User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Jun 26

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	hi everyone
[10:12]	Joshua Sao:	hi!
[10:12]	Torley Linden:	Heyhey Ben!!!
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	so sorry for the delay
[10:12]	Jurin Juran:	hi ben
[10:12]	Torley Linden:	You finally made it in! w000t!
[10:12]	Harleen Gretzky:	Hi Benjamin :)
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	yeah login was soooo slow
[10:12]	Jurin Juran:	yeah
[10:12]	Squirrel Wood:	Helloo lil stinker XD
[10:12]	Joshua Sao:	sorry ben, I was trying to give my friend some info, may have droped you the card on accident
[10:13]	Joshua Sao:	they were having a problem getting IMs, but could send them fine
[10:13]	Wyn Galbraith was hanging out at Char's so sorry she's late ;)
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry just trying to get myself situated
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	cute av Torley
[10:13]	Wyn Galbraith has something to ask about the new communication window.
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	as always :-)
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	ah yes, the communication window :-)
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	sure, fire away Wyn
[10:14]	Torley Linden:	Thanks Benjamin, that Grendel's Children place is amazingly diverse.
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden decline Maximum Minimum updates from A group member named Maximilian Milosz.
[10:14]	Torley Linden:	Hehe communication window! =)
[10:14]	Wyn Galbraith:	Ok, I discovered while in a class that the scroll resets when you leave that window and return.
[10:14]	Wyn Galbraith:	So while working in a class sometimes you have to scroll back up to a spot.
[10:14]	Squirrel Wood:	don't you expect me to open the window just to communicate! There could be fresh air entering me domain! :p
[10:15]	Torley Linden:	BTW Benja did the blog comment get through?
[10:15]	Benja Kepler:	yes, it is now - thanks, Torley
[10:15]	Wyn Galbraith:	In the old chat history window the window would stay put at that line when you scrolled up.
[10:15]	Torley Linden:	NP.
[10:15]	Wyn Galbraith:	Hey Torley.
[10:15]	McCabe Maxsted:	ahoy
[10:15]	Wyn Galbraith:	Now it resets to the bottom.
[10:15]	Torley Linden:	Wyn, that sounds like a bug I'm familiar with.
[10:15]	Harleen Gretzky:	Only if no one else talks
[10:15]	Wyn Galbraith:	Was very annoying.
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	ah that's good to know Wyn, I'll have to check on that
[10:16]	Wyn Galbraith:	Do you have a bug number for it Torley?
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	I was about to ask if Torley knew about a bug for this
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	:-)
[10:16]	Torley Linden:	Lemme dig it up Ben... *digs* :D
[10:16]	Wyn Galbraith:	Makes taking classes a pain in the butt.
[10:16]	Torley Linden:	Wyn it sounds similar to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1230
[10:16]	Rt Tomsen:	hello
[10:17]	Wyn Galbraith finally has a real issue ;)
[10:17]	Squirrel Wood:	Woot! :p
[10:17]	Wyn Galbraith:	That's a little different, Torley, but might be related.
[10:17]	Joshua Sao:	I have a huge problem, according to the website I have been waiting over 30 years for my some to get voice chat
[10:18]	Joshua Sao:	as you can see in the pic
[10:18]	Tao Takashi:	Hi there
[10:18]	Joshua Sao:	I am wondering how much longer it is going to take
[10:18]	Joshua Sao gave you VoiceMapBug.
[10:18]	Joshua Sao:	for my sim* to get voice chat
[10:18]	Tao Takashi:	I just know that it's probably taking long for my sim as it's rather new
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	good catch Wyn
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Tao
[10:18]	Joshua Sao:	30 years is a long time to wait ya know
[10:19]	Wyn Galbraith is in first look voice now.
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	lol @ Josh
[10:19]	Tao Takashi:	me, too
[10:19]	Joshua Sao:	hehehe ^_^
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	interesting, is this a recent screenshot Joshua
[10:19]	Tao Takashi:	and I am still waiting for a keystroke to close the comm window again ;-)
[10:19]	Joshua Sao:	yes
[10:19]	Tao Takashi:	but maybe I should file a JIRA bug :)
[10:19]	Joshua Sao:	I took it last ngiht
[10:19]	Joshua Sao:	ngiht*
[10:19]	Joshua Sao:	err
[10:19]	Joshua Sao:	typonese
[10:19]	Rt Tomsen:	well i bought some land that took my money and did not deed the land to me
[10:19]	Torley Linden:	Oh rats, hit the wrong shortcut, TPed myself home
[10:19]	Squirrel Wood:	awww
[10:20]	Joshua Sao:	wb
[10:20]	Torley Linden:	Joshua part of the prob there I think is that the webmap and inworld map show different displays...
