User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Jul 17
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Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:
| [10:10] | Iridium Linden: | Yay, Ben!! |
| [10:10] | Wyn Galbraith doesn't have a headset. | |
| [10:10] | Saijanai Kuhn: | however it is spelled... |
| [10:10] | Benjamin Linden: | hi folks |
| [10:10] | Benjamin Linden: | apologies for the delay, our network went down |
| [10:10] | Squirrel Wood: | Right now I see people speaking but hear not a single word. yet normal sounds work perfectly |
| [10:11] | Benjamin Linden: | ok let's get started |
| [10:11] | Benjamin Linden: | here's a link to the agenda |
| [10:11] | Benjamin Linden: | https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda |
| [10:11] | Squirrel Wood: | Second Life 1.18.0 (127) Jul 12 2007 17:01:36 (Second Life Voice First Look) is what I use |
| [10:11] | Wyn Galbraith just noticed an option on the chat history that says "show muted text" | |
| [10:11] | Stephany Linden: | Squirrel: And you have 127, w/ voice enabled, and audio output set to your headset? |
| [10:11] | Torley Linden: | Heya Ben! Glad you're here! =D |
| [10:11] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1761 |
| [10:11] | Wyn Galbraith: | Sounds like an oxymoron |
| [10:11] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 5 - Group Invite Suggestion--add 'view profile' to invite dialog box |
| [10:11] | Squirrel Wood: | like I said: I hear normal sounds. |
| [10:12] | Daedalus Young: | 1761 sounds useful to me |
| [10:12] | Dzonatas Sol tested VWR-1761... it works | |
| [10:12] | Torley Linden: | I like being able to view profiles (speaking generally)... sometimes it's too clunky... |
| [10:12] | Saijanai Kuhn: | Big no on the next one. Logging for voice |
| [10:12] | Squirrel Wood: | relogging real quick |
| [10:12] | Stephany Linden: | Squirell: and 127 w/ voice actively on? |
| [10:12] | Squirrel Wood: | Aye.# |
| [10:12] | Stephany Linden: | ok |
| [10:13] | Benjamin Linden: | sorry is everyone looking at VWR-1761? |
| [10:13] | Benja Kepler: | VWR-1761 has a patch, but only for EN-US. Will the patch for all the other languages be done first? |
| [10:13] | Stephany Linden: | yes |
| [10:13] | Iridium Linden: | Hiya, Stephany. |
| [10:13] | Iridium Linden: | :) |
| [10:13] | Wyn Galbraith is. | |
| [10:13] | Wyn Galbraith: | wb Squirrel. |
| [10:13] | Dzonatas Sol: | VWR-1761, good to import.. tested. |
| [10:13] | Benjamin Linden: | this sounds like a great idea |
| [10:14] | Torley Linden: | OK, good idea... |
| [10:14] | Kooky Jetaime: | Group info would be good too |
| [10:14] | Benjamin Linden: | I would like to suggest that when people submit patches with visual changes to the UI that they also include a screenshot of the change |
| [10:14] | Torley Linden: | Ben, that's a great idea, for people who have a hard time visualizing especially. |
| [10:14] | Iridium Linden: | So we've imported that one? |
| [10:14] | Wyn Galbraith: | Someone is generating some static. |
| [10:14] | Torley Linden: | It'd communicate those things at a glance. |
| [10:14] | Benjamin Linden: | this will make it much quicker to assess the change and decide if something needs to be tweaked |
| [10:14] | Benjamin Linden: | right Torley |
| [10:14] | Torley Linden: | Yes, I'll import this right now. |
| [10:14] | Feep Larsson: | That would be worth putting on the wiki... |
| [10:15] | Benjamin Linden: | I'll make a note to talk to Rob about this |
| [10:15] | Iridium Linden: | Yes, Feep. |
| [10:15] | Stephany Linden: | someone has a hot fizzy mic :) |
| [10:15] | Neuro Linden: | ah the joys of voice :) |
| [10:15] | Benjamin Linden: | I muted my sound :-) |
| [10:15] | Torley Linden: | Benjamin: Yeah, would be nice to put that clearly in the contributor info section. |
| [10:15] | Iridium Linden: | lol |
| [10:15] | Stephany Linden: | indeed |
| [10:15] | Torley Linden: | My sound is muted too. |
| [10:15] | Wyn Galbraith nods, "Staticy." | |
| [10:15] | Iridium Linden: | Mine too. |
| [10:15] | Benjamin Linden: | so let's go ahead and import this one |
| [10:15] | Stephany Linden: | benja? |
| [10:15] | Wyn Galbraith has no headset. | |
| [10:15] | Benja Kepler: | with just one language? |
| [10:15] | Benjamin Linden: | we'll circle back with the filer to get a screenshot if necessary |
| [10:16] | Torley Linden: | Benjamin: *imported*! |
| [10:16] | Torley Linden: | I can add a comment asking for a screenshot if you want? |
| [10:16] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1752 |
| [10:16] | Benjamin Linden: | Benja, we have a process for getting new strings localized |
| [10:16] | Feep Larsson: | I think we're going to have to import fixes in just one language, since most Open Sourcers don't know all the supported languages! |
| [10:16] | Dzonatas Sol: | I can upload a screenshot |
| [10:16] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 0 - Change Request: Change double click on object in inventory to wear (rather than properties) |
| [10:16] | Benjamin Linden: | this should kick that off |
| [10:16] | Torley Linden: | Great, thanks Dzonatas. |
| [10:16] | Torley Linden: | Teamwork. :) |
| [10:16] | Benja Kepler: | ok, just wondered |
| [10:16] | Dzonatas Sol me makes note | |
| [10:16] | Benjamin Linden: | Torley, commenting would be great. thanks! |
