WindLight/Office Hours/2008-01-15

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Jeremy Linden: A Torley approaches!
Torley Linden: Haha Jeremy that reminds me of Dragon Quest!
Chaos Markstein: hi
Torley Linden: Hi everyone!
Dimitrio Lewis: hi Torley :)
Jeremy Linden: (R)un (F)ight (W)atermelon
Torley Linden: Sorry I'm late, incidentally I was... OMG Dimicloned.
Torley Linden: Haha Jeremy!
Dimitrio Lewis: :D
Pastrami Linden: [8:17] AC: ok, one question: do you plan to support more graphic cards drivers like Omega drivers ?
Pastrami Linden: AC, from what I know, we don't have plans to support Omega
AC: but omega drivers are not so different from ATI drivers or Nvidia drivers ?
Torley Linden: I'm going through the WindLight open issues in our Issue Tracker right now and editing a lot... I see a lot of dupes of some of our hottest issues.
Pastrami Linden: [8:17] Dimitrio Lewis: Will the water continue to be developed?
Pastrami Linden: Well Dimitrio,
Pastrami Linden: in a way-
Pastrami Linden: the short answer is yes
Pastrami Linden: the longer answer invovles our cyclic nature of development
Chaos Markstein: hey a question about shaders thats been rattling on my mind lately, since the water supports it are we going to get multitexturing on prims and shaders such as occlusion and bump mapping?
Pastrami Linden: we go back around and "touch" each piece of the system round-robin style
Pastrami Linden: so since water jsut got a major overhaul
Orion Canning: title off
Frolic Mills gave you Miss SL Universe VIP Invitation.
Torley Linden: That's a great way to phrase it. :)
Pastrami Linden: I probably wouldn't expect much development in the immediate future
Pastrami Linden: but long term
Dimitrio Lewis: ah :) It looks great already, but can always look better
Pastrami Linden: expect to see better caustics, physical behavior, etc.
Pastrami Linden: and, one day, grid-wide weather!
Pastrami Linden: (OMFGBBQSAUCE)
Torley Linden: Such excitement.
Chaos Markstein: hey a question about shaders thats been rattling on my mind lately, since the water supports it are we going to get multitexturing on prims and shaders such as occlusion and bump mapping?
Pastrami Linden: Chaos please IM your questions to me so I can process them in time!
Chaos Markstein: okk
Pastrami Linden: [8:19] Amy Faddoul: My question. Can you see my prim clothing. Specifically the prim clothing covering oh..My genitals? This seems to be a new problem. I am getting AR'd.
Amy Faddoul: I wouldbe happy being able to walk from ahern to Morris without going on a magic carpet ride but weather would be nice to,
Torley Linden: <.<
Pastrami Linden: Amy your genitalia are PG-13 approved covered in my viewer
Torley Linden: Amy, I'd keep in mind that after teleporting and appearing in front of someone else, it may take a little while for your attachments (prims) to rez...
Frolic Mills gave you Miss SL Universe VIP Invitation.
Amy Faddoul: Well..I mean..Can you? I had 2 mentors and half of HIP on me tonight.
Torley Linden: so I'd err on the safe side and have some clothing (as in, non-prim) to cover you up in PG regions.
Chaos Markstein: also i found an annoying bug, CTRL+ALT+E no longer brings up environment editor
Zen Linden: Chaos: I had to take that out because ctrl+alt+e is the euro character on some european keyboards
AC: it's for €
Amy Faddoul: Ok. I'll see what I can come up with. Still The AR threats are rather disconcerting.
blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at []: see
Pastrami Linden: [8:21] Chaos Markstein: hey a question about shaders thats been rattling on my mind lately, since the water supports it are we going to get multitexturing on prims and shaders such as occlusion and bump mapping?
Pastrami Linden: CHaos, yes
Torley Linden: (Sorry I don't exchange friendships on this account!)
