User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Jun 21

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Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[15:00] Wyn Galbraith: Afternoon Benjamin.
[15:00] Squirrel Wood: Hey Ben ^^
[15:00] Benjamin Linden: hi guys!
[15:00] Benjamin Linden: how are you?
[15:00] Wyn Galbraith: Greet.
[15:01] Wyn Galbraith: Great too.
[15:01] Wyn Galbraith is on the first look viewer.
[15:01] Benjamin Linden: glad to hear
[15:01] Squirrel Wood: The Prince of Mousethieves honors you, To visit here this day. So keep your larder door shut tight, Lock all your food away. O foolish ones, go check your store Of food so rich and fine. Be sure that I'll be back for more, Especially this wine.
[15:01] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[15:02] Wyn Galbraith: LOL Squirrel.
[15:02] Benjamin Linden: good to see you again Saijanai
[15:02] Benjamin Linden: glad to hear you're using first look Wyn
[15:02] Benjamin Linden: is this the first time you've had a chance to play with it?
[15:03] Saijanai Kuhn: is this area voice enabled?
[15:03] Wyn Galbraith: Recently.
[15:03] Benjamin Linden: no I don't believe it is yet
[15:03] Squirrel Wood: Heh. I don't like using voice so I'm not the best of candidates to test it ^^
[15:03] Wyn Galbraith: No it's not voice enabled. I'm not really using the voice, but I must say, I don't like the chat history being attached to everything else.
[15:03] Benjamin Linden: that's being fixed Wyn
[15:03] Wyn Galbraith: Oh cool.
[15:03] Benjamin Linden: it will be a tear-out window like the other IM windows
[15:04] Wyn Galbraith: I've almost accidently said things in chat I meant to IM to Squirrel ;)
[15:04] Wyn Galbraith: Would have been embarassing, she knows what I mean.
[15:04] Saijanai Kuhn: this morning zero linden ended up giving commands to one f his bots over main chat
[15:04] Benjamin Linden: yeah I've noticed myself having the same tendency
[15:05] Wyn Galbraith: LOL
[15:05] Squirrel Wood: hehe
[15:05] Squirrel Wood: Are we talking about Prokofy Wyn?
[15:05] Benjamin Linden: I think it will take people a while to get used to the new UI
[15:05] Saijanai Kuhn: Jeeves more cucumbers lease...
[15:05] Saijanai Kuhn: or something
[15:05] Wyn Galbraith: It's like channels on MU*, I always mischan.
[15:05] Benjamin Linden: but what we're trying to do is make it more streamlined and easier for new users
[15:05] Wyn Galbraith: Yeah.
[15:05] Wyn Galbraith: And his sister, Julsomething.
[15:05] Benjamin Linden: hey Stephany :-)
[15:05] Stephany Linden: howdy
[15:06] Squirrel Wood: That chap that shoots out questions so fast you can't follow anything but the topic he tries to force onto everyone?
[15:06] Wyn Galbraith: Oh another Linden, Welcome. I collect bears you know ;)
[15:06] otakup0pe Neumann: hello everyone
[15:06] Benjamin Linden: I hope you have a bear, Stephany! :-)
[15:06] Squirrel Wood: Hellos Stephany ^^
[15:06] otakup0pe Neumann: I'll take a bear.
[15:06] Stephany Linden: I have one from ben
[15:06] Wyn Galbraith: I think he puts them in an object, wears it and then dumps them out.
[15:06] Benjamin Linden: the generic one!
[15:06] Saijanai Kuhn: No, was this morning at Zero Lindens place. Don't think that Whaiswasthereatthatpointanyway...
[15:06] Wyn Galbraith can wait till it's filled out ;)
[15:06] Stephany Linden: no ben it had your little outfit spear
[15:06] Benjamin Linden: oh MY bear
[15:06] Benjamin Linden: :-)
[15:06] Neovo Geesink: Hello from Holland.
[15:07] Stephany Linden: YES
[15:07] Stephany Linden: hello holland
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: does anyone here not have my bear?
[15:07] Wyn Galbraith: I don't know if I got yours Benjamin.
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: I'm pretty sure I gave it to you Wyn but hang on
[15:07] otakup0pe Neumann: I'll take a bear ;)
[15:07] Wyn Galbraith has a special place in the clouds for LLBears.
[15:07] Saijanai Kuhn: raises hand...
[15:07] Wyn Galbraith: Pathfinder started it.
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: so while I'm doing that
[15:07] Neovo Geesink: No voce in this region?
[15:07] Wyn Galbraith: What was Stephany's question?
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: Stephany is the program manager working on the Voice chat project
[15:07] Squirrel Wood: I'm not much of a collector here
[15:08] Wyn Galbraith: Ah.
[15:08] Squirrel Wood: Nice to meet you ^^
[15:08] Stephany Linden: I can't believe I let you say that ben ;)
[15:08] Benjamin Linden: so we've been working together on the user interface aspects
[15:08] Wyn Galbraith: I guess I better get a new headset.
