User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Jun 19
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Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:
| Wyn Galbraith cheers, "Benjamin arrives!" | ||
| Tao Takashi: | It's Benjamin! :) | |
| Squirrel Wood: | B. Remove the Ethernet card and replace it with an Ethernet card that is PXE compliant. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | hey folks | |
| Tao Takashi: | Hey Benjamin | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Hellos Ben ^^ | |
| Sindy Tsure waves | ||
| Sindy Tsure: | hiya | |
| Benjamin Linden: | wow big crowd today! | |
| Harleen Gretzky: | Hi Benjamin :) | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | You must be in trouble, Benjamin ;) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | lol | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | you're not voice enabled hear yet, are y ou? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I'm betting I'm going to hear a few comments on the voice first look | |
| Tao Takashi: | so when is this MAC OSX like interface for SL coming, the one you never promised to come? ;-) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | no, I don't think this parcel is voice enabled yet | |
| Tao Takashi: | well, I get used to the comm window but I'd like it to close on the same keystroke I open it with | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | so people must complain about voice in text? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | lol @ Saijanai | |
| Benjamin Linden: | actually I'm still debating whether to do office hours in voice or not | |
| Benjamin Linden: | it's much easier to keep track of conversations using text chat | |
| Tao Takashi: | many Lindens seem to debate it ;-) | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Be glad you don't have to communicate in 1s and 0s ^^ | |
| Tao Takashi: | maybe text chat is better as you can post it to the wiki | |
| Wyn Galbraith reminds people it's hard to log voice. :) | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | right | |
| Tao Takashi: | not everybody can attend and so they can stay in the loop | |
| Benjamin Linden: | that's a good point Tao | |
| Squirrel Wood: | transscripting voice will be hard | |
| Tao Takashi: | maybe esp. important with hot topics like the one at Robin's hour | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | should at least have text-to-voice option... | |
| Tao Takashi: | ones | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | What if the user is deaf? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | it would be nice to have text-to-speech | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Then a voice recording would do them no good. | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | option... | |
| Squirrel Wood: | The deafness of many users tends to be very selective ^^ | |
| Benjamin Linden: | there are some apps out there that do that | |
| Tao Takashi: | voice recording is also more difficult to consume | |
| Tao Takashi: | reading/skimming is faster | |
| Benjamin Linden: | yes, I'm leaning in that direction | |
| Sindy Tsure: | harder to edit out spam & such, too | |
| Gao Niangao has hysterical blindness about voice | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | plus people can carry on multiple threads in parallel | |
| Tao Takashi: | BUY ALL MY STUFF! | |
| Wyn Galbraith thinks the meetings should stay chat just for the recording capabilities. | ||
| Saijanai Kuhn wants more advanced text coloring in chat (and custom ping) | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | we'll cross that bridge when we come to it! :-) | |
| Tao Takashi: | unless somebody writes some sort of protocol but I doubt we wanna do that ;-) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | protocol for what? | |
| Tao Takashi: | if we do voice about what we have talked about | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Saijanai what do you mean by custom ping? | |
| Tao Takashi: | like it would maybe be done in RL meetings | |
| Tao Takashi: | some summary | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | a different sound for various chat channels and/or avatars | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | If Phil Linden enters the room, I expect a heavenly choir... | |
| Benjamin Linden: | oh I see, Tao, yes I was thinking we could consider doing part of the meeting in voice and part not | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we can experiment | |
| Benjamin Linden: | lol @ Saijanai | |
| Tao Takashi: | maybe :) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | lots of new faces today | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1144 | |
| Benjamin Linden: | what's on people's minds? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks for the link Saijanai! | |
| Sindy Tsure is a first timer.. just here to listen in and maybe score a bear | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | who's used the new voice first look viewer? | |
