User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2007 Sep 04

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Transcript of Zero Linden's office hours:

[13:01] Saijanai Kuhn: of course, I'd prefer to go the rouute of a prototyper for code, which can be applied to the particle system once the UI is owrked out, but that's just my attitude as someone trying to build my own thingie for scripting
[13:01] Dimitrio Lewis: I went to the supermarket today and they weren't wearing the green hats like they do in the tv commercial :(
[13:01] Kooky Jetaime: on a comple
[13:01] Kooky Jetaime: holy
[13:01] Kooky Jetaime: frigging
[13:01] Squirrel Wood: Hello Zero ^^
[13:01] Kooky Jetaime: helll
[13:01] Rex Cronon: this certainly doesn't look like heaven. we have grifers, lag, crashes, lost items...
[13:01] Revolution Perenti: hello zero :)
[13:01] Kooky Jetaime: Someone call Reuters, Zero's on time
[13:01] Saijanai Kuhn: I mean, what do you wnat your build thingie to look like?
[13:01] Dimitrio Lewis: hey Zero
[13:01] Tree Kyomoon: hi ho zero
[13:02] Saijanai Kuhn: Hey Zero
[13:02] Rex Cronon: hi zero
[13:02] Results Tiki: hello
[13:02] Zero Linden: ha!
[13:02] Zero Linden: but I'm still eating lunch....
[13:02] Kooky Jetaime: thats fine
[13:02] Kooky Jetaime: I eat and type all the time :)
[13:02] Squirrel Wood points Zero to before the hour begins. I need votes ^^
[13:02] Saijanai Kuhn contempates lunch
[13:02] Tree Kyomoon: mmm lunch
[13:02] Zero Linden: that reminds me - how come no one from Reuters has ever covered my office hours?!?!?!
[13:02] Kooky Jetaime: oh god here we go
[13:02] Kooky Jetaime: hahaha
[13:02] Kooky Jetaime: dunno
[13:03] Kooky Jetaime: Possibly too techy for the general media?
[13:03] Tree Kyomoon: no one cares about nerds I guess
[13:03] Squirrel Wood: Mayhaps they expect an invitation of some sort?
[13:03] Jarod Godel: You mean like Warren Ellis or someone?
[13:03] Revolution Perenti: lol yea
[13:03] Jarod Godel: Maybe if you had more emo-goth girls.
[13:03] Tree Kyomoon: they wont eat our meat, but they glue with our to speak
[13:03] Saijanai Kuhn: I've tried to get various in-wolrd grops to cover your office horus, but they're too busy having people talk aboutinane things or showing popular events like SL hockey to be bothered
[13:03] Kooky Jetaime: Ya know what Squirrel - I'll vote this one up
[13:03] Kooky Jetaime: I like that
[13:03] Kooky Jetaime: I think that is a very good idea
[13:03] Zero Linden: well good I say, let's keep it too techy for the masses....
[13:04] Zero Linden: :-)
[13:04] Wyn Galbraith: Please someone, save me from my RL!
[13:04] Kooky Jetaime: now i gots to log in
[13:04] Jarod Godel: Zero, anounce something big a fraudulent, that'll get people here
[13:04] Saijanai Kuhn: /em sighs. calling for building interface before the features of the interface are designed is a bad idea. You're depending on the LInden doing the interface to know what you want
[13:04] Jarod Godel: I'll do it for you.
[13:04] Revolution Perenti: ha wyn
[13:04] Saijanai Kuhn looks at communications window...
[13:04] Rex Cronon: hi win
[13:04] Jarod Godel: You hear it hear, at Zero's pffice hours: second life is closing down. Come thursday for more details!
[13:04] Tree Kyomoon: hey there wyn
[13:04] Jarod Godel: there.
[13:04] Kooky Jetaime: hahha
[13:04] Wyn Galbraith hellos everyone and tries to keep RL at bay.
[13:05] Rex Cronon: actually anybody that knows xml can change the communicate window
[13:05] Zero Linden: ooooooookay
[13:05] Zero Linden: well - first things first
[13:05] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[13:05] Tree Kyomoon uses a smouldering stick to poke at RL
[13:05] Zero Linden: I've been doing these for about six months now
[13:05] Saijanai Kuhn: only within limts of what is defined in window...
[13:05] Zero Linden: and I'd like to know what people think would make these sessions more effective or better or more fun....
[13:06] Kooky Jetaime: Squirrel - I'm tempted to subtask to build in a limiter that will hide "advanced" features of prim editing until you can demonstrate something... I'd love to quit using a script to make invisible prims.
[13:06] Rex Cronon: u can certainly remove things
[13:06] Kooky Jetaime: so then we can add 100% transparency into the editor
[13:06] Kooky Jetaime: not being at 7:30 on a thursday morning?
[13:06] Tree Kyomoon: the informality has been great, Zero
[13:06] Saijanai Kuhn: I've been happy (more or less) so far
[13:06] Tree Kyomoon: and the AM one is much better for the euro folks
[13:07] Revolution Perenti: yea kooky maybe there should be some parm in client code that does uid texture for 100% if they wont make it do 100% lol
[13:07] Squirrel Wood: Feel free to add subtasks and stuff :)
[13:07] Zero Linden: well, indeed, not being at 7:30am is one option - I'm wondering if once a week would be better
[13:07] SignpostMarv has a tendancy to multi-task: SignpostMarv Martin's dspeak v2.6 booting up.
[13:07] Jarod Godel: Zero, I really like it as is. I've learned a lot about how SL works with your O.H.'s, and I think you've gotten some good ideas during the time (maybe not from us, but the six months) that have been put into place...things we've needed for years.
[13:07] Kooky Jetaime: Revo - you think a debug option that you need to set to open up "advanced" building items would work?
[13:07] Jarod Godel: If possible: no changes
[13:07] Saijanai Kuhn: thought we already WERe meeting at 7:30 only once a week
[13:07] Saijanai Kuhn blinks disengenously
[13:07] Tree Kyomoon: 7:30 am is good please keep it
[13:08] Kooky Jetaime: it would definatly make sure that you know the client before you could do stuff that aer currently not permitted for whatever reason
[13:08] Kooky Jetaime: and I still can't see Sai
[13:08] Zero Linden looks at his watch, notes that is 1pm SLT
[13:08] Kooky Jetaime: where are ya brother?
[13:08] Tree Kyomoon: 1pm is good too please keep it too
[13:08] Kooky Jetaime: yea.. I like this one.. I've been awake a few hours Zero, I can think
[13:08] Saijanai Kuhn is on SL time
[13:08] Zero Linden: Seems like most people make it to both
[13:08] Revolution Perenti: 1pm does get prety late in europe zero
[13:08] Tree Kyomoon: Im in Nova Scotia, aka center of the universe
[13:08] Kooky Jetaime: Sai - I mean in the area.. I can't see you
[13:08] Zero Linden: so I wonder if I need both
[13:08] Wyn Galbraith: Time, is this a temporal shift?
