User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Oct 11

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[15:04]	Squirrel Wood:	Holla ^^
[15:04]	Benjamin Linden:	hi guys
[15:04]	Squirrel Wood:	Nice and quiet today :)
[15:04]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, thursdays usually start out slow
[15:05]	Squirrel Wood:	How has your day been so far?
[15:05]	Saijanai Kuhn:	still working on me blasted keyword browser thing.
[15:05]	Saijanai Kuhn:	At least its too the point it reads a tree of categories and keywords and puts them in the right lists
[15:06]	Saijanai Kuhn:	now working on opening and closing the "folders"
[15:06]	Saijanai Kuhn:	last step, getting teh keyword to paste into the edit window
[15:06]	Kooky Jetaime:	Hi Benji!
[15:06]	Kooky Jetaime:	((Brb))
[15:06]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Kooky
[15:06]	Benjamin Linden:	hey Benja
[15:06]	Squirrel Wood:	autocomplete for the lsl editor window would be... wonderful ^^
[15:07]	Saijanai Kuhn:	bah. Have you seen the code for the text editer itself. Not touching it
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	Sai, the stuff you're working on would be a fantastic addition
[15:08]	Squirrel Wood:	Definitely
[15:08]	Squirrel Wood:	Hello Alexa
[15:08]	Saijanai Kuhn:	asuming my head and heart don't explode first
[15:08]	Alexa Linden:	Hi Squirrel :)
[15:09]	Saijanai Kuhn:	this is the first major piece of code I've written since I got sick about 10 yeas ago
[15:09]	Benjamin Linden:	hey there Alexa!
[15:09]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[15:09]	Benjamin Linden:	nice dress
[15:09]	Saijanai Kuhn:	brain was NOT working for a while (mold neuro-toxins)
[15:09]	Alexa Linden:	:D
[15:09]	Alexa Linden:	ty
[15:09]	Benjamin Linden:	yikes that sounds scary Sai
[15:09]	Kooky Jetaime:	Yep
[15:09]	Kooky Jetaime:	nice dress
[15:09]	Saijanai Kuhn:	eh, do I know you?
[15:10]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm curious about your name, Sai, where does it come from?
[15:10]	Saijanai Kuhn:	seriously, at my worst, i could not coun t to 10 mentally, without getting lost So spacey I didn't realize that til I started getting better
[15:10]	Benjamin Linden:	sounds like that book Flowers for Algernon
[15:11]	Saijanai Kuhn:	in reverse thankfully
[15:11]	Benjamin Linden:	right :-)
[15:11]	Saijanai Kuhn:	at least for now
[15:11]	Saijanai Kuhn:	"janai" is informal japanese for "am not" or "is not"
[15:11]	Saijanai Kuhn:	"Sai" is a character from a cartoon --the ghost of the greatest bo master who ever lived.
[15:12]	Saijanai Kuhn:	Kuhn sounds like "Kun" --young man
[15:12]	Saijanai Kuhn:	So I'm not Sai and I'm not young
[15:12]	Saijanai Kuhn:	great GO master who ever lived
[15:13]	Saijanai Kuhn:	if you go to the websites (or search avatars) there are hundreds of people with the name "sai"
[15:13]	Benjamin Linden:	interesting
[15:13]	Benjamin Linden:	I asked because I find it very hard to spell :-)
[15:13]	Saijanai Kuhn:	but only one who says he isn't (cause I know better0
[15:13]	Benjamin Linden:	hope you don't mind me just typing Sai for short
[15:13]	Saijanai Kuhn:	no problem. He's the ghost on the tshirt, btw. The one the kid is looking at
[15:14]	Benjamin Linden:	oh cool
[15:14]	Saijanai Kuhn:	best Kid's dram ever produced as a TV series, IMHO
[15:14]	Saijanai Kuhn:	The BBC did a news special on it years before it was translated into English
[15:14]	Benjamin Linden:	are you in Japan, Sai?
