User:Nyx Linden/Office Hours Transcript 2010-05-05

Below is a transcript of Nyx's Office hour which took place at noon PDT May 05, 2010 at Nyx's Office in Borrowdale. Transcript is raw and has not been formatted or censored - opinions presented below are attributed to the individuals listed and not the opinion of Linden Lab or any other entity. Please contact Nyx Linden in-world if you would prefer your comments removed from this transcript.

Begin Transcript

Nyx Linden:hey guys, lets get started

Asterion Coen::)

Nyx Linden:agenda is here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Nyx_Linden/Office_Hours_Agenda

Nyx Linden:feel free to add topics as they come up

Nyx Linden:first topic! "[A week in advance of the OH to give time to prepare a useful answer (:P)] ... How might you implement portal apertures in the viewer, for the specific case where the area behind the portal contains the scenegraph belonging to a different part of the SL grid? This is required both for simple remote 3D viewing, and for step-through region-crossing / teleport."

Rex Cronon:people come to OHs and expect there to be no trascript? weird

xstorm Radek:Nyx i see a lot of new topics

Nyx Linden:morgaine: I believe this was your topic?

Skills Hak:sounds like morg  :)

Latif Khalifa:haha

Nyx Linden:First step I'd say would be to enable rendering from multiple viewpoints simultaneously. Definitely would take a performance hit on this though

Nyx Linden:Second, need to enable being logged into two grids simultaneously with one client

Nyx Linden:then present the view of the second world with a portal object that renders the remote scenegraph

Asterion Coen:and need a supercalculator too with  :)

Morgaine Dinova:Back

Nyx Linden:probably have pretty strong performance implications, but eventually feasible  :)

Morgaine Dinova:It's not necessarily related to interop, Nyx. Same would apply within a single grid

Nyx Linden:well then, support being in two locations at the same time. Whether or not its a different grid

Nyx Linden:you'd have to get object updates for multiple locations, for example

Kitty Barnett:regions can barely cope as it is... giving them more child agents for a "oo shiny" effect wouldn't be a good thing

Morgaine Dinova:Would be very nice for communities to bridge through like that, and just allow their members to hop through the portal

Nyx Linden:easiest to start with two locations on the same sim, then venture out to different sim, then different grid

Nyx Linden:indeed  :)

Morgaine Dinova:Kitty: using that logic, we would have a total end to progress.

Kitty Barnett:or a focus on making the existing infrastructure scale :p

Jonathan Yap:Maybe the portal could display a snapshot of what is on the other side

Uni Ninetails:does it have to show everything? could such a portal be "hazy" on a limited draw of the area like 10-20m?

Morgaine Dinova:That's not a portal then Jonathan

Ardy Lay:I use the snapshot method.

xstorm Radek:hold on is this not limiting people to start off away from some places ?

Rex Cronon:u could have a bot, that updates the picture on prim:)

Ardy Lay:A live image is not needed for my use but I could use a captured video clip.

Nyx Linden:presumably it wouldn't update as often as your main world view

Nyx Linden:could be non-real time rendering - update the image every 30-60 seconds?

xstorm Radek:mainland as it is has less and less trafic do to the community gateways and sims like that

Uni Ninetails:regress further. how about the ability to walk through a prim and be teleported without having to bugger about. (im sure thats jirad somehere)

Ardy Lay:ANyway, people have abjected to using the portals and just wanted the landmark driven sit targets back. Oh well.

Erinyse Planer:presumably theres a portal bjec at the other side right? couldnt you jsut attach a cam at eah portal ?

Morgaine Dinova:SL already has portals, in effect: they're called "adjacent regions", which do exactly the same thing, implant the scenegraph of one region into another. The only difference is that adjacent regions don't have occluding portal apertures.

xstorm Radek:will this remove the last little bit of trafic we have left ?

Nyx Linden:its a very specialized case. Would have to do a lot of work to generalize it.

Morgaine Dinova:xstorm: stop trying to restrict the future to safeguard your current business. That's called Luddism.

Morgaine Dinova:One has to move ahead.

