User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Jun 7

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[10:07]	Very Susanti:	good morning Benjamin
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	good morning
[10:07]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	Hi Benjamin
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Lufpleh!
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	how is everybody doing?
[10:08]	Very Susanti:	sleepy
[10:08]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	good, laughing as usual
[10:08]	Very Susanti:	didn't make it to the coffee shop yet lol
[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	what part of the world are you in Very?
[10:09]	Very Susanti:	Ga
[10:09]	Very Susanti:	yeah I know lazy morning
[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	those are nice though
[10:09]	Very Susanti:	I was out late haha
[10:09]	Very Susanti:	yeah when I am working usually in by 7
[10:10]	Very Susanti:	blah
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	Lufpleh, is this the first time you've attended office hours?
[10:10]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	i was here last week
[10:10]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	you were kinda swamped
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	There was a big crowd :-)
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	welcome back!
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	not so many folks today :-)
[10:11]	Very Susanti:	maybe just comin late
[10:11]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	i was wondering about the design of the chatterbox on the beta grid
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	yeah, they probably got used to me always being late :-)
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	sure, Lufpleh, what's your question
[10:13]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	well was wondering if the way it looks now is the way its going to stay or is that just a beta window to test things
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	that's definitely a beta version
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	I've gotten lots of feedback that it's too big
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	for one thing
[10:13]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	thank goodness for that :)
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	do you have any other feedback on it?
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Arcane
[10:14]	Arcane Laval:	Heyy
[10:14]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	mmm, a couple of things
[10:14]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	obvious one
[10:14]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	you press a "communicate" button to open a "chatterbox"
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	Ok yes, that will change
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	Chatterbox was intended to be an internal name
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	but it slipped out :-)
[10:15]	Very Susanti:	some chatterbox slipped it I s'pose
[10:15]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	when you have the chatterbox open you can actually have to chat boxes where you can type text
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	we sort of like calling it that but it won't translate well
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	lol @ Very
[10:15]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	*two
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	right, how do you feel about that Lufpleh?
[10:16]	Very Susanti:	yes I can see now all the corny jokes we will be subjected too for years and years if the name slips out
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	good point Very
[10:16]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	having two chat boxes, not good, just makes focus more difficult
[10:17]	Very Susanti:	yes and it will increase the likeyhood of mixing chat
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	do you mean in terms of deciding where to type?
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	what do you mean, Very?
[10:17]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	yes then add a few IM boxes and easy to get lost
[10:17]	Very Susanti:	typing into the wrong place
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	so you think you're typing in-world but you're actually typing to someone else in IM?
[10:18]	Very Susanti:	I have seen a number of very big chat faux pas lately
[10:18]	Very Susanti:	yeah
[10:18]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	would be easy done
[10:18]	Very Susanti:	or the your not really in chat dance
[10:18]	Very Susanti:	love that one
[10:18]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	should be one place to type chat txt inworld
[10:18]	Very Susanti:	especially if you type a lot of e's
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	e's?
[10:18]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	if you enable the one in chatterbox, disable the main chat box on bottom of screen
[10:18]	Very Susanti:	makes you jump
[10:19]	Very Susanti:	haha
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	oh you mean the avatar movement keys
[10:19]	Very Susanti:	yes
[10:19]	Very Susanti:	I am surprised they are active while you can still see a chat line
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	the thinking behind having it in the chatterbox is that you could close the chat bar at the bottom if you wanted to
[10:20]	Very Susanti:	what would make it most convenient if those chat boxes could be in seperate widnows
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	there will be an options menu in the "Near Me" tab of the chatterbox, maybe we could add an option to hide/show the chat input field
[10:20]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	mm, i just found it confusing have x2 places where you cna do the same thing
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Ayaki
[10:20]	Very Susanti:	the way most IM profgrams work
[10:20]	Very Susanti:	programs
[10:20]	Ayaki Oyen:	hi
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	you can tear out the windows, Very
[10:20]	Very Susanti:	Hi Ayaki
[10:21]	Very Susanti:	out of the main window?
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	oh you mean out of the main SL window?
[10:21]	Ayaki Oyen:	Hello !