[15:14]	Saijanai Kuhn:	nya Arizona
[15:14]	Kooky Jetaime:	Hmm 489.. I had an interesting run in with mutliple attachments this morning in Aditi... I tried wearing my Black Widow, and it popped up : Unable to attach multiple attachments
[15:15]	Saijanai Kuhn:	Just an anime fan and really REALLY bad Go player
[15:15]	Benjamin Linden:	yeah I'm hoping we can do something related to that issue Kooky
[15:15]	Benjamin Linden:	it has so much support in the community
[15:15]	Saijanai Kuhn:	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyllVL9fpe0 BBC news blurb
[15:15]	Kooky Jetaime:	well, I was wondering why I was getting that with 1 object
[15:15]	Kooky Jetaime:	I just tried to wear 1 gun, and was getting that error
[15:16]	Kooky Jetaime:	When I dropped the gun on the ground, it attached OK
[15:16]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm that's odd
[15:16]	Benjamin Linden:	well if it's reproduceable you could file a bug
[15:16]	Kooky Jetaime:	it is in Aditi
[15:17]	Benjamin Linden:	I have a quick question for you guys, do any of the groups you're in use the voting tools?
[15:17]	Kooky Jetaime:	but I'll have to try it with other objects
[15:17]	Kooky Jetaime:	rarely
[15:17]	Kooky Jetaime:	very rarely
[15:17]	Squirrel Wood:	very rarely, yes
[15:18]	Benjamin Linden:	we ran some numbers and it looks like there are about 150 proposals a day
[15:18]	Squirrel Wood:	haven't had one in like, two months
[15:18]	Saijanai Kuhn:	a lot of time people use them as ways of getting a message out fast instead of notices
[15:18]	Alexa Linden:	stores use that function to advertise
[15:18]	Benjamin Linden:	which isn't a huge amount in the grand scheme of things but it's hard to measure how many people that affects
[15:18]	Benjamin Linden:	why would people use voting instead of notices, Sai?
[15:18]	Alexa Linden:	no idea
[15:18]	Squirrel Wood:	because notices sometimes are not shown to all group members?
[15:18]	Kooky Jetaime:	they used to do it
[15:18]	Kooky Jetaime:	yep
[15:19]	Alexa Linden:	could be
[15:19]	Kooky Jetaime:	what Squirrel said
[15:19]	Kooky Jetaime:	there was a long time that notices didn't go group wide
[15:19]	Kooky Jetaime:	votes bypassed that problem
[15:19]	Benjamin Linden:	that was a bug I assume
[15:19]	Squirrel Wood:	especially in larger groups
[15:19]	Alexa Linden:	right
[15:19]	Kooky Jetaime:	some may still be doing it
[15:19]	Alexa Linden:	right, just an old habit?
[15:19]	Benjamin Linden:	I remember there being chatter about group notices
[15:19]	Kooky Jetaime:	Ben - the better check would be if there are 150 proposals a day, how many votes are happening?
[15:20]	Squirrel Wood:	mayhaps monitor how many of the votes are actually being voted on ?
[15:20]	Alexa Linden:	good point
[15:20]	Kooky Jetaime throws a nut at Squirrel.. get outta my head!
[15:20]	Squirrel Wood:	teehee
[15:20]	Alexa Linden:	lol
[15:20]	Benjamin Linden:	that's a good idea Kooky
[15:20]	Benjamin Linden:	wow I'm surprised we don't have a bigger turnout today
[15:20]	Benjamin Linden:	were there lots of folks at the open source meeting?
[15:21]	Kooky Jetaime:	20 or so
[15:21]	Squirrel Wood:	it was prettyx quiet too
[15:21]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm
[15:21]	Benjamin Linden:	20 is quiet for open source?
[15:21]	Benjamin Linden:	that must be quite a hopping hour!
[15:21]	Squirrel Wood:	when about 30% of them are Lindens.. yes ^^
[15:21]	Benjamin Linden:	ah lol
[15:22]	Kooky Jetaime:	Soft, Rob, Poppy
[15:22]	Kooky Jetaime:	any others?
[15:22]	Squirrel Wood:	not today
[15:22]	Kooky Jetaime:	ben, heres a good question I'm sure I could find the answer for elsewhere But I'll ask
[15:22]	Benjamin Linden:	ok
[15:22]	Multi Gadget v1.52.0 by Timeless Prototype
[15:23]	Kooky Jetaime:	When we run across an item that is miscatagorized, how should we handle it? (IE: SVC not VWR, etc))
[15:23]	Alexa Linden:	.
[15:23]	Squirrel Wood:	Mark it somehow so it can be moved ?
[15:23]	Benjamin Linden:	you can move it
[15:24]	Benjamin Linden:	I haven't actually moved bugs between jira projects so I'm not sure how easy it is but I believe it can be done
[15:24]	Kooky Jetaime:	I don't think it can
[15:24]	Squirrel Wood:	there is an option for it, yes.