| Tao Takashi: | we tried to do a webmonday yesterday with the voice FL client | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | likewise, mostly, but I have a big mouth | |
| Tao Takashi: | with 30 people or so | |
| Squirrel Wood cracks whip at jira to load faster | ||
| Jurin Juran: | ok, personally I am tired of the memory leaks in the viewer | |
| Tao Takashi: | hasn't somebody on the sldev list fixed those leaks? | |
| Sindy Tsure: | and Friends not being very stable | |
| Sindy Tsure: | *friends list.. unstable friends is a non-LL issue... | |
| MC Matova: | can't buy currency -- despite our best efforts... | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Sindy, what do you mean by friends being unstable? | |
| Jurin Juran: | i use first look voice daily | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Oh yes. I keep receiving offline IMs from active IM chat sessions. | |
| Sindy Tsure: | i still see people as being offline when i know they're not | |
| Jurin Juran: | yes, that happens with me too | |
| Sindy Tsure: | first IM to them will make them suddenly come online | |
| Sindy Tsure: | ty! | |
| Sindy Tsure: | doesn't always seem to match up with the web version, too.. | |
| Squirrel Wood: | yups. presence information is still all bonkers | |
| Sindy Tsure: | that might be a server thing, though.. not sure it's a viewer thing | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I see, so there are presence issues | |
| Tao Takashi: | more a server thing, Zero discussed it last week shortly | |
| Gao Niangao: | Zero had some things to say about a different implementation of the Friends List push/pull model | |
| Tao Takashi: | he thougt it was more stable | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Zero puts chat logs of his office hours up on his wiki page | |
| Tao Takashi: | but was proven otherwise and in fact I was standing quite a lot next to my offline friends the last days | |
| Benjamin Linden: | let me know if you need the link | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Tao, is this already in Jira? | |
| Tao Takashi: | it might have been a bit better the last days though | |
| Tao Takashi: | I think so.. I haven't reported it but I am sure many people have | |
| Jurin Juran: | this weekend groups didn't show up in first look voice for awhile, scared me, thought i lost alot of land! | |
| Gao Niangao: | it seems to be coupled with the sickness of the Asset Server somehow... like that initial "pull" just gets lost cuz something is overloaded | |
| Tao Takashi: | I also would like to have the speech gestures in the FL viewer, btw | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | speaking of jira... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-153 | |
| Benjamin Linden: | the gestures aren't there? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | hmm | |
| Squirrel Wood gave you second life servers. | ||
| Tao Takashi: | I didn't find them at least, I guessbecause it's a FL and the database has not been updated for the general inventory | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks for the pic, Squirrel! | |
| Tao Takashi: | just wondering if some residents already have done better gestures | |
| Benjamin Linden: | hmm I'll need to doublecheck that | |
| Squirrel Wood: | If the asset server looks anything like that thing on the picture I be vewwy vewwy scawed! | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we had a standard set built and they're ok but we figured the community would come up with even better ones | |
| Benjamin Linden: | haha, Squirrel, I've not seen the datacenter so I can't comment :-) | |
| Tao Takashi: | so anything new on the UI front at LL? :) | |
| Sindy Tsure: | or, if we're still talking about bugs, https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-176 is fairly painful.. | |
| Very Susanti: | hello everyone | |
| Benjamin Linden: | hi Very! | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Meep | |
| Benjamin Linden: | pulling up your link Sindy | |
| Sindy Tsure waves | ||
| Tao Takashi: | jira could also be faster ;-) | |
| Sindy Tsure: | viewer crash when you try to save object back to object contents | |
| Benjamin Linden: | it looks like this is being worked on Sindy | |
| Sindy Tsure knows.. just had to pimp her favorite bug | ||
| Very Susanti: | what are the topics for today? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | lol | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we were just discussing various UI issues, Very | |
| Very Susanti: | groups have come up before is there a forum page for ideas about groups? | |
| Squirrel Wood: | WB Ben | |
| Very Susanti: | wb | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks! | |
| Sindy Tsure: | or, if scaling is the reason for 25 groups, having a read-only class of groups would be okay with me - many are just for product ads & stuff.. | |
| Very Susanti: | you crashed in time to miss my gripe | |
| Benjamin Linden: | sorry I got disconnected from the sim | |
| Tao Takashi: | some easier system to change permission (like bulk changes) would be very handy, btw | |