Pastrami Linden: as part of our broader materials project
Pastrami Linden: but that's a ways off
Chaos Markstein: also is server side sky happening anytime soon, i have this kick ass british post appocalyptic sim nearly built but i can't open it until i can get everyone to see the same sky and fog
Sami Luukkanen gave you SLD Shotgun (Watermelon edition) DECORATION (NOT SCRIPTED).
Zen Linden: Chaos: yes. Most likely the next project I'll be working on
Torley Linden: Chaos, and if you haven't yet, please bookmark and see for updates, we'll continually revise that as we make progress on stuff.
Pastrami Linden: [8:25] AC: Why the glow is only on white color ?
Chaos Markstein: ok is that torley's project update page
Pastrami Linden: AC, it should glow for any color that has glow on it
Torley Linden: No Chaos, that's a general WindLight info-page.
Pastrami Linden: Torley is this a known issue?
Chaos Markstein: ok
Torley Linden: AC, can you please be more specific? What glow intensity are you using?
Torley Linden: Pastrami: Not that I've heard of but curious to find out more...
AC: it seems for that glow is only "white"
AC: me*
Chaos Markstein: and what happened to that awsome shading effect on our avatars?
Chaos Markstein: we all look like plastic again now
AC: like around Torley's hat
Torley Linden: AC, which graphics card and driver version... ? Do you have any screenshots? Glow does have a subtle "white-ish" sheen but it shouldn't bleach out an object at lower, more subtle settings.
Jeremy Linden sees white glow around Torley's hat, but probably because it's tinted white
Torley Linden: What do you see with the tinted objects at Jeremy's feet, AC?
Pastrami Linden: Jeremy awesome whirl-around glowy thing!
Jeremy Linden: Heh. I thought it would be a good test of glow color.
Pastrami Linden: indeed!
Torley Linden: It looks like the psychadelic po-lice!
AC: yes
Chaos Markstein: that glow looks pretty red 2 me
Torley Linden: Yeah me too Chaos.
Amy Faddoul: ow.
Chaos Markstein: sorry,lol
Amy Faddoul: ::)
Chaos Markstein: what are the next plans for windlight, like in the next few weeks?
Pastrami Linden: so AC, how does it look to you?
Pastrami Linden: Chaos, please IM your questions to me
Pastrami Linden: so we can answer them in turn
AC: I see different color of glow
Pastrami Linden: woohoo!
AC: ^^
Pastrami Linden: [8:30] Chaos Markstein: whats next for Windlight, like in the next few weeks?
Pastrami Linden: Well CHaos, the next few weeks are all about prepping it for Release Candidate
Pastrami Linden: we're nailing some of the biggest bigs out there right now
Pastrami Linden: once those are done, it is going into RC
Pastrami Linden: after that, we test it in RC
Pastrami Linden: then it goes into Release
Pastrami Linden: then we work on making settings estate-controllable!
Zen Linden: w00!
Chaos Markstein: hehe ok, can't wait
Amy Faddoul: I'ma sneak out. thanks for the heads up. Ciao.
Pastrami Linden: [8:32] Chaos Markstein: AND are we going to be able to have an oncollision event, so when one collides with a scripted invisable prim the sky preset changes, this way we can have an "inside" preset and an "outside" preset that eliminate the sunset effect inside
Pastrami Linden: Chaos, that is a great idea
Torley Linden: Haha, that would be pretty wild, put someone in a bouncy room...
Pastrami Linden: fake iris effect
Pastrami Linden: I guess that all depends on LSL scriptabiliy for WL
Torley Linden: Also interesting for simulating different lighting in enclosed spaces.
Chaos Markstein: we REALLY need something done, because allot of SL is based inside only
Torley Linden: That's pretty creative thinking, Chaos...
Pastrami Linden: right
Pastrami Linden: we have three big things left for WL
Chaos Markstein: and it looks really odd when you have a sun set shading inside,lol. the last time i saw sunset shading in real life inside was when i was on acid
Pastrami Linden: estate controllability, settings as assets, and LSL controllability
Pastrami Linden: queue empty- any others?
