Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.07.15

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Simulator_User_Group

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List of Speakers

Adamburp Adamczyk Dolphin Linden Inara Pey
Jenna Felton Kennylex Luckless Lucia Nightfire
MB Robonaught Mona Eberhardt Motor Loon
Nalates Urriah Qie Niangao Rex Cronon
Simon Linden Tankmaster Finesmith Theresa Tennyson
Yuzuru Jewell

Transcript

[12:01] Simon Linden: Let's see ... we can start with the release news as usual : http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2014-07-14/td-p/2773280

[12:01] Simon Linden: This week the schedule is different, with some of the RC rolls on Thursday instead of Wednesday

[12:02] Simon Linden: The main channel was updated today with the experience tools server

[12:02] Adamburp Adamczyk: happy rezzday Si

[12:02] Adamburp Adamczyk: from 11th

[12:02] Kennylex Luckless: Hello Dolphin

[12:03] Dolphin Linden: hello

[12:03] Rex Cronon: hello dolphin

[12:03] Kriss (krisshall): hi

[12:03] MB Robonaught: hi dolphin

[12:03] Simon Linden: and a new server that supports the "skill gaming" regions that was recently announced will also go out

[12:03] Inara Pey: Hey, Dolphin!

[12:03] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Dolphin.

[12:03] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Dolphin!

[12:03] MB Robonaught: skill gaming?

[12:03] Simon Linden: ah good, Dolphin is here to field experience tools questions :)

[12:04] Dolphin Linden: all answered with 'no comment' simon

[12:04] Rex Cronon: mb its how ll controls "skilled games" :)

[12:04] Simon Linden: that's how I do most questions too :)

[12:04] Kennylex Luckless: The XP thing in the Cornfield do strange thing with navigation

[12:04] Seewo (siwo): Does this skill gaming thing mean there be no casinos on mainland anymore?

[12:04] Kennylex Luckless: it some time turn me around.

[12:04] MB Robonaught: I figured that lol

[12:04] Martin RJ (martinrj): not funny

[12:04] Simon Linden: right, let's get skilled gaming out of the way ... http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Coming-Soon-Skill-Gaming-in-Second-Life/ba-p/2771080

[12:05] Simon Linden: That's our main announcement on it

[12:05] Kriss (krisshall): secret casinos, but games by skill should be better

[12:05] Jenna Felton: the number of usr groups is lowered?

[12:05] Rex Cronon: crying won't solve anything martinrj

[12:05] Simon Linden: There are links from there to other pages such as a FAQ, how to qualify, etc

[12:05] Motor Loon: Seems it would have been simlar just banning gambling all together? - you expect many to make use of this new setup?

[12:06] Motor Loon: "simlar" = simpler

[12:06] Martin RJ (martinrj): it would be great if LL would really ban gambling games with this new policy, instead of secretly legalizing them

[12:06] MB Robonaught: would this include auto racing?

[12:06] Martin RJ (martinrj): that's my big hope

[12:06] Rex Cronon: an 100usd initial fee for both creators and operators:(

[12:07] Kennylex Luckless: What happen now if I know a game of chance on mainland but where the user are a lifetime user that not has logged in under several years?

[12:07] Seewo (siwo): that one machine in Natoma, Kenny? :D

[12:07] Simon Linden: I know there are tons of questions around skilled gaming, policy, laws, etc. I don't have the answers since I spend my time in code. Well, that and meetings.

[12:08] Qie Niangao: A game of chance, you say? On Mainland? Shocked! Shocked I tell you!

[12:08] Jenna Felton: question about skill gaming regions. will that be a concurrent rating to G/M/A?, I.E will we have a fourth rating or the skill gamble regions can be also general, mature and adult at same time?

[12:08] Jenna Felton: ah ok

[12:08] Seewo (siwo): there are actually 3 GIANT "game of chance" casinos on mainland :D

[12:08] Simon Linden: and it really is a legal and policy issue ... so I'd suggest reading and posting your questions on the forum thread. I know Lindens read it.

[12:09] Rex Cronon: simon. that thread is huge. have u read it from begining to end?

[12:09] Simon Linden: Jenna - no, as of now it doesn't show up as a badge in the ratings or anything.

[12:10] Yuzuru Jewell: Please tell me the URL of that thread.

[12:10] Simon Linden: I'm sure it'll be considered as the feature evolves

[12:10] Qie Niangao: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Skill-Gaming-Policy-Thread/td-p/2771090

[12:10] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Qie.

