User:CG Linden/2009-02-03

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Transcript of CG Linden's office hours:

[7:57] Lamorna Proctor: .. hello everyone
[7:57] Chaley May: ... hello Lamorna
[7:57] Cummere Mayo: .... hey lam
[7:58] Close Range: ..... Therese Quicksand [37m]
[7:58] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... morning cg
[7:59] CG Linden: . Hello folks
[7:59] Lamorna Proctor: .. Howdy CG
[7:59] Arawn Spitteler: ....... Good Mourning, CG
[7:59] Gellan Glenelg: ........ hi CG
[8:00] Chaley May: ... hi CG
[8:00] Lamorna Proctor: .. why are you mourning, Arawn?
[8:00] CG Linden: . what are you sad about doay, Arawn? :)
[8:00] Cummere Mayo: .... hello cg :)
[8:00] CG Linden: . Hi Cummere
[8:00] XLR8RRICK Hudson: ......... good morning
[8:01] Arawn Spitteler: ....... Bad news is enlightening, and even its absense may be mourned.
[8:01] Cummere Mayo: .... o.O
[8:01] Cummere Mayo officially nominates arawn for most emo of the group
[8:01] Cummere Mayo: .... :P
[8:01] Nidol Slazar: .......... rofl
[8:02] Arawn Spitteler: ....... In Grendels, I found it laggish to alt focus, and am told that place has a lot of sim lag. Is sim lag going to impair our cameras?
[8:02] CG Linden: . almost ready...
[8:02] Close Range: ..... Aric Linden [34m]
[8:02] Slide Presentation Screen v6.3: Recounting the slides.
[8:02] Slide Presentation Screen v6.3: I count 9 slides in my inventory (so far).
[8:03] CG Linden: . well, someone went back in time and recovered all of our concurrency data since the beginning of SL
[8:03] CG Linden: . and that's chart you see... eventually, someone will fix the moving average (orange) too
[8:04] CG Linden: . Howdy
[8:04] Nidol Slazar: .......... CG you look like my old grade 9 Science teacher. :o
[8:04] CG Linden: . the two spikes...
[8:04] Lamorna Proctor: .. coo
[8:04] CG Linden: . here
[8:04] CG Linden: . and here
[8:04] CG Linden: . where Xmas 2007 and 2008
[8:05] CG Linden: . RL does exist, there is the proof
[8:05] Chaley May: ... this is great
[8:05] Cummere Mayo: .... it does?
[8:05] Chaley May: ... now we can see how many people there was when we first started
[8:05] Arawn Spitteler: ....... They look like dips; didn't anyone get new graphics cards?
[8:05] Cummere Mayo: .... dangit someone needs to delete rl
[8:05] CG Linden: . talking about RL, this was last sunday
[8:05] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... realiity is for people who can't handle booze
[8:06] Imaze Rhiano: ............ heresy!
[8:06] CG Linden: . we peaked early, beating a new record
[8:06] CG Linden: . but then people went to watch superbowl
[8:06] CG Linden: . here's where the game ended
[8:07] CG Linden: . cute eh?
[8:07] Nidol Slazar: .......... kind of sad lol
[8:07] XLR8RRICK Hudson: ......... what was the number for max concurrency
[8:07] CG Linden: . 83358
[8:07] XLR8RRICK Hudson: ......... well thats awsome
[8:08] Chaley May: ... theres a good chance i was 3 of them :P
[8:08] Lamorna Proctor: .. and things held up OK?
[8:08] CG Linden: . yep
[8:08] CG Linden: . I showed this slide last time
[8:08] CG Linden: . a lot of midnight oil was burnt to achieve this
[8:08] Lamorna Proctor: .. there have been some asset server glitches the past 2 days
[8:09] Nidol Slazar: .......... huh so agni does use mysql :x
[8:09] CG Linden: . this chart shows the query speed
[8:09] CG Linden: . yeah, we use mysql
[8:09] CG Linden: . sadly
[8:09] CG Linden: . but anyway, a lot of work went into analysing the queries and redirecting and optimizing the vad ies
[8:09] CG Linden: . bad ones
[8:10] CG Linden: . blue line was the disaster weekend 2 weeks ago
[8:10] CG Linden: . green line last weekend
[8:10] Close Range: ..... Therese Quicksand [32m]
[8:10] CG Linden: . still more of this is going to be rolled out this week, with 1.25.5
[8:11] CG Linden: . so today we're going to upgrade our central services... there should be little impact
[8:11] Arawn Spitteler interprets "Should"
[8:11] CG Linden: . tomorrow we'll roll half, and thursday the rest
[8:12] Jessica Lyon: ............. < raises hand
[8:12] CG Linden: . yeah?
[8:12] XLR8RRICK Hudson: ......... what are the changes or fixes in it
[8:12] Jessica Lyon: ............. i read on the wiki today that 1.26 one of the bug fixes will be PosJump, is this correct?
[8:12] CG Linden: . I'll have to look up, do you have a jira?
