User:Torley Linden/Office Hours/2008-07-03

Torley Linden: aahhhhhhh crap, sorry about that
Torley Linden: thanks!
ShinIori319 Feichholz: We understand
Torley Linden: i also got interrupted along the way with some SL5B stuff
Torley Linden: BUT I AM BACK
Louise Later: People with disabilites tend to be kind of trapped and SL is a great place to get away to
ShinIori319 Feichholz: CRASH
Torley Linden: and hope to stay
Xavier Felwitch: wb torley :)
Maarten Supercharge: wb^^
Multi Chair Crate v1.0.42 (TORLEY MOD) whispers: Maximum number of chairs reached, please rez another Multi Chair table.
Polgara Paine gave you 2008-07-03 12:06:42 torley's office hours/disability issues.
Torley Linden: what awesomeness did i miss?
Ranos Brumer: I showed up.
Pandora Wrigglesworth: Louise, that's a very good point. I can't count the number of disabled people I have met here.
Pandora Wrigglesworth: Welcome back, Torley.
Torley Linden: *reads the disability issues notecard*
Torley Linden: now is a good time for me to mention https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Accessibility -- please fill out information!
Torley Linden: pass that along to everyone you know who would be interested, whether they are disabled or care for someone who is
Cube Republic: hello there Torley :@)
Torley Linden: (sorry i can't accept friendship requests and answer IMs right now, too much going on)
Jerry Mordkamm: wb I raided you textures while you were gone
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Ranos Brumer: How you like my flag?
Torley Linden: that page is meant to gather all the helpful resources that come up
Master Nestler: YAY! (yay!)
Torley Linden: it's a very patriotic flat, that is for sure
Torley Linden: *flag
Ranos Brumer: lol
Master Nestler: must of watched the how to make a flag video
Ranos Brumer: Just made it
Torley Linden: OK Louise, so about your wonderful questions...
Louise Later: And I love how the hat is flexi!
Ranos Brumer: no I didn't actually
Blackie Dagger: back
Ranos Brumer: I just came from a class
Xavier Felwitch: wb blackie :)
Torley Linden: (1) each Linden is responsible for their own profile, but Resident Experience/New User people would be the closest thing to improving them in the future
Blackie Dagger: thank you :)
Ranos Brumer: bout flexi's and got me thinking and got my creativity going and I made this
Torley Linden: (2) not sure about that, this sounds like a good opportunity to put a call out... do you mean, avatars in wheelchairs with specific dances for them?
Torley Linden: (3) i don't know about that, sorry
Polgara Paine: yes
Torley Linden: (5) i'd appreciate any and all help i can get :) feel free to remix my videos and caption them; i wish there was an intertransportable standard for closed captioning but there isn't
Torley Linden: QuickTime --> Flash doesn't work :\
Saijanai Kuhn: Torley, did you ever get teh message about MEtanomics challenge to Steven Colbert?
Torley Linden: i've been looking for an easier way
Torley Linden: yes Saijanai thanks, but i'm sorry, i didn't have time to check it out further
Torley Linden: i really need clones
Cube Republic: i wish we didnt have to sleep
Cube Republic: lol
Cube Republic: such a waste of time
ShinIori319 Feichholz: hehehe
Xavier Felwitch: its overated cube
Torley Linden: i used to get by on 4 hrs of sleep/night but then, alas... i ummm forgot my dreams
Xavier Felwitch: :P
ShinIori319 Feichholz: lol
Louise Later: Ah, to sleep to dream--and SL is where dreams come true!
Torley Linden: and context here re: accessibility, Matthew did pass some info along to me -- not sure if that was the same ticket (i'm not in support) but that led to the Accessibility page
Pandora Wrigglesworth: The tricky thing about a wheelchair dance would be that a wheelchair is either a vehicle or an attachment. In either case, it's very much like animating dances for an unusual avatar, like a Tiny, but without the standardization of the the Tiny avatar. So that would make a danceball impractical. You would need a custom interface specific to the wheelchair for dances.
Torley Linden: so again, i'd really welcome any useful resources that could help improve the inworld experience for the disabled @ https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Accessibility
Louise Later: Yes it was the same ticket
Louise Later: we have one wheelchair dance and awesome videos
Torley Linden: any links to videos would be great too =)
Louise Later: of peoople dancing
Louise Later: is there a way to animate for SL from Video?
Torley Linden: how do mean, Louise? :)
Torley Linden: explain more please?