[12:10] Kriss (krisshall): would need to be careful, the cornfield game at any rate had blood and other stuff (only briefly glimpsed it, though)

[12:11] Kriss (krisshall): violence where i am would be less General than sexual stuff, arguably, or profanity

[12:11] Simon Linden: Here's an FAQ that is ample reading ... it's a good place to start: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Second_Life_Skill_Gaming_FAQ

[12:12] Simon Linden: So I can keep pasting more links and telling you guys to read them, but if anyone has other questions or topics ... like maybe experience tools ... please speak up

[12:12] Adamburp Adamczyk: i have a question

[12:12] Simon Linden: go for it

[12:12] Adamburp Adamczyk: since dolphin's gone afk can you move his chair into th e water?

[12:12] Seewo (siwo): :D

[12:13] Dolphin Linden: shh

[12:13] Adamburp Adamczyk: give him a bath?

[12:13] Adamburp Adamczyk: *CENSORED*

[12:13] Theresa Tennyson: He'd probably short out.

[12:13] Nalates Urriah: How many have been to the new Corn Field?

[12:13] Inara Pey: Yup

[12:13] MB Robonaught: is it remotely possible that the experience tools could cause a random break in script communications for a region? I'm trying to tracce a problem for a JIRA

[12:14] Martin RJ (martinrj): I have

[12:14] Nalates Urriah: http://blog.nalates.net/2014/07/15/second-lifes-corn-field-reopens/

[12:14] Kriss (krisshall): do you mean the game of skill cornfield (without a space), or? if so, yes

[12:14] Martin RJ (martinrj): I think it's so full of bugs, it's not worth the time (most of them clientside, and known issues)

[12:14] Dolphin Linden: xp tools shouldn't have anything to do with script comms

[12:14] Kriss (krisshall): saw few issues with it, other than some puzzles being maybe a bit tricky or obscure, but fun

[12:15] Dolphin Linden: though, anything is possible of course

[12:15] MB Robonaught: I didn't think so but wanted to confirm

[12:15] Theresa Tennyson: Kriss "games of skills" and "experiences" are completely separate things.

[12:15] Kriss (krisshall): ah :/, *studies the afk*

[12:15] Dolphin Linden: yes theresa, separate projects

[12:16] MB Robonaught: my rehion is just acting strange now and then since it was first deployed is all...maybe it's just haunted lol

[12:16] Motor Loon: I'm having wierd stuff happen too with my regions, but not with the script comms though.

[12:17] Simon Linden: That seems to happen sometimes in the grid ... it can get cranky

[12:17] Martin RJ (martinrj): I wonder why I can't revoke the permissions for the Cornfield experience

[12:17] MB Robonaught: other regions are having permission glitches

[12:17] Martin RJ (martinrj): the button to remove the experience is greyed out

[12:17] Dolphin Linden: you will need to be on a magnum region

[12:17] Dolphin Linden: until tomorrow

[12:17] MB Robonaught: I am a magnum region

[12:17] Mona Eberhardt: Ohai Whirly.

[12:17] Motor Loon: I'd like to ask regarding current simcrossing issues we've been seeing in our estate. Is there currently special issues going on - and if so, is there a JIRA on it that I've missed? (it's crossings on vehicles between certain sims, seems in my test that I can make it fail every single time, between multiple sims - and despite sims being restarted. - of crouse that's nothing new per say, but I'm seeing the avatar taking ages to cross, and when it does the vehicle he was on is taking atleast 30 secs. longer, but results in the avatar being visually delinked from the vehicle, but the system still think he's sitting on it - aside from being a problem for the driving experience, it also seems to circumvent autoreturn leaving vehicles behind that should have been autoreturned but don't because the system thinks it's being sat on)?

[12:17] Dolphin Linden: then it should work anywhere

[12:18] Martin RJ (martinrj): removing the Cornfield experience should work anywhere tomorrow?

[12:18] Qie Niangao: I haven't had much luck with exp.tools yet, but I've been making a lot of stupid mistakes (like trying on a LeTigre region for a while, duh)... but I'm curious: There's a "group_id" thing mentioned in llGetExperienceDetails, and there's a Group setting in the profile floater, but I'm not sure it's real.

[12:18] Dolphin Linden: if you opened the profile on a non-magnum region you might need to reopen it on one (like here)

[12:19] Martin RJ (martinrj): ah ok, ty

[12:19] Simon Linden: Motor - I haven't heard about any new region crossing problems. That code hasn't been touched in a while.

