User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2008-07-09

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[15:08]	Benjamin Linden:	yes let's get started
[15:08]	Gloria Caudron:	ok sure
[15:08]	Garn Conover:	i agree Squirrel, mine acts funny w/ quicktiem on it
[15:08]	Gloria Caudron:	We are team of 5 graduate students
[15:08]	Gloria Caudron:	as the slide mentions, we are working with Linden Lab
[15:09]	Gloria Caudron:	to help enrich the user experience
[15:09]	Gloria Caudron:	we can go to the next slide
[15:09]	Benjamin Linden:	now we can wait another five minutes :-)
[15:09]	Marilyn Undercroft:	this may take a minute :(
[15:09]	Gloria Caudron:	:)
[15:09]	Ara Ember:	-0-
[15:09]	Tomiko Magic:	LOL
[15:09]	Garn Conover:	make a * for switches?
[15:10]	McCabe Maxsted fetches more sugar
[15:10]	Marilyn Undercroft:	ooo... alittle faster!
[15:10]	Ara Ember:	it rezzed for me
[15:10]	Garn Conover pulls out a griefer bone
[15:10]	Gloria Caudron:	Ok
[15:11]	Gloria Caudron:	so three main features in our system are these
[15:11]	Joeseph Albanese:	Well I didnt realize I was stading IN the way :-/
[15:11]	Gloria Caudron:	Mainly the Recommendations system, where the system
[15:11]	Gloria Caudron:	can recommend events, places, and groups for Residents
[15:11]	Gloria Caudron:	specific to their personal interests
[15:11]	Gloria Caudron:	The second feature is the Rating system
[15:12]	Gloria Caudron:	where Residents can rate events and places
[15:12]	Gloria Caudron:	if they enjoy it or not
[15:12]	Gloria Caudron:	and also post comments
[15:12]	Gloria Caudron:	for other Residents to read
[15:12]	Gloria Caudron:	The Rating system will feed into the Recommendations system
[15:13]	Lars Donardson sees major potential for abuse of these points
[15:13]	Gloria Caudron:	to help contribute to recommendations
[15:13]	Jacek Antonelli is jotting some feedback in a notecard for after Gloria's done :)
[15:13]	Nine Moulliez:	hello
[15:13]	Ara Ember:	:D thanks :)
[15:13]	Gloria Caudron:	yes thanks for jotting feedback
[15:13]	Gloria Caudron:	we will definietly be interested in hearing it in a moment
[15:14]	Gloria Caudron:	The third main compenent is the Interests/Tagging feature
[15:14]	Gloria Caudron:	where each event/place/group will have keywords
[15:14]	Gloria Caudron:	associated with it
[15:14]	Gloria Caudron:	also called categories/tags/interests
[15:14]	Gloria Caudron:	So for example if you like a place called "Karen's Karaoke"
[15:14]	Gloria Caudron:	certain keywords will be associated with this place
[15:15]	Gloria Caudron:	like karaoke, singing, music, etc
[15:15]	Gloria Caudron:	so if you have told the system you like these things
[15:15]	Gloria Caudron:	it will recommend you event/places/groups
[15:15]	Gloria Caudron:	with these same keywords
[15:15]	Tomiko Magic:	And other people? With similar interests? : )
[15:16]	Gloria Caudron:	These are the main concepts this system
[15:16]	Marilyn Undercroft:	ben get the next slide ready please :)
[15:16]	Ara Ember:	hmm.. we were thinking about that.
[15:16]	Gloria Caudron:	It will not recommend people, mainly events, places, groups
[15:16]	Kippie Friedkin:	Ben seems to have crashed a couple of minutes ago :\
[15:16]	Jacek Antonelli:	ruh roh
[15:16]	Ara Ember:	but people found it much less useful than events places and groups
[15:16]	Gloria Caudron:	we'll go to the last slide
[15:16]	Tomiko Magic:	I think that would be a good feature, to be able to search for people in Second Life who have similar interests etc. :)
[15:16]	Marilyn Undercroft:	uh oh!
[15:16]	McCabe Maxsted:	doh
[15:17]	Gloria Caudron:	doh!
[15:17]	Marilyn Undercroft:	the last slide just says the aspects we'd like feedback on
[15:17]	Tomiko Magic:	I think all of the other things Gloria has mentioned are Existing features in the Client, and why make new when Linden Lab can and should improve the current features?
