User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Jun 19

From Second Life Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

Wyn Galbraith cheers, "Benjamin arrives!"
Tao Takashi: It's Benjamin! :)
Squirrel Wood: B. Remove the Ethernet card and replace it with an Ethernet card that is PXE compliant.
Benjamin Linden: hey folks
Tao Takashi: Hey Benjamin
Squirrel Wood: Hellos Ben ^^
Sindy Tsure waves
Sindy Tsure: hiya
Benjamin Linden: wow big crowd today!
Harleen Gretzky: Hi Benjamin :)
Wyn Galbraith: You must be in trouble, Benjamin ;)
Benjamin Linden: lol
Saijanai Kuhn: you're not voice enabled hear yet, are y ou?
Benjamin Linden: I'm betting I'm going to hear a few comments on the voice first look
Tao Takashi: so when is this MAC OSX like interface for SL coming, the one you never promised to come? ;-)
Benjamin Linden: no, I don't think this parcel is voice enabled yet
Tao Takashi: well, I get used to the comm window but I'd like it to close on the same keystroke I open it with
Saijanai Kuhn: so people must complain about voice in text?
Benjamin Linden: lol @ Saijanai
Benjamin Linden: actually I'm still debating whether to do office hours in voice or not
Benjamin Linden: it's much easier to keep track of conversations using text chat
Tao Takashi: many Lindens seem to debate it ;-)
Squirrel Wood: Be glad you don't have to communicate in 1s and 0s ^^
Tao Takashi: maybe text chat is better as you can post it to the wiki
Wyn Galbraith reminds people it's hard to log voice. :)
Benjamin Linden: right
Tao Takashi: not everybody can attend and so they can stay in the loop
Benjamin Linden: that's a good point Tao
Squirrel Wood: transscripting voice will be hard
Tao Takashi: maybe esp. important with hot topics like the one at Robin's hour
Saijanai Kuhn: should at least have text-to-voice option...
Tao Takashi: ones
Wyn Galbraith: What if the user is deaf?
Benjamin Linden: it would be nice to have text-to-speech
Wyn Galbraith: Then a voice recording would do them no good.
Saijanai Kuhn: option...
Squirrel Wood: The deafness of many users tends to be very selective ^^
Benjamin Linden: there are some apps out there that do that
Tao Takashi: voice recording is also more difficult to consume
Tao Takashi: reading/skimming is faster
Benjamin Linden: yes, I'm leaning in that direction
Sindy Tsure: harder to edit out spam & such, too
Gao Niangao has hysterical blindness about voice
Benjamin Linden: plus people can carry on multiple threads in parallel
Tao Takashi: BUY ALL MY STUFF!
Wyn Galbraith thinks the meetings should stay chat just for the recording capabilities.
Saijanai Kuhn wants more advanced text coloring in chat (and custom ping)
Benjamin Linden: we'll cross that bridge when we come to it! :-)
Tao Takashi: unless somebody writes some sort of protocol but I doubt we wanna do that ;-)
Benjamin Linden: protocol for what?
Tao Takashi: if we do voice about what we have talked about
Benjamin Linden: Saijanai what do you mean by custom ping?
Tao Takashi: like it would maybe be done in RL meetings
Tao Takashi: some summary
Saijanai Kuhn: a different sound for various chat channels and/or avatars
Saijanai Kuhn: If Phil Linden enters the room, I expect a heavenly choir...
Benjamin Linden: oh I see, Tao, yes I was thinking we could consider doing part of the meeting in voice and part not
Benjamin Linden: we can experiment
Benjamin Linden: lol @ Saijanai
Tao Takashi: maybe :)
Benjamin Linden: lots of new faces today
Saijanai Kuhn: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1144
Benjamin Linden: what's on people's minds?
Benjamin Linden: thanks for the link Saijanai!
Sindy Tsure is a first timer.. just here to listen in and maybe score a bear
Benjamin Linden: who's used the new voice first look viewer?