[15:08] Benjamin Linden: and I'm sure she'd love to hear some of your early thoughts on using the first look viewer
[15:08] Stephany Linden: I would
[15:08] Wyn Galbraith: Oh I thought you said earthy thoughts
[15:08] Stephany Linden: or those
[15:08] Benjamin Linden: lol
[15:09] Benjamin Linden: well I'm in Seattle so I am a little granola
[15:09] Wyn Galbraith: Well, I don't know how much I'll use the voice.
[15:09] otakup0pe Neumann: thanks benjamin
[15:09] otakup0pe Neumann: gah. i wanted to stay but i have to leave now.
[15:09] otakup0pe Neumann: woo timing. it's 1800 where I am.
[15:10] otakup0pe Neumann: I'll get you next time, gadget !
[15:10] Wyn Galbraith: Thanks Benjamin. Only because I mute my system 90 percent of the time.
[15:10] Stephany Linden: ahhh
[15:10] Wyn Galbraith: So it might become a problem for me if I'm around people who are using it. I don't know.
[15:10] Benjamin Linden: Yes, I'm still debating on whether to do my office hours in voice
[15:10] Wyn Galbraith: If you could log the voice I'd see no problem.
[15:11] Benjamin Linden: I'm leaning against it because it's easier to keep track of multiple conversations in chat
[15:11] Saijanai Kuhn: squirril, could y ou stand up just for a sec so someone can see your dress?
[15:11] Wyn Galbraith: Exactly.
[15:11] Benjamin Linden: we would need a conch shell to pass around :-)
[15:11] Benjamin Linden: so people don't talk over each other
[15:11] Stephany Linden: I agree - I can't wait for speech-to-text
[15:11] Stephany Linden: small project
[15:11] Very Susanti: Hiya everyone
[15:11] Benjamin Linden: lol
[15:11] Very Susanti: I vote for voice
[15:11] Benjamin Linden: hi Very! good to see you again
[15:11] Very Susanti: and of course watching the chat too
[15:11] Wyn Galbraith: Squirrel suggested a soap box with a 30 second limit for questions, or a talking stick.
[15:11] Stephany Linden: yes
[15:11] Very Susanti: in case I am in the coffee shop
[15:12] Very Susanti: lol
[15:12] Stephany Linden: good point!
[15:12] Very Susanti: some times it works best if only the leader uses voice and we type
[15:12] Very Susanti: I have done meetings like that
[15:12] Wyn Galbraith: Like right now, allergies have got me by the throat and lungs, so talking actually creates coughing.
[15:12] Benjamin Linden: we've gotten a lot of feedback about the communication window being too big and not being able to separate the chat history window
[15:12] Very Susanti: of course it makes the chat log not usueable or postable
[15:12] Stephany Linden: very: and you felt meeting slike that worked better?
[15:12] Benjamin Linden: and we're working to address those points
[15:12] Wyn Galbraith: Oh yeah, it's too big :)
[15:13] Stephany Linden: what sort of meetings - more social, business?
[15:13] Stephany Linden: just curious :)
[15:13] Saijanai Kuhn: thanks
[15:13] Very Susanti: community rountables
[15:13] Very Susanti: moderated meetings
[15:14] Stephany Linden: thanks
[15:14] Benjamin Linden: Very, there's a seat over here if you'd like to join us :-)
[15:14] Very Susanti: what about some kind of truetype font
[15:14] Stephany Linden: I wonder if we'll see more of that...
[15:14] Very Susanti: haha there
[15:14] Benjamin Linden: what do you mean about the font, Very?
[15:14] Wyn Galbraith: On another VR venue I found voice to be confusing because every one tried talk at the same time and background noises would slip through.
[15:14] Very Susanti: looks blocky at the small size
[15:14] Stephany Linden: wyn: turn taking is a tough thing in VR
[15:15] Stephany Linden: it's a huge challenge
[15:15] Stephany Linden: "active speakers" was one attempt, w/ head indicators, to help
[15:15] Stephany Linden: but they still fall short I think
[15:15] Very Susanti: yeah voice has limitations in big gatherings
[15:15] Wyn Galbraith nods, "No real visual clues."
[15:15] Stephany Linden: they don't stop overspeaking
[15:15] Stephany Linden: they SHOW it
[15:15] Stephany Linden: :)
[15:16] Very Susanti: there is a delay too, even if you are trying to be polite it takes time to get used to it
[15:16] Stephany Linden: yes
[15:16] Squirrel Wood: humm... I would suggest some sort of "talking stick" that the parcel/sim owner can activate that will only one person to speak ?
[15:16] Stephany Linden: good idea!
[15:16] Very Susanti: thinks back to talk
[15:16] Very Susanti: o
[15:16] Stephany Linden: I am personally annoyed by that especially :)
[15:16] Stephany Linden: we are re-examining permissions to try to improve them for parcel owners, etc.
[15:17] Stephany Linden: that could be one more way to tie visual cues and permissions in....
