WindLight/Office Hours/2008-02-21

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Pastrami Linden: Alsmot has ridden bullbright to arrive at this gathering
Pastrami Linden: so IM forth thine questions
Guen Shan: hi *mews*
norritt Xi: Hi Guen =)
Pastrami Linden: [13:15] norritt Xi: To take uo the Dazzle question. After "Dazzle" has been integrated into the viewer will there be the possibility to change between the old look and "Dazzle" in the preferences menu?
Pastrami Linden: Torley?
Torley Linden: Ah...
Torley Linden: no, we don't plan on having easy user-changeable skins YET.
Torley Linden: But Dazzle is a step forward in that direction.
Torley Linden: Be sure to see this for more info:
Torley Linden: It seems likely WindLight will be in RC, then the main viewer, before Dazzle is... but I haven't had the latest news. Pastrami?
July Lusch: friendly greetings
Torley Linden: FRIENDLY GREETINGS July! ;)
norritt Xi: I'd be really sorry if we lost the old UI look. I already took a peek at Dazzle but I still like the old more
Pastrami Linden: [13:16] Zante Zapedzki: I love using windlight but a lot of people are having problems with the latest release. Our machines freeze every 30 seconds or so. Is this going to be remedied in the next version?
Pastrami Linden: what's you rmachines?
Pastrami Linden: your
Zante Zapedzki: quadro fx 1500M
Zante Zapedzki: laptop
Summer Seale: hi guen =)
Guen Shan: *mews*
Zante Zapedzki: centrino duo
Guen Shan: hi summer ^^
Adaire DeCuir gave you Philotic Energy...With a Twist Invitation ~ Saturday.
Summer Seale: hi norritt =)
Ryder Spearmann: Hi SUmmer :)
Guen Shan: i crashed, now i missed the answer ^^
Summer Seale: hi ryder <3
norritt Xi: Hey Summer =)
Summer Seale: hehe nice ryder
Chase Euler: Friendly greetings from me too, everyone
Torley Linden: Friendly greetings Chase, all!
Pastrami Linden: Zante was WL always crash-prrof for you?
Zante Zapedzki: yes
Guen Shan: could someone repeat the answer to the dazzle question, please? *mews*
Zante Zapedzki: completely reliable
Guen Shan: i'm sorry i missed it cause i crashed
Torley Linden: Guen, [13:16] Torley Linden: no, we don't plan on having easy user-changeable skins YET. [13:16] Torley Linden: But Dazzle is a step forward in that direction. [13:16] Torley Linden: Be sure to see this for more info: [13:17] Torley Linden: It seems likely WindLight will be in RC, then the main viewer, before Dazzle is... but I haven't had the latest news. Pastrami?
Pastrami Linden: have you tried RC?
Pastrami Linden: Zante?
Pastrami Linden: I'm curious from where the crashes are coming
Guen Shan: ty torley *mews*
Zante Zapedzki: I'll try thatand post in the forums
Torley Linden: You're welcome Guen. =)
Pastrami Linden: thank Zante
Pastrami Linden: or just IM me
Zante Zapedzki: alright
Pastrami Linden: [13:17] Ryder Spearmann: Hi! only question: how to set prim params for the GLOW feature. Thanks :)
July Lusch: I have a question actually...oddly that we have lovely breathtaking reflective water are we going to see reflective surface textures any time soon?
Akeela Banting: So, do I get that right... we will get dazzle before we will be able to turn it off and change it to something useful?
Yenwen Fall: the alt pan crash still happens to me a few times a day.
Pastrami Linden: Ryder-
Pastrami Linden: Texture->Glow
Pastrami Linden: ;)
blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at []: see
Pastrami Linden: [13:18] Yenwen Fall: am i the only one haveing lots of alpha problems sine the last update?
Pastrami Linden: Yenwen, describe them please
Summer Seale: /listen off
Ryder Spearmann: ack! sorry... Meant with LSL :)
Pastrami Linden: ahh, Ryder, that's not out yet
Zante Zapedzki: I think Rdyer was talking with regards to the use of LSL to alter the glow modifer : p
Pastrami Linden: coming soon though
Jeremy Linden: Pastrami, do you have that one hotkeyed yet? :-)
Yenwen Fall: alpha partice systems and overlaping alphas keep disapering and showing through each other.