[15:24]	Squirrel Wood:	but I also believe that normal people are not allowed to move issues
[15:24]	Kooky Jetaime:	when you first open a new bug/feature request you have to give it the svc/vwr/etc, then the next screen creates it
[15:24]	Kooky Jetaime:	Ah
[15:25]	Kooky Jetaime:	SVC-235 needs to be moved to VWR
[15:25]	Alexa Linden:	I can move I belive
[15:25]	Kooky Jetaime:	Once you do I'll work on iti, since its a bug not a feature req.
[15:25]	Kooky Jetaime:	and if your wondering, its the fact that if you mute a object
[15:25]	Squirrel Wood:	Holla Teravus
[15:25]	Kooky Jetaime:	you only mute the prim that you right click on, not the entire linked object
[15:25]	Teravus Ousley:	Greetings :)
[15:26]	Kooky Jetaime:	and its been reprod
[15:26]	Squirrel Wood:	have you also tested that the mute works when the prim renames itself ?
[15:26]	Kooky Jetaime:	nope
[15:26]	Alexa Linden:	now VWR-2722
[15:26]	Kooky Jetaime:	since I am assuming that mute works on Key
[15:26]	Squirrel Wood:	might want to try that then
[15:26]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Alexa!
[15:26]	Alexa Linden:	np :)
[15:26]	Kooky Jetaime:	otherwise it would mute the linkset since it mutes the linksets name
[15:28]	Teravus Ousley:	:) Has anyone ever seen those animations that warp your avatar?
[15:28]	Alexa Linden:	yes :|
[15:28]	Benjamin Linden:	no, it sounds cool though
[15:28]	Benjamin Linden:	do you have one?
[15:28]	Alexa Linden:	and i got stuck :P
[15:28]	Benjamin Linden:	lol
[15:28]	Kooky Jetaime:	Here
[15:28]	Kooky Jetaime:	give me a copy
[15:28]	Teravus Ousley:	I do. I also have the ones that 'un warp' your avatar
[15:28]	Kooky Jetaime:	I have a unwarper now :)
[15:28]	Kooky Jetaime:	I need to test it
[15:28]	Benjamin Linden:	oh that would be helpful
[15:28]	Alexa Linden:	hahahahahhaa
[15:29]	Teravus Ousley:	I've been really debating making a product that makes use of that 'bug/feature' for really large avatar.
[15:29]	Benjamin Linden:	wow Teravus, your typing animation is cool!
[15:29]	Squirrel Wood gave you superdance.
[15:29]	Squirrel Wood:	the superdance gesture...
[15:29]	Squirrel Wood:	requires a relog
[15:29]	Benjamin Linden:	what does this do, Squirrel?
[15:30]	Alexa Linden:	Muahahahaha
[15:30]	Squirrel Wood:	deforms the entire avatar
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	lol
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	but if I relog it goes back to normal?
[15:30]	Teravus Ousley:	It causes the joint motions to be slightly tweaked.. however with some serious experimentation, You could anticipate it
[15:30]	Squirrel Wood:	Aye
[15:30]	Benjamin Linden:	ok well maybe I'll play with it later
[15:30]	Alexa Linden:	hahaha
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	Updated
[15:31]	Teravus Ousley demonstrates
[15:31]	Alexa Linden:	hahaha
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	very nice
[15:31]	Benjamin Linden:	oops I missed it
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	look at his avi now though
[15:31]	Teravus Ousley:	hehe I can re-demonstrate
[15:31]	Teravus Ousley:	well.. the point is how I look :)
[15:32]	Benjamin Linden:	you look the same as before to me
[15:32]	Alexa Linden:	really?
[15:32]	Alexa Linden:	not to me
[15:32]	Kooky Jetaime:	now he's back to the same
[15:32]	Teravus Ousley:	.. I just used the -un deform anims
[15:32]	Kooky Jetaime:	is that transferable Teravus?
[15:32]	Teravus Ousley:	.. re-demonstrating
[15:32]	Benjamin Linden:	haha oh now I see it
[15:33]	Benjamin Linden:	you look like a dali painting
[15:33]	Teravus Ousley:	well, I got it under the terms that If I give it to anyone, it has to be non transferrable from me
[15:33]	Alexa Linden:	totally!
