User:Enus Linden/Office Hours/2008 October 31

• [9:23] Infinity Linden: "Armless bandit... Empty your bladder of that bitter black urine men call coffee! It has its price and its price has been paid! Java devil, you are now my bitch. "
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• [9:25] Infinity Linden: yay
• [9:25] Infinity Linden: i've been able to successfully sit on one of these things
• [9:26] Saijanai Kuhn: grats. They're a pain to give items though. The bounding box is generally taller than the avie
• [9:29] Infinity Linden: yup.. that's why i try to stay away from them
• [9:31] Enus Linden: Hi hi!
• [9:31] Saijanai Kuhn: hey all Crawling One
• [9:31] Saijanai Kuhn: O* Crawling One
• [9:32] Infinity Linden: hola
• [9:32] Saijanai Kuhn: So I guess not many interested in this yet
• [9:33] Saijanai Kuhn: folks like to argue, but not do I suppose
• [9:33] Enus Linden: put it in the context of AWG mtg/zero OH and you'll have plenty of folks at it sai
• [9:33] Enus Linden: but, i
• [9:33] Enus Linden: m curious to hear thoughts
• [9:33] Enus Linden: i know whump is incoming
• [9:34] Enus Linden: at some point
• [9:34] Infinity Linden: whump's monkeying
• [9:34] Infinity Linden: so he might be late
• [9:34] Enus Linden: oh boy
• [9:34] Enus Linden: hope monkeying is not too burdernsome for him :)
• [9:35] Infinity Linden: yeah.. i'm gm'ing this week
• [9:35] Saijanai Kuhn: yeah, he was doing O H and moneying yesterday. Fun
• [9:35] Infinity Linden: and we were up 'til 1ish last night trying to figure out what was wrong with PJIRA and the WIKI
• [9:35] Enus Linden: wheee
• [9:35] Infinity Linden: yup
• [9:36] Kerry Giha: It seems to be working now.
• [9:36] Squirrel Wood: h4x0r1n6?
• [9:36] Kerry Giha: At least for me anyway.
• [9:36] Infinity Linden: gm'ing during the week of halloween and the election? what the heck was i thinking?
• [9:36] Lalinda Lovell: hi
• [9:36] Squirrel Wood: o'Drama or McPain?
• [9:36] Enus Linden: but you'll be off the hook for a while now yay!
• [9:36] Infinity Linden: lol
• [9:36] Enus Linden: hi squirrel
• [9:36] Saijanai Kuhn: I like the JibJab movie about them
• [9:36] Enus Linden: hey lalinda
• [9:36] Enus Linden: Hi everybody
• [9:36] Enus Linden: sai's magic seems to be working now
• [9:37] Infinity Linden: yup. it would seriously bite to GM over the holiday break
• [9:37] Saijanai Kuhn: with a nice suggestion from a certain mutant
• [9:37] Lalinda Lovell: i hope silly people havent been complaining about openspace sims too much
• [9:37] Saijanai Kuhn: not here
• [9:37] Infinity Linden: lol
• [9:37] Lalinda Lovell: i get spammed all the time with groups for it and whatnot
• [9:37] Kerry Giha: You didn't see CG place this morning then.
• [9:37] Infinity Linden: me too
• [9:37] Enus Linden: so sai/infinity, shall we get into caps and AD functionality?
• [9:38] Infinity Linden: sure
• [9:38] Saijanai Kuhn: sounds good
• [9:38] Infinity Linden: caps. we love 'em
• [9:38] Enus Linden: is glad Tao isnt here to respond to that
• [9:38] Squirrel Wood: Will there be a nut capability? :p
• [9:38] Saijanai Kuhn: but there's no generic cap for generic I/O
• [9:38] Infinity Linden: there's a reason for that
• [9:38] Saijanai Kuhn: thers's an incumping cap from the sims but nothing for the AD client
• [9:39] Enus Linden: so explain this notion some more?
• [9:39] Infinity Linden: we're hoping the system will expose an interface for "higher level" functionality
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• [9:39] Infinity Linden: you mean like a cap for generic messaging to the ad?
• [9:39] Saijanai Kuhn: a servicerequest or whatever?