[13:08] Kooky Jetaime: keep both
[13:08] SignpostMarv Martin: multiple office hours are better than one that attempts to cater to both
[13:09] Zero Linden: I could ping-pong one week 7:30am, one week 1pm
[13:09] Revolution Perenti: maybe more 10am time better cover both america and europe
[13:09] Kooky Jetaime: I'm just whining
[13:09] Kooky Jetaime: :)
[13:09] Wyn Galbraith: LOL Tree
[13:09] Zero Linden: or just keep 7:30am
[13:09] Zero Linden: or.....?
[13:09] Revolution Perenti: yea
[13:09] Zero Linden: or keep both
[13:09] Tree Kyomoon: no no keep both!
[13:09] Wyn Galbraith: Keep both!
[13:09] Revolution Perenti: hehe yea more the better :D
[13:09] Tree Kyomoon: we needs our zero times
[13:09] Results Tiki: both is better I think
[13:09] Squirrel Wood: I certainly cannot make both meetings
[13:09] Wyn Galbraith: You mean Our Zero Hour.
[13:09] Kooky Jetaime: the 7:30 hours are at like 10:30 for me, so I'm just to lazy to get outta bed
[13:09] Revolution Perenti: lol this is becoming discussing zero office hours meeting
[13:09] Wyn Galbraith adds an s
[13:10] Squirrel Wood: 7:30slt is the time when I leave work each day.
[13:10] Zero Linden: Uhm, yes it is as I asked for a meta-discussion... :-)
[13:10] Zero Linden: Okay - well, looks like ya'll want to keep both for now, so I will
[13:10] Rex Cronon: when is mono getting here?
[13:10] Wyn Galbraith cheers!
[13:10] Tree Kyomoon: yay
[13:10] Saijanai Kuhn cheers for some unknown reson
[13:10] Kooky Jetaime: ok
[13:10] Kooky Jetaime: I'll be back, I wanna see sai
[13:10] Wyn Galbraith: Zha!
[13:10] SignpostMarv Martin: "eventually"/"when it's done" :-P
[13:11] Kooky Jetaime: noone take my spot
[13:11] Revolution Perenti: also is there going to be more then the basic lsl code base
[13:11] Zero Linden: I'll check the schedule for the monorail... see when it is arriving at station Linden....
[13:11] Zha Ewry: Wow. Chair shorage ;-)
[13:11] Saijanai Kuhn feels blessed (or is it woried)
[13:11] Revolution Perenti: ie mono web extesions
[13:11] Kooky Jetaime: it takes a minute to go to 1000m and back
[13:11] Wyn Galbraith: She's baaaaaaaack...
[13:11] Saijanai Kuhn: hey Zha
[13:11] Revolution Perenti: so we can do prety much everything like we would in c++ with .net :D
[13:11] Rex Cronon: just like havok4, or is everybody waiting for 5?
[13:11] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero: is the implementaiton of mono going to be released to the public ?
[13:11] Kooky Jetaime: Theres sai :)
[13:11] Saijanai Kuhn waves to the cheering crowds
[13:11] Zero Linden: Well, mono is coming along and we are about a week or two from doing an internal build and test sequence....
[13:11] Zha Ewry: Hey all. Back from Vacation. Long time no see
[13:11] Kooky Jetaime: Hi Zha
[13:12] Rex Cronon: hi zha
[13:12] Zha Ewry: Well, except for Zero.. who I saw, I little more recently ;-)
[13:12] Revolution Perenti: hey Zha :)
[13:12] Saijanai Kuhn: ...royal family style
[13:12] Tree Kyomoon: hey there zha
[13:12] Zero Linden: if that goes well, it could be soon that there is a Het-Grid'd mono region. If it goes poorly, it could be weeks and weeks...
[13:12] SignpostMarv Martin: I ask because the OpenSim dev team have started putting in support for LSL
[13:12] Revolution Perenti: last i herd from insider from your office that there only be few selected regions with mono
[13:13] Zero Linden: this is a very very large code base change so getting it through a normal release engineering cycle is a major milestone with a fair bit of uncertaintly
[13:13] Revolution Perenti: this going to be a problem among us scripters
[13:13] Saijanai Kuhn: mono-specific sandboxes
[13:13] Kooky Jetaime: Whats the word on Havok 4?
[13:13] Saijanai Kuhn: which has been the plan sicne mono was first announced, from what I have read
[13:13] Zha Ewry: Well, Mono, should, in theory, by scripted independnt
[13:13] Squirrel Wood: Do as with voice. roll it out gradually :)
[13:13] Zha Ewry: Asside from the evil timing issues, which will no doubt crop up, if mono works right, you won't be able to tell
[13:14] Zero Linden: Once ready, mono will sit on a few sims on the main-grid for quite some time - we will really need to let scripters bang on it
[13:14] SignpostMarv Martin: hrm
[13:14] Tree Kyomoon: cant wait to bang on mono
[13:14] Saijanai Kuhn raises his hand to volunteer (would prefer to get paid for it, natch)
[13:14] Revolution Perenti: lol we still getting regualr maintence with voice becuase its buggy, lets thow all the bugs into release , windlight and mono and watch us cry lol
[13:14] Zero Linden: It will be open to all, Sai.
[13:14] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero, will there be any way to tell whther a sim is running mono from the LSL side of things, or will it be solely displayed in the user agent of llHTTPReqeust() calls
[13:14] Zha Ewry volunteers to rez 5000 prim scripted objects on it.
[13:14] Results Tiki: what is the approximate speed increase right now over the standard engine?
[13:15] Rex Cronon: that hammer of yours is going to get a good workout, jarod:)
[13:15] Zero Linden: There wasn't a plan to have any visible indication of the engine running a script
[13:15] Revolution Perenti: and this going to lower memory usage on the sim in the long run
[13:15] SignpostMarv Martin: e.g. Second Life LSL/VERSION vs Second Life Mono/VERSION
[13:15] Saijanai Kuhn: thought there would be a compile to mono option on existing scripts...
[13:15] Jarod Godel: Rex, smashing bugs?
[13:15] Revolution Perenti: and is there goign to be coding staders changes for example in mono with do Trim.something
[13:16] Revolution Perenti: i cant spell today lol
[13:16] Rex Cronon: mono bugs. that sounds strange
[13:16] Wyn Galbraith: Reminds me of the kissing sickness... Mono
[13:16] Zero Linden: I don't know the current benchmarks on speed up - some scripts get lots of speed up, others not so much
[13:16] Zero Linden: remember that all the function call delays are all still there and are the same
[13:17] Saijanai Kuhn: things that use lots of built-in delays shouldn't show any
[13:17] Results Tiki: good to know, thanks
[13:17] Kooky Jetaime: Zero - why are most of those delays in there?