Uni Ninetails:well step ones seems to me to be a prim with a piccie on it you can walk into and be seamlessly transported to the location defined.

xstorm Radek:why not just call them what they are Telehubs !!!!

Techwolf Lupindo:Having working tp would help a lot. Would be nice to "step" into a protal and have it actually work to end up on the other side of the grid.

Uni Ninetails:those stargates open the map dont they? not very immersive

Asterion Coen:let's remove TP and put trains, and planes instead  :)

Babygirl Little:hehe

Uni Ninetails:yay!

Patty1 Rosca:cool

Morgaine Dinova:Indeed, lot of problems with current TP. LL has to solve them, or open the code up for open source to solve. Or the third option is that LL is dead. Hopefully won't come to that

xstorm Radek:i do not wish to see them lag making things called stargates its the same as to open up the map

Nyx Linden:I shall have the electric sheep dream of such features  :)

Erinyse Planer:how about airships and starfighters?

Teathing keys:Alexandrea Fride chews on their teething keys

Babygirl Little:alex back \o/

Latif Khalifa::)

Uni Ninetails:xstorm they already exist

Nyx Linden:ok mind if we move to the next topic?

Latif Khalifa:i've heard they have electric sheep on zindra (lol)

Uni Ninetails:baaaaa

Alexandrea Fride:about time

Latif Khalifa:hahaha

Nyx Linden:I'll take that as a yes.

Nyx Linden:next topic: "Update on source code availability for multiwearables project. - Nyx "

Morgaine Dinova:But what's not an option is to stop progress, because the competition will do it instead and then LL truly is dead. So it needs to be sorted out.

Object:Hello, Avatar!

Uni Ninetails:Hello object.

Nyx Linden:merov is working dilligently *right now* to merge our progress on 2.1 code over to snowglobe.

Nyx Linden:once that happens, we'll have automated scripts to keep viewer-public and snowglobe in sync, so you guys can see the latest and greatest code  :)

Jonathan Yap:Multi-wearables is still under development?

Morgaine Dinova:Well 2.x was a regression Nyx, so really what's being done now is to bring 2.x back up to parity with 1.x

Latif Khalifa:nice, let's hope this time it actually happens  :)

Nyx Linden:including.....multi-wearables and the new appearance side panel and outfit editor  :)

Nyx Linden:I'd really love to get some community eyes on the code for this, see if the code is reasonable to you guys, offer areas of improvement, etc

Bug Hilltop:I tend to agree with that, Morgaine, I cant stand 2.0. So many reasons

Uni Ninetails:Morg could argue you gotta take a few steps backwards before lurching forwards *risks optimism.

Erinyse Planer:I hate 2.0 hate it and want to see it gone

Nyx Linden:so I'm really excited about us doing the bulk of our development in the open. I'm hoping we have a much faster track to get snowglobe patches back into the main codebase as well

Morgaine Dinova:Uni: sometimes one has to, yeah. But 2.0 wasn't sold to us as a step back in order to safeguard the future. If it had been, that would have been more honest, and very different

Latif Khalifa:Nyx, yes that would be nice

xstorm Radek:so Morgaine what do you wish SL to be more like WoW ?

Uni Ninetails:fair point i suppose

Uni Ninetails:Nyx can i has NDA lifted? soon? >.> <.<

Nyx Linden:There was a post on opensource-dev that was gathering viewer-2 issues into meta-jiras. please make sure you help gather feedback there.

xstorm Radek:i happen to think Viewer 2 is fine its the UI that still needs custom

Erinyse Planer:I keep hearing how 2.0 is much more new user friendly. if thats the case why is it ive sent litterally almsot 100 new users to 1.23 and had nearly all of them like it better?

Morgaine Dinova:Cripes, are you folks still under NDA?

Uni Ninetails:/me nods and feeds the fat MIB Linden another cookie

Nyx Linden:I'm personally trying to avoid becomming a UI dev, but please be sure that you direct UI feedback to Samuel Linden. He assured me he'll be able to make his office hour next week.

