User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 May 31
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Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:
| [10:00] | Drew Dwi: | morning :) |
| [10:00] | Benjamin Linden: | hi guys |
| [10:00] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Drew |
| [10:00] | Benjamin Linden: | cute av :-) |
| [10:00] | Very Susanti: | Hiya evryone |
| [10:01] | Drew Dwi: | thanks :) |
| [10:01] | Squirrel Wood: | Hellos ^^ |
| [10:01] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Very, good to see you again |
| [10:01] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Squirrel |
| [10:01] | Very Susanti: | Hi benjamin |
| [10:01] | Benjamin Linden: | you as well |
| [10:01] | Squirrel Wood gave you Fortune Cookie. | |
| [10:01] | Squirrel Wood: | rez to get a fortune ^^ |
| [10:02] | Benjamin Linden: | maybe we'll wait just a few more minutes to let people arrive |
| [10:02] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Gao |
| [10:02] | Gao Niangao: | hi Benjamin |
| [10:02] | Gao Niangao: | hi all |
| [10:02] | Very Susanti: | Nice Avie Drew |
| [10:02] | Squirrel Wood: | bear! ^^ |
| [10:03] | Very Susanti: | hehe thanx |
| [10:03] | Drew Dwi: | danks :) |
| [10:03] | Benjamin Linden: | np, you can rez it when you get home :-) |
| [10:03] | Very Susanti: | haha don't trust us here lol |
| [10:03] | Squirrel Wood gave you AutoSizing Ring Seat 20+. | |
| [10:03] | Benjamin Linden: | what does the ring seat do? |
| [10:03] | Squirrel Wood: | A little something for when there's not enough seats available ^^ |
| [10:03] | Benjamin Linden: | is it like timeless prototype's chair? |
| [10:04] | Squirrel Wood: | basically a ring that supports 20+ people and that expands as more people sit on it |
| [10:04] | Very Susanti: | omg I hate those, make me seasick |
| [10:04] | There is no suitable surface to sit on, try another spot. | |
| [10:04] | Squirrel Wood: | it doesn't rez new seats. just expands |
| [10:04] | There is no suitable surface to sit on, try another spot. | |
| [10:04] | Drew Dwi gets trampled :P | |
| [10:04] | Squirrel Wood: | the blue ring acts as a table |
| [10:05] | Benjamin Linden: | ha, sorry drew |
| [10:05] | Benjamin Linden: | you blend into the seat! |
| [10:05] | Benjamin Linden: | :-) |
| [10:05] | Drew Dwi: | good for spying >:D |
| [10:05] | Benjamin Linden: | ah cool |
| [10:05] | Benjamin Linden: | I was trying to sit on the blue part |
| [10:05] | Squirrel Wood: | you may have to zoom close in on the yellow ring to successfully sit down |
| [10:05] | Benjamin Linden: | haha it even moves us around |
| [10:05] | Benjamin Linden: | pretty neat |
| [10:05] | Very Susanti: | yeah that is the part i don't like |
| [10:05] | Squirrel Wood: | it shuffles you around and slowly rotates people over time |
| [10:06] | Benjamin Linden: | haha really? |
| [10:06] | Very Susanti: | kewl though |
| [10:06] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Connor |
| [10:06] | Connor Whitman: | Hi |
| [10:06] | Connor Whitman: | :) |
| [10:06] | Benjamin Linden: | ok so I know Very and Squirrel have been to my office hours before |
| [10:07] | Squirrel Wood: | ^^ |
| [10:07] | Benjamin Linden: | how about connor and drew? |
| [10:07] | Drew Dwi: | nope, been wandering from office hour to office hour first time to catch yours tho |
| [10:07] | Benjamin Linden: | great, well welcome |
| [10:07] | Connor Whitman: | I was amking time to find an open Linden Office |
| [10:07] | Connor Whitman: | ty |
| [10:07] | Connor Whitman: | *making |
| [10:08] | Benjamin Linden: | so normally I like to pick a particular topic to discuss, and get your feedback and ideas on |
| [10:08] | Benjamin Linden: | we started talking a little bit about search last week and I think I'd like to continue that today |
| [10:08] | Connor Whitman: | I am havind a particular issue |
| [10:08] | Connor Whitman: | and can't seem to fix it |
| [10:08] | Benjamin Linden: | go ahead connor |
| [10:08] | Connor Whitman: | In the SL Site |
| [10:08] | Drew Dwi: | the tubes are broken again :P |
| [10:08] | Connor Whitman: | on my billing info update |
| [10:08] | Connor Whitman: | I dont have a CVC field |