Tao Takashi: we tried to do a webmonday yesterday with the voice FL client
Saijanai Kuhn: likewise, mostly, but I have a big mouth
Tao Takashi: with 30 people or so
Squirrel Wood cracks whip at jira to load faster
Jurin Juran: ok, personally I am tired of the memory leaks in the viewer
Tao Takashi: hasn't somebody on the sldev list fixed those leaks?
Sindy Tsure: and Friends not being very stable
Sindy Tsure: *friends list.. unstable friends is a non-LL issue...
MC Matova: can't buy currency -- despite our best efforts...
Benjamin Linden: Sindy, what do you mean by friends being unstable?
Jurin Juran: i use first look voice daily
Squirrel Wood: Oh yes. I keep receiving offline IMs from active IM chat sessions.
Sindy Tsure: i still see people as being offline when i know they're not
Jurin Juran: yes, that happens with me too
Sindy Tsure: first IM to them will make them suddenly come online
Sindy Tsure: ty!
Sindy Tsure: doesn't always seem to match up with the web version, too..
Squirrel Wood: yups. presence information is still all bonkers
Sindy Tsure: that might be a server thing, though.. not sure it's a viewer thing
Benjamin Linden: I see, so there are presence issues
Tao Takashi: more a server thing, Zero discussed it last week shortly
Gao Niangao: Zero had some things to say about a different implementation of the Friends List push/pull model
Tao Takashi: he thougt it was more stable
Benjamin Linden: Zero puts chat logs of his office hours up on his wiki page
Tao Takashi: but was proven otherwise and in fact I was standing quite a lot next to my offline friends the last days
Benjamin Linden: let me know if you need the link
Benjamin Linden: Tao, is this already in Jira?
Tao Takashi: it might have been a bit better the last days though
Tao Takashi: I think so.. I haven't reported it but I am sure many people have
Jurin Juran: this weekend groups didn't show up in first look voice for awhile, scared me, thought i lost alot of land!
Gao Niangao: it seems to be coupled with the sickness of the Asset Server somehow... like that initial "pull" just gets lost cuz something is overloaded
Tao Takashi: I also would like to have the speech gestures in the FL viewer, btw
Saijanai Kuhn: speaking of jira... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-153
Benjamin Linden: the gestures aren't there?
Benjamin Linden: hmm
Squirrel Wood gave you second life servers.
Tao Takashi: I didn't find them at least, I guessbecause it's a FL and the database has not been updated for the general inventory
Benjamin Linden: thanks for the pic, Squirrel!
Tao Takashi: just wondering if some residents already have done better gestures
Benjamin Linden: hmm I'll need to doublecheck that
Squirrel Wood: If the asset server looks anything like that thing on the picture I be vewwy vewwy scawed!
Benjamin Linden: we had a standard set built and they're ok but we figured the community would come up with even better ones
Benjamin Linden: haha, Squirrel, I've not seen the datacenter so I can't comment :-)
Tao Takashi: so anything new on the UI front at LL? :)
Sindy Tsure: or, if we're still talking about bugs, https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-176 is fairly painful..
Very Susanti: hello everyone
Benjamin Linden: hi Very!
Squirrel Wood: Meep
Benjamin Linden: pulling up your link Sindy
Sindy Tsure waves
Tao Takashi: jira could also be faster ;-)
Sindy Tsure: viewer crash when you try to save object back to object contents
Benjamin Linden: it looks like this is being worked on Sindy
Sindy Tsure knows.. just had to pimp her favorite bug
Very Susanti: what are the topics for today?
Benjamin Linden: lol
Benjamin Linden: we were just discussing various UI issues, Very
Very Susanti: groups have come up before is there a forum page for ideas about groups?
Squirrel Wood: WB Ben
Very Susanti: wb
Benjamin Linden: thanks!
Sindy Tsure: or, if scaling is the reason for 25 groups, having a read-only class of groups would be okay with me - many are just for product ads & stuff..
Very Susanti: you crashed in time to miss my gripe
Benjamin Linden: sorry I got disconnected from the sim
Tao Takashi: some easier system to change permission (like bulk changes) would be very handy, btw
Gao Niangao: oh, Very: for all video, or just one? cuz I've had to re-install quicktime to remove a bad cached vid before
Wyn Galbraith: Happens to the best of Lindens et all, Benjamin.