[15:17] Stephany Linden: *hijacking ben's office hours!*
[15:17] Benjamin Linden: I've been meaning to ask you about that, Stephany, it comes up a lot
[15:17] Benjamin Linden: no this is great -- we've been talking mostly about voice the past couple weeks
[15:17] Stephany Linden: hence the LONG feedback lists you bring back!
[15:17] Squirrel Wood: Mute all voice chatter except my friends ?
[15:17] Stephany Linden: YES - coming
[15:18] Very Susanti listens only to myself
[15:18] Benjamin Linden: are we doing that? even in-world?
[15:18] Saijanai Kuhn: automute people with voice toggle stuck on...
[15:18] Saijanai Kuhn: loud music griefing
[15:18] Squirrel Wood: auto mute people with an average noise level above X dB ?
[15:18] Stephany Linden: these are great
[15:18] Very Susanti: how often are people really going to use voice in high volume uncontrollable venues
[15:18] Benjamin Linden: on Tuesday Saijanai had an interesting suggestion which was to add an indicator in the chatterbox that shows people who don't have PTT on
[15:18] Wyn Galbraith: That would be nice.
[15:18] Stephany Linden: that's tricky but we ARE working on volume things
[15:19] Saijanai Kuhn: if someone is "entertaining" everyone with their music, it takes forever to figure out who they are
[15:19] Benjamin Linden: so you could hunt them down and mute them :-)
[15:19] Stephany Linden: we recently got the thin voice client improved so volume-driven events may be easier than before
[15:19] Benjamin Linden: Stephany one thing I noticed is that I don't hear *myself* in my headset when I'm talking, so it's very hard to gauge how loud I am
[15:20] Wyn Galbraith: It's a tremendous challenge and one that won't make everyone happy and even those who want it won't be happy.
[15:20] Benjamin Linden: have we considered piping the speaker's voice back to the client?
[15:20] Stephany Linden: we are working on the set up and tuner wizard
[15:20] Stephany Linden: it is almost done
[15:20] Stephany Linden: maybe next release
[15:20] Very Susanti: that could be confusing though
[15:20] Wyn Galbraith doesn't want to hear herself ;)
[15:20] Saijanai Kuhn: that causes a lot of echo if you don't have speakers. Probably needs to be optional...
[15:20] Stephany Linden: so you have a separate tool - right
[15:20] Squirrel Wood: I hate to hear myself talking delayed. It distracts me. I would suggest some form of local test mode to adjust the volume?
[15:20] Stephany Linden: so you DO NOT hear yourself most times unless you try
[15:20] Stephany Linden: squirrel: that's what it is
[15:21] Wyn Galbraith nods and thinks that's fair.
[15:21] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[15:21] Stephany Linden: then away it goes
[15:21] Stephany Linden: local volume feedback from you for set up and toggling
[15:21] Wyn Galbraith nodnods.
[15:21] Benjamin Linden: oh so we are doing that
[15:21] Stephany Linden: just late :)
[15:21] Stephany Linden: yes
[15:21] Saijanai Kuhn: how about a viewer plugin that allows voice filters? I have Logic pro for the mac and several other vodors
[15:21] Benjamin Linden: that will be in the tuning wizard?
[15:21] Stephany Linden: should have been in now but was hard
[15:21] Wyn Galbraith: Good :)
[15:21] Stephany Linden: we did NOT want it to go through the server b/c of load
[15:21] Stephany Linden: SO
[15:21] Squirrel Wood: vocoders ^^
[15:22] Stephany Linden: had to wait for TVC for local volume feedback (no server trip)
[15:22] Benjamin Linden: are we "faking it" in the client so it just goes straight from the mic out the speakers?
[15:22] Stephany Linden: ;)
[15:22] Stephany Linden: not fake - it's real but that's how it works now
[15:22] Benjamin Linden: lol
[15:22] Stephany Linden: thin voice client
[15:22] Stephany Linden: not server :)
[15:22] Saijanai Kuhn: would enable people to keep their male/female persona intact and allow better roleplay
[15:22] Stephany Linden: like a gateway
[15:22] Benjamin Linden: gotcha. I guess I should add that setting to the tuning wizard UI then :-)
[15:23] Wyn Galbraith: Thanks for thinking about roleplay.
[15:23] Very Susanti: so you are adding the voice changer stuff is that what you are saying?
[15:23] Stephany Linden: roleplay is a big concern
[15:23] Stephany Linden: I would LOVE to see a huge market of voice mods
[15:23] Squirrel Wood: frequency morphing ?
[15:23] Saijanai Kuhn: if you're drssed like Darth, you should sound like Darth
[15:23] Stephany Linden: by resis :)
[15:23] Benjamin Linden: no Very, this is a slightly different thing
[15:23] Benjamin Linden: we were talking about being able to hear your own voice in your headset
[15:23] Stephany Linden: right
[15:24] Very Susanti: is there notes or a blog somewhere?