| [10:08] | Benjamin Linden: | hmm, unfortunately I'm not the best person to help you with that |
| [10:09] | Connor Whitman: | and I need it |
| [10:09] | Benjamin Linden: | have you filed a support request? |
| [10:09] | Connor Whitman: | yes |
| [10:09] | Benjamin Linden: | ok well they should be following up with you then. |
| [10:09] | Connor Whitman: | Ok |
| [10:09] | Connor Whitman: | It's a nice place u got here |
| [10:09] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks! |
| [10:09] | Benjamin Linden: | it's a scope cleaver house |
| [10:10] | Benjamin Linden: | I love it! |
| [10:10] | Benjamin Linden: | althought it's very primmy |
| [10:10] | Connor Whitman: | :) |
| [10:10] | Drew Dwi: | have you noticed with search, if I type in like first or third it gets no results? kinda odd to believe there are no groups with first in them |
| [10:10] | Connor Whitman: | Huge Prims could help, but they don't seem to work very well |
| [10:10] | Very Susanti: | damn the prims I say |
| [10:10] | Very Susanti: | haha |
| [10:10] | Very Susanti: | puters always get faster |
| [10:10] | Connor Whitman: | not about lag |
| [10:11] | Connor Whitman: | U can reduce the prim count |
| [10:11] | Very Susanti: | I bet scultpties won't reduce prim counts it goes counter to every technology trend |
| [10:11] | Connor Whitman: | if u have large prims |
| [10:11] | Very Susanti: | large prims mess with the physics engine |
| [10:11] | Squirrel Wood: | When I search for a specific name on the "search all" tab, there is a whole lot of other items listed before the actual name which should be first in the list as an "exact hit" |
| [10:12] | Connor Whitman: | I have had no problem with some I had to use |
| [10:12] | Connor Whitman: | or I couldn't have built that place |
| [10:12] | Benjamin Linden: | we are sort of hoping sculpties will reduce prim count |
| [10:12] | Connor Whitman: | yes |
| [10:12] | Connor Whitman: | and more perfect pieces |
| [10:12] | Benjamin Linden: | since people won't have to use as many shapes to create organic shapes |
| [10:12] | Connor Whitman: | specially on furniture |
| [10:12] | Connor Whitman: | or scuplture |
| [10:12] | Very Susanti: | can I ask what backing technology is used? is it a real search engine index or just a database? |
| [10:12] | Squirrel Wood: | Sculpties will definitely reduce avatar prim counts ^^ |
| [10:13] | Benjamin Linden: | Very, it's searching a MySQL db |
| [10:13] | Connor Whitman: | Shoews will be great |
| [10:13] | Very Susanti: | I know Benjamin, but I doubt it in general |
| [10:13] | Connor Whitman: | *Shoes |
| [10:13] | Very Susanti: | K |
| [10:13] | Very Susanti: | DB are great but not as full featured as you want for search engines |
| [10:13] | Very Susanti: | and often slower |
| [10:13] | Squirrel Wood: | hmm... when I sear on the "All" tab for "Benjamin Linden" I have 5050poker show up top abd the actual name is on position 6 |
| [10:14] | Benjamin Linden: | that's right Very, we'd like to move to a real search engine |
| [10:14] | Very Susanti: | yeah order too is more complicated |
| [10:14] | *X-Flight, Carbon Rod X: All Go | |
| [10:14] | Benjamin Linden: | do you have any suggestions? |
| [10:14] | Squirrel Wood: | google? ^^ |
| [10:14] | Very Susanti: | you guys are a C++ shop right? |
| [10:14] | Benjamin Linden: | yes Squirrel, we definitely want to improve the accuracy and relevancy of the results |
| [10:14] | Connor Whitman: | I am not a developer |
| [10:14] | Very Susanti: | I have used Lucene, not sure of it's C++ support |
| [10:15] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, we're mainly c++ |
| [10:15] | Very Susanti: | but it shouldn't matter in an SOA archt |
| [10:15] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Wyn, welcome back Gao |
| [10:15] | Wyn Galbraith: | Good morning. |
| [10:15] | Connor Whitman: | Morning |
| [10:15] | Benjamin Linden: | good point, Very |
| [10:15] | Very Susanti: | Iassume you have some kind of ESB implementation |
| [10:16] | Benjamin Linden: | so beyond the back-end technology questions, I wanted to get a better understanding of how you use search today |
| [10:16] | Benjamin Linden: | would you all mind giving me some specific examples? |