Very Susanti: most video, I am assuming it is a Windows firewall issue, but I have been fighting with it forever
Tao Takashi: indeed, ask Zero about crashing ;_)
Very Susanti: tried that a few times too
Benjamin Linden: would someone mind sending me a notecard with the chat transcript till now
Very Susanti: woo hoo got a new GLX card today!!
Tao Takashi: oh, and if you do search, please also do think about CC licensed content
Very Susanti: maybe that will stop some of my crashes
Tao Takashi: that would rock
Benjamin Linden: I'm not sure my viewer was set to log
Sindy Tsure: i'll copy the log, ben
Benjamin Linden: thanks Sindy
Tao Takashi: (which means, make a field for it in the object and make this searchable)
Very Susanti: who else is using the firstlook client?
Saijanai Kuhn: not right now...
Gao Niangao gave you benjamin linden's office hour transcipt in-progress.
Very Susanti: I like the way the chatterbox frees up some screen realestate
Benjamin Linden: thanks Gao!
Tao Takashi: yeah, it's not too bad.. maybe for small screens though
Saijanai Kuhn: I've heard many complaints about chatterbox. At the least, the voice-specific info should be hideable...
Jurin Juran: i'm not right now, i use it daily though, but it crashes at unfortunate times...
Tao Takashi: I wonder if that upper part can be made collapsable or so
Very Susanti: haha I have a 24" widescreen LCD
Sindy Tsure gave you Benjamin Linden partial log for 6/19 office hours.
Benjamin Linden: thanks Sindy!
Jurin Juran: it would be nice to be able to customise the communicate window a little more
Benjamin Linden: yes, there have been many complaints about the size of the chatterbox
Sindy Tsure: no problem.. 'scuse the online/offlines and stuff
Saijanai Kuhn: 21" oldschool ViewSonic for video editing (I wish)
Benjamin Linden: we did design it to have the top panel collapse
Benjamin Linden: but that didn't get implemented before the first look launch
Benjamin Linden: it will get done, I promise!
Juliet Ceres: if I may - the chatbox isn't just hardly usable because of its size
Very Susanti: yeah sometimes I think all developers work on 30" monitors and forget not every else has large screens
Tao Takashi: ah, cool
Juliet Ceres: it'S also hardly usable because groups and friends are in different tabs
Juliet Ceres: so you got two tabs which whould be one
Juliet Ceres: should
Tao Takashi: I actually like the distinction into friends and groups
Benjamin Linden: the goal, to be clear, is to allow you to get the layout back to very close to the way it was, should you desire
Jurin Juran: and can we please mute groups at times?
Saijanai Kuhn wants automute optin on peope with voice-toggle locked ON
Benjamin Linden: we'll make the default window size close to the chat history window and allow you to tear out the Near me tab
Tao Takashi: mute groups or being able to hide group IMs from chat overlay would be nice
Jurin Juran: tearing out near me will be great
Tao Takashi: oh and regarding the speech indicators, I'd like to have some sound meters there so I can see more in detail who is really talking
Juliet Ceres: prblem is: can this made default?
Tao Takashi: not just the icon if the line is open
Juliet Ceres: or do we have to do it every time we log in again?
Tao Takashi: because we had it all open yesterday because with PTT we just got stuttering
Benjamin Linden: Juliet, I want to see the client remember your settings
Benjamin Linden: but I might have to fight with the devs on that
Juliet Ceres: sorry?
Juliet Ceres: ah ok
Sindy Tsure votes for clients that remember how i want them to look
Very Susanti: I would like the option to reorder the tabs so the important conv are ahead of group chatter
Benjamin Linden: Tao, can you elaborate on what you mean regarding the speech indicators
Juliet Ceres: well the devs shouldn't get to decide what that stuff looks like
Tao Takashi: if you click the speech bubble icon you get the list of the speak enables avatars close to you
Saijanai Kuhn: goes back to extra choices for colorizing text...