| [10:17] | Daedalus Young: | yes, sounds good, makes sense, you double-click an icon on your desktop to open the app too, not to change its properties |
| [10:17] | Squirrel Wood: | 1752 I'd like to see an option for that in the perfs so I can set it to do what I prefer |
| [10:17] | Dzonatas Sol: | it looks like a little i next to the ? over the parner |
| [10:17] | Benja Kepler: | (when voice was on BTW who was the Scotsman?) |
| [10:17] | Saijanai Kuhn: | hmmm. SL not registering plug and play USB headset restarting |
| [10:17] | Benjamin Linden: | I agree, this makes sense |
| [10:17] | Kitty Barnett: | I don't like that one at all :o unless you can tell when an attachment should be worn and when rezzed other than the attach point |
| [10:18] | Benjamin Linden: | although I thought it worked this way already |
| [10:18] | Torley Linden: | VWR-1752 may have some side effects... |
| [10:18] | Benjamin Linden: | hmm it seems to for me |
| [10:18] | Saijanai Kuhn: | the default should be as it is now. It is a clear violation of user interface principles to do somthing so drastic so easilty |
| [10:18] | Torley Linden: | I'm thinking that there are other inventory item types which double-click should behave similarly for... |
| [10:18] | Daedalus Young: | yes, not all objects you'd want attaching |
| [10:18] | Neuro Linden: | Saijanai: try disabling voice in preferences, clicking apply, then re-enabling voice |
| [10:18] | Squirrel Wood: | I'd like the option to choose what doubleclick does in the prefs ^^ |
| [10:18] | Torley Linden: | The catch with VWR-1752 might be that, it should only attach if it already has an attach point specified... remember the old "boxhead" debacle? |
| [10:18] | Daedalus Young agrees with Squirrel | |
| [10:19] | Dzonatas Sol: | 1752 is about making it a default to wear |
| [10:19] | Torley Linden: | People might double-click their houses and accidentally wear them... |
| [10:19] | Benjamin Linden: | oh this is for objects specifically |
| [10:19] | Kitty Barnett: | and landmarks |
| [10:19] | Benjamin Linden: | yeah, how would it know if it's clothes? |
| [10:19] | Iridium Linden wouldn't mind wearing her house, hehe. | |
| [10:19] | Neuro Linden: | torley: admit it, you've worn a condo lately |
| [10:19] | Torley Linden: | Kitty -- I wish that double-clicking landmarks would teleport you. |
| [10:19] | Torley Linden: | Neuro: I admit! |
| [10:19] | Wyn Galbraith has worn a boat. | |
| [10:19] | Iridium Linden: | It was pink and green! |
| [10:19] | Benjamin Linden: | actually, we're working on that Torley! |
| [10:20] | Torley Linden: | OMG!!! |
| [10:20] | Benjamin Linden: | (doubleclicking landmarks to tp) |
| [10:20] | Torley Linden: | Coco and I were just talking about that the other day Ben. |
| [10:20] | Kooky Jetaime: | No matter whats done, the experiance should be consistent. Double Click should either activate the item, or bring up properties. Not do both, depending on the type |
| [10:20] | Iridium Linden: | Oh, nice! |
| [10:20] | Saijanai Kuhn: | again, it should be an optional change. The current behavior is the expected behavior |
| [10:20] | Kitty Barnett: | my mouse has a nasty habbit of double-clickling when it shouldn't so *pouts* lol... Nicholaz added a patch for landmarks in 1752 btw |
| [10:20] | Dzonatas Sol: | 1752 brings up a good point that it should be customizable, but I'm not sure if this is the right way to do it as a default |
| [10:20] | Wyn Galbraith wants a whole clothing line of Torley Textures. | |
| [10:20] | Torley Linden: | =) |
| [10:20] | Feep Larsson: | I agree with Saijanai--it's a pretty drastic action. |
| [10:20] | Squirrel Wood: | anyone with voice heard me? |
| [10:20] | Stephany Linden: | yes |
| [10:21] | Wyn Galbraith: | Yes |
| [10:21] | Benjamin Linden: | if it's a known "type" (wuch as a landmark) then it makes sense to have a default (doubleclick) action that is specific to that object type |
| [10:21] | Iridium Linden: | I did. |
| [10:21] | Saijanai Kuhn: | yep. Was that your real voice? |
| [10:21] | Squirrel Wood: | nope |
| [10:21] | Iridium Linden: | kk, so where are we with this one? |
| [10:21] | Squirrel Wood: | I just feed the stereo mix to sl ^^ |
| [10:21] | Stephany Linden: | so we are still on 1752? |
| [10:21] | Iridium Linden: | Yes. |
| [10:21] | Saijanai Kuhn weeps quietly about hte romance nipped in the bud... | |
| [10:21] | Kooky Jetaime: | Drastic as it may be, sometimes drastic is needed. Add a "One Time Popup" that illustrates the change / explains that when you double click something it is activated in accordance with the type, Notecards Open, Clothes get worn, Objects get attached. |
| [10:21] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, I'm leaning toward not taking this one |
| [10:21] | Benjamin Linden: | other opinions? |
| [10:22] | Stephany Linden: | I agree ben |
| [10:22] | Dzonatas Sol: | I can add 1752 to the test vierwer for people to download and try |
| [10:22] | Daedalus Young: | or you'd need to add an inventory type |
| [10:22] | Iridium Linden: | Hmm, that's an idea. Then see how many votes it gets? |
| [10:22] | Daedalus Young: | specifically for attachments |
| [10:22] | Saijanai Kuhn: | keep actions thte same, but allow a change in preferences if desired |
| [10:22] | Torley Linden: | I lean towards not taking it either -- because I feel there's a broader scope here which should be considered. |
| [10:22] | Wyn Galbraith: | Defaults should be left working as they are though, as Saijanai said. |
