User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Nov 29

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[15:04]	JaneD DeCuir:	hello ben
[15:04]	Jason Swain:	Hello Benjamin
[15:04]	Amaya Summers:	hello Ben :)
[15:04]	Benjamin Linden:	hi folks
[15:05]	Squirrel Wood:	Yay! It's Ben ^^
[15:05]	JaneD DeCuir:	nice to meet you
[15:05]	Tasia Tonic:	hiya!
[15:05]	Tasia Tonic:	:)
[15:05]	Amaya Summers:	now THAT'S an avatar.. my fav color too
[15:05]	Benjamin Linden:	oh hey Tasia!
[15:05]	Harleen Gretzky:	Hi Benjamin :)
[15:05]	Tasia Tonic:	:)
[15:05]	There is no suitable surface to sit on, try another spot.
[15:05]	Benjamin Linden:	oops I'm giving squirrel a neck rub :-)
[15:06]	Squirrel Wood:	OMy ^^
[15:06]	Amaya Summers:	LOL Ben
[15:06]	Jurin Juran:	sit here benjamin
[15:06]	Jason Swain nearly got a photo :(
[15:06]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm, I used to be able to sit at the end of the bench
[15:06]	Benjamin Linden:	no no you're fine jurin
[15:06]	Tasia Tonic:	just stopped by to see if you know anything about blue screens? LOL it is ok atm but I keep blue screening out due to parity memory error...all hardware has been checked and it says it is fine. :/
[15:06]	Benjamin Linden:	this is my favorite new chair :-)
[15:07]	JaneD DeCuir:	sounds not good
[15:07]	Tasia Tonic:	LOL
[15:07]	Jurin Juran:	ahhh
[15:07]	Squirrel Wood:	did you run memtest86 yet?
[15:07]	Tasia Tonic:	i love these chairs over here!
[15:07]	JaneD DeCuir:	check your power supply about the 12Volt rails
[15:07]	Jason Swain:	Thats interesting, my cam was locked onto benjamin and then I saw Benjamin in the sea?
[15:07]	Squirrel Wood:	if that one spits out errors it may be your ram
[15:07]	Tasia Tonic:	I took it in...
[15:07]	Amaya Summers:	I Love the poses on them
[15:07]	Tasia Tonic:	so they said they checked everything and that it must just be sl
[15:07]	Tasia Tonic:	because it does not blue screen with anything elses
[15:07]	Jurin Juran:	yeah scope and max have the best stuff
[15:07]	JaneD DeCuir:	some power supply dont delivers 12V and the pc will run instable
[15:07]	Amaya Summers:	what about the graphics card itself?
[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	what are you all discussing?
[15:08]	JaneD DeCuir:	11.5volts are not good
[15:08]	Tasia Tonic:	yeah they said that was fine too
[15:08]	JaneD DeCuir:	tech sup
[15:08]	Tasia Tonic:	I keep blue screening out of SL...
[15:08]	Jurin Juran:	tasia has blue screens
[15:08]	JaneD DeCuir:	benjamin
[15:08]	Tasia Tonic:	does not do it with any other programs
[15:08]	Amaya Summers:	I am not sure about a specific topic but I do have on to bring to the table if possible
[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm, is this a recent development, Tasia?
[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	sure Amaya, what's up
[15:08]	Tasia Tonic:	it has been happening on and off since an update froma while ago
[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	JaneD, did you have a question?
[15:09]	JaneD DeCuir:	yes, about the flying mode
[15:09]	Tasia Tonic:	It stopped for a few days when I turned off the log out thing
[15:09]	Amaya Summers:	the UI inter face editabilty in terms of font's
[15:09]	Amaya Summers:	short backgrounder, been tryign to get this looked into for 2 y4ears now ;(
[15:09]	Amaya Summers:	running out of options
[15:09]	JaneD DeCuir:	is there a possiblity to correct my flying mode when i leave the ground so that im flying straight over the ground and doesnt follow the landscape?
