User:Blue Linden/Office Hour Transcripts/June 3rd, 2009

[16:04] Blue Linden: thanks for coming everyone :D

[16:04] Oryx Tempel: :)

[16:04] Thunderclap Morgridge: :(

[16:04] Marianne McCann: Hey Blue!

[16:04] Malarthi Behemoth: Hey Gayathi... Hey, wait a minute!

[16:04] Blue Linden: Hi Mari!

[16:04] Marianne McCann smiles

[16:04] Gayathri Linden: /sorry, everyone, I do not have a bear.

[16:04] Blue Linden: I have been challenging people all week to come to my office hour....

[16:04] Blue Linden: last week a number of protesters showed up after blondin's and we went into extra innings

[16:04] Malarthi Behemoth wouldn't miss it for the world.

[16:05] Thunderclap Morgridge: Blue did you ever find out if that metric is publically available

[16:05] Blue Linden: which metric?

[16:05] Thunderclap Morgridge: the % oof 18 to 20 years olds to the total residents

[16:05] Oryx Tempel: Blue, Nika Talaj told us that we were to talk about the future of the SL Forums today... is that right?

[16:05] Rinoa Rives: eh... blues looking slighty green today

[16:05] Blue Linden: I was hoping to Oryx!

[16:06] Thunderclap Morgridge: and that is very important as well

[16:06] Marianne McCann: Just around hte gills

[16:06] Blue Linden: ah, right sorry Thinder...I didn't get a response to that mail yet

[16:06] Rinoa Rives: wonder if it's my viewer

[16:06] Thunderclap Morgridge: iz okay

[16:06] Blue Linden: the metrics guys might be crazy busy

[16:06] Blue Linden: so who else here did I IM to say COME TO MY OFFICE HOUR!

[16:06] Chris Norse: You invited me in the blog

[16:06] Blue Linden: this is a great sized group by the way....

[16:07] Blue Linden: *nods

[16:07] Thunderclap Morgridge: well I had to im colossus to not pull my stuff on xstreet

[16:07] Rinoa Rives: not me... sorry I didnt come much recently though

[16:07] Blue Linden: glad you made it Chris

[16:07] Mike Denneny: btw blue

[16:07] Mike Denneny: Ill be in the HQ

[16:07] Blue Linden: yes, it's been a while Rinoa :)

[16:07] Thunderclap Morgridge: can we keep both the forums and the wiki

[16:07] Mike Denneny: in san fransisco

[16:07] Thunderclap Morgridge: the only living part of the forums is the content creation part

[16:07] Rinoa Rives: I cant help it... work ends at 10 pm for me

[16:07] Blue Linden: well I had told people that we are looking at transitioning to new "Discussion Thread" system in the new Clearspace blog

[16:08] Marianne McCann: oof

[16:08] Malarthi Behemoth: How well did that go over Blue?

[16:08] Blue Linden: Oryx just handed me a notecard with a TON of quotes from people that don't like the idea

[16:08] Oryx Tempel: Thunder, I beg to differ. Resident Answers is vital.

[16:08] Thunderclap Morgridge: yeah thats not a sfunctional as the forums

[16:08] Thunderclap Morgridge: ok Oryx

[16:08] Blue Linden: first I should point out that I'm not talking about the SL Answers feature that's in beta now

[16:08] Marianne McCann: Woo!

[16:08] Oryx Tempel: Right. That's a different topic.

[16:08] Thunderclap Morgridge: I will agree with that it still validates my point

[16:08] Blue Linden: that's something else...similar, but not what we want to use for forums

[16:08] Blue Linden: *nods

[16:09] Blue Linden: the Disucssion threads are as seen here.....

[16:09] Nika Talaj: Can you describe what you envision for forums, Blue?

[16:09] Blue Linden: https://blogs.secondlife.com/thread/1315

[16:10] Blue Linden: well, that link is to a single thread

[16:10] Blue Linden: so imagine that as the most basic element of any forum.

[16:10] Blue Linden: on that basic level it's nice because it's threaded

[16:11] Blue Linden: so it's easier to follow the various conversations that break out in a single forum thread

[16:11] Blue Linden: that's something that people have been asking for on the current forums for years and years

[16:11] Malarthi Behemoth: Fundamental difference I see: Can anyone create threads in this new world order?

[16:11] Blue Linden: that's the plan Mal, eventually

[16:11] Thunderclap Morgridge: but what about the abilty to post pics scripts, links sigs and files?

[16:12] Blue Linden: Thunder, you can see that there are all sorts of formatting options in the Discussion thread.....people are posting ferret pictures already

[16:12] Rinoa Rives giggles

[16:12] Oryx Tempel: Will you port all existing Forum content over for reference? There are years worth of info there.

[16:12] Thunderclap Morgridge: ok!

[16:12] Gayathri Linden doesnt get the joke with the ferrets, btw.

[16:12] Thunderclap Morgridge: agreed

[16:12] Thunderclap Morgridge will explain ferrets later

[16:12] Blue Linden: yeah, I'm not sure where that came from, but lolferrets certainly lighten the mood of that serious thread

[16:12] Gayathri Linden: oryx, the idea is to keep the old forums frozen, and availalbe

[16:13] Gayathri Linden: we wont be porting that information over.

[16:13] Soen Eber: and if people do decide to go somewhere else, will the information in the forums be copywrit?

[16:13] Thunderclap Morgridge: lolferrets is smater than lolcats

[16:13] Blue Linden: Oryx....what Gayathri said

[16:13] Thunderclap Morgridge: so can we

[16:13] Blue Linden: lol

[16:13] Blue Linden: when we ported the blogs to new setup, some info was lost....

[16:13] Oryx Tempel: How easy will the old Forums be to find?

[16:13] Blue Linden: we would hate to lose info that's in the current forums

[16:14] Thunderclap Morgridge: so can we port the info over ourselevs

[16:14] Nika Talaj: What categories will the new forums have?

[16:14] Chris Norse: But what about losing the community that has built up in the old forums?

[16:14] Blue Linden: hopefully pretty easy....they'll be searchable

[16:14] Oryx Tempel: Right now even the Blog is buried and not easily noticable

[16:14] Thunderclap Morgridge: like the stickys and the relevant discussions most of the sculpty tool makers talk there

[16:14] Blue Linden: Nika, all the same categories I believe....and if people have new categories Ll should consider them

[16:14] Thunderclap Morgridge: lolferrets

[16:14] Blue Linden: Chris....i would hope that people would continue posting

[16:14] Oryx Tempel: Blue, I sent you a link to a suggested forum format that we all came up with

[16:15] Blue Linden: okay thanks....let me look

[16:15] Blue Linden: Chris...what do you think the best way to preserve community would be.....moving everyone at once, or moving threads one at a time?

[16:15] Thunderclap Morgridge: I think a catch all thread would be good too like on zomglolbbq on sluniverse

[16:16] Soen Eber: How about starting with the content creation forums? You're going to have a higher skillset there anyways, they can be good pathfinders

[16:16] Blue Linden: sorry I didn't see the link Oryx....

[16:16] Gayathri Linden: i was just about to say, sorry, Oryx, missed any link.

[16:16] Oryx Tempel: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddhpv2fg_2f4cqj9g7&hl=en

[16:16] Oryx Tempel: It was in the Notecard. *blush*

[16:16] Blue Linden: oh sorry lol

[16:16] Blue Linden: can everyone see that?

[16:16] Nika Talaj: One category that was missing from the proposed categories was "General Discussion", which folks ardently wished for but we figured it was a lost cause :)

[16:16] Blue Linden: that's great thank you!

[16:17] Rinoa Rives: yyup

[16:17] Valentino Tendaze: Hello all,

[16:17] Gayathri Linden: Thanks, Oryx, this is really helpful.

[16:17] Chris Norse: Everyone at once would be the best way to do it. Or better yet, don't mess with what is not broken.

[16:17] Valentino Tendaze: came to add my vote to keep the Resident Forums

[16:17] Marianne McCann: oof

[16:17] Nika Talaj: The category list in the link was part of a proposal Qie Niangao and myself made to Robin many moons ago.

[16:17] HoneyBear Lilliehook: that would be my preference :(

[16:17] Thunderclap Morgridge: i like that as well

[16:17] Blue Linden: well, we can pretty much replicate the existing functionality and subjects of the existing forums.....

[16:17] Oryx Tempel: Was Nika and Qie who did it, really

[16:18] Nika Talaj: There were other elements to that proposal, such as BBCode to support script formatting :)

[16:18] Blue Linden: the new software should allow for a number of improvements as well.....

[16:18] HoneyBear Lilliehook: I'm sorry for coming in late Blue, but you're still considering that yahoo format?

[16:18] Thunderclap Morgridge: a sidebar question is everyone who is currently banned from the forums still banned from the new one

[16:18] Blue Linden: Gayathri...do you know if new Discussions support BBCode?

[16:18] Blue Linden: it's html isnt it?

[16:19] Oryx Tempel: (Yahoo Answers is a different day/topic, Honeybear)

[16:19] Thunderclap Morgridge: and I heard a rumor that Prokofy is banned from the jira?

[16:19] Marianne McCann: How's you?

[16:19] HoneyBear Lilliehook: ok, thanks

[16:19] Blue Linden: thanks for coming HoneyBear :) We are talking about discussion threads

[16:19] Malarthi Behemoth: Blue, are the generalities set in stone?

[16:19] Rinoa Rives: as long as they dont add marquee or blinking text I'm happy with whatever improvements

[16:19] Squirrel Wood: the rumor is likely not a rumor ^^

[16:19] Gayathri Linden: sorry, what's BBCode?

[16:19] Malarthi Behemoth: But... But... Blink is my favorite tag!

[16:19] Blue Linden: the basic functions are there Mal, but we have a lot of flexibility

[16:19] Thunderclap Morgridge loves blink marquee tags lol

[16:19] Oryx Tempel blinks

[16:19] Blue Linden: hehe....BBCode is the formatting language for old blogs

[16:19] Marianne McCann: RInoa - it' will be a new feature "Blinging text"

[16:19] Blue Linden: blinging

[16:20] Rinoa Rives: haha

[16:20] Soen Eber: Um ... blink marquee tags are the "gesture spam" of forums

[16:20] Gayathri Linden sadly has not used the Old Blogs much. :)

[16:20] ChatBrat Pippita: O.o

[16:20] Squirrel Wood: bling.... omg no :p

[16:20] Nika Talaj: Yes, depends on how the HTML is done as to whether it would be easy to quote a script and edit it.

[16:20] Thunderclap Morgridge: what no bing?