| [10:16] | Gao Niangao: | ((thanks... sorry: spontaneous Linux client flake-out)) |
| [10:16] | Very Susanti: | well it is probably important to define the search you are talking about |
| [10:16] | Drew Dwi: | just curious have you considered making the land searches be able to sort out the rental vs buying? as searching for land sales tends to be flooded land priced at $0L which you can't filter out which is for rent |
| [10:16] | Very Susanti: | Event searching is different from location searching |
| [10:17] | Connor Whitman: | I use a mac, but are u talking about search engines on the www? or here? |
| [10:17] | Squirrel Wood: | I usually use as few words as possible and as exact a "description" as possible to find what I want. works nice on the major search engines but usually tends to yield surprising results in SL ^^ |
| [10:17] | Connor Whitman: | I only use the regualr search here |
| [10:17] | Benjamin Linden: | that's an interesting issue, Drew, I'll bring that up with the team |
| [10:17] | Very Susanti: | yes but they do add fuzzy matching and keyword expansion, but the results are ordered into zones |
| [10:18] | Very Susanti: | with the exact matches appearing in a higher zone |
| [10:18] | Drew Dwi: | cool :) real annoying |
| [10:18] | Benjamin Linden: | so Squirrel, when you say "find what you want" what are you generally looking for? |
| [10:18] | Drew Dwi: | the other option I think would be cool is to filter out land that doesn't have anything other than the default coventant on private estates |
| [10:18] | Squirrel Wood: | land search should filter out ridiculous land prices like, 9999999999999 |
| [10:19] | Very Susanti: | haha yes |
| [10:19] | Drew Dwi: | filtering high price is easy, its the low that you can't filter out currently |
| [10:19] | Squirrel Wood: | clothes, items. stuff like that |
| [10:19] | Benjamin Linden: | do any of you use websites like slexchange for item searches? |
| [10:19] | Very Susanti: | and it would be nice to have a real relavency ranking that is not tied to dwell |
| [10:20] | Squirrel Wood: | slx... rarely. |
| [10:20] | Drew Dwi: | yeah only used slx, can honestly say never used the classified stuff |
| [10:20] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Mattias |
| [10:20] | Benjamin Linden: | you can click the yellow ring to sit |
| [10:20] | Squirrel Wood: | usually search those when trying to decide what I want to build |
| [10:20] | Mattias Jansma: | hello |
| [10:21] | Squirrel Wood: | the yellow ring ^^ |
| [10:21] | Connor Whitman: | It would be interesting if u could have way to group ur friends on list |
| [10:21] | Connor Whitman: | like on msn |
| [10:21] | Benjamin Linden: | so Squirrel you use slexchange sort of like a competitive analysis tool? |
| [10:21] | Very Susanti: | yes that would help alot in managing really large lists |
| [10:21] | Benjamin Linden: | to see what other people are building? |
| [10:21] | Squirrel Wood: | basically |
| [10:22] | Wyn Galbraith: | Good idea Squirrel. |
| [10:22] | Benjamin Linden: | I like that suggestion Connor |
| [10:22] | Squirrel Wood: | to see whether its a good idea to reinvent the wheel or not ^^ |
| [10:22] | Benjamin Linden: | interesting |
| [10:22] | Wyn Galbraith: | I hate that 'oh I have a great idea' only to find out it's been done better by someone else ;) |
| [10:22] | Very Susanti: | if you are a savy advertiser I suppose you could and make money |
| [10:22] | Connor Whitman: | the inventory window could be more user friendly too |
| [10:23] | Benjamin Linden: | so when when any of you search using the built-in search, do you generally use the All search or go specifically to the sub-tabs? |
| [10:23] | Connor Whitman: | like a tab instaed of a folder |
| [10:23] | Very Susanti: | people buy what they see, and don't always find the best thing first |
| [10:23] | Squirrel Wood: | what I would like to see is a list of names at the right side of group chat sessions like in IRC so you can actually see who is still there and listening in :) |
| [10:23] | Wyn Galbraith is terrified of her inventory. "It's like my RL closet, a real mess." | |
| [10:23] | Connor Whitman: | ahaha |
| [10:23] | Connor Whitman: | I clean it up |
| [10:23] | Gao Niangao *never* uses the All Search | |