[12:20] Dolphin Linden: Qie: take a look at http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Experiences-in-Second-Life/ta-p/2744686#Section_.4.3

[12:20] Dolphin Linden: (experience collaboration)

[12:21] Dolphin Linden: the group is used, along with group powers to allow other people to create scripts for your experience

[12:22] Qie Niangao: ah, cool, thanks... but I seem not to get that value returned (though set) in the list from llGetExperienceDetails.... or maybe I didn't wait long enough for it to update, or was just doing it wrong.

[12:22] Kriss (krisshall): could let you divide work up for it

[12:22] Rex Cronon: so, u can't buy scripts for a group experience?

[12:22] Dolphin Linden: okay, if that is the case then that sounds like a bug :)

[12:23] Qie Niangao: I'll play some more before filing a jira. I'm very capable of confusing myself. :p

[12:23] Dolphin Linden: I am not sure what you mean rex

[12:23] Dolphin Linden: the experience is set on a script when it is saved

[12:23] Dolphin Linden: if that script is transferred to someone else the script still has the experience

[12:24] Rex Cronon: lets say i make a script. somebody can't buy the script for me to use it in their group experience. does script creator have to be member of the group experience?

[12:24] Dolphin Linden: but the new person cannot modify the script and keep the experience unless they are in the group and have the experience contributor power

[12:25] Motor Loon: I did multiple cross-tests today, and can provide some times & sim names, if you wish to look up the server logs and try to see what went wrong? for example: 9:27am SLT crossing from "Mohave Desert" to "Two Guns". Avatar went thru after a bit, but vehicle came 30secs later causing the mentioned problem. Again at 9:39am same result. Crossing between "Cadillac Ranch TX" and into "Sunset Crater" at 19:25am SLT left me standing for a good 30 secs. before I saw the vehicle enter the region also (without me sitting on it). Again 10:38am. and many other tries - between certain sims going one way would fail EVERY time, while the other way was just slower than normal. Other sims in the estate was working just fine (like normal) where'd I'd experience almost instant crossings on my vehicle like I've usually been able to.

[12:25] Qie Niangao: I guess, if you wanted to buy and combine a bunch of scripts into one experience, you'd need source. I think.

[12:25] Dolphin Linden: yes, you need source

[12:25] Dolphin Linden: you cannot change the experience without source

[12:25] Rex Cronon: u realize dolphin that not all scripters sell the source

[12:26] Qie Niangao: makes sense, considering the risk

[12:26] Dolphin Linden: of course

[12:26] Dolphin Linden: but I know I would not assign my experience to a script that i cant see the source for

[12:26] Simon Linden: ok Motor - can you create a BUG jira and put the info in there, then IM me the number? I'll take a look in the logs and see if there's anything interesting

[12:26] Theresa Tennyson: Motor, I saw a similar problem with a region near my aunt's region and it was fixed by having the two regions started in a special way to re-sync them.

[12:27] Motor Loon: Will do Simon

[12:27] Dolphin Linden: because it could be doing something to grief people and get my experience reported, or it could trash my key value database

[12:28] Kriss (krisshall): makes sense, the owner of that experience should do what they can to control what happens with it

[12:28] Rex Cronon: lol. it makes no sense

[12:29] Simon Linden: Thanks ... and there's a lot of ways crossings can go bad, but these sound like a simulator or server is getting overloaded or confused and stalled somehow. Are these homestead regions, by any chance?

[12:29] Rex Cronon: when u buy windos os do u see the source:)

[12:29] Rex Cronon: windows*

[12:29] Qie Niangao: Well, but Rex, not all software is Windows.

[12:29] Kriss (krisshall): no you don't, and it's probably full of issues, NSA-related things, and uses security by obscurity

[12:29] Kriss (krisshall): although that *could* work

[12:29] Motor Loon: Those mentioned was crossings betweeen full sims and a homestead.

[12:30] Motor Loon: We dont have two full sims side by side, so I haven't been able to test that.