• [9:39] Infinity Linden: or specificly IM
• [9:40] Saijanai Kuhn: well, specifically IM, but there's no design pattern handy to work with, even to roll our own in our own ADs like Tao's python script
• [9:40] Enus Linden: well, we can discuss the generic idea in the specific context of IM if it helps
• [9:40] Infinity Linden: yeah... let's talk about IM first
• [9:41] Infinity Linden: then try to expand the concept
• [9:41] Enus Linden: k
• [9:41] Infinity Linden: and really
• [9:41] Infinity Linden: we should probably be talking about "service interfaces"
• [9:41] Saijanai Kuhn: right
• [9:41] Infinity Linden: 'cause we ocassionally publish protocol endpoints that are
• [9:41] Infinity Linden: not behind a cap
• [9:41] Infinity Linden: but for IM
• [9:42] Infinity Linden: er... group IM
• [9:42] Saijanai Kuhn: which IS personal IM right now in the main grid
• [9:42] Infinity Linden: i was thinking we would expose a group search cap
• [9:42] Infinity Linden: of the seed cap
• [9:42] Infinity Linden: yse that cap to find the cap for the particular group you're interested
• [9:43] Infinity Linden: then get a IM chatting cap
• [9:43] Infinity Linden: or a chat send and a chat recieve cap
• [9:43] Infinity Linden: where the chat receive cap would be radically similar to an event queue
• [9:43] Saijanai Kuhn: right. ts teh outgoig pipe that is ill-defined right now, I think
• [9:44] Infinity Linden: okies
• [9:44] Infinity Linden: so i think there's a discussion in OGP land about making one generic event queue for all messages
• [9:44] Saijanai Kuhn: except textures
• [9:44] Saijanai Kuhn: I think
• [9:44] Infinity Linden: vs. the idea of having multiple event queues, one for each function
• [9:45] Enus Linden: so imo, movin these features from the sims to the AD is kinda tacit, right? we plan to move these features to the AD, and this is the natural way to go about it. are there alternatives, or are we more or less formalizing what is otherwise presumed?
• [9:45] Infinity Linden: and krunk... the generator just kicked on at my house
• [9:45] Infinity Linden: so who knows how long i'll be here
• [9:45] Enus Linden: does that mean power dropped infinity?
• [9:45] Infinity Linden: yup
• [9:45] Infinity Linden: but
• [9:46] Infinity Linden: dsl's still up
• [9:46] Infinity Linden: that's cool
• [9:46] Enus Linden: i know you are having weather right now :)
• [9:46] Infinity Linden: yup. it's going to be a wet halloween
• [9:46] Infinity Linden: but
• [9:46] Kerry Giha: wow sounds serious.
• [9:46] Infinity Linden: @enus... yup
• [9:46] Infinity Linden: there's general agreement that most (if not all) Im should move to the AD
• [9:46] Enus Linden: yes
• [9:47] Infinity Linden: i think it's spacial chat where there's some disagreement
• [9:47] Infinity Linden: not group im
• [9:47] Infinity Linden: so
• [9:47] Enus Linden: special being?
• [9:47] Infinity Linden: maybe we could ignore it for the moment
• [9:47] Infinity Linden: spatial
• [9:47] Enus Linden: puts on his glasses
• [9:47] Infinity Linden: blergh... can't spell in the morning
• [9:47] Saijanai Kuhn: that's via the sim anyway so...
• [9:47] Enus Linden: spatial could stay on the sim, right.
• [9:47] Infinity Linden: right
• [9:48] Infinity Linden: there's a proposal that spatial follow the same pattern at teleport
• [9:48] Lalinda Lovell: gave you Happy Halloween 2008 Linden Goody Bag!.
• [9:48] Infinity Linden: where you get the AD talking to the sim on the viewer's behalf
• [9:48] Infinity Linden: but i don't know that it's been dissected enough for intelligent commentary
• [9:49] Infinity Linden: also... i've been hard at work, going through each and every message in the system
• [9:49] Enus Linden: ok, so ignoring that, what are we trying to solve wrt group IM for example?
• [9:49] Enus Linden: (yay infinity!)