| [10:23] | Very Susanti: | I use the specific sub tabs |
| [10:23] | Connor Whitman: | but Its hard to get it on check this way |
| [10:23] | Squirrel Wood: | I tend to use the ALL search unless I know specifically what I want to search for |
| [10:23] | Very Susanti: | and in events I use the filter |
| [10:23] | Benjamin Linden: | actually Squirrel we're adding that as part of voice chat, have you seen the new beta viewer? |
| [10:23] | Roof Doors: | Mattias Jansma is at the door. |
| [10:23] | Wyn Galbraith: | I do when I can't find something in the other tabs. |
| [10:24] | Connor Whitman: | there external Hud that help on that right? |
| [10:24] | Roof Doors: | Benjamin Linden is at the door. |
| [10:24] | Connor Whitman: | I mean ALL search |
| [10:24] | Squirrel Wood: | I don't use the beta viewers here. Though I do try out the first look series viewers ^^ |
| [10:24] | Connor Whitman: | I used it before |
| [10:25] | Connor Whitman: | now using the regualr version |
| [10:25] | Benjamin Linden: | well the current voice chat viewer only works on the beta grid, so you wouldn't be able to use it here :-) |
| [10:25] | Connor Whitman: | the Beta new interface is very weird to use |
| [10:25] | Gao Niangao: | actually, I tried the "chatterbox" window... i kinda like it... except it keeps the Voice part of the UI even when I've disabled Voice completely |
| [10:25] | Benjamin Linden: | but we are rolling out some improvements to the chat interface as part of the voice chat |
| [10:25] | Connor Whitman: | on frieds and communications |
| [10:26] | Drew Dwi: | is voice chat 1 to 1 and via group going to happen also? |
| [10:26] | Drew Dwi: | ie, not tied down to land? |
| [10:26] | Benjamin Linden: | I'm glad you like it Gao. in the final version you'll be able to hide the voice pieces if you're not using them |
| [10:26] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, Drew, that is happening also |
| [10:26] | Connor Whitman: | brb |
| [10:26] | Benjamin Linden: | Connor, what confuses you about the chatterbox? |
| [10:26] | Connor Whitman: | Voice is very good thing on SL |
| [10:26] | Connor Whitman: | Im looking forward to it |
| [10:27] | Very Susanti: | the chatterbox is nice |
| [10:27] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks Very :-) |
| [10:27] | Very Susanti: | it is the only way to tell who is tlking |
| [10:27] | Benjamin Linden: | right, that's the main reason it was built |
| [10:27] | Very Susanti: | it would be nice if you could mute someone from the chatterbox |
| [10:27] | Benjamin Linden: | plus it will be the way you initiate 1-to-1 and group calls |
| [10:27] | Very Susanti: | I suspect voice will be a great griefer toy |
| [10:28] | Benjamin Linden: | you will be able to mute individuals using the chatterbox |
| [10:28] | Connor Whitman: | thats cool |
| [10:28] | Very Susanti: | kewl |
| [10:28] | Connor Whitman: | so u go on chatting |
| [10:28] | Connor Whitman: | and mute the spammers |
| [10:28] | Benjamin Linden: | actually you can individually control volume levels for everyone you're talking to |
| [10:28] | Benjamin Linden: | which is very helpful |
| [10:28] | Very Susanti: | can you do that today? |
| [10:28] | Benjamin Linden: | hmm, I'm not sure what's in the latest release |
| [10:28] | Connor Whitman: | I hope the interface gets easier to use |
| [10:29] | Benjamin Linden: | can you elaborate Connor? |
| [10:29] | Connor Whitman: | Yes |
| [10:29] | Connor Whitman: | The box on beta |
| [10:29] | Very Susanti: | well I wonder how easy it will be to manage the "chat" voice and IM voice from a single box |
| [10:29] | Connor Whitman: | is very unfriedly to users |
| [10:29] | Connor Whitman: | You could need a more Apple like interfaces |
| [10:29] | Squirrel Wood: | How about an option "people not on my friends list cannot hear me" or "I can only hear people on my friends list" ? |
| [10:30] | Connor Whitman: | thse are usually very simple to all |
| [10:30] | Connor Whitman: | thats cool too |
| [10:30] | Benjamin Linden: | that's an interesting idea, Squirrel |
| [10:30] | Drew Dwi: | the speakers button on the far right wasn't intiutive, I didn't realize what it did untill someone told me. |