[13:17] Zero Linden: There are not coding changes for mono (except perhaps for the removal of some long deprecated LSL functions)
[13:17] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero: it seems a bit odd that if an llHTTPReqeust() call comes from the mono VM that the user agent would say "LSL"
[13:17] Rex Cronon: are there any new functions that are going to be addes to LSL until mono gets here?
[13:17] Revolution Perenti: so is mono morealess a wrapper for lsl eqivent functions
[13:17] Zha Ewry: Mono is just a runtime
[13:17] Saijanai Kuhn: its a compile option
[13:18] Zero Linden: The mono compiler for LSL compiles the well known function names into calls into a module that encapsulates the available functions. In turn, those functions are generally implemented by calling out to the same
[13:18] Tree Kyomoon: so once mono is in place, we would be able to expect starting on a new scripting language for in world stuff?
[13:18] Zero Linden: exact functions that the LSL VM calls
[13:19] Saijanai Kuhn: Zero, my understanding is that there will be a compile-to-mono box just as there is a running box, that you check when y ou want to test mono. Is this correct?
[13:19] Zero Linden: As we've said, no, we will not be immediatly working on a new in-world scripting langage, nor extensions to LSL, no support for other Mono-compilable langages for qutie some time
[13:19] Revolution Perenti: like the recent new functions llStringTrim becuase mono does have its own ltrim and rtrim
[13:19] Tree Kyomoon is a squeaky wheel
[13:19] Zero Linden: This mono work gives us a big improvement on the execution of scripts, and is the right foundation for any of those style of enhancements
[13:19] Zero Linden: but the enhancements can wit
[13:19] Revolution Perenti: so are new functiosn being added in prep for rollout of mono :D
[13:20] Zero Linden: no, no new functions
[13:20] Saijanai Kuhn waves hand about compile option box question
[13:20] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero: will LSL in mono allow multi-dimensional arrays instead of just plain old lists ?
[13:20] Revolution Perenti: yea i want that
[13:20] Zero Linden: I'm curious - do people anticipate a need for scripts to know if they are mono or not, or for web servers via LLHTTPRequest to know?
[13:20] Results Tiki: my kingdom for an array
[13:20] Revolution Perenti: and foreach function and file_exist fucntion
[13:21] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero: It would be incorrect to state that a request is coming from the LSL VM when it's coming from Mono
[13:21] Ciaran Laval: foreach for sure
[13:21] SignpostMarv Martin: it's purely a matter of accuracy
[13:21] Zero Linden: read my non-moving-AV-lips: No new language features when we rol out mono.
[13:21] Saijanai Kuhn: if we want to see new LSL functions sooner, erather than later, they ywill have to be differentiated in some way
[13:21] Ciaran Laval: Awww
[13:21] Zero Linden: SMM - we don't say what VM a request is coming from now
[13:21] Zero Linden: :-)
[13:21] SignpostMarv Martin: well
[13:21] Dizzy Banjo: ok zero.. this may be a blatantly unscripty question - more fundamental architecture - but are there any plans to address the serious limitations on implementing in world audio in SL ?
[13:21] SignpostMarv Martin: you do imply it
[13:22] Saijanai Kuhn wave his hand about compile-to-mono box at bottom of script window...
[13:22] Rex Cronon: than how come the release candidate viewer has a new function "list llGetObjectDetails(key id, list params)" ?
[13:22] SignpostMarv Martin: by having "LSL" in the user agent
[13:22] SignpostMarv Martin: If mono is making the call, then the user agent *should* be mono
[13:22] Saijanai Kuhn: that's a new featur eof lsL, not of mono-LSL
[13:22] Results Tiki: Saijanai Kuhn: Zero, my understanding is that there will be a compile-to-mono box just as there is a running box, that you check when y ou want to test mono. Is this correct?
[13:22] Revolution Perenti: and there still plans for server code to be release under gpl , as you are added havok im sure you must have a work around for gpl release version :P
[13:23] Rex Cronon: brb...........
[13:23] Zero Linden: Ah - let's be clear - function additions - like llGetObjectDetails - are additions to the library of functions that interact with the world
[13:23] SignpostMarv Martin: Revolution: have a look at the work the OpenSim team are doing on physics
[13:24] Zero Linden: THOSE may be added as needed - but are just as available via the LSL VM or the Mono VM
[13:24] Revolution Perenti: lol i am actually writing my own sl but thats quite a while away yet
[13:24] Zero Linden: But those are very different than fundimental language changes, like arrays, or "foreach" or such
[13:24] Zero Linden: which requires liguistic changes, not just new library callable features
[13:25] Rex Cronon: i am back
[13:25] Results Tiki: Saijanai asked earlier and I would like to know as well; My understanding is that there will be a compile-to-mono box just as there is a running box, that you check when y ou want to test mono. Is this correct?
[13:26] Revolution Perenti: like in C foreach(strings) is faster then while loops and less memory too and better script performace
[13:26] Zero Linden: Yes, that is the current UI - but it will only be available when you are in a mono-supporting SIM
[13:26] Results Tiki: ty
[13:26] Zero Linden: and those scripts won't run elsewhere until we roll out mono across the grid
[13:26] SignpostMarv Martin: will "Tools > Recompile Scripts in Selection " give the option to compile under LSL or Mono ?
[13:26] Saijanai Kuhn: then I'd like to ask for a feature requrest specific to mono (makes no sense outside a mono-sim, but should just not work in that case)
[13:26] Saijanai Kuhn: a batch compile to mono function.
[13:26] Kooky Jetaime: I don't think (someone prove me wrong) that its necessary for a script to know which VM its on, LSL's original or Mono. Anything old-school is going to expect LSL, and get LSL via Mono since it is backwards compatable, Anything new is going to be built on Mono, and can take advantage of it since it was built on it. Updating an old-school script (read: recompiling) will have it compiled under Mono so as long as pure backwards compatability is maintained, its irrelevent.
[13:27] SignpostMarv Martin: Saijanai, that would be Tools > Recompile Scripts In Selection :-P
[13:27] Zero Linden: We were just talking about the UI for those menu options today, SMM, something like that
[13:27] Kooky Jetaime: since once Mono comes online and is grid wide, there will be no reason to compile to LSL
[13:27] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero: hard coded UI option, or extensible ?
[13:27] Saijanai Kuhn: thanks for answering the two questions.
[13:27] Zero Linden: KJ- that is indeed our exact plan and line of thought
[13:28] SignpostMarv Martin: Het-grid should allow for multiple versions of the mono VM running on a sim, yes ?
[13:28] Zero Linden: SMM "hard coded UI option" - for what?