• [9:49] Infinity Linden: right... group IM
• [9:49] Infinity Linden: and what i've found about IM would shock most code anthropologists
• [9:49] Lalinda Lovell: do tell
• [9:50] Infinity Linden: the cool thing is... the development of our IM system is apparent if you dig deep enough in the open viewer source base
• [9:50] Saijanai Kuhn: contemplates teh mess that is IIM and wonders what stands behind it
• [9:50] Infinity Linden: well... we don't talk too much about that
• [9:50] Infinity Linden: however... the good news is that the more recent IM
• [9:51] Infinity Linden: implementation is well suited for us to simply slather a layer of OGP on top of
• [9:51] Enus Linden: porting messages to the AD is a great chance to standardize and implement a nice clean architecture that *gasp* scales
• [9:51] Infinity Linden: yeah... that would be nice
• [9:51] Saijanai Kuhn: at this point, I'm more interested in *something* rather than something *great*\
• [9:51] Infinity Linden: the only fear i have is that once we start talking about that... we get some people saying "we must do XMPP"
• [9:51] Enus Linden: and i do know the improved_im scheme a bit, and it would work relatively well for OGP
• [9:52] Infinity Linden: and others saying "we must do IRC"
• [9:52] Infinity Linden: and still others saying "SIP/SIMPLE is the one true way"
• [9:52] Enus Linden: we must do something, and that something can be translated given a standard interface
• [9:52] Infinity Linden: right... sai and i were thinking we could create something
• [9:52] Lalinda Lovell: i agree with sai, something rather than more debate is needed
• [9:52] Infinity Linden: maybe call it OGP GROUP IM 0.9 beta
• [9:52] Infinity Linden: with the idea that it'll get something out the door quick
• [9:53] Saijanai Kuhn: well, for NOW I see no rason why different services can be shoehorned on top of IIM on teh AD side as its piped to the client, but even before that, just get something working with the current GUI in the viewer
• [9:53] Infinity Linden: but that there might be general agreement that it's not the "one true way" to a scalabe fuure
• [9:53] Infinity Linden: blergh... can't type in the morning either
• [9:53] Saijanai Kuhn: doesn't really like IIM, so he never advocated that
• [9:54] Enus Linden: i would hate to see a long term architextural solution stop just to get something working myself.
• [9:54] Saijanai Kuhn: Its just with my breif work with the viewer code, I know how difficult it is to add a new facility
• [9:54] Enus Linden: getting something working in a smart way, while continuing long term disc is good
• [9:54] Infinity Linden: tell me about it
• [9:55] Enus Linden: so fwiw, the viewer is starting a refactor right now as well
• [9:55] Enus Linden: *should* make things easier in time
• [9:55] Saijanai Kuhn: my thought was to add a cap I/O for group IM where the AD would pose as a sim to the IM server, and then do I/O with the client viea caps
• [9:55] Enus Linden: but that's a long term thing itself
• [9:55] Infinity Linden: "in a smart way"... does that mean you have a preference for "doing it right" vs. "doing it fast"
• [9:55] Eddy Stryker: what does that mean? a rewrite, or cleaning up some functions, or somewhere in between?
• [9:56] Infinity Linden: i mean... personally... i can see the benefits of both approaches
• [9:56] Enus Linden: agreed infinity
• [9:56] Enus Linden: depends on what our schedule for getting x done happens to be, how many folks can tackel it, etc
• [9:56] Infinity Linden: "doing it right" in my mind is having the long discussion in AWG and internally about how we really, really should be doing chat
• [9:56] Saijanai Kuhn: and then the client would take that and do the CAP/UDP magic and it would end up working as it always does (not well, but we only have 100ish gridnauts right now anyway)
• [9:56] Infinity Linden: "doing it fast" is just slathering a layer of OGP on top of hte agent chat facility we have now
• [9:57] Lalinda Lovell: how long would long be?
• [9:57] Saijanai Kuhn: the fast way should expose a lot of potential gotchas though
• [9:57] Infinity Linden: well... depends on the AWG members
• [9:57] Lalinda Lovell: doing it fast is better than long delays
• [9:57] Enus Linden: eddy: starting with login,abstracting things into a modular arch to the best of ability
• [9:57] Infinity Linden: we've been chatting about IM for a while
• [9:57] Saijanai Kuhn: 1+ years I think
• [9:57] Infinity Linden: and the thing that concerns me is that we seem no closer to a solution now than we were a year ago
• [9:57] Infinity Linden: or rather
• [9:58] Lalinda Lovell: exactly
• [9:58] Infinity Linden: we're no closer to converging on a solution
• [9:58] Enus Linden: why not?