[10:20]	Jurin Juran:	lol
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	lol Torley
[10:20]	Torley Linden:	Sorry for sitting on you. I don't know what the voice rollout schedule is though.
[10:20]	Tao Takashi:	Torley experiences usability problems I think ;-)
[10:20]	Joshua Sao:	TOrley, look at the date in that pic
[10:20]	Torley Linden:	Tao: Every single day!
[10:20]	Tao Takashi:	poor Benjamin ,-)
[10:20]	Torley Linden:	Yeah that's definitely a bug Joshua, did you already report that in the Issue Tracker?
[10:20]	Squirrel Wood:	Yes. The inworld map does not show private sims unless you zoom pretty close in
[10:20]	Tao Takashi:	that's an old bug
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	yes that bug drives me nuts, Squirrel!
[10:21]	Tao Takashi:	or feature ;-)
[10:21]	McCabe Maxsted laughs
[10:21]	Joshua Sao:	nope, I haven't reported it
[10:21]	Rt Tomsen:	can anybody here me
[10:21]	Torley Linden:	For any bug, *especially* if you can reproduce it (and a screenshot helps), please make sure to report it... so it doesn't get lost
[10:21]	Joshua Sao:	ok
[10:21]	Torley Linden:	too many stray bits of information floating around... so it helps to keep a record.
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, Torley!
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	I frantically try to scribble down notes
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	but it's hard to keep track of everything
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	so it really helps if you guys file bugs for us
[10:22]	Wyn Galbraith:	On VWR-1230, do you think what I experience with the chat history window resetting the scroll to the bottom of the chat, is the same as this bug?
[10:22]	Joshua Sao:	so, you mean after waiting for 30 years I have to wait longer to get voice chat?
[10:22]	Squirrel Wood:	Wyn, it may be using the same code for that
[10:22]	Tao Takashi:	btw, is Robin back from vacation or was it 2 weeks?
[10:22]	Joshua Sao:	/ne sighs
[10:22]	Wyn Galbraith:	Ok, just making sure.
[10:23]	Rt Tomsen:	hello
[10:23]	Torley Linden:	Robin is back!
[10:23]	Joshua Sao sighs
[10:23]	Benja Kepler:	Joshua, is this 30 years due to zero UNIX date being 1970?
[10:23]	Squirrel Wood:	30 years means you may have to wait till SLs 30th birthday? ;)
[10:23]	Tao Takashi:	cool, then I will have one big question for her later :)
[10:23]	Torley Linden:	I talked to her yesterday, and good gosh there's another chipmunk loose in my house.
[10:23]	Joshua Sao:	lol
[10:23]	Tao Takashi:	regarding this interview by Philip and the filtering system
[10:23]	Benjamin Linden:	which filtering system is that Tao?
[10:24]	Rt Tomsen:	can some one please talk with me for a moment
[10:24]	Wyn Galbraith:	Quit saving nuts, Torley? Is it Chip or Dale
[10:24]	Joshua Sao:	Hi RT
[10:24]	Torley Linden:	Wyn: Hehe, I liked Rescue Rangers a lot.
[10:24]	Rt Tomsen:	hi
[10:24]	Wyn Galbraith knew Chip and Dale before Rescue Rangers ;)
[10:24]	Rt Tomsen:	i have a question i would like to ask and i will not take up much of your time
[10:25]	Tao Takashi:	Philip mentioned a filtering system in an interview in a german magazine which is supposed to be about that every RL country can define which laws apply to the RL residents in SL or something like that
[10:25]	Tao Takashi:	or can say that only people over 18 are allowed to register
[10:25]	Wyn Galbraith:	Ask RT.