[15:10]	Amaya Summers:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1927
[15:10]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm, I don't think that's an option JaneD
[15:10]	JaneD DeCuir:	because there are some settings in the debug... but i dont know which i have or can set to change the default
[15:10]	JaneD DeCuir:	debug dont helps ben?
[15:11]	Squirrel Wood:	At some point you will have to follow the terrain as you cannot move or fly underground ;)
[15:11]	Squirrel Wood:	As for flying above the cloud layer... that's where you use a flight assist script
[15:12]	JaneD DeCuir:	if you start from a floor in a house then the height increases so fast that you crash into the roof..
[15:12]	JaneD DeCuir:	yes
[15:12]	JaneD DeCuir:	thats a little worry..
[15:12]	Amaya Summers:	http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=190624&highlight=accessibility
[15:12]	Squirrel Wood:	If you are using a flight assist script, those calculate the "support" they apply based on the height above sea level.
[15:12]	JaneD DeCuir:	i dont have acces to forum.. mmh
[15:12]	JaneD DeCuir:	yes
[15:12]	JaneD DeCuir:	sounds interesting
[15:13]	Benjamin Linden:	I think this is an important issue Amaya
[15:13]	Jason Swain:	lol I cant see the accessibility forum
[15:13]	Benjamin Linden:	certainly from an accessibility standpoint
[15:13]	Benjamin Linden:	the problem is right now our UI framework doesn't handle dynamic resizing very well
[15:13]	Benjamin Linden:	which it would need to do to adapt to font size changes
[15:13]	Amaya Summers:	yes it does
[15:13]	Benjamin Linden:	so I'm not sure how quickly this could happen
[15:13]	Amaya Summers:	if you read through the forum post you will see the xml file deveolopped
[15:13]	Benjamin Linden:	oh is there a patch here?
[15:14]	Amaya Summers:	all one needs to do is by-pass teh debug menue and add th ebuttons
[15:14]	Benjamin Linden:	hey Mike!
[15:14]	Amaya Summers:	the patch is not well known and is difficult for some users to use and hard to hedit
[15:14]	Amaya Summers:	to edit too .
[15:14]	Amaya Summers:	this si somethign so basic ;(
[15:14]	Benjamin Linden:	is it in the jira task or in the forum?
[15:14]	Amaya Summers:	it's in both
[15:14]	Amaya Summers:	I posted teh lilnk to both
[15:15]	JaneD DeCuir:	did you have enabled logging if you have a bluescreen?
[15:15]	Amaya Summers:	It's beenproven by me and a couple others the client script is capable of handling this
[15:16]	Amaya Summers:	the problem is .. no one is willing to hear it ;(
[15:16]	Amaya Summers:	I can even provide you a screeny righ tnow to prove it
[15:16]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, please!
[15:17]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry Amaya, I'm not seeing the link to the forum post with the patch
[15:17]	Benjamin Linden:	oh here I have it
[15:17]	Amaya Summers:	testing testing
[15:17]	JaneD DeCuir:	i would reccomend enable of logging
[15:18]	JaneD DeCuir:	what now?
[15:18]	Amaya Summers:	oh oh .. lagadelia has joined us
[15:18]	JaneD DeCuir:	thats the only thing what makes me a little worry in sl ben, the rest is always a little better
[15:19]	No room to sit here, try another spot.
[15:19]	Amaya Summers:	Ben did yu receive the photo?
[15:19]	Amaya Summers gave you UI appearance with Amaya's settings.
[15:19]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, it's loading
[15:19]	Tasia Tonic:	i think I will make ben a thrown LOL
[15:19]	Amaya Summers:	sweet
[15:20]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm interesting
[15:20]	Benjamin Linden:	well the text doesn't fit the buttons very well
[15:20]	Amaya Summers:	wha?
[15:20]	Benjamin Linden:	how do the dialogs look?