| [10:22] | Torley Linden: | We had problems in the past where it was TOO EASY to wear objects... by right-clicking and "Wear" when they were rezzed... |
| [10:22] | Benjamin Linden: | ok let's mark this as won't fix with the reason that we cannot accurately predict what effect attaching the object will have |
| [10:22] | Torley Linden: | And history -- |
| [10:22] | Dzonatas Sol: | agreed |
| [10:22] | Benjamin Linden: | ok great, next up |
| [10:22] | Torley Linden: | Aura remedied that partially by changing the default attach point from head to right hand. |
| [10:23] | Benjamin Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1076 |
| [10:23] | Wyn Galbraith: | Some of us might be use to it working this way. I wish there was a popup that said where an object will attach before you wear it. |
| [10:23] | Kooky Jetaime: | blockheads are just that though... |
| [10:23] | Wyn Galbraith: | Thank goodness for that change, Torley. |
| [10:23] | Torley Linden: | =) |
| [10:23] | Torley Linden: | Ah yes, VWR-1076 has many suggestions, some already done and implemented by our Voice Team. |
| [10:23] | Torley Linden: | Great to have Stephany here, speaking of. =o) |
| [10:23] | Squirrel Wood: | needs to be re-evaluated now that the comm window has been changed |
| [10:24] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 110 - Meta-Issue: Usability suggestions for new voice/chat Communicate window |
| [10:24] | Dzonatas Sol: | 1076 is a meta issue, is it justified to leave open? |
| [10:24] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, lots of lindens today! :- |
| [10:24] | Benjamin Linden: | :-) |
| [10:24] | Iridium Linden: | Right, I think we should resolve. We need more specific info. |
| [10:24] | Torley Linden: | VWR-1076 is a "Meta-Issue", meaning that everything within won't necessarily get done; it's more of a place for discussion to flesh out stuff and get feedback as time goes on. |
| [10:24] | Torley Linden: | Rob Linden will be adding a dedicated "Meta" state, he mentioned. |
| [10:24] | Benjamin Linden: | no, let's not resolve it |
| [10:24] | Iridium Linden: | kk |
| [10:24] | Benjamin Linden: | this is a tracking task |
| [10:25] | Dzonatas Sol: | meta issues are good ones to start sub-tasks for real implementation =) |
| [10:25] | Iridium Linden: | Shall we encourage the reporter to revisit? |
| [10:25] | Benjamin Linden: | we are pulling feedback from the linked issues into our iterations of the voice chat UI |
| [10:25] | Saijanai Kuhn: | Benja I think you're producing static |
| [10:25] | Iridium Linden: | kk |
| [10:25] | Benja Kepler: | oops |
| [10:25] | Benja Kepler: | turned it off |
| [10:25] | Benjamin Linden: | so we'll skip this for now, unless there are specific sub-tasks in here people want to discuss |
| [10:25] | Iridium Linden: | kk |
| [10:25] | Torley Linden: | History: the "Meta-Issue" stuff came out of a need for Residents to discuss related stuff not particularly related to a single issue, but connected to multiple ones. |
| [10:26] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 110 - Meta-Issue: Usability suggestions for new voice/chat Communicate window |
| [10:26] | Iridium Linden: | sorry, error. |
| [10:26] | Benjamin Linden: | but I think we should move on until Voice has reached some stasis |
| [10:26] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-489 |
| [10:26] | Squirrel Wood: | 489... YES! Please! ^^ |
| [10:26] | Benjamin Linden: | many of these issues are being addressed as we speak |
| [10:26] | Torley Linden: | This can likely be resolved when Voice is out of First Look. |
| [10:26] | Daedalus Young: | 489 is linked to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1065 |
| [10:26] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 51 - Multiple attachments per attachment point |
| [10:26] | Daedalus Young: | 1065 is -more- attachments points |
| [10:26] | Squirrel Wood: | Furries need those badly. and anyone else too ^^ |
| [10:26] | Saijanai Kuhn: | I know people want to wear more than one ring etc. |
| [10:26] | Torley Linden: | VWR-489 reminds me of why we don't have a neck attach point, hehe. ;) |
| [10:26] | Torley Linden: | Yes, furs vote strongly for these. It was a trend in the old Feature Voting Tool too. |
| [10:27] | Benjamin Linden: | I don't know what the technical ramifications of this are, does anyone else? |
| [10:27] | Torley Linden: | I don't know Benjamin, Richard could say though. |
| [10:27] | Saijanai Kuhn: | seems a no-brainer except for the technical issues... |
| [10:27] | Benjamin Linden: | is there an existing internal jira task for this? |
| [10:27] | Torley Linden: | Benjamin, I think -- let me see. |
| [10:27] | Squirrel Wood: | I wouldn't classify this as UI thing neccessarily as attach points aren't exactly an UI thing? |
| [10:27] | Benjamin Linden: | I do think there could be some usability concerns with this |
| [10:27] | Dzonatas Sol: | 52 votes, i suggest to import as-is |
| [10:28] | Iridium Linden: | That's an awful lot of votes. |
| [10:28] | Wyn Galbraith: | 53 now. |
| [10:28] | Daedalus Young: | no, it's an avatar issue, but with added UI windows or something to tell you how much attachments you have on |
| [10:28] | Torley Linden: | Also a general reminder that we haven't really been importing "New Feature" requests from the Issue Tracker unless they're closer to being actionable, |