[16:20] Malarthi Behemoth: Blue, I mean: Is it for certain this is the platform that will, for certain, be migrated to, because the migration itself is guarenteed to take place?

[16:20] Rinoa Rives: text with flashy particals?

[16:20] Rinoa Rives: shiny text?

[16:20] Marianne McCann: Gayathri - oh, do stop by. We don't bite.

[16:20] Gayathri Linden: but it does support html, and has a wysiwyg editor for posting.

[16:20] Marianne McCann: Well, maybe Weston or Crazod...

[16:20] Thunderclap Morgridge: shiny sculptie text

[16:21] Blue Linden: well Mal, that's the plan...

[16:21] Rinoa Rives: just make sure people dont write paragraphs with it

[16:21] Squirrel Wood: need to be very very very very very careful about allowing html on public forums...

[16:21] Malarthi Behemoth: Just checking.

[16:21] Oryx Tempel: Sorry, but does bling text really matter? Function is more important that form..

[16:21] Malarthi Behemoth: Outside the box, whatnot.

[16:21] Blue Linden: i know what you mean Squirrel

[16:21] Valentino Tendaze: I'm sorry for coming late as well, and apologise if i'm repeating, but we really need to be sure to keep an archive from the current forums - *all* the content

[16:21] Thunderclap Morgridge: blue have you seen google wave?

[16:21] Blue Linden: if you check the threads here... https://blogs.secondlife.com/thread/1315

[16:21] Soen Eber: BBCode allows you to type [i]text[/i] to get italicized text, for example

[16:21] Nika Talaj: That could work. Will there be a beta in which we can participate?

Missed that question...we're in an Alpha of sorts with current Discussion threads....look for the JOIN THE DISCUSSION buttons on blog posts - blue

[16:21] Thunderclap Morgridge: that would be awesome

[16:21] Blue Linden: you can click REPLY and see the formatting tools

[16:21] Rinoa Rives: thats a given about the HTML... I can do a lot with HTML

[16:21] Gayathri Linden: Squirrel - yea, our devs freaked when we first heard they could, but Clearspace has a pretty strong way of keeping htm code clean.

[16:22] Blue Linden: i'm just waiting for griefy image uploads lol

[16:22] Squirrel Wood: I sense a borken spamming ao

[16:22] Squirrel Wood: [16:22] Rizzy's HUDDLES EZ Animator Deluxe v1.3.0: Could not find animation 'look_everyone_landing11'.

[16:22] Oryx Tempel: Ah, speaking of griefy images.... who's going to be moderating this new forum?

For discussion on Mods, skip ahead to [16:38] -blue

[16:22] Blue Linden: beta for these forum threads Nika?

[16:22] Thunderclap Morgridge: someone will upload goatse you know this

[16:22] Blue Linden: I know Thunder @_@

[16:22] Amaranthim Talon: oh god :(

[16:22] Nika Talaj: Blue: yes

[16:22] Chris Norse: The current forusm have been pretty self regulating with regards to posted images.

[16:22] Marianne McCann: Thunderclap - would not be th' first time

[16:22] Squirrel Wood: to fix our ao, either put in the missing animations OR edit them out of the config notecard and reload it.

[16:23] Nika Talaj: For the entire forum structure, as intended.

[16:23] Chris Norse: The community doesn't put up with that kind of crap.

[16:23] Marianne McCann: Ya, can post images to the current ones. Aside from some issues with one member postin dead animals an vomit stuff, it's been largely respected

[16:23] Blue Linden: yes, there are a number of discussions in progress....you should be able to see several

[16:23] Amaranthim Talon: sadly there is always some idiot pushing

[16:23] Nika Talaj: *puzzled* you mean, the comments areas on the existing blogs?

[16:23] Oryx Tempel: A moderator would be awfully nice. :)

[16:24] Rinoa Rives: I know I was really busy when I had the moderator job

[16:24] Soen Eber: Maybe just a voting system like on slashdot, so idiots will gradually be pushed "off the island"

[16:24] Amaranthim Talon: thankless job for sure

[16:24] Blue Linden: here's a pic from existing blog

[16:24] Blue Linden: http://screencast.com/t/aIQWdpGW4Q

[16:24] Thunderclap Morgridge: why is there an afk cloud in front of me?

[16:24] Amaranthim Talon: ur better off than i - i see no one at all

[16:24] Blue Linden: you can see the JOIN THE DISCUSSION button....

[16:25] Chris Norse: I would be voted off pretty quicky Soen.

[16:25] Nika Talaj: Ah, yes, I've done that, as you know :)

[16:25] Gayathri Linden: /btw, which I love

[16:25] HoneyBear Lilliehook: and this is the format they'll be in?

[16:25] Gayathri Linden: (the button, I mean. :) )

[16:25] Blue Linden: there will also be a tab called Discussion that list all the threads in a category

[16:25] Nika Talaj: But how do we see, for example, all the newest posts?

[16:25] Thunderclap Morgridge: ok

[16:25] Blue Linden: Seon, that's a great point and one I wanted to mention

[16:26] Soen Eber: well they don't really get voted off Chris, its just you need to manually click on a + button to view their comment instead of having it show automatically

[16:26] Blue Linden: i brought it up at previous office hour talking about Moderation but worth mentioning again

[16:26] Marianne McCann: (I hear an open mic)

[16:26] Blue Linden: the vote button or the mute button

[16:26] Blue Linden: i had a few people at last hour who loved the idea of muting people in blogs

[16:26] Blue Linden: and some who hated it

[16:27] Marianne McCann: I like it as an option, Blue, though I will admit to only ever having used it once

[16:27] Gayathri Linden: nika, that's not yet enabled in the communities, but if you go to the Answers community, you'll see examples of widgets that show you all the current discussions.

[16:27] Amaranthim Talon: it makes for cooler neves for me at tiems i can tell you

[16:27] Blue Linden: I'm not sure if Vote/Mute are options built in, but in some cases we may be able to create our own features...

[16:27] Oryx Tempel: Sorry if I'm missing something but this looks just like the Blog to me?

[16:27] Blue Linden: it's the same software Oryx.....

[16:27] Gayathri Linden: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/answers

[16:27] Thunderclap Morgridge: why not use a more advanced php forum layout

[16:27] Oryx Tempel: ah okay

[16:28] Blue Linden: there are a number of features including Forum tools and wiki tools

[16:28] Gayathri Linden: you can see 'popular questions', that can just as easily be 'popular discussions'

[16:28] Nika Talaj: I am, I have to admit, rather puzzled here. Are you saying there will be a blog called "Forum", which will have sub-blogs formatted exactly as they current ones are? And therefore, no way to see the most current posts across the entire forum? And no way to search an individual area, such as scripting?

[16:28] Blue Linden: and the Thread tools have the "SL Answers" option

[16:28] Gayathri Linden: as well as options for 'new discussions', etc.

[16:28] Blue Linden: Nika, it's possible to create widgets that could do all the things you mention

[16:28] Oryx Tempel: I don't think you're going to get a positive reaction to anything Answers related today, Gayathri. *smile*

[16:29] Blue Linden: right now we are using threaded discussions to compliment blog posts

[16:29] Nika Talaj: Ah, ok.

[16:29] Blue Linden: but it's possible to create a very seperate Forum section, with different UI, different features etc

[16:29] Gayathri Linden: Sorry, apparently I am missing something about SL Answers, Oryx.

[16:29] Blue Linden: it's very very early in the process now :0

[16:29] Oryx Tempel: Please yes, Blue!

[16:29] Blue Linden: :)

[16:29] Nika Talaj: Interesting. Is there any possibility of reformatting the section so that things are all more condensed?

[16:29] Marianne McCann founded the "Answers" section confusing and a little hard to manage, and is glad to hear that the forums will be a somewhat different system

[16:29] Blue Linden: let me find an example.....

[16:29] Gayathri Linden: what Blue is saying.

[16:29] Blue Linden: possible

[16:29] Amaranthim Talon: maybe this has been covered- and i apologize for the redundancy- but why cant the current forum be brought up todate software wise?

[16:30] Soen Eber: Blue, you keep saying widgets can be created, but the discussion forums have been a feted swamp when it comes to development andLinden love...

[16:30] Valentino Tendaze: agrees with Soen

[16:30] Thunderclap Morgridge: I tried answers as well but it wasnt as functional as the forum

[16:30] HoneyBear Lilliehook: this does not look like it would be easy to locate information

[16:30] Thunderclap Morgridge: and while the forum is old it is still good

[16:30] Blue Linden: I think that we have to work on making things easier to find

[16:30] Oryx Tempel: It doesn't, Honey. How's the search engine here, Blue?

[16:30] Thunderclap Morgridge nods

[16:30] Nika Talaj: (amar, no, they will be moving to the new clearspace software)

[16:31] Soen Eber: Search is essential for the content forums, finding scripts, finding texturing tips, etc

[16:31] Blue Linden: right now there are a couple things we need to change.....the sub channels don't act as aggregates for example

[16:31] Blue Linden: i HATE that ;p

[16:31] Blue Linden: agreed Soen

[16:31] Valentino Tendaze: will you be able to serach for something (say "door opening"), eg in both Scripting Tips and Script Library, for example?

[16:31] Amaranthim Talon: (Thanks Nika)

[16:31] Valentino Tendaze: yeah - what Soen said again ;-)

[16:31] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Blue, no disrespect, but working on making things easier to find should be in place before any move

[16:31] HoneyBear Lilliehook: The current forums are a wealth of information

[16:31] Valentino Tendaze: absolutely

[16:32] Blue Linden: Here's a page from the company that makes the software

[16:32] Blue Linden: http://www.jivesoftware.com/customers

[16:32] Valentino Tendaze: which is why so many of us came here...

[16:32] Gayathri Linden: Blue, that's the first feature that's on the list

[16:32] Blue Linden: you can see what dozens of their customers do with it

[16:32] Gayathri Linden: I hate that one too. Need aggregates

[16:32] Valentino Tendaze: I read the Blogs *less* now since you went to the new software

[16:32] Blue Linden: Honeybear, yeah....I agree....the forums are hugely valuable, not because of the software but because of what people have contributed

[16:32] Valentino Tendaze: I can never find anything

[16:32] Nika Talaj: What's the process going to be for getting to the new forums? Are you going to prototype the exact forum incarnation, and beta it? Or just jump to a clearspace blog and modify it as you go?

[16:32] Oryx Tempel: Same here, Valentino, re: Blogs

[16:32] Blue Linden: the easier it is to search that information the better

[16:33] Valentino Tendaze: I used to use the 'latest' on the SL homepage to find stuff

[16:33] Marianne McCann: Valentino, Sorry to say, but I have to admit that too.