[15:33]	Kooky Jetaime:	thats fine, I just wanna try my undoer
[15:33]	Teravus Ousley:	well.. the point of this conversation.. is with the joints stretched out.. You can make animations that are really large
[15:33]	Squirrel Wood:	the superdance really deforms the avatar badly
[15:34]	Benjamin Linden:	I can't wait to see it :-)
[15:34]	Teravus Ousley:	the animations apparently make use of some anomoly in the client.xml file.
[15:34]	Benjamin Linden:	Alexa, why don't you show us? :-)
[15:34]	Alexa Linden:	rofl
[15:34]	Alexa Linden:	I have it on my resident
[15:34]	Alexa Linden:	good try though
[15:34]	Alexa Linden:	;)
[15:34]	Benjamin Linden:	lol
[15:35]	Benjamin Linden:	does anyone here read new world news?
[15:35]	Teravus Ousley:	I've 'kinda' got a development avatar.. not as advanced as it could be... but I can demonstrate that
[15:35]	Squirrel Wood:	ibm/sl universal avatar ?
[15:35]	Kooky Jetaime:	VWR-2722 is updated too, unless I'm repeating myself....
[15:35]	Kooky Jetaime:	new world news?
[15:35]	Benjamin Linden:	http://nwn.blogs.com/
[15:35]	Kooky Jetaime:	I think we all do cuz isn't old world news the bible or similar?
[15:35]	Kooky Jetaime plays his drum and symbal
[15:36]	Benjamin Linden:	well I was more specifically wondering about the electric sheep viewer
[15:36]	Benjamin Linden:	wow Teravus
[15:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	Ben - talk to Catherine
[15:37]	Kooky Jetaime:	Its my understanding that she held her office hour today using it.
[15:37]	Teravus Ousley:	This makes use of that 'feature'
[15:38]	Teravus Ousley:	:)
[15:38]	Kooky Jetaime:	its too biggg
[15:38]	Benjamin Linden:	I've used it as well
[15:38]	Benjamin Linden:	curious if you had thoughts on the screenshots posted on NWN
[15:38]	Teravus Ousley isn't sure if those animations will continue to cause the avatar to be warped. and that's been his main stop in making an avatar using it.
[15:40]	Squirrel Wood:	At first glance the UI does look a lot smoother, but apparently there is not much being shown of it.
[15:41]	Benjamin Linden:	that's true, Squirrel
[15:41]	Kooky Jetaime:	I like that line : "Is this the beginning of an AOL-ized Second Life?"
[15:41]	Benjamin Linden:	lol yes, I think it's something to be sensitive too
[15:42]	Teravus Ousley:	Yeah. AOL-ized is a good word for it
[15:42]	Kooky Jetaime:	we just got rid of one AOL
[15:42]	Kooky Jetaime:	now we gotta deal with SLOL?
[15:42]	Teravus Ousley:	however, I like the concatenation of the browser style interface with the SL interface
[15:42]	Kooky Jetaime:	I think a travel history is a good idea for being built into the client
[15:43]	Kooky Jetaime:	but I hate the idea of "Back / forward / home" buttons
[15:43]	Teravus Ousley:	Regardless of the 'EyeCandy' I think the 'location' in the address bar is a step towards the initiative of 'the 3d web'
[15:43]	Benjamin Linden:	why's that Kooky?
[15:43]	Kooky Jetaime:	everythings not quite a matter of forward or backwards
[15:43]	Teravus Ousley adds that it is.. if you use search..
[15:44]	Kooky Jetaime:	if you want a home button, set your "Home" key on your keyboard to take you home
[15:44]	Kooky Jetaime:	but it makes very little sense for people who don't have homes
[15:44]	Teravus Ousley:	you search .. and when you go to a location on search, it goes into your 'back' list. :)
[15:44]	Kooky Jetaime:	(meaning those who just arrive at a infohub)
[15:45]	Squirrel Wood:	back button may pose a wanted feature for griefers to immediately return so a place they have been kicked out of
[15:45]	Kooky Jetaime:	true
[15:45]	Alexa Linden:	good point
[15:45]	Kooky Jetaime:	but
[15:45]	Kooky Jetaime:	just because something can be used for evil doesn't mean it will only be used
[15:45]	Squirrel Wood:	so I would not record the last location in the history if you were ejected, kicked, banned or sent home
[15:45]	Kooky Jetaime:	I mean, on that pretext, lets eliminate 16m parcels
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, that's not a good reason not to implement something
[15:46]	Kooky Jetaime:	the 16m parcel came from last meeting Ben
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden:	what about it Kooky
[15:47]	Squirrel Wood:	Hmm... I would require small parcels that are only used for advertising to be flagged as "Advertising" and provide an option in the prefs dialog to disable the audiovisual rendering of content on such parcels
[15:47]	Kooky Jetaime:	you can buy Herman Miller Aeron chairs in SL now? cooll
[15:48]	Benjamin Linden:	haha yes
[15:48]	Squirrel Wood:	but that's me :)
[15:48]	Kooky Jetaime:	I like that idea Squirrel
[15:48]	Squirrel Wood:	wanna jira it? ^^
[15:48]	Kooky Jetaime:	but I hate the idea of more land flags
[15:48]	Benjamin Linden:	and marking something as "Advertising" would be highly subjective
[15:49]	Kooky Jetaime:	you could argue my comment ont he chairs was advertising
[15:49]	Teravus Ousley:	hehe
[15:49]	Benjamin Linden:	right
[15:50]	Alexa Linden:	test
[15:50]	Kooky Jetaime:	Failed
[15:50]	Alexa Linden:	.