• [9:58] Infinity Linden: we still have some peeps insisting that everything be XMPP
• [9:58] Eddy Stryker: enus: are you looking at using separate libraries for things like login, or is this purely just a refactoring of the C++ objects?
• [9:58] Infinity Linden: or at least that's my take-away
• [9:58] Lalinda Lovell: it cant be a democracy
• [9:58] Infinity Linden: oh! man! a modular plugin system would be teh awesum
• [9:59] Saijanai Kuhn: that's one of the things we're trying to design into pyogp
• [9:59] Eddy Stryker: even moving code into separate dlls
• [9:59] Infinity Linden: yeah.. i think if we would have had such a think in the viewer code
• [9:59] Infinity Linden: gigs wouldn't have thought he had to fork
• [9:59] Infinity Linden: but... water under the bridge
• [9:59] Enus Linden: eddy, i'd have to read wikis. i know additional dlls are being discussed in some context, not sure if it's this one...
• [10:00] Saijanai Kuhn: for this, I think pyogp can be used as the prototyping code for viewer architecture changes
• [10:00] Infinity Linden: yeah... fortunately... PyOGP is in the position to do things modularly
• [10:00] Eddy Stryker: ok. was just trying to get a feel of whether it's more realistic to see the OMF viewer become separate dlls, or the LL one
• [10:00] Infinity Linden: we don't hvae to repeat some of the mistakes of the past
• [10:00] Infinity Linden: @Eddy... don't know what to tell you on that one.. i'm not _that_ close to the current happenings on the LL viewer
• [10:01] Eddy Stryker: no worries, thanks
• [10:01] Infinity Linden: but i do know that several people (inside LL and out) have in the past advocated for a refactoring of the viewer, including moving to modular login, modular _fill in the blank_
• [10:01] Infinity Linden: but honestly... i don't know what the schedule for such work would be
• [10:02] Saijanai Kuhn: raises hand
• [10:02] Enus Linden: 12 months -18 months
• [10:02] Enus Linden: login work is underway
• [10:02] Infinity Linden: the floor recognizes sai?
• [10:02] Enus Linden: hehehe
• [10:02] Enus Linden: no me me!
• [10:02] Infinity Linden: lol
• [10:02] Saijanai Kuhn: problem is, the GUI code is so tied up with the network/I/O code that its a gordion knot thing
• [10:02] Infinity Linden: @sai... don't remind me
• [10:02] Saijanai Kuhn: I was riasing hand to show I was one of those who advocated refactoring
• [10:03] Infinity Linden: in the past what i've seen people do is layer an interface on top of the gordian know
• [10:03] Infinity Linden: knot
• [10:03] Infinity Linden: an interface that looks like a nice OO thing
• [10:03] Saijanai Kuhn: one thing I realized after working with python TK is that the current GUI is a port of TK
• [10:03] Infinity Linden: but really is nothing but calls into the legacy code
• [10:03] Lalinda Lovell: Infinity do you think a vote of awg members is needed to move forward more swiftly, to try and gain some agreement?
• [10:03] Infinity Linden: and then start refactoring stuff under the hood to use the new interface
• [10:04] Saijanai Kuhn: and whoever did the specialty classes like for inventory folders, didn't keep that in mind and just bolted on stuff willy-nilly
• [10:04] Infinity Linden: @Lalinda... i'm really just hoping we can define an intrim IM service that everyone can agree with
• [10:04] Infinity Linden: so that it would be quickly adopted, yes
• [10:04] Saijanai Kuhn: so the TK philosophy is there, but muddy
• [10:05] Infinity Linden: @Sai... stop spreading rumors about our code... it's beautiful!!! ;-)
• [10:05] Saijanai Kuhn: would favor a more wx-style for the future but...
• [10:05] Infinity Linden: well... lemme ask it this way
• [10:05] Infinity Linden: what's the easiest, fastest, hackiest thing we could do?