| [10:28] | Torley Linden: | e.g., if we had an avatar enhancement project. |
| [10:28] | Benjamin Linden: | like how do you manage multiple objects connecting to the same point? do the attachment points have different orientations, etc? |
| [10:28] | Torley Linden: | Benjamin: It's what I wonder about too... |
| [10:28] | Saijanai Kuhn: | perhaps a slightly different default pos? |
| [10:29] | Torley Linden: | New Feature proposals should be accompanied with detailed explanations of how the implemenation will work. |
| [10:29] | Squirrel Wood: | 1481 - this prevents modable sculpty stuff from being sold as one can easily screenshot / steal the sculpt texture if the items are set mod ok |
| [10:29] | Benjamin Linden: | I think the agenda is slightly out of order |
| [10:29] | Torley Linden: | Otherwise, "it's a nice idea but can't be agreed upon as to how we will work forward". |
| [10:29] | Benjamin Linden: | because this is a feature request showing up under bug reports |
| [10:29] | Iridium Linden: | this is how the script fed it. |
| [10:29] | Benjamin Linden: | hmm, we should go back and doublecheck it Iridium |
| [10:30] | Iridium Linden: | Oh, weird. |
| [10:30] | Torley Linden: | Yeah... we should focus on bugs IMHO... |
| [10:30] | Dzonatas Sol: | so we need to make a sub-task on it for design specs? |
| [10:30] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, Dznonatas |
| [10:30] | Benjamin Linden: | there may already be a spot on the wiki for avatar enhancements, I'm not sure |
| [10:31] | Benjamin Linden: | but if there isn't this would be a great time to add one so people can start commenting on what their needs are related to this |
| [10:31] | Torley Linden: | The historical problem with feature requests like this is it's exceedingly hard to agree on "how it should work" so Lindens ultimately need to have a clear idea (and resources) of how to move forth with it. I think this is very unlikely to do until we've committed to an avatar improvement project with numerous other related wishes to consider. |
| [10:31] | Dzonatas Sol makes notes of it | |
| [10:31] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks Dzonatas! |
| [10:31] | Torley Linden: | It is a very big change, taken in perspective. |
| [10:31] | Benjamin Linden: | let's change the status on this to needs more info |
| [10:31] | Benja Kepler: | Torley, is that because some people don't know how things are supposed to work? |
| [10:32] | Wyn Galbraith: | good points |
| [10:32] | Torley Linden: | Benja: Partially, yes. |
| [10:32] | Saijanai Kuhn: | Perhaps with some clarification in the comments that everyone likes the idea but... |
| [10:32] | Torley Linden: | But also because stuff like this leads to feature creep... |
| [10:32] | Benjamin Linden: | I do think there are design implications |
| [10:32] | Torley Linden: | e.g., "Hey! Wait, if you're gonna add this, also add... that!" |
| [10:32] | Benjamin Linden: | that need to be thought through |
| [10:32] | Benjamin Linden: | Torley, can you resolve as Needs More Info with a comment to that effect? |
| [10:32] | Wyn Galbraith: | I've only really wished for two attachments at the same point, or maybe just more points for attachment, hand wrist, forearm, elbow, etc. |
| [10:33] | Iridium Linden: | Next one is feature too. Weird. |
| [10:33] | Torley Linden: | Sure thing Benjamin. |
| [10:33] | Saijanai Kuhn: | One thing I've seen is that short comments that are TOO short make it seem like a brush off |
| [10:33] | Daedalus Young: | or easy translation between attachment points |
| [10:33] | Wyn Galbraith: | eyelid, so we can attach really loooong lashes. |
| [10:33] | Torley Linden: | Saijanai: Like which? |
| [10:33] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 51 - Multiple attachments per attachment point |
| [10:33] | Wyn Galbraith bats eyes. | |
| [10:33] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-747 |
| [10:33] | Iridium Linden: | Let's skip to that one. |
| [10:33] | Daedalus Young: | if you have prim hair on and want to wear a hat, so the hat attaches to another point, but translates correctly at once |
| [10:33] | Saijanai Kuhn: | can't think of any off hand. Maybe just the "needs more info" variety without clarification |
| [10:34] | Benjamin Linden: | Iridium are you skipping ahead because these are feature requests? |
| [10:34] | Daedalus Young: | 747 we talked about at the general triage yesterday |
| [10:34] | Squirrel Wood: | 1481 - this prevents modable sculpties / sculpted avatars from being sold as one can easily screenshot / steal the sculpt texture if the items are set mod ok - wouldn't see this as feature request |
| [10:34] | Iridium Linden: | Yes |
| [10:35] | Iridium Linden: | I am, Ben. |
| [10:35] | Iridium Linden: | Trying to get to bugs. |
| [10:35] | Dzonatas Sol: | 747 was left open |
| [10:35] | Iridium Linden: | And looking at my script. |
| [10:35] | Benjamin Linden: | this texture resizing one is an interesting problem |
| [10:35] | Stephany Linden: | I don't see a comment on 747 from general triage - what was the discussion there? |
| [10:35] | Dzonatas Sol: | there was talk about lossless textures... but it is still talk |
| [10:35] | Benjamin Linden: | Stephany the discussion notes are probably on the wiki |
| [10:36] | Stephany Linden: | ok - thanks Dzonatas! |
| [10:36] | Dzonatas Sol: | Soft Linden has some details |