[15:50]	Alexa Linden:	lol
[15:50]	Alexa Linden:	.
[15:50]	Teravus Ousley:	>.>
[15:50]	Teravus Ousley:	<.<
[15:50]	Alexa Linden:	lag
[15:51]	Kooky Jetaime:	what kind?
[15:51]	Squirrel Wood:	Well, a 16m² parcel can hold three prims. one usually is land sales/rental adertising and since gambling is outlawed, the other two usually tend to bei either more land sales ads or pr0n
[15:51]	Teravus Ousley:	You will have to excuse me. I've got a storm and a lightning strike was pretty close.
[15:51]	Teravus Ousley:	I'll catch you later sometime :)
[15:51]	Alexa Linden:	Be safe
[15:51]	Benjamin Linden:	ok Teravus
[15:51]	Benjamin Linden:	take care!
[15:51]	Teravus Ousley:	You too :)
[15:51]	Kooky Jetaime:	pron
[15:52]	Kooky Jetaime:	porn.... best said in Sim City... "Can't get Enough"
[15:52]	Benjamin Linden:	lol yeah I was like what is pr0n
[15:52]	Squirrel Wood:	sex shops, sex bars, general (sex) bars, sex toys, genitalia, ... that kind of stuff :p
[15:52]	Kooky Jetaime:	((if you have a copy of Sim City 2000 around, play it, and just tyoe "porn" in it really DOES say that... Verbally)
[15:52]	Alexa Linden:	hahahahaha
[15:52]	Benjamin Linden:	haha really?
[15:52]	Kooky Jetaime:	yep
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	that's hilarious
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	I don't think I have that version
[15:53]	Kooky Jetaime:	love those easter eggs from the 80s/90s before kids used computers
[15:53]	Alexa Linden:	dang, I'd need to rip my garage apart to find all my old sim games
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	http://www.eeggs.com/items/339.html
[15:54]	Kooky Jetaime:	what, didn't believe me?
[15:54]	Kooky Jetaime chuckles
[15:54]	Benjamin Linden:	haha no, I was just curious what else was in there
[15:54]	Alexa Linden:	I used to love to find E Eggs in games
[15:54]	Benjamin Linden:	but I'm notorious in my family for disproving things using snopes
[15:54]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm getting really bad lag
[15:54]	Kooky Jetaime glances back and smiles....
[15:55]	Akoe Eros gives a soft smile up to Kooky as I kneel beside him
[15:55]	Squirrel Wood:	Shhh.... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-632 ^^
[15:56]	Kooky Jetaime:	Akoe, this is Alexia and Ben Linden.. Squirrel (watch out, she's always giving away nuts) and Sai
[15:56]	Kooky Jetaime:	everyone this is Akoe
[15:56]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Akoe
[15:56]	Alexa Linden:	Hi Akoe :)
[15:56]	Alexa Linden:	pleased to meet you
[15:56]	Akoe Eros grins nodding to everyone, "Pleased to meet you all"
[15:56]	Kooky Jetaime:	Squirrel... jeesh
[15:56]	Kooky Jetaime:	havn't we all voted for this one yet?
[15:56]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[15:56]	Kooky Jetaime:	at least all of us here? :)
[15:56]	Benjamin Linden:	Squirrel is hardcore about this one
[15:56]	Squirrel Wood:	Indeedy
[15:57]	Benjamin Linden:	you should recruit someone in OS to build it!