| [10:30] | Benjamin Linden: | there is an option for only allowing friends to call you |
| [10:30] | Connor Whitman: | LOL and Kill sound gestures LOL they are spooky ahaha |
| [10:30] | Squirrel Wood: | sometimes I want to concentrate on building but still want to be able to hear my friends ^^ |
| [10:30] | Benjamin Linden: | we're changing the speakers label to an icon |
| [10:31] | Drew Dwi: | maybe who's talking or different name would do it better justice |
| [10:31] | Very Susanti: | how will you set the context you are talking in, as in general voice chat or a specific friends conference? |
| [10:31] | Very Susanti: | Hi Chaley? |
| [10:31] | Connor Whitman: | they were anoucing voice changers in SLExchange can u kill those on ur land? |
| [10:31] | Squirrel Wood: | the yellow ring. |
| [10:31] | Benjamin Linden: | welcome Chaley |
| [10:31] | Drew Dwi: | no heh |
| [10:31] | Connor Whitman: | Hi |
| [10:31] | Wyn Galbraith: | Hi Chaley |
| [10:32] | Chaley May: | hi :) |
| [10:32] | Benjamin Linden: | Very, this will be done in the chatterbox |
| [10:32] | Very Susanti: | I think voice changers run on peoples puters, so no |
| [10:32] | Connor Whitman: | it could be an option to kill those kind of gear |
| [10:32] | Benjamin Linden: | that is one part that will be potentially confusing |
| [10:32] | Connor Whitman: | yes |
| [10:32] | Connor Whitman: | it is |
| [10:32] | Very Susanti: | well I would love to see that part of the interface |
| [10:32] | Connor Whitman: | I can do a sketch on the interface actually |
| [10:32] | Benjamin Linden: | that's right, there's no way for us to control the voice changers |
| [10:32] | Connor Whitman: | I like that |
| [10:32] | Very Susanti: | I suspect that part will need the most resident review time |
| [10:33] | Connor Whitman: | That can be confusing but I think we can tell after a while |
| [10:33] | Benjamin Linden: | yes we plan to have that out soon for you to look at |
| [10:33] | Very Susanti: | kewl |
| [10:34] | Very Susanti: | also we need a way to disable Windlight, it crashes my laptop |
| [10:34] | Very Susanti: | if you stick that in the next beta, I won't be able to run it |
| [10:34] | Connor Whitman: | MacBooks Pro seem to have a 'buzz' when running SL |
| [10:34] | Drew Dwi: | thats the fan probably |
| [10:34] | Drew Dwi: | my macbook does it too |
| [10:34] | Connor Whitman: | everybody cumplaints about that |
| [10:34] | Very Susanti: | or the harddrive spinning |
| [10:34] | Connor Whitman: | yes |
| [10:34] | Benjamin Linden: | there will be a "downgraded" mode for people that can't support windlight |
| [10:35] | Very Susanti: | could be swap thrashing |
| [10:35] | Drew Dwi: | nah its the fan for sure :P |
| [10:35] | Very Susanti hates that word | |
| [10:35] | Connor Whitman: | I have no lag whatsoever |
| [10:35] | Connor Whitman: | and have all on |
| [10:36] | Connor Whitman: | it makes a difference if one practises SL Sports, scripts are very heavy |
| [10:36] | Connor Whitman: | weather Island doesnt take a lot of ppl at the same time |
| [10:37] | Wyn Galbraith has to put an icepack under her laptop when in SL. | |
| [10:37] | Drew Dwi: | just curious, is SL coded to take advantage of dual core processors? |
| [10:37] | Connor Whitman: | mine doesnt heat |
| [10:37] | Connor Whitman: | its just the buzz |
| [10:37] | Wyn Galbraith: | This is a dual core tablet pc |
| [10:37] | Benjamin Linden: | I'm not sure about that Drew |
| [10:37] | Very Susanti: | it wasn't a while back, I saw a blog entry that said you should set the processor affinity, but I haven't seen anything new since |
| [10:38] | Benjamin Linden: | and yes, I do get a lot of fan action with SL |
| [10:38] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Tuesday |
| [10:38] | Connor Whitman: | I maybe need to get a desktop version |
| [10:38] | Tuesday McKay: | Hi Benjamin! |
| [10:38] | Connor Whitman: | an iMac at least |
| [10:38] | Very Susanti: | I had an over heating problem for a while kept freezing my laptop |
| [10:38] | Connor Whitman: | is it a PC? |
| [10:38] | Very Susanti: | then I replaced it and put more gunk on it and that helped |
| [10:38] | Very Susanti: | replaces the fan I mean |
