User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2008-02-07
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Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:
| [15:02] | Chaos Mohr: | Hi Benjamin :) |
| [15:02] | Benjamin Linden: | good afternoon everyone |
| [15:02] | Jacek Antonelli: | hey Ben! |
| [15:02] | Squirrel Wood: | ^^ |
| [15:02] | Michael Cela: | nice armor there, Ben :) |
| [15:02] | Jacek Antonelli: | Oooh, tiny pony Jason. Kyooot :D |
| [15:02] | Squirrel Wood: | Wheee! |
| [15:02] | Benjamin Linden: | hey Jacek |
| [15:02] | Squirrel Wood: | Ben! The 1.19 UI is totally borken |
| [15:02] | Benjamin Linden: | Squirrel |
| [15:02] | Jason Swain: | Hello Benjamin and Malbers |
| [15:02] | Benjamin Linden: | :-( |
| [15:02] | Malbers Linden: | hey jason |
| [15:02] | Squirrel Wood: | Hello Malbers :) |
| [15:03] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Jason |
| [15:03] | Benjamin Linden: | hey Malbers |
| [15:03] | Malbers Linden: | hey squirrel |
| [15:03] | Jacek Antonelli: | hehe. I wouldn't call it _totally_ broken, but there are some things that people don't seem to like much |
| [15:03] | Benjamin Linden: | hmm Release Keys, perhaps? |
| [15:03] | Benjamin Linden: | :-) |
| [15:03] | Squirrel Wood: | IM's don't ding anymore, don't flash anymore... easy to overlook :( |
| [15:03] | Chaos Mohr: | lol perhaps? |
| [15:03] | Jacek Antonelli: | Yes, lots of complaints about that, lol |
| [15:03] | Michael Cela: | I haven't been fond of the UI changes that were made with the 1.18.5 series either |
| [15:03] | Benjamin Linden: | they don't ding? |
| [15:03] | Squirrel Wood: | nope |
| [15:03] | Benjamin Linden: | as in no sound? |
| [15:03] | Michael Cela: | especially how the friends/IM windows are laid out |
| [15:04] | Squirrel Wood: | correct |
| [15:04] | Benjamin Linden: | hmm, I hadn't seen that reported yet |
| [15:04] | Benjamin Linden: | I'll check into it |
| [15:04] | Jacek Antonelli: | Hmm, someone send me an IM so I can see? |
| [15:04] | Jacek Antonelli: | or hear |
| [15:04] | Jacek Antonelli: | (or not hear) |
| [15:04] | Michael Cela: | done |
| [15:04] | Chaos Mohr: | I must say though after a bout of hardware/software testing today, I think people overexagerrate SL's ability to not be able to run in some configurations - I believe I managed one today that hasn't been done before |
| [15:05] | Benjamin Linden: | Michael, which changes are you referring to? |
| [15:05] | Jacek Antonelli: | I got a ding from Jason's and Squirrel's IMs. I didn't get one from Michael, because I already had an IM session open with him |
| [15:05] | Michael Cela: | one sec |
| [15:05] | Jacek Antonelli: | heya Phli |
| [15:05] | Squirrel Wood: | Also, CTRL-W now closes the communicate window instead of closing the active tab... |
| [15:05] | Squirrel Wood: | the tabs stay open |
| [15:05] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, I've recommended changing that back |
| [15:05] | Phli Foxchase: | Heya :) |
| [15:05] | Michael Cela: | I need to relog a second to look |
| [15:06] | Benjamin Linden: | the thinking behind the tab flashing is that when there are too many of them and they keep flashing it's very distracting |
| [15:06] | Squirrel Wood: | and the history window and chat input do not lose focus on esc |
| [15:06] | Benjamin Linden: | so we wanted something that would be more subtle |
| [15:06] | Squirrel Wood: | (has already been jira'd and imported methinks) |
| [15:06] | Benjamin Linden: | I think we erred on the side of too subtle |
| [15:06] | Benjamin Linden: | it should flash for longer and more prominently |
| [15:06] | Jacek Antonelli: | I heard one person suggest that the color of the tab when you have an IM waiting should be more different from the regular color |
| [15:06] | Squirrel Wood: | have them flash like a dozen times and then stop...? |
| [15:07] | Jason Swain: | The onlything that I have noticed is that when the local chat bar is open it covers up the standup botton |
| [15:07] | Benjamin Linden: | my original suggestion was 3 flashes |
| [15:07] | Benjamin Linden: | but they flash so quickly that it doesn't last long enough |
| [15:07] | Squirrel Wood: | 3 may be too short |
| [15:07] | Benjamin Linden: | right, we need to experiment with it a bit |
| [15:07] | Jason Swain: | I have to admit I find the IMs not flashing alot less distracting |
| [15:07] | Michael Cela: | okay I think the biggest complaint I have is the layout of the Communicate section |
| [15:07] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks Jason |
| [15:07] | Squirrel Wood: | oh... also the release keys / stand up buttons like to separate themselves from the bottom bar when the chat line is open |
| [15:07] | Chaos Mohr: | Benjamin, may I pass you a screenie to pass on to some of the devs? - a truly unique way of running SL :) |
| [15:08] | Benjamin Linden: | sure Chaos |
| [15:08] | Michael Cela: | I like the old layout, but I can see the reason behind some of the changes with the inclusion of voice. |
| [15:08] | Chaos Mohr gave you WinServ08RemoteDesktop. | |