Skills Hak:NDAs will be lifted soon when the beta goes public

Nyx Linden:any questions on our source code and how the new branch strategy is going to work?

xstorm Radek:sorry Morgaine Nyx can not say if he is under NDA that under NDA

Latif Khalifa:heh Nyx, UI team and feedback are like water and oil  :)

Uni Ninetails:xstorm i was waiting for that... :P

Latif Khalifa:Nyx, I have a lot of questions about that

Latif Khalifa:Nyx, and I don't think it's going to work

Nyx Linden:Latif: would love to hear the questions  :)

Latif Khalifa:needs tweakage

Latif Khalifa:we need more than one viewer-external

Bug Hilltop:/me wonders what people under NDA are allowed t osay about NDA

Uni Ninetails:I havent been shot yet put it that way.

Alexandrea Fride:no comment? :p

Latif Khalifa:we need viewer-external-2.0

Nyx Linden:what's the difference latif?

Latif Khalifa:in addition to trunk syncing viewer-external

Latif Khalifa:what do you mean what's the difference?

xstorm Radek:ok Nyx what about texture load time and a graph to show time of textures loading and texture info ?

Kitty Barnett:is anything being changed on how patches are accepted? because when the source is available, I don't see how it would be even remotely possible for a community fix to make it in time for 2.1 and by 2.2 the patch would be outdated and pointless so the effort would be wasted

Nyx Linden:what distinction are you drawing between viewer-external and viewere-external-2.0?

Morgaine Dinova:Well Nyx's stuff is more interesting than UIs anyway. There's a good argument for the viewer not having an UI at all, but just an API. And let the community give it various UIs.

Latif Khalifa:viewer-external will follow whatever current internaal trunk is

Latif Khalifa:viewer-external-2.0 will follow 2.0-hotfix branch

Nyx Linden:Kitty - we're trying to streamline the process. keeping snowglobe in sync with our internal development will help with that a lot

Techwolf Lupindo:Why not expand the plug-in API? Its almost there with the current media-plugin. Just finished that project up.

Jonathan Yap:Does that imply there will/should be a viewer-external-2.1 ?

Latif Khalifa:once 2.1 is released there should be viewer-external-2.1-hotfix

Kitty Barnett:okies  :)

Jonathan Yap:(nice double)

Latif Khalifa:Jonathan only after 2.1 is released as golden and 2.2 is merged to trunk

Latif Khalifa:on viewer-external just doesn't cut it

Nyx Linden:looking for the merge diagram - anyone have a link handy?

Latif Khalifa:one*

Techwolf Lupindo:Currentoly viewer-externial is just tag to various releases. I think they are asking for 2.0.1, 2.1 tags.

xstorm Radek:Nyx are you working with snowglobe viewer ? and other viewer is this a new build your working with ?

Latif Khalifa:http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Repository_Strategy

Nyx Linden:thanks!

Latif Khalifa:Note from Q: as of 21 March 2010 we haven't yet implemented all of this -- some of it is waiting for the final release of Viewer 2.]

Latif Khalifa:lol

xstorm Radek:oh i see Q OH meeting

Nyx Linden:Latif: its a fair point. we probably should publish our hotfix branch as well.

xstorm Radek:and this is Nyx

Nyx Linden:I'll send an email out asking about that later today  :)

Nyx Linden:good catch

Latif Khalifa:so we need viewer-external that tracks trunk + all the hotfix branches for already released viewers

Nyx Linden:well already released viewers have published source I thought?

Latif Khalifa:you'd think

Nyx Linden:Latif: mind if we continue this in IM so I can move on to the next agenda topic?

Techwolf Lupindo:Has viewer 2.0 ever made it out of beta?

Latif Khalifa:L$10 if you point me to where i can get viewer 2.0.1 source (outside svn)

xstorm Radek:can that data not get it self Pished ?

Latif Khalifa:Nyx, no. I don't mind  ;)

Nyx Linden:thanks!

Nyx Linden:next topic: "Update on avatar meshes in general "

Alexandrea Fride:what kind of update?

Nyx Linden:avatars are still made of meshes.  :)

Bug Hilltop:Big ones?