[15:57]	Kooky Jetaime:	Thats why I'm glad I linked VWR-2438 to it
[15:57]	Squirrel Wood:	Misc-707 ? ^^
[15:57]	Kooky Jetaime:	oh
[15:57]	Squirrel Wood:	though that one's been imported already ^^
[15:57]	Kooky Jetaime:	don't use voice so thats not me
[15:57]	Kooky Jetaime:	Actually, more people are looking at doing the building tools
[15:58]	Kooky Jetaime:	Ben - is the 90% transparency limitation server side or client
[15:58]	Kooky Jetaime:	?
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not aware of that limit, Kooky
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden:	what does it relate to?
[15:58]	Kooky Jetaime:	Setting face transparency
[15:58]	Kooky Jetaime:	on a prim
[15:58]	Alexa Linden:	good question
[15:58]	Kooky Jetaime:	in the UI you can only go up to 90%
[15:58]	Alexa Linden:	I've wondered that too
[15:58]	Kooky Jetaime:	but you can script it to 100%
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden:	interesting, I'm not sure
[15:59]	Squirrel Wood:	ye. the edit tools only allow for 90% transparency. scripts can go up to 100% (unless they are internally capped)
[15:59]	Kooky Jetaime:	Jinx!
[15:59]	Saijanai Kuhn:	building tools are a hair subject, IMHO.
[15:59]	Saijanai Kuhn:	someone on the wiki posted a bit of building code. Not a clue how it worked
[15:59]	Kooky Jetaime:	Sai - More or less hairy than the inventory?
[15:59]	Kooky Jetaime grins
[16:00]	Saijanai Kuhn:	technically hair instead of design-hairy I think
[16:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	Well
[16:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	I think if someone wants to do the build tools to be more functional
[16:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	the entire build tools need to be rethought
[16:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	because adding another tab/substantially more stuff is gonna crowd an already crowded window
[16:01]	Saijanai Kuhn:	they're still better than anyone else's out there. Croquet in theory could have beetter tools, but they tell everyone to use .obj files
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	I agree the build tools need work
[16:01]	Kooky Jetaime:	Also, something else to consider would be what about local-build rendering, with less frequent commit changes (say every 5-30 seconds instead of every individual change)
[16:01]	Kooky Jetaime:	should significantly reduce server loads
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure it's the top priority however, since it's largely a tool for advanced users
[16:02]	Benjamin Linden:	and we're really trying to help ease transition into second life for new users
[16:02]	Kooky Jetaime:	and packet loss would be much less an issue from second to second
[16:02]	Benjamin Linden:	without losing site of our current users of course
[16:02]	Kooky Jetaime:	Ben - VWR-2438
[16:02]	Saijanai Kuhn thinks there are 5 possible (main) levels of building tools
[16:02]	Turtle: tools? <snort>
[16:02]	Turtle thinks Saijanai is full of himself
[16:02]	Kooky Jetaime:	I'll have to teach Akoe how to use jira to get her voting on things
[16:02]	Saijanai Kuhn:	right now we only have 2 (with maybe a 3rd sorta there
[16:02]	Saijanai Kuhn:	right now its in-world and external apps
[16:03]	Kooky Jetaime:	what would really rock is some DDE support, build something in a 3d modeling application, then have it transpit the build to SL, and let the client be semi-automated
[16:03]	Kooky Jetaime:	brb
[16:03]	Benjamin Linden:	actually we need to wrap up folks
[16:04]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm out of time and the lag is killing me
[16:04]	Squirrel Wood:	I'll see if I can cook up some UI for building
[16:04]	Benjamin Linden:	let's take up this discussion next week
[16:04]	Benjamin Linden:	I know there's a lot we can talk about
[16:04]	Benjamin Linden:	and Squirrel, if you want to do some mockups that'd be great
[16:04]	Saijanai Kuhn:	what it could be is: external apps, plugins that work like external apps, plugins that work like a hybrid that makes you think you're inwrld when youre not (like the avatar editor but more so), private 1-person sandboxes, limited person sandboxes, and in-world
[16:04]	Squirrel Wood:	I'll try my best then :)
[16:04]	Benjamin Linden:	ok thanks everyone!
[16:05]	Squirrel Wood:	A mini-offline sim
[16:05]	Alexa Linden:	bye everyone :)
[16:05]	Squirrel Wood:	Cyas ^^
[16:05]	Akoe Eros:	Take care *smiles*
[16:05]	Saijanai Kuhn:	take care Benjamin