Open Source Meeting/2009-01-08

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Agenda

Default agenda (barring agenda above):

Transcript

  • [14:02] Gordon Wendt: was just about to IM you two to remind you :)
  • [14:03] Rob Linden: hi all!
  • [14:03] Q Linden: wouldn't miss it for the (virtual) world
  • [14:03] Rob Linden: looks at the agenda
  • [14:03] Rob Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
  • [14:03] Rob Linden: looks like we have a few things on there
  • [14:04] Rob Linden: let's dig in
  • [14:04] Rob Linden: # VWR-11293[c
  • [14:05] Gordon Wendt: shouldn't be changed, there are perfectly legitimate reasons to have this information for debugging purposes
  • [14:05] Gordon Wendt: is tired of people thinking up bs reasons to remove viewer features
  • [14:05] Rob Linden: we discussed this one this morning, and closed it as "won't finish", so don't worry
  • [14:05] Soft Linden: For your own clothing, this information is still sent down to the viewer whether it's displayed there or not.
  • [14:06] Gordon Wendt: this used to be available on the main viewer to anyone if you remember, you could easily get the UUID of any object
  • [14:06] Gordon Wendt: or texture
  • [14:06] Carjay McGinnis: not for others though I think
  • [14:06] Gordon Wendt: I won't ramble though, good to hear about that
  • [14:06] Rob Linden: shall we move on?
  • [14:06] Robin Cornelius: sure
  • [14:06] Rob Linden: SVC-3626[c
  • [14:07] Robin Cornelius: part of my inventory testing/abuse
  • [14:07] Rob Linden: thanks for the legwork!
  • [14:07] Robin Cornelius: i've posted some libsl/libomv snippets than can be used to repro the issues
  • [14:07] Rob Linden: oh...heck, just need to import
  • [14:07] Rob Linden: does that now
  • [14:08] Tammy Nowotny: hello!
  • [14:08] Robin Cornelius: yea i think there are a couple of sanity checks needed server side
  • [14:09] Robin Cornelius: for this and the next issue, and thats pertty much all, although i do now have a trashed inventory on beta grid and i also know some AVs who have issues like i have generated on Main and support has been littl ehelp
  • [14:09] Tammy Nowotny: LOL wrong group tag :-)
  • [14:09] Tammy Nowotny: now I have the right ine on
  • [14:09] Robin Cornelius: i think soft said before if i give the account names some one would have a poke
  • [14:09] Robin Cornelius: on beta
  • [14:10] Soft Linden: right
  • [14:10] Rob Linden: I just imported that one as well
  • [14:10] Gordon Wendt: that last one sounds scarily bad
  • [14:10] Gordon Wendt: although you can only invoke it on purpose right?
  • [14:10] Robin Cornelius: well feel free to poke mine on beta, i now only have a trash and a lost and found plus some top level folders, i've lost everything else
  • [14:11] Carjay McGinnis: hehe
  • [14:11] Carjay McGinnis: good work :)
  • [14:11] Rob Linden: I could easily see a viewer bug tickling this problem
  • [14:11] Rob Linden: but it seems there's no known viewer bugs that do
  • [14:12] Gordon Wendt: yet :)
  • [14:12] Robin Cornelius: well an edge case could feed bad data
  • [14:12] Aimee Trescothick: what happens if you set the parent UUID to one in someone else's inventory? :D
  • [14:12] Robin Cornelius: Aimee tried that, its all good
  • [14:12] Gordon Wendt: you'd hope that the server would disallow that
  • [14:12] Aimee Trescothick:  :)
  • [14:12] Aimee Trescothick: lol
  • [14:12] Rob Linden: glad to hear that
  • [14:12] Robin Cornelius: you can set the UUID to that but you get the correct inventory, no cross avatar stuff
  • [14:12] Gordon Wendt: wow, chat lag
  • [14:13] Aimee Trescothick: phew lol
  • [14:13] Robin Cornelius: i guess the SQL is better than that
  • [14:13] Carjay McGinnis: oh, that would have been something...