Morgaine Dinova:Latif: perhaps ask Nyx to inquire about that specific question for us?

Nyx Linden:Erinyse - I think this was your topic? any specific questions?

Erinyse Planer:funny nyx.

Squirrel Wood:POKE!!!!

Uni Ninetails:!

Erinyse Planer:yeah, theres been talk of partially invisible meshes, and of quad meshes etc

Nyx Linden:! I have been poked!

Squirrel Wood:Indeed you have!

Nyx Linden:ah yes

Techwolf Lupindo:/me PEEKs.

Nyx Linden:still in the thinking stages as of now Erinyse

Morgaine Dinova:Watch out for nuts Nyx, she pokes them everywhere

Nyx Linden:not under active development

Nyx Linden:but something we want to get to

Erinyse Planer:/me sniffles "can we make it something to be gotten to this year?"

Latif Khalifa:are object meshes 2.1-ish time frame of 2.2?

Nyx Linden:ask Qarl about meshes  :)

Roland Riddler:hehe

Latif Khalifa:they've been publically announced lol

Alexandrea Fride:i beleve 2.1 latif if i read blog post correct

Uni Ninetails:thus my wish for the bad man from NDA land to go away

Fortune Egg 1:Here's some wisdom for you:

Fortune Egg 1:Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous

Skills Hak:well the next closed beta is around the corner  ;) materials

Skills Hak:so there will be new NDAs :p

Nyx Linden:so that's all I have for now on avatars

Nyx Linden:next topic: "Image error logs to be recorded for user. "

Nyx Linden:what's being asked for here specifically?

Techwolf Lupindo:I think they are asking some way to record corrumpted images that are downloaded. Bad textures.

Nyx Linden:Yes, wondering what we're not logging about that now that we should be?

Techwolf Lupindo:The UUID

Rex Cronon:the creator's key also, in case the image is deleted

Nyx Linden:under specific error conditions?

Techwolf Lupindo:Right now, I get a lot of bad channel messages on console, but no UUID so I can invengate what is causing those errors.

Nyx Linden:bad channels? those are probably baked textures

Nyx Linden:could you send me a log of the errors you're seeing?

Ardy Lay:First I would ask what the end user is going to do about corrupted texture in the asset storage system.

Ardy Lay:Are the texture being used to harass you in some way?

Nyx Linden:yeah, also need to be wary of exposing asset IDs for potentially protected content. I'd like to see exactly what the errors you're seeing are

Ardy Lay:If you are tracking a deliberate crash mode then perhaps fix the crash vector.

Ardy Lay:We have fixed crash vectors for sounds and animations that were breaking viewers.

Nyx Linden:aye

Nyx Linden:please send me logs or JIRAs for errors you're seeing that you'd like more info for, and what info you need (presumably UUID)

Nyx Linden:next (related?) topic: "Image load data and time graph."

Nyx Linden:load meaning network load, or decoding CPU load

xstorm Radek:User viewer load time

Ardy Lay:I would presume somebody is wanting a way to measure the improvements the soon-to-be-released HTTP texture pipeline brings.

Techwolf Lupindo:wonderfull, I can't find the error now. Not in my scrollback nor any logs.

Squirrel Wood:Nyx, my profile picture seems not to load fully and stays blurred. Unless I open the actual image from my inventory. then it loads fully.

xstorm Radek:there needs to be a scale for people to see that shows them what textures take to long to load

Ardy Lay:Oh, like the texture console?

xstorm Radek:yes

Nyx Linden:so in what ways is the texture console not sufficient?

Ardy Lay:I have a bug logged that I haven't checked on for a while.

Ardy Lay:/me looks it up.

xstorm Radek:need to see the target texture and what object they are on

Uni Ninetails:ive been seeing some res issues with inworld alpha textures on 2.0

Nyx Linden:sounds like a perfect feature request for the open source community to tackle  :)

Ardy Lay:http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-18580

Squirrel Wood:old texture console showed the textures on a selected prim/object whereas the V2 console does not.

xstorm Radek:right

Ardy Lay:"The Texture Console is not highlighting textures in the item I am editing in build 202934."