[15:24] Stephany Linden: when that comes out
[15:24] Stephany Linden: we will have a blog
[15:24] Very Susanti: yeah I had heard that was apossibility, but more distant
[15:24] Stephany Linden: very close!
[15:24] Stephany Linden: :)
[15:24] Very Susanti: kewl
[15:24] Benjamin Linden: but not vocording right Stephany?
[15:24] Benjamin Linden: that's still a ways out
[15:24] Stephany Linden: right
[15:25] Stephany Linden: so for the "record"
[15:25] Stephany Linden: user volume adjustment- VERY soon
[15:25] Saijanai Kuhn: that should be a plugin. The real vocoders are commercial applications or parts thereof
[15:25] Very Susanti: so if you want to record you need playback capturing software
[15:25] Squirrel Wood: how about supporting VST instruments and filters for audio processing so one could have reverb, echo and stuff? ;)
[15:25] Stephany Linden: vocording: farther out
[15:25] Stephany Linden: good suggestion
[15:25] Benjamin Linden: ok thanks for the clarification
[15:25] Benjamin Linden: hi Bang
[15:26] Wyn Galbraith: Wow, that's impressive then. I didn't realize how far the voice would go.
[15:26] Benjamin Linden: Stephany, does voice get recorded in the movie recording feature in the client?
[15:26] Very Susanti: I suspect alot of roleplayers already have something to do voice changing
[15:26] Stephany Linden: not that I know of - I should verify
[15:26] Benjamin Linden: I'm not even sure if in-world sounds get recorded, does anyone here know?
[15:26] Wyn Galbraith: I've never gotten that feature to work so don't know.
[15:27] Very Susanti: yeah I haven't used that
[15:27] Very Susanti: I think it must cause of the machinima I have seen
[15:27] Benjamin Linden: guess we don't have any machina addicts here :-)
[15:27] Benjamin Linden: *machinima
[15:27] Saijanai Kuhn: For a lot of thse things, the OS already has such features. If the Clinet provides them, there should be a way to turn them over to the OS's native facility, wihc is often more sophsticated
[15:27] Wyn Galbraith: At least not one yet :)
[15:27] Very Susanti: they have correlated soundtracks, with walking and everything
[15:29] Benjamin Linden: hmm I wonder if we lost Stephany
[15:29] Very Susanti: hehe yeah
[15:29] Benjamin Linden: we definitely lost her hair :-)
[15:29] Very Susanti: yep
[15:29] Stephany Linden: I know!
[15:29] Squirrel Wood: Possibly...
[15:29] Wyn Galbraith: It happens even to Lindens :)
[15:29] Stephany Linden: oh YES
[15:29] Saijanai Kuhn: we need an LD sign for people
[15:29] Stephany Linden: and I need to rebake sometimes too
[15:29] Benjamin Linden: lol
[15:29] Saijanai Kuhn: link dead...
[15:29] Benjamin Linden: you look good bald :-)
[15:29] Benjamin Linden: very sinead o'connor
[15:29] Saijanai Kuhn: /em glad he didn't lose beard
[15:29] Very Susanti: haha even Philp crashes during meetings
[15:29] Wyn Galbraith: By the way, how do you get the client menu in the first look viewer?
[15:30] Stephany Linden: debug mode
[15:30] Stephany Linden: ctrl alt d I think
[15:30] Wyn Galbraith thought it was ctrl-D
[15:30] Benjamin Linden: the regular keys don't work?
[15:30] Very Susanti: yes
[15:30] Wyn Galbraith: oh the alt
[15:30] Squirrel Wood: Daniel crashed twice during his story hour today. the 2nd time he didn't return...
[15:30] Wyn Galbraith: There it is ;) thanks.
[15:30] Stephany Linden: we crash too
[15:30] Stephany Linden: :(
[15:30] Very Susanti: oops you missed your seat
[15:30] Stephany Linden: I see
[15:30] Benjamin Linden: your hair is blue now Stephany :-)
[15:30] Stephany Linden: I'm slooowww
[15:30] Stephany Linden: I know!
[15:30] Stephany Linden: like jeska
[15:31] Very Susanti: I went to one event, and despite three relog and numerous attempts I ended up sitting in the same woman's lap like 5 times
[15:31] Benjamin Linden: lol
[15:31] Very Susanti: eventually she just gave me her seat
[15:31] Benjamin Linden: so I have a question for those of you that've been using the first look viewer
[15:32] Wyn Galbraith: Guess I picked a good day to try the first look.
[15:32] Benjamin Linden: what are your thoughts on the speaker lists in the chat windows?
[15:32] Benjamin Linden: (other than them being too big)
[15:32] Saijanai Kuhn: need to be hidden on demand
[15:32] Very Susanti: I wish there was a way to seprate that off
[15:32] Wyn Galbraith: I like it and agree with Saijanai.
[15:32] Stephany Linden: one tear off is going in today
[15:32] Stephany Linden: we plan to do more
[15:32] Very Susanti: like there was before
[15:32] Saijanai Kuhn: all the info is useful SOME of the time...