[12:30] Kriss (krisshall): keeping your code private is fine, but open code would let you see what happens in it, also helps that all be caught, although entirely separate than being open in the above sense

[12:30] Adamburp Adamczyk: you know most of the LL ocen sims are homesteads

[12:31] Rex Cronon: this way u r forcing scripters to use open source if they want to create scripts fro experiences:(

[12:31] Adamburp Adamczyk: so you CAN test with two homesteads next to each other

[12:31] Dolphin Linden: your scripts can still talk to xp scripts

[12:31] Dolphin Linden: so you would need to set up an interface with the person you are selling your script to

[12:31] Dolphin Linden: if you dont want to give them source

[12:31] Kriss (krisshall): if there are ways

[12:32] Simon Linden: ok ... the homesteads, having less horsepower, tend to get overloaded easier

[12:32] Motor Loon: yeah but this is something new

[12:32] Qie Niangao: I think the experience *permissions* scripts can be trivial compared to the rest of the scripts that make up the experience, so you open the permissions stuff and leave the rest closed (if you want it to be like a no-EULA product... which is a different kind of experience, but maybe still useful)

[12:32] Motor Loon: not the occasional "regular" crossing failure

[12:32] Rex Cronon: kriss.there is so much opensource code that lots of people look at it and still have no idea what it does:) u have heard of the latest linux security hole:)

[12:33] Dolphin Linden: Rex, it is also possible that you can contract with an experience owner to create scripts for their experience

[12:33] Kriss (krisshall): late

[12:33] Dolphin Linden: they can add you to the group if they trust you enough to write code for their xp

[12:33] Lucia Nightfire: I had RL to do, sucks some times

[12:34] Dolphin Linden: the point is not open source vs closed source, it is the responsibility

[12:34] Kriss (krisshall): and yes, there's tonnes f open source code, so much so that many eyes making all bugs shallow mightn't quite work (you'd run out of eyes)

[12:34] Rex Cronon: yes dolphin but u can no longer sell blackboxes to everybody

[12:34] Dolphin Linden: when a script is associated with an xp, it is now the responsibilty of the xp owner

[12:34] Rex Cronon: that is what contracts r for dolphin:)

[12:34] Kriss (krisshall): if they let that be closed up like that, it could cause other grief, you'd need a way of helping people know, understand, and control what they're responsible for

[12:35] Kriss (krisshall): if something helps do that, call it "good"

[12:35] Kriss (krisshall): openness *would* promote something like it (if a lack of control of one's code)

[12:35] Rex Cronon: i don't think that all experience owner will be masters at lsl:)

[12:36] Kriss (krisshall): probably not, given learning curves

[12:36] Kriss (krisshall): actually, is that intended,l like are experience owners meant to be scripters or technical sorts, or land owners?

[12:37] Kriss (krisshall): economically that's different

[12:37] Rex Cronon: so u protect the experience owner, but how do u protect the scripters from being ripped off ?

[12:37] Kriss (krisshall): -l

[12:37] Dolphin Linden: experiences must be enabled at the estate or parcel level

[12:37] Dolphin Linden: specific expeiences

[12:39] Dolphin Linden: but that doesn't have to be land owned by the xp owner

[12:40] Dolphin Linden: and the owner may assign a group to the xp and add people to the group to allow others to work on it, under any terms they see fit

[12:40] Rex Cronon: some scripter could start selling scripts that r obfuscated;) like this(warning wall of text following):

[12:40] Rex Cronon: ? ???? ? ?? ??? ???integer??h?_WauH?????=????h0x6???;??? ?h? ?string?????_Hcsa????h=???"Enter Mouselook (press 'M') to shoot me."??;?? ???string??h?_fGNE???=???"Right-click and choose 'Detach' to take me off."??;? ? ??string????_vKOH???=????"To wear and use me, right click and choose"?h?;?? ???stringh???_pafv????=??"Acquire -> Attach -> Right Hand."?;?? ?h? ???string???_yYL6????=??h"To use this gun, take it (right-click and choose 'Take'.)"?;?? ???string?????_326V????=????"Then, drag it from your inventory onto yourself."?;??? ?? ??? ????? ?h???? ??? ?? ???? ?h?integer?????_f8WP??;??? ?h?? ?integer??h??_zWZf?;??? ?? ??? ?float????_Zi6H???=?h?30.0???;?? ?? ???? ??float????_Evlj??=???0x0??;?? ??? ???float???_iFiJ????=??????0.05??;? ???? ?float???

[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: lll

[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: ...

[12:41] Lucia Nightfire: ...---...

[12:41] Motor Loon: How can that compile?!

[12:41] Chucking Fatlag (whirly.fizzle): I think only you use obfuscated scripts Rex lol

[12:41] Simon Linden: Kriss - we're not trying to ensure experience owners are scripters. But they are the owners - so they are responsible for what they are doing to people using that experience.