  • [14:13] Tammy Nowotny: wasn't there a minor explot where someone cd upload a texture on the beta grod and use it on the main grid?
  • [14:14] Rob Linden: doesn't know
  • [14:14] Carjay McGinnis: I tried that, didn't work and would be a bit too simple, lol
  • [14:14] Carjay McGinnis: or was there a trick?
  • [14:14] Rob Linden: anyway, consider both handed off. thanks again for narrowing those down!
  • [14:14] Gordon Wendt: I know there are a ton of sloppy coders that do http calls without checking the shard to see what grid it's on which can lead to some interesting results
  • [14:15] Rob Linden: I think we're to the end of the agenda, short of going to the default list
  • [14:16] Rob Linden: updates from Lindens: I've been puttering around on build instructions when I get time
  • [14:16] Tammy Nowotny: an OT thing... if anyone happens to know anything about open source for RL vote counting, I may end some expert info
  • [14:16] Robin Cornelius: Oh i had one more, but the wiki went read only
  • [14:16] Gordon Wendt: it's been a bit funky today
  • [14:16] Thickbrick Sleaford: well, I have something to add: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11160
  • [14:17] Gordon Wendt: The Lindens probably forgot to feed the hampsters
  • [14:17] Thickbrick Sleaford: you asked for people to search for patches and group them... I did that for UI pathecs in VWR-11160, but I'm not sure that's what you wanted
  • [14:17] Rob Linden: Tammy: off topic for this meeting, but that is a hobby of mine. latest thing I've seen that's very cool is this: http://selectricity.org/ ...we can talk sometime after this meeting
  • [14:17] Carjay McGinnis: they went dancing, Gordon (the hampsters)
  • [14:17] Q Linden: runs off for more hamster food
  • [14:18] Tammy Nowotny: thanks Rob
  • [14:18] Robin Cornelius: I grouped some build system related patches under http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11142, but i saw you triaged that earlier i think
  • [14:18] Rob Linden: Thickbrick ... thanks, that's the general idea
  • [14:18] Gordon Wendt: Rob, I have a question for you for after the meeting to
  • [14:18] Thickbrick Sleaford: I wasn't sure if I'm being too inclusive with it
  • [14:19] Rob Linden: both Tammy and Gordon, I have a meeting immediately after this one, so you'll have to IM me some time after that
  • [14:19] Tammy Nowotny: that's cool
  • [14:19] Mm Alder: Is the goal to get VWR-11160 into 1.23 RC?
  • [14:19] Gordon Wendt: ok, although if this meeting is pretty much over now we're scheduled for another 40 minutes right?
  • [14:19] Rob Linden: Thickbrick: that was a thought that crossed our minds, but it wasn't so far off the mark as to nitpick
  • [14:20] Thickbrick Sleaford: heh
  • [14:20] Gordon Wendt: back on the topic of open source have there been any source or build library issues on the JIRA lately since those seem to pop up all the time
  • [14:21] Gordon Wendt: normally xyz mispelling in the source or this library is in the wrong place etc....
  • [14:21] Khyota Wulluf: the NDOF one maybe?