| [15:09] | Benjamin Linden: | Michael, which layout changes are causing problems for you? |
| [15:09] | Jason Swain: | An old friend that hadn't logged on this year, logged on this evening on the new WL and thought that the UI was alot "cleaner" |
| [15:09] | Benjamin Linden: | Chaos, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at here? |
| [15:09] | Squirrel Wood: | http://www.dream.at/temp/buttons/buttons_a.png vs http://www.dream.at/temp/buttons/buttons_b.png |
| [15:10] | Benjamin Linden: | when does that happen, Squirrel? |
| [15:10] | Michael Cela: | okay, I should probably be more clear on my issues with the UI... they're not so much function issues but just the overal cosmetic design. They just look too bulky, and I prefer the simplistic layout from the 1.18.0 series |
| [15:10] | Benjamin Linden: | buttons_b? |
| [15:10] | Chaos Mohr: | hehe - Vista X64 desktop, connected via Termial Services Remote desktop to a machine running Server 2008 with SL running on it through the remote desktop :) |
| [15:10] | Squirrel Wood: | whenever I bring up the chat line... though its random when it decides to start doing it |
| [15:10] | Jason Swain: | Thats interesting... I havent had that problem Squirrel but I do find the local chat bar covers up the release keys / stand up buttons |
| [15:10] | Benjamin Linden: | can you be a bit more specific, Michael, which UI elements are you referring to? |
| [15:10] | Squirrel Wood: | close the chat line and they go back in place |
| [15:11] | Benjamin Linden: | wow, interesting Chaos |
| [15:11] | Benjamin Linden: | yeah, I'm surprised that runs too |
| [15:11] | Chaos Mohr: | they said it couldn't be done - had to try ;) |
| [15:11] | Benjamin Linden: | there clearly are some layout issues with the those pop-up buttons |
| [15:12] | Benjamin Linden: | I'd like to figure out a way to get rid of them |
| [15:12] | Benjamin Linden: | Malbers is working to come up with a solution :-) |
| [15:12] | Jacek Antonelli: | Yay, solution :D |
| [15:12] | Chaos Mohr: | props on the new land sales confirmation dialog on the new viewer though - a much needed improvement :) |
| [15:12] | Michael Cela: | I suck at articulation sorry :) |
| [15:12] | Benjamin Linden: | it was proposed to move Release Keys to the menus |
| [15:12] | Malbers Linden: | dang, i thought i could just sit here quietly |
| [15:12] | Michael Cela: | working on it |
| [15:12] | Benjamin Linden: | but doesn't that button eject people from vehicles and such? |
| [15:12] | Squirrel Wood: | mayhaps add a button "controls" or something that, like the communicate button, pops up options to release/stand up/etc |
| [15:13] | Benjamin Linden: | I worry about hiding that functionality away somewhere |
| [15:13] | Benjamin Linden: | especially for new users |
| [15:13] | Jacek Antonelli: | As a side effect, it will eject you from vehicles, detach attachments that are controlling your keys, etc |
| [15:13] | Jason Swain: | Oh I really love the profile partner link... that makes things alot easier |
| [15:13] | Squirrel Wood: | Oh! I would like to see an option to hide that button bar at the bottom... I prefer using the keyboard shortcuts anyway :) |
| [15:14] | Michael Cela: | that would be a nice option too :) |
| [15:14] | Benjamin Linden: | yes Squirrel, that's definitely on my list |
| [15:14] | Malbers Linden: | that's the tradeoff -- expose the keys for new residents but hide them for experienced residents |
| [15:14] | Michael Cela: | definitely declutters the UI |
| [15:14] | Squirrel Wood: | when several attachments have key controls it may want to ask which one you want to deny permissions to control the keys |
| [15:14] | Kerry Giha: | I also love that message you get that tells you where you just were when you TP |
| [15:14] | Benjamin Linden: | but doesn't some in-world content *rely* on you to click the Release Keys button to use it correctly? |
| [15:14] | Phli Foxchase: | But why there is an orange circle around the partner link ? |
| [15:15] | Jacek Antonelli: | I haven't heard of anything like that, Benjamin. Doesn't mean it's not out there, of course |
| [15:15] | Benjamin Linden: | Phli, the orange highlight indicates that control has keyboard focus |
| [15:15] | Phli Foxchase: | is that essential ? |
| [15:15] | Squirrel Wood: | Yes |
| [15:15] | Benjamin Linden: | it is for people who use keyboard nav |
| [15:16] | Benjamin Linden: | you can hit tab to move it around |
| [15:16] | Phli Foxchase: | ok |
| [15:16] | Squirrel Wood: | After all YOU want to know where your key presses go to |
| [15:16] | Phli Foxchase: | I didn't know |
| [15:16] | Benjamin Linden: | it probably should start on the tabs themselves initially |
| [15:16] | Jacek Antonelli: | Hmmm. Another unpopular change I've heard some people talking about is that the Escape key doesn't remove keyboard focus from the Communicate window anymore |
| [15:17] | Benjamin Linden: | so it sounds like moving Release Keys to the menus would be a viable option |
| [15:17] | Gia May: | YES! |
| [15:17] | Phli Foxchase: | yes ! |
| [15:17] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, I believe there's a bug for that |