| [10:36] | Benjamin Linden: | I suggested adding a checkbox to the texture previewer that would preserve aspect ratio or not |
| [10:36] | Benjamin Linden: | and a warning that your texture will be resized on upload if it's not a powers-of-two dimension |
| [10:36] | Kooky Jetaime: | ((Lvis, you may want to detatch the sheidls, I don't think anyone here is gonna shoot ya)) |
| [10:36] | Wyn Galbraith: | Good idea Benjamin. |
| [10:36] | Daedalus Young: | that would be nice |
| [10:36] | Torley Linden: | *returns to this window* |
| [10:37] | Dzonatas Sol: | We thought about maybe an extra L$5 on lossless images.. (my suggestion) other want to just enable the option. It would solve issues like this where minor differences occur |
| [10:37] | Benjamin Linden: | I'll follow up with Rob on this and add my ideas to the issue tracker. I'm pretty sure we have some internal bugs for this too |
| [10:37] | Torley Linden: | Ah yes I remember VWR-747. |
| [10:37] | Benjamin Linden: | hey Bridie! |
| [10:37] | Benjamin Linden: | the gangs all here! |
| [10:37] | Benjamin Linden: | :-) |
| [10:37] | Torley Linden: | Heya Bridie! =) |
| [10:38] | Benja Kepler: | hi Bridie, nice trainers |
| [10:38] | Iridium Linden: | Can everyone refresh their Agenda wiki page? |
| [10:38] | Torley Linden: | Yes Benjamin, we sure do. |
| [10:38] | Benjamin Linden: | Torley, we have some internal issues related to 747 right? |
| [10:38] | Wyn Galbraith: | Linden Mania! |
| [10:38] | Benjamin Linden: | ok let's link this up later |
| [10:38] | Torley Linden: | Related VWR-192 links to one internally. |
| [10:38] | Torley Linden: | We should clarify the "powers of two" thing, it causes undue confusion for just about every newcomer who handles textures. |
| [10:38] | Benjamin Linden: | I agree Torley |
| [10:38] | Kitty Barnett: | some removed were things that were changed inconsistently though, like inventory minize used to be there, then it just wasn't anymore |
| [10:38] | Iridium Linden: | So how are we marking 747? |
| [10:38] | Torley Linden: | They go, "Hey, I just uploaded a picture, why's it squished?!!?" |
| [10:39] | Iridium Linden: | Will visit later? |
| [10:39] | Saijanai Kuhn: | I did that the first time as well, and I should know better |
| [10:39] | Benjamin Linden: | Iridium, let's leave it as-is for now |
| [10:39] | Torley Linden: | Richard and Leyla know more about this... |
| [10:39] | Iridium Linden: | kk, https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1159 |
| [10:39] | Benjamin Linden: | we'll follow up with Rob and Richard and Torley may have a suggestion for where to link this |
| [10:39] | Iridium Linden: | I'm fixing the agenda as we go, so please refresh. |
| [10:39] | Torley Linden: | Thanks Iridium! |
| [10:39] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks iridium! |
| [10:40] | Neuro Linden: | :) |
| [10:40] | Benjamin Linden: | hmm this doesn't seem like UI bug |
| [10:40] | Torley Linden: | I don't use Linux regularly so I don't know about VWR-1159. |
| [10:40] | Torley Linden: | Yeah... hrm... it's a protocol thang eh... |
| [10:41] | Torley Linden: | Internally last month, Aric said this needs to be looked at as part of "the linux process"... |
| [10:41] | Dzonatas Sol: | 1159 is more of an installer issue the UI? |
| [10:41] | Saijanai Kuhn: | is that a UI thing? |
| [10:41] | Dzonatas Sol: | *then |
| [10:41] | Benjamin Linden: | we need to change the component on this |
| [10:41] | Daedalus Young: | apparently Linux viewer not opening secondlife:// urls |
| [10:41] | Benja Kepler: | so, why did we lose VWR-394 from the agenda? |
| [10:41] | Saijanai Kuhn: | likewise with Mac, BTW |
| [10:41] | Daedalus Young: | works fine on my Mac, Sai |
| [10:42] | Daedalus Young: | 394 is skipped because it's not a bug |
| [10:42] | Benjamin Linden: | Benja, I think Iridium moved some stuff around since feature requests were showing up with the bugs |
| [10:42] | Saijanai Kuhn: | does it put them in the map? Thought it was supposed to TP |
| [10:42] | Daedalus Young: | puts it on the map |
| [10:42] | Benjamin Linden: | we want to get through bugs then move on to feature requests |
| [10:42] | Iridium Linden: | Yeah, please refresh. |
| [10:42] | Daedalus Young: | no direct tp |
| [10:42] | Benja Kepler: | ok - hard to keep up ;) |
| [10:42] | Iridium Linden: | I'm editing to keep us on bugs. |
| [10:42] | Saijanai Kuhn: | what is the proper behavior? |
| [10:42] | Dzonatas Sol: | 1159 is already imported |
| [10:42] | Iridium Linden: | just follow the links you're given here. |
| [10:42] | Daedalus Young: | which I like, I want it not to teleport me whenever I click a secondlife:// link |
| [10:42] | Benjamin Linden: | sorry, we'll figure out the jira filter problem before next week |
| [10:42] | Torley Linden: | How should we reclassify 1159? |
| [10:42] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-95 |
| [10:43] | Torley Linden: | Internally we have a Viewer - Linux component but not externally. |
| [10:43] | Iridium Linden: | That's after 1159. |
| [10:43] | Benjamin Linden: | hmm, I'm not seeing a good component for it Torley |
| [10:43] | Benjamin Linden: | maybe it should be a Service bug instead of a Viewer bug? |
| [10:43] | Torley Linden: | Yeah, of those, User Interface actually seems to come closest since it limits usability of SLURLs. |
| [10:43] | Torley Linden: | It is a Viewer one tho because it's specific to Linux... and not server-side... |