Juliet Ceres: I for one have a business in here that I live from and I need to be able to communicate in the most efficient way
Juliet Ceres: and the interface how it is now is far better than the new interface
Tao Takashi: and you get a round icon indicating green if they speak or at least if some sound is coming from then I assume
Benjamin Linden: I hear you Juliet, believe me! :-)
Tao Takashi: I would like it more if there would be some sort of waveform/etc behind it so you can see the signal
Juliet Ceres: also, I won'T be using voice at all so the new tabs and buttons don'T help me at all
Tao Takashi: something like what is above your head
Tao Takashi: not sure what it's called in english ;-)
Tao Takashi: some level meter or so
Tao Takashi: so I can see more directly who is talking
Squirrel Wood: make the avatars pulse/glow while they are jabbering away at their imagined microphone? ^^
Benjamin Linden: ok, we did prototype something like that but it didn't make it into the current build. we are working on an icon that provides more feedback
Tao Takashi: and one problem is of course that the list resorts itself all the time
Tao Takashi: so it's hard to adjust volumes
Benjamin Linden: you can re-sort on Name
Benjamin Linden: we may make that the default
Saijanai Kuhn: very important for anti-griefing that we know who ha voice locked ON
Tao Takashi: I noticed but then I have so search again for the speaking people ;-)
Tao Takashi: so maybe a more lazy sorting would be nice or so
Benjamin Linden: Saijanai can you explain?
Tao Takashi: or a lock
Benjamin Linden: interesting Tao
Benjamin Linden: btw, there is an issue with Macs where the list goes haywire
Saijanai Kuhn: If someone is constantly burping, heavy breathing, etc., or has loud music playing or constant echos, etc.
Benjamin Linden: that's being addressed
Tao Takashi: well, it was windows
Very Susanti: yeah and can you mute voice from the pie menu? I haven't yet had a chance to try it
Benjamin Linden: do you mean griefing Saijanai or people just not being aware?
Saijanai Kuhn: a bitof both.
Juliet Ceres: Benjamin: where's the difference?
Sindy Tsure must run and deeds her seat to Jurin
Sindy Tsure: cyas!
Sindy Tsure: ty for the bear, Ben!
Tao Takashi: take care, Sindy!
Jurin Juran: bye sindy
Benjamin Linden: thanks for coming Sindy!
Saijanai Kuhn: bye
Benjamin Linden: that's a good question about the pie menu, I'll need to check that
Benjamin Linden: I've wanted to control people's volume from the pie menu
Tao Takashi: well, this voice jittering bug should maby get fixed but it's already assigned internally as I can see
Benjamin Linden: voice jittering?
Tao Takashi: that would be cool, Benjamin
Tao Takashi: we had lots of stuttering yesterday with our 30 people
Saijanai Kuhn: without some clue as to who is locked ON, it takes a while to mute evryone and then unmute them
Benjamin Linden: oh right
Gao Niangao: actually, it might even be kinda nice for the parcel voice setting to be ON / PUSH_TO_TALK_ONLY/ or OFF
Tao Takashi: and this voice stuttering went away when I changed to open mic
Tao Takashi: so some server bug I assume
Tao Takashi: an interesting bug though ;-)
Tao Takashi: so we ended all up with open mics
Benjamin Linden: interesting. I've been figuring it was just network issues
Benjamin Linden: Saijanai & Gao, these are interesting ideas about PTT
Very Susanti: I have heard the same from regular inworld sounds
Tao Takashi: we also thought that but then somebody switched PTT off and it was ok
Benjamin Linden: internally we've mostly been handling it by saying, "someone needs to turn on PTT!!"
Tao Takashi: I also had to unmute my mic to listen ok
Benjamin Linden: and then they do
Very Susanti: for example near a motorway SIM with lots of vehicles
Benjamin Linden: the problem with muting people is that then you don't hear them at all
Saijanai Kuhn: Try hanging in Ahern with lots of young'ns...
Tao Takashi: just filter out the noise ;-)
Very Susanti: or Korea, I made my bones there
Very Susanti: with no audio mute :/
Tao Takashi: are moderation controls for e.g. parcel owners planned?