[13:28] SignpostMarv Martin: ah
[13:28] Rex Cronon: i don't think that all the scripters also know other programming languages
[13:28] SignpostMarv Martin: what I mean is this:
[13:28] Saijanai Kuhn: I still (STILL) would like to see an LSL 3 option: new features implemented for LSL (or at least tested) before mono is grid-wide since that might take a year or more.
[13:28] Zero Linden: SMM - no het-grid allows multiple versions of the simulator on the same grid
[13:28] SignpostMarv Martin: hardcoded: Entries in the XUI file, no option to override
[13:28] Zero Linden: not multiple versions of libraries within a single sim
[13:29] SignpostMarv Martin: dynamic: The sim tells the viewer what VMs are available for scripts to be compiled under, and these are reflected in the UI
[13:29] Revolution Perenti: like the source too so much hardcoded like python
[13:29] Kooky Jetaime: Sai - I doubt it will be a year before Mono is grid wide
[13:29] Zero Linden: Sai - won't happen - if by new LSL3 options you mean linguistic changes
[13:29] Saijanai Kuhn: arrays and the like...
[13:29] Zero Linden: SMM - ah - no all all all hardcoded for now
[13:29] SignpostMarv Martin: dynamic once you get multi-lingual mono vm up and running ?
[13:29] Revolution Perenti: like looks for c:/ in source code
[13:30] Zero Linden: we just don't have enough use cases and experience to know how we'd handle or want to think about many VMs or their support
[13:30] Saijanai Kuhn: a feature to use an laternate xml file would be possible. They're working on revisign the XML UI code
[13:30] Revolution Perenti: when it should use ./../python/
[13:30] Kooky Jetaime: this is almost like the convo we had at Robins meeting... Do we want to dedicate resources to Fixing the inventory to stop it from going "missing", or do we want to dedicate the resources to giving you a way to fix the problem when stuff goes missing.
[13:31] Saijanai Kuhn: it might NEVER be an either/or proposition with that issue...
[13:31] Kooky Jetaime: (Such as local backups)
[13:31] Zero Linden: now, a long long ways back - I saw a question about sound from Dizzy Banjo
[13:31] Kooky Jetaime: they found a way to make it one :)
[13:31] Revolution Perenti: like i said at robs meeting we need backup solution :P cant be that hard setting up the right tables for backup per user, and maybe trulate the current and restore backup
[13:31] Results Tiki: local backups?
[13:31] Zero Linden: DB - I didn't quite understand what you were after there
[13:31] Kooky Jetaime: Dizzy - I was wondering, what kind of sound issue?
[13:31] Kooky Jetaime: the 10 second limit?
[13:31] SignpostMarv Martin: Results: saving stuff to disc
[13:31] Ciaran Laval: The backup option is easier to achieve, that's what they should focus on
[13:31] Dizzy Banjo: well
[13:31] SignpostMarv Martin: other than just textures
[13:32] Dizzy Banjo: im a media composer.. and im very interested in implementing interesting soundscapes and music in world...
[13:32] SignpostMarv Martin: would be nice to be able to log into :-P
[13:32] Dizzy Banjo: i dont mean stream
[13:32] Squirrel Wood: the 10s limit is there for people to keep them from uploading whole songs? (They still do it, albeit in chunks of 10s)
[13:32] SignpostMarv Martin: the 10 second sound limit sucks
[13:32] Kooky Jetaime: Dizzy - I'
[13:32] Dizzy Banjo: i mean upload
[13:32] SignpostMarv Martin: L$10 per 10 seconds seems to be more effective
[13:32] Kooky Jetaime: I'm guessing that the 10 second limit exists due to restricting asset size
[13:32] Revolution Perenti: well its done in the database not file based
[13:32] Dizzy Banjo: yeah i dont understand why 1. you guys done compress audio
[13:32] Tree Kyomoon: I agree, the hard limit does suck
[13:33] Kooky Jetaime: same reason you can't upload 3096x3096 images
[13:33] Saijanai Kuhn: Dizzy there's an enitre mailing list devoted to music issues in SL now. It was mentioned on the blog day or two ago. Very busy list
[13:33] Dizzy Banjo: i know
[13:33] SignpostMarv Martin: Saijanai: the mailing list sucks ass
[13:33] Saijanai Kuhn: why specifically?
[13:33] Kooky Jetaime: don't sugar coat it Signpost, tell us what you really think
[13:33] SignpostMarv Martin: the majority of us want a forum replacement :-P
[13:33] Wyn Galbraith: Like herding cats, it is.
[13:33] Zero Linden: Well - let's be constructive, please....
[13:33] Dizzy Banjo: but its not being discussed really .. most of the discussion is about music streaming
[13:34] Squirrel Wood: afaik all sounds are converted to ogg vorbis on uploading them
[13:34] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero: "suck": "Term of general disparagement, indicating the subject or situation has no redeeming qualities."
[13:34] Saijanai Kuhn: past a certain point, uploading a music file might as well be music streaming...
[13:34] Zero Linden: Dizzy, I don't think that SL has the bandwidth and architecture for really supporting sounds in the way you suggest
[13:34] SignpostMarv Martin: mailing lists are obsolete
[13:34] Tree Kyomoon: would be constructive to suggest not having a 10 second limit, but paying 10 lindens per 10 seconds is cool
[13:34] Dimitrio Lewis: obsolete?
[13:34] Saijanai Kuhn: someone mentioend that LOTR online has a MIDI playing option, that allows someone to perfrom via midi .
[13:35] Zero Linden: If you want to have a sound scape with, say 20 or 30, half hour sounds, mixed as the user moves through them, and perhaps under script control
[13:35] Kooky Jetaime: Midi rocks
[13:35] SignpostMarv Martin: do a search on the mailing list for the word "obsolete" :-P
[13:35] Zero Linden: that is a lot of computation and bandwidth
[13:35] Saijanai Kuhn: I think it is more peer-to-peer, but a broadcast of midi might be possible
[13:35] SignpostMarv Martin: you'll find my blurbs
[13:35] Zero Linden: especially if say 20 AVs are there
[13:35] SignpostMarv Martin: ah
[13:35] SignpostMarv Martin: re: midi
[13:35] SignpostMarv Martin finds cool link
[13:35] Dizzy Banjo: imyeah i can see that
[13:35] Kooky Jetaime: MIDI is very small, yet can be very nice .... even if it is obsolete
[13:35] Revolution Perenti: midi accent lol
[13:35] Tree Kyomoon: yeah midi would be fine, theres lots of great midi sounds and no it is not obselete
[13:35] Dizzy Banjo: i think midi would be interesting too
[13:36] Squirrel Wood: Well, I for once would like to see the SL client use the available bandwidth. 16 mbit in my case. :p
[13:36] SignpostMarv Martin: MIDI is not obsolete Kooky
[13:36] Zero Linden: We aren't trying to build a generic media processor - since, well, I don't think we can!