| [10:39] | Benjamin Linden: | so guys, let's get back to search for a little bit |
| [10:39] | Connor Whitman: | Ok I need to go |
| [10:39] | Benjamin Linden: | what do people think of traffic as a way to rank results? |
| [10:39] | Very Susanti: | sucks |
| [10:39] | Wyn Galbraith: | The fan works, it just gets very hot anyway. So I have those plastic icepacks to keep drinks cold in the freezer. And use that when it peaks over 111. |
| [10:39] | Squirrel Wood: | doesn't give very accurate results if you ask me. |
| [10:40] | Very Susanti: | I think the way to do it is by popularity, ie, someone does a search and then tp's to the location |
| [10:40] | Benjamin Linden: | see ya Connor, thanks for coming |
| [10:40] | Connor Whitman: | TY |
| [10:40] | Very Susanti: | add a hook there to increment a popularity counter |
| [10:40] | Connor Whitman: | I will come next time and bring an interface example |
| [10:40] | Connor Whitman: | :) |
| [10:40] | Very Susanti: | even better if you can tie it to the keywords, to get a keyword relevance |
| [10:40] | Connor Whitman: | i graphics |
| [10:40] | Connor Whitman: | bye all |
| [10:40] | Connor Whitman: | ty |
| [10:41] | Wyn Galbraith: | Bye |
| [10:41] | Squirrel Wood: | search also is manipulated through the use of many, many keywords. you want to bump your result up? Add any keywords of the x-rated kind to your classified ad and up it goes |
| [10:41] | Very Susanti: | that is how most search engines do a relevancy boost |
| [10:41] | Benjamin Linden: | ok that'd be great Connor |
| [10:41] | Benjamin Linden: | well google has the idea of page ranking |
| [10:41] | Benjamin Linden: | we need something similar for relevance |
| [10:41] | Squirrel Wood: | mayhaps not just a popularity counter but an accuracy counter as well.. so people can tell "Hey! this item has nothing to do with what I searched for. bump it down!" ^^ |
| [10:42] | Very Susanti: | also keywords or tags should be tied to a term document frequency so you can penalize keyword spammers |
| [10:42] | Chaley May: | Isnt googles ranking system based ont he amount fo people that have webpages linked to it? |
| [10:42] | Very Susanti: | well they use a combination of term document frequecy and hit frequency |
| [10:42] | Gao Niangao: | yes, Very... something sorta Bayesian, like spam detection |
| [10:42] | Squirrel Wood: | How about providing several lists of keywords based on general topics that one can choose one from on posting a classified ad? |
| [10:43] | Benjamin Linden: | Google's algorithm is complex and proprietary |
| [10:43] | Squirrel Wood: | that would help to greatly cut down the keyword abuse |
| [10:43] | Very Susanti: | yes |
| [10:43] | Benjamin Linden: | but yes, one part of it is how many other pages link to a page |
| [10:43] | Benjamin Linden: | when you say keywords, are you guys talking about tagging? |
| [10:44] | Very Susanti: | but gogle appliance wouldn't work since they way they think of documents |
| [10:44] | Very Susanti: | well tagging by keywords |
| [10:44] | Very Susanti: | I think allowing tags might not be best |
| [10:44] | Very Susanti: | best to use the description alone to get the search terms |
| [10:45] | Very Susanti: | then a target description will get better search results |
| [10:45] | Gao Niangao: | ah, well, there are "tags" supplied by advertisers in the descriptive text, and "social networking tags" by users... |
| [10:45] | Very Susanti: | tags can be used which have no relevance to the description |
| [10:45] | Gao Niangao: | but the credibility of the users has to be some kind of "earned" metric |
| [10:46] | Very Susanti: | you can also add a boost based on a resident voting system |
| [10:46] | Benjamin Linden: | I think the idea with tagging is that every time someone tags something with the same tag it's like another "vote" for that tag |
| [10:47] | Benjamin Linden: | so it increases the strength of that tag |
| [10:47] | Benjamin Linden: | the idea being that the community validates the tags |
| [10:47] | Very Susanti: | I don't follow Benjamin |
| [10:47] | Benjamin Linden: | ok let's say we're tagging the coffee table here |
| [10:48] | Benjamin Linden: | if seven of us tag it with table and one person tags it with "casino" or something |