[16:33] HoneyBear Lilliehook: I learned 90% of what I know from those forums and truly, 100% of SL history

[16:33] Valentino Tendaze: hmmm

[16:33] Blue Linden: we don't have plans to remove search or make it any harder to find things than it is now

[16:33] Valentino Tendaze: me too - same as HB

[16:33] Gayathri Linden: Oryx, plan is definately to beta it

[16:33] Thunderclap Morgridge: actually I like the blogs I am worried that it will decrease the use of the forums making it even harder for those who want to to get involved in sl

[16:33] Gayathri Linden: hence why blue was asking about 'does it make sense to beta with one group'

[16:33] Blue Linden: we would like to start building up new forums without removing information or search......

[16:33] HoneyBear Lilliehook: good concern Thunderclap

[16:34] Gayathri Linden: (My feeling is yes, it does, to beta with one group and get as much feedback and features up as we can)

[16:34] Blue Linden: well the long term plan, as with the blog part of the equation, is to create better communication tools

[16:34] Blue Linden: to let people get MORE involved

[16:34] Soen Eber: If search is crippled here, I can pretty much guarentee most of the content creation discussion will move to private boards. I'm a software developer r/l, and spend an hour a day on average searching. Its just that vital.

[16:34] Thunderclap Morgridge: agreed we want that

[16:34] Blue Linden: and to start integrating with the client

[16:34] Oryx Tempel: Oooh I would LOVE to help beta!

[16:34] HoneyBear Lilliehook: what is the current time frame for development Blue?

[16:34] Valentino Tendaze: agrees with Soen again

[16:34] Thunderclap Morgridge: and there are no functional private boards

[16:34] Blue Linden: so that for example, your inworld profile would be reflected on the blog/forums

[16:34] Marianne McCann: Likewise, Oryx

[16:34] HoneyBear Lilliehook: oh geez

[16:34] HoneyBear Lilliehook: is that *really* necessary?

[16:35] Amaranthim Talon: agreed- with HB-

[16:35] Amaranthim Talon: dont want that really

[16:35] Blue Linden: well, it's an option....not maditory

[16:35] Blue Linden: but Soen, what do you mean?

[16:35] HoneyBear Lilliehook: I more or less leave my inworld persona behind at the door to the forum

[16:35] Thunderclap Morgridge: I am banned from sluniverse because their cabal hates me and decided to persoanlly attack me and I filed a suit against cristano

[16:35] Marianne McCann: I kninda like that idea

[16:35] Gayathri Linden: dont want what, Amaranthim, HoneyBear?

[16:35] Amaranthim Talon: no

[16:35] Amaranthim Talon: not me

[16:35] Blue Linden: "if search is crippled" soen?

[16:35] HoneyBear Lilliehook: no inworld profiles showing in the *forum*

[16:35] Thunderclap Morgridge: thats the best private one

[16:35] Oryx Tempel: They don't want their inwolrd profiles to be hooked to the forum

[16:35] Blue Linden: you mean in existing forums?

[16:35] Amaranthim Talon: i prefer to be met and gotten to know bit b bit int e fourms

[16:35] Rinoa Rives: client intergration is something I see as vital... I really want to see more done here... perhapes we can even expand on profiles

[16:35] Ry Lock: inworld profile in forum Gayathri

[16:35] Amaranthim Talon: and i have more than two or three posts under m belt

[16:35] Alexander9 Carver: hello blue!

[16:35] Blue Linden: hi Alexander :)

[16:35] Marianne McCann: Panda attack!

[16:35] Gayathri Linden: yea, search on the forums will be important.

[16:36] Malarthi Behemoth sees no difference between the two, but I suspect I'm in a minority.

[16:36] Blue Linden: ookay quick vote......

[16:36] Oryx Tempel actually likes the idea of inworld profiles in the forums

[16:36] Soen Eber: Blue, what I mean is 90 % of what people do when creating stuff is "borrow liberally" from other people's efforts that they freely conribute - the "standing on the shoulders of giants" thing that many people in the science fields keep saying

[16:36] Thunderclap Morgridge: at leats you didnt sit on me again alexander

[16:36] Amaranthim Talon: no integrating the profiel into the new forum - does not please me

[16:36] Alexander9 Carver: vote 4 what?

[16:36] Blue Linden: Who hates the idea of profile being the same inworld and forum

[16:36] Thunderclap Morgridge: new forums

[16:36] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Aye

[16:36] Amaranthim Talon: ae

[16:36] Oryx Tempel: Nay

[16:36] Thunderclap Morgridge: I dont

[16:36] Malarthi Behemoth: Nay

[16:36] Nika Talaj: Don't care

[16:36] Amaranthim Talon: and aye to

[16:36] Marianne McCann: nay

[16:36] Soen Eber: By crippled, I mean, unable to find material at least as well as you can now

[16:36] Ardy Lay: nay

[16:36] Alexander9 Carver: i want new forums

[16:36] Chris Norse: I am the same both places

[16:37] Blue Linden: ah right Soen....yes....we shouldn't remove any search functionality, we should only imrpove upon it

[16:37] Amaranthim Talon: i am me regardless- but

[16:37] Thunderclap Morgridge: but I do want the forum decorum linked to your account like everything else

[16:37] Rinoa Rives: no problem... wouldnt mine new profiles though

[16:37] Blue Linden: Hmm....the group is pretty well split on the idea

[16:37] Alexander9 Carver: o hi mike denney. i didnt see u there

[16:37] Blue Linden: we'll have to talk more about that in detail for sure

[16:37] HoneyBear Lilliehook: There are things in my current inworld profile i don't necessarily need some yokel seeing

[16:37] Malarthi Behemoth: Blue, have a radio button default to off?

[16:37] Gordon Wendt: hi everyone, sorry if I'm running into anyone

[16:37] Oryx Tempel: (you did say "who HATES" the idea, right? So a Nay vote means we do like it?)

[16:37] HoneyBear Lilliehook: I am fairly high profile for "careers" and I don't need more IMs :(

[16:37] Blue Linden: that's an option *nods

[16:37] ChatBrat Pippita: I like profiles in forums. I like connecting what a person says on forums to who they are inworld. It gives me a frame of reference, puts their views in context with their inworld interests.

[16:37] Doctor Gascoigne: hey!

[16:37] Doctor Gascoigne: Gordon

[16:37] Valentino Tendaze: in world i am a merchant. Forums i may socialise or be a content creator or help others -

[16:37] Chris Norse: But the idea of a forum ban meaning an inworld ban, I am totally against.

[16:37] Blue Linden: or it might be I should say thehe

[16:37] Amaranthim Talon: i have nothing i wont share in either - but prefer the people get to knw me as i write

[16:37] Marianne McCann: HB - it would seem, to me, that the inworld profile is another place that needs some severe retooling, no?

[16:37] Thunderclap Morgridge: and can we get single log in right now I have to log in 4 different places outside the client

[16:37] Blue Linden: okay Chris, let's stop on that a second.,....

[16:38] Amaranthim Talon: agreed with that Chris

[16:38] Blue Linden: HI NEW PEOPLE THANKS FOR COMING

[16:38] Nika Talaj: I am most concerned about the usability, such as the ability to quickly scan thread titles, search well, collaborate on scripts.

[16:38] Talarus Luan: I'm not new. :P

[16:38] HoneyBear Lilliehook: agreed Nika

[16:38] Blue Linden: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FORUMS and just starting 2nd half of the hour

[16:38] Gordon Wendt: I'm still pushing for resident forum ops but I honestly doubt that'll ever happen

[16:38] Blue Linden: where i want to talk about MODERATION

[16:38] Malarthi Behemoth: Honeybear, last I checked forums are protected from ANYONE. Have to at least have an account.

[16:38] Oryx Tempel: agreed Nika

[16:38] Doctor Gascoigne: no mid inning stretch

[16:38] Rinoa Rives: ooo

[16:38] Blue Linden: Chris says that it's bad to have people banned from inworld if they are banned from forums

[16:38] Gordon Wendt: although LL has asked for mods several times and gotten some good names

[16:38] HoneyBear Lilliehook: yes, most of those looking for jobs lol

[16:38] Thunderclap Morgridge: a big stick is always good

[16:38] Blue Linden: this has always been the policy at the lab

[16:38] Gordon Wendt: hi Ciaran, long time no see

[16:38] Thunderclap Morgridge: I disagree

[16:39] HoneyBear Lilliehook: I believe it's a bad idea

[16:39] Ciaran Laval: Haha Gordon!

[16:39] Blue Linden: the idea being that behavior in forums is representative of behavior inworld

[16:39] Doctor Gascoigne: reword that Blue

[16:39] Evil Titler v2: Riseon Kosten needs a new title! To set it, anyone may say the text on /68.

[16:39] Blue Linden: hey Doc

[16:39] Gayathri Linden: currently, if you are banned in world, you are also banned from blogs.secondlife.com (logging in and posting)

[16:39] Malarthi Behemoth: Slow down for a sec guys, let the man speak.

[16:39] Oryx Tempel: Forum ban != inworld ban

[16:39] Doctor Gascoigne: banned for SL banned from forums or the other way around

[16:39] Evil Titler v2 whispers: Riseon Kosten has removed the Evil Titler.

[16:39] Talarus Luan: Well, it makes sense if you can ban people from the grid if they get banned from one region/estate. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense.

[16:39] Thunderclap Morgridge: if you had done that back in 2005 a certain individual wouldnt have to be banned from the jira

[16:39] Blue Linden: both ways

[16:39] Nika Talaj: I would be very surprised if LL ever abandoned that policy, though it is widely resented.

[16:39] Nika Talaj: But

[16:39] Doctor Gascoigne: sounds good to me

[16:39] Oryx Tempel: ok shhh let Blue talk

[16:39] Feline Slade: It's a bad idea. People who are contributors to the forums now might feel the need not to contribute for fear of losing inworld assets to a ban.

[16:39] Blue Linden: if you are suspended from forums, you can get suspension inworld as well

[16:39] Chris Norse: I argue, I jump in with both feet in the forums. Inworld, I am always a perfect gentleman. It is the basis of our INworld Forum group. Inworld we show respect.

[16:39] Doctor Gascoigne: how about punative damages

[16:39] Blue Linden: it's meant as a deterrent....

[16:39] Nika Talaj: What Qie and I proposed was an appeals process.

[16:39] Techwolf Lupindo: I good place to learn about resident moderation is to take a good look a slashdot.org. They do have a history page discribing the plues and pitfalls of user moderation.