Maarten Supercharge: hm
Louise Later: It there is a program--one on our volunteers works for Disney
Louise Later: They turn video into animation all the time
Pandora Wrigglesworth: I am not aware of any motion-capture tools specific to SL but you could certain rotoscope by hand from video.
Ranos Brumer: your talking somethign like Caemera tracking?
Cube Republic: thats tracing
Louise Later: what animation works in SL
Louise Later: Disney has a lot of resources
Blackie Dagger: animations are not made with videos here, we make them with outside tools: QAvimator, Poser, Avimator and some others.
Cube Republic: you can do that with onion skin thing like in flash, but i believe its poser that the pro aqnimators use in sl, so you would need to get your animation into poser and then saved
Louise Later: I need to know what to ask for
Ellla McMahon: re the Profiles ... Benjamin Linden's Office Hour would probably be the best place to raise this issue; Open discussion of User Experience issues (usability, UI design, UI bugs, etc). Thursdays at 3pm SLT http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours
Torley Linden: thanks for the help Ellla!
Saijanai Kuhn: There is a nightclub I read about called Wheelies, run by a wheelchair bound avatar who is wheelchair bound in RL. He dances
Ellla McMahon: :)
Torley Linden: there's a lot to keep track of so i appreciate the extra info
Ranos Brumer: I may know of a camera tracking program that makes motion paths for 3d programs
Ranos Brumer: which may be able to be used to create animations
Torley Linden: it's a wonderful thing to find out someone far across the grid may've been working on the same things you have, or have similar ideas... then it becomes a matter of finding them :)
Ranos Brumer: not a cheap solution though
Cube Republic: has anyone seen the pink fl;oyd/ wall show on here?
Louise Later: I watched your animation video Torley--but I don't understand the field
Multi Chair Crate v1.0.42 (TORLEY MOD) whispers: Maximum number of chairs reached, please rez another Multi Chair table.
Saijanai Kuhn: http://secondedition.wordpress.com/2007/07/28/empowering-the-physically-challenged/
Torley Linden: which field, Louise? creating animations?
Louise Later: Yes
JetZep Zabelin: Hi! =D
Louise Later: what format would Disney volunteer need to use?
Blackie Dagger: hi JetZep
Ewan Mureaux: speaking of fields could they open the cornfield for a day and let us have a nosey in it?
Cube Republic: .bvh
Louise Later: for the final endproduct
Torley Linden: Ewan, i haven't been there in so long
Torley Linden: i wish we had an easier inworld animation editor
Ewan Mureaux: i added a wiki page for it
Saijanai Kuhn: well, the pupeteering work would be ideal, but that was cancelled
Louise Later: Thank you Ewan! Even the thought of the cornfield is shivery
Pandora Wrigglesworth: Torley, just being able to tweak priority and other import parameters in-world would be nice.
Torley Linden: totally agree, Pandora.
Maarten Supercharge: Torley, is there a way to get rid of the blending of 2 textures with alpha
Saijanai Kuhn: http://avatarpuppeteering.com/
Torley Linden: it is very weird that after you upload an anim, you can't tweak those parameters.
Louise Later: Polgara, what is the wheelchair dance in now? That i what we need to aim for
Xavier Felwitch: that would acturally.... being about to reset them would be nice
Torley Linden: Maarten, there are some workarounds...
Xavier Felwitch: able*
Rock Pond Pose ball: llStopAnimation: Script trying to stop animations but agent not found
Louise Later: is
Polgara Paine: All but one of the dances are normal dances that just don't make the avatar stand up
Pandora Wrigglesworth: For that matter, it would be nice if you could even SEE those parameters in-world.
Maarten Supercharge: I've been looking for it in the wiki, but helas....
Polgara Paine: We have one wheelchair dance that was special made and it uses wheelies during the dancing
Cube Republic: but the wheelies would be part of an attachment Polgara/or a vehicle and would not be controlled by avatar animation ?
Saijanai Kuhn: is the wheelchair an avatar costume or a vehicle?
Polgara Paine: The wheelies dance is probably an AO, but I'm not positive, I didn't write it.
Pandora Wrigglesworth: If there are wheelies, it must be an attachment.
Louise Later: Torley--you could do a video on issues like accessibility--"special issues" asking people to raise them
Multi Chair Crate v1.0.42 (TORLEY MOD) whispers: Maximum number of chairs reached, please rez another Multi Chair table.
Polgara Paine: Wheelchairs attach to the pelvis or the spine usually
Cube Republic: the best way would to use a moderfied vehicle that followed a set routine
Saijanai Kuhn: you could script a vehicle to "dance" and have it tied to an AO in some way, I would think
Torley Linden: Louise, i am definitely open to doing that! i'd like to see the Accessibility page contributed to more, too.