Tao Takashi: like mute all except one speaker?
Benjamin Linden: yes, there will be various moderator controls, which I believe are done through groups. I need to go back and review that
Saijanai Kuhn: places that hve tour guides or the equivalent need special controls
Squirrel Wood: Mayhaps have a special "narrator" option that only allows one specified person to "talk" ?
Jurin Juran: good idea squirrel
Benjamin Linden: yes, I like that
Wyn Galbraith: Talking stick.
Benjamin Linden: we need to explore those ideas further
Tao Takashi: but if "Tao Takashi" comes it should be automatically overridden for me :)
Saijanai Kuhn: This is a hazy idea, but in places with multiple languages, perhaps a way of muting people speaking a different language?
Benjamin Linden: I said we need a conch shell :-)
Saijanai Kuhn: based on their preferred language...
Benjamin Linden: that's a tricky one Saijanai
Benjamin Linden: do you mean like a real-time translator?
Tao Takashi: well, the language is not yet in a generic format, just a textfield
Wyn Galbraith: sometimes it's hard to identify language when people type. Might be easier if the spoke, but how to get software to identify an accent?
Saijanai Kuhn: no, just a way of detecting the preferred language setting, with the assumption that that ist he language they prefer to speak as well as type
Tao Takashi: but I'd like it to be in a LSL readable format with language code so I can also reply with the right notecard message
Very Susanti: truthfully at least in the beginning I am not really convinced that voice griefage will be too bad an issue. Cause most people seem to be refraining from using voice especially in public places. I suspect there will be a greater use of voice in more private and or moderated enviroments, where the usual eject/banning tools will be effective in removing griefers.
Benjamin Linden: I see, interesting
Tao Takashi: but I am not sure I wanna mute them.. they might as well speak english
Benjamin Linden: good point, Very
Wyn Galbraith agrees with Very.
Tao Takashi agrees, to
Very Susanti: I have only talked to my friends so far on my island
Tao Takashi: too
Squirrel Wood: Let's see how it turns out. Restrictions can always be added later on ^^
Saijanai Kuhn: an opion, of course, and perhaps there is a way of changing what is flagged as the spoken language...
Tao Takashi: is there a lot of voice griefing going on at e.g. the welcome areas?
Very Susanti: and I have though of using it for community roundtables too
Benjamin Linden: It will be very interesting to see what kind of up-take we get on voice
Wyn Galbraith: On another world I found it hard to use voice when everyone was talking. And background noise overwhelmed everything somethimes.
Very Susanti: there is all kinds of griefing at welcome areas
Wyn Galbraith: *sometimes.
Benjamin Linden: I haven't heard reports of griefing ... yet
Very Susanti: gesture sound spamming
Saijanai Kuhn: Eh. I've seen it at ahern. The lound music etc
Very Susanti: superhuge attachments
Tao Takashi: I meant voice ;-)
Benjamin Linden: I meant specifically griefing with voice
Benjamin Linden: although I'm sure we'll get some of that
Very Susanti: voice is not even a significant new weapon in their arsenal
Tao Takashi: probably
Saijanai Kuhn: using voice output to broadcast our favorite CD to eveyone else...
Tao Takashi: you mute them too easily probably which is not possible with their attachments
Wyn Galbraith: I really don't think I'll use voice much, since I operatate mostly on a laptop and have sound muted 90% of the time due to surrounding attivities in RL.
Wyn Galbraith: *operate
Tao Takashi: then again I am also not very often in welcome areas anymore
Very Susanti: basically voice griefing just means they will be able to play longer sound clips as audio spam
Tao Takashi: oh, and when do I get voice on my sim? :)
Benjamin Linden: lol
Very Susanti: which you can do with the right scripts
Benjamin Linden: there is a rollout schedule Tao
Very Susanti: anyway
Tao Takashi: don't give it the griefers in the welcome areas first! ;-)
Benjamin Linden: it's based on how long the sim has been up
Tao Takashi: you should have made it the other way round ;-)
Very Susanti: are all class 5's ready?