[16:40] Gordon Wendt: Thunderlap, if it's the individual I'm thinking of he was banned from the JIRA just recently

[16:40] Chris Norse: If you mean deterrent to debate, then you might be right.

[16:40] Blue Linden: QUICK VOTE....how many people think inworld suspension for forum violation does NOT act as a deterrent

[16:40] HoneyBear Lilliehook: I DO NOT

[16:40] Thunderclap Morgridge: i agree. I think decorum is imprtantyes anbd he was banned from the old forums in 205

[16:40] Oryx Tempel: I DO NOT

[16:40] Amaranthim Talon: i think it wd act as a detterent

[16:40] Amaranthim Talon: but also a deterrent to speak ones mind

[16:40] Thunderclap Morgridge: but have never been banned in world

[16:40] Talarus Luan: I suppose if someone did something so horrific that you simply didn't want them on the service at all, no matter where it happened, then yeah, but those circumstances are pretty rare.

[16:40] Ciaran Laval: It's a deterrent yes

[16:40] Chris Norse: It only acts to deter free debate

[16:40] Marianne McCann: I think it would act as a deterrant, but should be reserved for only the worst of the worst

[16:40] Nika Talaj: I think it acts as a deterrent, but it is oppressive

[16:40] Oryx Tempel: you need to ask the reverse too, though, Blue

[16:41] Blue Linden: so those who say Do Not, think that we should stop removing people from inworld when we remove them from forums

[16:41] Driftwood Miles: depends on the criteria of banning surely?????

[16:41] Gordon Wendt: it's a detterent but not muchof onebecaus of lts

[16:41] Doctor Gascoigne: there is a certain form of expected behavior in a community it amazes me MORE people do not KNOW this

[16:41] Malarthi Behemoth: Chris, you don't get free debate here anyway

[16:41] Blue Linden: again, it looks a bit like we are split down the middle

[16:41] Malarthi Behemoth: You want free... Well...

[16:41] Rinoa Rives: I agree with Mari there

[16:41] Blue Linden: this is a great crowd :D

[16:41] ChatBrat Pippita: It is a deterrant

[16:41] Malarthi Behemoth: Yeah, there's not much left for free.

[16:41] Thunderclap Morgridge: i disgaree cheis being on second citizen until its death in 2007 I disagree

[16:41] Amaranthim Talon: ook- i can think of one person in paticular whose conduct i wd have banned from the forums

[16:41] Valentino Tendaze: suspension would be a deterrent

[16:41] Techwolf Lupindo just discovers once and identify an object now in chat. "Just click on it like any other name in chat and a popup saying who and where the object owner is.

[16:41] Amaranthim Talon: but wha the does inworld is beside the point

[16:41] Chris Norse: We get fairly free debate.

[16:41] Doctor Gascoigne: there is no freedom of speech with a TOS attached

[16:41] Amaranthim Talon: i dont like that kind of control

[16:41] HoneyBear Lilliehook: But inworld, he's fine Amara

[16:41] Gayathri Linden: blue, can you review why someone currently gets banned in the forums? (I actually dont know the policy)

[16:41] Thunderclap Morgridge: it shouldnt be draconian

[16:41] Oryx Tempel: Agreed Amaranthim

[16:41] Ciaran Laval: However an inworld ban for forum behaviour should only apply if forum behaviour causes inworld harm

Ah, that's an interesting variation on the theme...what would be an example of "inworld harm"? Loss of business due to libel? Would it have to be measurable? Good topic for future office hour. -blue

[16:41] HoneyBear Lilliehook: agreed Ciaran

[16:41] Oryx Tempel: inworld = separate from forum

[16:41] HoneyBear Lilliehook: and hi

[16:41] Rinoa Rives: only the worst cases in forum violations should have an inworld ban

[16:41] Blue Linden: yes Gayathri, support handles them the same way as inworld ban

[16:41] Valentino Tendaze: you shoudl come on the forums more often, Blue ;-)

[16:41] Ciaran Laval: Hi HoneyBear

[16:42] Thunderclap Morgridge: think PN

[16:42] Gayathri Linden: /nods

[16:42] Oryx Tempel groans

[16:42] Blue Linden: well okay, that's a good point for future discussion.....I think we'll come back to that again.

[16:42] Thunderclap Morgridge: and 4chan

[16:42] Driftwood Miles: how can you ask that question Blue without stating what the criteria is?

[16:42] Doctor Gascoigne: people should agree to disagree and not act like 4 year olds full stop its a community it has standards COMMUNITY STANDARDS

[16:42] Techwolf Lupindo: I thnk your chair if full Blue. :-)

[16:42] Soen Eber: I wonder if forum banning should be a side issue - what else needs to be discussed in the remaining 18 minutes?

[16:42] Chris Norse: I might support it for disclosure violations, but not expressing opinions.

[16:42] Rinoa Rives: otherwise Forum bans would be enough... being different mediums people act differently between them

[16:42] Nika Talaj: I agree, Soen

[16:42] DancesWithRobots Soyer: My problem with far reaching bans is Lindens tend to shoot first and let God sort it out

[16:42] Talarus Luan: The forum is a venue. Just like this office here. If someone misbehaves here, do you boot them out of the region, or completely off the grid?

[16:42] Blue Linden: another point I wanted to pass by you guys was 3rd party moderation.....LL hiring a group to moderate for us

[16:42] Amaranthim Talon: h hey

[16:42] Thunderclap Morgridge: but doc people wnat to act like 4yrs becaus ethat s what some people think is fun

[16:42] Amaranthim Talon: thats where the peopl are!

[16:42] Amaranthim Talon: hah

[16:42] Doctor Gascoigne: Dances how do you know this

[16:42] Oryx Tempel: Soen: we need to make it VERY CLEAR that we need to keep the forums. In some way.

[16:43] Doctor Gascoigne: you would know that how

[16:43] Marianne McCann wrinkles her nose

[16:43] Blue Linden: yes, very crowded now....need ....bigger.....chair!

[16:43] Valentino Tendaze: Guys - i'll give up my perch for someone else - it's way past bed-time here. I just wanted to add my support for the resident forums. G'night all

[16:43] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Blue, surely you can get enough resident volunteers to moderate those forums

[16:43] Oryx Tempel: Not XStreet forums, not SLU.

[16:43] Ciaran Laval: Agreed Chris, or deliberately trying to undermine an inworld business but just for getting in a huff with someone it's just stifling discussion

[16:43] Soen Eber: 3rd party moderators. Wonderful, someone both the users and the Lindens can agree to hate.

[16:43] HoneyBear Lilliehook: I used to mod for AOL...it was all resident based

[16:43] Chris Norse: NC soft went to 3rd party moderation, didn't notice much of a difference.

[16:43] Blue Linden: lol SOen :D

[16:43] Doctor Gascoigne: most people have no idea what the Gteam has to do on an average night

[16:43] Doctor Gascoigne: or who they are

[16:43] Thunderclap Morgridge: I have yet to a linden do something completely boneheaded without justication

note from Blue - This is true...my completely boneheaded moves are ALWAYS justifiable ;)

[16:43] Doctor Gascoigne: so how could you deduce what they decide

[16:43] Nika Talaj: Blue, are you outsourceing moderation now in the blogs? Will you for the forums?

[16:43] Gordon Wendt: [expletive deleted] test viewers

[16:43] HoneyBear Lilliehook: lol...then you've been fortunate Thunder

[16:43] Oryx Tempel: And why outsource mods?

[16:44] Blue Linden: in theory 3rd party moderators wouldn't be much of a difference at all...wanted to see if anyone hated the idea.....

[16:44] Talarus Luan: 3rd party moderation: Depends on the 3rd party, but a company with no VW/MMO experience would likely screw things up worse.

[16:44] Valentino Tendaze: g'night all

[16:44] Thunderclap Morgridge: interesting idea can we keep the xstreet forums live

[16:44] Blue Linden: so far nobody has told me they hate it violently

[16:44] HoneyBear Lilliehook: gn Valentino ;)

[16:44] Blue Linden: nite Valentino :)

[16:44] Gordon Wendt: I hate the idea of 3rd party moderators

there's one - blue

[16:44] Marianne McCann: I'm not sure on that Blue. I mean, it does help s far as relieving pressure on LLs workforce, but I wonder if they'd be aware/sensitive to the history and mores of the forums and SL users?

[16:44] HoneyBear Lilliehook: I agree Gordon

there's two - blue

[16:44] Blue Linden: Gordon, hi :)

[16:44] Thunderclap Morgridge: agreed with talarus as well look at soe matrix boards

[16:44] Oryx Tempel: Agreed Mari

[16:44] Nika Talaj: Agree, mari

[16:44] Inara Pey: I hate it violently, Blue

three -blue

[16:44] Oryx Tempel: We need someone who knows SL

[16:44] HoneyBear Lilliehook: I think it requires someone who knows SL, knows the players

[16:44] Blue Linden: why not 3rd party mods.....if the policy is the same, what makes non-lindens worse choice?

[16:44] Malarthi Behemoth: Marianne, are curent mods as you describe?

[16:44] Oryx Tempel: Not some schumck who can barely login to the interwebz

[16:44] Blue Linden: hehe

[16:44] Thunderclap Morgridge: and is will to be a fair mod

[16:44] Malarthi Behemoth: Blue, it's the people. It's all about the people.

[16:45] Talarus Luan: Lack of experience

[16:45] Marianne McCann: Mal - current mods? Where?

[16:45] Blue Linden: well, they'd be well versed in forums

[16:45] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Why not use resident volunteers?

[16:45] Gordon Wendt: Blue, a third party has no idea of the culture in the forums, no vibe of the community, they will be resented and they have no contextual sense to anything said, use res-mods, pick a small group at first, use rotating groups if that'll work better and have a few lindens who oversight them

[16:45] Doctor Gascoigne: its not rocket science its parameters

[16:45] Blue Linden: power to em, mal

[16:45] Malarthi Behemoth: Marianne, well... Lindens.

[16:45] Driftwood Miles: I would have no problem with forum outsourcing as long as banning or suspension decisions were via ll and followed a fair procedure

[16:45] Thunderclap Morgridge: power blue

[16:45] Gordon Wendt: that type of system works well enough with volunteers

[16:45] Soen Eber: Why not just give demigod powers to some forum regulars in exchange for a slight tier bump?