Squirrel Wood:regression

xstorm Radek:Viewer 2 has less

Nyx Linden:ok, will pass that bug on to our texture linden

Ardy Lay:I guess I should update that one.

Uni Ninetails:bleh still havent jirad those inventory load tests. got swamped with sl work

Nyx Linden:as for highlighting textures from the texture console in-world, I'd suggest going to the community for that one, I'm not sure that would be a high priority for us internally

Nyx Linden:no worries Uni

Squirrel Wood:nono. textures were shown in a different color on the console for a selected object

Ardy Lay:Nyx, I just want back what we have in 1.23.5

xstorm Radek:yes they was at one time

Nyx Linden:ah ok, yes. I'll pass that regression on. thanks for bringing it up  :)

Squirrel Wood:so you know which ones belong to that object

Asterion Coen:i have to run, have fun folks  :)

Nyx Linden:need to move on, running out of time. I'll have someone follow up on that JIRA

Nyx Linden:next topic: "Texture added cost on objects info. "

Ardy Lay:Thanks Nyx. VOTE people!

Ardy Lay::-)

Rex Cronon:tc

Nyx Linden:this asking for a render cost on object info, or something specific to textures?

xstorm Radek:Cost of textures on a prim or object is importent

Nyx Linden:what "cost" are you referring to?

Jonathan Yap:What do you mean by cost?

Nyx Linden:texture memory?

xstorm Radek:will to many textures such as sculps and textures on sculps not make a higher cost ?

Uni Ninetails:a way to tell if its a 1024x1024 on a small object?

xstorm Radek:yes

Nyx Linden:number of pixels? number of unique textures? number of batches?

Ardy Lay:Texture rendering cost varies by memory used maybe? Texture console can show that and so can the Texture Info hotkey, if it still works.

Squirrel Wood:texture size... bigger = worse

Nyx Linden:plenty of ways to describe "cost"  :)

Erinyse Planer:i think she wants to know hwo a textrue affects the rendercost?

Nyx Linden:each unique texture adds 10 to the render cost

Ardy Lay:Texture size affects "fill speed" on the GPU.

Uni Ninetails:ok but that 10 could be a 16x16 or a 512x512 etc?

Rex Cronon:number of pixels would be useful

Nyx Linden:right. because our render pipeline is affected most by pipeline stalls caused by having to change render state

xstorm Radek:and do to close to every one use a GPU that data must be seen

Nyx Linden:which happens when you change what textures are bound

Uni Ninetails:/me mumbles somthing about uv mapping and alpha masking and trees and sighs

Nyx Linden:face properties such as alpha-enabled add more to the rendering cost

Nyx Linden:note I'm using "rendering cost" here as we define the term, which is an abstract unit

xstorm Radek:and can you point out what texture and its size is making that cost higher ?

Uni Ninetails:a guideline metric to define efficent content?

Erinyse Planer:thanks for your oh nyx i need to run. ty  :)

Nyx Linden:right Uni. That metric does not take resolution into account.

Rex Cronon:tc

Nyx Linden:you can read about what goes into render cost here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Avatar_Rendering_Cost

Nyx Linden:sorry 5 points for each unique texture apparently, not 10? 10 is base cost per-prim

Ardy Lay:Sculpted prim base cost is: ?

Uni Ninetails:shouldnt the cost vary on texture size?

Nyx Linden:gah, ment to update that page for sculpts. let me check

xstorm Radek:base cost and what of sculpted ?

Ardy Lay:Sculpted should be what? 15?

Uni Ninetails:sounds reasonable

Ardy Lay:They are a little more work to render but pretty close to a hollow torus.