Benjamin Linden: I'm not up to speed on the rollout schedule. I'd have to check and get back to you.
Saijanai Kuhn: Place I would like to see voice is House of weden. Also Info Island librarian area
Tao Takashi: and is there any information about pricing yet`?
Benjamin Linden: the plan is to have voice grid-wide in a the next few weeks
Tao Takashi: don't worry, Benjamin, I will just wait
Squirrel Wood: Is there any hope that SL will support more audio formats? Like, mp3, ogg and the like? I mean, you're using FMod which doesn't really care what sound format you throw at it ^^
Very Susanti: yay
Tao Takashi: and I guess I have to wait long anyway as it's rather new
Benjamin Linden: my understanding is that voice will be free for people to use
Juliet Ceres: oh my god
Tao Takashi: I know, I was wondering about sim owners
Juliet Ceres: please don'T roll out voice in the next weeks
Juliet Ceres: please
Very Susanti: Island prices are not changing it is the Linden Land you are talking about right?
Tao Takashi: as you now enable it everywhere I wonder if you have to disable it on quite a bunch afterwards again
Saijanai Kuhn: what about the voice servers. Won't voice require separate servers?
Benjamin Linden: I believe it's an estate charge
Juliet Ceres: not with that many bugs and glitches on the grid already
Benjamin Linden: but I think it's included for everyone who's at new monthly fee
Benjamin Linden: again, I'm not the best person to ask about pricing
Tao Takashi: who is? :)
Benjamin Linden: hmm
Very Susanti: I will look to see what the wesite sys
Very Susanti: says
Benjamin Linden: I'm not sure anyone holds office hours
Benjamin Linden: you could ask Robin :-)
Very Susanti: Meta was talking about it on Friday
Very Susanti: and she just poofed in too lol
Benjamin Linden: Saijanai -- yes, the voice servers are completely separate from the grid
Saijanai Kuhn: so all the sims will have voice servers. Thought maybe the stuttering and lag was due to dual-use of the sim servers
Tao Takashi: oh, and who is the one to ask about the L$-bought-on-ebay-thing? some german residents asked me about it as many have problems with their accounts now
Benjamin Linden: so Juliet, for people who aren't using voice there should be neglible impact
Tao Takashi: Robin?
Benjamin Linden: no, the voice servers are independent of the sims
Saijanai Kuhn: at least at Ahern, there appears to be lag due to a lot of people talking
Benjamin Linden: yes Tao, ask Robin about that
Benjamin Linden: I don't know anything about that issue
Juliet Ceres: Benjamin - there is nothing such as a nedlible impact
Very Susanti: well I suppose the SIMs or at least the agents there will have to inform the voice servers of your location and stuff
Juliet Ceres: remember windlight that caused a bug when you wanted to terraform land?
Juliet Ceres: that should have had nothing to do with each other
Jurin Juran: that one sucked!
Jurin Juran: instant poof
Benjamin Linden: that's true, Juliet, but it's complex code and sometimes things have unintended consequences
Very Susanti: or I suppose it could be a different model
Juliet Ceres: yeah i know
Benjamin Linden: that's why we have Jira! :-)
Tao Takashi: ok, thanks Benjamin.. just too bad Robin is on vacation ;-)
Juliet Ceres: but as far as I can tell, there is always a mayor bug after an upgrade lately
Juliet Ceres: so of course I fear every new feature that LL forces on us
Saijanai Kuhn: Hypes ultimate bug fix proposal: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-255
Tao Takashi: ah, speaking of windlight: will there be a sim wide setting for some default?
Wyn Galbraith: She's on vacation for two weeks I think.
Very Susanti: that is only because they are adding so much new stuff
Tao Takashi: I might ask Daniel then
Benjamin Linden: my point is that the voice system is designed not to impact performance but there may be issues we'll need to address
Very Susanti: happens with any cutting edge app
Benjamin Linden: Daniel would be a good person, Tao
Benjamin Linden: re; Windlight, yes Tao
Tao Takashi: cool, because in the last version it was sort of strange that everybody sees something different
Tao Takashi: and I as sim owner should maybe know best how I would think it should look like
Benjamin Linden: haha I like this "start from scratch" jira, Saijanai!