[15:20]	JaneD DeCuir:	flying is difficult sometimes, over 180m im increasing endless
[15:20]	Amaya Summers:	nope but it's usable
[15:20]	Benjamin Linden:	preferences, etc
[15:20]	Amaya Summers:	when you are disabled you have to learn to accept some little things
[15:21]	Amaya Summers:	all I am hopiong for is basics
[15:21]	Amaya Summers:	never was into fancy .. this would benefit a lot of other people too like lthose with smaller monitor sizes
[15:21]	Amaya Summers:	the slider thinger is useless
[15:21]	JaneD DeCuir:	that is a problem which appears when i change the resolution
[15:22]	JaneD DeCuir:	the map looks very small after
[15:22]	Benjamin Linden:	Amaya, how does the text look on densely packed UI areas, like the Build tools or the profile window?
[15:23]	Amaya Summers:	the way i have it set up is for me with a few other adjustments on my computer . it des work if you know what youa re doing .. it's basic bypassing the debug memnue and write to the client preferences and such
[15:23]	Benjamin Linden:	I put up a screen here so people can see what we're talking about
[15:23]	Amaya Summers:	well when it is set like tlhis the slider does come in handy .. I slide down a bit, text gets a bit smaller but it's better thennothing
[15:24]	Amaya Summers:	the new search feature is unusable even with xml settings though
[15:24]	Squirrel Wood:	Have you tried scaling up the UI size ?
[15:24]	Amaya Summers:	am told that's a seperate application though
[15:24]	Amaya Summers:	Ben.. that's useless
[15:24]	Amaya Summers:	have you tried it? lol
[15:24]	Amaya Summers:	I don't mean to sound smug .. sorry .. just frustrated.. been fighting this a very long time
[15:24]	Benjamin Linden:	Search is a web page
[15:24]	Benjamin Linden:	which is why it doesn't react to the XML changes
[15:25]	Benjamin Linden:	Squirrel asked about the UI size, not me
[15:25]	Amaya Summers:	yeah .. my goal is just to be able to use SL and allow others to use it wihtout having to jump through hoops to do it
[15:25]	Benjamin Linden:	I think that is a marginal solution to accessibility
[15:25]	Benjamin Linden:	can you send me a screenshot of the UI with some more windows open
[15:25]	Amaya Summers:	oops sorry Squirrel the slider makes it impossible to use to be honest
[15:25]	Benjamin Linden:	like the profile window and the build tools
[15:25]	Amaya Summers:	yep .. one moment
[15:26]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry Jurin, didn't mean to take your seat
[15:26]	Squirrel Wood:	Hmm. I'm using a UI size of 0.9 here without problems
[15:26]	Jurin Juran:	your seat benjamin :)
[15:26]	Benjamin Linden:	I think the concern Squirrel is when increasing the size to larger than 1
[15:26]	Amaya Summers:	I need it much higher then that Jurin
[15:26]	Tasia Tonic:	sorry all, being called away for work.
[15:26]	Benjamin Linden:	the intent being to support people with vision problems
[15:27]	Benjamin Linden:	has everyone had a chance to play with the new search yet?
[15:27]	Jurin Juran:	i use it all the time
[15:27]	JaneD DeCuir:	yes
[15:27]	Squirrel Wood:	works fine for me
[15:28]	Jurin Juran:	if only we could search through events a little better
[15:28]	JaneD DeCuir:	sometimes the landscape will not showing on the map, it is greyed
[15:28]	Squirrel Wood:	though it does take its time when adding new things to its database
[15:28]	Amaya Summers gave you Profile and edit menue with Amaya's settings.
[15:29]	Squirrel Wood:	brb
[15:29]	Benjamin Linden:	ok I see what you mean, Amaya
[15:29]	Benjamin Linden:	so does the patch change the text size in each individual XML file?
[15:29]	JaneD DeCuir:	i dont like that transparent menus
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	which transparent menus, JaneD?
[15:30]	JaneD DeCuir:	the menus
[15:30]	JaneD DeCuir:	any
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	you mean in general? like on the mac?