Nyx Linden:sculpted just adds an extra texture apparently from the code

Squirrel Wood:textures should add a cost of 1 per 32k pixels size

xstorm Radek:ok there is a sculpt prim

Nyx Linden:base cost per-prim is 10, more for larger prims. textures are 5 points per texture, not resolution-dependent right now

Squirrel Wood:bigger textures eat more memory and thus should cost more if you ask me

Nyx Linden:I actually argued to make render cost resolution-dependent

Nyx Linden:the response I got from our rendering lindens is that texture pipeline stalls are a better measure of performance load

Rex Cronon:also textures that have an alpha channel should cost more

Uni Ninetails:thats what i was saying. why not have a scaler cost for size of texture

Nyx Linden:alpha adds 4 points per face

Nyx Linden:larger textures don't tend to cause pipeline stalls. changing GL state does, hence why unique textures add to cost but resolution is not counted

Uni Ninetails:wonder what a material will add XD

Morgaine Dinova:If you look at Fast Timers in any typical scene, alpha is always hitting the viewer hard

xstorm Radek:so Nyx tell me what happens to that sculpt render time for each viewer type and is the cost the same for them ?

Uni Ninetails:Morg 905 of my alpha stuff id gladly force masked. if theyd LET ME

Uni Ninetails:*90%

Morgaine Dinova:Hehe

Nyx Linden:cost-wise we add the sculpt texture as another unique texture

xstorm Radek:yes

Nyx Linden:I think we might want to consider making them more expensive than that tbh

Uni Ninetails:sounds like your thinking about it...

xstorm Radek:yes

Ambient Moderation Orb 4.0:Your timer has expired!

Nyx Linden:hard to justify spending time on updating render cost calculations these days

Uni Ninetails:sooo

Uni Ninetails:multiattachments? >.>

Squirrel Wood:its a neccessity though

Nyx Linden:yeah, I'd like to gather resident thoughts on what needs to change about render cost, and then perhaps can justify taking care of all of them at once  :)

xstorm Radek:it may help if some one builds a sim all out of sculpted textures and high rez on it

Nyx Linden:please start a discussion on http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/forums/open-source/open-development , I'll track it there (we're out of time :P)

Nyx Linden:aaaand we have two more important topics!

Squirrel Wood:we're not out of time. YOU are ^^

Nyx Linden:(I'll stay a bit late)

Uni Ninetails:damn you robotic tase

Techwolf Lupindo:How is the multi-attament being done?

Uni Ninetails:tease

Nyx Linden:next topic: "HTTP image to object in script "

Nyx Linden:hey I'm sticking around, just trying to move things along  :)

Techwolf Lupindo:ok

Uni Ninetails:yay

Nyx Linden:what's the ask here?

Nyx Linden:specifying texture by URL rather than UUID?

Nyx Linden:(via scripts)

xstorm Radek:can a image thats on a web image server be impoted and used on a prim in sl

Nyx Linden:or am I misunderstanding?

Uni Ninetails:shared media without the shared media part

Nyx Linden:yes, save the image and upload it :P

Alexandrea Fride:hehehe

Squirrel Wood:xstorm, activeworlds does it that way... and it is prone to textures going missing

Jonathan Yap:xstorm, display it as a media object?

Nyx Linden:I know what you mean though

xstorm Radek:such as a list of images then sent using the new HTTP system ?

Uni Ninetails:i reeeaally want to try emeralds local textures

Jonathan Yap:Cool Rainbow Viewer has local textures now too

Nyx Linden:that certainly is an interesting proposal, could be powerful, but I worry somewhat about the potential implications. I'll have to start a discussion about that.

xstorm Radek:ok

xstorm Radek:cool

Uni Ninetails:work on sculpt. poof auto update... awesomeness

xstorm Radek:;-)

Squirrel Wood:register on website xyz to see sculpt in full resolution ?

Nyx Linden:I will leave the discussion of that to lindens more knowledgeable about the impact of that

Nyx Linden:than I

Nyx Linden:good question though!

Uni Ninetails:local fast edits

xstorm Radek:think of what a company can do with it

Ardy Lay:Squirrel, I am thinking "creator preview and private content".

Squirrel Wood:works too

xstorm Radek:yes

Nyx Linden:possible issues: showing content you don't own, no automatic LOD, permissions & IP issues, etc

Nyx Linden:possible benifits: faster texture loading, less stress on our servers

Squirrel Wood:localhost texture preview? limited to 127.0.0.1 ?