Pastrami Linden: [8:37] Chaos Markstein: yes one last one. are classic clouds going to be part of the sky presets or a generic setting?
Pastrami Linden: we're keepign it generic for now
Pastrami Linden: thoughts?
Torley Linden: I think the UI could be arranged less confusingly...
Torley Linden: it's kind of weird that it *looks* like a per-preset setting.
Torley Linden: but is not!
Zen Linden agrees
Pastrami Linden agrees
Chaos Markstein: wont that damage some presets tho?
Torley Linden: No, Chaos, since it's not actually part of a preset...
Jeremy Linden: Classic Clouds would more accurately fall under the Graphics preferences tab, right?
Chaos Markstein: thats where it should be yeah
Torley Linden: Jeremy, yes, or Environment Editor (basic) if that wouldn't clutter it too much.
Zen Linden thinks he'll probably make it part of sky presets
Torley Linden: In time though it's likely to be deprecated...
Zen Linden: true also
Torley Linden: but for now Zen that sounds like a good idea too.
Pastrami Linden: [8:38] Dimitrio Lewis: Is Nimble anticipated to be a 2008 project?
Chaos Markstein: have you ever thought of using Nimble
Dimitrio Lewis: :D
Torley Linden: Good segueway Dimi and Chaos... :)
Chaos Markstein: Dimitrio beat me to it
Pastrami Linden: Dimitrio, I'd like to say yes
Torley Linden: Nimble would hopefully eat those classic clouds for breakfast. =)
Pastrami Linden: but realistically there's only about a 50% chance
Zen Linden: "nahm nahm nahm"
Zen Linden: eating classic clouds
Zen Linden: ...
FoxSan Yosuke: x3
Pastrami Linden: again, like water, clouds have just been "touched", so we need to focus on bigger issues right now
Dimitrio Lewis nods
Torley Linden: I like the "round robin" approach, it's kinda like some Final Fantasy game where all the swords fly out and you pick each sword and wallop a monster and then it goes "-9999 HP"!
Torley Linden: *is specifically thinking of the Knights of the Round attack*
blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at []: see
Pastrami Linden: LOL Torley
Pastrami Linden: [8:41] Chaos Markstein: also a little setting thats overlooked, Shorelines? what about Shorelines on tyhe water?
Zen Linden: mimicked 12 times
Ima Mechanique think Torley may have too much time
Pastrami Linden: no Ima- he creates time
Pastrami Linden: trust us
Torley Linden: Hahaha.
Zen Linden thinks that torley has the ability to stop time
Ima Mechanique: lol
Torley Linden: My fave Heroes character is Hiro Nakamura. ;)
Pastrami Linden: Chaos, again- cool feature, but probably not for a while- we need to clean up the renderer and add materials!
Zen Linden wants the torley time dilation script
Ima Mechanique: well, if there's any spare. I can always use a little more time
Chaos Markstein: add materials?
Pastrami Linden: normal maps, multitexturing, etc.
Chaos Markstein: oh ok
Pastrami Linden: a real, robust materials framework
Chaos Markstein: yeh that is definatly needed
Torley Linden: MMMmaterials (instead of MMMmuffins).
Pastrami Linden: queue empty....
Zen Linden: dude, i am getting so HUNGRY
Torley Linden: Kirby looked more appetizing when he was pink, not blue.
Pastrami Linden: actually, I like original Kirby with mario hat and stache better
Zen Linden: mmmm... marshmallow
Pastrami Linden: looks more "me"
Zen Linden: come here pastrami
Pastrami Linden: blue was too weird
Torley Linden: Yeah Blue is like, you're a Willy Wonka blueberry-thing.
Pastrami Linden: [8:44] Chaos Markstein: is there any talk of instancing prims? or pirm meshing? or even increasing the prim limits alltogether?
Pastrami Linden: Torley?
Torley Linden: Sorry I went quiet!
Torley Linden: Was looking at various issues...