| [10:44] | Daedalus Young: | VWR-95 could also be read as a new feature: trash can in object inventory |
| [10:44] | Torley Linden: | We can just leave it be for now. |
| [10:44] | Torley Linden: | Not a big deal. =o) |
| [10:44] | Benjamin Linden: | or Source Code |
| [10:44] | Dzonatas Sol: | put it as source code? for the installer issue. even though it is two bugs |
| [10:44] | Saijanai Kuhn: | What is the "proper" behavior of SURLs? |
| [10:44] | Saijanai Kuhn: | SLURLs |
| [10:44] | Benjamin Linden: | what's the question Saijanai? |
| [10:44] | Torley Linden: | Proper behavior of SLURLs: You open one in your browser, it shows you a grayed-out map where you click to teleport through. |
| [10:44] | Torley Linden: | Following that, it opens the world map in your viewer. |
| [10:44] | Torley Linden: | Highlighting a specific location which you can then teleport to. |
| [10:45] | Daedalus Young: | then it works fine on Mac indeed :) |
| [10:45] | Saijanai Kuhn: | OK, on the Mac, the browser opens a generic box with no map, and within SL, it appears to do nothing |
| [10:45] | Benjamin Linden: | are you saying Slurls don't work on your machine Saijanai? |
| [10:45] | Saijanai Kuhn: | Seems like |
| [10:45] | Torley Linden: | Saijanai: Yeah -- "generic box" is what's currently happening... :\ it's *supposed* to be a grayed-out map, that's also a bug until we improve the webmap I believe. |
| [10:45] | Dzonatas Sol: | updated to source code |
| [10:45] | Saijanai Kuhn: | Both with Safari 2, 3 beta and Firefox |
| [10:45] | Torley Linden: | Saijanai: Click the orange teleport button. |
| [10:46] | Torley Linden: | "teleport now" |
| [10:46] | Torley Linden: | That does nothing? |
| [10:46] | Benjamin Linden: | http://slurl.com/secondlife/Beaumont/161/178/46 |
| [10:46] | Benjamin Linden: | what does clicking that do? |
| [10:46] | Benjamin Linden: | @Saijanai |
| [10:46] | Saijanai Kuhn: | get the viewer. The location has been put into the map, but no indication that its ready for TP without openint map |
| [10:47] | Benjamin Linden: | the map is open right Saijanai? |
| [10:47] | Stephany Linden: | yes |
| [10:47] | Saijanai Kuhn: | within game I get the proper behavior. We're talking about from webpages right? |
| [10:47] | Iridium Linden: | Please refresh your agenda. |
| [10:47] | Benjamin Linden: | you can use Slurls on the Web and in the Viewer |
| [10:47] | Torley Linden: | Saijanai: Yes, I believe there's an extensive article explaining how they work in the Knowledge Base. |
| [10:47] | Benjamin Linden: | Saijanai let's follow up on this offline |
| [10:47] | Kooky Jetaime: | Why use slurls when you can use secondlife://Sim/X/Y/Z ? |
| [10:47] | Benjamin Linden: | or at Thursday's meeting |
| [10:47] | Torley Linden: | OK, continuing onwards... =) |
| [10:47] | Saijanai Kuhn: | OK, its likely just confusion on my part, sorry |
| [10:48] | Neuro Linden: | slurls are a nice portal for people without the viewer installed |
| [10:48] | Torley Linden: | Kooky: Long story short, because not everyone has Second Life -- SLURLs are more useful to tell someone to download SL if they don't have it. |
| [10:48] | Benjamin Linden: | what's our next item Iridium? |
| [10:48] | Neuro Linden: | torley: snap |
| [10:48] | Torley Linden: | Hehe. |
| [10:48] | Kooky Jetaime: | Ok Iridum...that makes sense then. |
| [10:48] | Iridium Linden: | coming up.\ |
| [10:48] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-882 |
| [10:48] | Kooky Jetaime: | you too Torley :) |
| [10:49] | Torley Linden: | =) |
| [10:49] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 7 - Group name showing as (???) in IM tabs and objects edit window |
| [10:49] | Torley Linden: | Hrm, that one I checked awhile back... |
| [10:49] | Kooky Jetaime: | 882 I've got first hand experiance with |
| [10:49] | Torley Linden: | and I didn't see a solid repro for it. |
| [10:49] | Dzonatas Sol: | 882, that happens when the info hasn't fully loaded? |
| [10:49] | Kooky Jetaime: | Its hard to repro, its so...intermitent |
| [10:49] | Torley Linden: | When I went to check those regions, the "(???)" were gone. |
| [10:49] | Torley Linden: | I'll leave a comment hoping for a better repro... |
| [10:49] | Iridium Linden: | Shall we mark "need solid repro?" |
| [10:49] | Kooky Jetaime: | I've had it show up in attached objects, land info, and even my Group list I believe. |
| [10:49] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-98 |
| [10:49] | Torley Linden: | Yes Iridium. |
| [10:50] | Kooky Jetaime: | but it comes and goes |
| [10:50] | Torley Linden: | I'll mark it as "Needs More Info" and ask for SLURLs. |
| [10:50] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 7 - camera spins on zoom |
| [10:50] | Benjamin Linden: | I don't see how we're going to tackle this without a repro |
| [10:50] | Squirrel Wood: | I saw that same thing with creator information ? |
| [10:50] | Kooky Jetaime: | (even within the group / sim that it happens) |
| [10:50] | Dzonatas Sol: | it may be a network issue, not UI |
| [10:50] | Squirrel Wood: | (unknown creator) |
| [10:50] | Benjamin Linden: | I'm getting bad IM lag |
| [10:50] | Kooky Jetaime: | Squirrel - I've seen <blank> for group info/creator before |
| [10:50] | Daedalus Young: | I see (???) in the new IM window often right after logging in, when thing are still loading |
| [10:51] | Kooky Jetaime: | usually I don't get (???) except for the group |