Benjamin Linden: actually I keep expecting someone in open source to do just that
Saijanai Kuhn: would actually make things easier, in long run
Benjamin Linden: we had a chat here a few weeks ago about building a browser plug-in
Benjamin Linden: (like flash)
Benjamin Linden: that would let you go in-world using your browser
Benjamin Linden: very light-weight
Saijanai Kuhn: BTW, the associated threads in the main forum are extremely active.
Benjamin Linden: you could use navigation and history functions built in to the browser
Very Susanti: yeah I need to compile the new windlight client to test my new graphics card, do you know is there a prefered development tool used in LL like eclipse or visual studio?
Tao Takashi wants a browser which can do both and somehow transforms from 2D to 3D :)
Benjamin Linden: so maybe someone can start by building that :-)
Tao Takashi: like I do researching with the 2D view and can then change to 3D to discuss it
Tao Takashi: and I can pay with my Tao account also on the web and I am logged in already
Benjamin Linden: or maybe side-by-side, tao
Tao Takashi: side-by-side can be html-on-a-prim
Benjamin Linden: I think that's the vision, Tao
Tao Takashi: far away vision though as many companies would not want this
Tao Takashi: I mean even in the social web apps today we have separate accounts everywhere
Tao Takashi: imagine X virtaul worlds where in each of them you have to define your avatar
Benjamin Linden: identity management is a huge issue
Benjamin Linden: right
Benjamin Linden: I think we'll get there eventually
Tao Takashi: as you probably don't want to look like a noob
Benjamin Linden: before we run out of time, I wanted to go back to one point someone made about the friends/groups design and not liking the tabs
Very Susanti: yeah I will go create an alt "BenjaminLinden Oh" seen a whole bunch of those lately
Benjamin Linden: I don't remember who said that, but can you clarify
Very Susanti: I talked about reordering them
Tao Takashi: somebody also mentioned not liking the distinction in 2 tabs
Very Susanti: oh yeah it is a pain in the butt now to TP a friend
Benjamin Linden: right, I wanted to learn more about the two tab problem
Very Susanti: it is like 10 steps
Benjamin Linden: 10 steps very?
Very Susanti: well I am exagerating
Benjamin Linden: I just did it in two
Very Susanti: finding the friends list then finding your friend in the list
Benjamin Linden: well three if you include clicking Ok on the teleport window
Very Susanti: especially for long lists
Wyn Galbraith: Very must time everything by 5 ;)
Benjamin Linden: but that was probably an issue before too, right?
Tao Takashi: [10:27] Juliet Ceres: it'S also hardly usable because groups and friends are in different tabs [10:28] Juliet Ceres: so you got two tabs which whould be one [10:28] Juliet Ceres: should
Very Susanti: hehe I include scrolling in the equations
Wyn Galbraith hates scrolling.
Benjamin Linden: so maybe a faster way to search your friends list?
Tao Takashi: right, we need text search in the history windows! :)
Very Susanti: I used to have the friends popup scaled to the window size so I could see a sizeable number of names at once
Tao Takashi: find-as-you-type
Benjamin Linden: yes, I agree Tao
Very Susanti: I can't do that with the current interface
Squirrel Wood: Okay. One special client for Wan where nothing will work without having to scroll ^^
Squirrel Wood: Wyn even ^^
Wyn Galbraith: I was thinking that just now, Tao, a search option for history.
Torley Linden: Heyhey everyone
Tao Takashi: Hey Torley
Wyn Galbraith: LOL Squirrel
Lucky43 Babii: hi
Jurin Juran: hey torley
Very Susanti: if you don't have many friends it isn't too big of an inconvenience but if you have a long list it is a pain to find someone
Squirrel Wood: Yellow Torley ^^
Very Susanti: Hi Torely
Jurin Juran: yes, just have no friends
Torley Linden: i am being tremendously garish today.