[15:17]	Marilyn Undercroft:	we can get it up when ben gets back
[15:17]	Tomiko Magic:	Key words into Land description etc.
[15:17]	Gloria Caudron:	There are three main things we would like your feedback on
[15:17]	Gloria Caudron:	1 - what you find useful about our system
[15:18]	Gloria Caudron:	(we will show you a prototype)
[15:18]	Ara Ember:	hmm... somewhat different from existing features, cuz now it's tailored to you.
[15:18]	Gloria Caudron:	what aspects you might find confusing
[15:18]	Gloria Caudron:	and what features you would or would not use
[15:18]	Gloria Caudron:	Before we go into the prototype, it sounds like there is some feedback already
[15:19]	Joeseph Albanese:	Need a focus/test group
[15:19]	Marilyn Undercroft:	however they are only accessible to a small group of experienced Residents
[15:19]	Trinity Coulter:	How would you protect it from abuse?
[15:19]	Marilyn Undercroft:	it's very difficult for new and regular uses to access
[15:19]	Ara Ember:	yes :) we are going to do the user testing soon.. and we are hoping this session will turn out to be like a focus group :)
[15:19]	Lars Donardson:	exactly..the rating feature calls for "flame wars"/abuse
[15:19]	Gloria Caudron:	there are certain things we would have in place for abuse
[15:19]	Trinity Coulter:	which would be what/
[15:19]	Trinity Coulter:	?
[15:20]	Gloria Caudron:	it might be more clear once we show you
[15:20]	Gloria Caudron:	the prototype
[15:20]	Kippie Friedkin:	How are keywords determined for places and events?
[15:20]	McCabe Maxsted:	is the rating both positive and negative, or just positive?
[15:20]	Trinity Coulter:	Second Life differs from Social Networking in that it has a strong commerce base and therefore a strong incentive to abuse the system
[15:20]	Marilyn Undercroft:	negative and positive
[15:20]	Trinity Coulter:	abuse becomes cash
[15:20]	Lars Donardson nods at Trinity
[15:20]	Aimee Trescothick:	as was seen in the old profile ratings
[15:21]	Gloria Caudron:	We thought alot about this since there are alot of things such as campers
[15:21]	Gloria Caudron:	so one of the things is that we make the person's profile more public
[15:21]	Gloria Caudron:	the person who posts the comment
[15:21]	Gloria Caudron:	so there is more accountability to posting misleading comments
[15:21]	Joeseph Albanese:	here come the alts indroves
[15:22]	Trinity Coulter:	accountability means alts
[15:22]	Marilyn Undercroft:	determining the initial functionality was our first goal, but we are continuing to try and assure that it is gamed as little as possible
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli:	let's let her explain, okay?
[15:22]	Lars Donardson already hears the "fould· "breach of privacy" cries
[15:22]	Lars Donardson:	*foul
[15:22]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry folks, SL crashed my computer
[15:22]	Trinity Coulter:	I think its a good idea, but it is VERY open to abuse
[15:22]	Nine Moulliez:	Prototype Link: http://www.sjstevewon.com/sl/SL_hifi_iter1.html
[15:22]	McCabe Maxsted:	wb ben
[15:22]	Gloria Caudron:	why don't we show you now
[15:22]	Benjamin Linden:	who builds this app anyway?
[15:22]	Gloria Caudron:	Nine just posted the URL
[15:22]	Tomiko Magic:	Also, Second Life currently has all this; Search for Places, Groups, Events, Ratings etc.
[15:22]	Tomiko Magic:	So why make a new system?
[15:22]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe
[15:22]	Nine Moulliez:	Prototype Link: http://www.sjstevewon.com/sl/SL_hifi_iter1.html
[15:22]	Aimee Trescothick:	it wasn't built Ben, it evolved lol
[15:22]	Tomiko Magic:	People can already search what they want, and their matches come up
[15:23]	Marilyn Undercroft:	our user studies showed that search failed many users
[15:23]	Benjamin Linden:	can someone send me a chat transcript from the past 10 minutes?