Nyx Linden:I'll make a note to start the discussion internally. good to move to the last topic?

xstorm Radek:that can be fix with a texture database of users

Morgaine Dinova:The bulk of texture "owners" don't own the textures anyway, they grabbed them off the net, so the whole situation is pretty nutty.

xstorm Radek:i think many real users sign a TOS about copyrighted images

Morgaine Dinova:s/owners/"creators"/

Uni Ninetails:/me peels a few stickers off her bike >.> <.<

Morgaine Dinova:lol

Squirrel Wood:when I need a texture I usually demand google finds a suitable one for me :p

Techwolf Lupindo:All images are copyrighted by defauilt. There is no such thing as a un-copyrighted image.

Squirrel Wood:can't bother reinventing the wheel over and over again

xstorm Radek:lol

Squirrel Wood:wb

Nyx Linden:grr crashed

Alexandrea Fride:*:::* WELCOME BACK *:::*

Rex Cronon:wb

xstorm Radek:poor nyx missed out on the TOS rules about textures lol

Techwolf Lupindo:See Nyx, viewer 2.0 is not ready for release.

Alexandrea Fride:hehe

Techwolf Lupindo::-)

Morgaine Dinova:Of source, Squirrel. But LL is pretending that the wheels have been reinvented by the so-called "creators" of textures in their database. Well it's no such thing, except in very rare cases.

Squirrel Wood:viewer 2 is pre alpha if you ask me. at least in some areas

Nyx Linden:actually by that metric, my macbook is not ready for release....it completely locked up :P

xstorm Radek:every user signs it when they join

Nyx Linden:ok so last topic.....multi-attachments!

Uni Ninetails:Hey come on short of plants i tries to makes mah own texture nows....

Squirrel Wood:emerald does them, and with the regular viewer you see people leaving behind their prims because of that

xstorm Radek:unless Nyx your telling us the TOC now no longer covers textures we upload ?

Uni Ninetails:/me nods

Squirrel Wood:much wanted feature anyway

Alexandrea Fride:and more hud space

Squirrel Wood:much dreaded feature too because of blingtards and their badly scripted asstachments

Techwolf Lupindo:Nyx, will there be a neck attament point?

Nyx Linden:I'm not the best person to answer permissions / TOS questions - I can forward them on to lindens who know though

Morgaine Dinova:Yeah, but it's rare Uni, and you know it. Only a few people really draw or generate their own new textures.

Squirrel Wood:eating up a sims resources like nothing else

Uni Ninetails:/me nods

Nyx Linden:so many questions on multi-attachments

Uni Ninetails:giz

Squirrel Wood:do want but only with script time limits

Nyx Linden:first of all, we will cap total number of attachments, but allow you to attach multiple to the same point

Uni Ninetails:32 an av. and script limits would b good too

Rex Cronon:i want and attachment for every finger:)

Rex Cronon:toes too:)

Uni Ninetails:hands and feet.

Alexandrea Fride:???

Nyx Linden:we don't have bones for toes :/

xstorm Radek:every texture we upload falls under the TOS and the same will be for HTTP texture import or linking

Jonathan Yap:How are you going to deal with what earlier versions of viewers will see? I see Emerald attachments offset to the place they are indented to be located.

Uni Ninetails:Yeah

Nyx Linden:I'm going to push for some new attachment points, but those may or may not be added at the same time of multi-attachments

Jonathan Yap:*intended

Rex Cronon:gremlins ate your toes:)

Morgaine Dinova:Does the face have a wearable now, or is that still the missing exception body part?

Morgaine Dinova:I mean over the skin

Techwolf Lupindo:Nyx, I think neck would be #1 on top of that list.

Alexandrea Fride:but on face you have skull,ears,nose and mounth

Nyx Linden:Morgaine: it has tattoo layer

Morgaine Dinova:Nyx: ah, new with 2.o?

Uni Ninetails:i cant wait for the day i can link my effing collar off my head...

Uni Ninetails:*unlink

Nyx Linden:the tatto wearable is new to 2.0, yes.