| Gao Niangao: | oh, Very: for all video, or just one? cuz I've had to re-install quicktime to remove a bad cached vid before | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Happens to the best of Lindens et all, Benjamin. | |
| Very Susanti: | most video, I am assuming it is a Windows firewall issue, but I have been fighting with it forever | |
| Tao Takashi: | indeed, ask Zero about crashing ;_) | |
| Very Susanti: | tried that a few times too | |
| Benjamin Linden: | would someone mind sending me a notecard with the chat transcript till now | |
| Very Susanti: | woo hoo got a new GLX card today!! | |
| Tao Takashi: | oh, and if you do search, please also do think about CC licensed content | |
| Very Susanti: | maybe that will stop some of my crashes | |
| Tao Takashi: | that would rock | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I'm not sure my viewer was set to log | |
| Sindy Tsure: | i'll copy the log, ben | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks Sindy | |
| Tao Takashi: | (which means, make a field for it in the object and make this searchable) | |
| Very Susanti: | who else is using the firstlook client? | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | not right now... | |
| Gao Niangao gave you benjamin linden's office hour transcipt in-progress. | ||
| Very Susanti: | I like the way the chatterbox frees up some screen realestate | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks Gao! | |
| Tao Takashi: | yeah, it's not too bad.. maybe for small screens though | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | I've heard many complaints about chatterbox. At the least, the voice-specific info should be hideable... | |
| Jurin Juran: | i'm not right now, i use it daily though, but it crashes at unfortunate times... | |
| Tao Takashi: | I wonder if that upper part can be made collapsable or so | |
| Very Susanti: | haha I have a 24" widescreen LCD | |
| Sindy Tsure gave you Benjamin Linden partial log for 6/19 office hours. | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks Sindy! | |
| Jurin Juran: | it would be nice to be able to customise the communicate window a little more | |
| Benjamin Linden: | yes, there have been many complaints about the size of the chatterbox | |
| Sindy Tsure: | no problem.. 'scuse the online/offlines and stuff | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | 21" oldschool ViewSonic for video editing (I wish) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we did design it to have the top panel collapse | |
| Benjamin Linden: | but that didn't get implemented before the first look launch | |
| Benjamin Linden: | it will get done, I promise! | |
| Juliet Ceres: | if I may - the chatbox isn't just hardly usable because of its size | |
| Very Susanti: | yeah sometimes I think all developers work on 30" monitors and forget not every else has large screens | |
| Tao Takashi: | ah, cool | |
| Juliet Ceres: | it'S also hardly usable because groups and friends are in different tabs | |
| Juliet Ceres: | so you got two tabs which whould be one | |
| Juliet Ceres: | should | |
| Tao Takashi: | I actually like the distinction into friends and groups | |
| Benjamin Linden: | the goal, to be clear, is to allow you to get the layout back to very close to the way it was, should you desire | |
| Jurin Juran: | and can we please mute groups at times? | |
| Saijanai Kuhn wants automute optin on peope with voice-toggle locked ON | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | we'll make the default window size close to the chat history window and allow you to tear out the Near me tab | |
| Tao Takashi: | mute groups or being able to hide group IMs from chat overlay would be nice | |
| Jurin Juran: | tearing out near me will be great | |
| Tao Takashi: | oh and regarding the speech indicators, I'd like to have some sound meters there so I can see more in detail who is really talking | |
| Juliet Ceres: | prblem is: can this made default? | |
| Tao Takashi: | not just the icon if the line is open | |
| Juliet Ceres: | or do we have to do it every time we log in again? | |
| Tao Takashi: | because we had it all open yesterday because with PTT we just got stuttering | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Juliet, I want to see the client remember your settings | |
| Benjamin Linden: | but I might have to fight with the devs on that | |
| Juliet Ceres: | sorry? | |
| Juliet Ceres: | ah ok | |
| Sindy Tsure votes for clients that remember how i want them to look | ||
| Very Susanti: | I would like the option to reorder the tabs so the important conv are ahead of group chatter | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Tao, can you elaborate on what you mean regarding the speech indicators | |
| Juliet Ceres: | well the devs shouldn't get to decide what that stuff looks like | |
| Tao Takashi: | if you click the speech bubble icon you get the list of the speak enables avatars close to you | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | goes back to extra choices for colorizing text... | |