[10:21]	Very Susanti:	yes
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	you can tear it out of the chatterbox but not the main window
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	there are technical reasons why you can't have windows floating outside the main SL window
[10:21]	Very Susanti:	if you tear out too many windows in the sl window you can't see anything
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	we would like to do that eventually
[10:22]	Very Susanti:	of course I have written GUI applications before
[10:22]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	sure it will be tidied up as you go, but the area with the volume slider is huge
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	to the right of the speakers list?
[10:22]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	yes
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, we need to work on the layout of the chatterbox some more
[10:23]	Benjamin Linden:	also, there will be an ability to hide/show that upper panel
[10:23]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	quite a lot i think
[10:23]	Benjamin Linden:	so you can just see chat history
[10:23]	Very Susanti:	there is another way to approach this too, making the field of view change like being able to set a camera focal length
[10:23]	Very Susanti:	but yes cluttering up the ui is an issue
[10:24]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure what you mean about focal length, Very
[10:24]	Very Susanti:	field of view angle then
[10:25]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	do you mean like UI setting in prefreances, where u can scale
[10:26]	Very Susanti:	zoomin in and out by moving your camera doesn't work well in a place with lots of obstacles
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	is this a separate issue from the chatterbox UI?
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	or is it related somehow?
[10:26]	Very Susanti:	that just sets the text size right?
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	hello Anac
[10:27]	Very Susanti:	well it is a general issue about dealing with UI realestate issues
[10:27]	Very Susanti:	another tool that could alleviate the one window issue
[10:27]	Very Susanti:	and of course it would be a great tool too, especially for building or working in a small space
[10:28]	Benjamin Linden:	is it similar to the UI scale setting in preferences, as lufpleh brought up?
[10:28]	Benjamin Linden:	does anyone here use that setting?
[10:28]	Very Susanti:	um maybe if you tell me where
[10:29]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	yes, set at .875
[10:29]	Very Susanti:	there are a bunch of settings I don't understand
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Phli :-)
[10:29]	Phli Foxchase:	Hello :)
[10:29]	Very Susanti:	I see the UI size
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	that's completely understandable, Very. we need to clean up preferences
[10:29]	Very Susanti:	I always set that to the min
[10:30]	Very Susanti:	ohh a bunny
[10:30]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	shrinks the buttons and enables me to reduce the size of inventory window just that little bit more, clearing rest of screen :)
[10:30]	Very Susanti:	yes I use that
[10:30]	Very Susanti:	but the angle of view would affect the 3d redering
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	right, that makes sense
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	how would that help you Very
[10:30]	Very Susanti:	I don't think you guys have that
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	Phli, how do you accomplish that halo effect around your av?
[10:31]	Very Susanti:	do you take pictures with a camera?
[10:31]	Very Susanti:	ever use a wide angle lens
[10:31]	Phli Foxchase:	I don't know, I just bought it ;)
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	no I've never used a wide-angle lens
[10:31]	Very Susanti:	to work in a small space
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	haha ok, Phli
[10:31]	Very Susanti:	well how about a zoom lens
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	oh like when people take pictures for real estate websites
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	with a fish eye lens?
[10:31]	Very Susanti:	yes
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	I see
[10:32]	Very Susanti:	yes that is a good example
[10:32]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Zip
[10:32]	Zip Furse:	Hello
[10:32]	Phli Foxchase:	I have a question : when do you think to release a new UI ?
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	Phli, what do you mean by new UI?
[10:34]	Phli Foxchase:	I'm french and the UI is not easy to use
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	because of the language?
[10:35]	Phli Foxchase:	lot of words are not translate
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	ah yes, this is definitely a problem
[10:35]	Very Susanti:	oh I know what would be nice a UI health meter so I know if I am still connected or not. So I don't have to figit to know if I am logged out when things get quiet.
[10:36]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	i use the mini map for that
[10:36]	Very Susanti:	how does that work?
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	we are working with some companies to help us with our translations
[10:36]	Phli Foxchase:	ok
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	so hopefully in the near future that will get better
[10:36]	Very Susanti:	I have tried cntl-shift-1 too
[10:36]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	well if green dots stop moving or the colour changes, your out
[10:36]	Phli Foxchase:	but can the fench community give some help somewhere ?
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	the mini-map sometimes turns red when you get disconnected
[10:37]	Zip Furse:	as in like making entries auto translated?