Torley Linden: Chaos, I know some folks interested in advancing sculpted prims have wanted a better inworld editor.
Torley Linden: Or a way to "freeze" existing primsets...
Ima Mechanique: we noticed. So rare we marked it on our calendars
Torley Linden: and make them into a single sculpted prim to save prims.
Torley Linden: I haven't heard of any plans to increase the prim limits...
Torley Linden: for the forseeable future, they'll continue to be a general max of 15,000/region.
Chaos Markstein: how do we expect to advance second life graphics if we have a shitty prim limit
Torley Linden: We DID try some experiments in the past, but suffice to say (Andrew Linden knows much more about this), there were instabilities and other undesirable effects.
Chaos Markstein: 15000 prims is not enough to make a city
Chaos Markstein: for example
Chaos Markstein: even with special texturing techneques and tricks
Torley Linden: Chaos, prims are part of advancing aesthetics... there are a lot of economization techniques which work fairly well, from what I've seen.
Pastrami Linden: Torley, do you know if the instabilities came from physics?
Torley Linden: And there have been a lot of great cities done in less.
Torley Linden: Pastrami: No, it wasn't just physics... there's an old forum thread on it somewhere tho.
Pastrami Linden: gotchya
Torley Linden: Part of the problem has always been social responsibility.
Ima Mechanique: What about increases in prim sizes? Anychance they'd legitimise some of the smaller huige prims, say 20x20x20
Torley Linden: E.g., some people are inconsiderate and rez all these prims with honkin' huge textures and create a slow, painful experience.
Chaos Markstein: i use allot of 20x20x0.5's
Torley Linden: When infact something very similar could be done far more efficiently with "texture zoning" and advanced prim parameters.
Jakob Gloster: que es aca
Torley Linden: Ima: Not soon that I've heard of.
Torley Linden: That's another big area of discussion -- we should have better parcel encroachment tools first.
Ima Mechanique: Shame, a limited expansion would be VERY useful
Jakob Gloster: que es aca
Chaos Markstein: i use all 1024x1024 textures, even on rally tiny prims and each face is 1024x1024 (joke) i use texture zoning all the time
Torley Linden: I know some have said, "What about megaprims just for estates?" but then that opens up more questions of breaking content, e.g., moving stuff between mainland and estates.
Dimitrio Lewis: would be neat if when applying a texture to a prim, it highlighted in different colors to suggest whether that texture is a good or bad res for the prim
Torley Linden: Dimi, I feel strongly about more integrated education. :)
Chaos Markstein: no what we really need is auto-resolution textures
queenbeeUAE Akina: Hi everybody!!! :D :D :D
Johnnie Ireland: hey guys
Torley Linden: I know our Concierge Team and GTeam (Governance/Abuse) has a lot to say on some of this too; Governance has daily Office Hours on their island I think, they should be listed @
Ima Mechanique: I would agree Torley, charging different upload fees for different sizes would help on textures
Johnnie Ireland: anyone know anything about helping me with my water in windlight?
Dimitrio Lewis: I have some 2048s somewhere... now I know why our club always used to lag. lol
Torley Linden: Ima, that's something Kona and I discussed long ago. A good topic... at least it would make people more aware that there is a greater "cost" in several ways to using larger textures.
Torley Linden: Johnnie, if you have a question, please IM it to Pastrami!
Ima Mechanique: exactly
Torley Linden: Kona is one of our Quality Assurance Engineers and he feels very strongly about optimizing content too.
Ima Mechanique: would also encourage more efficient use of the sizes
Pastrami Linden: 5 more mins guys, then I have to jet!
Torley Linden: I think what would also help is showing examples of "good builds" inworld, meaning those that use limited resources effectively.
Ima Mechanique: however, Johnnies did ask a Windlight related question
Torley Linden: Since so much fo this is relativistic.
Johnnie Ireland: k...thanks are who everyone told me to look for on
Torley Linden: Hehe Johnnie. =)
Johnnie Ireland: you're famous...