[15:23]	Marilyn Undercroft:	it also doesn't expose new users to the possibilities in SL
[15:23]	Benjamin Linden:	yes ben
[15:23]	Trinity Coulter:	Linden Lab once had a thing called "dwell"... it was abused
[15:23]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Grant
[15:23]	Tomiko Magic:	No Ben
[15:23]	Tomiko Magic:	lol
[15:23]	Trinity Coulter:	Linden Lab once had a thing called "ratings", they were abused
[15:23]	Marilyn Undercroft:	they have to come up with what to search for themselves
[15:23]	Trinity Coulter:	Linden Lab right now has a thing called traffic and it IS abused
[15:24]	Jacek Antonelli:	Guys -- let them finish describing the system before you start bashing on it with a hammer?
[15:24]	Trinity Coulter:	so anything new should be airtight as much as possible upfront
[15:24]	Marilyn Undercroft:	yes we know about traffic, it's one of the reasons we took this direction
[15:24]	Lars Donardson:	pfttt...*kicks server*
[15:24]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Lars
[15:24]	Gloria Caudron:	We feel this is different from the Search in that it gives you tailored
[15:25]	Gloria Caudron:	recommendations to you based on ratings and your interests
[15:25]	Marilyn Undercroft:	are people able to see the prototype?
[15:25]	Dakota Schwade:	YEs.
[15:25]	Jingidy Dumpling:	please keep in mind the prototype is a work in progress
[15:25]	Gloria Caudron:	you have to maximize the browser window
[15:25]	Marilyn Undercroft:	if you missed it:
[15:25]	Marilyn Undercroft:	http://www.sjstevewon.com/sl/SL_hifi_iter1.html
[15:25]	Garn Conover:	this sounds like that LM sharer that was talked abotu a while back
[15:25]	Jingidy Dumpling:	some features are not implemented yet
[15:26]	Jingidy Dumpling:	for example, the "why is this recommended" and "options" links take you to something and gets stuck there
[15:26]	Jingidy Dumpling:	you will have to refresh to be able to go back
[15:28]	Lars Donardson:	how is this "you know 999 people here" determined?
[15:28]	Marilyn Undercroft:	it was for correct design spacing
[15:28]	Marilyn Undercroft:	it should have updated
[15:29]	Jacek Antonelli:	Could you explain the "Wander" button for us?
[15:29]	Gloria Caudron:	the Wander button will take you to a "random" place
[15:30]	Garn Conover:	if this can somehow eliminate abuse i dont see why it cant be joined w/ the exisiting system
[15:30]	Marilyn Undercroft:	please explain
[15:30]	Marilyn Undercroft:	do you mean in Search, or...
[15:30]	Ara Ember:	the wander button is like i feel l ucky button
[15:30]	Ara Ember:	it sends you to random place that matches your interest
[15:30]	Gloria Caudron:	also by "random" I mean it would be based on your interests to some degree
[15:31]	Jacek Antonelli:	Sounds good
[15:31]	Marilyn Undercroft:	it's like going to a recommended place, witht the same algorythm behind it
[15:31]	Jacek Antonelli thinks the "I'm bored" button ^_^
[15:31]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe
[15:31]	Kippie Friedkin:	heh..yep!
[15:31]	Ara Ember agrees
[15:31]	McCabe Maxsted was thinking the same
[15:31]	Aimee Trescothick:	bit like StumbleUpon
[15:31]	Jacek Antonelli:	yeah :)
[15:32]	Kippie Friedkin:	yep
[15:32]	Garn Conover:	did we loose Ben again?
[15:32]	Marilyn Undercroft:	inspiration identified!
[15:32]	Kippie Friedkin:	we sure did
[15:32]	Malbers Linden:	Bn has left the building
[15:32]	Aimee Trescothick:	:D
[15:32]	Marilyn Undercroft:	yup, ben seems to be having some problems
[15:32]	Garn Conover:	too many av's! lol
[15:32]	McCabe Maxsted:	hamsters got lose
[15:32]	McCabe Maxsted:	someone has to chase 'em down
[15:32]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:32]	Gloria Caudron:	:)
[15:33]	Dakota Schwade:	So in some ways this is related to Jeska Linden's "LL Traffic Future" activities, yes?
[15:33]	Jacek Antonelli:	This circle "refresh"-looking arrow comes up with a random listing (weighted for your preferences) for you to look at? And then you have the back and forward history buttons?
[15:33]	Aimee Trescothick volunteers for hamster chasing duties
[15:33]	Lars Donardson:	is the "X people you know like this" and "you know XXX people here" linked toy your friendslist ?
