WindLight/Office Hours/2008-03-06

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Pastrami Linden: they're doing calisthenics
Jeremy Linden: Time's up!
Aki Shichiroji: Hi Jeremy, Pastrami :)
Aki Shichiroji: Greetings, Bao
Crescently Mornington: hi all
Aki Shichiroji: heyhey Crescently.
Bao Linden: hi
Dahlia Trimble: Hi :)
Yamyam Utorid: i thought you were Torley there
Pastrami Linden: IM me any questions
Pastrami Linden: you know the drill
Pastrami Linden: [13:12] Penn Euler: I've missed a couple of these office hours. Is there any news about being able to script glow?
Pastrami Linden: it's coming soon
Pastrami Linden: [13:13] Keisha Ninetails: Did you guys discover something that kept windlight from going RC?
Pastrami Linden: it's on the order of days away
Keisha Ninetails: HA!
Pastrami Linden: [13:14] Dahlia Trimble: status of VWR-3241?
Keisha Ninetails: oki
Dahlia Trimble: Hi thats the particle density one?
Bao Linden: already fixed
Bao Linden: going to RC soon
Pastrami Linden: thanks Bao
Dahlia Trimble: any expected date we will see it?
Dahlia Trimble: (and thank you too )
Pastrami Linden: [13:14] Aki Shichiroji: Greetings :) I'm not sure if this is WL specific, but i have only had it happen to me in the most recent iteration of the client, so i figured i'd ask: After spending some extended time in mouselok, for some reason my controls to turn left and right locked up. I found i could strafe left and right in both mouselook and third person, but turning my av or my camera was out of the question. Is this something you've ever heard of before?
Pastrami Linden: you guys heard anything about this?
Aki Shichiroji: it's happened twice and both times i've had to either deal with it or relog
Yamyam Utorid: i have only heard i couldnt turn left or right in third person but i could in mouselook
Aki Shichiroji: i am not sure, but i don't think it's AO related either
Jeremy Linden: Heh. Well, left and right become strafe in mouselook....
Pastrami Linden: hmm Torley would know this
Jeremy Linden: I wonder if it's either getting stuck that way, or if you're accidentally leaning on the shift key, like I sometimes do :-P
Pastrami Linden: [13:15] Yamyam Utorid: Is there any way to get dazzle for windlight? [13:15] Yamyam Utorid: if not why?
Aki Shichiroji nods. It's just the ability to turn my av or camera just locked up. Was some time last night. have not tried to reproduce as yet
Pastrami Linden: dazzle and wl will be together soon
Yamyam Utorid: Ok thanks
Yamyam Utorid: Is there a specific date?
Pastrami Linden: [13:15] Mastorian Kingsford: What is the diffence in the way windlight handles the night skys, for some reason at the point where day becomes night my colers seem to high contrast my black hair will be white and every thing looks like a high densty light is shining on it after true night hits, theres a white band on the lower part of horizon and sky is strong white clouds ?
Aki Shichiroji: well it's not so much ending up strafing while hitting those keys, but not being able to turn at all. even though they do work while i hold down shift.
Pastrami Linden: Mastorian known bug at the crossover point
Pastrami Linden: [13:18] Keisha Ninetails: When windlight does go RC can all open jira issues be marked as resolved, and the issues that remain, if they still remain can be re-opened? would help to clean it up a bit so bugs being chased from many releases ago can be weeded out
Pastrami Linden: Keisha Torley will be doing some of that
Yamyam Utorid: what is RC?
Pastrami Linden: release candidate- halfway between first look and release
Pastrami Linden: :)
Yamyam Utorid: ty
Keisha Ninetails: oki, because I've noticed some of them are pretty old
Pastrami Linden: yeah
Zante Zapedzki: : p
Mastorian Kingsford: theres the weird inverted over lite colors at day to night cycle
Mastorian Kingsford: k
Pastrami Linden: [13:24] Summer Seale: will there be an upcoming exporter in the near future for personalized windlight settings?
Pastrami Linden: Summer, at some point they will become assets
Pastrami Linden: but in the meantime,
Summer Seale: oh! nice
Summer Seale: will we be able to export them to a text file tho? for safekeeping
Pastrami Linden: you can grab the settings from the directory....
Pastrami Linden: they already are
Summer Seale: oh okay
Pastrami Linden: let me find the dir
Pastrami Linden: your in Win?
Summer Seale: in the xml file, right?