  • [14:21] Rob Linden: Gordon, that's actually the subject of Robin's meta issue
  • [14:21] Gordon Wendt: shuts up and goes back to reading the JIRA
  • [14:21] Rob Linden: which reminds me, proposals for the RFP at VWR-11142(?) are due Monday
  • [14:22] Robin Cornelius: heh, mine tend to be things that are patchable by us outside LL however rather than things effecting export links etc
  • [14:22] Rob Linden: oops, wrong number
  • [14:22] Q Linden: mm: 11160 may not be in time to get to 1.23, but it's now in the queue for maintenance to start looking over it
  • [14:22] Rob Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11114
  • [14:22] Rob Linden: VWR-11142 is the meta issue Robin filed
  • [14:23] Rob Linden: (which, I have it on my list to link those two, humorously enough)
  • [14:24] Robin Cornelius: i think most of them are strighforward enough, the fmod library location is the worst as the manifest is hard coded in inux and not generated by cmake liek the VS equilvant
  • [14:25] Robin Cornelius: but thats only an issue after build, it at least completes the build with fmod out of tree
  • [14:25] Robin Cornelius: the VS express is a nasty one and hitting a lot of new builders
  • [14:26] Gordon Wendt: somewhat surprised that the install for user instead of install for all users issue wasn't caught earlier
  • [14:26] Rob Linden: Gordon, which issue are you talking about?
  • [14:26] Gordon Wendt: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11128
  • [14:26] Robin Cornelius: yea but cmake and python both seem to make a hash of that with there own paths as well
  • [14:26] Gordon Wendt: just adding a second registry check
  • [14:27] Gordon Wendt: so simple, which is probably why nobody thought of it
  • [14:27] Robin Cornelius: i've also seen that it was necessary to run SET PATH=%PATH%;c:/Python26 to even be able to run develop.py
  • [14:27] Robin Cornelius: no matter what options python was installed with
  • [14:27] Carjay McGinnis: oh, why?
  • [14:27] Robin Cornelius: thats some kind of related user/system wide permissions error on install
  • [14:28] Carjay McGinnis: doesn't it add itself to the path?
  • [14:28] Robin Cornelius: no
  • [14:28] Robin Cornelius: not in some situations
  • [14:28] Carjay McGinnis: ok, usually it should though
  • [14:28] Robin Cornelius: it offers this user only or system wide and on this laptop it failed to set the path on either option
  • [14:29] Carjay McGinnis: I always use for all users, hm, ok
  • [14:29] Robin Cornelius: i've had other systems behave differently and set the path correctly
  • [14:30] Mm Alder: "Update from the Lindens (standing item) - Rob Linden"
  • [14:31] Rob Linden: Mm: yeah, I started in on that, and then we got on the other topics
  • [14:31] Rob Linden: should we move to that now?
  • [14:32] Rob Linden: More of my update: We continue to work with Torch Mobile on QtWebkit prototyping. The Chrome/Webkit work for Windows was not ready for what we wanted to do
  • [14:32] Carjay McGinnis: oh, ok
  • [14:32] Rob Linden: Here's the git log of the latest work: http://code.staikos.net/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=llmozlib;a=shortlog;h=qtwebkit
  • [14:33] Robin Cornelius: have not checked that for a while
  • [14:33] Rob Linden: we'd love for folks to give that work a spin and see if you think it's ready for prime time
  • [14:34] Khyota Wulluf: ooo
  • [14:35] Rob Linden: we haven't yet done an integrated build into Second Life yet
  • [14:35] Khyota Wulluf: is this a drop in relacement for LLmozlib at this point?
  • [14:35] Rob Linden: Khyota: pretty much
  • [14:35] Rob Linden: it actually uses the llmozlib interface
  • [14:35] Robin Cornelius: ah cool, so a bit of crowbaring into a dynamic lib and it might be testable as is
  • [14:36] Robin Cornelius: dosn't do static mozlib
  • [14:36] Rob Linden: Robin: Possibly, though I think there was a change or two to the interface
  • [14:36] Rob Linden: you should take a look at the diffs for ubrowser itself....I think it's only a couple line change
  • [14:37] Robin Cornelius: thats were the crowbar comes in, its not a massively complex api, one end or the other can be atched
  • [14:37] Robin Cornelius: *patched
  • [14:37] Khyota: paws at Robin's tail batting it back and forth.