Pastrami Linden: lol
Ryder Spearmann keeps the light on Summer, then
Pastrami Linden: BigPapi, does that sound like our known particle issues?
Yenwen Fall: it seems if i log out and come back some thimes it will fix itself.
BigPapi Linden: Hmm
BigPapi Linden: What do you mean "show through each other"?
Sascha Vandyke: hmm sounds like particle problem too
BigPapi Linden: This different from the release client?
BigPapi Linden: It sounds like you're describing standard alpha behavior.
Yenwen Fall: have not tired it in the base client.
Yenwen Fall: the particle system was backed by a none alpa wall wich is the odd part.
Detour Sideways: maybe the wall texture was 32 bit
Yenwen Fall: would a bounding box with a alpha texture on it cause the same problem?
Detour Sideways: it doesnt matter if you actually have a mask drawn it will still cause problems
Guen Shan purrs
BigPapi Linden: File a jira report with screenshots, it's hard to tell if you're describing an actual bug or just the normal pitfalls of alpha objects.
Yenwen Fall: no way to fix the z order with the alphas? if i know what i am talking about.
Yenwen Fall: ok will do so.
Torley Linden: Yenwen, you're referring to Z-fighting?
Pastrami Linden: [13:19] Summer Seale: when is the friend list freezing up bug going to be fixed? any ideas? =)
Pastrami Linden: let me check...
Detour Sideways: no he means alpha sorting
Summer Seale nods
Yenwen Fall: ya
Guen Shan: good question summer ^^
Guen Shan: *mews*
BigPapi Linden: If alpha objects are close together, they will usually sort incorrectly.
Pastrami Linden: Torley do you know about the friends list freezing?
Summer Seale: iknow. i'm brilliant. you know that. =)
Summer Seale: zen knows about it.
BigPapi Linden: That's not a bug, it's a limitation.
Torley Linden: I heard that's fixed in the latest RC... have you tried it?
Summer Seale: i pointed it out to him and figured out what it was.
Summer Seale: nope it was fixed in RC?
Torley Linden: *tries to check the Issue Tracker* let me see here...
Summer Seale: i'll try it \o/
Torley Linden: Issue Tracker bein' SLOWWW on me *knocks it*
Summer Seale: <3 you if it's true
Yenwen Fall: i would not say 10m is close together :)
Torley Linden: See , Summer?
Torley Linden: Hmmm some people mention the latest WindLight works fine for them too, re: friends freezes.
Torley Linden: (And by latest I mean 1.19, 80044.)
Torley Linden: (Public!)
Summer Seale: ok
Summer Seale: i'll try it
Pastrami Linden: [13:23] July Lusch: I have a question actually...oddly that we have lovely breathtaking reflective water are we going to see reflective surface textures any time soon?
Guen Shan: i have some other bug with friendlist sometimes
Summer Seale: it hink i have it but i'll give it a shot again
Pastrami Linden: July, will come with a new materials system
Pastrami Linden: which is our next major project
Pastrami Linden: but potentially a ways off
Pastrami Linden: we need stability!
Dav Bracken: very technical this time...
July Lusch: hehhe stability vs features...the old quest
Pastrami Linden: yep
Guen Shan: sometimes when i log on, names in friendlist are not shown, there was a workaroung but it doesn't work anymore
Dav Bracken: STABILITY i approve
Pastrami Linden: [13:24] Detour Sideways: Can we get a keuboard shortcut for the sky/water editor please. It takes like 5 or 6 clicks to get to one of my presets and I need to do it on every login
Farallon Greyskin: Seal "oooos" at mterials... ^^
Pastrami Linden: well we couldn't use ctral+alt+e anymore
Farallon Greyskin: I secong the chortcut, I missed it terribly when the french took it away :D
Pastrami Linden: we'll have to come up with an alternative
Detour Sideways: yeah I heard... lets pick another shall we? :)
Pastrami Linden: we have a jira for it
Pastrami Linden: let me find it
Detour Sideways: it saves one click.. there are still too many to get to my presets though
Dav Bracken: Atlassian !