| [10:51] | Kooky Jetaime: | though I could use the group, had all my land rights and all. |
| [10:51] | Torley Linden: | I'm closing "VWR-882" with "Needs More Info" and leaving a comment. |
| [10:51] | Wyn Galbraith: | I've had that one happen to me. |
| [10:51] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-98 |
| [10:51] | Benjamin Linden: | resolving, not closing right Torley? |
| [10:52] | Iridium Linden: | Votes: 7 - camera spins on zoom |
| [10:52] | Dzonatas Sol: | vwr-98 already imported |
| [10:52] | Wyn Galbraith: | I had a demo by a neighbor about the center of cut prims causing the problem. |
| [10:52] | Kooky Jetaime: | I'd give mine as a repro, but Dark City has closed its doors... so I don't know if they've changed the land group or not. |
| [10:52] | Benjamin Linden: | Dzonatas is right, this has been imported |
| [10:52] | Benjamin Linden: | good thing too, this is a pain |
| [10:52] | Torley Linden: | Er, yes Benjamin. |
| [10:53] | Squirrel Wood: | 607 - could that be related to black avatars on MACs ? |
| [10:53] | Daedalus Young: | center of cut prims is a separate issue too, I remember |
| [10:53] | Torley Linden: | Daedalus has included a video repro! |
| [10:53] | Kooky Jetaime: | Testing 123 |
| [10:53] | Kooky Jetaime: | yep, definatly reproducable. |
| [10:53] | Daedalus Young: | repro on 98 |
| [10:53] | Torley Linden: | Camera control -- that's something Richard would know a lot more about too. |
| [10:53] | Benjamin Linden: | what's the next issue? |
| [10:53] | Torley Linden: | VWR-98 is a very old bug I think. |
| [10:54] | Wyn Galbraith: | It is, Daedalus? Zooming in on the hollow side of a cut box for example the camera loses control and spins around or ends somewhere else. |
| [10:54] | Benjamin Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-607 |
| [10:54] | Squirrel Wood: | 607 - could that be related to black avatars on MACs ? |
| [10:54] | Torley Linden: | OK VWR-607 isn't so much a UI issue as a general graphics rendering prob. |
| [10:54] | Daedalus Young: | ok, spinning is the same I think, but not being able to zoom in on the inside is different |
| [10:54] | Wyn Galbraith: | Zoom in on the uncut side of the same prim, no problem. |
| [10:54] | Saijanai Kuhn: | I learend not to touch certain graphics settings on the Mac due to that one |
| [10:54] | Daedalus Young: | 607 doesn't happen on my Intel Mac |
| [10:54] | Torley Linden: | There are a number of "black avatars" issues on Issue Tracker. |
| [10:54] | Wyn Galbraith ponders that. | |
| [10:54] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, this is a graphics problem |
| [10:55] | Bridie Linden: | From 1.15... |
| [10:55] | Feep Larsson: | Sounds like a driver issue... |
| [10:55] | Benjamin Linden: | I removed the UI component |
| [10:55] | Squirrel Wood: | happens with nvidia and ati cards I heard |
| [10:55] | Zetetic Aubret: | Doesn't happen for me either (macbook pro) |
| [10:55] | Torley Linden: | What we should safely do here is prescribe the usual troubleshooting steps and all those check out fine, we can ask our graphics devs to check it out deeper. |
| [10:55] | Saijanai Kuhn: | unfortunately Apple commisssions the graphcis drivers |
| [10:55] | Feep Larsson: | Yup...Although it could be a specific driver version; hard to tell |
| [10:56] | Wyn Galbraith: | And Intel chipsets which I have. I don't think it's dependent on the chipset since the person who demo'd it for me has a handbuilt system with the supported graphics. |
| [10:56] | Feep Larsson: | Doesn't happen on my MacBook Pro with ATI X1600.. |
| [10:56] | Torley Linden: | I can import VWR-607 and ping some of our graphics devs about it. The issue has laid fallow for a month so I'll ping and ask for info. |
| [10:56] | Benjamin Linden: | it has a repro, let's go ahead and import it |
| [10:56] | Kooky Jetaime: | ... |
| [10:56] | Torley Linden: | (I'll do that first before importation, heh.) |
| [10:56] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks Torley! |
| [10:56] | Torley Linden: | NP! |
| [10:56] | Dzonatas Sol: | skip vwr-199, already imported |
| [10:56] | Wyn Galbraith dittos the thanks. | |
| [10:57] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks Dzonatas |
| [10:57] | Benjamin Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-699 |
| [10:57] | Benjamin Linden: | this isn't really UI either, more performance |
| [10:57] | Benjamin Linden: | and it's been imported already |
| [10:58] | Benjamin Linden: | I'm just going to remove the UI component |
| [10:58] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1191 |
| [10:58] | Torley Linden: | Cool beans, we keep moving on! |
| [10:58] | Benjamin Linden: | Iridium's crackin the whip! |
| [10:58] | Daedalus Young: | 1191 needs an offline region to repro |
| [10:59] | Stephany Linden: | go iridium! |
| [10:59] | Daedalus Young: | I did capture it on video though when I first encountered it |
| [10:59] | Benja Kepler: | there's one to the north! |
| [10:59] | Benjamin Linden: | there is a video repro |
| [10:59] | Dzonatas Sol: | do we have an offline region currently? |
| [10:59] | Benja Kepler: | N of Beaumont |
| [10:59] | Torley Linden: | *watches video* |
| [10:59] | Benjamin Linden: | is this searching in the Search UI or searching on the map? |
| [10:59] | Benja Kepler: | Map |
| [10:59] | Torley Linden: | Searching on World Map. |
| [10:59] | Benja Kepler: | world map |
| [10:59] | Torley Linden: | The video is a clear repro. |