[8:13] Jessica Lyon: ............. no, ironically i cant find a jira on it, which is why i'm curious about it
[8:13] Jessica Lyon: ............. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Talk:PosJump
[8:13] Close Range: ..... Alexa Linden [20m]
[8:13] CG Linden: . oh, this afternoon we'll do a pilot roll
[8:13] CG Linden shouts: Hi Alex
[8:13] Arawn Spitteler quietly waves to Alexa Linden
[8:13] Alexa Linden: .............. Hey all :D
[8:13] Jessica Lyon: ............. as it poses no threat.. it mearly allows an object get from a too b faster than warpPos
[8:13] Close Range: ..... Alexa Linden [29m]
[8:14] Arawn Spitteler doesn't know what threat an unlimited teleport might be, but still wants svc-2931 repaired.
[8:14] Jeffbot 2.3: ............... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-2931
[8:14] Imaze Rhiano: ............ that posJump is hack
[8:14] Close Range: ..... Dessie Linden [39m]
[8:15] Arawn Spitteler: ....... Hack is inovation.
[8:15] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... morning dessie
[8:15] Jessica Lyon: ............. it is a bit of hack.. however.. it is no threat and doesnt break anything.. however if it is patched, it will in fact break ALOT of legit content and make alot of people pissed off
[8:15] CG Linden: . I don't know if I want to get into that one today...
[8:15] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... hi, Dessie
[8:15] Dessie Linden: ................ hey everyone!
[8:15] CG Linden: . I recommend bringing that one up with Andrew
[8:16] CG Linden: . Hi Dessie!
[8:16] XLR8RRICK Hudson: ......... hello Dessie
[8:16] Jessica Lyon: ............. ya, was gonna do that later today at his office hour
[8:16] Jessica Lyon: ............. but thought i'd pop in here and see if you guys were aware of it
[8:16] Jessica Lyon: ............. ty CG
[8:16] CG Linden: . for TP purposes, I found that setting sit target is actually pretty nice... yeah, it's limited to 300m, but that's still a whole sim...
[8:16] Cummere Mayo: .... oh no its dessie ... run for cover....
[8:16] Cummere Mayo: .... err hello dessie
[8:17] CG Linden: . oh, you two met already? :)
[8:17] Jessica Lyon: ............. but not up on z
[8:17] Dessie Linden: ................ hey now... that was totally uncalled for! ;o)
[8:17] XLR8RRICK Hudson: ......... it falls short for skyboxes
[8:17] Jessica Lyon: ............. very short lol
[8:17] Arawn Spitteler: ....... 300 isn't high enough, in Spirit City, but it's better to use llSLPP, so we can sit first, and choose after.
[8:17] Cummere Mayo: .... im just teasing dessie :)
[8:17] Dessie Linden: ................ ya know, Cummere... the same might be said about you... LOL
[8:18] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... I've been on TP'ers that go more than 300m. never figured out how they managed that one.
[8:18] Cummere Mayo: .... oh it is *winks*
[8:18] Dessie Linden can take as good as she gets
[8:18] Jessica Lyon: ............. most of the oldschool ones use warPos
[8:18] Jessica Lyon: ............. however that is limited to 10meter jumps
[8:18] Imaze Rhiano: ............ you will use for over 300 warpPos or PosJump
[8:18] Dessie Linden: ................ Oops... give as good as she gets
[8:18] Dessie Linden: ................ DOH
[8:18] Cummere Mayo: .... i think andrew and jack have dartboards with my pic on them
[8:18] Jessica Lyon: ............. still fast, but PosJump can go from 21 on z to 4095 in a single sim frame
[8:19] Dessie Linden: ................ only 2 people? ;o)
[8:19] CG Linden: . I think I'll have just the right animation for you Cummere :)
[8:19] Imaze Rhiano: ............ with mono - you can do that with WarpPos too
[8:19] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... i see one of the inventory servers just went down
[8:19] XLR8RRICK Hudson: ......... Inventory Server is Unavailable
[8:19] CG Linden: . you might already have it... but I need to get it from a friend who isn;t online
[8:19] Cummere Mayo: .... lol im scared now cg
[8:19] CG Linden: . ok, back to the program
[8:19] Jessica Lyon: ............. true.. just be a shame to see posjump fixed
[8:19] XLR8RRICK Hudson: ......... is this due to the roll
[8:19] CG Linden: . there actually is one
[8:19] Jessica Lyon: ............. alot of content out there using it
[8:19] Dessie Linden: ................ is there a rule that residents can't bring weapons to office hours?
[8:20] Dessie Linden: ................ Cummere's packing
[8:20] Arawn Spitteler: ....... WarpPos is limited to 10 meters per set of list items, while PosJump is the present winner. I don't know what the liabilities of distance are, though.
[8:20] CG Linden: . you can bring then, and with a little bit of luck, you'll evn get to use then...