| Juliet Ceres: | I for one have a business in here that I live from and I need to be able to communicate in the most efficient way | |
| Juliet Ceres: | and the interface how it is now is far better than the new interface | |
| Tao Takashi: | and you get a round icon indicating green if they speak or at least if some sound is coming from then I assume | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I hear you Juliet, believe me! :-) | |
| Tao Takashi: | I would like it more if there would be some sort of waveform/etc behind it so you can see the signal | |
| Juliet Ceres: | also, I won'T be using voice at all so the new tabs and buttons don'T help me at all | |
| Tao Takashi: | something like what is above your head | |
| Tao Takashi: | not sure what it's called in english ;-) | |
| Tao Takashi: | some level meter or so | |
| Tao Takashi: | so I can see more directly who is talking | |
| Squirrel Wood: | make the avatars pulse/glow while they are jabbering away at their imagined microphone? ^^ | |
| Benjamin Linden: | ok, we did prototype something like that but it didn't make it into the current build. we are working on an icon that provides more feedback | |
| Tao Takashi: | and one problem is of course that the list resorts itself all the time | |
| Tao Takashi: | so it's hard to adjust volumes | |
| Benjamin Linden: | you can re-sort on Name | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we may make that the default | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | very important for anti-griefing that we know who ha voice locked ON | |
| Tao Takashi: | I noticed but then I have so search again for the speaking people ;-) | |
| Tao Takashi: | so maybe a more lazy sorting would be nice or so | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Saijanai can you explain? | |
| Tao Takashi: | or a lock | |
| Benjamin Linden: | interesting Tao | |
| Benjamin Linden: | btw, there is an issue with Macs where the list goes haywire | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | If someone is constantly burping, heavy breathing, etc., or has loud music playing or constant echos, etc. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | that's being addressed | |
| Tao Takashi: | well, it was windows | |
| Very Susanti: | yeah and can you mute voice from the pie menu? I haven't yet had a chance to try it | |
| Benjamin Linden: | do you mean griefing Saijanai or people just not being aware? | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | a bitof both. | |
| Juliet Ceres: | Benjamin: where's the difference? | |
| Sindy Tsure must run and deeds her seat to Jurin | ||
| Sindy Tsure: | cyas! | |
| Sindy Tsure: | ty for the bear, Ben! | |
| Tao Takashi: | take care, Sindy! | |
| Jurin Juran: | bye sindy | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks for coming Sindy! | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | bye | |
| Benjamin Linden: | that's a good question about the pie menu, I'll need to check that | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I've wanted to control people's volume from the pie menu | |
| Tao Takashi: | well, this voice jittering bug should maby get fixed but it's already assigned internally as I can see | |
| Benjamin Linden: | voice jittering? | |
| Tao Takashi: | that would be cool, Benjamin | |
| Tao Takashi: | we had lots of stuttering yesterday with our 30 people | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | without some clue as to who is locked ON, it takes a while to mute evryone and then unmute them | |
| Benjamin Linden: | oh right | |
| Gao Niangao: | actually, it might even be kinda nice for the parcel voice setting to be ON / PUSH_TO_TALK_ONLY/ or OFF | |
| Tao Takashi: | and this voice stuttering went away when I changed to open mic | |
| Tao Takashi: | so some server bug I assume | |
| Tao Takashi: | an interesting bug though ;-) | |
| Tao Takashi: | so we ended all up with open mics | |
| Benjamin Linden: | interesting. I've been figuring it was just network issues | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Saijanai & Gao, these are interesting ideas about PTT | |
| Very Susanti: | I have heard the same from regular inworld sounds | |
| Tao Takashi: | we also thought that but then somebody switched PTT off and it was ok | |
| Benjamin Linden: | internally we've mostly been handling it by saying, "someone needs to turn on PTT!!" | |
| Tao Takashi: | I also had to unmute my mic to listen ok | |
| Benjamin Linden: | and then they do | |
| Very Susanti: | for example near a motorway SIM with lots of vehicles | |
| Benjamin Linden: | the problem with muting people is that then you don't hear them at all | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | Try hanging in Ahern with lots of young'ns... | |
| Tao Takashi: | just filter out the noise ;-) | |
| Very Susanti: | or Korea, I made my bones there | |
| Very Susanti: | with no audio mute :/ | |
| Tao Takashi: | are moderation controls for e.g. parcel owners planned? | |