[13:36] Saijanai Kuhn would prefer a QT midi implementation instead of classical MIDI: 256 micro-tones per 256 semi-tones
[13:36] Revolution Perenti: aint used that while in my studio
[13:36] Dirk's Dance Bracelet: OWENIMATIONS DUO DANCER v3.4 -- type /99help for instructions
[13:36] SignpostMarv Martin: found it
[13:36] SignpostMarv Martin:
[13:36] Ciaran Laval: Zero you can't use the can't word!
[13:36] Kooky Jetaime: I mean, look at these piano's around the grid.. put full songs in via MIDI, and its smaller than a 10 sec wave clip in some cases
[13:36] Revolution Perenti: but being quicktime sdk used in sl , im sure there could be a way to get midi too
[13:36] Zero Linden: "can't"?
[13:36] Tree Kyomoon: would be cool if SL had a built in synth that we could access via scripts
[13:36] Squirrel Wood: Procedural textures ^^
[13:36] Dizzy Banjo: it just seems that the audio side of SL has been parked sometimes.. ( apart from voice of course - whcih in itself is inteeresting for music )
[13:36] SignpostMarv Martin: kkrieger is a full blown FPS
[13:36] Kooky Jetaime: Sorry Sign - misread you
[13:36] Saijanai Kuhn: makes world music instead of just even-tempered piano music, possible.
[13:36] SignpostMarv Martin: the binary is less than 100k
[13:37] Results Tiki: Backups to disk sound more useful to me.
[13:37] SignpostMarv Martin: the sound is produced via a continual MIDI stream
[13:37] Ciaran Laval: Noo everything can be achieved here, maybe.
[13:37] SignpostMarv Martin: also,
[13:37] Rex Cronon: we could make a scripted piano:)
[13:37] Zero Linden: Ahem
[13:37] SignpostMarv Martin: note that the Ogg Vorbis specification has support for MIDI in it somewhere
[13:37] Tree Kyomoon: exactly rex
[13:37] Kooky Jetaime: Results- that was the topic at Robins
[13:37] Zero Linden: There is a scripted piano in SL, actually.... but....
[13:37] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero:
[13:37] Kooky Jetaime: there are a few musical instruments
[13:37] Saijanai Kuhn: QT midi is well defined. even on linux, it should be possible to implemnt the MIDI spec. its not that far off from standard MIDI
[13:37] Zero Linden: And you really really don't want to get me on the discussion of MIDI...
[13:37] SignpostMarv Martin: you know what would MIDI would be really good for ?
[13:37] Tree Kyomoon: does it use midi?
[13:37] Kooky Jetaime: and if you could use MIDI for them, I think they would be far more popular
[13:38] Zero Linden: ...I was once head of the MIDI techincal comittee, fwiw
[13:38] SignpostMarv Martin: sweet
[13:38] Tree Kyomoon: really? does Zero not like midi?
[13:38] Kooky Jetaime: less Client lag to play songs (since the filesizes are so different), and any system can do MIDI
[13:38] Zero Linden: And I have a degree in music and computers.....
[13:38] SignpostMarv Martin: MIDI would make the Hyper Cello much easier to compose for
[13:38] Zero Linden: whch is only to say that this stuff
[13:38] SignpostMarv Martin demonstrates how much of a pain in the ass it is
[13:38] Zero Linden: is too dead to my heart to get into it!
[13:38] Zero Linden: *dear*
[13:38] Zero Linden: *dear*
[13:39] Zero Linden can't believe he mistyped that!
[13:39] Saijanai Kuhn: LOL. Was farid you burned out on it...
[13:39] Tree Kyomoon: zero do you ever meet ray kurzweil?
[13:39] Dizzy Banjo: lol
[13:39] Zero Linden: Yes, Tree I have
[13:39] Kooky Jetaime: So you LIKE MIDI
[13:39] Ciaran Laval: Freudian slip there Zero :P
[13:39] Tree Kyomoon: sweet!
[13:39] Tree Kyomoon: zero is suddenly even cooler in my eyes
[13:39] Dizzy Banjo: so .. effectively .. the possibility of pushing the 10s limit.. is nil ?
[13:39] Zero Linden: And the best 30min of my college education was spent with John Cage
[13:39] SignpostMarv Martin:
[13:39] Saijanai Kuhn: wow
[13:39] SignpostMarv Martin: read that
[13:39] Tree Kyomoon: aww man that is sooo cool
[13:40] SignpostMarv Martin: 128 lines of data
[13:40] Saijanai Kuhn: The real issue is when you try to coordinate voice with midi, which is what QT does, but that goes back to LInux compatibility issues
[13:40] SignpostMarv Martin: takes a substantial amount of time to parse
[13:40] Tree Kyomoon: would be so much fun to be able to upload midi files into SL
[13:40] SignpostMarv Martin: sounds good though- anyone mind if I play ? :-P
[13:40] Kooky Jetaime: Sign - what... .0125 seconds?
[13:40] Kooky Jetaime: an eternity
[13:40] Zero Linden: Well- I think that MIDI has many perfectly good uses --- it certainly, for all its techinical flaws, is wildly commercially and musically successful
[13:41] SignpostMarv Martin: Kooky: 2 minutes
[13:41] Kooky Jetaime: Ok, I'm lost somewhere
[13:41] SignpostMarv Martin: then there's the matter of the notes having to be downloaded from the asset server
[13:41] Hyper-Cello Composer Edition v3 (HUD): Playing Score 'VOICES by Yoko Kanno, transcribed by SignpostMarv Martin'
[13:41] Dizzy Banjo: Koji Kondo certainly managed, working with that level of musical complexity
[13:41] SignpostMarv Martin: until each and every note has been downloaded,
[13:41] SignpostMarv Martin: the song will kinda suck
[13:41] SignpostMarv Martin: the use of MIDI will avoid the suck
[13:41] Dizzy Banjo: even that would transform the musical landscape of SL
[13:41] Kooky Jetaime: oh ok
[13:42] Tree Kyomoon imagines "the entertainer" playing on a midi piano on my land
[13:42] Kooky Jetaime isn't lost anymore
[13:42] Saijanai Kuhn: QT MIDI has its own sythensizer built in. No need to download voices.
[13:42] Saijanai Kuhn: But again, its the compatbility with LInux issue
[13:42] Kooky Jetaime: Midi rocks.. I used to have a midi collection
[13:42] SignpostMarv Martin: MIDI playback doesn't have to be through QT
[13:42] Kooky Jetaime: Signpost - Your almost working with MODs right now doing this
[13:42] Saijanai Kuhn: sure, but you need to use a standardized synthe3zsizer
[13:42] SignpostMarv Martin: Kooky: MIDI with embeded audio snippets ?