[8:20] CG Linden: . ... once
[8:20] CG Linden: . ok, I was going to talk about some of the stuff we're fixing in 1.25.5
[8:20] Dessie Linden: ................ yeah, but there'll be witlesses... um, I mean witnesses
[8:20] Cummere Mayo: .... ive never been told to take em off at any hour ive been to but ... *Shrugs* and takes them off
[8:21] Dessie Linden: ................ just teasing
[8:21] CG Linden: . I don't mind as long as yu don't use them
[8:21] Dessie Linden: ................ don't take me too seriously , Cummere... unless I'm talking releases, of course
[8:21] Cummere Mayo: .... ive only ever used em once at an office hour... and that was by request from the host of the hour
[8:21] CG Linden: . so.... my favorite is SVC-3738
[8:21] Jeffbot 2.3: ............... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-3738
[8:21] Ozzy Wozniak: ................. good morning
[8:22] CG Linden: . Hi Ozzy
[8:22] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... morning ozzy
[8:22] CG Linden: . so this was added to a fix to an exploit
[8:22] Arawn Spitteler: ....... Without Damage set, guns are just for show. A real weapon, is if you're able to employ Wit, preferably another's.
[8:22] CG Linden: . well, some weapons apply impulse to the opponent and bump him away - far away sometimes
[8:23] CG Linden: . but let's not go there :)
[8:23] Dessie Linden: ................ going down a weapons rathole! ;o)
[8:23] CG Linden: . so I was saying, Aura Linden spent probably 2-3 sleepless nights working to insert a fix for that one, so that you can still remote update attachments under certain conditions
[8:24] Dessie Linden: ................ by the way, Arawn... LOVE the av?
[8:24] Dessie Linden: ................ *!
[8:24] CG Linden: . so yeah, we break stuff, but we fix it, too....
[8:24] Cummere Mayo: .... mine currantly will only damage someone with a ccs or safezoen meter dont worrry as long as rp mode is set the orbiter is off. :P
[8:24] Cummere Mayo: .... and give aura a kiss for me cg
[8:25] CG Linden: . Ok, I will, but that may be dangerous :)
[8:26] Jessica Lyon: ............. ok.. must go, ty for your time CG
[8:26] CG Linden: . SVC-3709 is a feature request I'd like more input on...
[8:26] Jeffbot 2.3: ............... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-3709
[8:26] Cummere Mayo: .... speaking of fixes....... anything more being done to fix svc-2708?
[8:26] Jeffbot 2.3: ............... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-2708?
[8:26] Krupt Kiebach: .................. mew
[8:26] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... um.... gee.... should I provide input?
[8:26] Aargle Zymurgy laughs
[8:26] CG Linden: . you already did, thanks :)
[8:27] CG Linden is checking that other bug...
[8:27] Cummere Mayo: .... oh you sure you wnat my imput on that one cg?
[8:27] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... and, FWIW, I've mostly figured out a hack to get around it... a bit irritating initially for the customer, but I think I've got it.
[8:27] Cummere Mayo isnt sure she wants to earn another 3 hour vacation like last time she really let her feelings known in jira
[8:27] CG Linden: . so to answer the question about SCV-2708
[8:28] Lamorna Proctor: .. well, i think the main thing with SVC-3709 is that creators should have control over how their creations are used or resold
[8:28] Jeffbot 2.3: ............... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-3709
[8:28] CG Linden: . well, you know what, I recommend the following procedure
[8:28] CG Linden: . you write down your fealings into a jira comment but don't press submit
[8:28] CG Linden: . you put the window in the backgroudn and do other stuff
[8:29] CG Linden: . 4-5h later (or the next day), you go and edit what you wrote
[8:29] Gellan Glenelg: ........ I agree Lam...unlike the OP of MISC-2297 ! "...i own it. I should have the right to do as i please with it..."
[8:29] Jeffbot 2.3: ............... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/misc-2297
[8:29] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... I usually walk away for a bit before submitting and re-read.
[8:29] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... ok having an interesting problem here
[8:29] CG Linden: . then submit
[8:29] Jessica Lyon: ............. cake!! it's a lie!!
[8:29] CG Linden: . Hi there....
[8:29] Cake Linden: ................... <.<
[8:29] Cake Linden: ................... you see nothing
[8:29] CG Linden: . Lotsa Lindens here today, eeek :)
[8:29] Jessica Lyon: ............. lol, wuz bumped by Cake !
[8:29] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... CG having an interesting problem right now
[8:29] Cake Linden: ................... sorry Jessica! I'm driving blind
[8:30] Jessica Lyon: ............. it's all that iceing in your face lol
[8:30] Cummere Mayo: .... lol
[8:30] Cummere Mayo: .... hi cake
[8:30] CG Linden: . so, anyway, we now have much better data collection capabilities than in 1.24
[8:30] Lamorna Proctor: .. As I mentioned in the PJIRA, there are many RL situations where people sell a product that is no copy AND no transfer, an airline ticket for instance
[8:30] CG Linden: . so we'll be able to pionpoint better where the chockepoints are
[8:31] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... is anyone else having problems loading pages in the media browser?
[8:31] Cummere Mayo: .... ill comment on those two if reminded and if i can do so without throttling people >.>
[8:31] Arawn Spitteler wouldn't understand why No-Copy and No-Transfer would ever have been mutually exclusive.
[8:31] Lamorna Proctor: .. agree totally, Arawn
[8:31] Cummere Mayo: .... i never understood that either.
[8:32] CG Linden: . well, I'm sure Gordon Wendt will be happy to explain :)
[8:32] Arawn Spitteler: ....... A way of alpha testing our perms would be handy.
