one texture.
[15:49]	Very Susanti:	and 3D painted textures will not be reusable between sculpts
[15:49]	Rex Cronon:	a plane has 2 sides
[15:50]	Wyn Galbraith:	It's like infinity, it wraps back on itself.
[15:50]	Wyn Galbraith:	One side.
[15:50]	Squirrel Wood:	A plane is not a sculpty
[15:50]	Wyn Galbraith:	Before the rez sculpties look like spheres.
[15:50]	Rex Cronon:	there is a sculpt type for a plane
[15:51]	Benjamin Linden:	Wyn is right about sculpties
[15:51]	Benjamin Linden:	it's more like a sphere
[15:51]	Squirrel Wood:	Moebius band
[15:51]	Wyn Galbraith:	If you sculpt a box it becomes a sphere.
[15:51]	Dirk Talamasca:	Anything new on animated sculpties sometimes bubbling or not working?
[15:51]	Rex Cronon:	look at what i have in my right hand. plane sculpt:)
[15:52]	Wyn Galbraith:	A sphere with no hollow center too.
[15:52]	Wyn Galbraith means no ability to hollow.
[15:52]	Very Susanti:	bubling? to you mean sculpt texture cache misses and it reverting back to a sphere?
[15:52]	Dirk Talamasca:	Yes and sometimes animation stops altogether
[15:53]	Wyn Galbraith:	I think it loads the prim first and then the texture, so same with the map texture for sculpts.
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	Rex, I missed it, can I see again?
[15:53]	Wyn Galbraith:	Makes sense the first sculpt was an apple ;)
[15:53]	Very Susanti:	it is still there, but it vanishes from a certain angle
[15:53]	Squirrel Wood:	That's SL. Loading textures when it wants. and not when YOU want ^^
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	interesting
[15:54]	Dirk Talamasca:	Hi Jurin!
[15:54]	Jurin Juran:	hi dirk
[15:54]	Wyn Galbraith:	Maybe should load textures first and then the objects
[15:54]	Very Susanti:	it probablby has more than one face, but you can't upload that texture yet cause they are not officially supported
[15:55]	Squirrel Wood:	How many faces does your skin have?
[15:55]	Very Susanti:	that is the price you pay for hacking ato an unsupported future feature
[15:55]	Very Susanti:	just one
[15:55]	Wyn Galbraith:	Inside and outside.
[15:55]	Wyn Galbraith:	Oh you mean SL skin?
[15:55]	Squirrel Wood:	rl skin ^^
[15:55]	Wyn Galbraith:	Inside and out.
[15:55]	Rex Cronon:	plane type is a supported feature
[15:55]	Dzonatas Sol:	sculpties are pretty extensible right now with just the viewer and no server mods
[15:56]	Very Susanti:	hmm I will need a volenteer for me to skin then i will examine the results and get back to you
[15:56]	Dzonatas Sol:	*viewer changes
[15:56]	Dirk Talamasca:	LOL
[15:56]	Benjamin Linden:	is there anything about this on the wiki?
[15:56]	Wyn Galbraith will pass volenterring for that, Very.
[15:56]	Very Susanti:	hehe
[15:56]	Wyn Galbraith:	*volenteering
[15:57]	Wyn Galbraith:	That's still not right. Cant spell today.
[15:57]	Rex Cronon:	about what benjamin
[15:57]	Dirk Talamasca:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-333
[15:57]	Benjamin Linden:	wow, cool horse Dirk
[15:57]	Dale Glass:	hm, that looks buggy
[15:57]	Benjamin Linden:	a little too big for this space :-)
[15:57]	Very Susanti:	the solution Dirk is to get a better graphics card
[15:57]	Dale Glass:	horse parts were turning into spheres
[15:57]	Wyn Galbraith:	See spheres.
[15:57]	Dzonatas Sol:	Qarl's office hours is where most of the info comes from
[15:57]	Very Susanti:	haha
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden:	yeah I saw the spheres too
[15:58]	Very Susanti:	no problem on my 768MB GLX
[15:58]	Squirrel Wood:	bubbling looks like to be either a timing problem or the client loading the next higher res version of the texture... cause those are loaded lowest res version first...
[15:58]	Wyn Galbraith:	It's like seeing grey people.
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden:	did Qarl talk about this at his office hours?
[15:58]	Very Susanti:	or GTX
[15:59]	Dzonatas Sol:	He talked about how the server already supports most of what is desired, but the viewer lacks the implementation at this time. Bandwidth concerns also slow progress.
[16:00]	Dzonatas Sol:	I think Qarl wants to narrow his pile. =)
[16:01]	Dirk Talamasca:	I want to narrow my pile too. This gaming and entertainment stuff is hard work
[16:01]	Dirk Talamasca:	LOL
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	lol
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	ok folks
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	we're out of time
[16:01]	Squirrel Wood:	aww
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	I'll follow up with Qarl on the sculpties questions
[16:02]	Very Susanti:	is it really badwidth or client side video texture cache misses? or the LOD system thrashing
[16:02]	Wyn Galbraith:	Aw.
[16:02]	Dirk Talamasca:	Tosses Nenjamin a quarter
[16:02]	Wyn Galbraith:	Already.
[16:02]	Squirrel Wood:	time sucks when you run out of it :(
[16:02]	Dirk Talamasca:	Benjamin too
[16:02]	Very Susanti:	cause I don't see it on my system
[16:02]	Benjamin Linden:	or you could ask him yourself at his office hours :-)
[16:02]	Wyn Galbraith:	At least with L$ there's no change to carry.
[16:02]	Dzonatas Sol:	thank you for your time Benjamin =)
[16:02]	Benja Kepler:	ok, thx
[16:02]	Dzonatas Sol:	thank you everybody being here
[16:02]	Wyn Galbraith:	Thanks Benjamin.
[16:02]	Dirk Talamasca:	Take care, Benjamin
[16:02]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for coming everybody!
[16:02]	Benjamin Linden:	take care!
[16:03]	Very Susanti:	bye thank yu
[16:03]	Wyn Galbraith:	Again again again again!
[16:03]	Rex Cronon:	bye benjamin