| Tao Takashi: | like mute all except one speaker? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | yes, there will be various moderator controls, which I believe are done through groups. I need to go back and review that | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | places that hve tour guides or the equivalent need special controls | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Mayhaps have a special "narrator" option that only allows one specified person to "talk" ? | |
| Jurin Juran: | good idea squirrel | |
| Benjamin Linden: | yes, I like that | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Talking stick. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we need to explore those ideas further | |
| Tao Takashi: | but if "Tao Takashi" comes it should be automatically overridden for me :) | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | This is a hazy idea, but in places with multiple languages, perhaps a way of muting people speaking a different language? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I said we need a conch shell :-) | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | based on their preferred language... | |
| Benjamin Linden: | that's a tricky one Saijanai | |
| Benjamin Linden: | do you mean like a real-time translator? | |
| Tao Takashi: | well, the language is not yet in a generic format, just a textfield | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | sometimes it's hard to identify language when people type. Might be easier if the spoke, but how to get software to identify an accent? | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | no, just a way of detecting the preferred language setting, with the assumption that that ist he language they prefer to speak as well as type | |
| Tao Takashi: | but I'd like it to be in a LSL readable format with language code so I can also reply with the right notecard message | |
| Very Susanti: | truthfully at least in the beginning I am not really convinced that voice griefage will be too bad an issue. Cause most people seem to be refraining from using voice especially in public places. I suspect there will be a greater use of voice in more private and or moderated enviroments, where the usual eject/banning tools will be effective in removing griefers. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I see, interesting | |
| Tao Takashi: | but I am not sure I wanna mute them.. they might as well speak english | |
| Benjamin Linden: | good point, Very | |
| Wyn Galbraith agrees with Very. | ||
| Tao Takashi agrees, to | ||
| Very Susanti: | I have only talked to my friends so far on my island | |
| Tao Takashi: | too | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Let's see how it turns out. Restrictions can always be added later on ^^ | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | an opion, of course, and perhaps there is a way of changing what is flagged as the spoken language... | |
| Tao Takashi: | is there a lot of voice griefing going on at e.g. the welcome areas? | |
| Very Susanti: | and I have though of using it for community roundtables too | |
| Benjamin Linden: | It will be very interesting to see what kind of up-take we get on voice | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | On another world I found it hard to use voice when everyone was talking. And background noise overwhelmed everything somethimes. | |
| Very Susanti: | there is all kinds of griefing at welcome areas | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | *sometimes. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I haven't heard reports of griefing ... yet | |
| Very Susanti: | gesture sound spamming | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | Eh. I've seen it at ahern. The lound music etc | |
| Very Susanti: | superhuge attachments | |
| Tao Takashi: | I meant voice ;-) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I meant specifically griefing with voice | |
| Benjamin Linden: | although I'm sure we'll get some of that | |
| Very Susanti: | voice is not even a significant new weapon in their arsenal | |
| Tao Takashi: | probably | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | using voice output to broadcast our favorite CD to eveyone else... | |
| Tao Takashi: | you mute them too easily probably which is not possible with their attachments | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | I really don't think I'll use voice much, since I operatate mostly on a laptop and have sound muted 90% of the time due to surrounding attivities in RL. | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | *operate | |
| Tao Takashi: | then again I am also not very often in welcome areas anymore | |
| Very Susanti: | basically voice griefing just means they will be able to play longer sound clips as audio spam | |
| Tao Takashi: | oh, and when do I get voice on my sim? :) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | lol | |
| Very Susanti: | which you can do with the right scripts | |
| Benjamin Linden: | there is a rollout schedule Tao | |
| Very Susanti: | anyway | |
| Tao Takashi: | don't give it the griefers in the welcome areas first! ;-) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | it's based on how long the sim has been up | |