  • [14:38] Robin Cornelius: i should check it out, it might be valid to roll for omvviewer as it stands, and drop the crazyness i do with backported xulrunner
  • [14:38] Khyota Wulluf: sorry couldnt resist :)
  • [14:38] Robin Cornelius: heh
  • [14:38] Rob Linden: Robin: yeah, that'd be very cool. I think you might be able to get away with stock components
  • [14:38] Robin Cornelius: woot
  • [14:39] Rob Linden: iirc, they have it working for both Qt 4.4 and 4.5pre
  • [14:40] Rob Linden: I think that's it for my update
  • [14:40] Rob Linden: Q or Soft, is there anything you wanted to bring up about what you're working on?
  • [14:40] Soft Linden: Not specifically for my work, but it's worth noting -
  • [14:41] Soft Linden: The layout of the svn has changed a bit, and will follow a different policy going forward...
  • [14:41] Soft Linden: In order to avoid having one massive directory of branches, there are yearly branches, and we've archived all the inactive 2008 branches to branches/2008 for now...
  • [14:41] Soft Linden: going forward, 2009 one-off branches will be created directly in 2009/ rather than in branches/
  • [14:42] Soft Linden: That way we're not breaking every reference to those branches once each year.
  • [14:42] Khyota Wulluf: yay
  • [14:42] Soft Linden: The branches that will iterate "forever" - maint-viewer, maint-render, etc - will stay in branches/ and we're going to stop using the numbering system.
  • [14:42] Soft Linden: So there won't be maint-render-12, maint-render-13... everything will stay in maint-render
  • [14:42] Soft Linden: That's all
  • [14:43] Q Linden: Well, the notifications stuff I've been working on for ages finally managed to rise to the top of hte merge queue and was merged to trunk this week.
  • [14:43] Tammy Nowotny: sounds like a very good idea to me, Soft
  • [14:43] Aimee Trescothick: I've been looking at that Q :)
  • [14:43] Q Linden:  :)
  • [14:43] Aimee Trescothick: Ctrl-Shift-N \o/
  • [14:43] Q Linden: heh
  • [14:43] Khyota Wulluf: ctrl shift N whats?
  • [14:43] Q Linden: From the loginscreen
  • [14:43] Khyota Wulluf: im compilining it now
  • [14:44] Rob Linden: much code was touched by that
  • [14:44] Rob Linden: iirc
  • [14:44] Q Linden: pops up a list of all the notifications in the system, along with a queue browser so you can see where it flows through the system
  • [14:44] Aimee Trescothick: can send myself friend requests when I'm feeling lonely :P
  • [14:44] Khyota Wulluf: giggles
  • [14:44] Q Linden: you can test notifications (not completely, but at least see if stuff is basically working)
  • [14:44] Tammy Nowotny: hopes complining is typomse for "cpmpiling" rather than "complaining"
  • [14:44] Robin Cornelius: by notifications is thatall improved instant messages or more than just that?
  • [14:45] Q Linden: robin, it changest he structure for how we do ad-hoc popups
  • [14:45] Q Linden: changes the callback model to one that's more robust across future changes
  • [14:45] Q Linden: permits internationalization of serverside messages with parameters
  • [14:45] Aimee Trescothick: time to start playing with Growl notifications integration :)
  • [14:45] Q Linden: unifies three different APIs into the One True Way
  • [14:45] Robin Cornelius: nice
  • [14:46] Q Linden: Aimee, that was considered...but growl is output-only -0- doesn't do responses
  • [14:46] Q Linden: so it could replace the lower-right ones, but that's about it
  • [14:46] Aimee Trescothick: ah right, yeah
  • [14:46] Q Linden: still, though -- it's worth a look
  • [14:46] Tammy Nowotny: it wd be good to have the dfferent types of pop ups be in different queues... that wasy we don't accept blind TPs by mistake while clickiing thru other dialog boxes, for example
  • [14:46] Q Linden: Funny, tammy -- that's what it does.
  • [14:46] Q Linden:  :)
  • [14:47] Q Linden: well, that's what it enables
  • [14:47] Tammy Nowotny: excellent!