Torley Linden: acutally i am going to blog about several pages that need more attention, and that Accessibility page is one of them...
Torley Linden: there are a lot of scattered resources which need to be put together more cohesively and easily to find...
Cube Republic: the seated avatar would follow the vehicles movement
Ewan Mureaux: can i make a slightly OT sufggestion but could eeasily have accessability as a feature of it?
Torley Linden: inevitably in the future, i'd also be very supportive of highlighting any specific accessibilility features we might have
Louise Later: Is there voice here? In your office hours?
Polgara Paine: yes
Cube Republic: accessibility makes up an important part of my degree...with regards to webpages
Polgara Paine: Good, Cube
Louise Later: I have the sound off because I keep hearing your great video on textures
Torley Linden: not yet Louise but it's been brought up several times before; the majority of my visitors have wanted text chat, but i might do voice-specific ones if there's interest/demand. of note, i've done some voice interviews/events inworld...
Polgara Paine: sometimes accessibility depends on creatively using what we have
Louise Later: Cool! maybe once a month
Torley Linden: yup Polgara, sometimes existing resources can be reshaped to make life, Second Life easier
JetZep Zabelin: maybe a voice-to-text could put what you say into text chat too
Cube Republic: depends on the disability, be it physical/eye sight/hearing/mental health
Polgara Paine: for example, when one of our members was having trouble tracking me, I bought a formal escort and can now escort that person
Louise Later: have voice with a good typist who can type the chat so the record is complete
Pandora Wrigglesworth: There's a thought: I with that, when you don't have voice-chat on, you could see some indicator to let you know if other people around you are using it. That way, you would know when it might be good to turn it on.
Torley Linden: my main challenge right now is finding any more time to do things, i've been so flooded. it's such a crazy octopus juggling act, and in kind, we've been hiring more Lindens to do stuff that i used to do and fill those roles ;)
Louise Later: I have a typist who could do it
Xavier Felwitch: hehe
Torley Linden: i'm still waiting to see some Open Source viewers with a lot of accessibility features that catch on... but haven't really seen one yet (if someone knows, clue me in).
Cube Republic: theres a gadget my friend makes polgara that allows one avatar to control another so they walk/fly together as if they are holding hand; that may be some help in those circumstances
Ewan Mureaux: I was thinking about like a "national day" you know like talk like a pirate. How about a national do something different day in second life. I think it would encourage everyone to try something neww or lok from a different point of view, deffinately enlightening and possible entertaining, it would be open to every community in sl, get clubbers out scripting and scripters in clubs, have people try having a disability in SL™ for a day. Just see things from a new point of view and hopefully learn and become more undersating of our fellow residents
Louise Later: Linden has created a world--residents will help pioneer it
Torley Linden: i definitely love getting the word out about stuff that can broadly help many but is obscure/hard to find/not well understood
Blackie Dagger: got to run, bye Xavier, bye everyone. take care!
ShinIori319 Feichholz: Take care Blackie
Ranos Brumer: Great We are under attack by Marios's
Xavier Felwitch: okies laters blackie... see ya soon :)
Torley Linden: some Resis have celebrated Talk Like a Pirate Day in the past, does that count? ;D
Ewan Mureaux: thats so 06
Torley Linden: oh good grief *looks out towards the distance*
Cube Republic: lol
Ewan Mureaux: do you think its something linden types would support?
JetZep Zabelin: its mario
X-Flight, flight assist: All Go
Ewan Mureaux: encourage everyone to try a new thing
Cube Republic: are they particles or objects?
Torley Linden: particles emited from an object
ShinIori319 Feichholz: stupid giefers
Cube Republic: all gone
Cube Republic: griefing is so old school now lol
Xavier Felwitch: yay.... typical :(
Ewan Mureaux: be a furry, try and build something, ummm leave welcome centers and see the rest of the world etc etc
Polgara Paine: not so old school
Master Nestler: i think people that grief play xbox too much
JetZep Zabelin: greifing is way to get shut down
Torley Linden: i think that sort of goodwill is what our Community Team would be into, Ewan... i really like having different viewpoints and experimenting with perspectives here
ShinIori319 Feichholz hopes so
Ewan Mureaux: its all encompassing
Torley Linden: (and oops, i mentioned talk like a pirate as well, missed that earlier)
Ewan Mureaux: even for the "alternative" communities
Master Nestler: hey torley is it possible to have a private island that is smaller then 65536sqm
Torley Linden: Master, no... each and all regions are the same size.