| Tao Takashi: | you should have made it the other way round ;-) | |
| Very Susanti: | are all class 5's ready? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I'm not up to speed on the rollout schedule. I'd have to check and get back to you. | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | Place I would like to see voice is House of weden. Also Info Island librarian area | |
| Tao Takashi: | and is there any information about pricing yet`? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | the plan is to have voice grid-wide in a the next few weeks | |
| Tao Takashi: | don't worry, Benjamin, I will just wait | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Is there any hope that SL will support more audio formats? Like, mp3, ogg and the like? I mean, you're using FMod which doesn't really care what sound format you throw at it ^^ | |
| Very Susanti: | yay | |
| Tao Takashi: | and I guess I have to wait long anyway as it's rather new | |
| Benjamin Linden: | my understanding is that voice will be free for people to use | |
| Juliet Ceres: | oh my god | |
| Tao Takashi: | I know, I was wondering about sim owners | |
| Juliet Ceres: | please don'T roll out voice in the next weeks | |
| Juliet Ceres: | please | |
| Very Susanti: | Island prices are not changing it is the Linden Land you are talking about right? | |
| Tao Takashi: | as you now enable it everywhere I wonder if you have to disable it on quite a bunch afterwards again | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | what about the voice servers. Won't voice require separate servers? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I believe it's an estate charge | |
| Juliet Ceres: | not with that many bugs and glitches on the grid already | |
| Benjamin Linden: | but I think it's included for everyone who's at new monthly fee | |
| Benjamin Linden: | again, I'm not the best person to ask about pricing | |
| Tao Takashi: | who is? :) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | hmm | |
| Very Susanti: | I will look to see what the wesite sys | |
| Very Susanti: | says | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I'm not sure anyone holds office hours | |
| Benjamin Linden: | you could ask Robin :-) | |
| Very Susanti: | Meta was talking about it on Friday | |
| Very Susanti: | and she just poofed in too lol | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Saijanai -- yes, the voice servers are completely separate from the grid | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | so all the sims will have voice servers. Thought maybe the stuttering and lag was due to dual-use of the sim servers | |
| Tao Takashi: | oh, and who is the one to ask about the L$-bought-on-ebay-thing? some german residents asked me about it as many have problems with their accounts now | |
| Benjamin Linden: | so Juliet, for people who aren't using voice there should be neglible impact | |
| Tao Takashi: | Robin? | |
| Benjamin Linden: | no, the voice servers are independent of the sims | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | at least at Ahern, there appears to be lag due to a lot of people talking | |
| Benjamin Linden: | yes Tao, ask Robin about that | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I don't know anything about that issue | |
| Juliet Ceres: | Benjamin - there is nothing such as a nedlible impact | |
| Very Susanti: | well I suppose the SIMs or at least the agents there will have to inform the voice servers of your location and stuff | |
| Juliet Ceres: | remember windlight that caused a bug when you wanted to terraform land? | |
| Juliet Ceres: | that should have had nothing to do with each other | |
| Jurin Juran: | that one sucked! | |
| Jurin Juran: | instant poof | |
| Benjamin Linden: | that's true, Juliet, but it's complex code and sometimes things have unintended consequences | |
| Very Susanti: | or I suppose it could be a different model | |
| Juliet Ceres: | yeah i know | |
| Benjamin Linden: | that's why we have Jira! :-) | |
| Tao Takashi: | ok, thanks Benjamin.. just too bad Robin is on vacation ;-) | |
| Juliet Ceres: | but as far as I can tell, there is always a mayor bug after an upgrade lately | |
| Juliet Ceres: | so of course I fear every new feature that LL forces on us | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | Hypes ultimate bug fix proposal: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-255 | |
| Tao Takashi: | ah, speaking of windlight: will there be a sim wide setting for some default? | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | She's on vacation for two weeks I think. | |
| Very Susanti: | that is only because they are adding so much new stuff | |
| Tao Takashi: | I might ask Daniel then | |
| Benjamin Linden: | my point is that the voice system is designed not to impact performance but there may be issues we'll need to address | |
| Very Susanti: | happens with any cutting edge app | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Daniel would be a good person, Tao | |