Yenwen Fall: how about a rip off window for it?
Detour Sideways: we need a better solution
Dav Bracken: what for ?
Detour Sideways: for people who dont read questions
Yenwen Fall: nevermine. :)
Dav Bracken: lol sorry
Yenwen Fall: is there going to be a weather system in game at any time?
Pastrami Linden: please IM me questions to be properly placed in queue!
Dav Bracken: ok Pastrami could you tell us what are working on ?
Pastrami Linden: [13:25] Akeela Banting: Regarding the UI again - Will you make dazzle mandatory on all clients before you implement featured to turn it off and chose a more useable and less bright UI design? This goes not only for WL client, but also for RC and release? [13:28] Akeela Banting: Annother question: When is the boldface bug in the IM window going to be fixed?
July Lusch: I like the bold IM thing
Torley Linden: (Please don't IM me questions, please send them to Pastrami Linden!)
Pastrami Linden isn't directly involved with dazzle
Pastrami Linden: but any of the rest of you Lindens know the answer?
Torley Linden: Akeela, re: Dazzle, I'm responsible for collecting and responding to community feedback on that.
Orhalla Zander: I kinda like the ui, except it's slower for me to get to my friend's list now
Akeela Banting: That is good to hear..
Torley Linden: We're still open to making tweaks, since it's in First Look. Please file issues for specific bugs.
Detour Sideways: torley, do you wear sunglasses when you use it?
Summer Seale: lol
July Lusch: lol
Michael Dale: *chuckles*
Maldavius Figtree: My word its a Totorley :o
Torley Linden: Detour, no. It's no brighter than XP Silver, or Mac OS X, but I agree it may take time to get used to it.
Detour Sideways: I mean its nice, but damn its bright
Summer Seale: it's very Mac OS X - love it
Akeela Banting: Torley, do you understand that the dazzle UI is putting a large number of people off and making using SL a pain for them?
Sascha Vandyke: will burn into my screen lol
Detour Sideways: its nothing like macosx
Detour Sideways: anyway
Dav Bracken: please no add
Torley Linden: Akeela, please file a specific issue with actionable details and send me the #, I'll have a look.
Maureen Selene: Oh, hello evryone.
Torley Linden: Vague abstractions don't really help us make progress.
Farallon Greyskin: I vote give option or atleast work in a way of changing the color/brightness/transparency of the main background colors from the UI...
Torley Linden: Farallon, that's fine as a feature request.
Akeela Banting: Torley: Very simple: Do NOT force Dazzle, make it optional.
Akeela Banting: Or, like farralon said, give us control over colour, brightness and transparency.
Farallon Greyskin: I know that all the xml files can be hacked but becuase that is a reather huge job and they change so frequently it's not really practical to maintin a set of them as an alternate "skin"
Torley Linden: Please make *SURE* to enter them in the Issue Tracker, and see all of We can consider options, but need time for feedback to gel.
norritt Xi: Akeela: Yes I don't like the bright shiny look very much as well. I wouldn't say its a pain but definitly uncomfortable.
Torley Linden: But anyway, this is a WindLight-focused office hour, so please keep questions on-topic! :)
Pastrami Linden: [13:26] Aki Shichiroji: Hi Pastrami :) Further to an older bug that still appears to be a problem in the current version, is there any possibility we might see some attention paid to a crash that is occuring with Macs directly related to any resizing of the client window? The JIRA is . I realise this is probably an obscure crash for your team given the age of the systems being mentioned, but would just like to know if it will be fixed... or if there is anything further folks can do to document these crashes?
Akeela Banting: Then, what about the boldface?
Akeela Banting: That is definitly windlight.
Pastrami Linden: Akeela, boldface is known and will be fixed soon
Akeela Banting: Thank heavens!
Roxanne Hynes: pfew:)
Torley Linden: =)
Pastrami Linden: Torley, re: Aki-
Guen gives Maureen a big hug.
Pastrami Linden: I don't recall seeing that one imported
Guen Shan purrs
Torley Linden: Pastrami, it sure was,
Torley Linden: Oops.
Maureen Selene: *purrs*
Torley Linden: Internally,
Torley Linden: =)
Guen Shan: *mews*
Torley Linden: "VWR-4972: WindLight: Instant Message chat font is BOLD and looks crappy in 1.19 (80044)"
Pastrami Linden: No Torley!