• [10:06] Infinity Linden: we might want to define that
• [10:06] Infinity Linden: and then continue working on the "IM architecture of man's desiring"
• [10:06] Lalinda Lovell: quick is good
• [10:06] Infinity Linden: see where the differences are
• [10:06] Saijanai Kuhn: for IM? AD acts like a sim, takes the IIM packets and forwards them to the avatar client via a cap and then passes them back to the im server the same way
• [10:06] Infinity Linden: which should inform us of grander architectural issues
• [10:06] Infinity Linden: @sai.. yup
• [10:07] Eddy Stryker: take care everyone
• [10:07] Enus Linden: bye eddy
• [10:07] Infinity Linden: cheers eddy
• [10:07] Saijanai Kuhn: no real change required for the GPL viewer code except to handle the IIM through a different cap
• [10:07] Infinity Linden: right
• [10:07] Enus Linden: but what does that get us?
• [10:07] Saijanai Kuhn: which gives us insight into cap i/o and scalability and all that in the AD
• [10:08] Enus Linden: thats not a step toward a solution is it?
• [10:08] Infinity Linden: it gets us with "something" that we can work with while we're working out the details of the way IM should be
• [10:08] Saijanai Kuhn: it gives us group IM sooner rather than later, and lets us define a lot of things that arent defined now
• [10:08] Enus Linden: why not stub out a quick "solution" and try that implementation whatever it is?
• [10:08] Saijanai Kuhn: and the ability to test thigns behind the scenes on the AD side
• [10:08] Infinity Linden: right... what Sai sad
• [10:08] Infinity Linden: said
• [10:09] Saijanai Kuhn: has ben obsessing, er, thinking about this for quite a while now
• [10:09] Lalinda Lovell: lol
• [10:09] Enus Linden: i dont see how just getting group IM is any good if it's not a step toward an archectural solution
• [10:09] Saijanai Kuhn: ever since I tried to implement group IIM in python last year and bounced
• [10:09] Enus Linden: or an architectural one even
• [10:10] Infinity Linden: but it is a step towards an architectural solution
• [10:10] Saijanai Kuhn: well, we don't have ANYTHING is the problem and we don't have any way of testing ideas either
• [10:10] Infinity Linden: we take what we have
• [10:10] Infinity Linden: then where we want to be
• [10:10] Infinity Linden: look at the differences
• [10:10] Infinity Linden: and then see how you can implement both systems with the same (or a radically similar) interface
• [10:11] Saijanai Kuhn: I look at it this way: legacy IIM <=> AD <=> client followed by experimental IM <=> lkegacy IIM <=>AD <=> client
• [10:11] Infinity Linden: part of the problem seems to be we've developed camps that have differing opinions on what the ultimate IM architecture should look like
• [10:11] Enus Linden: what we have is a new domain, with a bunch yet to be solved. is proxying sim/client communications beneficial in evaluating how to bring new systems online in this domain?
• [10:12] Lalinda Lovell: infinity, yes
• [10:12] Infinity Linden: so rather than argue what the ideal solution is
• [10:12] Infinity Linden: we define an interface
• [10:12] Infinity Linden: and get peeps in the different camps to demonstrate their implementaton
• [10:12] Lalinda Lovell: enus, at zeros we decided to focus on 1 aspect that was deemed most important
• [10:12] Lalinda Lovell: rather than try and cover all aspects all the time
• [10:12] Saijanai Kuhn: so we can establish the pipe between AD and client and have a workign kludge, then play with the working kludge without needing to touch the client (at least for a whle)
• [10:13] Lalinda Lovell: and IM was chosen at the first focus
• [10:13] Enus Linden: i think focusing on one thing is wise
• [10:13] Infinity Linden: @Lalinda... lol.. and then we decided that inventory was going to be the first focus... and then we decided that _fill inthe blank_ was the first focus....
• [10:13] Enus Linden: ha!
• [10:13] Enus Linden: communication methods are always nice
• [10:14] Saijanai Kuhn: and if we want to epxierment with client to AD alternatives or client to sim or client to IRC server, we cah use pyogp or libsl or whatever for preliminary testing instead of modding the GUI of the GPL client
• [10:14] Enus Linden: and not burdened by content issues
• [10:14] Saijanai Kuhn: which is beyond painful
• [10:14] Infinity Linden: but now that Zero's been consumed by the Linden executive staff
• [10:14] Infinity Linden: i hear snips of messages
• [10:14] Infinity Linden: saying things like
• [10:14] Infinity Linden: "Infinity... Infinity... keep moving forward... save yourself..."