| Benjamin Linden: | re; Windlight, yes Tao | |
| Tao Takashi: | cool, because in the last version it was sort of strange that everybody sees something different | |
| Tao Takashi: | and I as sim owner should maybe know best how I would think it should look like | |
| Benjamin Linden: | haha I like this "start from scratch" jira, Saijanai! | |
| Benjamin Linden: | actually I keep expecting someone in open source to do just that | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | would actually make things easier, in long run | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we had a chat here a few weeks ago about building a browser plug-in | |
| Benjamin Linden: | (like flash) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | that would let you go in-world using your browser | |
| Benjamin Linden: | very light-weight | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | BTW, the associated threads in the main forum are extremely active. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | you could use navigation and history functions built in to the browser | |
| Very Susanti: | yeah I need to compile the new windlight client to test my new graphics card, do you know is there a prefered development tool used in LL like eclipse or visual studio? | |
| Tao Takashi wants a browser which can do both and somehow transforms from 2D to 3D :) | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | so maybe someone can start by building that :-) | |
| Tao Takashi: | like I do researching with the 2D view and can then change to 3D to discuss it | |
| Tao Takashi: | and I can pay with my Tao account also on the web and I am logged in already | |
| Benjamin Linden: | or maybe side-by-side, tao | |
| Tao Takashi: | side-by-side can be html-on-a-prim | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I think that's the vision, Tao | |
| Tao Takashi: | far away vision though as many companies would not want this | |
| Tao Takashi: | I mean even in the social web apps today we have separate accounts everywhere | |
| Tao Takashi: | imagine X virtaul worlds where in each of them you have to define your avatar | |
| Benjamin Linden: | identity management is a huge issue | |
| Benjamin Linden: | right | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I think we'll get there eventually | |
| Tao Takashi: | as you probably don't want to look like a noob | |
| Benjamin Linden: | before we run out of time, I wanted to go back to one point someone made about the friends/groups design and not liking the tabs | |
| Very Susanti: | yeah I will go create an alt "BenjaminLinden Oh" seen a whole bunch of those lately | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I don't remember who said that, but can you clarify | |
| Very Susanti: | I talked about reordering them | |
| Tao Takashi: | somebody also mentioned not liking the distinction in 2 tabs | |
| Very Susanti: | oh yeah it is a pain in the butt now to TP a friend | |
| Benjamin Linden: | right, I wanted to learn more about the two tab problem | |
| Very Susanti: | it is like 10 steps | |
| Benjamin Linden: | 10 steps very? | |
| Very Susanti: | well I am exagerating | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I just did it in two | |
| Very Susanti: | finding the friends list then finding your friend in the list | |
| Benjamin Linden: | well three if you include clicking Ok on the teleport window | |
| Very Susanti: | especially for long lists | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | Very must time everything by 5 ;) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | but that was probably an issue before too, right? | |
| Tao Takashi: | [10:27] Juliet Ceres: it'S also hardly usable because groups and friends are in different tabs [10:28] Juliet Ceres: so you got two tabs which whould be one [10:28] Juliet Ceres: should | |
| Very Susanti: | hehe I include scrolling in the equations | |
| Wyn Galbraith hates scrolling. | ||
| Benjamin Linden: | so maybe a faster way to search your friends list? | |
| Tao Takashi: | right, we need text search in the history windows! :) | |
| Very Susanti: | I used to have the friends popup scaled to the window size so I could see a sizeable number of names at once | |
| Tao Takashi: | find-as-you-type | |
| Benjamin Linden: | yes, I agree Tao | |
| Very Susanti: | I can't do that with the current interface | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Okay. One special client for Wan where nothing will work without having to scroll ^^ | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Wyn even ^^ | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | I was thinking that just now, Tao, a search option for history. | |
| Torley Linden: | Heyhey everyone | |
| Tao Takashi: | Hey Torley | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | LOL Squirrel | |
| Lucky43 Babii: | hi | |
| Jurin Juran: | hey torley | |
| Very Susanti: | if you don't have many friends it isn't too big of an inconvenience but if you have a long list it is a pain to find someone | |
| Squirrel Wood: | Yellow Torley ^^ | |
| Very Susanti: | Hi Torely | |