[15:33]	Gloria Caudron:	yes linked to your friends list
[15:34]	Jingidy Dumpling:	yes
[15:34]	Marilyn Undercroft:	we have recently reworked that butoon (refresh)... it's outta there!
[15:34]	Marilyn Undercroft:	needs spell check ;)
[15:34]	Dakota Schwade:	And initially, everything in SL will be un-rated, with ratings building over time?
[15:34]	Gloria Caudron:	not sure about "LL Traffic Future" activities
[15:35]	Marilyn Undercroft:	yes though we hope to devise a way to increase the speed at which things will be rated
[15:35]	Lars Donardson:	now..that for example is not a feature I'd like all the time to be honest..did you consider building a "hide" function into it?
[15:35]	Dakota Schwade:	Traffic = Popularity in many eyes.
[15:35]	Marilyn Undercroft:	do you mean the bar or the big window?
[15:35]	Marilyn Undercroft:	to hide
[15:35]	Lars Donardson:	I don't need to tp into a region and be automatically seen to all my friends on the list
[15:35]	Gloria Caudron:	yes good point
[15:36]	Gloria Caudron:	you could opt out of it
[15:36]	Gloria Caudron:	it's only if you were open to ppl contacting you at that time
[15:36]	Marilyn Undercroft:	like 'find on map'
[15:36]	Jacek Antonelli:	Cool
[15:36]	Jacek Antonelli:	wb Ben
[15:36]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks
[15:37]	Benjamin Linden:	clearly RC13 not so lucky for me
[15:37]	Lars Donardson hands Benjamin some superglue to glue his bum to the grid
[15:37]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe
[15:37]	Kippie Friedkin:	lol
[15:37]	Benjamin Linden:	heh thanks Lars
[15:37]	Marilyn Undercroft:	tee hee
[15:37]	McCabe Maxsted:	so will this be strictly an inworld tool?
[15:37]	Ara Ember:	lmao
[15:37]	Marilyn Undercroft:	there's been some discussion on that point but we haven't developed anything for the web yet
[15:38]	Kippie Friedkin is taking lots of notes :)
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted:	okay, because there's a lot of text here; I don't know how patient I'd be sitting and reading through it with the 3D world to look at
[15:38]	Marilyn Undercroft:	great thanks!
[15:38]	Trinity Coulter:	rather than a dedicated new addition to the Viewer, why not develop a web-based HUD framework for the Viewer and people can build their own solutions into this same sort of structure?
[15:38]	Marilyn Undercroft:	that's very isolating to new users
[15:39]	Marilyn Undercroft:	though a good idea :)
[15:39]	Jingidy Dumpling:	or do you mean providing a way to easily customize it?
[15:39]	Dakota Schwade:	Yes, HUD to me was a movie title for a long time.
[15:39]	Jingidy Dumpling:	and still have a default
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted assumes it'll be skinnable ;)
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehehe
[15:39]	Trinity Coulter:	I agree with McCabe about the text overload there
[15:39]	Trinity Coulter:	might need to be streamlined some
[15:40]	Marilyn Undercroft:	we are developing a thumbnail preview/list before all these details, would that help with all the text?
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	thumbnail/preview list would be good
[15:40]	Trinity Coulter:	your typical SL'er will have chat on the bottom, chat in an IM window, and then this added in as well
[15:40]	Trinity Coulter:	not much screen space left for a 3D world
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	Especially with pictures :D
[15:40]	Marilyn Undercroft:	we did leave the bottom left as clear as possible on purpose
[15:41]	Jingidy Dumpling:	and we're trying to leave the middle open too
[15:41]	Marilyn Undercroft:	and you are looking to go to a new place so.....
[15:41]	Marilyn Undercroft:	but i hear ya
[15:41]	Marilyn Undercroft:	in any event, it's still smaller than search
[15:41]	Trinity Coulter:	this could just be part of the place name at the top
[15:42]	Dakota Schwade:	If it is built in to the viewer, images could be a Preference setting.
[15:42]	Gloria Caudron:	It's possible but sometimes we are recommendting groups and events
[15:42]	Jingidy Dumpling:	or maybe whether or not to show that much text could be a preference too
[15:42]	Trinity Coulter:	Gloria, could you explain what you mean by recommending a group?