[15:32] Stephany Linden: oh yeah - new first look today or tomorrow AM
[15:32] Benjamin Linden: do you mean the chat history window, Very?
[15:33] Squirrel Wood: humm... have the names colored differently depending on the proximity to you? ^^
[15:33] Very Susanti: woo hoo
[15:33] Very Susanti: wonder it it will make me crash
[15:33] Stephany Linden: a LOT of crash fixes went in
[15:33] Squirrel Wood: like... nearby people show in green, people not in the same sim... red
[15:33] Benjamin Linden: Saijanai, when you say all the info is useful some of the time, can you elaborate on that?
[15:33] Stephany Linden: this is great
[15:33] Very Susanti: maybe multiple sorting options
[15:34] Wyn Galbraith: Mean people should be red Squirrel, no matter how close or far they are.
[15:34] Saijanai Kuhn: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1144 very please vote
[15:34] Squirrel Wood: heh
[15:34] Very Susanti: ultimately it is not resizable and takes up too much realestate
[15:34] Very Susanti: but it is useful
[15:34] Squirrel Wood: the coloring could be done client side as the client sees who is in the same sim ?
[15:34] Very Susanti: and I happier overall with the chatterbox
[15:34] Saijanai Kuhn: concept of chatter box very useful. IMplementation details need work...
[15:34] Benjamin Linden: what specifically do you like about the chatterbox, Very?
[15:35] Stephany Linden: we are looking at resize sliders for that as well...
[15:35] Very Susanti: well lots of things, it is more concise than having a seperate history window open
[15:35] Saijanai Kuhn: does away with need for special colors for each goup in history window.
[15:35] Very Susanti: I have some pretty well used groups in my list and I have to read history to see the chatter
[15:36] Very Susanti: I like seeing who istyping too
[15:36] Wyn Galbraith needs the chat history separate.
[15:36] Very Susanti: yeah one size doesn't fit all that is for sure
[15:36] Squirrel Wood: On a totally different topic... if you have not yet voted for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-317 you may want to do so ^^ for a better SL ^^
[15:36] Wyn Galbraith: I like that friends and groups are separate lists.
[15:36] Saijanai Kuhn prepares his spam list of jira suggestions...
[15:36] Benjamin Linden: that's interesting Wyn, because we've gotten mixed feedback on that
[15:36] Very Susanti: I don't like that friends is no longer in a seperate popup
[15:36] Benjamin Linden: hi Dnate
[15:37] Benjamin Linden: good to see you again
[15:37] Dnate Mars: Hello
[15:37] Benjamin Linden: Very, what did you mean when you said you don't need different colored text for groups anymore?
[15:37] Very Susanti: I have a long list and I hate scrolling to see who I want
[15:37] Very Susanti: that wasn't me
[15:37] Wyn Galbraith: Really? I hated having to scroll down the group list to get to friends when in IM. So that's interesting. I don't like to scroll.
[15:37] Saijanai Kuhn: that was me. The history window doesn't show ANY thing about the source of text.
[15:38] Saijanai Kuhn: sparating it out dos away with a need with that
[15:38] Wyn Galbraith has maxed groups so is with Very on that.
[15:38] Very Susanti: oh yeah I like that group IMs show who is in the session
[15:38] Squirrel Wood: minimize the need to click and scroll. yep. ^^
[15:38] Benjamin Linden: so some of you think it's valuable to show the list of people participating in the chat?
[15:38] Squirrel Wood: Very much so
[15:38] Wyn Galbraith does.
[15:39] Very Susanti: I do, I just wish I could tear it out
[15:39] Stephany Linden: coming!
[15:39] Very Susanti: or dock it to the side
[15:39] Benjamin Linden: Very, when you say that, what specifically do you mean?
[15:39] Stephany Linden: that tear out I mean
[15:39] Very Susanti: I mean it take up alot of extra space
[15:39] Benjamin Linden: so if there was a way to hide it, would that work?
[15:39] Very Susanti: verticle space
[15:39] Stephany Linden: true
[15:39] Stephany Linden: it does
[15:39] Very Susanti: no usually I want to see it
[15:40] Squirrel Wood: humm.. would be nice to be able to start a private IM session by double-clicking on a name of such a list of participants
[15:40] Benjamin Linden: what would be a better location for it?
[15:40] Very Susanti: but hidding and resizing would be nice
[15:40] Very Susanti: to the side
[15:40] Saijanai Kuhn: votes for that for sure
[15:40] Very Susanti: like a toolbar
[15:40] Benjamin Linden: so that you could see more speakers, Very?
[15:40] Saijanai Kuhn: double-click for private chat thing
[15:40] Dnate Mars: I just want to state for the record that I hate the new "communicate"
[15:40] Very Susanti: and see more chat
[15:40] Wyn Galbraith: I've moved it all over the screen to try to place it somewhere good, but it's just ackward. I need a bigger monitor.