Pastrami Linden: silly
Torley Linden: Which one?
Pastrami Linden: see Aki's comment above
Aki Shichiroji:
Torley Linden: Oh that, sorry, wrong name.
Torley Linden: *checks*
Torley Linden: Will import it.
Pastrami Linden: np
Pastrami Linden: thanks
TigorZ::Tail: Yenwen Fall's tail got tugged!
Torley Linden: Thanks for reporting that, Aki!
Pastrami Linden: [13:34] Yenwen Fall: is there going to be a weather system at any time?
Pastrami Linden: yes
Aki Shichiroji: :)
Pastrami Linden: but not in the near future
Aki Shichiroji: Thanks for having a look!
Pastrami Linden: [13:35] Summer Seale: did the snapshot bug with constrain proportion/aspect ratio get fixed in the new windlight? i haven't checked, but i'll ask anyway. =)
Pastrami Linden: Torley, is this the one that was contentious between Bao and some others?
Summer Seale: oh how *embarrasing*! he posts the last part of the question too! =)
Pastrami Linden: as to correct behavior?
Torley Linden: This one is still open to feature design...
Torley Linden: see
Summer Seale: thanks. i'll check it out
Torley Linden: I personally don't crop in-viewer and use external tools so I don't have much context/basis for how it should work.
blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at []: see
Summer Seale: yes but i shoot at sometimes 6k x 6k format and it becomes important to me =)
Summer Seale: well 3k x 3k
July Lusch: I think it was fixed the 512x512 used to go at randomn angles
Summer Seale: but doubled up
Detour Sideways: we need some way to keep the aspect ratio.. weve always had it
Yenwen Fall: did not know you could use that high a rez
Summer Seale: ya
Summer Seale: my typical shots are 3k x 3k
Pastrami Linden: [13:37] Ryder Spearmann: Hi Pastrami. I don't know if this is right for this meeting... but we have not been able to click on HUDS while in mouselook for a very long time now... I think approaching a year. (alt+click). Can question of "when will we see fix" be fielded here?
Pastrami Linden: I haven't been around that long- Torley might know
Summer Seale: god ryder, he just called you old... =)
Guen Shan purrs
Ryder Spearmann: ack!
Ryder Spearmann: :)
Torley Linden: Ryder, do you have an Issue Tracker # for it? I'm not familiar with that but I DO know some Mouselook functionality was removed, as it was confusing to have it in mixed-modes...
Torley Linden: E.g., you can't use the build tools in Mouselook (at least not until we have a better UI paradigm with an allowance for it, and that's not likely anytime soon).
Ryder Spearmann: oh, I do... let me see if I can find
Summer Seale: he's more concerned about mouslook clicking on combat huds when flying stuff, i think.
Ryder Spearmann: I have it on my watch...... loading
Zebra North: Oh a slightly different mouselook issue - it springs out of mouslook when you switch to SL (ie alt-tab away and back), is it supposed to or is that a bug? It didn't used to...
Torley Linden: Zebra, that was a bug fix to avoid getting stuck.
Torley Linden: :)
Zebra North: ah ok... I switch windows a lot and it makes mouselook quite annoying :P
Pastrami Linden: [13:39] Sascha Vandyke: Dear Pastrami, the color for displaying IM in chat history is dark grey in windlight, I use this feature always, but the color can't be changed. Will it be fixed?
Ryder Spearmann: well, it's just that touching HUDS in mouselook stoped working... VWR-365 Unable to use ALT in mouse mode to click on objects Such as HUDs
Sascha Vandyke:
Orhalla Zander: Zebra, i keep my sl in a window all thetime..... and i've had a lot less trouble doing that way, ie for switching to photoshop or something
Torley Linden: Thanks Orh, yeah, windowed mode can help if you're big into multitasking.
Maldavius Figtree: I love windowed mode :o
Torley Linden: Hmmm no action on that Mouselook one recently, Ryder, I'll check with the devs who might know best!
Torley Linden: Thanks for the reminder!
Summer Seale: i don't think i've ever even tried full screen more than once i think...