| Jurin Juran: | yes, just have no friends | |
| Torley Linden: | i am being tremendously garish today. | |
| Tao Takashi: | search for friends would also be good | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | you look great, Torley. | |
| Tao Takashi: | I was wondering about that recently | |
| Tao Takashi: | also find-as-you-type | |
| Harleen Gretzky: | Hi Torley | |
| Tao Takashi: | like in inventory | |
| Squirrel Wood: | friend list.. make sure that window is activem then start typing the name you look for. ^^ | |
| Benjamin Linden: | yes, I think that's a good idea Tao | |
| Squirrel Wood: | you'll find it instantly | |
| Tao Takashi: | and I would also like to have context menus in the chatterbox for things like add friend, etc. | |
| Benjamin Linden: | god don't get me started about context menus | |
| Benjamin Linden: | we do a really bad job of standardizing them throughout the client | |
| Squirrel Wood: | there's room for improvement ^^ | |
| Very Susanti: | yeah that is a common complaint, in a lot of software packages | |
| Tao Takashi: | esp. for the things related to avatars.. there seems to be a different set of buttons/functionality all the time it feels sometimes ;_) | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | need THought Police ala old School Apple Computer | |
| Tao Takashi: | like in profile page, in friends list, in history etc. | |
| Tao Takashi: | Hm, old client here, cannot check ;-) | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | a team that reviews all interfacedesign against an established standard | |
| Very Susanti: | haha I have heard that one before | |
| Benjamin Linden: | yes, Saijanai, we want to get to the point where we have UI guidelines | |
| Benjamin Linden: | so we can apply consistent standards | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I'm working on that :-) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | the one man user experience shop | |
| Torley Linden: | i like the Apple Human Interface Guidelines in themselves, the tome is very neat and easy to read | |
| Torley Linden: | i know whenever Apple UI comes up people go, "Why the inconsistencies between Aqua and stainless steel appearance!?" tho | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | Jobs canned the Thought Police though, and it shows in the MacOS X interface | |
| Torley Linden: | haha Benjamin great way to put it | |
| Very Susanti: | and guidline don't matter if you can't really enforce them | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | Thing is, Jobs wanted to be the only Thought Police team member so he killed the concept | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Apple definitely has their own UI issues | |
| Very Susanti: | that is usually the issue enforcement and schedules | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | new interface sucks, in many wys | |
| Benjamin Linden: | I used to be a big mac user back in the day | |
| Benjamin Linden: | but then the real world forced me on to PCs | |
| Benjamin Linden: | and I never went back... :-) | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | they lost their timing on how to implement heirarchical menus... Speaking of which, there's some timing issues in the Mac version at least of the SL client | |
| Very Susanti: | haha yeah | |
| Tao Takashi went from Linux to Mac as it's also unix based but it does not have all that hassle with getting things running | ||
| Very Susanti: | I have tried to go back, but never managed | |
| Tao Takashi: | but then again I have windows, mac and linux running | |
| Tao Takashi: | windows mostly for SL as this is the biggest mahine | |
| Benjamin Linden: | well guys, Torley and I have a meeting now | |
| Very Susanti: | yeah for something like SL the only thing that really maters is driver support | |
| Benjamin Linden: | so we should wrap up | |
| Benjamin Linden: | thanks everyone for your feedback! | |
| Benjamin Linden: | good discussion today | |
| Lucky43 Babii: | ty | |
| Very Susanti: | thank you Benjamin | |
| Gao Niangao: | thanks, Benjamin | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | if you overshoot a drag and drop action, there's no puase required to open/close folders and other interface elements, so everthing pops on and off as fast as youmove themouse | |
| Tao Takashi: | thanks for hosting it :) | |
| Torley Linden: | good to see you all =) | |
| Harleen Gretzky: | ty Benjamin | |
| Torley Linden: | take care | |
| Harleen Gretzky: | ty Torley | |
| Wyn Galbraith: | As always thanks for the meeting. You and Torley have fun ;) | |
| Benjamin Linden: | Saijanai -- we're adding a "sleep" function to the inventory tabs to help with that | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | sounds good. | |
| Harleen Gretzky: | May I have a bear Benjamin? | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | BTW, was semi-serious about the SL 2.0 proposal. Some tings are goign to take forever with the current design | |
| Harleen Gretzky: | ty :) | |
| Saijanai Kuhn: | thanks | |
| Benjamin Linden: | bye guys, gotta run! | |