[8:32] Cummere Mayo: .... and it led two major disasters for some of my closest friends that relied on sl as their main or only income source arawn
[8:32] Cummere Mayo: .... *to not two
[8:32] CG Linden: . so, talking about permissions, i wanted to show something
[8:32] Lamorna Proctor: .. Yes, the clning is seriously damaging our businesses
[8:33] Lamorna Proctor: .. *cloning
[8:33] CG Linden: . it isn't an all cure, but it helps immensely when attempting to debug permssions
[8:33] CG Linden: . so in your viewer, you have the advanced menu
[8:33] Lamorna Proctor: .. why bother developing something if some low-life thief can just steal multiple copies of it?
[8:33] CG Linden: . I assume that all of you know how to get the advanced menu :)
[8:33] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... I have filed numerous DMCAs that I wouldn't have to had no-copy/no-trans been in effect. if you could see some of the IMs I'm getting today as a result of my protecting my rights, you'd be appalled how bad this all is.
[8:34] Lamorna Proctor: .. this is a major issue which affects the whole future of SL
[8:34] Cummere Mayo: .... one of my friends entire stores was cloned
[8:34] CG Linden: . so this is the thing you want to turn on
[8:34] Cummere Mayo: .... and LL needs to start enforcing dmca
[8:34] Aargle Zymurgy shuts up and watches CG's pretty pictures
[8:34] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... oh, Cummere... they DO. trust me on this one. :-)
[8:34] CG Linden: . you may want to chat with the removals team someday, Cummere :)
[8:34] CG Linden: . anyway...
[8:34] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... I'm gettting LOTS of hate IMs because of it.
[8:35] Cummere Mayo: .... i have cg
[8:35] Cummere Mayo shuts up now and listens
[8:35] CG Linden: . so with this on, whenever you look at at object properties, you will see...
[8:35] CG Linden: . expanded permissions
[8:35] CG Linden: . so, this also gives you a little insight on how permissions are actually implemented
[8:36] CG Linden: . so B is the Base permission
[8:36] Arawn Spitteler wonders what version of viewer?
[8:36] CG Linden: . this is the permissions your object came with
[8:36] CG Linden: . since 1.17 at least :)
[8:36] Gellan Glenelg: ........ Speaking of permissions: Are you aware of https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3435 CG? It seems that a large number of default AV parts have the slam bit set, which I suspect might be causing the reported problems
[8:36] CG Linden doesn't remember further back
[8:37] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... well the inventory server that went down is back up
[8:37] CG Linden: . yeah, the permissions of the library objects are suboptimal and I need to make another pass over them
[8:37] Arawn Spitteler: ....... Found iot closer to the top, thx
[8:37] CG Linden: . but changing the library fills me with fear
[8:37] Opensource Obscure: .................... great , Gellan, i wanted to point to SVC-3435 me too
[8:37] Jeffbot 2.3: ............... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-3435
[8:38] CG Linden: . thanks, duly noted... and I was wondering what I was going to do this week :) :)
[8:38] Cummere Mayo: .... i think that was intentional do to complaints from some of the donators of the start outfits
[8:38] Gellan Glenelg: ........ hehe
[8:38] CG Linden: . ok, so base pemrissions dictate the most permissive setting
[8:38] Opensource Obscure: .................... (this Debug Permissions tool doesn't appear to be documented on the wiki .. i'm still searching tho)
[8:39] CG Linden: . you cannot add any permissions anywhere beyond the base permissions
[8:39] CG Linden: . E is everyone
[8:39] CG Linden: . only move and copy are valid there
[8:39] CG Linden: . V = move (Velocity)
[8:39] CG Linden: . the others should be obvious,... M = Modify, C=Copy, T=Transfer
[8:40] CG Linden: . O is others
[8:40] Gellan Glenelg: ........ opensource: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4107
[8:40] CG Linden: . O=Owner I mean
[8:40] CG Linden: . (too much unix)
[8:40] CG Linden: . G is Group
[8:40] Opensource Obscure: .................... thanks again Gellan ;D
[8:40] CG Linden: . btw, I recommend you don't touch those unless you really know what you're doing - I don't think they behave very intuitively
[8:41] CG Linden: . deeding to group can be , say, interesting
[8:41] CG Linden: . I think Torley has a video on that
[8:41] CG Linden: . N is Next Owner
[8:41] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... yeah... I've never gotten any good use out of that
[8:41] CG Linden: . those ar ethe checkboxes
[8:41] Second Life: ..................... Your region will restart in 5 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.
[8:41] CG Linden: . eh!!
[8:41] XLR8RRICK Hudson: ......... bye bye
[8:41] Cummere Mayo: .... uh
[8:41] Imaze Rhiano: ............ ooooookay...
[8:41] Ozzy Wozniak: ................. cy
[8:41] CG Linden: . he was supposed to do this this afternoon i tjoiugh...
[8:41] Cummere Mayo: .... can you delay that?
[8:41] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... dang 5 min to region reboot
[8:41] Lamorna Proctor: .. server roll, CG?
[8:41] CG Linden: . no...
[8:42] Aargle Zymurgy looks for something to clone
[8:42] Arawn Spitteler has to potty anyway: It might be nice, or complicated, for creators to retain modification rights.