[13:43] Zero Linden: Well, it rocks for certain kinds of things - but you don't get identical reproduction on each computer
[13:43] Squirrel Wood: mod/xm support would be cool too :)
[13:43] Kooky Jetaime: Maybe.. I don't know my muscial formats
[13:43] Kooky Jetaime: But I think that would be a fair assessment
[13:43] Zero Linden: since the voices of "standard midi" are defined by name "electric piano", which could mean quite a number of different things
[13:43] Zero Linden: on different systems
[13:43] Tree Kyomoon: depends on the local computer's synth right?
[13:43] Dizzy Banjo: i think it would be a great thing to introduce even though its different yes
[13:43] Squirrel Wood: fmod doesn't really care what sound format you throw at it. It just plays the stuff
[13:43] Tree Kyomoon: thats why you should put a synth into SL
[13:43] Kooky Jetaime: I used to have a few mods that were entire near stereo quality sound, but only say 400-600k
[13:43] Zero Linden: and, there isn't much support for things like control of reverb, or EQ, or other timbreal parameters
[13:44] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero: Would you prefer to have a "live" instrumental performance sound kinda cheesy one one persons' computer,
[13:44] Saijanai Kuhn: is there an opnsource synth?
[13:44] Saijanai Kuhn: of that level that is?
[13:44] SignpostMarv Martin: or have it sound screwy on everyone's cos the sound clips are downloading out of order ?
[13:44] Zero Linden: Well, right, but putting the synth into SL (presumably nto the viewer)
[13:44] Wyn Galbraith: Sounds pretty good to me.
[13:44] Zero Linden: then begs the question of which - and tool chains, etc....
[13:44] Dimitrio Lewis: Sound is really overlooked in SL. Visuals are only half the story.
[13:44] SignpostMarv Martin: If SL had MIDI support,
[13:44] Tree Kyomoon: or mabey, you could let people add a synth to their region
[13:44] SignpostMarv Martin: those of us with decent MIDI devices,
[13:44] Saijanai Kuhn: but WHICH MIDI support?
[13:44] Dizzy Banjo: absolutely agree dimitrio
[13:45] SignpostMarv Martin: and those of us with kick ass MIDI devices,
[13:45] Tree Kyomoon: then they could pick and be responsible for it
[13:45] Dizzy Banjo: i think midi would be interesting.. if experimental..
[13:45] SignpostMarv Martin: should be able to plug it in, configure SL to use that device for output, and enjoy an improved listening experience
[13:45] Kooky Jetaime: but lets just pjira it for future reference
[13:45] Kooky Jetaime: and not try to "add" right now :)
[13:45] SignpostMarv Martin: MIDI support would kick ass for collaborative musical events
[13:45] Wyn Galbraith: Good idea.
[13:46] Saijanai Kuhn: with a better API and GUI, this stuff wouldn't require much of a jira to imlement anyway, save for LSL support
[13:46] Tree Kyomoon: one thing about midi is, you wouldnt have the same delays between players that you do with analog sound, so "jamming" would be more practical.
[13:46] SignpostMarv Martin: Saijanai: what LSL support ?
[13:46] Saijanai Kuhn: LSL support requires approved APIs
[13:46] SignpostMarv Martin: do you mean new functions ?
[13:46] Zero Linden: Ha, you think people get worked up over the delays in MIDI when devices are plugged together on the same stage... imagine what it would be when relayed via SL....
[13:46] Saijanai Kuhn: right.
[13:47] SignpostMarv Martin: you'd only need new functions for MIDI-specific applications
[13:47] SignpostMarv Martin: for general playing, the existing functions should be sufficient
[13:47] Dizzy Banjo: but until some form of more integrated way of delivering actual audio in world comes along i cant see how SL will compete with .. for instance MMORPGs.. not that im comparing them in content.. but many people do..
[13:47] Saijanai Kuhn: or for the client able to accept a MIDI scream in the first place, which isn't LSL, but still requires server-side support
[13:47] Saijanai Kuhn: Unless you go with peer-to-pper, which the client doesn't supprt
[13:47] Tree Kyomoon: depends on how you implemented, i guess, but yes Zero you are right in the traditional sense
[13:47] SignpostMarv Martin: would be sweet to be able to specifiy a custom sound pack though
[13:47] Dizzy Banjo: im itching to do some really immersive in world soundscapes.. which arnt broken up and disjointed by syncing problems
[13:48] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[13:48] SignpostMarv Martin: upload voice clips as a MIDI sound pack, use a MIDI file, add an LSL call for specifiyng a custom sound pack,
[13:48] Zero Linden: SMM - I don't think there is any accepted standard for "sound pack"
[13:48] SignpostMarv Martin: ah
[13:48] SignpostMarv Martin: well you could use a list of asset IDs :-P
[13:48] Saijanai Kuhn wants garageband instruments as the standard!!!!
[13:48] SignpostMarv Martin: the point being
[13:48] Saijanai Kuhn: ;-)
[13:49] Zero Linden: so making sure that your cello sonata doesn't get played on a picolo is till, alas, a problem
[13:49] SignpostMarv Martin: MIDI + custom sound pack = gesture goodness
[13:49] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero: That wouldn't matter :-P
[13:49] Kooky Jetaime: as if Gestures arn't annoying enoug
[13:49] Zero Linden: Sai. - well, if you'd all go out and purchase Macintoshes then SURE!
[13:49] SignpostMarv Martin: that goes against the whole point of MIDI
[13:49] SignpostMarv Martin: MIDI is just instructions
[13:49] SignpostMarv Martin: how it sounds is up to the end user
[13:49] Saijanai Kuhn: the comoser has an intent...
[13:49] Zero Linden: SMM- it wouldn't matter for you - I but I bet it does for many people and many users of MIDI
[13:49] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[13:50] Kooky Jetaime: Sign - isn't MIDI the equivilent of sheet music?
[13:50] SignpostMarv Martin: basically
[13:50] Dizzy Banjo: no
[13:50] Dizzy Banjo: lol
[13:50] SignpostMarv Martin: you can specify isntruments on sheet music :-P
[13:50] Saijanai Kuhn: yes and no...
[13:50] SignpostMarv Martin: doesn't mean they have to be played on that instrument
[13:50] SignpostMarv Martin: and it also doesn't say whether or not you can plug some effects peddles in
[13:51] Zero Linden: Well, yes and no, SMM - even if traditional sheet music - Thinks written for Cello can't be played on Timpani without a muscian to interpret
[13:51] Kooky Jetaime: doesn't midi have a request instrument, or is it purely whatever the player/user says?
[13:51] Zero Linden: and there are plent of notations that rely on human interpretation in a peice specific context....
[13:51] Dizzy Banjo: yeh
[13:51] Zero Linden: (did I mention that notation was one of my areas of interest...)