[16:45] Doctor Gascoigne: no one trusts resident volunteers with any major roles

[16:45] Rinoa Rives: the moderators in question would to have a repore with the frequent users of the Forums... experiance asside

[16:45] Doctor Gascoigne: ever

[16:45] Malarthi Behemoth: Soen

[16:45] Amaranthim Talon: even people from within wd be resented at first

[16:45] Blue Linden: well Gordon, a moderation company would have experience with trolling etc etc

[16:45] Amaranthim Talon: until the proved fairness

[16:45] Malarthi Behemoth: There's never going to be compensation.

[16:45] Nika Talaj: Whoever is a moderator, they will not be senior Lindens like Blue here, so what does it matter whether they're a Linden or not?

[16:45] Oryx Tempel: Gordon, people have been volunteering for YEARS. No response.

[16:45] Marianne McCann: Mal - those few who have done scarce moderation in the forums over the last ±2 years have been fairly well versed, yes

[16:45] Gordon Wendt: Doc, we all trusted Strife didn't we?

[16:45] Blue Linden: is knowing SL-specific trolling critical to the position?

[16:45] Talarus Luan: Not necessarily, Blue.

[16:45] Chris Norse: Soen, anyone who would want the power should not have it.

[16:45] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Blue, if you train your volunteers, they'd have the same experience

[16:46] HoneyBear Lilliehook: we really hate the idea of non-residents modding us

[16:46] Oryx Tempel: Blue YES

[16:46] Gordon Wendt: Blue, as far as I'm concerned the moderation company are trolls and you can quote me to the G-Team on taht

[16:46] Talarus Luan: Any idiot can set up a "community management" company.

[16:46] Blue Linden: yeah...resident moderation has not been well received by the forum folks

[16:46] Thunderclap Morgridge: strife is hated by the SLuniverse cabal as well. He is an excellent mod

[16:46] Amaranthim Talon: and sadl no matter waht

[16:46] Doctor Gascoigne: why would you use the word IDIOT

[16:46] Amaranthim Talon: there will be calls of favoritsim

[16:46] Doctor Gascoigne: thats not even a point

[16:46] laser Bumblefoot: yo

[16:46] Talarus Luan: I don't think it is so much the "resident" part as the "moderation" part.

[16:46] Oryx Tempel: I adore Strife.

[16:46] Blue Linden: Gordon, you mean the existing support folks? cause we don't have 3rd party mods yet

[16:46] Malarthi Behemoth: Blue, why not? Because they want to (forum equivalent) run around naked on fire?

[16:46] Techwolf Lupindo: Third party mods can be more suspiiable to playing politics with no oversight. Unliess there is a apeall to any moderation to LL, third pary mods are soso, if there is a apeal process that LL acually listen too, third pary mods would be good. Too many times i've seen mods/admin go on power trip simply becuase they didnt' like someone.

[16:46] Soen Eber: Strife burned himself out. or herself, I forget which.

[16:46] Blue Linden: I, sadly, am the lone moderator on blogs @_@

[16:46] Doctor Gascoigne: poor you Blue

[16:47] Doctor Gascoigne: my condolences

[16:47] Gayathri Linden: I was going to say, I think Blue is the only moderator

[16:47] HoneyBear Lilliehook: I don't know Talarus, I really think moderation is necessary

[16:47] Thunderclap Morgridge: i know

[16:47] Marianne McCann: Strife was fab. Millie and Cybin are not bad neither

[16:47] Talarus Luan: I am not disagreeing.

[16:47] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Many of us here know exactly why

[16:47] Nika Talaj: If there is 3rd party moderation, there DOES need to be an appeals process that involves Lindens.

[16:47] Blue Linden: OKAY QUICK VOTE......3rd party mods GOOD or EVIL

[16:47] HoneyBear Lilliehook: EVIL

[16:47] Oryx Tempel: Evil

[16:47] Malarthi Behemoth: Neutral.

[16:47] Nika Talaj: So that no-one bans Carl Metropolitan again :)

[16:47] Thunderclap Morgridge: evil

[16:47] Amaranthim Talon: evil

[16:47] Ciaran Laval: Depends

[16:47] Riseon Kosten: evil

[16:47] Nika Talaj: neutral

[16:47] Gayathri Linden: good. :) I dont want blue to keep doing it

[16:47] Driftwood Miles: depends

[16:47] Marianne McCann: Lawrful neutral

[16:47] Rinoa Rives: Depends

[16:47] Ardy Lay: evil

[16:47] Doctor Gascoigne: UNDECIDED

[16:47] Blue Linden: just talking forums here Nika ;p

[16:47] Wyn Galbraith patpat's Blue

[16:47] Soen Eber: neutral to evil

[16:47] Chris Norse: Neutral, but then I think most mods are evil

[16:47] Bradley Bracken: evi;l

[16:47] Rinoa Rives: rofl

[16:47] Trinity Coulter: the strange question is why is Linden Lab averse so often to the idea of people setting up in positions of authority when they have claimed to aim for "Your World, Your Imagination"

[16:47] Blue Linden: okay...looks like we're leaning Chaotic Evil on this one

[16:47] Sin Toshi: neutral...depends on quality of moderation

[16:47] Malarthi Behemoth: Marianne wins internets.

[16:47] Oryx Tempel: LOL

[16:47] Gordon Wendt: Blue, speaking into the future on that one, the whole idea of a 3rd party provider makes them seem olike trolls even though we don't know (officially) who they are yet

[16:48] Oryx Tempel: Woot dungeons and dragons geeks

[16:48] Marianne McCann curtsies

[16:48] Techwolf Lupindo: Blue, if you set youself as top mod that one can apeal to from lower mods, vote yes, if one can NOT apeal any moderator moderation, vote NO.

I would prefer to see an Ombudsman role, personally....not sure how likely that is -blue

[16:48] Talarus Luan: In theory, neutral. In practice, well, experience says "ZOMG! NO!"

[16:48] Blue Linden: we have about 15 minutes left and I want to hit on a big topic here......MODERATION POLICY.....let me give a tiny intro to the topic first

[16:48] Thunderclap Morgridge: I have seen to much stupidity to think 3d party moad will work

[16:48] ChatBrat Pippita: Mods should be SLers' super secret alts - so no one knows who to hate

[16:48] Nika Talaj listens closely

[16:48] Thunderclap Morgridge: lol

[16:48] Trinity Coulter: the question is... are forums supposed to be a resident to resident tool or a Linden Lab tool?

[16:48] Blue Linden: I'm an interim blog marm....we are hiring a Communications Manager to do this officially, but I'll be proposing a unified Moderation Policy for Blogs, Jira, Forums

[16:48] Gordon Wendt: If 3rd party mods come in I will happily give them as hard a time as possible until I am forum banned and will urge as many others who will listen to do teh same

[16:49] Malarthi Behemoth: Trinity, why not both?

[16:49] Blue Linden: and that includes things like "do people get banned from inworld" etc etc

[16:49] Gordon Wendt: Blue, can you speak to whether the last comm. manager left willingly or was pushed? or is that confidential?

[16:49] Oryx Tempel: [16:48] ChatBrat Pippita: Mods should be SLers' super secret alts - so no one knows who to hate [AGREED]

[16:49] Thunderclap Morgridge waggs finger at Gordon

[16:49] Trinity Coulter: Malarathi, if its resident to resident, then Linden Lab doesn't need to worry about it

[16:49] Nika Talaj: Wait ... will Jira participants lose the ability to close bugs, etc.?

[16:49] HoneyBear Lilliehook: please let Blue speak

[16:49] Blue Linden: i really don't know Gordon

[16:49] Gordon Wendt: ok, fair enough

[16:49] Talarus Luan: Katt wouldn't drink the kool-aid.

[16:49] Malarthi Behemoth: Who was last comm manager?

[16:49] Gordon Wendt: that's another job you'll never get anyone familiar with SL to do

[16:50] Blue Linden: i came into work and catherine said HI BLUE....Blue...you're my favorite do you know that? lol

[16:50] Techwolf Lupindo: misc-2727 needs to be re-opened.

[16:50] Gordon Wendt: unless they were insane

I guess that's me ;D -blue

[16:50] Oryx Tempel: LET BLUE TALK

[16:50] Blue Linden: so I said, sure I'll help with blogs, but only if Gayathri protects me lol

[16:50] Gayathri Linden: Poor Blue. Catherine is very persuasive

[16:50] Trinity Coulter: Linden Lab doesn't hire 3rd party people to hopto your land to resolve disputes

[16:50] Rinoa Rives giggles

[16:50] Trinity Coulter: they delegate that to land owners

[16:50] Wyn Galbraith: One of my favorites too *flitters eyelashes*

[16:50] Blue Linden: SO.....moderation....i am going to propose that it's the same for jira, blogs, forums

[16:50] Blue Linden: consistency is critical

[16:50] Gordon Wendt: no but LL has outsourced first tier systems work for sims which from whwat I've heard is working well

[16:50] Nika Talaj: I am not sure the Jira can share policy with the other two ... different community and needs

[16:51] HoneyBear Lilliehook: so if someone is banned from the forum, they cannot post in the jira??

[16:51] Gayathri Linden: that makes it easier for support or anyone else having to do the jorb.

[16:51] Blue Linden: the level of moderation is what I'm concerned with here.....

[16:51] Kara Spengler: hiya, sorry I was late, playing with my bike

[16:51] Malarthi Behemoth: Trinity, it's useful because we can talk about... Well.. Stuff. It's useful to LL because they know what stuff we're interested in.

[16:51] Blue Linden: yeah that's what I'm wondeering Nika

[16:51] Gordon Wendt: Blue, things are apparently changing on the wiki with the kb changes

[16:51] HoneyBear Lilliehook: so if someone is banned from the forum, they cannot post in the jira??

[16:51] Thunderclap Morgridge: I say let who ever did the adult move be the comm manamger they are already hated

[16:51] Oryx Tempel: Oh bad idea

[16:51] Chris Norse: But one thing to realize, so much of SL touches RL. To call things off topic, just because they merge.....is over moderations.

[16:51] Techwolf Lupindo: Blue, consistency is nice. With subsection for each one, each area has its own quirks of edge cases.

[16:51] Blue Linden: does anyone think that one of those three, say Jira, should be stricter?

[16:51] Trinity Coulter: Malarthi, Linden Lab has its blogs and the associated specific formums... the rest of it is resident to resident

[16:51] Blue Linden: or perhaps that one should be fully un-moderated?

[16:51] Nika Talaj: *thinks* I wouldn't strain to put the same policy for Jira

[16:51] Ciaran Laval: They're different areas Blue

[16:51] Blue Linden: or do they all need a similar level of oversight?

[16:51] Chris Norse: Fully unmoderated.

[16:51] Nika Talaj: i think blogs and forum can share same policy

[16:52] Chris Norse: That sounds good.