Morgaine Dinova:Cool Nyx  :-)

Nyx Linden:multi-attachments requires some server changes as well, so if those don't go through we may have to defer the client function.

Nyx Linden:but we are working on it, just no guaranteed release date

Uni Ninetails:what changes?

Morgaine Dinova:Having to buy a whole new skin just to get a tan was always so stupid.

Rex Cronon:why can't we attach thing to: wrists, knees, ankles?

Nyx Linden:supporting wearing multiple objects at the same attachment point

Uni Ninetails:why you need server changes? to limit?

Nyx Linden:(instead of creating new attachment points at the same location like Emerald does)

Uni Ninetails:ooooo

Techwolf Lupindo:Right now, there are full prim avatars and transforming avatars that use up almost all the curretn attment points. At lease add two per attament point will help out a lot for those avatar to wear acceccories.

Nyx Linden:to limit total number of attachments and to allow you to wear them at the same attachment point ID

Uni Ninetails:got you so if you wear two neck attachments it just works

Techwolf Lupindo:There are LOT of folks that want to have a sword in there paw.

Jonathan Yap:Nyx, will objects on these new positions display correctly on older viewers?

Morgaine Dinova:Sword on the head is much better :P

Nyx Linden:Techwolf, as long as they still have free attachment points *somewhere* they should be fine

Nyx Linden:Jonathan: will display correctly in 2.0 based viewers.

Uni Ninetails:Tech: paws and hand cuffs :P

Techwolf Lupindo:/me chuckles

Nyx Linden:probably will be some difficulties around UI for this, but we'll iterate on that

Squirrel Wood:no need to link no modify objects together anymore ^^

Uni Ninetails:pain in the ass updating open collar.

Morgaine Dinova:How about shared attachments, so that people can hold hands?

Uni Ninetails:its for the chop thos if it doesnt lower mem useage

Alexandrea Fride:yes!

Nyx Linden:Morgaine: one step at a time please  :)

Nyx Linden:we're not done implementing multi-attachments yet!

Alexandrea Fride:or simpel allow afatar to sit on prims attacht to an avatar :p

Morgaine Dinova:Nyx: 10 at a time please, life's too short :P

Nyx Linden:yes, but my work schedule is too long already :P

Alexandrea Fride:???

Morgaine Dinova:Clone! :P

Nyx Linden:cloning machine is broken again  :(

Alexandrea Fride:but Nyx your a robot cant you multitask? :p

Uni Ninetails:ill let a bit of pesimism come in. but like region windlight.... thats what this feels like. when you mention server stuff + viewer stuff i get a cold chill down mah back

Chaley May:or just attach an avatar instead of object

Nyx Linden:I'm already multitasking!

Alexandrea Fride:time for a chip upgrade then :p

Nyx Linden:I only have so many CPU cycles to distribute between tasks. unless you want me working on 30 features and never completing any of them

Techwolf Lupindo:yea, what happend to windlight? That project never got finshed. Would love to enter a sim durnign October and get neat windlight setting to set the mood there.

Squirrel Wood:get a cpu upgrade. more cores, more threads.

Uni Ninetails:ive kept my gob relatively shut about region windlight. think its in the bin again

Alexandrea Fride::p

Alexandrea Fride:windlight should have ben done years ago :/

Squirrel Wood:like, I got an i7-980x here and SL still performs.. bad.

Nyx Linden:so....speaking of work....

Nyx Linden:I have a lot left to do today!

Squirrel Wood:yes. get work done  :)

Uni Ninetails:urrg yeah

Alexandrea Fride:tc Nyx and hf ???

Nyx Linden:thanks for coming all!

Morgaine Dinova:Interesting session, thanks Nyx

Rex Cronon:tc nyx

Uni Ninetails:thanks Nyx

Nyx Linden:have a great week, see you guys next week

Squirrel Wood:thanks for having us  :)

Jonathan Yap:Thank you Nyx

Alexandrea Fride:tc evryone

Nyx Linden:comment on multi-wearables and keep an eye out for the new code!

Uni Ninetails:Ive got a sewer system to map of all things

Roland Riddler:thx, cya everyone