| [15:17] | Squirrel Wood: | Jacek, that is the history window only |
| [15:17] | Gia May: | Jacek: that is exactly what I came here to bitch about |
| [15:17] | Gia May: | the "Local Chat" |
| [15:17] | Squirrel Wood: | If you detach it you notice |
| [15:17] | Jacek Antonelli: | Ah |
| [15:17] | Michael Cela: | btw my problem with the UI is the consolidation of the IM and Friends window into the Communicate function, but now I'm starting to see why it's there :) |
| [15:17] | Squirrel Wood: | local chat / history has already been Jira'd multiple times :) |
| [15:18] | Jason Swain wonders if this is an UI problem, "If a script in the root prim of a linkset attached to an avatar request 'Take Controls' perms the script gets controls automaticly but if the script is not in the root prim then the user is prompted to accept or deny the request" | |
| [15:18] | Jacek Antonelli: | Hrmm. That's curious, Jason |
| [15:18] | Benjamin Linden: | is that an error message, Jason? |
| [15:18] | Jason Swain: | No its just a llDialogue like message |
| [15:19] | Benjamin Linden: | glad you're getting used to the new layout, Michael |
| [15:19] | Jason Swain: | but for granting permissions |
| [15:19] | Michael Cela: | I still don't like it, but I'll manage :) |
| [15:19] | Benjamin Linden: | as an FYI, in 1.19.0 you will be able to detach the Contacts tab from the communicate window |
| [15:19] | Jacek Antonelli: | Aha! |
| [15:19] | Gia May: | did someone mention that the IM tabs don't flash anymore, which is bad? I just got here |
| [15:19] | Michael Cela: | I prefer the separation into the IM/Friends setup from the pre-voice clients |
| [15:19] | Phli Foxchase: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4541 <-- comments about the release keys :) |
| [15:19] | Jacek Antonelli: | Yay! It works. *detaches contacts* :D |
| [15:20] | Benjamin Linden: | why do you prefer then separat, Michael? |
| [15:20] | Benjamin Linden: | *separate |
| [15:20] | Michael Cela: | just been in SL so long it's something I've grown used to |
| [15:20] | Jacek Antonelli: | *also detaches Local chat... woo, it's almost like the old days* |
| [15:20] | Jacek Antonelli giggles | |
| [15:20] | Michael Cela: | hehehe Jacek |
| [15:20] | Benjamin Linden: | is there something about the new layout that makes it difficult for you to interact with the viewer? |
| [15:20] | Michael Cela: | no |
| [15:20] | Michael Cela: | just personal preference |
| [15:21] | Benjamin Linden: | ok |
| [15:21] | Squirrel Wood: | Okay. I have detached contacts/group and closed that window... how do I get it back? |
| [15:21] | Benjamin Linden: | good question Squirrel! |
| [15:21] | Jacek Antonelli: | Squirrel: on the bottom bar, there's a little arrow next to Communicate that pops up a menu |
| [15:21] | Benjamin Linden: | rather than me tell you, let's see if you can figure it out |
| [15:21] | Jacek Antonelli: | oops ^_^ |
| [15:21] | Benjamin Linden: | ack, Jacek gave it away |
| [15:21] | Benjamin Linden: | lol |
| [15:21] | Squirrel Wood: | Its not in the view menu and it did not reintegrate itself to the communicate window |
| [15:21] | Gia May: | did the region flag icons change because you spent a lot of money on a consultant who told you the new ones are better? |
| [15:21] | Benjamin Linden: | which window isn't in View, Squirrel? |
| [15:22] | Squirrel Wood: | I know that menu though a new player may wonder. which is why I asked that question :p |
| [15:22] | Benjamin Linden: | Gia, which flags are you referring to? |
| [15:22] | Jacek Antonelli: | Hmm, true. There's no menu item for Contacts. There's one for chat history, and IMs... |
| [15:22] | Squirrel Wood: | Contacts |
| [15:22] | Benjamin Linden: | ah yes |
| [15:22] | Benjamin Linden: | there is Friends and Groups |
| [15:22] | Gia May: | well, like "no flying" .. it used to be a downward-pointing red arrow, but now it looks like "no crucifiction" |
| [15:23] | Jacek Antonelli: | lol Gia |
| [15:23] | Phli Foxchase: | ^^ |
| [15:23] | Squirrel Wood: | No flying? not with me ^^ |
| [15:23] | Benjamin Linden: | we haven't done a great job updating the menus to reflect the layout changes |
| [15:23] | Benjamin Linden: | ah those icons |
| [15:23] | Michael Cela: | I'm downloading 1.19.0 right now to test it out :) |
| [15:23] | PersephoneGea Clary: | good afternoon or night |
| [15:24] | Benjamin Linden: | do you prefer the old icons, Gia? |
| [15:24] | Gia May: | and what about no building. A box with the circle-slash over it was replaced by a box with the circle-slash next to it... |
| [15:24] | Gia May: | I do |
| [15:24] | Jacek Antonelli: | hi Persephone and Jurin |
| [15:24] | Jurin Juran: | hello |
| [15:24] | PersephoneGea Clary: | hi MR Jacek |
| [15:24] | Benjamin Linden: | many people complained that the old icons were difficult to see and understand |
| [15:24] | Benjamin Linden: | hi Jurin |
| [15:24] | Benjamin Linden: | welcome Persephone |
| [15:24] | Jurin Juran: | i just keep hitting that release keys when i'm checking IM's LOL |
| [15:24] | Jacek Antonelli: | I think the new icon for "No Push" is humorous ^_^ |