[16:52] Amaranthim Talon: agreed with chirs re the topic thing

[16:52] Oryx Tempel: Similar policies

[16:52] Blue Linden: *nods

[16:52] HoneyBear Lilliehook: jira should be different

[16:52] Malarthi Behemoth: Blogs need administration, not moderation.

[16:52] Gordon Wendt: I think moderation on the JIRA works fine, if people get out of line Alexa or Rob act on it and they do a good job on it

[16:52] Malarthi Behemoth: Sorry

[16:52] Thunderclap Morgridge: Inara your chair is eating you

[16:52] Malarthi Behemoth: Not blogs

[16:52] Malarthi Behemoth: Jira

[16:52] Malarthi Behemoth sighs

[16:52] Amaranthim Talon: the cries of off topic have alwas annoyed the crap out of me

[16:52] Talarus Luan: Venue-specific rules should apply.

[16:52] Nika Talaj: (Actually, the current forums are largely unmoderated and doing well, I am kinda shocked)

[16:52] Gordon Wendt: wiki is generally find although I've had my issues with the g-team on taht

[16:52] Gayathri Linden: Malarthi, what's the difference between administration and moderation

[16:52] Chris Norse: Yes they are Nika

[16:52] Gordon Wendt: *fine

[16:52] Gayathri Linden: ?

[16:52] Marianne McCann: Agreed with HB. Jira needs to be stricter, as a tech resources. Others should be very hands off

[16:52] Blue Linden: hehe yes, i am too Nika lol

[16:52] Amaranthim Talon: agrees with Nika

[16:52] Talarus Luan: However, there can be some rules which are sacrosanct over all venues.

[16:52] Amaranthim Talon: we take cae of our own retty much

[16:52] Talarus Luan: Mostly things like the CS

[16:52] Doctor Gascoigne: blogs need moderation

[16:53] Blue Linden: okay, let's do some quick votes and then we can open this up for some freestyle discussion.....

[16:53] Oryx Tempel: Blogs need administration not moderation

[16:53] Blue Linden: JIRA MODERATION SHOULD BE STRICTER.......YES or NO?

[16:53] Malarthi Behemoth: Gayathri, things that we can't do that need to be done compose administration. Things that affect interpersonal relations are moderation. To me, at least.

[16:53] Doctor Gascoigne: blogs need moderation

[16:53] Thunderclap Morgridge: Nika on content creation and resident answers are alive and its in content creatoins best interest to keep it civil

[16:53] HoneyBear Lilliehook: YES

[16:53] Trinity Coulter: NO

[16:53] Oryx Tempel: YES

[16:53] Ciaran Laval: NO

[16:53] Thunderclap Morgridge: yes

[16:53] Wyn Galbraith: Yes

[16:53] Malarthi Behemoth: Blogs need moderation Oryx.

[16:53] Doctor Gascoigne: YES

[16:53] Blue Linden: hi Trinny :)

[16:53] Marianne McCann: yes

[16:53] Amaranthim Talon: moderation implies cesorship

[16:53] Amaranthim Talon: agrees with Orxy

[16:53] Soen Eber: Yes

[16:53] Blue Linden: lol mal

[16:53] Trinity Coulter: hi

[16:53] Ardy Lay: yes

[16:53] Gordon Wendt: Blue, assuming that the proposed wiki changes go through that's going to be an interesting test case on resident's being given certain abilities if they are trusted and useful

[16:53] Techwolf Lupindo: YES, my fist jira bug report got trash by jira trolls.

[16:53] DancesWithRobots Soyer: yes

[16:53] Malarthi Behemoth: You're being censored Amaranthim.

[16:53] Nika Talaj: Different, not stricter

[16:53] Malarthi Behemoth: Everywhere.

[16:53] Thunderclap Morgridge: censorship isnt evil if done correctly

[16:53] Malarthi Behemoth: Fact of life.

Looks like STRICTER is up by a nose -blue

[16:53] Blue Linden: okay....next quick vote.....

[16:53] Doctor Gascoigne: censorship implies freedom of speech its a business you have no freedom get over it

[16:53] Trinity Coulter: JIra doesn't need moderation, it needs to be more user friendly and really needs a entry-level version of itself

[16:54] Amaranthim Talon: to some degree sure

[16:54] Techwolf Lupindo: I almost left the bug/opensource/etc/ community because of it.

[16:54] Gordon Wendt: I agree on blog comments too, I wish they'd moderate those better

[16:54] Blue Linden: FORUMS SHOULD NOT BE MODERATED AT ALL......TRUE or FALSE

[16:54] Amaranthim Talon: but not stomped on when one disagrees

[16:54] Chris Norse: True

[16:54] Malarthi Behemoth: Taking down pictures of Goatse is censorship. Everyone appreciates that.

[16:54] Ciaran Laval: FALSE

[16:54] Riseon Kosten: TRUE

[16:54] HoneyBear Lilliehook: FALSE

[16:54] Oryx Tempel: FALSE

[16:54] Marianne McCann: false

[16:54] Thunderclap Morgridge: i vehementaly disagree doc

[16:54] Nika Talaj: True

[16:54] Trinity Coulter: Blue that is a silly question

[16:54] Doctor Gascoigne: the illusion of freedom of speech is an illusion

[16:54] Amaranthim Talon: i dont like to see things shut down because one or more do nt agree

[16:54] Gordon Wendt: FALSE

[16:54] DancesWithRobots Soyer: fals

[16:54] Ardy Lay: true

[16:54] Sin Toshi: true

[16:54] Nika Talaj: try it unmoderated

[16:54] ChatBrat Pippita: FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[16:54] Thunderclap Morgridge: False

[16:54] Doctor Gascoigne: FALSE

[16:54] Talarus Luan: Depends on the forum.

[16:54] Blue Linden: well, it's been proposed here Trinity....

[16:54] Soen Eber: only for spammers and uberblantent trolls

[16:54] Wyn Galbraith: TRUE

[16:54] Talarus Luan: I think you're trying to overgeneralize

[16:54] HoneyBear Lilliehook: We're been running unmoderated for months

[16:54] Fury Rosewood: moderated by those who deserve the power

[16:54] Trinity Coulter: yes, but completely without any control will obviosuly lead to madness

[16:54] Techwolf Lupindo: Grey area. Try unmoderated if you like 4chan. :-)

[16:54] Blue Linden: looks like most people are leaning towards moderation

[16:54] Malarthi Behemoth: Proposal: Forum cornfield :D

[16:54] Blue Linden: okay one more....

[16:54] Wyn Galbraith: I mean FALSE! Read it wrong

[16:54] Thunderclap Morgridge: secod citizen shwed that to fail dramatcially

[16:54] Talarus Luan: Moderation is not about power.

[16:54] Oryx Tempel: we DO need some mods though, Honey

[16:55] HoneyBear Lilliehook: I agree

[16:55] Talarus Luan: Moderation is a nasty job.

[16:55] HoneyBear Lilliehook: due to people like P

[16:55] Oryx Tempel: yeah

[16:55] Gordon Wendt: HoneyBear, and how long is the "let this one die" thread now?

[16:55] Chris Norse: Mute takes care of P

[16:55] Sin Toshi: just add an ignore feature to the forum and open the throttle

[16:55] HoneyBear Lilliehook: why is that an issue?

[16:55] Ciaran Laval: We have Mods Cybin pops in

[16:55] Ardy Lay: MODERATE and CONSIDERATE moderation it very light-handed and desrireable in the forums

[16:55] Driftwood Miles: these are such loose questionsoffering no basis for an informed answer

[16:55] Talarus Luan: It's a pain in the tail, and no one appreciates it.

[16:55] Blue Linden: IS LIGHT MODERATION ALWAYS BETTER THAN HEAVY MODERATION @#*& YES or &*^$# NO

[16:55] Nika Talaj: YES

[16:55] Thunderclap Morgridge: there is a purpose for the cornfield

[16:55] Ciaran Laval: YES

[16:55] Oryx Tempel: YES

[16:55] Marianne McCann: Yes!

[16:55] Chris Norse: Very light, yes

[16:55] Thunderclap Morgridge: yes

[16:55] HoneyBear Lilliehook: LIGHT, YES

[16:55] Feline Slade: Yes

[16:55] Wyn Galbraith: YES

[16:55] Soen Eber: YES DEFINATELY

[16:55] DancesWithRobots Soyer: yes

[16:55] Nika Talaj: Light moderation is ideal.

[16:55] Ardy Lay: YES

[16:55] Blue Linden: okay that one was easy lol

[16:55] Riseon Kosten: @#*& YES

[16:55] Rinoa Rives: yes

[16:55] Malarthi Behemoth: Middle path.

[16:55] Techwolf Lupindo: yes

[16:55] Gordon Wendt: pie

[16:55] Talarus Luan: Fair moderation, I would say.

[16:55] Blue Linden: lol

[16:55] Driftwood Miles: define light?

[16:55] Oryx Tempel: chaotic good

[16:55] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Simply someone who can step in and handle things when requested

[16:55] Fury Rosewood: yes fair moderation

[16:55] Doctor Gascoigne: UNDECIDED

[16:56] Blue Linden: right Talarus

[16:56] Thunderclap Morgridge: light =pie

[16:56] Doctor Gascoigne: light=oh please stop

[16:56] Oryx Tempel: pecan pie?

[16:56] Trinity Coulter: I would agree with light moderation, but also if needed, heavy with specific people

[16:56] Doctor Gascoigne: then no

[16:56] Talarus Luan: Sometimes, you have to be the heavy.

[16:56] ChatBrat Pippita: fair moderation is a win

[16:56] Trinity Coulter: but fair

[16:56] Thunderclap Morgridge: choclate pie

[16:56] Bradley Bracken: Yes

[16:56] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Blue, we seriously have been fine, but we do need someone who can stop the ugly when it gets tooooo ugly

[16:56] Techwolf Lupindo: There are times when one person in a really bad mood, do we punished them forevr for just that one rant?

[16:56] Wyn Galbraith: Flan

[16:56] Oryx Tempel: agreed HOney

[16:56] Blue Linden: agreed HoneyBear

[16:56] Chris Norse: I have seen very little that mute wouldn't moderate

[16:56] Thunderclap Morgridge: like afformention jira person

[16:56] Ardy Lay: I also agree with Honeybear

[16:56] HoneyBear Lilliehook: The forums have been unmoderated for months, and really, there have been few issues that weren't resolved by the community

[16:56] Blue Linden: So it's almost 5 and I don't want to keep anyone that has to be somewhere so THANK YOU FOR COMING.....but I'll stick around for a bit and we can keep going

[16:56] Soen Eber: it could even be semi-moderated - voting buttons would only page a mod, instead of actually doing something -

[16:56] Malarthi Behemoth: The necessity is, to borrow from elemental ideals, water.