ShinIori319 Feichholz: A parcel
Louise Later: I am going to start teaching an Ethical class in SL--Ewan
Torley Linden: but, if you already own an island, you can purchase OpenSpaces which are the same size but less dense
Pandora Wrigglesworth: Why do people grief? Instead, wouldn't it be better if people went around anonymously and spontaneously making people happy? There could be all kinds of vigilante happy-making stunts that they could pull.
Ranos Brumer: I agree Pandora.
ShinIori319 Feichholz: Torley, there's some software called "OpenSim", is it possible to attach an Opensim into SL grid?
Torley Linden: Pandora, oh, there's all sorts of interesting/frightening psychological answers to that. i think it's a shame when people have advanced technology that most of the world doesn't, and does ill :(
Louise Later: Experiencing the world even from the other gender is mind opening
Polgara Paine: That would never cross some people's minds, but it's a wonderful idea
Xavier Felwitch: its one of those questions thats hard to answer
Cube Republic: i think focussing their energies into more imaginative past times would be more productive
Torley Linden: Shinlori319, that's conducive with the AWG's aims i believe ;D
Xavier Felwitch: ohh torley have you done a vid on how to combat greifing? :)
Torley Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Architecture_Working_Group
Master Nestler: lol
Louise Later: And NCI offers an excellent class with tools
Louise Later: free1
Polgara Paine: Wheelies was griefed on Tuesday evening and we still don't have things back to normal
Ewan Mureaux: theres a vid on turning off particle rendering etc yes?
Torley Linden: Xavier, i am hoping to do a series related to that, and privacy, and reporting abuse. it was a planned collaboration with GTeam but is still "in the works" because the script needs to be approved, it's hard to schedule multiple people inworld at the same time...
Master Nestler: i got griefed for being a monkey
ShinIori319 Feichholz: Furry SIMS get griefed everyday
Torley Linden: that is one of the reasons why i prefer making video tutorials very agile, to prevent overhead bloat (nasty!)
Xavier Felwitch: yeppers shin
JetZep Zabelin: Apprentice mentors get targetted by greifers
Ewan Mureaux: was it a banana that griefed you? if so they kinda have a political reason
Xavier Felwitch: would be a worthwile series
Master Nestler: does torley have outtakes videos
Torley Linden: Master, i've released a couple of bloopers ;)
Cube Republic: theres something in the avastar about that this week
Master Nestler: lol
Polgara Paine: LOL
Cube Republic: i thought your sign in one was funny
Torley Linden: i totally had to do that, Cube, to show what that's like ;)
Torley Linden: and yes that's really what happens to me every day
Cube Republic: you never answered torley or perhaps missed it, have you seen the pink floyd wall thing on sl?
Torley Linden: i far prefer it to silence, tho... like that old adage about how you'd rather have your phone ringing than never taking a call
Xavier Felwitch: ohh theres bloopers? i must have missed that ^_^
Torley Linden: i haven't, Cube... just heard of it
Louise Later: also, when I try to keep up in chat it is hard to refer to what people said before
Master Nestler: is the bloopers on youtube yrt
Jerry Mordkamm: Griefers are simply imature and irresponsible. Some people never learn self respect or respect for others
Master Nestler: yet
Torley Linden: i like some of Pink Floyd's songs a lot
Torley Linden: Louise, even with scrolling up with chat history? i was at a CRAZY event, M Linden's Q&A with Teens in Second Life... and the chat scrolled by SO fast
Louise Later: Is there or could there be a protocal for refering to lines of chat
Torley Linden: there was a lot of chat spam, but still... it was maniacal
Cube Republic: its the most imaginative thing ive ever seen here, totally made me reflect on the whole building thing and what can be done with sl as a medium, totally refreshed me
Xavier Felwitch: hehe
Xavier Felwitch gave you Bear Request from Xavier Felwitch.
Torley Linden: i think the people who figure out ways to really bridge and bond written and spoken word, innovations in years to come, stand to benefit humanity a lot (i hope) and prosper tons
Master Nestler: is M Linden the only one with a one letter name
Cube Republic: yes bless them
Torley Linden: oh sure Xavier i'll give you my Linden Bear, if anyone else wants one, please say so in chat :)
Torley Linden: Master, not quite... there's Q Linden too
Xavier Felwitch: thanks :)
Pandora Wrigglesworth: Sometimes, when I am giving a presentation, the chat scrolls by so fast that I can't keep up and then people think I am ignoring them.
Cube Republic: please
Torley Linden: he's in engineering :)
Cube Republic: :)
Louise Later: Oh, PLEASE!