[15:40] Very Susanti: haha I have a 24" widescreen and I still feel cramped sometimes
[15:41] Benjamin Linden: I like the idea of doubleclicking to start private IM, I was just thinking about that earlier today
[15:41] Wyn Galbraith: Ben has a picture of my normal operating mode.
[15:41] Saijanai Kuhn has visions of an LCD monitor lowring from the celiling in his little computer alcove
[15:41] Very Susanti: also a teleport user button would be nice
[15:41] Wyn Galbraith: So in a sense it helped.
[15:41] Very Susanti: and a copy location slurl too
[15:41] Very Susanti: for the group IMS
[15:41] Very Susanti: but I mentioned that before
[15:42] Very Susanti: I was thinking to see if I could easiliy add that in myself, as my first open source project
[15:42] Benjamin Linden: some of these options are available in other places, like if you click the Profile button
[15:42] Saijanai Kuhn: copy/paste doesn't always work as you'd expect. IF I click on a landmark in my inventory, I should be able to copy/paste it into IM
[15:42] Saijanai Kuhn: the SLURL that is
[15:42] Very Susanti hates extra keystrokes
[15:42] Benjamin Linden: that's an interesting idea, Saijanai
[15:43] Benjamin Linden: so when you are looking at the speaker list, what information are you scanning it for?
[15:43] Very Susanti: copy an LM to a slurl in chat?
[15:43] Very Susanti: sounds very useful
[15:44] Very Susanti: well if it group chatter who is there
[15:44] Benjamin Linden: I'm trying to assess the value of the speaker list and how we can make it more useful
[15:44] Very Susanti: in regular chatter I see who is typing
[15:44] Very Susanti: I really like it for group IMs
[15:45] Squirrel Wood: yep. activity indication is definitely information that should be visible
[15:45] Saijanai Kuhn: the feedback for who is talking in the speach mode is less than useful if that is related
[15:45] Saijanai Kuhn: might just be a latency thing.
[15:45] Very Susanti: I remeber Yahoo voice which basically said who was speaking at the moment, but that won't work here I think
[15:46] Saijanai Kuhn: flashes to a kool bit of fluff...
[15:46] Benjamin Linden: currently it will light up the little icon next to your name when you're speaking
[15:46] Squirrel Wood: "The voiced babbling of <insert name here> was brought to you by <insert classified sponsor>" ^^
[15:46] Chat Parrot: Greeter script online.
[15:46] Saijanai Kuhn: IM private chat should give a picture of the person speaking along the lines of a comercial IM.
[15:46] Chat Parrot whispers: im private chat should give a picture of the person speaking along the lines of a comercial im.
[15:47] Chat Parrot whispers: Hello, Very Susanti.
[15:47] Chat Parrot: I mostly repeat everything you say.
[15:47] Chat Parrot: But if you ask nicely, I'll give you a kiss.
[15:47] Chat Parrot: Just say 'please give me a kiss'.
[15:47] Saijanai Kuhn: not just a little icon, but a thubmnail
[15:47] Benjamin Linden: of what Saijanai?
[15:47] Saijanai Kuhn: the avatar speaking
[15:47] Very Susanti: I haven't really been in a public space with lots of speakers yet, but I imagine the chatter box as it is right now would not help you to figure out who is talking
[15:47] Saijanai Kuhn: not in group chat, but private
[15:47] Benjamin Linden: what makes you say that Very?
[15:48] Very Susanti: well right now I see 5 names in my list without scrolling
[15:48] Saijanai Kuhn marvels at griefers that don't recognize last name of game company
[15:48] Benjamin Linden: ah so the issue is that you can't see enough names?
[15:48] Very Susanti: if we were in acrowd I may have trouble if the speakers were not in that 5
[15:49] Very Susanti: yes
[15:49] Benjamin Linden: ok
[15:49] Benjamin Linden: has anyone noticed the *separate* active speakers window that you can open from the Talk tab?
[15:49] Dnate Mars: I have
[15:49] Very Susanti: yes
[15:49] Benjamin Linden: thoughts on that?
[15:49] Very Susanti: lol but I fortgot about it haha
[15:49] Saijanai Kuhn ...missed it... blush
[15:49] Very Susanti: it is the same from the voice beta?
[15:49] Benjamin Linden: yes, similar Very
[15:49] Very Susanti: if so than it is very helpfull
[15:50] Benjamin Linden: in what regard?
[15:50] Squirrel Wood: I am a minimalist when it comes to UIs... have as much information displayed in the least amount of space ^^
[15:50] Very Susanti: cause it resorts by who is speaking
[15:50] Very Susanti: not only by distance
[15:50] Stephany Linden: true
[15:50] Benjamin Linden: the speaker list in Near Me does that as well
[15:51] Very Susanti: well but is also sorts on cat too or am I mistaken
[15:51] Very Susanti: chat
[15:51] Very Susanti: so it could get confusing in a mixed enviroment
[15:51] Zurg Ling: I'm confused
[15:51] Benjamin Linden: yes, it includes voice and text chatters
[15:51] Zurg Ling: How exactly does a noob go about getting money in this game?