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	but yes, it would be nice if there was better feedback for that
[10:37]	Very Susanti:	lol @ sometimes
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	lol, I don't really know why it's only sometimes
[10:37]	Very Susanti:	works by coincidense
[10:37]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	normal does change if sim or neighbouring sims go down
[10:38]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	I find it pretty reliable
[10:38]	Very Susanti:	I will keep an eye on it
[10:38]	Very Susanti:	I usually try to hide as many things as possible
[10:39]	Very Susanti:	even with a 24" widescreen sometimes I still feel cramped in my window
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	I agree, Very, we don't do a very good job of helping the user manage the interface
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	we have some long-term goals to improve that
[10:40]	Very Susanti:	well I wouldn't say that I think the interface is not bad
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	docking UI and things like that
[10:40]	Very Susanti:	but they are not as well understood as 2D ones
[10:41]	Very Susanti:	I mean this is a new space
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	that's true, there are some tough problems to solve
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	that's why I like talking to you guys to get your help and feedback :-)
[10:41]	Very Susanti:	other 3D tools are different cause you are not present in those spaces
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	right
[10:41]	Very Susanti:	but multiple widows in my opinion is a biggie
[10:42]	Benjamin Linden:	I had someone comment to me recently, why does the avatar need to be there when you're building
[10:42]	Benjamin Linden:	and I said, well because YOU are there so your avatar has to be there
[10:42]	Very Susanti:	and camera field of view or call it zoom angle as opposed to zoom position
[10:42]	Very Susanti:	it should be a primary camera tool
[10:42]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	if space is an issue it seems strange to expand/stretch the buttons on the bottom of the window as you have on the beta
[10:43]	Micha DeCuir:	ty love
[10:43]	Very Susanti:	also moving sideways would be nice too
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	what do you mean, Lufpleh?
[10:43]	Very Susanti:	well I have multiple screens too
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	they may appear expanded because there are fewer of them
[10:43]	Jelena DeVinna:	hello all
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Jelena!
[10:43]	Phli Foxchase:	Hello !
[10:43]	Micha DeCuir:	yep, hi all
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Jelly
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	and Khamon
[10:44]	Benjamin Linden:	I didn't see you guys show up
[10:44]	Khamon Fate:	I just showed up
[10:44]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	the number off buttons on the beta has been reduced, IM and FRIENDS combined to make COMMUNICATE, the other buttons have been stretch to fill the gap
[10:44]	Jelena DeVinna:	happens some time lol
[10:45]	Benjamin Linden:	that's right, Lufpleh, we weren't at a point where we could completely redesign the main toolbar
[10:45]	Benjamin Linden:	currently it's designed to expand to fill the space at the bottom but that's not a great use of space, we realize
[10:45]	RockerNyufi Babii:	Hey
[10:45]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	:)
[10:45]	RockerNyufi Babii:	whats up? P:
[10:45]	Benjamin Linden:	especially as monitors get bigger
[10:46]	Very Susanti:	I suppose there are two broad catagories of areas of improvement 1) the 3D window itself and 2) the UI components
[10:46]	RockerNyufi Babii:	hm
[10:46]	RockerNyufi Babii:	x)
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	right, Very
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	I've spent more time thinking about the UI componenets
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	components
[10:46]	Very Susanti:	the UI components compete for screen space with the 3D widows
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	but we definitely need to spend some time thinking about the 3d aspects as well
[10:46]	Jelena DeVinna:	wel don't know if we are right here but i have a prop with prims that i did delete but seem to be still there (invisible) and now way to select them
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Rocker
[10:47]	Very Susanti:	but improving in either area will alleviate some of the impact to the other area
[10:47]	Benjamin Linden:	Hi Jelena, have you filed a support request for your problem?
[10:47]	Benjamin Linden:	that's true Susan and ideally we'd think about the two problems together
[10:47]	Jelena DeVinna:	yes is did but get no support ticket back to
[10:47]	Very Susanti:	Susan?
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	hey bub
[10:48]	Bub Linden:	What's shakin, B-dawg?
[10:48]	Bub Linden:	It's ok everyone, daddy is here now.
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	chillin with the residents :-)
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	everybody, this is Bub Linden
[10:48]	Bub Linden:	Wrd. Hey gang.