Ewan Mureaux: yes please
Master Nestler: im thinking of becoming a Linden in the future
Cube Republic: he can live in the huge cavern ive just made
Polgara Paine: Toreley, one of the problems here is not being able to use voice. It is very difficult for Louise to follow the conversation.
Cube Republic: lol
Xavier Felwitch accepted your inventory offer.
Master Nestler: theres a Linden Lab close to my area
Xavier Felwitch accepted your inventory offer.
Louise Later accepted your inventory offer.
Xavier Felwitch: thanks torley ^_^
Louise Later accepted your inventory offer.
Pandora Wrigglesworth: It would be nice if people could pick a color for their chat. It would make it easier to pick out different people in the chat log.
Louise Later: sign SO true! about the speed
ShinIori319 Feichholz: Indeed
Master Nestler: YAY! (yay!)
Ranos Brumer: Hey thats a good idea.
JetZep Zabelin: Hey Torley what do you think about the idea of colored text in chat, like mIRC? I mentioned it to Blue he liked it but I was wondering how we could make it a reality in an upcoming viewer
Cube Republic: torley as a matter of interest why is a region only split into 4 combinations of ground textures and has there been any talk of having more?
Louise Later: or a typable symbol
Ewan Mureaux accepted your inventory offer.
Ewan Mureaux accepted your inventory offer.
Torley Linden: Polgara: aye, it's never an easy thing; i've had deaf people request i not use voice... such a diversity of humans with conditions and special needs that need more support!
Ewan Mureaux: thanks mr T
Louise Later: like the first person in a chat is * for example
JetZep Zabelin: Colors not sent by the speaker, but set by the listener so its easier to identify who's saying what
Polgara Paine: I understand completely
Torley Linden: we had some UI prototypes before for chat colors... like mIRC as JetZep said...
Polgara Paine: but if there is no one who is deaf in the group,
Polgara Paine: voice chat should be accessible
Louise Later: not colors
Torley Linden: Ewan your profile pic totally cracks me up
Polgara Paine: when there is someone who is legally blind
Ewan Mureaux: ah yeah when i was talking to leo lol
Torley Linden: my own hearing is poor
Master Nestler: i have hearing problems also
Torley Linden: that is why i have a tendency to talk too loud, alas
Louise Later: Have the computer assign typable symbols to each person as they join the chat
Torley Linden: (because i can't hear myself well)
Cube Republic: we should have worn techno ear plugs
Cube Republic: lol
Louise Later: Piers Anthony has this in his book
Polgara Paine: I often use chat and talk
Torley Linden: i lost part of my hearing from loud techno music, so i really hope people will protect their hearing
Ranos Brumer: I gotta say this is a much different Office Hour then the last time I was here.
Polgara Paine: chat and text
Louise Later: and SL is bassed on Neil Steveson's book
Torley Linden: Ranos, how so?
Ewan Mureaux gave you Torley Debt Colector.
JetZep Zabelin: hehe i can relate, i got the same problem with hearing from too much loud music as a musician
Ranos Brumer: Last time the crowd was much larger
Ranos Brumer: and alot of people arguing
blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/23279
Ranos Brumer: probably 2 or 3 weeks ago
Torley Linden: oh yes, i remember that...
Torley Linden: it's always intriguing to have some of the same regulars and new faces :)
Torley Linden: i appreciate you coming to visit me
Master Nestler: torley what kind of graphic card do you have
Torley Linden: i have NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTS (640MB)
Xavier Felwitch: it was fun
Cube Republic: nice
Cube Republic: lol
Torley Linden: bought it on sale, ha ha! i'm a fanatical bargain hunter
ShinIori319 Feichholz: indeed
Master Nestler: i have a 8600GT
Torley Linden: i can't, in good conscience, recommend someone stuff that's overpriced
Cube Republic: me too
Master Nestler: i need to get a Quadcore
Jerry Mordkamm: Torley the Wood Workshop was a very good tip. I have made several textures with it that I like much better than any I've found:) Thanks!
Ewan Mureaux has cataract like old monitor cos my new one died
Cube Republic: i think filter forge is better than genetica if anyones on the look out for a texture workshop
Ranos Brumer: I have a 9800GTX 512mb
Ranos Brumer: makes the 8600 Gt look weak
Ranos Brumer: very
Torley Linden: i like Filter Forge LOTS... personally more than Genetica but each has their uses
Torley Linden: Wood Workshop just happened to be very convenient and standalone
Ranos Brumer: I've used Filter Forge
Torley Linden: you're SO welcome, Jerry!