[10:25]	Squirrel Wood:	(badly translated....) http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2F91623&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&safe=off&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
[10:25]	Joshua Sao:	Tao, the problem is enforcement
[10:25]	Tao Takashi:	of course I wonder how this can be done at all ;-)
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	ah yes, we're dealing with issues around how to be compliant with so many different country's regulations
[10:26]	Rt Tomsen:	i bought some land a few weeks ago and it took the money but never payed the owner for it so the land is not deeded to me
[10:26]	Tao Takashi:	and I wonder if those magazine people did just not understand what he was talking about ;-)
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	I haven't heard about the specific feature Philip described but Robin might know more
[10:26]	Tao Takashi:	because that means that you need to do verification right from the beginning
[10:26]	McCabe Maxsted wouldn't mind being economically overstimulated
[10:26]	Tao Takashi:	I posted an article on http://taotakashi.wordpress.com where I tried to translate it
[10:26]	Joshua Sao:	That bites Rt
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm also not too up to speed on our identity verification program but Daniel would be a great person to ask
[10:27]	Wyn Galbraith:	Daniel's meetings tend to get hijacked.
[10:27]	Tao Takashi:	esp. it would be mandatory then if they really need to enfore e.g. the 18 years thing. and what might happen if two people from two countries meet? which laws apply? ;-) but anyway, I will ask that later
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	hijacked by who, Wyn?
[10:27]	Rt Tomsen:	well the problem is that it is in my transactions and is asa land buy but i have submitted two tickets 2 weeks ago and have got no answer
[10:28]	Wyn Galbraith:	By business people with their own agenda.
[10:28]	Tao Takashi:	you just need to learn to ignore Prok, Wyn ;-)
[10:28]	Benjamin Linden:	by the way, before I forget, did everyone get the news that I moved Thursday's office hours to 3pm?
[10:28]	Jurin Juran:	LOL Tao
[10:28]	Wyn Galbraith:	Hard to ignore when he spams the chat and doesn't give anyone else a chance to ask anything.
[10:28]	Tao Takashi:	well, I managed to do it, just ask :)
[10:29]	Tao Takashi:	not that I got much information though but that's not Prok's fault
[10:29]	Tao Takashi:	Benjamin: I hope the google calendar is updated :)
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, I believe it is
[10:29]	Jurin Juran:	so thats a permanent time change benjamin?
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	right, that's the new standing time
[10:30]	Tao Takashi is checking now if Lindens are telling the truth :)
[10:30]	Joshua Sao:	Tao, the problem is if you look at LL as an ISP, they don't fall under the jurasdiction of all those countries, it wouldn't end well for users in one place being accused of doing things that are illegal somewhere else, it would be like germany telling you what you can't have on your website in the US even tho it's not illegal in the US
[10:30]	Wyn Galbraith:	If the calendar is updated I'll be fine.
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	we had an internal meeting on Thursdays that conflicted with my office hours
[10:30]	Tao Takashi:	indeed, he is, it's updated :)
[10:30]	Tao Takashi:	Joshua: I know the problems.. but it gets more difficulty if you have office elsewhere
[10:30]	Tao Takashi:	like flickr experienced recently
[10:30]	Tao Takashi:	and having offices elsewhere is a must IMHO
[10:31]	Rt Tomsen:	well does anybody have a answer to my question
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry, Rt, what was your question?
[10:31]	Tao Takashi shuts up now with non-usability topics
[10:32]	Rt Tomsen:	i bought some land and it took the money but never payed the owner i have submitted 2 tickets 2 weeks ago but no reponse
[10:32]	Rt Tomsen:	sorry to interuppt you
[10:32]	Benjamin Linden:	I have some good news regarding the chatterbox/communicate window. we're working on a vastly improved design that should address most of your concerns
[10:32]	Wyn Galbraith cheers!
[10:32]	Benjamin Linden:	Rt, you'll need to file a support request for that issue. Unfortunately I'm not able to help you with that.
[10:32]	Rt Tomsen:	i can't seem to get in to chat
[10:32]	McCabe Maxsted:	that's good news to hear. What will be changed?
[10:32]	Rt Tomsen:	don't know how i guess
[10:33]	Torley Linden:	I'm really glad to hear and follow along with the Communicate revamp a lot too...
[10:33]	Joshua Sao:	Ben, also check the transaction history in the SL website
[10:33]	Torley Linden:	exciting stuff seeing it influx and all the little details get refined.
[10:33]	Joshua Sao:	errr, Rt* also check the transaction history in the SL website
[10:33]	Benja Kepler:	Benjamin, the 'Near Me' list of names is very useful , especially in discussion like this - I hope that will stay?