Summer Seale: yup
Pastrami Linden: right
Summer Seale: ya i got it
Pastrami Linden: okay so you already know abot it
Pastrami Linden: about
Summer Seale: right
Summer Seale: i just was wondering about an easier way for us non-xml mortals
Pastrami Linden: any other q's?
Summer Seale grins
Pastrami Linden: [13:27] Dahlia Trimble not sure if it's windlight, but sometimes I notice that clicking a hud on the right side of my screen moves my camera to the right a little, as if I hit the right arrow key
Pastrami Linden: have not heard of that one
Pastrami Linden: guys?
Dahlia Trimble: its hard to reproduce but I'm trying to get more information
Jeremy Linden: Hm. Not sure exactly what that could be, unless the client camera is trying to focus on the object somehow.
Aki Shichiroji: i have not experienced that. though i am still getting that buggy camera redirect where you click something and it goes 180 degrees in the other direction.
Summer Seale: oh i've got that camera redirect sometimes
Aki Shichiroji: seems to happen a lot on alpha textures
Spaceman Opus: yep
Summer Seale: ya
Mastorian Kingsford: i noticed that all 3 clients seem to drop huds now on tps from time to time
Yamyam Utorid: and the overlapping with alpha textures
Dahlia Trimble: I noticed that too, all my huds were detached
Keisha Ninetails: detached or just not rendered?
Jeremy Linden: I haven't seen that myself, though I only ever wear a one-prim HUD.
Dahlia Trimble: detached
Mastorian Kingsford: detached
Pastrami Linden: [13:29] Keisha Ninetails: are you guys intentionaly delaying the move to RC status and eventually to full release because you will miss all of us and these office hours once windlight does go live?
Keisha Ninetails: never seen that one myself, I have had them fail to render on many occasions though
Summer Seale: whhoa
Pastrami Linden: haha, nice Keisha-
Yamyam Utorid: lool
Pastrami Linden: that actually raises another point
Spaceman Opus: lol
Keisha Ninetails: lol, you didn't read it first
Pastrami Linden: we will be merging these Office Hours with the RC ones soon
Keisha Ninetails grins a sly grin knowing that tidbit of info
Pastrami Linden: no, I read it
Summer Seale: i jsut got shot too
Pastrami Linden: :)
Pastrami Linden: but I will announce on the blog when that will happen
Pastrami Linden: same people will show up
Pastrami Linden: meaning us
Pastrami Linden: and hopefully meaning you
Keisha Ninetails: and when it goes full release?
Pastrami Linden: [13:30] Yamyam Utorid: why when i zoom into an alpha object it zooms really weird
Pastrami Linden: Keisha, we will probably part ways
Yamyam Utorid: lol
Pastrami Linden: :(
Keisha Ninetails: pfft
Pastrami Linden: but shall meet once more!
Yamyam Utorid: i did'nt know what to say
Pastrami Linden: at the SpeedTree office hours
Pastrami Linden: or the shadows office hours
Zante Zapedzki: !
Pastrami Linden: or the no more crashes office hours
Pastrami Linden: oh my!
Zante Zapedzki: :]
Keisha Ninetails: ok, now we're reaching... :p
Jeremy Linden: No more crashes office hours? Is that the land of make-believe? :-)
Pastrami Linden: no Jeremy
Pastrami Linden: that's Second Life
Pastrami Linden: your world
Dahlia Trimble: what is speedtree anyway?
Pastrami Linden: your imagination
Zante Zapedzki: speedtree is greatness
Pastrami Linden: the latest narcotic hitting the streets
Pastrami Linden: these kids don't know what they're getting into
Pastrami Linden: :)
Mastorian Kingsford: lol
Pastrami Linden:
Pastrami Linden: hardcore trees, all the time
Dimitrio Lewis: my viewer has been unusually stable the last few days, I wish I could remember what I clicked
Pastrami Linden: "stable"
Pastrami Linden: ?
Pastrami Linden: :)
Dimitrio Lewis: I always used to crash when in a long-long-long camera pan in ahern
Pastrami Linden: q = empty
Summer Seale: maybe we're just that content =)
Keisha Ninetails: my usual failsafe fallback question has already been asked :/
Keisha Ninetails: though
Keisha Ninetails: [13:33] Pastrami Linden: [13:30] Yamyam Utorid: why when i zoom into an alpha object it zooms really weird
Dahlia Trimble is called by rl.. thanks for the info :)
Summer Seale: see you dahlia =)
Pastrami Linden: Oh yeah, I had told yamyam I'm not sure
Pastrami Linden: [13:37] Zante Zapedzki: for the sake of asking - any plans to use director 11 to create a browser based client? ; p
Pastrami Linden: Zante, interestingly,
Pastrami Linden: I had raised this internally after I believe you had IMd me
Zante Zapedzki: :o
Zante Zapedzki: ah
Pastrami Linden: the feeling was-
Pastrami Linden: there is some merit to it, but,
Pastrami Linden: we'd rather push SL as a "viewer" for a number of reasons.....