Cube Republic: yes i agree, but i feel genetica looks quite plasticy
Master Nestler: might get a quadcore for christmas
Torley Linden: Filter Forge is primarily user content-created driven...
Trinity Coulter: hi Torley... is there a way to get your videos in lesser quality than the high quality, but playable in SL?
Torley Linden: since users make the filters
Cube Republic: true
Ewan Mureaux: i got genetica but its no fun on a 3 inch black and white steam powered monitor
Ranos Brumer: I plan on trying to make more of these.
Cube Republic: then half of sl sells them
Cube Republic: lol
Ranos Brumer: make it to more
Pandora Wrigglesworth: I have a 4D video card which is so fast that it can render into the future so I see things before they happen. It has a googlebyte of RAM, the highest amount of RAM before infinity. Also, it is made of candy.
Torley Linden: Trinity, i wonder if the blip.tv MP4 transcodes (which are lower-bandwidth) will work... are you having a problem with the high-quality ones?
Master Nestler: whos the richest avatar in SL
Torley Linden: LOL Pandora, that sounds DELICIOUS
Cube Republic: lol
Cube Republic: we are all rich
Torley Linden: we used to have a leaderboard that showed who had the most L$$$$
Torley Linden: but some were irked that it revealed those numbers
Trinity Coulter: Torley... not a huge problem, but they seem to cause lag in the viewer
Ewan Mureaux: Anshe Chung master
Ewan Mureaux: on paper
Cube Republic: lol
Xavier Felwitch: hehe
Torley Linden: Trinity, i think that's expected -- QuickTime playback will cause a slight (or bigger, on lower-end systems) FPS drop
Virtouse Lilienthal: hi there
Ranos Brumer: hmm condecs
Trinity Coulter: Torley... i tested some smaller videos also, and it seems that somehow the loading size affects the lag
Trinity Coulter: i'll try blip.tv tho
Cube Republic: we will laugh about lag one day as a thing of past
Ewan Mureaux: biggest landowners are (mainland) Gov. Linden, Preator Janus and shavenass rentals
Trinity Coulter: thanks :))
JetZep Zabelin: yeah with the new internet so called "the grid"
Pandora Wrigglesworth: I think there may be some kind of memory leak associated with transfer speed. That could interact with transfer of large video.
Cube Republic: where do all those leaked electrons go :(
JetZep Zabelin: they should call it "the matrix" XD
Torley Linden: Cube: i think there'll always be some sort of latency (it's natural to expect) but... what we can do today will look piddly poor compared to 5, 10 years into the future
Torley Linden: i can recall a time when having a 3D accelerator card was a big deal
Virtouse Lilienthal: Torley are you at LL aware of the memory leak for loading textures which can be used to a forced viewer crash?
Torley Linden: now, even very low-end systems have them
Ranos Brumer: the Old 3dfx cards
Virtouse Lilienthal: because it'll not stop using memory
Jerry Mordkamm: Where I live it will likely be 5 to 10 years after the the rest of you get it.
Torley Linden: Virtouse, no, but what's the Issue Tracker #? if it's reproducible we should be on it
Cube Republic: my friend paid $300 for a 1mb hard drive
Pandora Wrigglesworth: I remember when I had a 300 baud modem and I would download text files and be able to read them almost as fast as they downloaded.
Cube Republic: or something crazy small like that
Torley Linden: Cube, i remember similar prices too. good gosh.
Virtouse Lilienthal: Torley I don't know I didn't created one
Cube Republic: amiga
Louise Later: So, Torley--my idea of having the chat assign a type-able symbol to each users chat as they join the thread--who would I talk to about that
Ranos Brumer: hehe
Virtouse Lilienthal: I'll have a look at jira
JetZep Zabelin: a decent scanner costed more than a grand
Ranos Brumer: Or perhapes they can just give the lindens a specific color
Torley Linden: Louise, sounds like a good one for Benjamin Linden's Resident Experience hours :)
Louise Later: Then people could just type the symbol of the chat they were refering to oel
Louise Later: At 3 today!
JetZep Zabelin: thanks for the tip Torley, Im gonna see Benjamin
JetZep Zabelin: it needs to be easier to follow chat when it gets busy
Ewan Mureaux: ah teh JIRA i opened one about crashing when editing prim contents there was an old one about WindLight® ding it but you couldnt repro it Torley the number is VWR-8007
Torley Linden: Benjamin is Director of Resident Experience
Torley Linden: he heads the term here which focuses on that sort of thing... localization and accessibility are related concerns, always
Multi Chair Crate v1.0.42 (TORLEY MOD) whispers: Maximum number of chairs reached, please rez another Multi Chair table.