| [15:25] | Jurin Juran: | i agree Jacek, i love that one |
| [15:25] | Gia May: | I bet those complaints continue. There is no internationally standardized symbology for these sorts of things |
| [15:25] | Michael Cela: | what's the new icon? |
| [15:25] | Jason Swain: | I think the new icon for "No Push" looks like it came from portal ^^ |
| [15:25] | Benjamin Linden: | lol |
| [15:25] | Jacek Antonelli: | It looks like a person getting shoved over with an arrow |
| [15:25] | Michael Cela: | hehehe |
| [15:25] | Jacek Antonelli: | yeah, reminded me of Portal, lol |
| [15:25] | Gia May: | "no push" kind of looks like "no hitting in the stomach while driving" |
| [15:25] | Jacek Antonelli: | lol Gia |
| [15:25] | Benjamin Linden: | cake will be served at the end of this meeting |
| [15:25] | Jason Swain: | LOL |
| [15:26] | Gia May: | lies |
| [15:26] | Jurin Juran: | hehe |
| [15:26] | Jason Swain waits for Ben to serve the cake | |
| [15:26] | Benjamin Linden: | where is the church music coming from? |
| [15:26] | Jacek Antonelli: | Okay. So we have 1) No Crucifiction. 2) No Punching Stomach While Driving, and 3) No Boxes Allowed |
| [15:26] | Benjamin Linden: | man, you guys are a tough crowd :-) |
| [15:26] | Jacek Antonelli: | :D |
| [15:26] | Michael Cela: | hehehe :D |
| [15:26] | Jurin Juran: | i like the new icons |
| [15:26] | Squirrel Wood: | ^^ |
| [15:27] | Jurin Juran: | but the release keys needs to stay in one spot |
| [15:27] | Gia May: | I'm sure I'll get used to them |
| [15:27] | Michael Cela: | I haven't installed 1.19 yet |
| [15:27] | Jurin Juran: | it moves around |
| [15:27] | Benjamin Linden: | Jason, lay on the ground quietly until cake is served |
| [15:27] | Squirrel Wood: | Mmmm. Gregorian Chants ^^ |
| [15:27] | Squirrel Wood: | Ah! |
| [15:27] | Michael Cela fires up Enigma in iTunes :) | |
| [15:27] | Benjamin Linden: | Yes, the moving release keys button is a huge problem |
| [15:27] | Jason Swain assumes the cake waiting position | |
| [15:27] | Squirrel Wood: | The Party Submission Position |
| [15:28] | Jason Swain thanks Squirrel | |
| [15:28] | Jacek Antonelli: | I think... that lots of people will complain whenever anything they are used to changes :D |
| [15:28] | Benjamin Linden: | that's true, Jacek |
| [15:28] | Jurin Juran: | moving buttons are not user friendly |
| [15:28] | Jurin Juran: | it requires READING |
| [15:28] | Squirrel Wood: | mayhaps make the buttons smaller and use symbols.. like wasd keys with a big red cross through them ? |
| [15:28] | Michael Cela: | like I have been waiting to do ever since 1.18.5 came out :) |
| [15:28] | Michael Cela: | hehehe |
| [15:28] | Michael Cela: | but I got bored of complaining and just got used to the changes |
| [15:28] | Jacek Antonelli: | Altho some of them have issues that people can clearly communicate, like the moving Release Keys |
| [15:29] | Jacek Antonelli: | other things, it's like "Meh. I dun like it, in a vague way." |
| [15:29] | Benjamin Linden: | I definitely think adding icons to the pop-up buttons will help |
| [15:29] | Jurin Juran: | i still would love to resize the chat and communicate windows even smaller if i wanted them |
| [15:29] | Michael Cela: | my ex-partner still gripes that she thinks voice is a useless feature. I like it, but rarely use it (I hate talking to people on the phone as it is) |
| [15:30] | Benjamin Linden: | Jurin, there are limits because of the UI layout |
| [15:30] | Jurin Juran: | voice is a great addition |
| [15:30] | Squirrel Wood: | voice is a vital addition |
| [15:30] | Jurin Juran: | yes, i know benjamin. they just get in the way tho! |
| [15:30] | Jason Swain is Pro voice | |
| [15:30] | Jurin Juran: | i am pro voice |
| [15:30] | Benjamin Linden: | I know, Jurin, and we went through a period where the window was bigger than it should have been |
| [15:30] | Jurin Juran: | i still skype alot tho, even inworld. |
| [15:31] | Squirrel Wood: | voice saves so much typing and it's perfect to practice your skills. Especially when english is not your native language |
| [15:31] | Malbers Linden: | we did Ben's non-office hours last weeek in voice. |
| [15:31] | Benjamin Linden: | at least now it's back to not taking up mroe than half the screen |
| [15:31] | Michael Cela: | I use skype pretty much exclusively |
| [15:31] | Michael Cela: | when I do voice |
| [15:31] | PersephoneGea Clary: | vital .. and gread good imao!! .voice its a important .. yes |
| [15:31] | Jason Swain thinks that Ben really missed out last week as Malbers did a great meeting | |
| [15:31] | Benjamin Linden: | in general I agree there's too much UI on the screen at any given time |
| [15:31] | PersephoneGea Clary: | but not important enigma music LOOL ;) okay hehehehe |
| [15:32] | Jacek Antonelli: | Ohhh, was there a meeting after all? *pouts* I left when I saw the sign |
| [15:32] | Malbers Linden: | it was very informal last week |
| [15:32] | Benjamin Linden: | that's good to hear, Jason, because Malbers is going to be covering office hours the next two weeks |
| [15:32] | Benjamin Linden: | I'm going on vacation :-) |