• [10:14] Infinity Linden: whcih is my way of saying
• [10:14] Lalinda Lovell: use the force
• [10:15] Kerry Giha: good at least it isn't "run"
• [10:15] Saijanai Kuhn: it also lets us test at least SOME inventory issues via the IIM packet
• [10:15] Saijanai Kuhn: it also lets us test at least SOME inventory issues via the IIM packet
• [10:15] Infinity Linden: there's a strong preference that we do whatever we can to drive *something* to completion
• [10:15] Whump Linden: Hello
• [10:15] Infinity Linden: and heck. if it turns out o be the wrong approach
• [10:15] Infinity Linden: then
• [10:15] Patnad Babii: hi Whump
• [10:15] Infinity Linden: well... we dump the code, remove it from the spec and move forward, never mentioning it again
• [10:15] Infinity Linden: hola whump
• [10:16] Enus Linden: if group concensus is to take this approach, ok. i am not seeing the value yet, but i will learn :)
• [10:16] Lalinda Lovell: if nothing is achieved, soon theres gonna be 'how many awg members does it take to change a light bulb' jokes
• [10:16] Cummere Mayo: chuckes and bites her tongue
• [10:16] Infinity Linden: lol
• [10:16] Enus Linden: lalinda: sai can crack his whip and make it happen post haste
• [10:16] Enus Linden: without sai all bets are off
• [10:16] Lalinda Lovell: answer would be 'we havent agreed yet if the lightbulb needs changing...
• [10:16] Infinity Linden: lol
• [10:16] Cummere Mayo: hell actually ill say it. if you dump the code thats at least mroe then some groups acheive infinity :)
• [10:17] Infinity Linden: or... 'we just defined dark as the standard'
• [10:17] Infinity Linden: and the cool think is
• [10:17] Infinity Linden: if we can make something hacky, yet half-way functional, we can get it deployed on aditi
• [10:17] Lalinda Lovell: thats how sl began
• [10:17] Infinity Linden: and then tested
• [10:18] Lalinda Lovell: just do it, then test it
• [10:18] Infinity Linden: lol
• [10:18] Saijanai Kuhn: 'me wonders if Infinity has read The TM Book or if that is now a general cultural thing
• [10:18] Infinity Linden: yeah... funny... i'm usually the one arguing for a "reasoned, deliberate architecture"
• [10:18] Infinity Linden: i guess i've been fully lindenized
• [10:18] Enus Linden: this is perceived as a step in that direction tho infinity
• [10:18] Lalinda Lovell: borg style
• [10:18] Enus Linden: or so i'm told
• [10:19] Cummere Mayo: >.<
• [10:19] Infinity Linden: but i;m also a big fan of as much testing as we can manage
• [10:19] Cummere Mayo: changes her group tag to a slightly less antagonistic one and sits in to listen
• [10:19] Infinity Linden: and i think we can make the argument to management that this is "a good way forward."
• [10:20] Infinity Linden: darn... missed your earlier tag
• [10:20] Enus Linden: then what are we waiting for? :)
• [10:20] Saijanai Kuhn: huge lag relogging
• [10:20] Infinity Linden: we're waiting for me to get off my rear and define the interface
• [10:20] Infinity Linden: to the degree that Leyla can implement it
• [10:20] Enus Linden:  :)
• [10:20] Kerry Giha: I agree starting out with experimenting with the IM is a good way to test.
• [10:21] Infinity Linden: but it totally makes sense to talk to both PyOGP and AWG peeps to make sure there are no high-level objections to the process
• [10:21] Enus Linden: so infinity, i know you and tess are evaluating all 480+ messages in depth
• [10:21] Lalinda Lovell: who is more high level than me and sai?
• [10:21] Enus Linden: when will this interface proposal fit in?