Louise Later: TY! :) what is JIRA?
Torley Linden: JIRA = "Public Issue Tracker", more info @ http://jira.secondlife.com
Louise Later: ty
Pandora Wrigglesworth: That's not a very accurate acronym, you realize.
Torley Linden: where we track bugs and stuff; i used to spend more time on it but my role has shifted, and more Lindens (including Quality Assurance i believe) will be coming aboard to help
Torley Linden: JIRA is playfully short for GOJIRA aka GODZILLA, funny story behind it
Torley Linden: it is an odd name <.< but then i could say that about myself
ShinIori319 Feichholz: hehe
Virtouse Lilienthal: Torley well there seem to be several open issues regarding that I bet it's there already. Just hard to find the right one
Virtouse Lilienthal: because actually it's reproducable
Torley Linden: oh joy Release Candidate 12 is out http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/07/03/now-available-optional-release-candidate-viewer-120-rc12/
Ewan Mureaux: alweays think of balaclavas and such and northern ireland when i read pjIRA
Louise Later: When the "save chat to text file" is checked on Edit perferences--is the old chat overwritten each time you log on?
JetZep Zabelin: I thought you were probably overloaded, you were like everywhere o.O
Xavier Felwitch: ohh cool :)
Torley Linden: Louise: no, it shouldn't be. it should continue logging at the end of the previous file.
PersephoneGea Clary: happy day too
Torley Linden: hahah JetZep, yes... :) i used to comment a lot there, and specifically for projects like WindLight
Torley Linden: i'm used to communicating a lot though... before JIRA i was on the forums a lot
PersephoneGea Clary: and .. happy day in Usa
Torley Linden: a day of Independence!
Pandora Wrigglesworth: I want LL to get around to finally fixing the transparency z-sort bug. And then tell me how they did because I've been wrestling with it months at my day-job and I can't figure it out.
PersephoneGea Clary: well... party?
PersephoneGea Clary: imao
jogo Abismo: hello
Louise Later: I have to go--RL doctor's appt. Thank you Torey and all for your help! IM me or Polgara about any suggestions or FYIs
Ewan Mureaux: independance day is sad for us scots cos we stil havent gotten rid of them :(
Pandora Wrigglesworth: Bye, Louise. ^^
Torley Linden: Pandora, i wish it were easier. reason why you don't see that in many games is pre-optimization and tricks used to hide them but... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-fighting it's a bigger problem not specific to SL
Louise Later: Bye, folks!
Xavier Felwitch: i gota say though the last lot of release candidates have been really stable ^_^
Torley Linden: take care Louise, be well!
Torley Linden: i hate, HATE the SmartHeap crashes
Torley Linden: i get those all too often, and i know many others have... those are terribly disruptive
Torley Linden: :(
Xavier Felwitch: ya they are
ShinIori319 Feichholz: X3
Torley Linden: internally we're planning to replace SmartHeap with another system... i don't know the latest details on that but...
Torley Linden: it can't happen soon enough!
JetZep Zabelin: I get those if I stay logged in for too long in busy places
Pandora Wrigglesworth: Torley, I know. I've been struggling with the z-sort issue in the application I'm coding at work. It's very frustrating. I think it's because alpha-enabled textures don't use the z-buffer in the same way.
Virtouse Lilienthal: Torley is SmartHeap a GC?
Xavier Felwitch: ah i had better log as well....nice to see you in world torley :)
Torley Linden: i'm glad to hear you have those experiences Pandora... many don't. you have a big advantage understanding.
Simon Walsh: hi torley, long tim,e
Torley Linden: good to see ya too Xavier!
Torley Linden: take care
Torley Linden: hiya Simon!
Ranos Brumer: Torley, not sure if anyone asked but whats the video this week?
JetZep Zabelin: watermelons XD
Torley Linden: Ranos, psst i'm ashamed but there may not be one, i've been so busy with other things (it's end of the quarter rush time!) that i haven't made it yet
Ranos Brumer: ahh
Ranos Brumer: Ok
Pandora Wrigglesworth: Yes, it's easy to complain about a bug that everyone can see and why wonder why nobody has fixed it. It's easy to mistakenly assume that it's because people are lazy when, in fact, it's often because the bug is amazingly difficult to fix and has the whole planet stumped as it is.
Torley Linden: Pandora: that was so excellently said
Cube Republic: ``take care everyone , my dinners ready :)
Torley Linden: have a good one Cube!