[15:30]	Amaya Summers:	no the patch has the settings for each font element like the mono space font.. the defualt font and such
[15:30]	JaneD DeCuir:	in general
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	it actually puts a setting in Preferences, Amaya?
[15:31]	JaneD DeCuir:	this one with the grey backgrounds was better to read
[15:32]	JaneD DeCuir:	that was a fine option, if we can change it solid or transparent
[15:32]	Amaya Summers:	,
[15:32]	Amaya Summers:	I crashed lol
[15:32]	Amaya Summers:	no th epatch does not place the option in preferences
[15:32]	Amaya Summers:	I am sking for something in preferances that allows one to edit the size of the font elements
[15:34]	JaneD DeCuir:	and the objects to move in the inventory should be slower, especially when you move several item together
[15:34]	Amaya Summers:	notice I was able to change the actual font face adn weight
[15:35]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hello hello!
[15:35]	JaneD DeCuir:	ben, soemthing wrong?
[15:35]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry, I got pulled away momentarily
[15:35]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Jacek
[15:35]	Benjamin Linden:	:-)
[15:36]	Jacek Antonelli:	Sorry I'm late. Is there a topic for today?
[15:36]	Benjamin Linden:	we're discussing options for increasing the font size to improve accessibility
[15:36]	JaneD DeCuir:	i dont have any idea
[15:37]	Benjamin Linden:	Amaya, I'm just reviewing the forum posts now
[15:37]	JaneD DeCuir:	crashed
[15:38]	JaneD DeCuir:	what would you said that this transparent menu would be changed from LL in the near future? possible or dont?
[15:38]	JaneD DeCuir:	ben?
[15:40]	Benjamin Linden:	JaneD, are you asking about the Dazzle menu colors?
[15:40]	JaneD DeCuir:	yes
[15:40]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure which menus you're referring to
[15:40]	JaneD DeCuir:	all
[15:40]	Benjamin Linden:	ok, so you think they're too transparent?
[15:40]	JaneD DeCuir:	white letter on a white background are not usable
[15:40]	JaneD DeCuir:	yes i think
[15:40]	JaneD DeCuir:	the old with solid background was better viewable
[15:40]	Benjamin Linden:	there should not be white letters on white background
[15:41]	Benjamin Linden:	can you send me a screenshot of what you're seeing?
[15:41]	JaneD DeCuir:	yes
[15:41]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks
[15:41]	Amaya Summers:	had no idea I crashed lol
[15:41]	Amaya Summers:	missed everything after Ben said hi to someone
[15:42]	Jurin Juran:	hey dizzy
[15:42]	Benjamin Linden:	Amaya, I'm going to import this bug into our internal system and start some discussion to see if we can do anything about it
[15:42]	Benjamin Linden:	Jacek, did you want me to look at the billboard you're wearing? :-)
[15:43]	Benjamin Linden:	squirrel, do you know why my companion cube isn't physical?
[15:43]	Benjamin Linden:	the first one I had was
[15:43]	JaneD DeCuir gave you Snapshot : Linden Village - Benjamin Linden, Beaumont (147, 165.
[15:43]	Amaya Summers:	breaths a HUGE sigh of relief.. thank you BEn .. thank you for at least starting something and hearing me :)
[15:43]	Jacek Antonelli:	I was just not sure what the "transparent menus" was about... mine don't seem transparent?
[15:43]	JaneD DeCuir:	white on white ben
[15:43]	Squirrel Wood:	mayhaps it is colliding with something
[15:43]	Benjamin Linden:	JaneD, this looks like the current UI to me
[15:43]	Squirrel Wood:	that "white" text is grayed out / disabled options ?
[15:43]	JaneD DeCuir:	yes
[15:43]	Benjamin Linden:	what am I supposed to be looking at?
[15:44]	JaneD DeCuir:	sometimes i let the menus open to do something
[15:44]	Benjamin Linden:	JaneD, I put your image up on the board here, I hope that's ok
[15:45]	Benjamin Linden:	can you clarify what it is that you want me to look at?
[15:45]	JaneD DeCuir:	and how?