Pastrami Linden: Sascha, I'm not sure- it's not a WL specific bug
Yenwen Fall: i have 2 monitors so i am always in window mode.
Zebra North: Yes I use windowed mode not fullscreen, but it changes out of mouselook whenever I switch
Sascha Vandyke: ahh ok, thought the fixes that are there went into the official too
Orhalla Zander: odd.... how do you switch, i use my task bar
Zebra North: alt+tab
Torley Linden: And about that issue, Sascha, I'll check with Brent Linden about that...
Sascha Vandyke: cool thx
Orhalla Zander: i have it to hide when i'm not using it
Torley Linden: he's doing Dazzle art/aesthetics/colors and he'd know best.
Sascha Vandyke: nice
Pastrami Linden: [13:41] Zebra North: Hello, a little question (hope it's right to IM you, this is my first visit): The IM tabs were recently changed to highlight instead of flash - I find it very easy to miss - any plan to make it more obviously visible?
Pastrami Linden: I find it weird too- I think it will be changed soon
Torley Linden: Zebra, oh that's also a very hot issue, not WL-specific either, but our Resident Experience Team is gonna look at that, if they haven't already.
Zebra North: great, thanks :)
Torley Linden: The general line of thought here was to have a "happy medium" between being SEVERELY ANNOYING and too subtle.
Pastrami Linden: [13:42] Yenwen Fall: still haveing problems with alt pan crashing. is this still being looked at?
Zebra North: personally I'd also like a little sound when an IM is received too, along the lines of MSN/YIM/etc...
Maureen Selene: Pstramis, theresa workaround for that to make them flsh again.
Pastrami Linden: Yenwen- all crashing will be looked at very closely soon- our crash reporting is about to get a lot better
Yenwen Fall: i get out of memory errors wheni do that.
Orhalla Zander: Many of my crash reports never send... lol
Yenwen Fall: no its not my machine its the game.
Detour Sideways: I get pauses when I pan sometimes, which only started happening in WL about 2 releases ago
Dav Bracken: no just a geek meeting
Detour Sideways: like 5-10 second pauses
PeterParker Radek: oh ok
Detour Sideways: actually it started when we got the newer UI with that release button
Pastrami Linden: yeah it might have come from RC and not WL
Pastrami Linden: in any case we
Pastrami Linden: 're about to be part of RC
Detour Sideways: Ive had that pause in the main client for a while
Detour Sideways: then WL came along and it was gone so I had some hope
Detour Sideways: :)
Pastrami Linden: which will make a lot of this debugging much easier
Pastrami Linden: [13:42] Orhalla Zander: Any chance of making it so an avatar's skin is invisible? So we don't have to wear invisiprims like Detour Sideways over there.
Zante Zapedzki: hehe
Pastrami Linden: Orhala- will come with a materials system
Zebra North: :o
Pastrami Linden: [13:42] July Lusch: is there a time schedule for Windlight going server side and not just client side?
norritt Xi: Excellent!
Detour Sideways: qarl said he wanted to add an invisible property to skins
Detour Sideways: or avatars cant remember which
Pastrami Linden: once it's proven out client side
Pastrami Linden: so within the next few months
July Lusch: cool
Pastrami Linden: [13:42] Zante Zapedzki: we realise that SpeedTree is the next thing to do on the feature list but has any work been done on it so far? - Is it going to be difficult to make work? [13:43] Zante Zapedzki: what are the complications
Dav Bracken: good luck, bye
Pastrami Linden: initial research work into it has been done-
Pastrami Linden: it won't be difficult
Pastrami Linden: the issue is team size
Pastrami Linden: our graphics team at present essentially functions as a single unit
Pastrami Linden: so we can only handle one project at a time
Pastrami Linden: for now
Pastrami Linden: [13:45] Maldavius Figtree: Are there any plans for the mainland tier system to be applied to private regions to stop the need for scripted tools to handle land rental.
Pastrami Linden: Maldavius that is truly WindLight related
Pastrami Linden: ;)
Maldavius Figtree: XD
Sascha Vandyke: lol
Kitty Tandino: xD
Pastrami Linden: I haven't a clue- anyone here?