[16:56] Oryx Tempel: Chris there are certain threads that should have been locked ages ago

[16:57] Driftwood Miles: define too ugly?

[16:57] Blue Linden: because this is a good group....this kind of feedback is always very helpful to me

[16:57] Marianne McCann: HB - they have not been unmoderated, but very lightly modded

[16:57] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Vicious personal attacks Driftwood

[16:57] Amaranthim Talon: i like the soen suggestin revoting on stuff fo rmoderation

[16:57] Ciaran Laval: Agreed Mari

[16:57] Thunderclap Morgridge: tenshi?

[16:57] Chris Norse: I usually disagreed with them being locked.

[16:57] Trinity Coulter: Blue, it needs to be stated clearly how these various resources affect or don't affect one's inworld account

[16:57] Blue Linden: someone mentioned resident court of appeals........i don't think setting up resident court is do-able....

[16:57] Marianne McCann: I've sen Strife, Millie, and Cybin close a thread or two, in severe cases

[16:57] Thunderclap Morgridge: shopping cart disco

[16:57] Techwolf Lupindo: How is spam taken care of on the forums now?

[16:57] HoneyBear Lilliehook: extremely lightly Mari ;)

[16:57] Gordon Wendt: Blue, did you see my comments before about the JIRA changes that are being worked on and how that may be a good test for resident semi-controlled systems?

[16:57] Nika Talaj: I think a Linden court of appeals makes more sense.

[16:57] Blue Linden: but i think a moderation policy should have an Ombudsman

[16:57] HoneyBear Lilliehook: lol....we yell them down Tech

[16:57] Wyn Galbraith: I don't think a Resident court would be fair

[16:57] Nika Talaj: nods.

[16:58] Thunderclap Morgridge: I agree put it in the cornfield

[16:58] Blue Linden: ah...sorry I missed that one

[16:58] Wyn Galbraith: Unless you get Judge Judy

[16:58] Talarus Luan: Personally, I would love to have threads which give the thread starter control of when to lock them. That can be useful.

[16:58] Gordon Wendt: Nika, will people trust a Linden court more than a resident court?

[16:58] Blue Linden: what kind of self-control Gordon?

[16:58] Thunderclap Morgridge: "its time for the Peoples court

[16:58] Nika Talaj: Yes.

[16:58] HoneyBear Lilliehook: oh, that would be nice Talarus

[16:58] Marianne McCann: If LL has any openings for ombudsmen, let me know so I can update the resume

[16:58] Blue Linden: i don't think they would trust resident any more than Linden

[16:58] Wyn Galbraith: The Second People's Court

[16:58] HoneyBear Lilliehook: being able to lock my own thread....awesome

[16:58] Blue Linden: lol

[16:58] Soen Eber: Does Judge Judy even HAVE an email address, let alone an avatar?

[16:58] Kara Spengler: blue: on the tech side, how are the stress tests doing? ppl have found lots of chinks in the usability

A couple yes ....http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-982 -blue

[16:58] Thunderclap Morgridge: yes

[16:58] Wyn Galbraith: That's a good idea Talarus

[16:58] Oryx Tempel: Perfect example of a thread that should have been locked: http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=321832

[16:59] Trinity Coulter: maybe Linden Lab could have rndom Jury Duy

[16:59] Thunderclap Morgridge: to the first on

[16:59] Nika Talaj: The Lindens are the only ones who can lift a suspension or ban, therefore one must be able to appeal to them.

[16:59] Trinity Coulter: *random

[16:59] Talarus Luan: You ask your question or make your point, and once it turns into "just ignore this and let it die", you can close it.

[16:59] Blue Linden: ahhh, interesting Talarus....

[16:59] Wyn Galbraith: That's why Judge Judy would be fair

[16:59] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Yes, agreed

[16:59] Trinity Coulter: Jury Duty... eeek lag

[16:59] Blue Linden: let thread creator lock thread

[16:59] Thunderclap Morgridge: thats what lolcats are for

[16:59] HoneyBear Lilliehook: YES~!

[16:59] Gayathri Linden: kara, stress tests on what in particular?

[16:59] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Blue, definitely

[16:59] Wyn Galbraith: she doesn't understand technology

[16:59] Gayathri Linden: the new clearspace blogs, or on current forums?

[16:59] Talarus Luan: It's a feature in the latest vBulletin, though, so you will hate it, Blue. :P

[16:59] Blue Linden: i would assume that's not out of the question.....

[16:59] Blue Linden: ah really

[16:59] Oryx Tempel: Oh thread creator = ability to lock thread is great

[16:59] Wyn Galbraith: I think she does she says she doesn't

[16:59] Blue Linden: lol Talarus

[16:59] Blue Linden: actually it sounds okay to me

[16:59] HoneyBear Lilliehook: There have been a couple of instances where my threads got derailed badly and I just wanted them stopped

[17:00] Thunderclap Morgridge: why cant we use an updated vbulletin?

[17:00] Nikole Veeper: Hey Eeryone

[17:00] Blue Linden: *nods

[17:00] Techwolf Lupindo: Btw, is there any way to get the forums to display properlly on a wide screen monitor? The current narrow colume make it hard to read at times.

[17:00] Wyn Galbraith: Is that possible for the creator to lock their thread?

[17:00] HoneyBear Lilliehook: and there Thunder, is the burning question

[17:00] Kara Spengler: on the blog software, there was an earlier post about a stress test going on

[17:00] Amaranthim Talon: well- while i agree with tht- the lock thing- i can see the Undead Thread wd have died an early death

[17:00] Gordon Wendt: Alexa Linden knows more than she's announced so far but I gather with the KB2Wiki transfer some articles may be switching to a revision control system where kb article revisions would have to be vetted before changes were published, I gather that the power to do that and a few other housekeeping tasks are being considered being given to a small but expanding group of residents who help out on the wiki. I know Zai Lynch, and Strife Onizuka were at least asked for names that they'd recommend so I'm guessing they're names are on teh list

[17:00] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Blue, why CAN'T we stay with the existing forums, but upgraded?

[17:00] Oryx Tempel: hear hear Honey!

[17:00] HoneyBear Lilliehook: that is truly the preference among the regulars

[17:00] Amaranthim Talon: tht was mhy original quesiton when i arrived

[17:00] Amaranthim Talon: keep but update

[17:00] Kara Spengler: [of course, that could have just been a joke about the fact that the AC thread was probably going to get really big really fast]

[17:00] Blue Linden: Gordon, that sounds rumory to me @_@

[17:01] Malarthi Behemoth: The first part is true

[17:01] Talarus Luan: Because "that's not in our plans", HoneyBear. :-/

[17:01] Blue Linden: HoneyBear, I'm not sure when the decision was made....

[17:01] Malarthi Behemoth: Was at Torley's office hours thing this morning

[17:01] Malarthi Behemoth: There will be resi mods for the wiki

[17:01] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Blue, come on....decisions can be reversed *koff...homesteads*

[17:01] Oryx Tempel: Blue, can it be unmade?

[17:01] Marianne McCann: Gordon - sounds better than that "Apple buying LL" rumor I heard today

[17:01] Gordon Wendt: Malarthi, one sec and I'll give you the blog link and the wiki link where the convo asking for names took place

[17:01] Blue Linden: I think the idea had been to find a system with more control over the ability for LL to create requested features

[17:01] Malarthi Behemoth: But as best I can tell resi mods can't create other resi mods

[17:01] Ciaran Laval: The new software is rather buggy, I've had more firefox crashes with that than anything else

[17:01] Nikole Veeper: we

[17:01] Talarus Luan: ..and everyone knows, once LL makes their plans, nothing but nothing will change significantly. >.>

[17:01] HoneyBear Lilliehook: But we love the forums as they are :(

[17:01] Thunderclap Morgridge: apple buying ll would be good sort of

[17:02] Blue Linden: from what I can tell, clearspace allows for a lot more upgradability

[17:02] Thunderclap Morgridge agrees

[17:02] Blue Linden: I know HoneyBear.....

[17:02] ChatBrat Pippita: Whatever else you do, please limit the length of forum posts. I like informaton, not novels. :s

[17:02] Malarthi Behemoth: Gordon, I'm staying out of this one. I'm tossing ideas from the sidelines.

[17:02] HoneyBear Lilliehook: It just feels like so much is being taken from us, the residents

[17:02] Inara Pey: [17:01] Ciaran Laval: The new software is rather buggy, I've had more firefox crashes with that than anything else - ditto

[17:02] Amaranthim Talon: the sad thing is though we can move en masse

[17:02] Talarus Luan: Limiting post length is kinda silly.

[17:02] Thunderclap Morgridge: but so does vbulletin thats was slu uses

[17:02] Marianne McCann: Hey now, sometimes I gotta write a novel

[17:02] Amaranthim Talon: we wd lose the influx of new blood

[17:02] Nika Talaj: There is a Jira for the bugs wrt Firefox and the current blog

[17:02] Amaranthim Talon: and most of the residents of the fourms

[17:02] Amaranthim Talon: do not feel welcome at slu anyway

[17:02] Malarthi Behemoth: Limit to 3 characters, please.

[17:02] Blue Linden: i would like to think that LL isn't going to do anything to reduce the fuction of the forums.....but moving always sucks

[17:02] Talarus Luan: Well, beyond a certain limit, it gets to be a technical issue.

[17:02] Soen Eber: well there are a lot of tested forum platforms that allow flexibility, why go with something that's untested?

[17:02] Ciaran Laval: I can't stand the Jira

[17:02] Malarthi Behemoth: Every post can consist of "LOL"

[17:02] Marianne McCann: Mal

[17:02] Marianne McCann: aol

[17:02] Gordon Wendt: Blog post: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/support/blog/2009/05/26/announcing-the-knowledge-base-wiki-pilot

[17:02] Wyn Galbraith: 140

[17:02] Marianne McCann: aok*

[17:03] Gordon Wendt: Recommendations for wiki superusers thread

[17:03] Gordon Wendt: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Zai_Lynch/Talkpage_Archive_03#Recommendations_for_wiki_superusers

[17:03] Gayathri Linden: Nika, apparently having various firefox extensions running will cause it to crash.