[15:51] Very Susanti: for voice you need a voice only one
[15:52] Very Susanti: timing is very important in voice not so much in chatter
[15:52] Squirrel Wood: I'd like an option to have lists not shown in separate windows but mayhaps as a drop down list like you have in the chat history of the regular client
[15:52] Benjamin Linden: so do people find the combined list of voice and text chatters confusing?
[15:52] Very Susanti: also a longer list will make it easier to mute an offender quickly
[15:53] Squirrel Wood: obtaining money: a) Money Trees b) Camping chairs / dance pads; c) building/scripting and selling the products.
[15:53] Very Susanti: especialy if the focus switches
[15:53] Zurg Ling: Thank you
[15:53] Entering god mode, level 200
[15:53] Squirrel Wood: option d) purchase money (not recommended right now)
[15:54] Very Susanti: lol use SLX
[15:54] Benjamin Linden: Zurg, please stop dragging objects from your inventory
[15:54] Zurg Ling: I'm not...
[15:54] Zurg Ling: I have one object equipped
[15:54] Benjamin Linden: thanks!
[15:54] Very Susanti: and a particle emitter too
[15:54] Zurg Ling: Sorry, don't even know what that is
[15:54] Zurg Ling: Picked that up at a sandbox
[15:55] Benjamin Linden: that's ok, yeah it looked a griefer's toy :-)
[15:55] Saijanai Kuhn: dangerous things, sandboxes...
[15:55] Benjamin Linden: yeah you can pick up all kinds of nasty bugs in sandboxes
[15:55] Zurg Ling: like a horse?
[15:55] Zurg Ling: it won't let me ride it :(
[15:55] Benjamin Linden: Zurg, please refrain from attaching objects right now
[15:55] Very Susanti: lol looked like haha
[15:55] Benjamin Linden: thanks!
[15:55] Squirrel Wood shudders at the thought of sandboxes... griefers sound/particle spamming, orbitting, pushing, bullying... ^^
[15:55] Zurg Ling: kk
[15:55] Very Susanti: there are nice sandboxes out there
[15:56] Saijanai Kuhn: edu ilsand sandbox is almost completely empty, usually
[15:56] Very Susanti: I have been in a couple
[15:56] Benjamin Linden: back to the matter at hand, I just wanted to drill in a little more on this idea of a speakers list
[15:56] Wyn Galbraith: Hey, how about voice enabled sandboxes and then sandboxes where there's no voice.
[15:56] Very Susanti: well I think voice and chatter need to be treated differently
[15:56] Saijanai Kuhn: /votes
[15:56] Benjamin Linden: it sounds like the general concensus is that people want the lists to be longer
[15:57] Benjamin Linden: Very, can you explain what you mean?
[15:57] Saijanai Kuhn: to MAYBE be longer, when you need them...
[15:57] Very Susanti: one list priorities by coth chat and voice
[15:57] Benjamin Linden: and also to now show if you don't need the list
[15:57] Very Susanti: and one list only prioritized by voice
[15:57] Squirrel Wood: leave it to the individual whether they want one combined list or two separate ones?
[15:57] Very Susanti: and also a voice log of who spoke and when can be useful
[15:58] Benjamin Linden: ideally we could make it that flexible but what if you had to choose one or the other?
[15:58] Saijanai Kuhn: in the long run, voice recording, sorted by speaker...
[15:58] Very Susanti: so if you miss looking at the screen you may still be able to figure out who spoke
[15:58] Very Susanti: voice
[15:58] Benjamin Linden: you mean voice-only Very?
[15:58] Very Susanti: yes
[15:58] Benjamin Linden: so you would rather have a voice only list than a list that shows speakers and text chatters?
[15:59] Very Susanti: well I won't both
[15:59] Very Susanti: I want both
[15:59] Benjamin Linden: lol ok
[15:59] Benjamin Linden: want or won't?
[15:59] Very Susanti: and a chat spell checker too
[15:59] Very Susanti: hehe
[15:59] Benjamin Linden: lol but you had it spelled right :-)
[15:59] Very Susanti: hush
[15:59] Very Susanti: lol
[16:00] Saijanai Kuhn: contextual spellchecker builtinto client.
[16:00] Very Susanti: I like having two lists
[16:00] Benjamin Linden: what about others? thoughts on the combined speakers list?
[16:00] Very Susanti: one sorted only for voice
[16:00] Saijanai Kuhn: that adds spaces as needed, not to mention capitalization and grammar checking
[16:00] Very Susanti: and one sorted for both
[16:00] Very Susanti: but if I had to pick one I would pick voice
[16:01] Very Susanti: is it clear now?
[16:01] Saijanai Kuhn: yeah. Voice.
[16:01] Benjamin Linden: you would pick one for voice over a combined list?