[15:45]	JaneD DeCuir:	there it is..
[15:45]	Squirrel Wood:	german ^^
[15:45]	JaneD DeCuir:	yes
[15:45]	JaneD DeCuir:	auf deutsch wäre das einfacher
[15:46]	MAlbers Longstaff:	Hi all. Sorry for bopping in-and-out. I had some major technical issues. My machine rebotted.
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden:	Jacek, how did you change the background color of the floating chat color?
[15:46]	Jacek Antonelli:	I made a patch for it, put it up on the JIRA a couple weeks ago. I made it follow the "Chat Bubble" color from preferences
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli:	I wanted to see what a light background looked like, since we were discussing it that week
[15:47]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, wow, that's great, very helpful
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli:	But I found that the dark text was hard to read against low-opacity white backgrounds, so I had to bump up the opacity
[15:47]	Benjamin Linden:	I agree it's not an ideal solution
[15:48]	Benjamin Linden:	frankly, I'm not sure how to proceed with this particular issue
[15:48]	Squirrel Wood:	Have you ever considered using a clear background and surround the text with a black outline ?
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	Personally I'm not convinced the dark text on white background is appropriate for SL as an application
[15:48]	Benjamin Linden:	do you mean generally Jacek or just in the floating text part?
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	For a word processor, maybe. But SL has the world as the main feature, and the light backgrounds distract my eyes from the world.
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	In general
[15:48]	Benjamin Linden:	or *all* windows
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli:	All over the SL UI, I would prefer light text against a dark background
[15:49]	JaneD DeCuir:	im yes
[15:49]	Benjamin Linden:	JaneD, are you agreeing with Jacek?
[15:49]	Amaya Summers:	actually .. just need to be able to turn off that dang fade feature
[15:49]	JaneD DeCuir:	yes
[15:50]	Benjamin Linden:	how do others feel, who've used dazzle?
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	I also noticed it was hard to tell the difference between objects chatting and people chatting, when they were both dark text (dark purple and dark blue look the same against that glaring white bg, hehe)
[15:50]	Benjamin Linden:	we would have different default colors for objects, etc, before releasing dazzle
[15:50]	Benjamin Linden:	because the current colors don't work very well with the new palette
[15:51]	Jacek Antonelli:	Agreed, but finding new colors that are both readable and distinct from each other is much more difficult in Dazzle than it was in the old UI
[15:52]	Amaya Summers:	gold against a Navy background is workable and accessible
[15:52]	Amaya Summers:	black on a buff background is also good
[15:52]	JaneD DeCuir:	lol
[15:52]	Amaya Summers:	I"m seriouse .. this has been proven
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	text colors are definitely tricky
[15:53]	JaneD DeCuir:	lol
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	Squirrel, you've used Dazzle right, do you have any thoughts?
[15:53]	Squirrel Wood:	Use color guides to find good colors ?
[15:53]	Amaya Summers:	they can be.. I have done a lot of research on that for website development.. I try to make my sites accessible
[15:54]	Benjamin Linden:	Jurin & Jason, have you tried Dazzle?
[15:54]	Jacek Antonelli:	VWR-3202 is the patch to make the chat console background colorable, btw
[15:54]	Jurin Juran:	i'm gonna switch to it...this newest windlight keeps crashing me
[15:54]	Squirrel Wood:	http://www.visibone.com/colorlab/big.html
[15:54]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Jacek, that's fantastic
[15:54]	Jacek Antonelli:	It was imported the other day as DEV-6610
[15:54]	Jacek Antonelli:	Today, actually
[15:54]	Amaya Summers:	it's in teh debug menu to but does not hold when set.. have tried
[15:54]	Harleen Gretzky:	What's Dazzle?
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden:	it's a preview version of a new look for the Viewer UI
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_Visual_Update
[15:55]	Amaya Summers:	mind yuou have treid with the first look clients and teh main client
[15:55]	Jurin Juran:	its pretty awesome actually benjamin
[15:55]	Jurin Juran:	i just was tempted with teh windlight
[15:55]	JaneD DeCuir:	ben, what would you think when the windlight client changes from a optionable viewer to the basic viewer?