| [10:48] | Very Susanti: | when I talk about voting I mean like a ranking system, like the user reviews paradigm |
| [10:48] | Benjamin Linden: | then the table tag is weighted much more heavily |
| [10:48] | Gao Niangao: | the problem is that the community has to be able to invalidate tagging sources that are unreliable, or vett sources that are good... otherwise the system is subject to "gaming" |
| [10:48] | Very Susanti: | I think that kind of weighting should be tied to how many times people actually went to that site after doing the search |
| [10:49] | Benjamin Linden: | that's true Gao, and I think it's interesting to look at examples like del.icio.us and digg |
| [10:49] | Benjamin Linden: | because they have to deal with gaming all the time |
| [10:49] | Very Susanti: | if I did a search and went to your store your store would get a boost based on my visit |
| [10:49] | Wyn Galbraith: | That's a good idea. |
| [10:50] | Benjamin Linden: | I really like the idea of including tp's in the calculations Very |
| [10:50] | Squirrel Wood: | hmm.. |
| [10:50] | Benjamin Linden: | sort of like clickthroughs on the web |
| [10:50] | Squirrel Wood: | That may actually work out ^^ |
| [10:50] | Very Susanti: | in addition if I had a way to give a store a rating that rating could boost the stores relavance and a secondary ordering |
| [10:50] | Wyn Galbraith: | I think so too. |
| [10:50] | Benjamin Linden: | does Google include what people click on in their relevance calculations? |
| [10:50] | Very Susanti: | exactly |
| [10:50] | Very Susanti: | yes |
| [10:50] | Very Susanti: | I have sat with their sales reps |
| [10:50] | Wyn Galbraith gives Very the Good Idea of the Day award. | |
| [10:51] | Benjamin Linden: | :-) |
| [10:51] | Wyn Galbraith: | Too bad we got rid of the voting system for places. |
| [10:51] | Very Susanti: | but they charge by document and each location would be a document in their way of doing things |
| [10:51] | Very Susanti: | so we implemented an alternative search tool |
| [10:51] | Benjamin Linden: | because Google was too expensive? |
| [10:52] | Very Susanti: | yeah for a system our size it was in the millions |
| [10:53] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Alph |
| [10:53] | Very Susanti: | anyway we had a hybrid system included LAS for name variations, a name index and an relationship ontology |
| [10:53] | Very Susanti: | was a big system |
| [10:53] | Gao Niangao: | you know... *recency* of a tag is also important. otherwise the system becomes an insurmountable barrier to entry |
| [10:53] | Benjamin Linden: | if you could all pick one thing to fix with search today, what would it be? |
| [10:53] | Squirrel Wood: | search priority ^^ |
| [10:54] | Chaley May: | the price of classifieds |
| [10:54] | Very Susanti: | searches should operate off of the description utilizing a term document frequency for ranking |
| [10:54] | Benjamin Linden: | what do you mean by that, Squirrel? |
| [10:54] | Very Susanti: | so the results are targeted towards more specific descriptions |
| [10:54] | Gao Niangao thinks "Popular Places" has outlived its usefulness: "nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded" | |
| [10:54] | Benjamin Linden: | so Very, you would like to see more useful and accurate descriptions? |
| [10:55] | Squirrel Wood: | ye. classifieds seem to be sorted by how much people paid for them. And some waste 100,000s of L$ on those just to be on top |
| [10:55] | Very Susanti: | well that is up to the people who make the adds |
| [10:55] | Chaley May: | but still put a limit |
| [10:55] | Benjamin Linden: | is that what you meant Chaley? |
| [10:55] | Very Susanti: | but I would like to see a system which prefers people who make careful decisions |
| [10:55] | Chaley May: | i think classifieds/advertising should be cheap |
| [10:55] | Very Susanti: | and penalizes keyword spammers |
| [10:56] | Chaley May: | that stops people spamming land sales with adverts names |
| [10:56] | Chaley May: | creating parcels with long names for adverts |
| [10:56] | Very Susanti: | second I would want to add it the hit (tp) based rankings |
| [10:56] | Benjamin Linden: | because they show up higher in the list, Chaley? |