[13:51] Kooky Jetaime: so its Mechanical Soundpoint
[13:51] Kooky Jetaime: er Mechanical Sheetmusic
[13:51] Dizzy Banjo: i think the midi thing isnt related to what i was talking about tbh
[13:51] Kooky Jetaime: it can play it but it lacks the emotion of a human player
[13:52] Kooky Jetaime: the nuances
[13:52] Saijanai Kuhn: eh, there's advanced notations that do a pretty good job, but their specific to a specific player on a specific instrument
[13:52] Kooky Jetaime: sorry Dizzy, we shanghai'ed your question :)
[13:52] Tree Kyomoon made his own music technology software years ago
[13:52] SignpostMarv Martin: llMIDISoundPack(MIDI_FILE,"83b3987f-9520-4275-8efe-3ac13dd3f635",MIDI_NOTE_G2,"66864f3c-e095-d9c8-058d-d6575e6ed1b8",MIDI_NOTE_A3,"79e7c4ad-3361-4736-bced-1f72e6c3dbd4");
[13:52] Tree Kyomoon: speaking of notation :)
[13:52] Dirk Talamasca: It has no balls. Sounds liuke a Fisher Price childrens toy
[13:53] Dizzy Banjo: do you think midi playback would be from a point source.. in world ?
[13:53] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero:if you want your MIDI music to sound a specific way, then you should do something like that
[13:53] Dizzy Banjo: or a stereo flat image.. no matter where the avatar walked..
[13:53] SignpostMarv Martin: Dizzy: MIDI music playback should be handled the same way current sound clip playback is handled
[13:53] Dizzy Banjo: id agree
[13:54] Kooky Jetaime: yep
[13:54] SignpostMarv Martin: omnipresence is teh suxxorz
[13:54] Zero Linden: SMM - that doesn't work - there is no definition of "sound pack" - I have wave table synth - you have an FM based synth - no way to convert instrument definitions
[13:54] Saijanai Kuhn: not without a defined interface, at least...
[13:54] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero: Wouldn't an LSL function be able to instruct the SL Midi Synth to "play this asset when this note is triggered" ?
[13:55] Saijanai Kuhn: and that's just more server-side busyness, unless it were cached on the client
[13:55] Squirrel Wood: On current windows systems you should have the M$ software synth at your command.
[13:55] Squirrel Wood: or software wavetable stuff.
[13:55] Zero Linden: SMM - iff the synth was a sampler - and even then, there is much about a sample
[13:55] Saijanai Kuhn: QT is better, as far as I know, but LInux can't use it
[13:55] Zero Linden: that needs to be known about for a sampler to work well --- base pitch, loop points, db equivalents
[13:56] Zero Linden: and that still ignores issues like reverb, EQ, stereo placement, etc
[13:56] Kooky Jetaime shuts up since he isn't a music major
[13:56] SignpostMarv Martin: what I'm suggesting would just be to have the SL MIDI synth be really dumb.
[13:56] Squirrel Wood: llSetMidiInstrument("electric piano",<insert-key-here>); ?
[13:56] Kooky Jetaime: I just play by ear.. heh
[13:56] Tree Kyomoon: still, being able to upload midi files and attach them to objects would be nice
[13:56] Saijanai Kuhn: openAL may handle some of this, but you'd need to do some serious cross-patform stnadardization to get it to work on all three
[13:56] Zero Linden: So, while yes it could be made to work, but it may not be very useful except for a rather limited set of uses
[13:56] Kooky Jetaime: ... again this seems to be getting into adding new LSL functions........
[13:56] Tree Kyomoon: then you could avoid the 10 second sound issue a bit
[13:56] Dizzy Banjo: ok.. a different approach...
[13:57] SignpostMarv Martin wonders if we should have MIDI asset uploads or 64kb notecards :-P
[13:57] Kooky Jetaime: Nothing like spending an hour discussing how to do things that involve doing things that will not be done.
[13:57] Zero Linden: I have seen some interesting declartive, algorithmic music systems for defining instrucments and processing (into which you'd feed a MIDI stream for control)
[13:57] Tree Kyomoon shudders to think of all the cheezy websites out there with midi "background" music
[13:57] Zero Linden: that mgith be incorporatable into the SL client
[13:57] Kooky Jetaime: Tree, I have MIDI background music so shush
[13:57] Zero Linden: but that is sort of speculative for now
[13:57] Dizzy Banjo: ive had a bit of a chat with some of the guys at vivox.. who mentioned they made an in world "voice conference phone"
[13:58] Tree Kyomoon: lol
[13:58] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero: Anything that would allow more expressive instrument support would rawk
[13:58] Dizzy Banjo: hence.. streaming a voice channel through an object
[13:58] Squirrel Wood: ActiveWorlds extensively uses midi music....
[13:58] Rex Cronon: so how is it decided what new functions are added to the LSL? and how is it decided what parameters will those functions take?
[13:58] Zero Linden: Another thing to think about would be a more general facility
[13:58] Kooky Jetaime: I'm curious and will have to see if QT can handle MODs
[13:58] Squirrel Wood: gets annoying when you have ten objects within hearing range and each spams its own midi
[13:58] Saijanai Kuhn: again, once a better GUI and plug-in API is set up, this stuff could be done without much, if any, support from the LIndens
[13:58] Tree Kyomoon: yeah text to speech in SL too...that would rawk
[13:58] Saijanai Kuhn: same thing
[13:58] Ciaran Laval: lol Squirrel good point
[13:58] Dimitrio Lewis: that was one of the things I liked about AW, hearing that 'losing my religion' song everywhere
[13:58] Dizzy Banjo: would that be a way to create longer more immersive audio within SL ?
[13:59] Zero Linden: for example, what about being able to coordinate streams of data from sim to viewer ? a MIDI stream would be one such stream, but so could, perhaps other channels of info ----
[13:59] Dizzy Banjo: would it be possible to direct the voice stream at a hosted file ?
[13:59] Zero Linden: might be a more open way to handle this... but might be too general to make work....
[13:59] Zero Linden: Dizzy - is your goal to have a long playing localaized sound source?
[13:59] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero: Have you had a look at the Ogg encapsulation format spec ?
[13:59] Dizzy Banjo: yes
[13:59] Kooky Jetaime: Dizzy - on that note, that gets into putting HTML on a prim face.. and when you can do that, shazam, all this becomes possible
[13:59] Zero Linden: SMM - yes, we have
[14:00] Dizzy Banjo: hm interesting
[14:00] SignpostMarv Martin: for the purposes of dicking around with streaming different kinds of data ?
[14:00] Kooky Jetaime: Speaking of actually.. Zero - has any work/progress been done/made on HTML on a prim face?