[15:42]	Gloria Caudron:	yes this would be based on your interests
[15:43]	Gloria Caudron:	So if you have rated thing "thumbs up" which have certain keywords
[15:43]	McCabe Maxsted:	how do you gather our interests?
[15:43]	Jacek Antonelli likes having a recommendation, instead of having to think of a specific thing that I want to do
[15:43]	Gloria Caudron:	associated with them, similar groups would be recommended to you
[15:43]	Trinity Coulter:	where are the ratings stored?
[15:43]	Marilyn Undercroft:	McCabe- we have several methods.... one is to have you input them directly via your profile
[15:43]	Gloria Caudron:	for example it might recommend a karaoke group if you like Karen's Karaoke place
[15:43]	Marilyn Undercroft:	another is to gather them from your ratings
[15:43]	Nine Moulliez:	can you clarify trinity?
[15:44]	Marilyn Undercroft:	and then another is from the option 'show more like this'
[15:44]	Nine Moulliez:	Ratings would be stored in the database and used in the future for things like recommendations
[15:44]	Trinity Coulter:	well we have data for ratings.... is this stored locally on the user's computer, or is it in the SL database?
[15:44]	Marilyn Undercroft:	in addition, you can browse other people's profiles and add them from there
[15:44]	Nine Moulliez:	Not locally.
[15:45]	Ara Ember:	the ratings are like a property of the land/event/group
[15:45]	Ara Ember:	it's within the information of these
[15:45]	McCabe Maxsted:	hm, okay. I think a lot of people will be worried this will be one of those "track everything you buy" kind of systems
[15:45]	Trinity Coulter:	yes
[15:45]	Trinity Coulter:	giant marketing database
[15:45]	Marilyn Undercroft:	every interest defaults to private and there is no rating of objects
[15:46]	Jingidy Dumpling:	or people
[15:46]	Ara Ember:	oh yeah please join the group if you are interested in helping us further
[15:46]	Ara Ember:	that's what tomiko is sending right now
[15:46]	Joeseph Albanese:	Yeah but essentially you are saying so and so shops here a lot?
[15:46]	Tomiko Magic:	Please join 'HCI - Project Participants' : )
[15:46]	Gloria Caudron:	also, we would want to make it clear to users at which points
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted:	what was that? benjamin's offering us a 16th group place just for this?
[15:46]	Gloria Caudron:	we are gathring informaton from them
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted:	that's so nice of linden labs
[15:46]	Marilyn Undercroft:	hahahha
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted:	*26th, rather
[15:46]	Jacek Antonelli:	lol
[15:46]	Trinity Coulter gives McCabe 16 group slots
[15:46]	Jingidy Dumpling:	haha
[15:47]	Kippie Friedkin:	lol
[15:47]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe
[15:47]	Lars Donardson waves the "we need more groups" flag
[15:47]	Kippie Friedkin is going to have to pick a group to leave to join this one
[15:47]	Gloria Caudron:	lol :)
[15:47]	Dakota Schwade:	After a while of gathering "likes" another button could be used to recommend places wildly outside of your interests, as a diversion, perhaps.
[15:47]	Ara Ember:	oops..
[15:47]	Marilyn Undercroft:	hmmm... intersting!
[15:47]	Gloria Caudron:	yes interesting :)
[15:47]	Ara Ember:	ya :)
[15:48]	Dakota Schwade:	I'm not just another pretty avatar.
[15:48]	Ara Ember:	lol
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	What's the group called? I can't find any HCI - Project Participants...
[15:48]	Gloria Caudron:	lol
[15:48]	McCabe Maxsted wishes they hadn't turnkated the group search functionality
[15:48]	Trinity Coulter:	if you are going to build something like this idea into the Viewer, you might get more participation from the community by simply creating a set of standards for web-based HUDs or widgets and adding that to the Viewer instead of this... people can develop this system independently
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli hates this useless new group search
[15:48]	McCabe Maxsted:	used to be so easy to find groups
[15:48]	McCabe Maxsted:	now, god
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted:	they don't even show you how many members half the time
[15:49]	Lars Donardson:	Homeless...nope...humanistic...hmmmmm
[15:49]	Kippie Friedkin:	You can click on my profile to find that group. I found it :)
[15:49]	Jingidy Dumpling:	we could consider that as a next step, a web-based HUD
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli grumble grumble grumble.... "loco poco" didn't turn up the "loco pocos" group this weekend.. grumble grumble
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted:	HCI founders?