[10:33]	Joshua Sao:	he might have gotten the money and made a mistake
[10:34]	Jurin Juran:	i like the chatterbox, just wish i could make the top section smaller
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, we're keeping the list of participants, but you will be able to hide it if you don't want to see it
[10:34]	Rt Tomsen:	ok ty you all
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	we hope to include the new design in next week's build
[10:34]	Torley Linden:	Lookin' forward to it!
[10:34]	Benja Kepler:	I find it useful to quickly look up profiles of people I don't know, or mute people near me I don't want to hear
[10:34]	Wyn Galbraith:	VEry cool.
[10:35]	McCabe Maxsted:	what is the range for the near me window?
[10:35]	Tao Takashi:	don't forget that key shortcut to close it again, please :)
[10:35]	Benja Kepler:	20m
[10:35]	Torley Linden:	Oh hmm I just noticed one thing, Benjamin -- is this already known about, the IM window's "Send" button isn't grayed out when there's no text in the input field.
[10:35]	Benja Kepler:	I think
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm glad you find it useful Benja
[10:35]	Joshua Sao:	in the Region/estate controls, with this new update today, the option to enable voice is now gone, is that coming back?
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, Tao, we're also working on keyboard shortcuts
[10:35]	McCabe Maxsted would very much like to have a close button in the lower right again
[10:36]	Wyn Galbraith loves Torley's dragon.
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm I'm not sure about that Joshua, are you looking in the current voice build?
[10:36]	Joshua Sao:	no
[10:36]	Tao Takashi:	great :)
[10:36]	Joshua Sao:	I am on the new update that came out today
[10:36]	Tao Takashi:	I guess the changes in the optional update will also flow into the new version then
[10:36]	Tao Takashi:	but great news, looking forward to see it :)
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	I'll doublecheck that later today Joshua
[10:37]	McCabe Maxsted:	will thre be a way to open chat history without dragging it out? When building I like to have it open, but I miniize it a lot when I need screenspace
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not using the new update yet
[10:37]	Joshua Sao:	ahh
[10:37]	Harleen Gretzky:	You only see enable voice if you are using First Look
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	that's what I was getting at, Harleen (and Joshua)
[10:38]	Squirrel Wood:	todays update would start to download, then stop at 48k downloaded and give me an error that something with my unchanged firewall settings is wrong and it could not download... :p
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	McCabe, you will be able to separate Near Me from the chatterbox if you prefer
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	Joshua, do you see the rest of the voice chat UI?
[10:39]	Harleen Gretzky:	Try downloading from the website directly
[10:39]	Joshua Sao:	no, I am not on the first look client
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	like the Talk button
[10:39]	Torley Linden:	Currently in the (115) build I'm able to see both the chat console/overlay and the IM window at the same time in First Look: Voice, which I find useful
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	ah ok, that explains why you don't see the enable voice checkbox then
[10:39]	Squirrel Wood:	website download worked. and auto download so far always worked - till today
[10:39]	Joshua Sao:	in the region/estate controls, I believe it was in the last client
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Torley, I forgot the tear-off Near Me feature went out already
[10:40]	Wyn Galbraith:	So the new viewer isn't requesting to be downloaded automaticily?
[10:40]	Joshua Sao:	Squiirel, I had the same problem with it today also
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	I believe it will automatically download the current production viewer, not first look
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	so you'll need to download first look directly from the website
[10:40]	Wyn Galbraith:	That will be great, tearing off the chat history. Cause I've miswindowed too many times
[10:40]	Tao Takashi:	ah, now I found out how to use the tear out of the near window :)
[10:41]	Torley Linden:	Benjamin: Yeah, actually, I didn't even tear off Near Me, this seems to behave more like earlier (non-Voice) versions -- it's just the old tranparent chat overlay showing at the same time while IM window is open.
[10:41]	Tao Takashi:	I was trying to grab the tab and drag it out ;-)
[10:41]	Tao Takashi:	didn't see the icon
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	oh I see Torley, I didn't know that went away
[10:41]	Torley Linden:	Yeah that was one of the frustrations.
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	McCabe you made a comment earlier about wanting to have the close button back
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	can you explain why?
[10:42]	Torley Linden listens
[10:42]	Wyn Galbraith:	I tired using the old viewer, Benjamin, to get the prompt to download the new viewer and it didn't work.