• [10:21] Infinity Linden: yup
• [10:21] Saijanai Kuhn: I can't imagine there will be save from folks who have an agenda for something else
• [10:22] Saijanai Kuhn: "something else" n this case being "not getting anything done at all :-(
• [10:22] Lalinda Lovell: yes
• [10:22] Infinity Linden: well.. i'm ahead of schedule on the taxonomy tasks
• [10:22] Infinity Linden: so
• [10:22] Infinity Linden: assming there's no grid melt-downs in the next week
• [10:22] Infinity Linden: i could probably have an outline of a proposal by next friday
• [10:22] Infinity Linden: but honestly
• [10:23] Lalinda Lovell: excellent
• [10:23] Infinity Linden: i'm probably just gonna hang out in #pyogp
• [10:23] Infinity Linden: and #gridnauts
• [10:23] Infinity Linden: and reference diagrams on the public wiki
• [10:23] Enus Linden: kk infinity
• [10:23] Infinity Linden: yay! power's back on
• [10:23] Saijanai Kuhn: hooray
• [10:23] Infinity Linden: @ my house
• [10:24] Enus Linden: welcome back to the grid
• [10:24] Infinity Linden: lol.. yeah... i'm about as far as you can go and still be on the grid
• [10:24] Enus Linden: jealous
• [10:24] Infinity Linden: funny bit.. just found out i live about a mile from um... forgot his name... Electric Sheep CEO
• [10:25] Saijanai Kuhn: is mainstream enough that his car shows up at groundlevel in google maps
• [10:25] Infinity Linden: well... tuscon is kinda flat
• [10:25] Enus Linden: we'll look out for you on the irc infinity
• [10:25] Infinity Linden: and with that... i've got to fly
• [10:25] Enus Linden: and sai will pester you till you can help move things along :)
• [10:25] Saijanai Kuhn: thanks much Infinity
• [10:25] Infinity Linden: got more meetings
• [10:25] Kerry Giha: Thanks Infinity.
• [10:25] Enus Linden: real quick update per pyogp and then i fly too
• [10:25] Infinity Linden: cheers all
• [10:25] Saijanai Kuhn: is a real pest
• [10:25] Enus Linden: thanks infinity!
• [10:25] Lalinda Lovell: bye
• [10:26] Enus Linden: so pyogp: zca removal continues in a branch
• [10:26] Enus Linden: about hrm 2/3 done perhaps
• [10:26] Enus Linden: i fell into the trap of refactoring abit too much yesterday and may back track a little
• [10:27] Enus Linden: but mid next week will have a branch to look at
• [10:27] Saijanai Kuhn: what's your strategy there? are we going to be able to keep a modular style with things?
• [10:27] Enus Linden: and will hopefully have more accessible code to work with going forward
• [10:27] Enus Linden: sai: same fundamental structure
• [10:27] Saijanai Kuhn: KK
• [10:27] Enus Linden: so yes, still modular
• [10:28] Enus Linden: i have moved some classes to be methods of other classes
• [10:28] Saijanai Kuhn: ah, right the avatar/agent thing
• [10:28] Enus Linden: e.g. place avatar is not a class, it is a funtion of the agent domain object
• [10:28] Enus Linden: and avatar and agent merged
• [10:28] Saijanai Kuhn: did you look at my agent_obj class in wxexample.py?
• [10:28] Enus Linden: where i wandered was adding login to the agent, when login is it's own thing
• [10:29] Enus Linden: i'll look at that before i'm done sai
• [10:29] Saijanai Kuhn: yeah, my attitude was just to keep all the methods in the class along with all the references to data/objects that stick around for a while. That way, you can reference multiple avies
• [10:30] Second Life: Items coming in too fast, automatic preview disabled for 10 seconds.
• [10:30] Saijanai Kuhn: and deal with them in the GUI or command line the same way
• [10:30] Enus Linden: sai: i've updated example.py to be an agent driven example right now. the way it's crafted, multiple agents are no prob. feel free to take a look in the branch and provide feedback
• [10:30] Enus Linden: i still need to remove zca from message/ files
• [10:31] Saijanai Kuhn: KK
• [10:31] Enus Linden: and deal with event queues in both AD and region
• [10:31] Enus Linden: i think beyonid deleting all the commented out code, thats it....
• [10:31] Saijanai Kuhn: yeah, wxexample does that sorta
• [10:31] Enus Linden: thanks e1 for coming
• [10:31] Enus Linden: nice to see you lalinda :)
• [10:31] Lalinda Lovell: you too :)
• [10:32] Saijanai Kuhn: great meeting.
• [10:32] Whump Linden: thanks for hosting, Enus
• [10:32] Enus Linden: sure whump. glad you made it
• [10:33] Cummere Mayo: enus may i ask what level you are within LL?
• [10:33] Saijanai Kuhn: Enus I'll have that raw input form ready by electionday, I hope