| [15:32] | Jurin Juran: | vacations are nice |
| [15:32] | Jacek Antonelli: | hehehe |
| [15:32] | Jacek Antonelli: | It's Malbers Time (tm) |
| [15:32] | Benjamin Linden: | lol |
| [15:32] | Squirrel Wood: | ^^ |
| [15:32] | Michael Cela: | you know I always wanted to be a Linden from the first day I was in SL, but then I realized the people you guys have to deal with and decided 'oh, maybe not!' |
| [15:32] | Michael Cela: | hehehe |
| [15:32] | Phli Foxchase: | Benjamin, Dazzle is planned to roll out in the next weeks ? |
| [15:33] | Benjamin Linden: | ah yes, thanks for reminding me Phli |
| [15:33] | Jason Swain: | ^^ |
| [15:33] | Jacek Antonelli: | ooh, right |
| [15:33] | Michael Cela: | Dazzle? |
| [15:33] | Benjamin Linden: | we'd hoped to have the first look out this week |
| [15:33] | Benjamin Linden: | but it got delayed due to internal resource constraints |
| [15:33] | Jacek Antonelli: | ah |
| [15:33] | Benjamin Linden: | we've tentatively scheduled next week |
| [15:33] | Phli Foxchase: | Does Dazzle change lot since Rev2 ? |
| [15:33] | Squirrel Wood: | hmm.. will it incluse windlight? |
| [15:33] | Squirrel Wood: | include even |
| [15:33] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, it's much more refined since rev2 |
| [15:33] | Benjamin Linden: | unfortunately it will not include windlight |
| [15:34] | Benjamin Linden: | because windlight hasn't gone into release |
| [15:34] | Squirrel Wood: | :( |
| [15:34] | Phli Foxchase: | so First Look |
| [15:34] | Jacek Antonelli: | Will there be a source drop for it, Ben? |
| [15:34] | Squirrel Wood: | I'm pretty much exclusive on the windlight client |
| [15:34] | Benjamin Linden: | there will be a period of probably a month where they will be separate |
| [15:34] | Squirrel Wood: | because unlike many other "builders" I incorporate windlight in my builds and designs. |
| [15:34] | Benjamin Linden: | I know it will be hard for people to go back to non-windlight if they want dazzle |
| [15:34] | Benjamin Linden: | but hopefully it won't be that way for very long |
| [15:35] | Michael Cela: | what is dazzle? |
| [15:35] | Michael Cela: | I obviously don't keep up :) |
| [15:35] | Squirrel Wood: | *gasp!* |
| [15:35] | Jacek Antonelli: | Dazzle is the shiny sexy new UI theme they're working on |
| [15:35] | Michael Cela: | oooh |
| [15:35] | Jurin Juran: | sexy! |
| [15:35] | Phli Foxchase: | Why you don't put new photos on the Wiki for the new dazzle ? |
| [15:35] | Benjamin Linden: | https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Dazzle |
| [15:36] | Michael Cela: | already there :) |
| [15:36] | Benjamin Linden: | sorry Phli, we've been so busy getting it ready |
| [15:36] | Benjamin Linden: | I haven't had a chance to update that page in a while |
| [15:36] | Michael Cela: | oooh |
| [15:36] | Michael Cela: | I like that :) |
| [15:36] | Phli Foxchase: | oki :) |
| [15:36] | Benjamin Linden: | glad to hear, Michael! |
| [15:36] | Michael Cela: | hurry up and release it :) |
| [15:36] | Benjamin Linden: | lol |
| [15:36] | Benjamin Linden: | believe me, I'm trying! |
| [15:36] | Jacek Antonelli: | I look forward to trying the release :D |
| [15:36] | Michael Cela: | that is one sexy looking UI |
| [15:36] | Jacek Antonelli: | Especially if there is source to go with it. *tinker tinker* |
| [15:36] | Benjamin Linden: | haha wait till you see the final version |
| [15:36] | Michael Cela: | very clean and I like the use of transparency |
| [15:37] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, we will do an open source drop with first look, if not before |
| [15:37] | Jacek Antonelli: | Yay! |
| [15:37] | Michael Cela: | plus, silver :D |
| [15:37] | Benjamin Linden: | of course you know there will be zillions of people who prefer the old look |
| [15:37] | Benjamin Linden: | :-) |
| [15:37] | Jacek Antonelli: | yep :D |
| [15:37] | Squirrel Wood: | There will be much whining |
| [15:37] | Squirrel Wood: | and cursing |
| [15:38] | Michael Cela: | of course. They need a group called "Get Off My Lawn!" |
| [15:38] | Jacek Antonelli: | And approximately 150 of them will voice that complaint on the blog before the comments get disabled *laughs* |
| [15:38] | Benjamin Linden: | eventually we hope to have a skinnable UI so people can customize the UI |
| [15:38] | Jurin Juran: | i just can't wait to get windlight with it |
| [15:38] | Michael Cela: | okay, a skinnable UI I would love |
| [15:38] | Benjamin Linden: | the comments on the 1.19.0 blog post were great! |
| [15:38] | Michael Cela: | I know Jacek would too :) |
| [15:38] | Jason Swain: | I think that UIs are like cars, some people like new dazzling cars and some like the classic look |
| [15:38] | Benjamin Linden: | yes Jason |
| [15:38] | Jacek Antonelli: | Very exciting developments in SL recently. Windlight, Havok4, Mono, Dazzle. Very cool time to be in SL! |
| [15:38] | Squirrel Wood: | people who contantly gripe and whine on blog posts and go off topic there should be moderated :p |
| [15:38] | Benjamin Linden: | it would also be cool if UI skins could be in-world tradeable assets |