| [10:56] | Squirrel Wood: | I would remodel the classifieds to use a bell curve on the payment. pay a little, be at the bottom of the list. pay ridiculously much, be at the bottom. pay like, 1000L and you'll be amongst the top listed ones |
| [10:56] | Gao Niangao: | Very, I agree: the more popular keywords in the supplied description, the less weight they get in a match |
| [10:57] | Chaley May: | not to be higher up on the list |
| [10:57] | Very Susanti: | I have two other points: 1) if you could add a button in the IM wndow to paste a slurl it would really be helpfull as tp fails, and my friends often don't show up as online |
| [10:57] | Very Susanti: | 2) a way someone can mute their chatter sound |
| [10:58] | Benjamin Linden: | do you mean paste a slurl to your current location? |
| [10:58] | Very Susanti: | (sorry to be off topic but we are close to the end and I wanted to get them in) |
| [10:58] | Very Susanti: | yes |
| [10:58] | Gao Niangao: | but Classifieds are a significant contributor to LL's revenue... competition for a paid top slot won't go away |
| [10:58] | Very Susanti: | I have to to use a script to paste it to chat and then copy and paste |
| [10:59] | Very Susanti: | which is horrible when there is a lot of chatter |
| [10:59] | Chaley May: | classifieds generate no revenue |
| [10:59] | Benjamin Linden: | I'm not sure classifieds really add that much revenue Gao; I think we'd rather have a system that works better for Residents |
| [10:59] | Chaley May: | paying Lindens to classified gets sent into oblivion i believe |
| [10:59] | Squirrel Wood: | search classifieds for "Avatar". the top listed one paid like, 132,000 L$ |
| [10:59] | Squirrel Wood: | and that is quite some money. |
| [10:59] | Benjamin Linden: | wow! |
| [11:00] | Benjamin Linden: | personally I don't feel price is a useful metric for search results |
| [11:00] | Benjamin Linden: | the problem is we don't have a system for advertisers to do paid placement in search results |
| [11:00] | Chaley May: | I dont.. people cant afford classifieds so they use everything else for advertising |
| [11:01] | Very Susanti: | you could eventually do a system similar to the web advertisers, people bid on how much they want to pay per hit and use that in their ranking |
| [11:01] | Benjamin Linden: | I think that's right Very |
| [11:01] | Benjamin Linden: | then we can get the noise out of classifieds |
| [11:01] | Benjamin Linden: | make it more like craiglist :-) |
| [11:01] | Very Susanti: | and then search can be a money maker too |
| [11:01] | Chaley May: | making classifieds work better is the key to fixing problems of relevence for other searches by removing the need to use events for advertising, or land sales, place names |
| [11:01] | Benjamin Linden: | I think that's a great point Chaley |
| [11:02] | Benjamin Linden: | ok guys, I have to run |
| [11:02] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks for coming today! |
| [11:02] | Chaley May: | :) |
| [11:02] | Chaley May: | bye Benjamin |
| [11:02] | Benjamin Linden: | and thanks as always your valuable input |
| [11:02] | Squirrel Wood: | I hope you got at least half a dozen good ideas to pass on and do something with today ^^ |
| [11:02] | Gao Niangao: | thanks, Benjamin |
| [11:02] | Benjamin Linden: | definitely! |
| [11:02] | Very Susanti: | I want to start another topic too, but maybe for next time "Groups suck .. for event advertising" |
| [11:02] | Benjamin Linden: | let's talk about that on Tuesday, Very |
| [11:03] | Benjamin Linden: | it sounds interesting |
| [11:03] | Very Susanti: | especially since we only get 25 |
| [11:03] | Squirrel Wood: | 25 groups is not enough ^^ |
| [11:03] | Very Susanti: | I am constantly rejecting offers even on groups I would like to get notices from |
| [11:03] | Chaley May: | If classifieds work better people wont use adfarms for advertising |
| [11:03] | Drew Dwi: | :) bye |
| [11:03] | Very Susanti: | okies thank you |
| [11:03] | Benjamin Linden: | bye Drew, thanks for coming |
| [11:03] | Benjamin Linden: | alright everybody, have a great weekend! |
| [11:03] | Squirrel Wood: | ^^ |
| [11:03] | Very Susanti: | you too |
| [11:04] | Tuesday McKay: | Bye! |