[12:41] Lucia Nightfire: unnecessary obfuscation

[12:41] Rex Cronon: its a partial source code motor. and it compiles just fine:)

[12:42] Motor Loon: Seems to me it really shouldn't ?!

[12:42] Kriss (krisshall): ok, thanks, was a bit curious on directions, although i'll find and read FAQs more

[12:42] Qie Niangao: I think this will all be clearer after there's like a library of example experiences, open source, so folks know how to separate out the simple *permissions*-getting and -using stuff from the interesting part of the game/experience, that doesn't need to be compiled within the experience.

[12:42] Object: Hello, Avatar!

[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: I have an important question about exp operation and why a certain option wasn't implemented.

[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: But since I'm not prepared for this meeting, I'll have to be blunt.

[12:42] Kriss (krisshall): blunt may help

[12:43] Dolphin Linden: go for it

[12:43] Lucia Nightfire: Why wasn't a parcel/estate setting implemented like "Allow/Disallow non-exp scripts"

[12:44] Rex Cronon: btw. what lsl functions require experience permissions?

[12:44] Lucia Nightfire: I've talked with many game operators and one of the top problems is people cheating with third party control scripts. Having that setting would definitively prevent anything other than trusted/allow exp scripts

[12:45] Kriss (krisshall): also sometimes to develop something simpler, you may need to go through more complexity to get it (i.e.- throw some stuff together and throw it, see where it lands, *then* draw neater things from that)

[12:45] Chucking Fatlag (whirly.fizzle): Thats a good idea Lucia

[12:45] Kriss (krisshall): actually.. :S

[12:45] Dolphin Linden: i think that is an interesting idea

[12:45] Martin RJ (martinrj): Lucia's question reminds me of an issue with The Cornfield experience: there should be a region switch to disallow flying through admin mode in experience regions

[12:46] Jenna Felton: Rex, that functions: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Experience_Tools

[12:46] Chucking Fatlag (whirly.fizzle): Yeah you can cheat badly in the Cornfield heh

[12:46] Martin RJ (martinrj): I was able to freely fly around in The Cornfield

[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: flying isn't possible unless you have scripts moving you there.

[12:46] Qie Niangao: Rex, and also the stuff that directly uses the permissions grabbed through exp. permissions, like teleportAgent, the actual triggering of animations, attaching a HUD, etc.

[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: or you dctp, heh

[12:46] Chucking Fatlag (whirly.fizzle): Yep

[12:46] Martin RJ (martinrj): it is when I turn on admin mode in the viewer

[12:46] Kriss (krisshall): you could dctp, but then that interferes with the use of the knife thing

[12:46] Dolphin Linden: the only ones that NEED an experience are the key value functions and the ones talking about experiences directly

[12:46] Rex Cronon: than k u jenna

[12:47] Kriss (krisshall): well the way i tried it did

[12:47] Kriss (krisshall): also a way of seeing if someone is using such scripts maybe a good idea

[12:47] Kriss (krisshall): assuming there isn't one

[12:47] Dolphin Linden: most of what will be done with an experience is covered with existing functions, it is just the permissions are easier to get with an experience

[12:47] Lucia Nightfire: Dolphin, I'll file a feature request jira on that issue.

[12:47] Simon Linden: That is interesting ... if you make a Feature Request jira for it, I promise we'll take a serious look at it

[12:47] Kriss (krisshall): i can't believe i'm undermining that, but.. :/

[12:47] Simon Linden: jinx

[12:47] Lucia Nightfire: please let it "cook" for 2 weeks so popular opinion can be argued, heh

[12:48] Lucia Nightfire: ie, commented on

[12:48] Rex Cronon: thanks qie

[12:48] Martin RJ (martinrj): I also think Lucia's request is a great idea

[12:48] Lucia Nightfire: I also have anotehr question on a setting that isn't present

[12:48] Simon Linden: ok - add that in the jira, please, Lucy

[12:48] Rex Cronon: how can i as a scripter test the experience tools without being in a group?