| [15:38] | Michael Cela: | mono is very cool |
| [15:39] | Michael Cela: | I think it would be neat to have a UI skinning competition |
| [15:39] | Kerry Giha: | B and W Text is good :) |
| [15:39] | Phli Foxchase: | Do you still working on the new UI Improvement ? |
| [15:39] | Kerry Giha: | hehe |
| [15:39] | Jason Swain: | That would really start a new market, Ben, great idea |
| [15:39] | Benjamin Linden: | Phli, what was your question? |
| [15:40] | Jacek Antonelli: | Heya Garn! :D |
| [15:40] | Phli Foxchase: | http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Interface_Improvements |
| [15:40] | Garn Conover: | hey Jacek :) |
| [15:40] | Benjamin Linden: | wow cool av, Garn |
| [15:40] | Garn Conover: | Mrewp Mrewp! ^_^ |
| [15:40] | Garn Conover: | click a head |
| [15:40] | Jacek Antonelli: | Have you come to register your complaints about the Release Keys and/or Local Chat? *giggles* |
| [15:40] | Malbers Linden: | awesome cerebus av |
| [15:40] | Michael Cela: | hehehe |
| [15:40] | Garn Conover closing eyes in bliss to the scritch | |
| [15:41] | Garn Conover rolls over on back and enjoys his bewwy wubbs! | |
| [15:41] | Jacek Antonelli: | ^_^ |
| [15:41] | Garn Conover: | sorry cant see chat for the oversized [ppl logging off msgs |
| [15:41] | Michael Cela: | heh |
| [15:41] | Garn Conover: | and i deleted my release key button |
| [15:41] | Jurin Juran: | lol Garn |
| [15:41] | Phli Foxchase: | I deleted mine too |
| [15:41] | Jacek Antonelli: | Ah, I remember that notice |
| [15:41] | Garn Conover: | got feb up after the 6th time |
| [15:41] | Garn Conover rolls over on back and enjoys his bewwy wubbs! | |
| [15:42] | Jacek Antonelli: | Garn Conover: Canine of Action! |
| [15:42] | Scortch: and his sidekick Scortch! | |
| [15:42] | Michael Cela: | Ben: I really love that UI design in those screenshots, especially the simplified navigation |
| [15:42] | Benjamin Linden: | so I know we have a lot of advanced scripters here |
| [15:42] | Squirrel Wood points at https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-632 | |
| [15:42] | Garn Conover: | ooh UI screenshot? |
| [15:42] | Benjamin Linden: | which UI design are you referring to, Michael? |
| [15:42] | Michael Cela: | http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Interface_Improvements |
| [15:42] | Benjamin Linden: | ah yes |
| [15:43] | Michael Cela: | that one |
| [15:43] | Michael Cela: | I really like that |
| [15:43] | Benjamin Linden: | that's a long-term vision we'd like to move toward |
| [15:43] | Benjamin Linden: | less UI |
| [15:43] | Jacek Antonelli: | Squirrel: Oh, I have wanted that for a long time! |
| [15:43] | Michael Cela: | I'm all for less UI |
| [15:43] | Benjamin Linden: | more user-controllable |
| [15:43] | Benjamin Linden: | before we run out of time I wanted to talk some more about Release Keys |
| [15:44] | Benjamin Linden: | does anyone anticipate problems for new users if we move that to the menu? |
| [15:44] | Jacek Antonelli: | No |
| [15:44] | Squirrel Wood: | release keys.. like I said.. would be nice if you could choose which "hud" or "script" to take controls away from |
| [15:44] | Garn Conover: | that seems to be the main idea for it, move it up to say tools |
| [15:44] | Gia May: | no, the intuitive way to do it is to remove the attachment hooking the keys |
| [15:44] | Jason Swain: | I think it would be safer having the release keys on the menu |
| [15:44] | Jacek Antonelli: | If you did it for "Stand Up" I would say yes. But I don't think "Release Keys" is used very often (except unintentionally) |
| [15:44] | Benjamin Linden: | hmm, so maybe a fly-out menu? |
| [15:45] | Squirrel Wood: | That would be nice to have, yes |
| [15:45] | Gia May: | has anyone ever used "release keys" intentionally, other than just to see what it dos? |
| [15:45] | Benjamin Linden: | so perhaps if we moved Release Keys to the menu fewer content creators would use it for something important like "get me out of this car!!" |
| [15:45] | Garn Conover: | maybe change it to release controls as well |
| [15:45] | Squirrel Wood: | release keys at the moment releases keys from any and all scripts that have permission |
| [15:45] | Jacek Antonelli: | Ben: I'm pretty sure people just use Stand Up for getting out of cars, hehe |
| [15:45] | Squirrel Wood: | yes. |
| [15:46] | Jacek Antonelli: | And "detach" for getting off attachments that they don't like |
| [15:46] | Garn Conover: | is it known why it jumps up halfway upo the screen? |
| [15:46] | Squirrel Wood: | aos, flight assists... don't want to "release keys" on those |
| [15:46] | Benjamin Linden: | so basically release keys serves no purpose at all? |
| [15:46] | Jason Swain: | I have hit release keys accidentaly quite alot, so having it in a menu would be a large improvement |
| [15:46] | Squirrel Wood: | and there are quite a number of scripts that use key control to keep running in no script areas |
| [15:46] | Gia May: | exactly: if you removed release keys nobody would miss it |
| [15:46] | Jacek Antonelli: | Hmmmmm. It serves a small purpose, if you don't know what attachment has your controls. But very minor |