Tao Takashi: search for friends would also be good
Wyn Galbraith: you look great, Torley.
Tao Takashi: I was wondering about that recently
Tao Takashi: also find-as-you-type
Harleen Gretzky: Hi Torley
Tao Takashi: like in inventory
Squirrel Wood: friend list.. make sure that window is activem then start typing the name you look for. ^^
Benjamin Linden: yes, I think that's a good idea Tao
Squirrel Wood: you'll find it instantly
Tao Takashi: and I would also like to have context menus in the chatterbox for things like add friend, etc.
Benjamin Linden: god don't get me started about context menus
Benjamin Linden: we do a really bad job of standardizing them throughout the client
Squirrel Wood: there's room for improvement ^^
Very Susanti: yeah that is a common complaint, in a lot of software packages
Tao Takashi: esp. for the things related to avatars.. there seems to be a different set of buttons/functionality all the time it feels sometimes ;_)
Saijanai Kuhn: need THought Police ala old School Apple Computer
Tao Takashi: like in profile page, in friends list, in history etc.
Tao Takashi: Hm, old client here, cannot check ;-)
Saijanai Kuhn: a team that reviews all interfacedesign against an established standard
Very Susanti: haha I have heard that one before
Benjamin Linden: yes, Saijanai, we want to get to the point where we have UI guidelines
Benjamin Linden: so we can apply consistent standards
Benjamin Linden: I'm working on that :-)
Benjamin Linden: the one man user experience shop
Torley Linden: i like the Apple Human Interface Guidelines in themselves, the tome is very neat and easy to read
Torley Linden: i know whenever Apple UI comes up people go, "Why the inconsistencies between Aqua and stainless steel appearance!?" tho
Saijanai Kuhn: Jobs canned the Thought Police though, and it shows in the MacOS X interface
Torley Linden: haha Benjamin great way to put it
Very Susanti: and guidline don't matter if you can't really enforce them
Saijanai Kuhn: Thing is, Jobs wanted to be the only Thought Police team member so he killed the concept
Benjamin Linden: Apple definitely has their own UI issues
Very Susanti: that is usually the issue enforcement and schedules
Saijanai Kuhn: new interface sucks, in many wys
Benjamin Linden: I used to be a big mac user back in the day
Benjamin Linden: but then the real world forced me on to PCs
Benjamin Linden: and I never went back... :-)
Saijanai Kuhn: they lost their timing on how to implement heirarchical menus... Speaking of which, there's some timing issues in the Mac version at least of the SL client
Very Susanti: haha yeah
Tao Takashi went from Linux to Mac as it's also unix based but it does not have all that hassle with getting things running
Very Susanti: I have tried to go back, but never managed
Tao Takashi: but then again I have windows, mac and linux running
Tao Takashi: windows mostly for SL as this is the biggest mahine
Benjamin Linden: well guys, Torley and I have a meeting now
Very Susanti: yeah for something like SL the only thing that really maters is driver support
Benjamin Linden: so we should wrap up
Benjamin Linden: thanks everyone for your feedback!
Benjamin Linden: good discussion today
Lucky43 Babii: ty
Very Susanti: thank you Benjamin
Gao Niangao: thanks, Benjamin
Saijanai Kuhn: if you overshoot a drag and drop action, there's no puase required to open/close folders and other interface elements, so everthing pops on and off as fast as youmove themouse
Tao Takashi: thanks for hosting it :)
Torley Linden: good to see you all =)
Harleen Gretzky: ty Benjamin
Torley Linden: take care
Harleen Gretzky: ty Torley
Wyn Galbraith: As always thanks for the meeting. You and Torley have fun ;)
Benjamin Linden: Saijanai -- we're adding a "sleep" function to the inventory tabs to help with that
Saijanai Kuhn: sounds good.
Harleen Gretzky: May I have a bear Benjamin?
Saijanai Kuhn: BTW, was semi-serious about the SL 2.0 proposal. Some tings are goign to take forever with the current design
Harleen Gretzky: ty :)
Saijanai Kuhn: thanks
Benjamin Linden: bye guys, gotta run!