Ranos Brumer: oh ya
Ewan Mureaux: oh reminds me i have a video question how do you get those graphic text tips on the video i tried to use a transparent png with vegas but failed
Ranos Brumer: It might not even be a coding issue
ShinIori319 Feichholz: Torley, is the 25 groups restrictions going to be taken off someday?
Torley Linden: ah Ewan, i just use the Vegas text generator :) and fade them in and out...
Ranos Brumer: Might be a problem with direct x or open gl(whatever this uses)
Ewan Mureaux: ah k something new to try
Pandora Wrigglesworth: Yes, more than 25 groups please.
ColeMarie Soleil: WE NEED MORE GROUPS *flails*
Torley Linden: Shinlori319, i think a couple things need to happen first: (1) fixing group communication bugs because more groups will add to that, and (2) better design and communication of existing features. in many cases, Roles can serve as sub-groups but a lot of people still don't know this, and make new groups instead of roles within a group.
Torley Linden: so if both of those can be effectively and broadly addressed and we can scale, then it's safe to say we'd have more room for group #s
ShinIori319 Feichholz: ok
Torley Linden: and to put this in context, search http://jira.secondlife.com for "groups" to see how troublesome some have been
Simon Walsh: i am noticing teleporting is now throwing people how of their wheelchairs... i know people can tp in odd positions like riding a bike but can this effect on wheelchair users be resolved??
Virtouse Lilienthal: Torley, well I think this crash which is reproducable can be blamed on SmartHeap then
Pandora Wrigglesworth: It might be good to have different types of groups. For example, I have many groups that I only use so that I can build vendors in rental space and I don't need chat controls for that.
Ewan Mureaux: simonm use a loop animation on a timer
Torley Linden: that sounds bothersome, Simon! i haven't seen it yet myself... how you describe...
Ewan Mureaux: in the script, it fixes it
Ewan Mureaux: i get it with my thomas the tank engine av
Virtouse Lilienthal: Because if you have a lot of textures loading around you in a short time the memory won't be released in time
Virtouse Lilienthal: and leads to a crash
Virtouse Lilienthal: out of memory even
Torley Linden: Virtouse, i've likely experienced similar things...
Pandora Wrigglesworth: Teleporting often triggers flying. It's difficult to script around.
Simon Walsh: whenever i tp now, i arrive standing up
Torley Linden: when i visited the SL5B regions with so many textures, and crashed shotly thereafter with the SmartHeap error in my face!
Virtouse Lilienthal: Torley, what bothers me is actually that it is very, very to induce it
Torley Linden: very, very... easy?
JetZep Zabelin: Simon its most likely the chair's AO isnt activating after you arrive... need to redo the AO
Virtouse Lilienthal: well yeah
JetZep Zabelin: my R2D2 ao does the same thing, but other AO's dont
Ranos Brumer: hmms
Virtouse Lilienthal: Because it allocates new memory for every load of a texture
Simon Walsh: but for years this never happened
Virtouse Lilienthal: It's about time
JetZep Zabelin: hehe
Virtouse Lilienthal: I mentioned that the memory usage goes back a bit after some time
Virtouse Lilienthal: but it allocates very time an image is loaded a new chunk of memory
Jerry Mordkamm: I haven't had that problem, could it be that I have 1 gig of video ram?
Virtouse Lilienthal: even if the textures was loaded before
Virtouse Lilienthal: no good at all
Torley Linden: it's been great chatting with each and all of you. thanks for coming to my office hour, and again, i apologize that i had trouble in the beginning! i'm going to go for now but i'll be at the Community Enlightenment panel @ 3 PM in SL5B Linked ;) there's a mention on http://blog.secondlife.com ... take care!
Virtouse Lilienthal: that makes it easy to use this
Ewan Mureaux: its to do with loading the animation, some use effectively a pose and stay there like mostly in a chair its a seating pose, but if it played different anims on different inputs it would be ojk
Pandora Wrigglesworth: Torley, I have a gift for you.
ShinIori319 Feichholz: See ya, Torley
Virtouse Lilienthal: bye torley ;)
Ranos Brumer: Ok thanks Torley
Ewan Mureaux: if you can get into the script i can show you how to fix it
JetZep Zabelin: Take care Torley keep up the great work
Jerry Mordkamm: goodbye torley thanks for the visit.
Ewan Mureaux: nye torley and hope we see this kilt soon
Ewan Mureaux: bye*
Master Nestler: bye torley
Torley Linden: thank YOU so much :) hope to see you soon! thx for gift, Pandora! awwwe *waves and smiles*