[10:48]	Jelena DeVinna smiles
[10:48]	Micha DeCuir:	Hi bub
[10:48]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	Hi Bub
[10:48]	Bub Linden:	'Ello :)
[10:49]	Very Susanti:	Hiya Bub
[10:49]	Jelena DeVinna:	hi bub
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	we were just discussing how there are two problem areas with our UI: the 3d interaction part and the 2d UI components
[10:49]	Phli Foxchase:	this issue (deleting items reùmaining in world) is on JIRA : https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-242
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	and how it's important to solve problems thinking about both of them together
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for the Jira link Phli
[10:49]	Jelena DeVinna:	hehe ty
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	are you an open source developer Phli?
[10:50]	Phli Foxchase:	no :)
[10:50]	Bub Linden:	Word, thanks Phli.
[10:50]	Bub Linden:	Ahh I see.
[10:50]	Bub Linden:	I think this has happened to me a few times.
[10:50]	Bub Linden:	:)
[10:51]	Phli Foxchase:	Iwould love to see a new filter in the inventory tools: "worn"
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	that's a great idea Phli
[10:51]	Bub Linden:	Great avatar as well, Phli.
[10:51]	Phli Foxchase:	thank's =)
[10:51]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	i just type "worn" in text field
[10:52]	Phli Foxchase:	yes but new residents don't know that
[10:52]	Arcane Laval:	Sorry was on the phone, hi Bub. lol
[10:52]	Phli Foxchase:	a filter could be easy
[10:52]	Bub Linden:	Hello, Arcane.
[10:52]	Bub Linden:	Phli has a point.
[10:52]	Arcane Laval:	I like that idea
[10:52]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	lo, new residents dont know about filter :)
[10:52]	Benjamin Linden:	there's so much we can do with Inventory
[10:53]	Benjamin Linden:	Phli, have you seen the inventory design discussion on the public wiki?
[10:53]	Very Susanti:	yeah inventory is a hot bed I think
[10:53]	Bub Linden:	Well said :)
[10:53]	Benjamin Linden:	especially when people have 50000+ inventory items!
[10:54]	Benjamin Linden:	let me get that link so people can look at it, hang on
[10:54]	Phli Foxchase:	no sorry, this not easy cause I 've a bad english :)
[10:54]	Arcane Laval:	Yeah and most have organising issues lol
[10:54]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	i would hate to clear chache with 50k items
[10:54]	Very Susanti:	lol
[10:55]	Very Susanti:	I might be close to something like that with all my textures and stuff
[10:55]	Benjamin Linden:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Inventory_UI_Design
[10:55]	Phli Foxchase:	ok
[10:55]	Benjamin Linden:	You're english is better than many Americans I know, Phli :-)
[10:56]	Benjamin Linden:	you all should feel free to hop in there and add your own comments to the wiki
[10:56]	Jelena DeVinna:	oke we are away ty and hope to cu all again :)
[10:56]	Phli Foxchase:	ok
[10:56]	Micha DeCuir:	bye to all and have a nice day
[10:56]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for coming, Jelena and Micha!
[10:56]	Phli Foxchase:	bye :)
[10:57]	Bub Linden:	Nice seeing you all :)
[10:57]	Arcane Laval:	Bye!
[10:57]	Bub Linden:	Thanks for letting me crash, Benjamin.
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	sure thing Bub, thanks for stopping by
[10:58]	Benjamin Linden:	we're just about out of time, did anyone else have anything they wanted to discuss?
[10:58]	Phli Foxchase:	By the way, do you have Linden Bears ?
[10:58]	Phli Foxchase:	:)
[10:58]	Benjamin Linden:	or ideas to talk about next week?
[10:58]	Phli Foxchase:	thank you
[10:59]	Phli Foxchase:	could you send one to my friend Belzebut Ulysses ?
[10:59]	Arcane Laval:	Thanks!
[10:59]	Phli Foxchase:	it would be so nice
[10:59]	Very Susanti:	thanks
[10:59]	Benjamin Linden:	here's another one Phil, you can give it to your firend
[10:59]	Ayaki Oyen:	thanks!
[10:59]	Phli Foxchase:	thank you very much
[10:59]	lufpleh Obstreperous:	thx for your time Benjamin
[10:59]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for coming everyone, have a great weekend and we'll see you next week!
[11:00]	Very Susanti:	yeah thank you for your time
[11:00]	Arcane Laval:	Bye bye!
[11:00]	Phli Foxchase:	see you next week !