Pastrami Linden: here we go
Aki Shichiroji: it would be nice to access SL through a lighter client... that we could trust.
Pastrami Linden: 1. lighter clients are coming,
Canoeman Darwin: Queenbee ;)
Pastrami Linden: but will probably use some sort of streaming,
Zante Zapedzki: I see
Pastrami Linden: to avoid directly rendering in the client
Pastrami Linden: because,
Pastrami Linden: 2) just because Director 11 supports DX, doesn't mean it won't become slower or less stable,
Zante Zapedzki: right
Pastrami Linden: because then you need to handle the overhead and problems of the browser + plugin, PLUS SL inherently
Pastrami Linden: 3) don't all machines now have web browsers by default?
Pastrami Linden: that's the goal for SL
Pastrami Linden: I know it's lofty and long term,
Zante Zapedzki: lofty : ]
Keisha Ninetails: as SL replaces the WWW
Pastrami Linden: but it's like asking Netscape early on to just make the windows explorer windows "have" internet
Pastrami Linden: something like that
Pastrami Linden: we *will* see a LOT of browser-based virtual worlds coming out
Aki Shichiroji: Would it be possible then to utilize one of the open source options already put together by REsidents and work towards making something more browser based instead? IE: Ajaxlife
Pastrami Linden: oh yeah, I'm telling you-
Pastrami Linden: light clients are coming
Zante Zapedzki: exactly, and users tend to stick with what they understand
Mastorian Kingsford: thats a sin to put them together like that netscape was better :-(
Pastrami Linden: what we won't have though, likely, is the full 3D realtime version on your machine, VIA the browser, soon
Aki Shichiroji: i mean, Katherine's work is great... but i often feel unsecure logging in to her server. not because she's suspect, but because it's not something LL handles personally.
Aki Shichiroji: Pastrami> cool, that's good to hear :D
Keisha Ninetails: ok, correct me if I'm wrong but, are you saying that one of the long term goals of LL is to have an SL client as a standard program on computers, like a web browser, or email program, or whatever?
Zante Zapedzki: I see, it'll be interesting to see what people come up with though. Director 11 might change the 3D web
AlexanderThe Benelli: @realtime 3D in ur browser:
Yamyam Utorid: Like when you install windows its like a custom program?
Summer Seale: the original idea, as far as i could tell, was to make a 3D WWW in a sense.
Penn Euler: presumably that vision is what motivates the open-sourcing policy
Pastrami Linden: Keisha, yes
Keisha Ninetails: nice :)
Pastrami Linden: just like AOL started coming on all the Apples in the 90s
Pastrami Linden: etc. etc.
Zante Zapedzki: have to admire that kind of vision ; ]
Canoeman Darwin: AOHell :)
Summer Seale: but please, nobody ever name it something as goofy as "The Information Superhighway" =)
Pastrami Linden: and re: rasterwerks,
Pastrami Linden: it's cool, but---
Mastorian Kingsford: thats cause commodore died and aol wanted to be more then a game host
Zante Zapedzki: call it 'rumours on the internet(s)'
AlexanderThe Benelli: just a nice example that your browser "can" rock, i know its nothing compared to sl
Pastrami Linden: the issue is that you don't get around 3D instability on different hardware
Pastrami Linden: anyway, let's move on because believe me, we're heading in both directions
Zante Zapedzki: thanks : )
Pastrami Linden: browser light clients
Pastrami Linden: [13:41] Yamyam Utorid: Do you know a date when we can transfer custom skies and water? [13:41] Yamyam Utorid: i heard torley speaking about it
Pastrami Linden: tough to say
Pastrami Linden: this quarter we're working on stability
Pastrami Linden: I swear people are going to start saving xml files in notecards and swapping them
Pastrami Linden: :)
Summer Seale: lol
Yamyam Utorid: lol
Keisha Ninetails: oooooh, good idea!