  • [14:47] Aimee Trescothick: would still be nice to get a nudge from growl when the window's out of focus
  • [14:47] Q Linden: we haven't changed the actual renderers much for this pass
  • [14:48] Rob Linden: it's a toolkit for devs to start experimenting
  • [14:48] Q Linden: take note in particular about the new model for callbacks based on boost::signals
  • [14:48] Mm Alder: Is that the major new feature for 1.23 or do we have other stuff to look forward to?
  • [14:49] Q Linden: Heh. It's a significant architectural change but it's almost invisible to end users
  • [14:49] Q Linden: But we've got a ton of small fixes in 1.23 -- the Sustaining team has been busy this quarter.
  • [14:50] Tammy Nowotny: when does the 1.23 RC become available?
  • [14:51] Mm Alder: It's always hard to figure what's coming down the trunk because there are no release notes until RC time.
  • [14:51] Rob Linden: our patch incorporation rate is way up thanks to the work that Q and Soft and the other folks in Sustaining have been doing
  • [14:51] Khyota Wulluf: has been trying to help a bit too
  • [14:51] Tammy Nowotny: the 122 RCs have been awesome
  • [14:52] Q Linden: Tammy, probably March
  • [14:52] Aimee Trescothick: I noticed a patch sneak in to featurettes to do the land brush size as an F32 instead of the fixed sizes btw, do you happen to know if the server side bit of that is in place yet?
  • [14:53] Aimee Trescothick: haven't actually tried it to find out
  • [14:53] Tammy Nowotny: and in the eantime there is the battery Street Irregular program which I jusrt learned about 20 mins ago
  • [14:54] Mm Alder: Tammy, what's that?
  • [14:54] Rob Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Public_Nightly
  • [14:54] Tammy Nowotny: well there are the kiosks behind us with a notevacard vendor
  • [14:54] Thickbrick Sleaford: also the sign to your left with the missing \n in the hovertext
  • [14:54] Thickbrick Sleaford: heh
  • [14:55] Aimee Trescothick: LOL
  • [14:55] Soft Linden: Ha, never noticed that before
  • [14:55] Rob Linden: we get a lot of good feedback from that program
  • [14:55] Soft Linden: I always fly in from this side.
  • [14:56] Aimee Trescothick: yes, and we're sat in the "(UndHippotroplis Theater"
  • [14:56] Khyota Wulluf: but whats the diff from that, and compiling from SVN?
  • [14:56] Rob Linden: Khyota: not too much , other than more formal notification of when we're really looking for feedback and when we aren't
  • [14:56] Carjay McGinnis: hm, sounds German
  • [14:56] Rob Linden: ....and more intensive scrutiny of the issues that come in
  • [14:57] Khyota Wulluf: but this is for upcoming RC's not trunk?
  • [14:57] Rob Linden: Khyota, that's true
  • [14:58] Khyota Wulluf: nods
  • [14:58] Rob Linden: well, we're just about out of time
  • [14:58] Rob Linden: anything else before we scurry away?
  • [14:59] Rob Linden: going once....
  • [14:59] Rob Linden: twice....
  • [14:59] Aimee Trescothick: Run while you can ;)
  • [14:59] Rob Linden: w00t!
  • [14:59] Rob Linden:  :)
  • [14:59] Rob Linden: thanks everyone!
  • [14:59] Soft Linden: Ha - take care, all
  • [15:00] Aimee Trescothick: waves :)
  • [15:00] Robin Cornelius: See ya all around
  • [15:00] Tammy Nowotny: LOL. TY Rob
  • [15:00] Carjay McGinnis: hehe, thanks and bye Rob
  • [15:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: see you
  • [15:00] Carjay McGinnis: bye Soft, Q
  • [15:00] Home: Going: to home
  • [15:00] Carjay McGinnis: bye everyone