[10:42]	Wyn Galbraith:	*tried, not tired.
[10:42]	Benjamin Linden:	you should download first look from the website, Wyn
[10:42]	McCabe Maxsted:	because I'm a laptop. I often click back and forth between IMs, so it was handy to have a bigbutton to close it right there
[10:42]	Wyn Galbraith:	I got that. Is there a new one?
[10:43]	Wyn Galbraith is on 1.170(115) first look now.
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	you can use ctrl W to close an IM window
[10:43]	Torley Linden too
[10:43]	Tao Takashi:	an IM tab
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	right, a tab
[10:43]	Benja Kepler too
[10:43]	Torley Linden:	McCabe, do you have a particular difficulty using the shortcut keys?
[10:44]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm running 112 :-)
[10:44]	Tao Takashi:	but if I hit CTRL-W on the teared out Near window it closes and I jump to the friends list in the open comm window
[10:44]	McCabe Maxsted:	yes, remembering which ones work and don't, hehe
[10:44]	Torley Linden:	=)
[10:45]	Torley Linden:	I found that some of it was a matter of getting used to... I used to click Close button a lot myself before...
[10:45]	Torley Linden:	But I started trying Ctrl-W and eventually got used to that, hehe.
[10:45]	McCabe Maxsted smiles. Old habits, I guess
[10:46]	Torley Linden:	Yah!
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	our concern about the close button was that it was too close to the send button
[10:46]	Jurin Juran:	maybe they could be different colors
[10:46]	Jurin Juran:	red for close
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	and it duplicated the close button in the upper right of the screen
[10:46]	Benja Kepler:	are there other design changes in the viewer due? I saw that the German language viewer had to have a change on the profile window, for example
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	so it was taking up screen space
[10:46]	Torley Linden shouts: test
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	not sure about that Benja, can you be more specific?
[10:46]	Wyn Galbraith shouts: PASS
[10:47]	Wyn Galbraith sorries.
[10:47]	Torley Linden:	Heh no worries Wyn, just filing a bug.
[10:47]	Benja Kepler:	some of the German text doesn't fit on the windows - the Profile window has been widened
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	I see, yes we definitely have some issues with our localized versions
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	it's possible someone from open source checked in a fix to fit the german text
[10:48]	Tao Takashi:	btw, some people on the german SL forums want to create better translations for the german version. The question now is how to do that
[10:48]	Tao Takashi:	because honestly that translation is awful at some points ;-)
[10:49]	Benja Kepler:	bad transalations can cause more harm than good - perhaps Lime Tree Labs is aware?
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	lime tree labs?
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	Tao, the best way is to submit patches via the public Jira
[10:49]	Benja Kepler:	sorry, lol, the translation on that German article said Lime Tree Lab for Linden Lab
[10:49]	Torley Linden:	Haha Benja, I think I get that reference. ;)
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	we could talk more with Rob Lanphier about that in a separate meeting if you'd like
[10:50]	Torley Linden:	It's like that song with Numa Numa means "Love under the Lime Trees" I think
[10:50]	Torley Linden:	or "Love under the Linden Trees"
[10:50]	Squirrel Wood:	Humm. I could create a translation to a very specific german dialect spoken in Vienna, Austria :p
[10:50]	McCabe Maxsted:	haha
[10:50]	Tao Takashi:	Benjamin: the problem is that those people are no programmers.. they even don't know how to test it and wanted to send changes back and forth via AIM
[10:50]	Tao Takashi:	yep, maybe Rob should be included in that conversation.. and maybe Jean as she speaks german :)
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, we should loop in Jean and we have a new PM handling localization issues
[10:52]	McCabe Maxsted:	out of curiosity, has there been any consideration of redoing the friends list?
[10:52]	Benjamin Linden:	we would probably need someone slightly technical to capture those changes and put them in the XML
[10:52]	McCabe Maxsted:	the old viewer's list doesn't seem to fit well in the chatterbox
[10:52]	Benjamin Linden:	what part doesn't fit for you, McCabe?
[10:52]	Joshua Sao:	or even linking the friends list to AIM and Yahoo
[10:52]	Squirrel Wood tosses cookie crumbs at Torley :p
[10:53]	McCabe Maxsted:	well, I resize the window when I want to find someone online, then shrink it back whn I want to IM. It feels... cumbersome
[10:53]	Ashton Gufler:	Hey, Ben!!