[16:01] Very Susanti: absolutely
[16:01] Saijanai Kuhn: info of who is speaking is still contained in text message itself, right?
[16:01] Very Susanti: yes
[16:01] Benjamin Linden: no Saijanai
[16:02] Saijanai Kuhn: ...
[16:02] Very Susanti: you have a chat log, but what about a voice log I think that would be useful too so you could see who the last speakers were
[16:02] Benjamin Linden: the only indication of who's speaking is in the speakers lists
[16:02] Saijanai Kuhn: I meant for text chat.
[16:02] Benjamin Linden: there is an icon that lights up when you talk and fades away over time
[16:02] Benjamin Linden: yes, text chat is recorded
[16:02] Very Susanti: yes and if you drop your gaze you might miss it
[16:03] Benjamin Linden: the list also sorts by most recent speaker
[16:03] Saijanai Kuhn: this is still the text format, right? Benjamin Linden: yes, text chat is recorded
[16:03] Very Susanti: that would be an issue in a community meeting
[16:03] Saijanai Kuhn: so sort by text-chat is redundant
[16:03] Squirrel Wood: Is there a way to force the list to sort by alphabet instead of latest whatever?
[16:03] Benjamin Linden: yes Squirrel
[16:03] Benjamin Linden: you click the column header
[16:03] Squirrel Wood: good ^^
[16:04] Benjamin Linden: it doesn't resort by typer, only by voice
[16:04] Saijanai Kuhn: we arleady know who is typing from the message itself
[16:05] Very Susanti: while we are on a wish list I imagine if the speaker in chat was a clickable thing so you could say pull up a profile and mute quickly (like a hyperlink) it would good too
[16:05] Squirrel Wood: any differentiation between active participants and "silent listeners" ?
[16:05] Benjamin Linden: well not until the message appears, right
[16:05] Benjamin Linden: there is a profile button next to the list that you can click to get to mute
[16:05] Very Susanti: who is typing is not really as important as who is speaking
[16:05] Very Susanti: in chat?
[16:05] Benjamin Linden: there is also a mute checkbox for voice and text chat
[16:05] Saijanai Kuhn: they are both important but we already have feedback for typing
[16:06] Squirrel Wood: "silent listeners" referring to those who don't talk in the chat
[16:06] Benjamin Linden: in Group chat there's no feedback for typing, right?
[16:07] Saijanai Kuhn: not suing voice first look. Wasn't sure. DId you take out the name: message format?
[16:07] Benjamin Linden: it still shows what people type
[16:07] Benjamin Linden: just not while they're typing
[16:07] Saijanai Kuhn: that should be sufficient, I think. VOice speakers need more clear feedback than thye typers
[16:08] Squirrel Wood: lots of foodbags for you here today ^^
[16:08] Squirrel Wood: or was that feedback? :p
[16:08] Saijanai Kuhn: or maybe a "T" appears instead of the little sound symble and keep both in the same list...
[16:08] Benjamin Linden: I was noticing during this meeting that it was nice to be able to look at the list and see who's typing at the same time as me so I don't potentially overlap with someone else
[16:08] Stephany Linden: yes, and I so love transcripts
[16:09] Benjamin Linden: actually we imagined something very similar Saijanai
[16:09] Wyn Galbraith does too.
[16:09] Very Susanti: I agree, but voice is still going to present it's own unique problems
[16:09] Squirrel Wood: Just crash conveniently for no transcript ^^
[16:09] Benjamin Linden: lol
[16:09] Benjamin Linden: ok guys we're out of time!
[16:09] Benjamin Linden: thanks for coming, as always
[16:09] Benjamin Linden: great feedback today
[16:09] Squirrel Wood: time.. such a nasty thing!
[16:09] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[16:09] Wyn Galbraith: Thanks for the meeting, it was nice.
[16:09] Very Susanti: ok kewl thanks for having us
[16:10] Saijanai Kuhn: is amazing setup, this SL...
[16:10] Wyn Galbraith: Time you old gypsy man, will you not stay, put up your caravan just for one day ...
[16:10] Squirrel Wood: Always a pleasure seing things get done and discussed without one person hogging up all the precious time ^^
[16:10] Stephany Linden: thank you so much guys
[16:10] Stephany Linden: this is so helpful
[16:10] Wyn Galbraith: That too Squirrel.
[16:10] Squirrel Wood: Anytime ^^
[16:10] Benjamin Linden: thanks for coming Stephany
[16:10] Wyn Galbraith: We're available anytime.
[16:10] Wyn Galbraith: Though I was accused of coming to meetings just to hang out with Lindens.
[16:10] Squirrel Wood: you should do dual meetings more often ^^
[16:11] Stephany Linden: soon I'll stop barging in on ben's office hours and have my own
[16:11] Stephany Linden: cheers!
[16:11] Saijanai Kuhn: kool and great
[16:11] Benjamin Linden: take care everybody!
[16:11] Wyn Galbraith: Great.
[16:11] Saijanai Kuhn: bye
[16:11] Stephany Linden: bye