Kitty Tandino: "woot mally"
Maldavius Figtree: Ive been wondering for a while <.<
Torley Linden: I haven't heard any plans for that, but I would check with Lindens who specialize in land... like Concierge/Land Gurus.
Maldavius Figtree: It seems like that change would drasticly cut the lag load on private regions because region owners have to use so many tools to do the same job
Maldavius Figtree: Alright thanks torley :3
Pastrami Linden: [13:52] norritt Xi: When I use the WL in windowed mode and move other windows or the task bar above the WL window I get something like a shadow of the window in the currently shown in-world scenery. Is this known yet and gonna be fixed?
Torley Linden: Jack would be interested in hearing about it, you're welcome Maldavius, see his office hours @
Maldavius Figtree: Alright awesome :3
Pastrami Linden: I haven't heard of it but that doesn't mean it's not known
Pastrami Linden: Torley?
Torley Linden: norritt, does it look glowing?
Maureen Selene: allowd to.
Pastrami Linden: sorry, going to multi answer here quickly
Pastrami Linden: need to run soon
Pastrami Linden: [13:53] Yenwen Fall: over all i just want to say i am happy with the windlight viewer and keep up the good work.
norritt Xi: Yes Looks glowing the colors are either oversaturated or inverted
Pastrami Linden: thanks!
Torley Linden: Pastrami, internally that bug *may* be but not sure.
Pastrami Linden: [13:56] Summer Seale: the last time an RC changed from windlight to another feature (voice), we lost windlight for several months in every way. can you assure us that this RC with dazzle won't be taking away our windlight again for a while the same way voice did? [13:56] Summer Seale: sorry, not RC, but first look.
Detour Sideways: that sounds like a driver issues
Torley Linden: norritt, hmmm may be worth opening a public issue for it then, it was only internal earlier.
Pastrami Linden: Summer not goign away
Pastrami Linden: WindLight is going into RC
Pastrami Linden: thats a step up
Pastrami Linden: vritually at release
Torley Linden: WindLight is here to stay! Wooha!
July Lusch: upwards and onwards
Summer Seale: ok. just making sure. can't live without my windlight
Summer Seale: had to be asked tho. you *do* understand.
Pastrami Linden: [13:58] Orhalla Zander: Heyo, if we're an Island Estate Manager, will we ever get the option to change the texture of the water?
Torley Linden: We're glad you're hooked, Summer. :-)
Pastrami Linden: yes
Summer Seale: well you know me, torley.. =)
Pastrami Linden: ocne tradeable / estate controllable WL assets are devloped
Ryder Spearmann: Summer likes the best snapshots possible :)
Pastrami Linden: alright all I must run
Pastrami Linden: see you next week!
Zante Zapedzki: thanks Pastrami : )
Ryder Spearmann: WL is awesome!!!! thanks!
July Lusch: see ya Pastrami, keep up the goo work
Farallon Greyskin: See yu later. THanks
Sascha Vandyke: thx , have a nice day
July Lusch: the good work too
Aki Shichiroji: Bye Pastrami
Akeela Banting: Take care pastrami!
Detour Sideways: bye guys
Aki Shichiroji: Thanks for fielding our questions
norritt Xi: Cya Pastrami
Summer Seale: thank you pastrami!
Summer Seale: and thanks again to the great work
Zante Zapedzki: :]
Kitty Tandino: :D! ty pastrami
Zebra North: thanks :)
Ryder Spearmann: Yeah... youz *rock*
Orhalla Zander: thank you guys
Torley Linden: Take care everyone and thanks for being with us!
Sascha Vandyke: same to you
BigPapi Linden: Thank you everyone!
Torley Linden: A transcript of this event will be posted shortly @
Ryder Spearmann waves.... goes home
Kitty Tandino: ty torley!
Aki Shichiroji: Take care, all
Maureen Selene: *mews* ! How rude !
July Lusch: thanks everyone, ciao for now
Guen Shan: *mews*
Chase Euler: thanks, guys!
Summer Seale: thanks guys =)
Jeremy Linden: Bye everyone!
Sorraya Pera shouts: aaaaaa help!!
Guen Shan: bye Lindens *mews*
Maureen Selene: Bye lindens.
Torley Linden: Byebye!