[17:03] Gordon Wendt: I was wrong btw, it was torley not alexa

[17:03] Thunderclap Morgridge: ie the calab hates everyone

[17:03] Wyn Galbraith: I've beenpracticing the art of 140 character messages ;P

[17:03] HoneyBear Lilliehook: so much change Blue, and it just doesn't feel good for us

[17:03] Kara Spengler: I can't reply at all with opera on the new blog

[17:03] Gordon Wendt: don't know how I got those mixed up

[17:03] Gayathri Linden: but Ihavent gotten a list of WHAT extensions from Jive

[17:03] Blue Linden: nika, do you have that Jira number

[17:03] Rinoa Rives: I like change ^ ^

[17:03] Talarus Luan: Uhh.. Blue.. going from vBulletin to Clearspace or whatever that blog discussion thing is most DEFINITELY "loss of functionality".

[17:03] HoneyBear Lilliehook: Rinoa, how much time do you spend in the forum? ㋡

[17:03] Rinoa Rives: just depends on the change

[17:03] Malarthi Behemoth: I've got the links in my log Gordon, can I get back to you?

[17:03] Thunderclap Morgridge believes rinoa is insane, no one likes change

[17:03] Gordon Wendt: Malarthi, np

[17:03] Malarthi Behemoth: Thunderclap, only thing that's constant.

[17:03] Wyn Galbraith: Change is good.

[17:03] Blue Linden: hehe, Second Life is always changing, which definitely can make you nervous....

[17:04] Blue Linden: it's a very dynamic system

[17:04] Rinoa Rives: no much on SL's forum.. but I do use a lot of forums

[17:04] HoneyBear Lilliehook: A large number of the people here today use the forums on a very consistent, daily basis

[17:04] Thunderclap Morgridge: especially pennies nickles and dimes

[17:04] HoneyBear Lilliehook: we moderate ourselves

[17:04] Blue Linden: but the very important things that meant so much to me when i started 6 years ago as a resident have not changed

[17:04] HoneyBear Lilliehook: we help others

[17:04] Gordon Wendt: the wiki link is Torley asking Zai for names and Strife adding in as well, the blog link is teh announcement and keeps being updated as things move

[17:04] Wyn Galbraith: Yea if don't like our neighbor just wait a few months... it all changes

[17:04] Blue Linden: SL residents HELP EACH OTHER

[17:04] Nika Talaj: JIRA: WEB-982 i believe

[17:04] Blue Linden: they are PASSIONATE

[17:04] Blue Linden: they are insanely CREATIVE

[17:04] Blue Linden: and they're often super silly

[17:04] Jira Issue Finder [WEB-982]: Problems for blogs.secondlife.com

[17:04] Jira Issue Finder [WEB-982]: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:53:56 -0800 (PST)

[17:04] Jira Issue Finder [WEB-982]: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-982

[17:04] Jira Issue Finder [WEB-982]: The blog hung after posting, twice. Firefox/Mac. Just get a blank page back with "Done" in the status line. I think the fancy Javascript is probably responsible. It looks nifty to have turn right into a smiley, and so on, but it doesn't really provide significant benefits. Simplify simplify simplify. Additional problems: the frame vanished from around the comments, had to force reload to get it back. More appended in comments.

[17:04] Rinoa Rives: hehe

[17:04] HoneyBear Lilliehook: yes, this is true, but putting us into that format, doesn't look helpful

[17:04] Thunderclap Morgridge: except every few years LL tris to kill the forum

[17:04] Marianne McCann: They like PIE

[17:04] Wyn Galbraith: I love you Blue

[17:04] HoneyBear Lilliehook: and will make us less passionate

[17:04] Blue Linden: none of that has changed one bit

[17:05] Gordon Wendt: Blue, have you been blogging your travels for all 6 years?

[17:05] Wyn Galbraith: But the Cake is a Lie!

[17:05] Talarus Luan: Yeah, but a lot of that is going away with the adult content policy. People can't get to the gulag to help one another.

[17:05] Gayathri Linden: I can say for certain, the cake is NOT a lie.

[17:05] Blue Linden: great, thank you for Jira link

[17:05] Thunderclap Morgridge: wyn I have a shirt that says that

[17:05] Chris Norse: Blue the changes are why we are looking at the negative here not positives

[17:05] Oryx Tempel: oh sod off with adult content... this is about the forums

[17:05] Trinity Coulter: yw

[17:05] Blue Linden: no Gordon I haven't

[17:05] Gayathri Linden: in fact, I had cake today. :)

[17:05] Soen Eber: Well, the Lindens haven't always tried to kill the forums, sometimes they just hope they'll die on their own...

[17:05] Nika Talaj makes a note to walk down the street to Jive and get them to move on their Firefox issues.

[17:05] Gordon Wendt: Blue, if you missed them I dropped in the blog and wiki links above

[17:05] Wyn Galbraith: LOL

[17:05] Talarus Luan: Then Blue shouldn't segue, Oryx. :P

[17:05] Gordon Wendt: although you may want to wait to check them later

[17:05] Marianne McCann: But Oryx? It's the quest way to a Godwin ever!

[17:05] Blue Linden: thanks very much Gordon :)

[17:06] Thunderclap Morgridge: maybe your cake but THE cake is always a lie thats rule 22

[17:06] Oryx Tempel whips off her pants and waves them in salute

[17:06] HoneyBear Lilliehook: that's gonna get you sent to the adult continent Oryx

[17:06] Wyn Galbraith: Add 1 to 22 = 23

[17:06] Oryx Tempel: (that was a Forum joke)

[17:06] Rinoa Rives: anyway when it comes to upgrades I would still want to see more linkage to the SL world ... forums just seem somewhere else when I'm here... they could so easily be intergrated into the profiles at least

[17:06] Nika Talaj: O.o! Forum joke! All the Lindens in the room, cover your eyes!

[17:06] Blue Linden: oh, by the way....have I mentioned that I LURVE my office hour?

[17:06] DancesWithRobots Soyer: But we have to keep trying till we run out of cake

[17:06] HoneyBear Lilliehook: I don't WANT my SL profile in the forums.....grrrrrr

[17:06] Blue Linden: thanks very much for coming you guys, it's always really interesting

[17:06] Malarthi Behemoth: Dances, at least the science gets done.

[17:07] Marianne McCann: Blue - don't lurve it too much, or the blue chair goes to Zindra

[17:07] Talarus Luan: Yeah

[17:07] Thunderclap Morgridge: make blonden the new commdirector

[17:07] Oryx Tempel: actually this is WAAAAY better than Blondin's. Poor Blondin.

[17:07] Blue Linden: hehe....well, i hadn't heard anyone hating on the idea before now HoneyBear....and we'll keep talking about options

[17:07] Wyn Galbraith ponders looking at HoneyBear's profile "Is it naughty?"

[17:07] Thunderclap Morgridge: hes hated already

[17:07] Gordon Wendt: either though a forum upgrade or someone who knows greasemonkey what I'd kill for is quick link parsing for JIRA issues in the forums

[17:07] DancesWithRobots Soyer: but the neat guns keep breaking

[17:07] Talarus Luan: I don't think you can redesignate Grasmere as "Adult"

[17:07] HoneyBear Lilliehook: pay me enough to stay home and I'll become commdirector

[17:07] Marianne McCann: NO, Thunderclap! He's been a boon to Bay City, an we dun wanna let him go!

[17:07] Blue Linden: lol Mari

[17:07] Nika Talaj: When will the new Forums be ready for beta, Blue?

[17:07] Thunderclap Morgridge: lol

[17:07] Oryx Tempel: And can we sign up?

[17:07] Malarthi Behemoth: Two Weeks (tm)

[17:07] Gayathri Linden: Can I get back to you with that? :)

[17:08] Amaranthim Talon: Blue - you should come hang out in the forums for awhile- get a good feel fo it

Only been reading them for 6 years now ;D -blue

[17:08] Gordon Wendt: Blue, have you been trying out the answers system at all yet?

[17:08] HoneyBear Lilliehook: "we're working on it"

[17:08] Amaranthim Talon: so u know what it is we are defending

[17:08] Gayathri Linden doesnt promise dates unless I know for sure.

[17:08] Talarus Luan: Meh. Blondin brought it on himself.

[17:08] Malarthi Behemoth: Two Weeks™

[17:08] Nika Talaj: Lol! Can't blame a girl for trying, Gaya!

[17:08] Soen Eber: Why not just go with an opensource forum technology and wait for the users tocontribute needed improvements?

[17:08] Marianne McCann: [RESOLVED][UPDATED]

[17:08] Blue Linden: Nika, we're kind of playing with the Discussion format now.....but we won't have any actual date for a bit I don't think

[17:08] Techwolf Lupindo: Do the forums have polls?

[17:08] Ciaran Laval: Keep working on it for a couple of years

[17:08] Blue Linden: what Gayathri said :D

[17:08] Blue Linden: lol Ciaran

[17:08] Oryx Tempel: Techwolf, yes

[17:08] Kara Spengler: Blue: this is a nice time for it .... as soon as I can make the mental leap to there finally being *two* Linden OH that are not during the east coast work day :)

[17:08] Thunderclap Morgridge: Ive seen polish people on it

[17:08] HoneyBear Lilliehook: o.O

[17:08] Blue Linden: haha Kara.....mine and Blondins?

[17:08] HoneyBear Lilliehook: <---polish

[17:09] Talarus Luan: yeah, I wish they didn't overlap

[17:09] Malarthi Behemoth is sad he's going to miss Blue's office hours starting in a couple weeks >.<

[17:09] Marianne McCann: Blondin needs a better time. Overlapping Michael and Bloo dun help me none

[17:09] Wyn Galbraith: POlish people are so shiney :D

[17:09] Gordon Wendt: the secondlife forums, a more wretched hive of scum and villany you will never find, we must be cautious

[17:09] Talarus Luan: Need to get Blondin to start a half hour earlier, or you start a half hour lter

[17:09] Nika Talaj works on her plot to contribute enough ideas to the Forum beta that they'll never launch.

[17:09] Talarus Luan: later

[17:09] Blue Linden: lol Gordon

[17:09] Doctor Gascoigne: hey!

[17:09] Doctor Gascoigne: Gordon tell us how you really feel LOL

[17:09] Blue Linden: take care Talarus

[17:09] Wyn Galbraith: LOL Talarus

[17:09] Thunderclap Morgridge: you need to make blionden have 2 hours

[17:09] Wyn Galbraith: or Nika

[17:09] HoneyBear Lilliehook: good work Nika lol

[17:09] Wyn Galbraith: got confsued

[17:09] Blue Linden: oops....nm

[17:09] Talarus Luan: That should have read *later

[17:09] Inara Pey: Thank you, Obi-Wan Wendt! ;)