Pastrami Linden: [13:38] Aki Shichiroji: i have noticed that sometimes video on the WL client will freeze completely, but sounds and UI still seem to be usable. I usually have to relog when that happens as well. This was noticed on a PC, with a geforce 8800. [13:39] Aki Shichiroji: is this a known issue?
Pastrami Linden: oh yeah-
Pastrami Linden: I don't think it's a WL issue
Pastrami Linden: happens sometimes in our meetings
AlexanderThe Benelli: I will now go to A)Destory my computer or B) Have a nerd bios *g*
AlexanderThe Benelli: cu @ al
Pastrami Linden: q empty
Aki Shichiroji: hrm. k, will try to find a JIRA for it next it comes to mind.
Pastrami Linden: [13:49] Penn Euler: question: does canoeman know that that joke is over now?
Summer Seale: lol
Pastrami Linden: [13:50] Keisha Ninetails: when will Dazzle be merged with Windlight? any timeframe on this?
Pastrami Linden: within the next month, I'd estimate
Aimee Trescothick: quite a while I hope
Summer Seale: YAY!
Aimee Trescothick: uh oh :(
Summer Seale: month! =)
Summer Seale: that was fast
Pastrami Linden: no guarantees
Spaceman Opus: optional, I hope?
Pastrami Linden: 't ain't m'team!
Summer Seale: how..hasty. how...unlike ents.
Keisha Ninetails: oki, because I'm not ready to give up a pretty world for a pretty ui yet
Pastrami Linden: [13:51] Zante Zapedzki: any plans to move into space? or will SL always be on terra firma
Zante Zapedzki: ;p
Pastrami Linden: hehe,
Yamyam Utorid: woah
Pastrami Linden: there are always talk about different planets, etc.
Yamyam Utorid: space would rock
Summer Seale: it would.
Pastrami Linden: too far reaching for me ATM
Pastrami Linden: :)
Jeremy Linden: We already have one Space Linden....
Spaceman Opus: aw!
Aimee Trescothick: I won't ask nasty questions like "why is the new colour scheme being pushed in before user skinning?" then ;)
Pastrami Linden: [13:52] Mastorian Kingsford: when will they allow font size setings in sl cript so we can see it better
Spaceman Opus: so much for my application
Pastrami Linden: lol
Pastrami Linden: Mastorian
Summer Seale: it would give us with ships something to do.
Pastrami Linden: no idea
Yamyam Utorid: yeah thats right
Zante Zapedzki: and our heads could explode in the vaccuum
Yamyam Utorid: lol
Pastrami Linden: couldn't you fake space?
Aimee Trescothick: or more importantly "why does it use the documented worst colour combinations for eyestrain?"
Pastrami Linden: using WL
Zante Zapedzki: using WL, yes
Zante Zapedzki: you can get a very neat atmosphere effect
Pastrami Linden: make the water black
Yamyam Utorid: sky black make a giant prim with planet textures and there ya go
Zante Zapedzki: black sky above and hazy blue horizon below
Summer Seale: sim sizes sorta limit the usability of ships on a purely enjoyment level. just a note. space would be a lot more fun.
Zante Zapedzki: soace gives us a chance to work in instanced zones ; )
Zante Zapedzki: no neighbours
Dimitrio Lewis: it would be neat to have a vehicles area which wasn't a regular sim
Summer Seale: ya
Summer Seale: and while you're at it, you can also code up TheForce(tm) to go with all of that and tie it all together.
Zante Zapedzki: :p
Jeremy Linden: Duct tape serves the same purpose.
Summer Seale: i was about to say
Jeremy Linden: Light side, dark side, holds the universe together.
Summer Seale: light side, dark side..
Summer Seale: right
Summer Seale: great minds think alike =)
Zante Zapedzki: so do ants!
Keisha Ninetails: someone kick Bao, I think he fell asleep
Mastorian Kingsford: lol
Summer Seale: lol
Jeremy Linden: It worked!
Summer Seale: it worked!
Summer Seale: lol!
Rebecca Honi: lol.
Keisha Ninetails: hehe
Mastorian Kingsford: look thats violence at the ll work place
Mastorian Kingsford: :-)
Jeremy Linden sits next to the giant bin full of nerf weapons.
Summer Seale: i bet they're throwing stuff at each other over their cubicle walls right now.
Yamyam Utorid: lol it fell in the water
Pastrami Linden: [13:55] Mastorian Kingsford: ok why is the option forced for high ground textures in wl the other clients allow you to have more control over the options a few players i know can not get wl too boot since last client came out?