| [15:47] | Jacek Antonelli: | Definitely not important enough to be along the bottom. Maybe not even worth a menu item |
| [15:47] | Squirrel Wood: | definitely a menu item |
| [15:47] | Garn Conover: | yea thats why a fly menu would be nice.. instead of detatching you can look to see what possibly is effecting you |
| [15:47] | Squirrel Wood: | as there may be some malicious scripts requesting key control perms |
| [15:47] | Benjamin Linden: | I like that idea a lot |
| [15:47] | Jurin Juran: | putting mute on the buttons was a good idea |
| [15:47] | Gia May: | if you don't know what attachment has them, taking off attachments will tell you and release keys won't |
| [15:47] | Jacek Antonelli: | Oh, yeah. A menu that shows *which* things have your controls, and allow you to detach just those! |
| [15:47] | Benjamin Linden: | so it would be a disabled menu item unless there's something in it |
| [15:48] | Benjamin Linden: | then it becomes a flyout that lists the things controlling your av |
| [15:48] | Squirrel Wood: | Yes! |
| [15:48] | Jacek Antonelli: | I don't like how "Release keys" detaches _everything_ that has your keys |
| [15:48] | Gia May: | that would be good |
| [15:48] | Garn Conover nods x3 | |
| [15:48] | Benjamin Linden: | would someone here mind writing that up as a jira |
| [15:48] | Jacek Antonelli: | yes, yes, a thousand times yes :D |
| [15:48] | Squirrel Wood: | That would make it a LOT more useful :) |
| [15:48] | Benjamin Linden: | and include this transcript |
| [15:48] | Garn Conover: | i believe it already is Ben |
| [15:48] | Jason Swain nods | |
| [15:48] | Garn Conover: | or something simular |
| [15:48] | Benjamin Linden: | that suggestion, specifically Garn? |
| [15:48] | Jacek Antonelli: | I will be happy to write it up, or seach for a similar issue |
| [15:48] | Garn Conover: | 2 shakes |
| [15:48] | Benjamin Linden: | because that would be a feature request |
| [15:49] | Benjamin Linden: | Squirrel, are the screenshots you sent with the buttons jumping up in Jira? |
| [15:49] | Garn Conover: | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4541 < well possibly link this to it |
| [15:49] | Squirrel Wood: | the same thing would also be nice for animation permissions and even money perms |
| [15:49] | Squirrel Wood: | because right now you have no way to revoke such permissions from objects |
| [15:49] | Garn Conover: | that seems the main Jira beening passed around for releasekey |
| [15:50] | Benjamin Linden: | ok that's good to know |
| [15:50] | Jacek Antonelli: | Squirrel: yes, definitely a very important feature |
| [15:50] | Benjamin Linden: | so I have a related question |
| [15:50] | Benjamin Linden: | Stand up and IM received appear in that same position |
| [15:50] | Benjamin Linden: | will that be problematic for the same reasons? |
| [15:50] | Jacek Antonelli: | Yes |
| [15:50] | Benjamin Linden: | (also the odd Mouselook button) |
| [15:50] | Jacek Antonelli: | It was nice to have them always appear in a predictable place |
| [15:50] | Squirrel Wood: | http://www.dream.at/temp/buttons/buttons_a.png vs http://www.dream.at/temp/buttons/buttons_b.png |
| [15:51] | Garn Conover: | agreed Jacek |
| [15:51] | Benjamin Linden: | Squirrel, can you attach those to VWR-4541 |
| [15:51] | Jacek Antonelli: | I have been trained Pavlov style to react to the button appearing in the bottom left, assuming there's a new IM |
| [15:51] | Jurin Juran: | same here |
| [15:51] | Gia May: | I think everyone will unanimously agree that those buttons should go back to the way they were |
| [15:51] | Squirrel Wood: | willdo |
| [15:52] | Benjamin Linden: | yes, I'm beginning to see that's the real problem here |
| [15:52] | Phli Foxchase: | agree with Gia |
| [15:52] | Jacek Antonelli: | Consistency + predictability = very nice to have |
| [15:52] | Benjamin Linden: | I've proposed getting rid of the IM received button altogether and building the notification directly into the Communicate button |
| [15:52] | Benjamin Linden: | a light-up, or flash, or number indicating new messages |
| [15:53] | PersephoneGea Clary: | sorry im working here .. thxs !!! Malbers, Benjamin, Jurin, subliminal, Michael, Jacek Jason Squirrel Gia, Kerry .. Garn .. and little (sorry its a joke) Phili :) have nice day too |
| [15:53] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks Persephone |
| [15:53] | PersephoneGea Clary: | thxs for all |
| [15:53] | PersephoneGea Clary: | to you Mr Benjamin |
| [15:53] | Jason Swain: | See you PersephoneGea |
| [15:53] | Phli Foxchase: | :) |
| [15:53] | Gia May: | that reminds me, per new IMs: flash is a LOT better than just lighting up |
| [15:53] | Squirrel Wood: | yay! attach screenshots - java applet just crashed me firefox |
| [15:53] | Michael Cela: | and I'm going to wander off because I want to play around with 1.19 now that I have it downloaded :D |
| [15:54] | Benjamin Linden: | Gia, we were discussing earlier how the incessant flashing is very distracting |
| [15:54] | PersephoneGea Clary: | Malbers .. other day see you the spanish orientation? .. thxs and sorry :):) |