Second Life: Your 2 objects have been returned to your inventory lost and found folder by Claudia Linden near parcel 'Campus North Plot 07 CoSN' at Campus North 172.423, 59.098 due to parcel auto return.
Ima Mechanique: Torley is INfamous
Johnnie Ireland: hahaha
Torley Linden: Oh I just hope I'm remembered as being friendly.
Ima Mechanique: mostly for being melon friendly I think
Torley Linden: Did anyone else have any last-min. WindLight questions? Please IM Pastrami with 'em!
Pastrami Linden: [8:56] Chaos Markstein: ok last one, is anything going to be done about alpha textures? and are we going to have the the option to make alpha textures opaque like the linden trees?
Zen Linden requires food badly
Torley Linden: Chaos, what sorts of probs are you seeing with the alpha textures?
Chaos Markstein: alpha sorting
Chaos Markstein: when one alpha texture appears infront of another, even tho one is behind the other
Jeremy Linden: Oy. Alpha sorting. I vote for fixing that, too, for what it's worth.
Pastrami Linden: Chaos, that is in jira, I believe, and yes, has to get fixed-
Pastrami Linden: but
Pastrami Linden: solving that and giving you the funciotnality is part of the bigger materials project!
Pastrami Linden: [8:57] Johnnie Ireland: i have downloaded windlight twice sky looks great...but cant get any reflections onto the water...still looks like "newbie water"
Pastrami Linden: Johnnie, what graphics setting are you at?
Pastrami Linden: High?
Johnnie Ireland: yes
Chaos Markstein: oh yeh, did you know Windlight (just about) works on an S3 16Meg graphics card
Pastrami Linden: move it to Ultra
Chaos Markstein: its painfull tho
Zen Linden: Johnnie, reflections are at ultra. You aren't on vista with an ati card are you?
Johnnie Ireland: i tried that twice...and it botted me off
Pastrami Linden: hardware?
Johnnie Ireland: ummm...yup
Zen Linden: yeah, the shaders aren't linking properly on vista and ati (I'm dealing with them)
Torley Linden: Water falls back to shaderless version on Vista -
Torley Linden: :)
Zen Linden: bingo
Torley Linden: All the pieces of the puzzle coming together!
Zen Linden: that's the jira
Johnnie Ireland: hmmm....i thought i was seeing everything properly...then my dear friend sent me a pic from off my sailboat....and i was blown away
Pastrami Linden: hehe
Torley Linden: Yeah, shader water is gorgeous compared to the inky blue ugly version.
Zen Linden: indeed
Zen Linden: working on it
Ima Mechanique: hehe closing your eyes and imagining is better than the inky blue...
Johnnie Ireland: kinda frustrating since i live on the boat and cant see the water how it is supposed to...i might as well move my boat to a dessert
Chaos Markstein: ok i gotta go
Jeremy Linden: mmm delicious dessert...
Chaos Markstein: see ya all later
Zen Linden: later!
Torley Linden: I've got to head to my next meeting too; thanks for being here at our office hour!
Johnnie Ireland: any idea how long it will take?
Ima Mechanique: any chance of BEARS?
Zen Linden: Johnnie: no idea, it's a driver bug and I have to point them how to fix it
Dimitrio Lewis waves bye to Lindens
AC: who has bear ?
Johnnie Ireland: just call bill gates...and tell him vista
Zen Linden: bye!
Jeremy Linden has a bear...
Torley Linden: Bye everyone for now!
Ima Mechanique: yay Jeremy, hand one over please?
Johnnie Ireland: bye all...TY
Pastrami Linden: see ya all- and Torley-
FoxSan Yosuke: byes :3
Pastrami Linden: you have all the meat of the office hours-
Pastrami Linden: you didn't miss anything
Torley Linden: OK good to know.
Ima Mechanique: thanks
Torley Linden: Pindrop!
Torley Linden: Hehe
Pastrami Linden: later all
Dimitrio Lewis: me too please, Jeremy! :)
Torley Linden: *waves*