[10:53]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Ashton
[10:54]	Benjamin Linden:	is it the height that doesn't give you enough room to list your friends?
[10:54]	Ashton Gufler:	I'm so glad to talk to you! did you get my IM?
[10:54]	McCabe Maxsted:	plus I would like an icon to be able to see who on my list has voice enabled or not; I need to make a feature request for that..
[10:54]	McCabe Maxsted:	yes the height
[10:54]	Tao Takashi:	Benjamin: that would be great. please let me know how you and jean might have time and I can coordinate with the german forums.. and maybe somebody is also technically inclined enough to handle it for them
[10:55]	Tao Takashi:	and I think they even changed the XML in their versions here and there
[10:55]	Tao Takashi:	just handling patches might be an issue
[10:55]	Benjamin Linden:	oh if they've already changed their XML then that's all we need
[10:55]	Tao Takashi:	esp. with many people
[10:55]	Ashton Gufler:	did you get my IM, ben?
[10:55]	Tao Takashi:	and some Linden support might be nice because right now everybody just does it on their own
[10:56]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure Ashton, I get a *lot* of IMs
[10:56]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, Tao, let's plan to get together on this. what's a good way to reach you?
[10:56]	Tao Takashi:	tao.takashi@gmail.com for example :)
[10:56]	Benjamin Linden:	ok
[10:56]	Ashton Gufler:	ben, here's the IM i sent you: [10:49] Ashton Gufler: hey ben, have you heard about the LONG login times to login to the viewer?
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	ah yes, Ashton, that's being worked on
[10:57]	Tao Takashi:	maybe just make a time proposal in some german timeframe :) german evening like right now is probably best
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	darn we lost McCabe
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	I wanted to ask him more about the friends list
[10:57]	Joshua Sao:	My problem with the IM list is it's not custom enough, I have had almost 300 people on my list and couldn't remeber why I put half of the mon there or what for. It would be nice to be able to have different groups in the IM list where I could catergorise the contacts. Also, while Running SL I usualy have AIM,Yahoo and MSN running, it would be nice if the SL client could connect to those networks and have a universal friends list
[10:57]	Torley Linden:	Ben and I both experienced that firsthand, Ashton. =)
[10:57]	Torley Linden:	Ahhh yes Joshua, Ben and I have had some related convos to that...
[10:57]	Wyn Galbraith has too.
[10:57]	Torley Linden:	re: Friends vs. Calling Cards specifically.
[10:58]	Joshua Sao:	yeah, and having to delete the calling card after you already deleted the friend, why the extra step?
[10:58]	Tao Takashi never used calling cards
[10:58]	Tao Takashi wants a real address book
[10:58]	Ashton Gufler:	hi, torley! i LOVE your office and website!
[10:58]	Benjamin Linden:	I would like to see us move away from calling cards
[10:58]	Torley Linden:	Yes, it's basically crufty because the current Friends system is build atop an older way of doing things... it's confusing.
[10:58]	Benja Kepler:	if the calling cards could be accessed in script, then a link to the web could be made?
[10:58]	Torley Linden:	Thanks Ashton, very nice of you.
[10:58]	Torley Linden:	I totally agree with Ben. =o)
[10:59]	Benjamin Linden:	and we have had many requests for organizing friends into folders, which I think it a great idea
[10:59]	Tao Takashi:	Address books with groups
[10:59]	Benjamin Linden:	also, we should add a search bar to the top of the friends list
[10:59]	Tao Takashi:	but let me put one friend into many groups please :)
[10:59]	Benjamin Linden:	ah see now you ask too much Tao :-)
[10:59]	Squirrel Wood:	calling cards you give out to people you want to be able to contact you but don't want on your friend list?
[10:59]	Tao Takashi:	it's one additional table in mysql ;-)
[11:00]	Ashton Gufler:	torley, I'm glad you accepted my friendship offer.
[11:00]	Torley Linden:	:)
[11:00]	Tao Takashi:	I think I was friended with Torley once, too ;-)
[11:00]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm worried about the UI, Tao :-)
[11:00]	Tao Takashi:	open Thunderbird and look at an UI for that ;-)
[11:00]	Torley Linden:	Yes, pardon, I love having Friendships but the current system has been unscalable for me so periodically I delete them all. (As it says on the wiki page linked to from my profile.)