| [15:54] | Jacek Antonelli: | I like that idea, Benjamin. Some sort of blinking or glowing in the Communicate window |
| [15:54] | PersephoneGea Clary: | bye :) have nice day too |
| [15:54] | Gia May: | well, you probably get a lot more IMs than I do |
| [15:54] | Garn Conover: | non consitant but say every so often (can set timeing by self) |
| [15:54] | Jacek Antonelli: | I know several IM programs do similar things like that, blinking the icon in your system tray |
| [15:54] | Gia May: | shoudl flash vs. light-up be an option? |
| [15:55] | Pegasus Payne: | Hey! |
| [15:55] | Pegasus Payne: | Hey! |
| [15:55] | Squirrel Wood: | BUG REPORT! |
| [15:55] | Squirrel Wood: | Tools > Bug Reporting.. |
| [15:55] | Squirrel Wood: | http://jira.secondlife.com |
| [15:55] | Malbers Linden: | hi pegasus |
| [15:55] | Pegasus Payne: | hello :D |
| [15:55] | Jacek Antonelli: | Gia: I think an option for it would be good. Or at least an option to choose how long they blink before they start to glow |
| [15:55] | Jacek Antonelli: | Like a slider bar... all the way to the left = never, all they way to the right = forever |
| [15:55] | Benjamin Linden: | I think we just need to refine the current design so it's more noticeable |
| [15:56] | Jason Swain: | Gia: I found that the having 3 or more IMs flashing would distract me from the reply that I was writting |
| [15:56] | Benjamin Linden: | I'm also using Dazzle so I need to go back and play with it on 1.19.0 |
| [15:56] | Benjamin Linden: | the lit up tabs are quite noticeable in dazzle |
| [15:56] | Squirrel Wood: | most instant messengers and even outlook show a notification in the bottom right coener |
| [15:56] | Squirrel Wood: | corner |
| [15:56] | Jacek Antonelli: | Hmmm. Maybe, Ben. But there's a lot of variation between users in their IM habits. Some people have a million IM tabs open all the time, and they want it to blink for a long time |
| [15:56] | Squirrel Wood: | slide in - ey! new IM there! - lide out |
| [15:56] | Squirrel Wood: | or fade... |
| [15:57] | Jurin Juran: | well, that would be blocked by that huge notification window wouldn't it? |
| [15:57] | Benjamin Linden: | there are a lot of approaches we could take |
| [15:57] | Jacek Antonelli: | yep |
| [15:57] | Benjamin Linden: | I was thinking the Communicate *button* could light up |
| [15:57] | Jacek Antonelli: | yes |
| [15:57] | Jurin Juran: | i like light up better than flashing |
| [15:58] | Benjamin Linden: | so we don't add yet another thing to the crowded lower toolbar |
| [15:58] | Jason Swain: | It wouldnt light up for local chat though? |
| [15:58] | Jacek Antonelli: | Or perhaps softly pulse :D |
| [15:58] | Jurin Juran: | when its skinnable, we can make it do all sorts of things Jacek |
| [15:58] | Jacek Antonelli: | true! |
| [15:59] | Benjamin Linden: | good question, Jason |
| [15:59] | Benjamin Linden: | I'd have to think on that |
| [15:59] | Benjamin Linden: | we do light the local chat tab |
| [15:59] | Jason Swain: | I personaly would prefer it just to be for IMs |
| [15:59] | Jurin Juran: | same here |
| [15:59] | Jacek Antonelli: | Same here |
| [15:59] | Garn Conover: | *nods* |
| [16:00] | Benjamin Linden: | the button or the tabs? |
| [16:00] | Benjamin Linden: | or both? |
| [16:00] | Jason Swain: | both |
| [16:00] | Jason Swain: | ^^ |
| [16:00] | Benjamin Linden: | I found I wasn't seeing when people had said something to me in-world if I was following an IM |
| [16:00] | Benjamin Linden: | so I liked having Local Chat light up so I knew to go look |
| [16:01] | Jurin Juran: | i do alot of scrolling back |
| [16:01] | Benjamin Linden: | ok folks I have to run |
| [16:01] | Squirrel Wood: | okay. screenshots attached |
| [16:01] | Benjamin Linden: | this has been incredibly helpful, thank you! |
| [16:01] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks Squirrel! |
| [16:01] | Squirrel Wood: | Have a nice day Benjamin! |
| [16:01] | Malbers Linden: | yeah, great discussion today |
| [16:01] | Phli Foxchase: | thank you for coming Ben |
| [16:01] | Garn Conover facewashes Ben! | |
| [16:01] | Squirrel Wood: | And you too Malbers :) |
| [16:01] | Kerry Giha: | Have a nice day |
| [16:01] | Phli Foxchase: | and Malbers ! |
| [16:01] | Jacek Antonelli: | Bye Ben! Take care :D |
| [16:01] | Malbers Linden: | and so many excellent avs today too |
| [16:01] | Jacek Antonelli: | And Malbers! |
| [16:01] | Jason Swain: | Thanks for a great meeting and keep up that Great work Ben and Malbers ^^ |
| [16:01] | Benjamin Linden: | take care all |
| [16:02] | Benjamin Linden: | Malbers will be here the next two weeks |
| [16:02] | Malbers Linden: | bye |
| [16:02] | Jacek Antonelli: | See you next week for Malbers Time ^_^ |
| [16:02] | Benjamin Linden: | then I'll be back! |
| [16:02] | Phli Foxchase: | bye ! ^^ |
| [16:02] | Jacek Antonelli: | Have a nice vacation Ben! |
| [16:02] | Squirrel Wood: | happy holiday! |
| [16:02] | Jason Swain: | Happy Holidays |
| [16:02] | Benjamin Linden: | thanks!! :-) |
| [16:02] | Kerry Giha: | Alright take care |
| [16:02] | Benjamin Linden: | take care everyone |