[15:49]	Jingidy Dumpling:	could be useful
[15:49]	Aimee Trescothick:	Human Computer Interaction? What about Cat Computer Interaction
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli:	thank you Ara
[15:49]	Ara Ember:	yw
[15:50]	Marilyn Undercroft:	i know they've done dog computer interaction
[15:50]	Ara Ember:	hot cats interaction
[15:50]	Aimee Trescothick:	:D
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted:	aha thanks kippie
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	"Cat Like Typing Detected!"
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe
[15:50]	Kippie Friedkin:	:)
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	cat-computer interaction = sitting on my keyboard
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted:	I considered getting that for my cat
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted:	he loves to hop up and type secret messages
[15:50]	Jei Desoto:	i think as it might have been already said that a system like this integrated in the viewer would allow new players to find it sonner then HUDs.
[15:51]	Jei Desoto:	sooner even.
[15:51]	Kippie Friedkin:	agreed
[15:51]	Trinity Coulter:	this is a HUD
[15:51]	Aimee Trescothick:	it's just a built in one
[15:51]	Trinity Coulter:	i'm suggesting a new type of HUD/widget
[15:51]	Jingidy Dumpling:	like a LL hud that you have by default?
[15:51]	Trinity Coulter:	that is open to user-driven creations
[15:51]	Trinity Coulter:	yes
[15:52]	Jei Desoto:	And i'm giving a reason as to being part of the native UI whould make it easier to new people.
[15:52]	Trinity Coulter:	and could accept web based interfaces, etc
[15:52]	Trinity Coulter:	right, but this is a HUD nontheless... built in or not
[15:52]	Trinity Coulter:	certain things will have to be added to the viewer for this to function
[15:53]	Jei Desoto:	Then your previous statement answers itself.
[15:53]	Jacek Antonelli:	Aye, it's a HUD -- rather than a HUD Attachment
[15:53]	Trinity Coulter:	why not just establish a standard for such new things
[15:53]	Marilyn Undercroft:	what types of things trinity?
[15:53]	Trinity Coulter:	and extend content creation to the Viewer itself
[15:53]	Trinity Coulter:	HUD 2.0
[15:53]	Ara Ember:	0.0
[15:53]	Jingidy Dumpling:	Like the toolbar would be a HUD instead
[15:53]	Jingidy Dumpling:	?
[15:53]	Aimee Trescothick:	Viewer plugins have been talked about a lot in the past
[15:53]	Lars Donardson points to the open viewer /Dev meetings
[15:54]	Jacek Antonelli thinks that's probably a teensy bit beyond the scope of their project...
[15:54]	Trinity Coulter:	you're already halfway there with this project
[15:54]	Jei Desoto:	Sounds like a major jump in viewer code though... Might be better to wor toward something like that in steps.
[15:54]	Jingidy Dumpling:	Yeah, we don't really have the resources to accomplish that, for the project
[15:55]	Dakota Schwade:	When are you contemplating testing this ratings system?
[15:55]	Trinity Coulter:	i'm actually just suggesting a simplification :)
[15:55]	Marilyn Undercroft:	asap
[15:55]	Lars Donardson:	RL asap or SL asap
[15:55]	Ara Ember:	we are going to test the design no tthe system itself
[15:55]	Lars Donardson snickers
[15:55]	McCabe Maxsted:	distribute a hud inworld for us to try out?
[15:55]	Jei Desoto:	Even in simplicity some things take to much code differance if it's function is very differant then current function. So this emediate plan seems like a good step in the right direction for now.
[15:56]	Gloria Caudron:	unforutnately we don't have the resources to do that
[15:56]	Ara Ember:	when Lindens actually make these... ;)
[15:56]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:56]	Ara Ember:	so.. we are the designers, not coders
[15:56]	Aimee Trescothick:	problem is the viewer needs a major overhaul to make that possible, but everytime a new feature gets added it makes that task a little more complicated
[15:56]	Trinity Coulter:	yes, exactly my point, Aimee
[15:57]	Lars Donardson already braces himself for the whining orgy on the blog when this feature will be announced
[15:57]	Marilyn Undercroft:	indeed, we considered reworking this into search but it's, again, outside of our scope
[15:57]	Tomiko Magic:	I'm sure it would go through beta stages and but testing pefore it got made the main viewer
[15:57]	Tomiko Magic:	bug*
[15:57]	Tomiko Magic:	before*
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted nods
[15:57]	Trinity Coulter:	well, it needs to be rock solid against abuse
[15:57]	Tomiko Magic:	Yes, and it'd all be part of testing and improving
[15:57]	Marilyn Undercroft:	yes, that's our main focus now (abuse)
[15:58]	Dakota Schwade:	Is this system, for lack of my understanding, "bot" proof then?