| [10:59] | Torley Linden: | =) |
| [10:59] | Daedalus Young: | searching the map |
| [10:59] | Squirrel Wood pokes torley's IM window ^^ | |
| [11:00] | Torley Linden: | (Sorry can't get to IMs right now. :) ) |
| [11:00] | JayR Cela: | http://www.tweaksrus.com/ you may have some luck with this web site for Video drivers |
| [11:00] | Daedalus Young: | thanks Torley :) |
| [11:00] | Torley Linden: | Thanks for doing that Daedalus... |
| [11:00] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, I see it now |
| [11:00] | Benjamin Linden: | nice video! |
| [11:00] | Daedalus Young: | thanks |
| [11:00] | Torley Linden: | Yeah!! |
| [11:00] | Torley Linden: | :D |
| [11:00] | Iridium Linden: | So import? |
| [11:00] | Benjamin Linden: | let's import it |
| [11:00] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1191 |
| [11:00] | Torley Linden: | Yeah this one should not happen, that's pretty clear to me. |
| [11:00] | Iridium Linden: | kewl |
| [11:00] | Benjamin Linden: | yes please! |
| [11:00] | Torley Linden: | Rock on. |
| [11:00] | Torley Linden: | *imports* |
| [11:01] | Benjamin Linden: | let's do one more then wrap up |
| [11:01] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1191 |
| [11:01] | Iridium Linden: | why does it keep doing that? |
| [11:01] | Trinity Coulter: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-445 |
| [11:01] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-889 |
| [11:01] | Sphere Mielziner: | hello |
| [11:01] | Iridium Linden: | we're almost done. |
| [11:01] | Iridium Linden: | Only two more on this agenda. |
| [11:01] | Sphere Mielziner: | hello |
| [11:02] | Iridium Linden: | Let's do these two and look at 445 next week, yeah? |
| [11:02] | Wyn Galbraith: | Hello. |
| [11:02] | Benjamin Linden: | yeah let's just finish the agenda items |
| [11:02] | Iridium Linden: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1460 |
| [11:02] | Iridium Linden: | That's the other one. |
| [11:02] | Zetetic Aubret: | 889 seems much more likely to be a render issue |
| [11:02] | Iridium Linden: | Right. |
| [11:02] | Iridium Linden: | That's what I was thinking. |
| [11:02] | Torley Linden: | Yeah... |
| [11:02] | Iridium Linden: | 1460 then? |
| [11:02] | Benjamin Linden: | agreed |
| [11:03] | Benjamin Linden: | but we should import it if it's repro |
| [11:03] | Trinity Coulter: | omg 1460... is a really good one |
| [11:03] | Trinity Coulter: | i have been burned by that before |
| [11:03] | Torley Linden: | I wonder if we actually support that graphics chip. |
| [11:03] | Torley Linden: | I don't know for sure offhand. |
| [11:03] | Kitty Barnett: | just needs can_resize set to true instead of false? |
| [11:03] | Torley Linden: | You know what, more people experiencing that should provide their system configs. (VWR-889) |
| [11:03] | Iridium Linden: | kk, so how do we want to mark this one? |
| [11:03] | Zetetic Aubret: | 1460 looks worth importing to me. Pretty straightforward. |
| [11:03] | Torley Linden: | I'll ask them for more info. |
| [11:04] | Trinity Coulter: | same with 445 |
| [11:04] | Iridium Linden: | Marking as "needs more info." |
| [11:04] | Trinity Coulter: | same kind of fix |
| [11:04] | Torley Linden: | Thanks Iridium. |
| [11:04] | Benjamin Linden: | Torley are you going to resolve 889 as needs more info? |
| [11:04] | Benjamin Linden: | ok thanks guys |
| [11:04] | Torley Linden: | Yes I am Ben. |
| [11:04] | Benjamin Linden: | so what about 1460? |
| [11:04] | Benjamin Linden: | this seems like an easy fix |
| [11:04] | Dzonatas Sol removed the Building (inworld) component from vwr-889 | |
| [11:05] | Benjamin Linden: | I think it's just truncating the string at an arbitrary length |
| [11:05] | Iridium Linden: | What did we do about 747 and 98? |
| [11:06] | Benjamin Linden: | Torley, did you import 1460? I think we could also link that internally to 4777 |
| [11:06] | Torley Linden: | Iridium: 98 is already imported, a dev who knows about this further could look into it. |
| [11:06] | Benjamin Linden: | Iridium, let's talk about 747 afterwards |
| [11:06] | Torley Linden: | Good idea Benjamin. *imports* |
| [11:06] | Benjamin Linden: | I think there are other related bugs we can link up |
| [11:06] | Iridium Linden: | kk |
| [11:06] | Benjamin Linden: | alright folks we're out of time |
| [11:06] | Benjamin Linden: | awesome job today! |
| [11:07] | Wyn Galbraith: | Thanks for the great meeting guys. |
| [11:07] | Torley Linden: | Yeah thanks all for coming and helping us! =D |
| [11:07] | Dzonatas Sol: | thank you all for being here! woot! |
| [11:07] | Benjamin Linden: | we made it through a ton of bugs even after starting late |
| [11:07] | Feep Larsson: | Thanks, Benjamin et al! |
| [11:07] | JayR Cela: | thanks |
| [11:07] | Iridium Linden: | I'll figure out the agenda script issue and post next weeks agenda by close of business today./ |
| [11:07] | Torley Linden: | We are getting better after each week, me hopes! |
| [11:07] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks Iridium! you rock as always! |
| [11:07] | cincin Goodliffe: | :) This is an interesting process to listen to.. |
| [11:07] | Torley Linden: | w00t! Rawk on! |
| [11:07] | Iridium Linden: | Awww, thank you, Benjamin. |
| [11:08] | Benjamin Linden: | take care everybody! |
| [11:08] | Torley Linden: | Great dynamics of teamwork! |
| [11:08] | Daedalus Young: | bye! |