Pastrami Linden: that's a lot fo questions
Pastrami Linden: :)
Mastorian Kingsford: you notice Pastrami always has a frying pan when he comes to meeting
Pastrami Linden: always prepared
Summer Seale: i'm always wondering when he's gonna hand out sandwiches..
Pastrami Linden: Mastorian, not sure about the ground textures-
Pastrami Linden: there shouldn't be a difference-
Aimee Trescothick: ooh, Tikka mayo roll please
Pastrami Linden: it may be related to our multitexturing issues,
Pastrami Linden: with certain GPUs
Pastrami Linden: on terrain
Pastrami Linden: re: not getting it to boot, just have them try the latest viewers as they come out!
Pastrami Linden: not much else I can say
Pastrami Linden: unless we started going into each of their hw profiles
Mastorian Kingsford: yeah alota ati users say they cant change to lower seting it forces it by shading out the option
Keisha Ninetails: could it have to do with low-rez ground textures no longer being defined?
Mastorian Kingsford: :-)
Pastrami Linden: [13:59] Yamyam Utorid: when wl came out people were saying planar textures were "borked" what is planar
Summer Seale: textures with free travel miles.
Summer Seale: sorry. just kidding. =)
Pastrami Linden: just mapped straight on
Pastrami Linden: [14:00] Summer Seale: are you afraid that some might be turned off of SL with windlight because the perception might be that you are gearing more and more to systems which can handle that sort of rendering level? (i know it's not true, and there are options, but have you considered the reaction some have been having to it?)
Pastrami Linden: Summer, not really, because the new viewers still support older hardware
Pastrami Linden: hence the Low settings
Summer Seale: yes but i know a lot of people who don't use windlight
Pastrami Linden: and re: the general perception because we're putting in new features,
Summer Seale: because they think that
Pastrami Linden: well,
Pastrami Linden: alright, two things
Pastrami Linden: 1) the feature *itself* won't damage anything because they can still run on Low
Pastrami Linden: with probably a better fraerate
Yamyam Utorid: lol
Summer Seale nods
Pastrami Linden: 2) the perception of danger because fo new features?
Pastrami Linden: well,
Pastrami Linden: that's like saying you shouldn't make HDTV
Pastrami Linden: we have to push the product forward
Yamyam Utorid: :O
Summer Seale grins and bites her tongue on mentioning people praying every time you guys do an..upgrade.... =)
Pastrami Linden: I think as the years progress
Pastrami Linden: the bottom will continuously have to rise
Pastrami Linden: this is technology
Pastrami Linden: there's no way around that
Summer Seale: i agree
Pastrami Linden: it's like building websites that need to be backwards compatible with 28.8 modems
Pastrami Linden: after a while, the bottom needs to move p
Pastrami Linden: up
Pastrami Linden: but for the foreseable future,
Pastrami Linden: those lovely Intel integrated cards will still be usuable
Pastrami Linden: usable
Pastrami Linden: [14:06] Penn Euler: proper question this: what specs are recommended to get pretty sky and water effects in WL (as opposed to the minimum specs for running it at all)?
Summer Seale: ok thanks. =)
Pastrami Linden: Go for a GeForce 8800
Pastrami Linden: alright all, time is up!
Mastorian Kingsford: but the texh of today is swinging vista and vista is pushing us back to software based control and wasting the cpus by yanking our gpus and dumbfind them so vista can use its lame os controled hardwar dumb cards
Yamyam Utorid: :(
Summer Seale: \o/ geforce 8800
Pastrami Linden: any last questions?
Pastrami Linden: 5
Mastorian Kingsford: typos
Pastrami Linden: 4
Summer Seale: thanks pastrami!
Penn Euler: yeah, i have one ;)
Pastrami Linden: 3
Pastrami Linden: yes?
Keisha Ninetails: count of 5 today, someones eager to leave... :p
Penn Euler: crap, sorry, i meant I have an 8800, not a question
Yamyam Utorid: :(
Penn Euler: sorry about that, resume the countdown
Yamyam Utorid: :(
Mastorian Kingsford: the extra cpus with gpus is cuting edge tech, vista using cpus as gpus is lower tech lol
Yamyam Utorid: :O me want bouncy script
Pastrami Linden: :)
Summer Seale: ya!
Keisha Ninetails: take a copy
Summer Seale: i grabbed it too =)
Yamyam Utorid: lets play glowing football
Pastrami Linden: 3
Summer Seale: thank you keisha =)
Pastrami Linden: 2
Pastrami Linden: 1
Pastrami Linden: later all!