[8:42] CG Linden: . ok, let's try this.
[8:43] CG Linden: . well all get up and do a mass migration :)
[8:43] Ozzy Wozniak: ................. :)
[8:43] Cummere Mayo: .... where to?
[8:43] Aargle Zymurgy does the superman thing
[8:43] CG Linden: . we'll head south
[8:43] CG Linden: . so over my office, over the water
[8:43] Second Life: ..................... Your region will restart in 3 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.
[8:43] CG Linden: . on the beach on the other side
[8:43] Close Range: ..... Lamorna Proctor [22m], Gellan Glenelg [30m]
[8:43] Close Range: ..... Chaley May [21m], Cummere Mayo [21m]
[8:44] Close Range: ..... Ozzy Wozniak [25m]
[8:44] Entered Levenhall at 169, 219, 36
[8:44] Close Range: ..... Gellan Glenelg [22m], Aargle Zymurgy [29m]
[8:44] Close Range: ..... Cummere Mayo [32m]
[8:44] Close Range: ..... Lamorna Proctor [25m], Chaley May [38m]
[8:44] Close Range: ..... RoshiMo Jinn [21m], Cummere Mayo [23m], Gellan Glenelg [23m], Ozzy Wozniak [27m]
[8:44] Close Range: ..... Aargle Zymurgy [32m], WolfPup Lowenhar [39m]
[8:44] CG Linden shouts: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Levenhall/177/184/32
[8:44] Cummere Mayo: .... hey cg what youre showing us... can you ask torely to make it into a vid and send us all the link?
[8:45] Lamorna Proctor: .. half my hair has gone
[8:45] CG Linden: . He might have already done so... I should have looked
[8:45] CG Linden: . Lam, I see you fully haired
[8:45] CG Linden: . nice to see who was actually paying attention :)
[8:45] Imaze Rhiano: ............ ya - you are not bald
[8:45] Lamorna Proctor: .. ok
[8:46] Lamorna Proctor: .. i'm ok now
[8:46] Close Range: ..... Dessie Linden [24m]
[8:46] CG Linden: . fun being god :)
[8:46] Cummere Mayo: .... ok now we jsut all need our bathing suits
[8:46] CG Linden: . pluck, pluck, pluck :)
[8:46] Cummere Mayo: .... oh wiat levenhall is mature.... who is up for skineydipping?
[8:47] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... hmmm that interesting two av's merged
[8:47] CG Linden: . well, now I forgot to take my little presentor
[8:47] CG Linden: . well, so next owner permissions are the interesting part
[8:47] CG Linden: . they will become the base permissions of the object when you transfer it to someone else
[8:48] Cummere Mayo: .... /ao on
[8:48] Opensource Obscure: .................... sorry i was afk ... did i got 'force-teleported' here?
[8:48] CG Linden: . bye bye Longfellow, come back soon :)
[8:48] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... sorry, Arwan
[8:48] CG Linden: . yep :)
[8:48] CG Linden: . you;d have been logged out otherwise
[8:48] Opensource Obscure: .................... thanks!
[8:48] Opensource Obscure: .................... ...a 1st time for everything
[8:48] CG Linden: . so...
[8:49] CG Linden: . what makes things really complicated with permissions are containers
[8:49] CG Linden: . and link sets
[8:49] CG Linden: . and coalesced objects
[8:49] CG Linden: . so whenever you aggregate objects together, what happens?
[8:50] CG Linden: . And then there are two places, completly distinct places, where your objects can live
[8:50] CG Linden: . one is rezzed in a zim
[8:50] CG Linden: . sim
[8:50] CG Linden: . one is dormant in your inventory
[8:51] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... that is true whne h have thigs i have created i have to make shure every pice has the right permision
[8:51] CG Linden: . the best place to tweak permissions is when the object is rezzed in a sim
[8:52] CG Linden: . whenever an object is taken into inventory, a set of effective permissions, or "aggregate" permissions is computed for that object
[8:52] CG Linden: . that's because once an object is in inventory, there is no way to get at the content of the object
[8:52] Cummere Mayo: .... is that why soemthing can be one set of perms till you rez it then when it goes to inventory it changes to another?
[8:52] CG Linden: . well, "no way" as in "will take months and onths to code correctly"
[8:52] CG Linden: . yes
[8:53] Cummere Mayo feels slightly less stupid now :)
[8:53] Opensource Obscure: .................... so .. is this process right? 1. rez item - 2. set permission on item - 3. take item into Inventory - 4. rez a box - 5. set box permissions - 6. put the item into the box - 7. take the box
[8:53] CG Linden: . yes
[8:53] CG Linden: . that is the best way to ensure you actually get what you want
[8:54] CG Linden: . even though you can change permissions in inventory, I would only do it for objects that do not contain other objects
[8:54] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... but that's a big problem for us developers.....
[8:54] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... we have no way to make sure something gets rezzed... except to do very odd things.