[14:00] Kooky Jetaime: cuz wasn't that one of the things thats been mentioned in the past
[14:01] Squirrel Wood: Mmm. Procedural Textures ^^
[14:01] Dizzy Banjo is excited by that.. lol
[14:01] Squirrel Wood: transmit formulas and have the client assemble the texture ^^
[14:01] Zero Linden: AHA - wikipedia to the rescue
[14:01] Saijanai Kuhn wans svg on a prim
[14:01] Zero Linden: I was looking at ChucK
[14:01] Tree Kyomoon looks for a jira on text to speech
[14:01] Kooky Jetaime: Ok, share share Zero
[14:01] SignpostMarv Martin: Squirrel: That would require substantial CPU resources
[14:01] Zero Linden: a very interesting system that
[14:01] SignpostMarv Martin: 15k prims, lots of sides
[14:01] Rex Cronon: i am with u saijanai. yes to svg:)
[14:01] SignpostMarv Martin: each with procedural formulas ?
[14:02] Zero Linden: seemed to have the right properties for a more sophisticated audio processing system to put in the viewer
[14:02] Zero Linden: and control from the sims
[14:02] Zero Linden:
[14:02] Kooky Jetaime: interesting
[14:02] SignpostMarv Martin: 120000 procedural textures per sim
[14:02] Zero Linden: but really, it is all just wild speculation and dreaming!
[14:02] SignpostMarv Martin does some math
[14:02] Saijanai Kuhn: procedural textures defined in the OpenGL assembler would be decent. MOdled on Apple's ababy version found in QC. If its safe enough for QC, it should be safe enough for the SL client
[14:03] SignpostMarv Martin: 3 million procedural textures at 512m draw distance
[14:03] Kooky Jetaime: zEro, if we didn't wildly speculate, what fun would it be ;)
[14:03] Kooky Jetaime: SMM - go to Crash Me and have fun
[14:03] SignpostMarv Martin: never mind what happens when you hack the max draw distance past 512m
[14:03] Zero Linden: well - you see, I don't think we have the technology for assembling OpenGL assembler fragments into renderable scenes with any
[14:03] Zero Linden: sense of proper protection from crashing, or resouce allocation
[14:03] Zero Linden: that sort of thing hasn't been done
[14:03] SignpostMarv Martin: 2 kilometer draw distance anyone ?
[14:04] Zero Linden: ditto, really, for any audio processing
[14:04] Dizzy Banjo: lol
[14:04] SignpostMarv Martin: I've done 4km
[14:04] SignpostMarv Martin: slowed to a crawl
[14:04] SignpostMarv Martin: 0m draw distance was insteresting though
[14:04] Dizzy Banjo: isnt "doing stuff that hasnt been done" the essence of Linden Labs ?
[14:04] Dizzy Banjo: ;)
[14:04] SignpostMarv Martin: </ramble>
[14:04] Dizzy Banjo: lol
[14:04] Saijanai Kuhn: The baby assembler unsed in QC appears to be reasonably safe to base a SL version on. Its limited in what it can do, but it can do a LOT
[14:04] Zero Linden: KJ - indeed, I love to wildly speculate, so long as it is clear to all that that is what I'm doing!
[14:04] Squirrel Wood: give me a client that doesn't throttle its download bandwidth to 1500kbps max
[14:05] Zero Linden: DB - it is indeed, but there is *alot* that hasn't been done to do!
[14:05] Dizzy Banjo: lol
[14:05] Kooky Jetaime: SMM - have you hacked the transparency field with any success?
[14:05] SignpostMarv Martin: hrm ?
[14:05] Zero Linden: Sai - I've used QC in my region teraforming tool - Backhoe (anyone here used it?)
[14:05] SignpostMarv Martin: 0m draw distance video:
[14:06] SignpostMarv Martin: (pretty much all my videos are for bugs :-P )
[14:06] Saijanai Kuhn was serious about teh SVG on a prim idea. only allow local host access and define a prim's inventory as local host
[14:06] Zero Linden: It is truely cool to be able to plug up fragments of OpenGL shader code, both pre-built and hand written, and watch it all render
[14:06] Saijanai Kuhn: not Backhoe, no.
[14:06] Zero Linden: BUT - doing this for developer built patches, vs. dynamically assembled from multiple users in a single scene are two very different things
[14:07] Wyn Galbraith could use a backhoe.
[14:07] SignpostMarv Martin: backhoe is teh suxxorz
[14:07] Saijanai Kuhn: perhaps an approved library of such textures could be allowed?
[14:07] Zero Linden: and really, you don't want your SL render to just go blank when the assembled mass fails for some reason
[14:07] Zero Linden:
[14:07] SignpostMarv Martin:
[14:07] Zero Linden: all the land teraforming is done with QC patches!
[14:07] Zero Linden: which is why it will never be ported to Windows!
[14:08] Wyn Galbraith: Can I get a Mac with that? :D
[14:08] Zero Linden: (Backhoe is a personal project, BTW, not a Linden tool)
[14:08] SignpostMarv Martin: i should probably change the post slug to be shorter :-P
[14:08] Kooky Jetaime: whats backhoe?
[14:08] SignpostMarv Martin: Mac-only terraforming tool
[14:08] Kooky Jetaime: forget I said that
[14:08] SignpostMarv Martin: only does one region at a time
[14:08] Kooky Jetaime: I see the link
[14:08] Ciaran Laval: Right I have to 0121, cya guys
[14:09] SignpostMarv Martin: not really suitable for terraforming an estate all at once
[14:09] SignpostMarv Martin: Photoshop unfortunately does a better job :-P
[14:09] Zero Linden: SMM - it is fully open source - extend it!
[14:09] Squirrel Wood: Does it use Perlin noise ?
[14:09] SignpostMarv Martin doesn't do client-dev
[14:09] Dizzy Banjo: hey i need to go people.. was really great talking with you .. hope i wasnt too .. well.. noob for you all .. lol
[14:09] SignpostMarv Martin is a server-side guy
[14:09] Zero Linden: I need to go too
[14:09] Squirrel Wood: There is no noob ^^
[14:09] Saijanai Kuhn: take care Zero and thanks
[14:09] Wyn Galbraith: Ah thanks Zero.
[14:09] Zero Linden: Thanks Dizzy for bringing up music and audio!
[14:09] Dedalus Lunardi: Thanks Zero!
[14:09] Results Tiki: Thanks Zero.
[14:10] Tree Kyomoon: thanks zero :)
[14:10] Dizzy Banjo: i will be more and more
[14:10] Dizzy Banjo: :)
[14:10] Dedalus Lunardi: Thanks all, it was fun :-)
[14:10] Rex Cronon: bye zero, dizzy, ciaran
[14:10] SignpostMarv Martin: Zero: could you have a read through my lengthy blurb on Region Management ?
[14:10] Dizzy Banjo: thanks zero :)
[14:10] SignpostMarv Martin: post your thoughts on teh blog etc ?
[14:10] Zero Linden: your slug will get no dissenters, SMM
[14:10] Squirrel Wood: Shameless plug: Vote vote vote ^^
[14:10] Zero Linden: later all