[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: exp perms seems to mirror access to parcels, in that theres an "Allowed" (access) and "Blocked" (banned) list

[12:49] Dolphin Linden: you will need to won an xp rex

[12:49] Dolphin Linden: er own not won

[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: why isn't there a "Allow/Disallow" grid wide experiences setting

[12:49] Kriss (krisshall): prediction: for the no non-exp script things, naughty people will complain, fair people will agree

[12:49] Rex Cronon: i was wodering how do i won one:)

[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: because atm, you have to explicitly enter any exp you want to block

[12:50] Jenna Felton: Lucy, that is a good idea, or a feature request, the checkbox for non-experience scripts running. But scripts generally are able to bypass the no-script setting, by using the take control hack (pretend being vehicle) so, the cheater would stil be able to run non-experience scripts. But despite of that i welcome that setting

[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: there is no way to block experiences

[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: all experiences I mean

[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: *grid-wide

[12:50] Martin RJ (martinrj): Dolphin can you please add a region switch to disallow flying (via admin mode in the experience project viewer it's still possible to fly in The Cornfield while playing the game) in Experience regions (flying via adminmode, that is)

[12:51] Tankmaster Finesmith: thats been a feature of the viewer from the beginning of time

[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: I hope I explained that correctly

[12:51] Qie Niangao: Lucy, I'm confused about this one. You expect to get lots of requests to add grid-wide experiences that you need to pre-block?

[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: theres allow by experience name, and block by experience name, but no block all grid-wide experience option

[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: theres no way to block a grid wide exp on a parcel w/o explcitly knowing the experience to begin with

[12:52] Dolphin Linden: there are no grid-wide experiences except a couple used by linden at this point in time

[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: yes, but they will be allowed

[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: or so I heard a few meetings back

[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: and I think they should really

[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: theres valid use cases

[12:53] Dolphin Linden: when we make them available to residents we should add in some extra controls for that

[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: ok, great

[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: I probably should still file a feature request jira for future reference

[12:54] Dolphin Linden: sure

[12:54] Simon Linden: it helps us as well

[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: those two concerns were all I have atm, the exp setup seems pretty solid other than those issue

[12:54] Kriss (krisshall): like a *, block everything

[12:54] Martin RJ (martinrj): dolphin: flying using the LL-viewer's (and any other tpv) adminmode should be prevented in experience regions

[12:55] Dolphin Linden: that would definitely have to be up to the region/experience

[12:55] Qie Niangao: Oh, no, not all experience regions Martin.

[12:55] Jenna Felton: prevent-able, not prevented :)

[12:55] Dolphin Linden: indeed

[12:55] Martin RJ (martinrj): yes right Jenna, preventable

[12:56] Rex Cronon: it could happen to land by mistake in a bdsm experience. u could be force into some very bad position. lol

[12:56] Jenna Felton: because i was thinking about an experience where you become one of birds when you come there

[12:56] Jenna Felton: which is actually not so easy toimplement, so when someone likes the idea, can have it

[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, active RLV and go region hopping, you'll run into just as much fun accidentally, lol

[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: *activate

[12:57] Chucking Fatlag (whirly.fizzle): RLV plus open relay. Fun times ;)

[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: kinds of weird how Exp is the polar opposite of RLV, lol

[12:57] Qie Niangao: There ya go: a Region option to set "MUST fly"

[12:57] Rex Cronon: at this time u can't be forced but with experiences ...

[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: Exp = allowances, RLV = restirctons

[12:57] Jenna Felton: hehe

[12:58] Rex Cronon: imagine somebody makes some lolita games. u really don't want to get involved in that. it has legal implications in rl

[12:59] Chucking Fatlag (whirly.fizzle): I don't think that exp would last long before it was banhammered Rex

[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, theres legal implications with the stuff rezzed by throwaway accts in teh Linden sb's, heh

[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: or the thousands of illeagl distro'd mesh objects on teh grid

[12:59] Theresa Tennyson: LL can pull experience keys, Rex.

[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: ^

[13:00] Chucking Fatlag (whirly.fizzle): Kill switch - which is a great thing

[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: and teh crator can halt it's operation too

[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: *creator

[13:00] Kriss (krisshall): you need to be careful with ability or control, cos if you *can* control it, you admit some responsibility and/or liability

[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: which imo, is a good security backup

[13:00] Kriss (krisshall): or if you show you can, but if you don't, then you maybe safer

[13:00] Simon Linden: I have to run to another meeting ... thanks everyone for coming today and the great discussion

[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: holy crap meeting is already over, heh

[13:00] Qie Niangao: Thanks Simon

[13:00] Rex Cronon: tc simon

[13:00] Martin RJ (martinrj): goodbye Lindens

[13:00] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks Simon and Dolphin.

[13:01] Kriss (krisshall): yes

[13:01] Chucking Fatlag (whirly.fizzle): Thanks Lindens

[13:01] MB Robonaught: bye all thanks for the meeting °?°

[13:01] Kriss (krisshall): take care

[13:01] Lucia Nightfire: arigatou



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