[15:58]	Lars Donardson nods..the abuse potential is enormous
[15:58]	Jingidy Dumpling:	depends on how it is implemented? =)
[15:58]	Jacek Antonelli:	I think this system would be a useful addition to the viewer. Benefit well beyond the cost of the added code.
[15:58]	Jei Desoto:	Nothing is rock solid. There are always ways around any abuse free system. So whatever is planned to help keep the abuse down will be enough to suffice... This -is- still in the works.
[15:58]	Ara Ember:	yes. we are spending a lot of time thinking about abuse.
[15:59]	Benjamin Linden:	We are drawing close to the end of the hour. I want to let everyone know that next week (July 17) Jacek Antonelli will present their design for the viewer contest
[15:59]	Aimee Trescothick:	The was some useful discussion on sl-dev about ways of preventing gaming in the past
[15:59]	Ara Ember:	just tho' if we could find abuse proof way of doing the reputation system.. we definitely will earn a lot of money from amazon ;)
[15:59]	Jei Desoto:	Yeah... Abuse is big thing and all, but i don't wanna see fear of it ruining a potentially good system to find your way around the maze we have now.
[15:59]	McCabe Maxsted:	the potential for abuse is limited by how much effect this will have on SL™ lives, too; you won't be able to ruin someone's business with it, or shouldn't be able to
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli:	whee :D
[15:59]	McCabe Maxsted:	oooh
[15:59]	Trinity Coulter:	you could limit rating strength on "no payment info" people
[15:59]	Lars Donardson:	I may sound crazy but I can picture estate/club owners actually paying ppl to cast negative votes for competitors
[15:59]	McCabe Maxsted expects dressing up and laser pointers
[15:59]	Squirrel Wood:	that is definitely going to happen
[15:59]	Kippie Friedkin:	lol
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli:	Not crazy at all, Lars
[16:00]	Gloria Caudron:	yes were were thinking of Lars' point
[16:00]	Trinity Coulter:	Jei, abuse has to be a serious concern because it is about money here
[16:00]	Lars Donardson:	well..I didn't want to sound too discouraging..lol
[16:00]	Ara Ember:	heh
[16:00]	Squirrel Wood:	create alt, vote negative, dispose of alt....
[16:00]	Trinity Coulter:	i think these ideas are wonderful
[16:00]	Trinity Coulter:	i love their suggestions
[16:00]	Trinity Coulter:	but it WILL get abused
[16:00]	Ara Ember:	yes.
[16:00]	Marilyn Undercroft:	we are considering some way to dissassociate the rating from the av so you couldn't tell if the person you paid actually did what you asked
[16:00]	Lars Donardson:	and stop this "no payment info talking pls"..not my fault that I can't get one on file grmmph..unless LL changes their policy that is
[16:00]	Jingidy Dumpling:	yup, these are great ideas to try to minimize the abuse
[16:00]	Tomiko Magic:	There could always be banned words for cxomments etc.
[16:01]	Jei Desoto:	Serious yes, and that's my point... as it was stated, they are working on things to keep it to minimum. There fore it shouldn't be a fear to stop something like this being implimneted if they have ways to minimise that risk.
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	Thanks to everyone for coming, one more time I want to let everyone know that next week (July 17) Jacek Antonelli will present their design for the viewer contest
[16:01]	Gloria Caudron:	yes and hopefully since your profile is more public
[16:01]	Gloria Caudron:	there would be more accountability for your posts
[16:01]	Gloria Caudron:	yes thank you
[16:01]	Nine Moulliez:	thank you everyone for all the feedback. they were ery helpful!
[16:01]	Jingidy Dumpling:	thank you so much for all the suggestions and feedback
[16:01]	Marilyn Undercroft:	thank you all so much for your great feedback!