[8:55] CG Linden: . yeah, we know, and I am sure that we'll eventually fix that... as i said, this is very gairy and messy code
[8:55] Aargle Zymurgy nods
[8:55] Lamorna Proctor: .. CG, what do you think about the technical feasibility of the proposal to create a unique key per rezzed no-copy item, which does not change every time it is taken back into inventory and re-rezzed
[8:55] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... I'd believe that (beenthere, done that)
[8:55] CG Linden: . for example, the tets plan for just the fix for the attachment upgrade (http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3738) has 12 separate cases to be tested
[8:56] CG Linden: . even though you can express the intent in one sentence:
[8:56] Second Life: ..................... Your region will restart in 5 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.
[8:56] Imaze Rhiano: ............ doh...
[8:56] Dessie Linden: ................ and here we go again!
[8:56] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... dang now this one getting rebooted
[8:56] Lamorna Proctor: .. back to the Batcave?
[8:56] CG Linden: . don;t allow uploads into an object with more permissive permissions than the script permissions
[8:56] Aargle Zymurgy puts on his walking shoes
[8:56] CG Linden: . sigh
[8:56] Dessie Linden: ................ back to levenhall?
[8:56] CG Linden: . batcave isn't back up yet
[8:56] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... well, meeting is over in 4 minutes. :-)
[8:56] CG Linden: . well,. see that pink platform?
[8:57] CG Linden: . that's actually torley's office
[8:57] CG Linden: . let's go over there
[8:57] Close Range: ..... WolfPup Lowenhar [37m]
[8:57] Close Range: ..... Aargle Zymurgy [29m], Ellla McMahon [29m], Ozzy Wozniak [29m], Cummere Mayo [30m], Imaze Rhiano [30m], Dessie Linden [31m], Opensource Obscure [31m], Arawn Spitteler [32m]
[8:57] Close Range: ..... Gellan Glenelg [27m], Lamorna Proctor [28m]
[8:57] Entered Beaumont at 20, 211, 56
[8:57] Close Range: ..... WolfPup Lowenhar [31m]
[8:57] Close Range: ..... Lamorna Proctor [37m]
[8:57] Close Range: ..... Imaze Rhiano [23m]
[8:57] Close Range: ..... Dessie Linden [28m]
[8:57] CG Linden: . field trip :)
[8:57] Gellan Glenelg: ........ s/torley/meta/ surely?
[8:58] WolfPup Lowenhar shouts: small problem here
[8:58] CG Linden: . you're right
[8:58] CG Linden: . oops
[8:58] Dessie Linden: ................ hey imaze... did I accidentally bump you?
[8:58] CG Linden: . yeah, torley would be green and loght pink :)
[8:58] Close Range: ..... Opensource Obscure [28m]
[8:58] Dessie Linden: ................ if so... sorry!
[8:58] Imaze Rhiano: ............ nope...
[8:59] Gellan Glenelg: ........ wow - graph showning max ever concurrency of 51k
[8:59] Opensource Obscure: .................... peripatetic office hours!
[8:59] Cummere Mayo: .... gah sim didnt wnat to let me out
[8:59] WolfPup Lowenhar shouts: could some one tp me pleasre im stuck inside one ofr the prims of the building
[9:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... Thank Youuuuuu!! for the tip
[9:00] CG Linden: . I fear I'm gonna lose Ellla
[9:00] Ozzy Wozniak: ................. thank you CG :) good to see you all, good bye
[9:00] Cummere Mayo: .... lol so is this a code deploy or just a reset of linden village?
[9:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... woops one of my hosting gesturs :)
[9:00] CG Linden: . no, this is the pilot roll
[9:01] CG Linden: . The release plan said this afternoon, but I guess Prospero decided it was too close to peak.
[9:01] Dessie Linden: ................ gotta go, everyone... Take care!
[9:01] Gellan Glenelg: ........ cya dessie
[9:01] CG Linden: . ok, see you Dessie
[9:01] Cummere Mayo nods "if you have an incling this might happen again, let me know a head of time, i can set up seating at my home
[9:01] CG Linden: . heh
[9:02] CG Linden: . ok, any questions from the survivors?
[9:02] CG Linden: . oh, one interesting thing
[9:02] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... actualy i have just notice a problem
[9:02] Opensource Obscure: .................... um no. this was another interesting and useful meeting tho
[9:02] Lamorna Proctor: .. yes, i wondered about your thoughts on my proposal for a unique persistent object key for no-copy objects?
[9:02] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... seems I've got a good arena, too.
[9:02] CG Linden: . the permissions you see in a rezzed object are always the permissions of the object itself
[9:03] CG Linden: . well, it's one of those "It's a good idea. but" things
[9:03] Cummere Mayo: .... so will this trick work somehow for textures and claothing as well to make them no c/ no xfer?
[9:04] CG Linden: . arguably, we should provide a hashed / obfuscated asset uuid for every object
[9:04] Lamorna Proctor: .. we really need some way technically to stop the cloning
[9:04] CG Linden: . for no-copy objects, this will always stay the same
[9:04] Lamorna Proctor: .. yes
[9:04] CG Linden: . but this will take some work to implement
[9:05] Lamorna Proctor: .. and the object should be able to get that UUID in script, so it can register it with an external server
[9:05] Gellan Glenelg: ........ levenhall's back - but longfellow seems stuck
[9:05] Lamorna Proctor: .. I do feel this is something that should be given priority
[9:05] CG Linden: . I did hava an idea how you could do this yourself, it's not 100%, but it woukd be really hard to catch
[9:05] Lamorna Proctor: .. major creators like Aargle are hurting badly
[9:06] CG Linden: . essentisally, you use something like a cookie...