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden:	what's the question, JaneD?
[15:56]	Benjamin Linden:	when will Windlight be in the main Viewer?
[15:56]	JaneD DeCuir:	yes
[15:56]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for the feedback Jurin
[15:56]	Squirrel Wood:	http://www.wellstyled.com/tools/colorscheme2/index-en.html color scheme generator
[15:56]	Benjamin Linden:	JaneD, windlight will be in first look for a while
[15:56]	Amaya Summers:	Ben , please tell the internal team that I am willing to answer questiosn and alpha test.. I amused to doing that.. no one better then one who needs it to double check
[15:56]	Benjamin Linden:	there are still some rendering issues that need to be worked out
[15:57]	JaneD DeCuir:	sounds not good because i like that "rendering" it makes
[15:57]	Benjamin Linden:	haha thanks Squirrel
[15:57]	Benjamin Linden:	just tweaking at this point, JaneD
[15:57]	Amaya Summers:	only wrong with windlilght is the ground rendering is way way to bright
[15:57]	JaneD DeCuir:	yes
[15:57]	Jurin Juran:	and still no speedtree
[15:57]	Squirrel Wood:	that generator also lets you see colors like color blind people see them
[15:57]	JaneD DeCuir:	or some objects are not viewable
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden:	Jacek, you raise a great point about Dazzle colors and it's something we need to think over some more
[15:58]	Amaya Summers:	now that's a good idea .. hmm think I need to try that viewer,, might find some accessibility options already there
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden:	feedback on dazzle has generally been quite positive
[15:58]	Jurin Juran:	yes i like dazzle
[15:58]	JaneD DeCuir:	what is dazzle?
[15:58]	Amaya Summers:	did not know it was out there
[15:58]	JaneD DeCuir:	WL?
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden:	but I recognize that a lot of people will want to stick with a darker color scheme
[15:59]	JaneD DeCuir:	a better readable color scheme
[15:59]	Benjamin Linden:	unfortunately it's probably not going to be practical for us to support multiple color schemes going forward
[15:59]	Amaya Summers:	it's easie rfo rme but deff a diff color for diferent types of windows is helpful
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli:	I've been thinking of making a dark variant of Dazzle. Called Razzle or Fizzle or something, hehe. I've converted some of the buttons already. *puts up another screenshot on her picture thingy*
[15:59]	JaneD DeCuir:	before client version 1.7 the scheme was better
[15:59]	Benjamin Linden:	ultimately we want to implement a truly skinnable UI architecture that will allow people to create skins that work best for them
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden:	what changed in 1.17 JaneD?
[16:00]	Amaya Summers:	Ben .. take a look at the Anarchy ONline UI system ..
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden:	good, I highly encourage that Jacek!
[16:00]	Amaya Summers:	very skinable
[16:00]	JaneD DeCuir:	the background in the menu from solid to transparent
[16:00]	JaneD DeCuir:	i hate it
[16:00]	Amaya Summers:	I used to beta test for them
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden:	in the SL viewer JaneD?
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden:	I don't see that?
[16:00]	JaneD DeCuir:	yes
[16:01]	Jacek Antonelli:	I haven't seen transparent menus either... except tore-off menus that don't have focus, maybe
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	did you see the purple dazzle skin that aliceinwire did, Jacek?
[16:01]	Amaya Summers:	are we able to skin Dazzle?
[16:01]	Jacek Antonelli:	I haven't, Ben. I'll take a look at that
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	she linked to it on the wiki page
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	ok folks I have to run to another meeting
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	let's pick this up again next week
[16:01]	Jason Swain:	Thanks Benjamin
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli:	Alrighty, take care Ben
[16:02]	Amaya Summers:	ty so much ben
[16:02]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for coming everyone!
[16:02]	Jurin Juran:	take care benjamin
[16:02]	Benjamin Linden:	take care!