[11:00]	Wyn Galbraith has a few Lindens on her friend list.
[11:00]	Tao Takashi:	Torley needs groups, too ;-)
[11:01]	Squirrel Wood:	I would like the friend list to show entries that have not logged in for 6 months or longer in a different color...
[11:01]	Wyn Galbraith:	I never delete them though I may turn off he ability to see me online for the ones I don't remember why they're there.
[11:01]	Ashton Gufler:	i've got people i gotta get back to. ben, i hope we can continue to stay in touch.
[11:01]	Torley Linden:	Have a good one Ashton
[11:01]	Ashton Gufler:	ok, torley
[11:01]	Tao Takashi:	ok, now I have the choice of two office hours, too bad ;-)
[11:01]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for stopping by Ashton~
[11:01]	Benjamin Linden:	!
[11:02]	Benjamin Linden:	what do you mean, Tao
[11:02]	Harleen Gretzky:	I put a blerb in My Notes about why they are on my friend list so I remember
[11:02]	Tao Takashi:	well, an in-promptu discussion and Robin's hours are up now
[11:02]	Benja Kepler:	good idea, Harleen
[11:03]	Squirrel Wood:	Robin at 11... and oogle calendar sez 11:30
[11:03]	Tao Takashi:	that means I am off then and I need to be able to divide my avatar in a future versin :)
[11:03]	Wyn Galbraith:	Robins are at 11:30 from the calendar.
[11:03]	Tao Takashi:	ok, then it has moved..
[11:03]	Tao Takashi:	ok, then cya later! :) thanks for hosting again, Benjamin, always good :)
[11:04]	Wyn Galbraith:	Yep.
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	ok folks, thanks for stopping by!
[11:04]	Squirrel Wood:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours and http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=mvktahmo6mjpvpkkkdnmabmghg%40group.calendar.google.com do not match up
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	great tos ee you all
[11:04]	Wyn Galbraith:	Thanks Benjamin, Torley.
[11:04]	Squirrel Wood:	cyas Ben, Torley ^^
[11:04]	Wyn Galbraith:	Always a pleasure.
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	Cya Squirrel :)
[11:04]	Tao Takashi:	waiting for some meeting proposal then :)
[11:04]	Squirrel Wood:	Been a lot of fun again ^^
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	Have a good one everyone
[11:04]	Joshua Sao:	one Idea I had (looksing at SL as an upgrade to the current internet) is why not have HD space users can rent for any files they want to put up and trade? Being limited by the types of files is irritating when I wasnt to send out a MS word doc to someone without having my IP address in an e-mail
[11:04]	Tao Takashi:	ok, cya! :)
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	Squirrel: We encourage Lindens to add themselves to both, but -- changing the Gcal is more inconvenient
[11:04]	Wyn Galbraith wears Torley Texture on her pants.
[11:05]	Torley Linden:	Wyn that totally explains why it looks so familiar. :)
[11:05]	Torley Linden:	Hehe.
[11:05]	Torley Linden:	Thanks!
[11:05]	Squirrel Wood:	build your own calendar?
[11:05]	Squirrel Wood:	shouldn't be all that hard to do ^^
[11:05]	Wyn Galbraith:	No thank you.
[11:05]	Torley Linden:	Squirrel: We use Gcal for a lot of things, but getting everyone to set their stuff uniformly tends to be tough
[11:06]	Wyn Galbraith:	It's "Meant to be Camo"
[11:06]	Torley Linden:	Yeah totally Wyn I was inspired by jungles...
[11:06]	Torley Linden:	that movie Platoon...
[11:06]	Torley Linden:	and Tank Girl
[11:06]	Squirrel Wood:	humm... give them a siimple interface where they just mark their hours ?
[11:06]	Wyn Galbraith:	I love it.
[11:06]	Benja Kepler:	I gotta go - time for Tea!
[11:06]	Benja Kepler:	bye all
[11:06]	Squirrel Wood:	like a simple table with a 24 hour shedule per each day?
[11:06]	Wyn Galbraith:	I might make something for my other avatar look from it.
[11:06]	Torley Linden:	Have a good one all, bye for now. :)
[11:06]	Squirrel Wood:	Meep
[11:06]	Wyn Galbraith:	Bye