[9:06] Lamorna Proctor: .. i had an idea, but containers defeat it
[9:06] CG Linden: . which you put into the description of some object
[9:06] CG Linden: . some child prim
[9:06] Lamorna Proctor: .. yes
[9:06] CG Linden: . well, you can't prevent copying, but you can make the copies unusable
[9:07] Lamorna Proctor: .. but, to do that, you need to make each object unique BEFORE it is transferred to the customer
[9:07] Cummere Mayo sighs since it seems none of this would work on clothing stuff
[9:07] Lamorna Proctor: .. otherwise, an unscupulous customer can rez it in a no-script parcel
[9:07] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... yes... scripted only, Cummere
[9:07] Lamorna Proctor: .. and see the ground-zero attributes
[9:07] CG Linden: . well, clothing just runs into the fundamental problem of "if you can see it, you can copy it"
[9:07] Lamorna Proctor: .. or, they can drop it into a box
[9:08] Lamorna Proctor: .. in a box, its script don't run
[9:08] CG Linden: . yes
[9:08] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... i had seen in one of the jira about that issue you could make a script that was no mod/cop that had a code in it that acted like a copy protection system
[9:08] CG Linden: . well, people are already doing that....
[9:08] Lamorna Proctor: .. so, the only way i can think of doing it at present is to create a stock of no-copy objects and load them into a warehouse object
[9:08] CG Linden: . yeah
[9:09] Lamorna Proctor: .. which is a real pain in the A*S
[9:09] CG Linden: . remember the starfruit people (I think that's what they are called) - they sold inworld flowers that could be exchanged by the recipient for real flowers
[9:09] Chaley May: ... I wish clothing was controllable with scripts
[9:09] Imaze Rhiano: ............ scripts are not good way to protect your items - there is coming memory limits for scripts and any extra sript is going to be bad then (because they are using avatars/parcels memory)
[9:09] Lamorna Proctor: .. another technique would be if llSetSale is implemented
[9:09] CG Linden: . they had to have a shop keeper generate new flowers :)
[9:10] Lamorna Proctor: .. llSetSale would allow an object to set itself for sale or not
[9:10] Lamorna Proctor: .. what price, and whether sell copy or original
[9:10] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... or llGiveSelf
[9:10] Lamorna Proctor: .. and, even better, llSetSale to someone specific
[9:10] Lamorna Proctor: .. like land sales
[9:11] Arawn Spitteler recalls that as a good idea but, and the but was large: A vendor Creator could buy a place at a mall, dishonestly, that way, but that's why we have AR system
[9:11] Lamorna Proctor: .. i don't understand the problem...
[9:11] Lamorna Proctor: .. what's the possible exploit?
[9:12] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... I'm not sure I get it either, Arawn
[9:12] CG Linden: . well you could build a factory that rezzes your objects and they each obtain a unique key
[9:12] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... exactly, CG. and attempts to use it twice get flagged VERY quickly
[9:12] CG Linden: . and that's how you sell the stuff.
[9:12] Arawn Spitteler: ....... The Eexploit I remember, is that a creator could sell a vendor to another, then have it coded, to sell itself to the creator.
[9:12] Cummere Mayo: .... i think hes saying for example that if you had soemthing like that (not that they would do it) the apex vender creader for example could give himself any spot in any mall that used his system
[9:12] Lamorna Proctor: .. yes, and then Aargle's suggestion of a llGiveSelf function, so an object can give itself to someone else
[9:13] CG Linden: . people just buy the rezzed object
[9:13] CG Linden: . don't need it
[9:13] Lamorna Proctor: .. so, we have a warehouse with a load of no-copy objects, that people can go along and "i'll buy THAT one"
[9:14] CG Linden: . yes
[9:14] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... the challenge comes in giving discounts with multiple purchases... and prim numbers, etc.
[9:14] CG Linden: . well, you can to a rebade program :)
[9:14] CG Linden: . rebate
[9:14] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... ugh... that would be manual.
[9:14] Cummere Mayo shrugs "im probably giving up my store anyway. sl shut down onrez and bought up xstreet. only a mater of time before they go after apez and hippo
[9:15] hayd Adder: ...................... my daddy
[9:15] CG Linden: . not really, since you know how many objects people own, you can say "I guve arebate if the first rez of the games happens within 10 minutes
[9:15] Lamorna Proctor: .. hmmm, that factory idea might work, but it's not ideal
[9:15] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... i actualy found a nice friebie server based open source vending system that im starting to use
[9:15] CG Linden: . I think there are creative ways to get it to work...
[9:16] CG Linden: . the trouble is that it's actually a lot harder to make a single persistent id work
[9:16] Lamorna Proctor: .. how about llGiveSelf, CG?
[9:16] Cummere Mayo: .... cg im gonna have to bug out thanks for the info, and if torely has ro makes a vid on this please send me the link
[9:16] CG Linden: . because it turns out that all iworld instances of a no copy object refer to the same asset
[9:16] CG Linden: . ok, see yu
[9:16] Cummere Mayo waves and poofs
[9:17] CG Linden: . I don't understand how llGiveSelf is any different from the buyer coming and acquiring the object
[9:17] Aargle Zymurgy nods
[9:17] Lamorna Proctor: .. it's not, it just automates it
[9:17] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... because someone standing nearby can't grab it
[9:17] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... if I rezzed an object for sale to a person at a discount, someone can grief and take it.
[9:18] Lamorna Proctor: .. we can detect that, so it's no good to the thief, but it leaves an unhappy honest customer
[9:18] CG Linden: . I think that's going to be a hard case to make...
[9:18] Lamorna Proctor: .. but CG, you see how important this issue is to the whole idea of Resident Intellectual Property?
[9:19] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... I can think of other uses thane that particular protection......
[9:19] Lamorna Proctor: .. RIP, IP LOL
[9:19] CG Linden: . sure, but it;'s not our job to design business processes....
[9:19] Arawn Spitteler: ....... Is htere a Resident Intellectual Property Forum Thread?
[9:19] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... say a HUD that can be rezzed, automatially configured, then deeded to the person needing to wear it.
[9:19] Lamorna Proctor: .. no, but LL's policy is to encourage residents to generate their own IP
[9:19] Arawn Spitteler: ....... Intellectual Property is the pagan trad from which we get History.
[9:19] Opensource Obscure: .................... i'm leaving, thanks all. ciao !
[9:19] CG Linden: . well, you could implement this alrady actually
[9:19] Lamorna Proctor: .. by Open
[9:20] CG Linden: . your factory could produce a number of objects initialized and "reserved" for someone
[9:20] Lamorna Proctor: .. yeah...
[9:20] CG Linden: . if someone else rezzes it, it just llDies
[9:20] CG Linden: . so yeah, if someone wants to spend L$ to disrupt the process...
[9:20] Lamorna Proctor: .. yes, I agree, but it's vulnerable to griefing
[9:20] Gellan Glenelg: ........ llDie doesn't stop people wearing things tho :(
[9:20] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... yes, CG... sorta what I'm thinking currently
[9:21] Chaley May: ... i think the object should have a script inside which communicates back to the creaters server and tells them to send a copy to the new owner and kills self
[9:21] CG Linden: . well, clothjing is hard
[9:21] Chaley May: ... unless i am thinking of something different
[9:21] CG Linden: . althoug kis cloting these days has prims and is scripted
[9:21] CG Linden: . most
[9:21] CG Linden: . typonese
[9:21] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... first day with the new fingers, CG?
[9:21] Gellan Glenelg: ........ I mean objects: I've used llDie to "destroy" objects that people shouldn't have... but they can get round it by wearing
[9:21] Lamorna Proctor: .. you mean llDie doesn't work on attchements???
[9:22] Gellan Glenelg: ........ correct
[9:22] Arawn Spitteler: ....... llTargetOmega?
[9:22] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... you can "llDie" attachments, can't you?
[9:22] Lamorna Proctor: .. i confess I've never tried it
[9:22] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[9:22] CG Linden: . easy enough to try
[9:22] Gellan Glenelg: ........ nope: llDie on attachment does NOTHING
[9:22] Lamorna Proctor: .. aargle is
[9:22] Chaley May: ... can you make attachments drop to the ground in a script?
[9:22] Arawn Spitteler: ....... Attachments could be detached, on attaching.
[9:22] CG Linden: . wll, arguably, that's a bug... but I can see why it is the way it is
[9:22] Imaze Rhiano: ............ attaching/detaching requires permissions
[9:23] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... CGthe sim your office is on just came back up
[9:23] Imaze Rhiano: ............ you could just turn attachment to yellow cube
[9:23] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... well, whatcha know... you're right
[9:24] Imaze Rhiano: ............ right... I am heading to AW grouppie meeting - bye! and thanks for tour around islands :)
[9:24] Arawn Spitteler: ....... It took this long?
[9:24] CG Linden: . http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=llDetachFromAvatar
[9:24] CG Linden: . ok, I got to go too, thanks for the meeting...
[9:24] Gellan Glenelg: ........ yeah CG: "Requires PERMISSION_ATTACH"
[9:24] CG Linden: . thanks for coming to the meeting...
[9:24] Gellan Glenelg: ........ thanks CG
[9:24] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... ? Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ? CG for having us here
[9:24] CG Linden: . and doesn;t solve the problem anyway, since it's all in inventory
[9:24] Arawn Spitteler's glad CG could stay so long.
[9:25] CG Linden: . and that's what the problem is
[9:25] CG Linden: . well, I'm actually late...
[9:25] CG Linden: . so ciao...
[9:25] Lamorna Proctor: .. ok bye CG
[9:25] Lamorna Proctor: .. thanks
[9:25] CG Linden remembers to sabe chat
[9:25] Chaley May: ... bye
[9:25] Aargle Zymurgy: ........... bye... and thanks again CG
[9:25] WolfPup Lowenhar: ...... tc cg
[9:25] CG Linden: . save
[9:25] Arawn Spitteler: ....... llSetBuoyancy(1.5);
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